Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Chalenge on August 18, 2012, 03:25:01 AM
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The slipper tanks we have are 36 gallons, yet the Spitfire Mk VIII used 30, 90, and 170 and the Mk IX used 30, 45, and 90 gallon tanks with the added potential for a 50 gallon center line tank (like those on our Typhoon)?
I wish it were so here in AH! :aok
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The Typhoon is hardly the picture of fuel economy lol. Even with 100% fuel and drop tanks it still only has the range of a P-51D with a bit over a quarter tank of fuel. But I might use the Spitfires more if the had more fuel capability as long as it is a historical fuel load. Other wise HTC would not let it in the game and correctly so.
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I'll have to check my references when I get home, but was the 90 gallon a ferry tank? If so it wasn't used in combat.
The Spitfire Mk VIII actually has decent range in AH, particularly with a slipper tank. One of the reasons it is my preferred Spitfire.
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I dont get your wish :cry
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Spit VIII data
(http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit8adsaussie.jpg)
(http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit8performance-n.jpg)
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No I dont believe they were ferry tanks. I have them listed as slipper tanks. The VIII was used as an export fighter by countries like Australia that then used them over great expanses of water.
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Out of curiosity why more fuel? the spitfire 8 can already fly forever on 1/2 a tank and the current slipper tank? more than once I got over 1 hr when I would play late at night put it on autopilot reduced throttle and I would wake up on the other side of the map.
semp
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No it cannot fly forever on 1/2 tank and a slipper tank. Ridiculous!
The point is that the 36 gallon tank never existed (like the Arado cannons) and should be replaced with something that did exist and that was used.
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How many US gallons is 30 Imperial gallons?
It is 36.0285 US gallons.
The slipper tank in AH is correct for the 30 gallon tank.
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If that is true then why do we have only the smallest tank available when the maps in AH come in small and extra-large only?
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If that is true then why do we have only the smallest tank available when the maps in AH come in small and extra-large only?
That I cannot answer, just that the one we have is not a fantasy.
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No it cannot fly forever on 1/2 tank and a slipper tank. Ridiculous!
The point is that the 36 gallon tank never existed (like the Arado cannons) and should be replaced with something that did exist and that was used.
1 hr of flight in a spit8 is really forever.
semp
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I fly a Spit XVI full internal with a slipper and easily get 45 minutes of flight time. How much more do you need?
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Well, the average fighter sortie length in Late War has been increasing over the past few years, so the call for bigger drop tanks does not surprise me :noid
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If that is true then why do we have only the smallest tank available when the maps in AH come in small and extra-large only?
No 250kg bombs on the 190F's wings, no DT on the 109E, no bomb on the 109F, we only recently got the rockets and DT's on the Typhoon.
Theres probably a TON of stuff we don't have, but that would be realistic.
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You are ignoring this user.
You dont even play AH. :noid
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You dont even play AH. :noid
And? That doesn't mean I can't answer your dumb-azz questions.
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Obviously a rule #4 violation from someone that only trolls the boards and never plays AH. :rolleyes:
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And? That doesn't mean I can't answer your dumb-azz questions.
tank-ace the fact that you havent played in a while indicates that you dont know the changes that have taken place lately. you dont get it just by playing off-line missions. a lot of the wishes you have posted are really cool if you play off line but in the game with 400 players wanting to kill ya then it's a different game.
semp
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tank-ace the fact that you havent played in a while indicates that you dont know the changes that have taken place lately. you dont get it just by playing off-line missions. a lot of the wishes you have posted are really cool if you play off line but in the game with 400 players wanting to kill ya then it's a different game.
semp
Again, not having played online recently doesn't prevent me from intelligently answering stupid questions.
"Why do we not have X for plane Y?!?!?"
We're also missing A for plane B, and C for plane D. Y isn't being singled out, they just didn't get around to adding X yet.
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Again, not having played online recently doesn't prevent me from intelegently answering stupid questions.
You need to know how to spell "intelligently" in order to use it unless your primary language is something other than english.
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No, I need to stop expecting perfect results from the galaxy S3's smaller screen and imperfect touch screen.
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There are also some balance issues to consider. Spitfires, La-7s, Yaks and Bf109s, to be perfectly honest, are superior dogfighters because as interceptors they sacrifice endurance (range, ammo) for performance, mostly climb/acceleration. This makes them superior at air-to-air combat. If you give any of them large drop tanks they suddenly gain the advantage of endurance as well and that can make them overly effective in game terms.
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There are also some balance issues to consider. Spitfires, La-7s, Yaks and Bf109s, to be perfectly honest, are superior dogfighters because as interceptors they sacrifice endurance (range, ammo) for performance, mostly climb/acceleration. This makes them superior at air-to-air combat. If you give any of them large drop tanks they suddenly gain the advantage of endurance as well and that can make them overly effective in game terms.
Absolute rubbish! There is no such thing as a double-superior fighter in Aces High and that would be the only 'overly effective' change that should be avoided. The only thing drop tanks changes is range and range alone can only change where on the map combat takes place in comparison to where takeoff took place. The overall effectiveness of Spitfires in AH would remain unchanged.
"Fear me. I have fuel." Give me a break! :rolleyes:
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Absolute rubbish! There is no such thing as a double-superior fighter in Aces High and that would be the only 'overly effective' change that should be avoided. The only thing drop tanks changes is range and range alone can only change where on the map combat takes place in comparison to where takeoff took place. The overall effectiveness of Spitfires in AH would remain unchanged.
"Fear me. I have fuel." Give me a break! :rolleyes:
Regardless of whether you agree or not, it is clear, based on the fuel consumption multiplier, that HTC wanted a distinction between the short ranged interceptors and the long ranged fighters. A Spitfire or Bf109 can easily participate in an attack against a neighboring field and be able to return. With drop tanks and fuel management they can even go to a base behind enemy lines and return, but that is pretty much it if they want to be able to return. Long range fighters like the Ki-84, P-51, Mosquito and Ta152 can escort or range far into enemy territory and still be able to return home.
It is not that there is a double-superior fighter so much as fighters that are better suited to certain tasks. If you are scrambling to defend against an incoming raid, which of the following fighters are the best choices, Bf109G-14, Bf110G-2, Mosquito Mk VI, P-47D-40, P-51B and Spitfire Mk VIII? While you could use any of them, the superior climb/acceleration of the Bf109G-14 and Spitfire Mk VIII are going to give you a better chance of success in that circumstance.
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Again, not having played online recently doesn't prevent me from intelligently answering stupid questions.
"Why do we not have X for plane Y?!?!?"
We're also missing A for plane B, and C for plane D. Y isn't being singled out, they just didn't get around to adding X yet.
see that's the thing, we you say "we" are missing x or y plane. you arent missing x or y plane. you are missing all of them.
semp
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No I dont believe they were ferry tanks. I have them listed as slipper tanks. The VIII was used as an export fighter by countries like Australia that then used them over great expanses of water.
The 170 gallon tank was specifically a ferry tank and was only really used to test some runs from England direct to Malta. No guns, additional oil. Not a combat load.
The 30 gallon slipper was standard on the Griffon birds starting with the XII. The XII also carried a 50 gallon torpedo shaped tank and at the very end of it's career carried a 90 gallon tank when escorting RAF bombers in daylight in August 45. The 45 gallon slipper can be seen on Spit XVI photos on the continent.
I seem to recall the discussion happening when the Spits were going to be introduced and the consensus was the 30 gallon tank was the one they carried the majority of the time and made the most sense for MA use. Obviously the decision isn't mind to make, but adding the 45 and 90 seems like overkill just to add loiter time.
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Ah the usual noise!
The modifier will affect bigger tanks the same way it has the smaller ones. If every aircraft had the tanks they actually flew with then it would not make the huge difference you fear so much.
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Ah the usual noise!
The modifier will affect bigger tanks the same way it has the smaller ones. If every aircraft had the tanks they actually flew with then it would not make the huge difference you fear so much.
Just passing on the last discussion. If that's the usual noise so be it. The decision isn't in my hands. As for fearing anything in a cartoon flight sim, that's just silly.
Why do you feel the need to have a 170 gallon overload ferry tank for a Spit in AH?
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Ah the usual noise!
The modifier will affect bigger tanks the same way it has the smaller ones. If every aircraft had the tanks they actually flew with then it would not make the huge difference you fear so much.
Not true. Give the Spitfire the larger tanks and it can now escort bombers reasonably well. Give the P-51D its larger tanks and nobody will use them because nobody does six hour fighter sorties in AH. The larger tanks only help if the useful range is actually extended.
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see that's the thing, we you say "we" are missing x or y plane. you arent missing x or y plane. you are missing all of them.
semp
"we" as in the AH community. If you're going to start getting on my case for my use of the word "we", then I'm going to start saying that I am missing thing that haven't been added yet, or that it would be cool if I could use this in the game, and add you to the ignore list.
Honestly, you're being stupid about this. Post about something that is relvent to the topic, and is at least SLIGHTLY important, and quit being a dick.
Challenge, where overall range comes in to play is that planes like the P-51 can use WEP for climb out, and not shoot themselves in the foot as far as loiter time goes.
With a 109K, you burn 10 minutes of WEP in climb out and transit, and your loiter time has dropped noticably.
My typical loadout on the 109K was 75% fuel and a DT. Even with that, I couldn't stick with the fight as long as P-51's, or Ki-84's. Why? Cause I had to drop the drop tank, or kill my preformance.
@ Karnak: You can sorta use the 109's as escorts, even long-range, you just gotta be REALLY smart about it. I've done strat raid escorts, although I plotted it out so I could land on a CV and cut my return trip by over half its length. Just drop the throttle till you're doing 300ish level, so you can keep up with the bombers.
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Again... both Karnak and Guppy are passing comments on topics they do not take part in and cannot speak from experience. Now Karnak is even talking in circles.
Why not just start your own wish and request a hard ceiling of 15k for everyone?
Who convinced the tank guy that WEP is for climbing anyway? :lol
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Who convinced the tank guy that WEP is for climbing anyway? :lol
It's actually a good idea and if you're not doing it you're just putting yourself at a disadvantage. In case you didn't know WEP recharges and as long as water temps don't go into the red zone recovery is relatively quick.
Challenge, where overall range comes in to play is that planes like the P-51 can use WEP for climb out, and not shoot themselves in the foot as far as loiter time goes.
With a 109K, you burn 10 minutes of WEP in climb out and transit, and your loiter time has dropped noticably.
My typical loadout on the 109K was 75% fuel and a DT. Even with that, I couldn't stick with the fight as long as P-51's, or Ki-84's. Why? Cause I had to drop the drop tank, or kill my preformance.
Nonsense. In the Spits I WEP for the first 7.5K from field alt and in any German plane including the K4 I WEP for the first 10K from field alt (2-3 minutes... if you're WEPing for 10 minutes on climbout that's just stupid. Both climbouts mentioned are on auto climb). In either one I still get 45 minutes without managing throttle mich. In the Spits I'm 100% internal with a slipper and in the K4 100% clean. Managing throttle once at alt can get you an hour or more.
With judicious throttle management I can fly a 163 2-3 sectors, get in a fight and RTB to my starting base. The point is any plane in AH can fly forever. Exceptions might be the LA's, the Ratta and the Spit V before the sipper was added... and the 163.
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"we" as in the AH community. If you're going to start getting on my case for my use of the word "we", then I'm going to start saying that I am missing thing that haven't been added yet, or that it would be cool if I could use this in the game, and add you to the ignore list.
Honestly, you're being stupid about this. Post about something that is relvent to the topic, and is at least SLIGHTLY important, and quit being a dick.
Challenge, where overall range comes in to play is that planes like the P-51 can use WEP for climb out, and not shoot themselves in the foot as far as loiter time goes.
With a 109K, you burn 10 minutes of WEP in climb out and transit, and your loiter time has dropped noticably.
My typical loadout on the 109K was 75% fuel and a DT. Even with that, I couldn't stick with the fight as long as P-51's, or Ki-84's. Why? Cause I had to drop the drop tank, or kill my preformance.
@ Karnak: You can sorta use the 109's as escorts, even long-range, you just gotta be REALLY smart about it. I've done strat raid escorts, although I plotted it out so I could land on a CV and cut my return trip by over half its length. Just drop the throttle till you're doing 300ish level, so you can keep up with the bombers.
see that's the point you havent played in a long time so you dont really know how the game has changed in the arenas other than what you hear here on the bb. so when you give an opinion about something that you think will affect the game, well you really dont have an informed opinion since you dont really play the game. btw you are welcome to add me to your ignore list since i am adding you to mine. not trying to be a dick but seeing pictures of the game is not the same as playing the game.
semp
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maybe only the spit14 could get a larger drop tank, so we can actually use it at its best altitude :noid
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It's actually a good idea and if you're not doing it you're just putting yourself at a disadvantage. In case you didn't know WEP recharges and as long as water temps don't go into the red zone recovery is relatively quick.
Yes I think I realized that WEP returns after the engine cools a LONG time ago.
Using WEP on the climbout puts you at the disadvantage which is where you went wrong in your thinking. If you get bounced when your engine is hot and the enemy is nice and cool... you are toast. Using WEP in the P-51 doesnt give you enough of an increase in rate of climb to make it worth your while. Using WEP also increases your fuel burn rate except in some aircraft like the P-47.
I guarantee thats not the only mistake you are making.
@Noir: Just what alt are you talking about? The 14 can get to about 37k without trouble and even though it will go higher I sincerely doubt you have need for more altitude. A November model or 152 would be better for anything higher.
The problem I see in the LW more often than not is that any serious defense is usually met with bypassing to an undefended field. Just tonight we fought a concentrated defense against superior odds and despite some losses the enemy was dealt loss after loss and never could do enough damage to pose a threat. So they went to a base and closed it with CV guns and then capped and vulched. We were upping Spit 1s and Hurr 1s and still they refused to engage except with superior odds and lots of altitude advantage.
And that is why I fly the P-51 and that is why we need more fuel. So we can run their scared sissy butts down!
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maybe only the spit14 could get a larger drop tank, so we can actually use it at its best altitude :noid
:aok :aok
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Again... both Karnak and Guppy are passing comments on topics they do not take part in and cannot speak from experience. Now Karnak is even talking in circles.
Why not just start your own wish and request a hard ceiling of 15k for everyone?
Who convinced the tank guy that WEP is for climbing anyway? :lol
Did you even read what I wrote? If so your response makes no sense.
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The Spit14 needs the larger slipper tank, without it, it isn't worth the price in perks. The damn thing has horrible flying characteristics as is. :joystick: :old:
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I still don't know why British Merlins have to wait 10 minutes to get a full five minutes of WEP back and American Merlins only have to wait 5 minutes to get 5 minutes of WEP back. Makes using WEP for climb out a highly iffy thing.
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you're kidding :huh
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you're kidding :huh
Nope.
IIRC the German engines have 10 minutes of WEP that recharges fully in 5 minutes.
It does put a fairly big ding in the Spitfire Mk XIV and Mosquito Mk VI WEP monsters.
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wow I never knew that, thats dreadful. thought it was just the power limits that were biased to US aircraft in some cases.
I can explain why though - the US aircraft limits are based on US manuals and the Brit limits on Brit manuals. generally the Brits were way more conservative on limits for exactly the same engines than the US. dig out the manuals for the aircraft used by both USAAF/USN and RAF/FAA and you'll see what I mean.
still doesnt explain The Case of the Mysterious Disappearance of the Lancaster's WEP though :uhoh
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Again... both Karnak and Guppy are passing comments on topics they do not take part in and cannot speak from experience. Now Karnak is even talking in circles.
Why not just start your own wish and request a hard ceiling of 15k for everyone?
Who convinced the tank guy that WEP is for climbing anyway? :lol
I sure wish you weren't so defensive when I reply. You seem to assume I'm arguing with you even when I'm not. Can you please explain what this is that I can't speak to from experience in this game?
You didn't answer my question btw. Are you suggesting the 170 gallon ferry tank should be available in AH?
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btw I havent seen many manuals that allow full WEP climbing (low airspeed = no cooling).
edit: I wonder how many players fly their main rides "by the book"?
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wow I never knew that, thats dreadful. thought it was just the power limits that were biased to US aircraft in some cases.
I can explain why though - the US aircraft limits are based on US manuals and the Brit limits on Brit manuals. generally the Brits were way more conservative on limits for exactly the same engines than the US. dig out the manuals for the aircraft used by both USAAF/USN and RAF/FAA and you'll see what I mean.
still doesnt explain The Case of the Mysterious Disappearance of the Lancaster's WEP though :uhoh
Not sure how that translates into AH though. I have never seen "+18lbs boost limit 5 minutes, after waiting 10 minutes a further 5 minutes is allowed." All I have seen, in both US and RAF handbooks is a 5 minute per flight limit.
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*more of semp's BS*
Well, you see, the problem with your logic is that I wasn't giving an opinion based on in-game experience. I was stating fact.
Fact: we only have one size DT for the spitfires. Is that a problem? Considering we're missing a whole bunch of stuff for a whole bunch of aircraft, not really. Fact: spitfire has its place, and the lack of a larger DT isn't harming it. Source: spitfire usage over the previous 12 months. Clearly the LW and MW variants aren't hanger queens.
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Using WEP on the climbout puts you at the disadvantage which is where you went wrong in your thinking. If you get bounced when your engine is hot and the enemy is nice and cool... you are toast. Using WEP in the P-51 doesnt give you enough of an increase in rate of climb to make it worth your while. Using WEP also increases your fuel burn rate except in some aircraft like the P-47.
I guarantee thats not the only mistake you are making.
I already stated the ranges at which I use WEP on climbout. In both planes I mentioned (and neither of those included the P-51 or P-47) my WEP use amounts to 2-3 minutes. That leaves me 2-3 additional minutes in the Spit and 7-8 minutes in the K4 assuming I'm engaged just before I'm about to turn WEP off. If not it's recharged in only a few minutes. How many several minute fights do you have in the MA? I'm hardly defensless if I get bounced and in fact am in a much better position to bounce an emeny than I'd be if I didn't use WEP.
So in the end I'm at alt and gaining speed while you're still climbing out saving your WEP for that ten minute fight you'll never see and I guarantee that's not the only mistake you're making.
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The fights I am in either go just a few seconds or stretch out to over ten minutes. My mistakes are few and far between and you cant say that. :aok
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The fights I am in either go just a few seconds or stretch out to over ten minutes. My mistakes are few and far between and you cant say that. :aok
How do you know what I can or can't say?
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Lets just say anytime I die 100 times in a single tour is when I stop talking like that. Mmmm-kay? :)
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Lets just say anytime I die 100 times in a single tour is when I stop talking like that. Mmmm-kay? :)
I guess I don't play at 37K avoiding combat. Mmmm-kay?
BTW, I went back through a year of my stats. I've had over 100 deaths once in that time and most were in GV's (91) which is totally irrelevent to this conversation. Most camps I don't even get 100 sorties in much less deaths. I also looked at your stats. You must be a very timid pilot.
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And yet I still kill at a faster rate then you do. Hmmm.... feeling timid are you? :devil
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this is a wishlist thread not "My dads better than yours" thread
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And yet I still kill at a faster rate then you do. Hmmm.... feeling timid are you? :devil
Not by much. I always fly alone and usually engage multiple cons. That's hardly timid but it does mean I get shot down a fair amount. I envision you as a pick and runstang which is the definition of timidity.
Clearly you didn't want comments on your post to continue to attack people with ideas you oppose. So why post in a public forum?
Oh... BTW... DA? I'll guess in advance the answer is no.
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And yet I still kill at a faster rate then you do. Hmmm.... feeling timid are you? :devil
LOL! coming from you, that is rich :lol 3.4 kph? you're bragging about what now? :headscratch: here's how it is: you fly at 30K (to save fuel of course), you adhere strictly to the BnZ, and you drop the nose and run like hell at the first sign of trouble.
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Irishone it has been years since you knew anything so butt out. Just so happens nearly every sortie is escort duty. I sometimes go looking for bombers at strats or CVs. 30k missions are for long range escort to enemy strats and HQ... not that I expect you to know anything about that. Its not bragging its comparing ratios with a dweeb that climbs with wep.
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bile
fixed
So, how about them Spitfires?
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Not by much. I always fly alone and usually engage multiple cons. That's hardly timid but it does mean I get shot down a fair amount. I envision you as a pick and runstang which is the definition of timidity.
Clearly you didn't want comments on your post to continue to attack people with ideas you oppose. So why post in a public forum?
Oh... BTW... DA? I'll guess in advance the answer is no.
I flew Spit 16 today just to see if the rumors are true. 8 kills in less than 20 mins. Dont waste my time.
Clearly you dont make much sense so why keep replying?
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I flew Spit 16 today just to see if the rumors are true. 8 kills in less than 20 mins. Dont waste my time.
Clearly you dont make much sense so why keep replying?
Because I like to waste the time of idiots like you.
DA? I thought not hot shot. It's because you're afraid to find your steller stats mean nothing when it's time to perform. Timidity at it's finest. :aok
BTW, those 8 kills were in 3, 4, 5, 10 or more on ones? Wow! You're my FPH! My kills do come that way so stop wasting my time.
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Shine, Chalenge, shine again! :aok :aok :aok :banana:
I havent died in the last couple tours, ergo im better than you, right? Mmmm-kay? Little cocky boy, lmao.
Once i upped a G6. Got 10 kills in 17 minutes, all on the deck withouth BnZing, mostly on Spits and Corsairs. Yet show me where i used it to brag down a respected player. lol
Cause the ones who are concrete-sitting in tiger2s or running in ponies after a 30k BnZ then refusing a fair man-to-man fight, they fluffingly have no right to judge anyone or talk trash on anyone.
Respect. Walk.
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Because I like to waste the time of idiots like you.
DA? I thought not hot shot. It's because you're afraid to find your steller stats mean nothing when it's time to perform. Timidity at it's finest. :aok
BTW, those 8 kills were in 3, 4, 5, 10 or more on ones? Wow! You're my FPH! My kills do come that way so stop wasting my time.
Even odds hotshot. Save the DA for your crybaby friends. I hear Manawar is looking...
@Debrody: nothing will ever make you cool so give up now. :rolleyes:
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@Hitech: With all the responses and attention this thread got (and from the ones it got attention from) you know it has to be a good idea. :devil
I mean they always are against the ideas that bring in customers! :rolleyes:
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:rofl
oh boy, you internet tough boy...
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Still nothing relevent to say Debrody? Let me savor the flavor of your attempt to insult me.
Oh... it appears you dont fly AH anymore? What happened? Mommy and daddy said no more? :devil
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The secret is out!! Chalenege wants to fly at 20k in a spit for a longer time!
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I flew a spit 8 at 38,000 feet today and had 56 minutes of fuel left.
As I waited for the 163 so I could drag it between the mountains and away from airfields, a bolt of lightning struck nearby and I wasn't able to get back in time so I apologize to whoever it was and hope you made it back.
I did notice that the puffy ack did not fire on me.
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Save the DA for your crybaby friends.
I don't have crybaby friends.
So why are you afraid to DA if you're so damn good? Oh that's right... you're not.
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:lol
Shine, baby, shine :banana:
Nope boi, im spending money what i have earned with my two hands. :aok
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I say Spits with more fuel is a great idea :D
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So, how about them Spitfires?
Why bring spitfires intop this pursefight?
(http://gifsforum.com/images/image/this%20thread%20delivers/preview/this%20thread%20delivers.jpg)
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I knew it... there are more 12 yr olds in this thread than there are bugs in the peruvian jungle! :banana:
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Thank you for that info. sir.
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I knew it... there are more 12 yr olds in this thread than there are bugs in the peruvian jungle! :banana:
Vause balls! I call BS.
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Spits and Peruvian jungle bugs are for girls.
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I knew it... there are more 12 yr olds in this thread than there are bugs in the peruvian jungle! :banana:
As someone without a horse in this race(I rarely up a spit) I can objectivly say you fit right in with the rest the thread :aok
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If they get bigger drop tanks, they better get some new enys.
Spit 8 = 5
Spit 9 = 10-15
Just my opinion on the matter.
Oh and my k/h is ubber compared to yours and I do fly high alt quite a bit in the 152
:salute
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If they get bigger drop tanks, they better get some new enys.
Spit 8 = 5
Spit 9 = 10-15
Just my opinion on the matter.
Oh and my k/h is ubber compared to yours and I do fly high alt quite a bit in the 152
:salute
They were ferry tanks (non-combat) not combat tanks Juzunkle. Ain't gonna happen... :aok And the 8 poons allllllllllll :x
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They were ferry tanks (non-combat) not combat tanks Juzunkle. Ain't gonna happen... :aok And the 8 poons allllllllllll :x
Ah...well carry on flaming Chalenge then....
:salute