Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: bongboy1 on September 04, 2012, 04:04:42 AM
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ince we're having all these changes in the game when it comes to resupplying. I thought it be a good time to bring up the idea of being able to resupply cv fleets, and what better plane can you think of for a role like that besides the PBY Catalina! :banana: It'd be tons of fun! Also add some more options to aircraft we can fly out of ports. Or even a pt boat with supplies from a pt spawn n drive out to cv. So, what do you guys think?
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+1 to the catalina :aok
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Short Sunderland
Bit faster, with far better defensive fire. bomb load was a little lower. very hard to kill birds by all accounts.
(http://mlkshk.com/r/A3A5)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di-tShoowGo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-bSWydtoy0&feature=related
Kawanishi H8K
Super quick compaired to the Cat, and packing 5 x 20mm Type 99 cannons backed up by another 5 x 7.7mm Type 97 machine guns. Bomb load is lower at 2000.
(http://www.wwiivehicles.com/japan/aircraft/flying-boat/kawanishi-h8k-emily-flying-boat/kawanishi-h8k2-emily-flying-boat-05.png)
Both these would have a ok chance to work in the MA... the increased defensive fire power/speed would help them see use.
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Fish42,
The H8K2 could carry eight 250kg bombs, so its load is actually 4,400lbs.
Two torpedoes could also be carried.
EDIT:
The idea of flying boats significantly replenishing a CV task force is absurd.
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The idea of flying boats significantly replenishing a CV task force is absurd.
Don't forget acting like an AWACs aircraft.
ack-ack
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PBY Baby
lets fly those CATS
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Fish42,
The H8K2 could carry eight 250kg bombs, so its load is actually 4,400lbs.
Two torpedoes could also be carried.
Ah, well thats what I get for doing quick research late at night.
The idea of flying boats significantly replenishing a CV task force is absurd.
This I agree with you, my post was simply to point out that even if flyingboats where added, there are far better choices then cats... because I am sure, alot of people do not have a clue what else is out there. The cats are pretty famous, not the best.
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some sort of float plane docked at the Ports would be more believable than the storch bailing nonsense.
Doesn't have to be the Catalina but taking off and landing on the water would be worth the addition IMO.
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If someone wants to resupply the CV, at least be historical about it - they can drive an AE out to sea doing 9/11 knots then dock with the CV.
Assuming some random B-25H doesn't show up and disappoint you.
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Next you guys will suggest that we need to break out the construction equipment and repair an airfield ourselves instead of just flying in a C-47 and 'resupplying' it ...since we're trying to be realistic and all. Ahem. :D
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Next you guys will suggest that we need to break out the construction equipment and repair an airfield ourselves instead of just flying in a C-47 and 'resupplying' it ...since we're trying to be realistic and all. Ahem. :D
Hey now thats not a bad idea, we can improve on that and say you gotta work in the factory first, using perks to make the construction equiptment to Fly to an airfield to repair the runways.
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Ah, yeah, that sounds perfect! It'll push realism to new heights! :D
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Don't forget that the Cat can be land based aaaaaand sea based! :rock
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Don't forget that the Cat can be land based aaaaaand sea based! :rock
And? Add the PBY-5, H8K2 and Sunderland Mk V, two of which can only fly from water, into AH keeping the rest of the plane stable as is. What does that make the PBY-5?
The worst available choice for its in game role from either land or water.
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"During World War II, PBYs were used in anti-submarine warfare, patrol bombing, convoy escorts, search and rescue missions (especially air-sea rescue), and cargo transport." From wikipedia.... Note the "during ww2" part so it is historically accurate. Hopefully Hitech will read this n add the Catalina to the next vote list.
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"During World War II, PBYs were used in anti-submarine warfare, patrol bombing, convoy escorts, search and rescue missions (especially air-sea rescue), and cargo transport." From wikipedia.... Note the "during ww2" part so it is historically accurate. Hopefully Hitech will read this n add the Catalina to the next vote list.
Yes, it is. So are the H8K2 and Sunderland Mk V.
Of those three the only one that will see significant, ongoing usage is the H8K2 'Emily' as it is far, far superior to the other two. The PBY-5 will be a hangar queen and while I don't mind that I would like the first flying boat to not be a hangar queen and that means the first one should be the Emily.
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Let's just add the PBY for now and worry about uses later.
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Let's just add the PBY for now and worry about uses later.
Why? It is a lot of work for something that will not be used due to its nature of being a death trap.
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Why? It is a lot of work for something that will not be used due to its nature of being a death trap.
One mans death trap, could be a fleet based bomber.
PBY was had bombsites by the way, I believe they where norden.
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One mans death trap, could be a fleet based bomber.
PBY was had bombsites by the way, I believe they where norden.
So does the more capable TBM-3.
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PBY's can carry double the weight that a TBM can, more defensive fire power, or you can use this aircraft http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolidated_PB2Y_Coronado#Variants
But I'am not sure if you could use a Seaplane tender for it. The pby could be used as a ship to shore aircraft , maybe it could carry troops, drop bombs on town, mark targets with smoke , maybe if a base is under attack and the carrier is closer to it then any other airbase, someone could up a PBY and resup the base. Just saying.
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The TBM is more capable.
The PBY did not carry paratroops.
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For the role stated in the original wish, the PBY is more capable.
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Why? It is a lot of work for something that will not be used due to its nature of being a death trap.
let's see take a fighter heavy with bombs and rockets or take a blimp that most likely you wont be able to kill anything other than tanks and that's a big maybe.
semp
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+1
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carry troops as in land and let them get out, just saying
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+1 for flying boats :aok
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For the role stated in the original wish, the PBY is more capable.
How in ANYWAY does the pby out class the other 2 suggested flyingboats for the OP's wish?
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carry troops as in land and let them get out, just saying
It isn't a Storch. Using it to land in a rough field as a method of delivering troops, well, lets just say that gameplay ought not be built around such things.
I know many C-47 drivers do it in game already, but it isn't intended. With the PBY-5 it would need to be intended, so no. It would also remove the usefulness of the LVT.
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+1 for resupp the CV.
I'd even add that maybe you can only launch the PBY from a fleet or any base that has a PT spawn, thus launching it from water only. And it can only carry cargo for this purpose though the possibility of carrying a torp is not such a bad idea....
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It isn't a Storch. Using it to land in a rough field as a method of delivering troops, well, lets just say that gameplay ought not be built around such things.
I know many C-47 drivers do it in game already, but it isn't intended. With the PBY-5 it would need to be intended, so no. It would also remove the usefulness of the LVT.
There is another issue that people don't seem to realize, the PBY-5 had no landing gear and it wasn't an amphibian.
ack-ack
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There is another issue that people don't seem to realize, the PBY-5 had no landing gear and it wasn't an amphibian.
ack-ack
later versions had landing gear or were field mods........
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I am thinking that they only are water bourne. They can launch from PT boat spawns only (port, PT spawns from bases or a fleet). Makes its use somewhat limited, however, if in the right conditions, could resupply a CV. Landing within the fleet and resupplying would constitute a resupply and landing. Tower after the fleet has passed you, then, just like the PT boat, you get a ditch. My support is based on sea only. No landing options on concrete...
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So, it is not amphibious. Well, that was its one advantage over the Sunderland and Emily. With that change the Emily is just hands down better for the game. It has the advantage in every way.
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later versions had landing gear or were field mods........
No, none of the PBY-5s were field modded into PBY-5As.
ack-ack
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So, it is not amphibious. Well, that was its one advantage over the Sunderland and Emily. With that change the Emily is just hands down better for the game. It has the advantage in every way.
Only the PBY-5A was amphibious.
ack-ack
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Only the PBY-5A was amphibious.
ack-ack
okay............so why can't we have the PBY-5A again???????????
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okay............so why can't we have the PBY-5A again???????????
It would be a hanger queen.
ack-ack
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The PBY up to the -6 model were all used in ww2, but the -5a was the most produced of the aircraft. And why not allow it to land on concrete? Add it as a bomber, allow it to carry cargo, along with the ability to carry an ordinance payload, and let it take off from airfields, as well as ports (like the storch) and from the CV/crusier. Oh its too under armed to be added? It would be flying target practice? so is the storch, ju87, ju88, both japanese heavy bombers, and c47. I see all of them being used, and I have had several kills gunning in their turrets (where applicable). If you don't like it, don't fly it, leave that to someone else, but make the CV resupp-able. And heck! why not add floatplane fighters to take off from the CV and Ports? It would add another dimension to the game and make the ports less vulnerable, could even escort the PBY's, like we do now with any bomber formation or c47 drop.
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It would be a hanger queen.
ack-ack
ummm akak maybe to you it would be a hangar queen but not to me it wouldn't I would use it atleast once a day if not more and being a hangar queen does not say it can't be added into the game............
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ummm akak maybe to you it would be a hangar queen but not to me it wouldn't I would use it atleast once a day if not more and being a hangar queen does not say it can't be added into the game............
Ditto :cheers: Yall should also check out my post on wishlist about the landing ship tank. I think that'd be better than the pby, but what the heck, why not both?! Step our naval game up hitech! :D
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ummm akak maybe to you it would be a hangar queen but not to me it wouldn't I would use it atleast once a day if not more and being a hangar queen does not say it can't be added into the game............
No, it doesn't, but there should be a reason for it to be added. Scenarios or something. And if its use isn't specific to it, then one has to ask what is the best use of developer resources? Wouldn't it be better to have a flying boat that isn't a hangar queen?
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+1
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I'd be happy and amused to see the PBY-5A and H8K2 'Emily' added in the same patch like the SBD-5 and D3A1 were, only this time the Japanese would be getting the better plane.
I wonder how many of the guys giving a "+" or otherwise advocating for the PBY-5A would actually end up spending a lot more time in the H8K2 'Emily'?
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As popular as the PBNJ is with the community. Reason seems to demand that it be added somehow in the not too distant future. Along with some other changes so it will have something to do aside from catch bullets once airborne.
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PBY would make a great add-on to the sub-hunter role! Hmm... then we would need subs. And then we would need Destroyers with depth charges.
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PBY would make a great add-on to the sub-hunter role! Hmm... then we would need subs. And then we would need Destroyers with depth charges.
I'd rather use Mossies for sub hunting. Probably be a lot more effective at it too.
That said, PBY-5A, Short Sunderland and H8K2 were all used as sub hunters.
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I'd be happy and amused to see the PBY-5A and H8K2 'Emily' added in the same patch like the SBD-5 and D3A1 were, only this time the Japanese would be getting the better plane.
I wonder how many of the guys giving a "+" or otherwise advocating for the PBY-5A would actually end up spending a lot more time in the H8K2 'Emily'?
The point would be it's probably THE iconic flying boat of the war, even if others were more capable. And just like any other "hangar queen," people would still fly it even if something better was available for no better reason than that alone.
Of course, a PBY with some of the Black Cat armament packages would be REALLY fun to play with.
Something I'd always thought would be cool is that a PBY (or other patrol plane) that gets within a certain distance of a CV group would put the boat's icon up on the map so long as it maintained contact with the task group. That would give such aircraft a specific Main Arena usage right out of the gate.
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The point would be it's probably THE iconic flying boat of the war, even if others were more capable. And just like any other "hangar queen," people would still fly it even if something better was available for no better reason than that alone.
Of course, a PBY with some of the Black Cat armament packages would be REALLY fun to play with.
Something I'd always thought would be cool is that a PBY (or other patrol plane) that gets within a certain distance of a CV group would put the boat's icon up on the map so long as it maintained contact with the task group. That would give such aircraft a specific Main Arena usage right out of the gate.
That's a great idea Sax. Having them act like AWACS is a great idea and exactly how they were used during a lot of naval engagements.
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Spotters for naval gunfire is not exactly like AWACS. No WWII aircraft did the AWACS role.
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The idea of flying boats significantly replenishing a CV task force is absurd.
Yea if they want to make it more real they should have lines of frigates heading from the port to the CVs location. Maybe a frigate spawns like trucks and brings in supply.....could give enemy PT boats a good time shooting at them.
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Yea if they want to make it more real they should have lines of frigates heading from the port to the CVs location. Maybe a frigate spawns like trucks and brings in supply.....could give enemy PT boats a good time shooting at them.
And B-25Hs, Mosquito VIs and, someday, Beaufighters.
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+1 to freight convoys to the CVs.
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PBY would make a great add-on to the sub-hunter role! Hmm... then we would need subs. And then we would need Destroyers with depth charges.
And PT boats with depth charges.
ack-ack
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I never thought I'd say it but...
And PT boats with depth charges.
ack-ack
+1
If anyone has cats and dogs please check and tell me if they're playing together.
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Spotters for naval gunfire is not exactly like AWACS. No WWII aircraft did the AWACS role.
Yes and no. Pilots always reported back fighter locations to CINC. Like AWACS but not.
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Yes and no. Pilots always reported back fighter locations to CINC. Like AWACS but not.
Wouldn't that basically be what darbar is for?
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Yes and no. Pilots always reported back fighter locations to CINC. Like AWACS but not.
And currently, we have planes in the game that performed the same scouting role as the PBY did and have a much greater chance of survival, planes like the B-17, B-24s and even the carrier bombers like teh TBM and SBD.
ack-ack
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I like "hangar queens". Always looking for the "outside the norm" fun factor. ;)
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I WANT these planes 'pby, Sutherland, hk8'.....and NOT to resup CV..thats retarded :banana: and it doesnt matter if they land in AH water...they have historical use for the game and people want to fly them....enough said :banana:
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+1 on all three flying boats. But if I can only have one I want the PBY-5A. More mulite role cable it was used to run suplys to pasific basies but it also unlike the outher 2 choices can land on land. I would defently fly it expeshaly if you could up like a formashion of 3 from a carryer groop and then hit targets. As long as you had fighter cover it would be way better than a TBM.
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+1 for the Catalina
After the Ki-43 and HE-111 of course.
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I want pby for my new fav torp bomber!
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H8K was rare but used for anti shipping and bombing. but i like MERKIN a/c so pby def h8k is good idea as well plus the A6m2 with floats. they were used quiet alot granted the floats added alot of weight and drag when fighting
+1
+1
+1
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One answer to the problem of the PBY being overshadowed by the H8K in arena play would be to perk the H8K.
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ince we're having all these changes in the game when it comes to resupplying. I thought it be a good time to bring up the idea of being able to resupply cv fleets, and what better plane can you think of for a role like that besides the PBY Catalina! :banana: It'd be tons of fun! Also add some more options to aircraft we can fly out of ports. Or even a pt boat with supplies from a pt spawn n drive out to cv. So, what do you guys think?
Good idea! :aok
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One answer to the problem of the PBY being overshadowed by the H8K in arena play would be to perk the H8K.
Well, there may not have been a lot of H8Ks built, but they were worked hard. And if overshadowing the PBY-5A is cause to be perked pretty much everything other than the Storch will need to be perked. Remember, the H8K2's performance is about the same as a B-17G's.
The problem with the PBY-5A is that its performance is so much lower that if the option is between it and taking off from another base with land based planes the best answer will almost always be to take off from another base with land based planes.
H8K2: ENY 10
PBY-5A: ENY 40
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+ for the PBY and resupply of CV. A flying boat resupplying a CVBG is no more ridiculous than a single M3 doing this for a land base. The resupply feature of the main arena strat game was never meant to be realistic. Rather, it was meant to introduce a basic logistics system without requiring the massive manpower and material support, not to mention the inherently unexciting (relatively, as I don't wish to in any way denigrate the heroic efforts of the combat support troops) nature of, military logistics.
The PBY is, as has been noted, an iconic aircraft, built in larger numbers than any other comparable seaplane, and played a historically significant role in every maritime theater during WWII. It has the advantage of being amphibious, able to operate from both land and sea, and is a multi-role platform. I'd like to see it capable of operating from ports and coastal airbases, and have the ability to carry field supplies, vehicle supplies, bombs, and torpedoes (not troops, as it was not typically used for dropping paratroops, though it was occasionally used to insert commando forces). Resupply of a CV would involve setting down on the water within 1 mile of the CV and discharging the cargo (do so quickly, lest the CV move beyond 1 mile while you're puttzing around). On a historical note, while the limited cargo capacity of a PBY did not allow it (historically speaking) to perform bulk resupply of a task force at sea, they were in fact used to deliver high-value replacement parts for critical systems, and personnel, too, to naval units at sea and to isolated land outposts. From a game-play perspective, I would not allow them to spawn from CV's, as this is simply historically unfounded.
On a tangential note, I'd love to see the float-plane version of the A6M added, also to give ports a limited ability to project air power and to protect against it. I also think it would be cool to add a float plane that could operate from the cruiser, while we're asking for the world. :pray :D
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Well, there may not have been a lot of H8Ks built, but they were worked hard. And if overshadowing the PBY-5A is cause to be perked pretty much everything other than the Storch will need to be perked. Remember, the H8K2's performance is about the same as a B-17G's.
The problem with the PBY-5A is that its performance is so much lower that if the option is between it and taking off from another base with land based planes the best answer will almost always be to take off from another base with land based planes.
H8K2: ENY 10
PBY-5A: ENY 40
This is one reason why the PBY and H8K should have a mechanical role specific role unique to them that no other plane can do, like the Storch and its advantages spotting GVs (CV spotting as I suggested).
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This is one reason why the PBY and H8K should have a mechanical role specific role unique to them that no other plane can do, like the Storch and its advantages spotting GVs (CV spotting as I suggested).
The problem is that the PBY-5A's performance is so bad it would simply not get used for CV spotting. The H8K2s might be good enough, but the moment you toss a perk price onto a 285mph plane it will also not get used.
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I want pby for CV sinking...2 US toros sink a Cv and the pby would have them.
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I want pby for CV sinking...2 US toros sink a Cv and the pby would have them.
Since we don't have a night period in which the PBY could use to hide itself during an attack and the CV guns are modeled to mimic radar controlled guns, the Catalina's chances of surviving long enough to launch its torpedoes would be very slim in game.
People don't seem to realize that the PBY's success in the anti-shipping role was largely due to the fact they were flying at night with all the protection the darkness afforded. The PBY wouldn't have that added protection in game.
ack-ack
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Since we don't have a night period in which the PBY could use to hide itself during an attack and the CV guns are modeled to mimic radar controlled guns, the Catalina's chances of surviving long enough to launch its torpedoes would be very slim in game.
People don't seem to realize that the PBY's success in the anti-shipping role was largely due to the fact they were flying at night with all the protection the darkness afforded. The PBY wouldn't have that added protection in game.
ack-ack
All I need is 5in gunners looking the other way/no gunners manning them. It's what it takes for any torp plane to get a hit anyway(at least for me and I torp often)
Anyway I also fly plane because I like them, not because it's "survivable" in LW(my like of torps for ships instead of buff). I'm sure others do the same.
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All I need is 5in gunners looking the other way/no gunners manning them.
You also need complete air superiority. Even an A6M2 will rip you apart. The slow Sea Hurricane Mk I may well find its perfect prey in the PBY-5A.
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:aok +1
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I think the swoardfish would be a more suiting addiditon. PBY would be sweet, but i see it getting less use then Midway using ACM!
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getting shot down a lot comes with the territory of the torpedo plane :banana: