Less eyestrain from a more realistic air-ground contrast ratio

[hitech]

Chilli I really have no idea what your 6 images are. Not trying to be a pain, but are they all the same times, which ones were adjusted? Would it be to difficult to just put text on the image itself?

There will NOT be a brightness /contrast setting. But as I said before, it is a simple matter to adjust sky colors, but it seems no one has taken the time to set day and dusk settings what they would prefer as the OP asked for a simple brightness change between sky and ground.

HiTech

[Chilli]

Each split screen is labeled below the split screen.  The bottom image, was taken after adjustment with contrast and brightness.  The AH skyCOLOR[dusk] 00D4B4A2 was default for Baltic.  The time of both screen images was the same 06:00.  The middle image from the former post was Deacon's last image that I included for comparison.  It also helps to show the limitation of gamma adjustment alone.

I totally support your decision not to include contrast or brightness.  Perhaps there might be some other development in the future that facilitates a wider range of contrast, even if it were included in the video settings menu, and tied directly to the video card / monitor settings. 

Besides that the best that I could hope for would be a global increase in objects' material file that corresponds to the luminosity and shiny effects.  Much like Deacon likes his terrain lighter, I like for my objects to step out from the screen.  The addition of the bump map has gone a great deal in that direction, but in all of my screen shot and films, the addition of contrast produces the most life like images. (Take a look at how much more 3 dimensional the headlamp covers look in the previous comparison post with Deacon's image).

*Also please note that since I have both my monitor and desktop color settings boosted to provide some of the contrast and saturation that I see, your image will most likely show slightly less of what I am describing (if you are using default settings or anything other than identical settings from my HP LCD screen, and GeForce210 video card).

HiTech, oh wise one    Color Sky [Dusk] = 00D4B4A2 (I presume this is the default for Baltic terrain).  Otherwise we have no actual comparison due to the individual desktop settings (as discussed by Bustr and Wraith).  Notice I purposely adjusted time of day to Dusk to show the difficulties in adjustment in gamma alone.*  The following Screenshots hopefully will be self explanatory with labels placed below.

Normal Gamma ~1.0*                                             Increased Gamma ~1.4*

Normal Gamma After Contrast and Brightness      Increased Gamma After Contrast and Brightness

[The Fugitive]

Chilli I really have no idea what your 6 images are. Not trying to be a pain, but are they all the same times, which ones were adjusted? Would it be to difficult to just put text on the image itself?

There will NOT be a brightness /contrast setting. But as I said before, it is a simple matter to adjust sky colors, but it seems no one has taken the time to set day and dusk settings what they would prefer as the OP asked for a simple brightness change between sky and ground.

HiTech

I think Chilli is only showing what anyone can do by adjusting their own brightness, contrast, and the in-game gamma settings to achieve a better contrast. The left side showing a normal setting, the right side showing the same view after tweaking his monitors setting.

I think the OPs main problem is running an older system. I have just upgraded and while my older system (4 years old) still played the game with most of the eye candy on, my old eyes had a hard time picking out low flying planes against the terrain. With my new system I run every bit of eye candy and a bit of AA as well and can pick out those same low flyers much easier.

[bustr]

It's clear and bright over SF Bay outside my living room window. This is my best duplication of the sky blue I see with my eyes. And the best overall average bright I can get on the ndisles map at noon. No photo shopping, simply a conversion from BMP to GIF. This is what I see in the game as of now, and the best I can adjust for my eyes.

My wife majored in art and taught art for some years. She says your sky value is too low in red. Green and blue don't contrast well unless there is a slight purple caused by an increase in the red value. I've also reduced my haze issue by being able to keep the gamma lower at 1.6 rather than 1.8-1.9. The increase in red seems to have a side benifit of upping the overall perception of brightness. The red value for ndisles was 99, I increased it to 107.

SkyColor[Day]: 00FF8B69

NDisles 12:00 noon.

[TDeacon]

<snip>I think the OPs main problem is running an older system. <snip>

Sorry Fugitive, but it's *not* due to an "older system".  As I said previously, I have access to several different machines, with both CRT and LCD screens, and one of them is only several years old, running Windows 7.  The issue is there on all of them.  Remember, however, what constitutes "eyestrain" for one person may not do so for another.  The resolution of this all depends on how hard it is for HTC to give us a player-adustable sky *or* a  player-adjustable ground brightness setting.  

MH

[TDeacon]

Chilli I really have no idea what your 6 images are. Not trying to be a pain, but are they all the same times, which ones were adjusted? Would it be to difficult to just put text on the image itself?

There will NOT be a brightness /contrast setting. But as I said before, it is a simple matter to adjust sky colors, but it seems no one has taken the time to set day and dusk settings what they would prefer as the OP asked for a simple brightness change between sky and ground.

HiTech

HiTech; I posted the OP.  Unfortunately, I am currently suffering equipment issues, which are being dealt with.  Would you be willing to put this on hold for a couple of weeks, until I can properly support my request graphically (as my temporary graphics card does not permit me to run the game properly), and answer your question about the sky color???  I do respect the opinions of the other posters, but by in large, they are not talking about the same issue as that covered by my OP, and this kind of blurs things.  

Thanks in advance,
MH

[save]

I must tell you about those airborne guys, trying to blow our tanks up during night-time on a snowy northern Sweden during a drill in early -80s:

We knew they where coming after us so we moved around within our perimeter quite a lot, giving air recognizance a whole lot harder to find my platoon of 4 tank / 2 tents.
Our light tanks (17 tons IKV91) where dug in by driving the tanks into the 1.5 meter deep snow showing only half of the tank, in the shade of the wood.

We also camouflaged the tank by hitting the high threes light so snow fell down on the already white and green camouflage.
In front of us we had a field, and the road we where supposed to defend with an ambush  , about 600 meters away.
We also did some fake positions, piled up snow with branches sticking out horizontally out of the piles of snow, and made lots of small tracks with a tank to make the impression the position was the real thing.

During the night we heard some explosion, and machine gun fire less than 500 away, and then silence. We moved to our tanks, waiting inside for them to come to us.
Well they did not.

The blue-yellow officers ( combat judges ) came to us in the morning with a mile on their faces:
Our airborne (enemy) guys attacked and claimed to have killed a tank position with all tanks in it (!).

Must have been a delight to see these guy attack some piles of snow, and machine-gunning everywhere there  
Its me in commanders cupola, during a drill in early -80s in picture below

[bustr]

TDeacon,

I understand your position. Multiple machines and monitors. Many different visual presentations of the same sky and ground. You have due to your personal issues with your eyes a need for certain settings to reduce eye strain. I did ask earlier for additional sliders to control either (bright) and (contrast) or HEU for water, ground and sky. Some time back I traded my more expensive LG graphics monitor to my wife for her Samsung becasue it has a "Gaming" response setting and showed the game better during action.

Would it have been simpler TDeacon for you to call HTC and argue in person with Hitech what your physical needs are? Taking the high road I will venture your eyes are an issue regardless of the PC you are at. But, so many pages into this you mention the need for additional sliders becasue you play the game from several PC. How then can your audience join your side in asking Hitech for your wish? So then the suggestion that calling Hitech in person would have been a better strategy.

I've never seen Hitech succumb to incramental "nudging" by a player after responding with a definative "NOT". The sliders Hitech refuses to place in the game would probably benifit those with superior systems along the lines of why he won't put in rear view mirrors. Chances are by solving your eye strain issue exactly the way you want, some 13 year old would over night become the long range GV sniper king of the game becasue his parents over indulge him with their credit card when it comes to his tech wishes.

Thus another whine post due to unintended consiqueces.

Hitech's response on this page.
--------------------------------------
From Hitech:

There will NOT be a brightness /contrast setting. But as I said before, it is a simple matter to adjust sky colors, but it seems no one has taken the time to set day and dusk settings what they would prefer as the OP asked for a simple brightness change between sky and ground.

HiTech

[Chilli]

Hey Bustr,

I read HiTech's post and decided that it was not directed at TDeacon's request, mainly because the OP request was NOT for contrast or brightness.  HiTech just wanted to clarify from TDeacon what "customized" sky color works best for him. 

I may have added to the confusion (probably so -- and wasn't my intent to hijack his thread, but it is so very close to my wish).  I brought up the discussion that a "deeper" contrast and a "brighter" adjustment to objects (more specifically, aircraft and vehicles) provides less eyestrain and a more realistic appearance.

The in game difference for situation awareness, would improve, but not to any greater advantage than it currently presents.  In comparison, consider the differences between someone flying with a mouse, or loosely calibrated joystick and someone flying with the best CH or other benchmark equipment.  Then add an exquisite set of rudder pedals and we have to conclude that the playing field is never going to be level.

I cannot come anywhere close to any ideal viewing adjustments use of gamma alone.  Based on the "washed out" screenshots that TDeacon posted, HiTech and I can only guess that either it is his preference OR his desktop settings are so much different from ours, we have no clue as to what it is the TDeacon actually sees on his screen.

I have an experiment that I will be conducting, although I am no Lusche, I am hoping that I might be able to post some work around results to help us with visual challenges and eyestrain issues. 

I wish to carry that discussion to the Help and Training Forum in this thread http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,338181.0.html Your input will be greatly valued in that thread.  Thank you for all of your comments in advance.

[hitech]

Also, I still don't have the sky color that TDeacon would prefer.

Screens shots don't do me much good, because I need to see the number in game.

HiTech

[ImADot]

Also, I still don't have the sky color that TDeacon would prefer.

Screens shots don't do me much good, because I need to see the number in game.

HiTech

I think I've probably tweaked some of the colors since these posts, but this might be a good starting point:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,324201.0.html

[TDeacon]

Also, I still don't have the sky color that TDeacon would prefer.
Screens shots don't do me much good, because I need to see the number in game.

HiTech

HiTech; please put this issue on hold for a couple of weeks, and I can get you that number.

My main graphics card died the day after I started this thread, and the replacement won't run the game.  I am, in parallel, building a complete new PC, and investigating ways to obtain a used equivalent to the 9800XT I was using on my old PC.  In a couple of weeks, one or the other of these 2 parallel efforts will allow me to run AH again, and answer your question.  

MH