Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Lusche on September 26, 2012, 02:44:41 PM
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We have the new strats for a month now. And they work, having a big impact on downtimes of field objects and, most importantly, towns. Having enemy towns down for 2h and more instead of only 30 minutes offers a huge advantage especially in the light of the new ability to resupply them.
Similar with ords, maybe THE single key asset in both defense as well as on the offense.
But is it being utilized? In my experience, not really.
Yes, we see a much increased number of strat runs, but that's almost always by enterprising lone buff pilots. There is the occasional buff mission, but usually only for 'fun' (no, that's not a bad thing, but that isn't my point) and often quite ineffective. In both cases, there is a lack of follow up porking runs.
In that context it strikes me that the often called for „organisation“ is almost exclusively used in strictly tactical, base grabbing context. „Let's organise“ simply means: Get as many players as possible and roll some bases. There are some large squads which do only have that as a purpose.
And this is the point that makes me wonder: A relatively small number of players could now really make an impact. Coordinated strikes at key strategic targets combined with some porkage could quite effectively strangle the enemies ability to wage war on a specific front. With comparatively little effort. But it seems to me that it's not even being taken into consideration by the big generals of AH land.
Don't get me wrong – it's not about those who don't care for country and war anyway, of course they don't do that stuff, and I'm absolutely not saying they should. Actually I'm not even saying anybody should.
I'm simply wondering why those speaking about organisation, teamwork and „the war“ all the time just do not use the big opportunities? Instead, everyone of them seems to embrace BFI – brute force and ignorance. Towns only down for 30 minutes and resupplyable? Get more people in your mission!!!! They speak of teamwork and doing it for your „country“, but totally ignore every action that could give your side a long term advantage but doesn't result in an immediate base capture.
And while I'm at it, that covers the defense as well. Several times I encountered players begging for help in resupplying the strats, calling out not joining as „no team players“ - But the same players never upped to defend the strats in the first place, even when the approaching enemy was called out early enough. Instead, the asked for even more help in resupplying. If you compare the effort necessary to undo damage to a factory with that of stopping a set of Lancs incoming at 13k, one can only shake his head in disbelief...
So why is organisation understood in only such a limited way?
Habit? Strat system still too complex? Not enough „WTFG A95!“?
Or is there actually a body of people out there which IS using the opportunities to fight for „their country“ with cold, analytical efficiency above and beyond the smash&grab?
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Look into their mind, Snail. Every human creature wants a quick success, especially when their playing time is limited. So just forming a big smash n grab "horde" mission is possibly more and quicker success for them than flying to the strats (2 hours?), porking ords and stuff, etc...
This is just how i see it.
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wait, so the play pen has gotten too complex for the kids to handle? :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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You'd just think there would be a few people who take the long view on taking down the strats, say just before primetime, so their guys have an easier time of it when the hordes start rolling. Not sure why that doesn't happen.
As for why people resupply versus defending, I think it's because it doesn't happen instantly, particularly if you're going for bombers above 15k. Setting up for a set of bombers at speed can take 20 minutes or more depending on your plane choice, and that's if you guess right what they're doing. Few people have the patience for that.
I agree with Debrody, it's just not an immediate enough effect for most.
Wiley.
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I have been doing strat runs :old:
Getting home is fun I was attacked by a 262 and lots of other planes it was great, I gave the 262 a good fetling :)
Crhis3 is in charge of Bomber command at present, I am free on Friday evening "real time" not "yanky time" to fly in a combined bomber sortie with escort. :)
Chris3 organized a 410 strat run which was doomed to failure :rofl
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I generally don't haven hours to spend playing this GAME. For those who do, more power to you. It's the reason that I spend more time in the DA than I do in the MA. It's flat out boring as hell to even consider spending even 15 minutes flying from one base to another only to find there's no COMPETITION.
Many people don't seem to remember that games are about competition. One of the greatest things about this game is that it has so many different aspects that allow a great variety of enjoyment for whomever desires them. Quit downing those who don't have the time or the desire to play this GAME the way you think they should, organize a squad with similar interests in it or find people who will work with you. Thanks, and have a nice day!
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I generally don't haven hours to spend playing this GAME. For those who do, more power to you. It's the reason that I spend more time in the DA than I do in the MA. It's flat out boring as hell to even consider spending even 15 minutes flying from one base to another only to find there's no COMPETITION.
Many people don't seem to remember that games are about competition. One of the greatest things about this game is that it has so many different aspects that allow a great variety of enjoyment for whomever desires them. Quit downing those who don't have the time or the desire to play this GAME the way you think they should, organize a squad with similar interests in it or find people who will work with you. Thanks, and have a nice day!
I think you have misunderstood me :)
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I find it entertaining that more often than not, the lone wolf 'fighters' like to suggest how leaders should coordinate rather than getting their own team together and getting it done.
Note: This is not directed at you Snail
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I generally don't haven hours to spend playing this GAME. For those who do, more power to you. It's the reason that I spend more time in the DA than I do in the MA. It's flat out boring as hell to even consider spending even 15 minutes flying from one base to another only to find there's no COMPETITION.
Many people don't seem to remember that games are about competition. One of the greatest things about this game is that it has so many different aspects that allow a great variety of enjoyment for whomever desires them. Quit downing those who don't have the time or the desire to play this GAME the way you think they should, organize a squad with similar interests in it or find people who will work with you. Thanks, and have a nice day!
xbox nubbin...panties wadded.
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xbox nubbin...panties wadded.
:rofl
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The majority (note I don't say all) of the people who focus solely on winning the war mainly apply 'brute force and ignorance' strategies because that is all they are capable of.
That is kind of what defines them.
They don't get any enjoyment from the aerial combat part of the game because they are so bad at it, so instead they get their enjoyment (and sometimes their frothing rage) from winning, or trying to win the war. They don't use any complicated tactics to achieve these aims because it's simply beyond them.
Hordes of bad players banding together in excessively large numbers to try to achieve something has been a constant facet of MMO player vs player gameplay for as long as I've been playing those kinds of games.
As we all know, small squads of better players can and do achieve success using skill and tactics in this game, just as in others. Taking a base with only 4 or 5 pilots, beating a horde using altitude and wing tactics while outnumbered, porking strategic targets to attempt to stall the enemy advance, etc.
I'm sure the strats will become part of those tactics used by certain types of players in the future, but I somehow doubt that the most vocal country loyalists and common horde organisers will do the same.
Their minds can only deal with the big picture in terms like: 'we are winning because everyone is doing what I say!' or 'We are losing because you guys aren't listening to me/spies'. :)
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The only benifit I see from the new resupply model leveraged by the average player is to single handedly stop a base roll by resupplying the town ack with an M3 at the most inopportune moment. Now you really need the VHoard smash and grab tactical method if you don't plan ahead when attacking an airfeild. Hitech seems to have listened to the crys for a more strategic game. If you cannot plan for a single M3 to ruin your day, how can you run a strategic initiative at a whole country?
If you don't get the FH and VH down along with the town and troops running in the first 5 minutes. By the end of the first 10 minutes, if you didn't bother to send VH killers to all the enemy feilds spawning to the feild you are trying to capture. Just when your troops show up and your furball in the grass is getting good. Some one yells M3, M3 near town. Then town ack pops up and screws your pooch while all the defenders rip you a new one.
If we keep falling on our faces when Hitech gives us baby steps. Why do you keep yelling at him to give us tall builds to leap over?
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The majority (note I don't say all) of the people who focus solely on winning the war mainly apply 'brute force and ignorance' strategies because that is all they are capable of.
^^^^ this, and the biggest reason, because it works.
Why should players change their style of play when what they are doing is working so well? Strats? Who needs them, just roll the base with a horde.
What I think is needed is some new rules, or "carrots" to entice the players away from horde antics and more toward strategic, and tactical play.
here are some "maybes"
1. for every hour that one of the strats are down, every player on that team gets 10 perks. So if the knights keep the bish ammo under 100% for an hour all Knights get 10 perks. If they keep ammo AND fuel down for the same hour, 20 perks for all kinghts and on.
2. win the war means you need the base percentage as well as the dar dead. This will set up a mass mission to hit the HQ for the win, People should defend that.
3. less guys in a dar circle, less percentage needed for a white flag, more in the dar, the higher the percentage.
HTC could "guide" play away from hordes and more toward organized attacks if they wanted to. By creating a different way to win, they would create more places to battle. Now, can the xbox group handle "battles" or would they all run away to play WOW?
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you're tripping on your own logic Fugitive, if the majority of players enjoy turning their brains off and playing the simple minded weight of numbers game, why would HTC change anything?
most of their customers are happy it seems. if they make things difficult i imagine they would have unhappy customers.
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That's what I'm saying. I think it would be easy enough to change game play by adding carrots or rules to bring in a more strategic game, but would they be cutting their own throats doing it?
This game has been heading more and more towards the WOW mentality of press a button 20 times move the stick around a bit and congratulate everyone on killing another "boss".... err base.
To bring it back to a "strategic" game where skill and planning pay off better than brute force.... well some sacrifices would have to be made.
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Or is there actually a body of people out there which IS using the opportunities to fight for „their country“ with cold, analytical efficiency above and beyond the smash&grab?
on one hand you have a bunch of experienced players who arent loyal to any country and justify it by making fun of the chess pice loyals. on the other you want people to fight for "their country".
on the third hand, you have a bunch of guys who couldnt care less who wins or doesnt win the war. we just here to have fun. and for some it means attack the strats, for others defend the strats and for others horde and for others furballing and for others....
enjoy the game, we arent here to "win a war" or to "defend a country". we are here to have fun, so have fun your way and if it isnt fun then find another game to play.
really gets old reading about threads from old timers who whine about how the game "should be played" or "isnt played".
semp
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really gets old reading about threads from old timers who whine about how the game "should be played" or "isnt played".
Good thing that this isn't one of those threads :)
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Just so you know I totally agree with you oh great and wise snail. :aok
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We have the new strats for a month now. And they work, having a big impact on downtimes of field objects and, most importantly, towns. Having enemy towns down for 2h and more instead of only 30 minutes offers a huge advantage especially in the light of the new ability to resupply them.
Similar with ords, maybe THE single key asset in both defense as well as on the offense.
......
But is it being utilized? In my experience, not really.
Yes, we see a much increased number of strat runs, but that's almost always by enterprising lone buff pilots. There is the occasional buff mission, but usually only for 'fun' (no, that's not a bad thing, but that isn't my point) and often quite ineffective. In both cases, there is a lack of follow up porking runs.
In that context it strikes me that the often called for „organisation“ is almost exclusively used in strictly tactical, base grabbing context. „Let's organise“ simply means: Get as many players as possible and roll some bases. There are some large squads which do only have that as a purpose.
............................. ......................
And this is the point that makes me wonder: A relatively small number of players could now really make an impact. Coordinated strikes at key strategic targets combined with some porkage could quite effectively strangle the enemies ability to wage war on a specific front. With comparatively little effort. But it seems to me that it's not even being taken into consideration by the big generals of AH land.
:aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok
Agreed, with the newly 30 rebuild time limits in place, it perplexes the senses to still try so hard to rush and take a base with even the bare participation of pilots. However, few invest in the time for an opening beginning on the strats so that they can enjoy the rest of the evening taking bases in a more relaxed manner. :bhead
Yes as others said that players are mostly into the game for a 'quick fix', but we all know that really applies toward the furballers these days. Base taking these days is anything but a 'quick fix', but an easily defeated effort with 30 minute rebuild times unless you're flying on the bish or knit side with 20+ players attacking a single base (I.E. 2 dar bars) and overwhelming the target taking a base about once every 40 minutes non-stop.
For those that are not in an overwhelming attack #s 24hrs / 7 days a week (I.E. Rooks), the Strat system is a perfect balancer. It just boggles the mind that people rather have a mission with low#s, get frustrated when the mission fails, and yet don't see the light of trying for a strat mission first. :bhead
**** Lastly, those who whine to help resupply strats, also apply to those complaining about 'Please help defend'! Yet you rarely see those types of mentalities help attack bases. The easy road vs. the more patient road. People enjoy a quick furball to the tower, and that's fine. but those shouldn't get the privilege of whining on country to come help resupply or defense, when they don't participate in the occasional offensive attacks, which is far more productive (attacking incoming bombers, attacking bases, attacking ords, etc). Oh and there's a bonus too, during any attack on a base you will START A FURBALL at the same time. It's just on your terms and not on their's :bhead
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Just so you know I totally agree with you oh great and wise snail. :aok
That's nice... but with what? I'm basically just asking questions, so "I agree" leaves me kinda puzzled :headscratch: ;)
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What Fugitive said...
What I think is needed is some new rules, or "carrots" to entice the players away from horde antics and more toward strategic, and tactical play.
here are some "maybes"
1. for every hour that one of the strats are down, every player on that team gets 10 perks. So if the knights keep the bish ammo under 100% for an hour all Knights get 10 perks. If they keep ammo AND fuel down for the same hour, 20 perks for all kinghts and on.
2. win the war means you need the base percentage as well as the dar dead. This will set up a mass mission to hit the HQ for the win, People should defend that.
3. less guys in a dar circle, less percentage needed for a white flag, more in the dar, the higher the percentage.
HTC could "guide" play away from hordes and more toward organized attacks if they wanted to. By creating a different way to win, they would create more places to battle. Now, can the xbox group handle "battles" or would they all run away to play WOW?
End quote
This would be a great idea.
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Maybe it needs a bit more time to catch on and for players to figure it out? Just the other day I ran into some sporting chaps on the way to visit the Knight strats. I believe Dadkev and DaveyJ were some of the guys involved with this social call. Please feel free to stop by anytime fellaz! :D :aok
Not the best screen shot but it gives ya an idea. Everyone involved in this raid on both sides seemed to have had a lot of fun. <S>
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z207/Pimpzdog/ahss52-1.jpg)
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I agree with everying people say in this thread, then again I dont :old:
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A proper Strategy game looks like this;
(http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/1136288886014755783/F104D469062308DDB5BB7E277258591FA4607D52/)
And AcesHigh looks nothing like that :neener: How can anyone organise properly without large arrows!?
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So why is organization understood in only such a limited way? Habit? Strat system still too complex? Not enough "WTFG A95!“?
I fancy habit[/b] and even more the "this is how it is done" mindset that allows our AH habits to continue and flourish is the best answer.
Also, there's the example of players whom others admire. In the latter case, I'm thinking of those who care nothing of organization in the sense you're speaking, Lusche. Their joy requires no planning but does rely upon having enough followers to make their 30 mins to 2 hours playing AH fun.
So, "desire" and "habit" might be the best answers. As in, "I don't have fun looking and or playing AH when it requires organization," and "I'm not sure what you mean by organization? How else would be organize than in the manner we are accustomed?"
I'm pondering this as I'm writing, so bear with me. I have noticed a decrease in strat resupply since the reward has been reduced to 3.75 perks. So, it's fair to say when a reward is high enough, folks will pursue an activity to earn the reward. But that's really beside your question.
I feel I'm at a disadvantage these days because I fly very little during prime time. Most of my flying is during the morning when the numbers of players in-flight are low on all sides. So, I'm not privy to country channel chattering as to what the best move would be and the best method to adopt.
What little I have witnessed during prime-time over the last month resembles an organization method that possesses a very high degree of "WTG A95's" while requiring the least amount of time possible.
Over the past month, I've been pleased to see that folks are hitting the strats. Frequently, each country has sustained a fair amount to much damage to their factories. But I've not seen things like this on country channel: "Ok -- in 30 mins the Knight anti-aircraft battery factory will be significantly damaged. We'll need a squad or two to follow up on that work by tacking out ack at A33 and V45. Following their missions, let's get plans and players in the works to cap and capture those bases." I've not seen that sort of chatter nor heard it on range. Now it might be going on but not when I play or it maybe taking place on squad voxs exclusively.
What I have seen is something like this: "Come on gents. General XYZ has a mission up. Needs 20 Lancasters. We're going to really put it to the Rooks." Or, you could remove the Lancs and put jabos in their place.
Actually, it all might boil down to the most bang for the least amount of time. During the 7 to 9 mins to target range channel is aflame with bravado and all the silly albeit fun stuff that happens in AH. For the 15 mins of time that General XYZ asks, the players know what's coming and they have fun. Is it so that from more than 1/3rd of AH players (thinking bell curve), the answer would be, "Hey, what's not to like!" I don't think that "habit" or "desire" covers that example. It might be "economy." Get much for little?
Lastly, I have posted some buff runs to strats a few times over the past month. I lose about 2/3rds on the way to a target that asks 25K from us for a decent chance at multiple passes with 3 to 4 bomber formations. I sense those who drop out earliest do so because they see it's not a 15 min hullabaloo from wheels up to wheels down.
So, my answer to your question is "economy" limits our understanding of organization.
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Now this is coincidental. Just logged on about 6AM my time. A very healthy strat raid is over our strats. So up I go from a 4.2k base. Climb away; turn; climb; lvl at 25k. Will let you know what I see.
I didn't ask on country for intel. I've become soured on wrong info. So, I'm using up my 1st 30 mins today.
Well never did see them. If cntry channel is to be believed, they were intrepid Rooks at 4 to 9K. Boy did I guess wrong.
Well that 6 sector run on their part makes sense. The alt, baffles me.
They put a dent in Bish strats so <S>.
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As has been stated before I see a few issues at play here. One is that allot of folks just do not have the time to really dedicate to a good strat run. Especially when you have such early warning of an impending attack. I have seen them and by the time they get there either half the defenders have upped 163s just for the joyride (I do that occasionally because it is such a freaky aircraft) and the rest of upped quick climbing buff hunters and are well at altitude by the time they arrive. It just makes it a heck of a gunfight with little payoff personally and for the country as well unless you actually manage to get a lot of ord on target (which I do not see often).
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:aok :aok :aok Man, I have only been Bish for 2 weeks....and having loads of fun! :cheers: :cheers: I love Strat runs, Big ol Bomber formations! It is awesome. :banana: :banana: But most of all..........its a game! :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Maybe it needs a bit more time to catch on and for players to figure it out? Just the other day I ran into some sporting chaps on the way to visit the Knight strats. I believe Dadkev and DaveyJ were some of the guys involved with this social call. Please feel free to stop by anytime fellaz! :D :aok
Not the best screen shot but it gives ya an idea. Everyone involved in this raid on both sides seemed to have had a lot of fun. <S>
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z207/Pimpzdog/ahss52-1.jpg)
That was tons of fun Pipz..plenty of targets for both sides to shoot at! :aok We've been doing those sort of raids more regularly and it gets lots of fighter attention. I will be to let you know next time in game if we are doing one. :salute
Awesome flying those missions with you Daddkev! Hope you join us next time too.
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o just forming a big smash n grab "horde" mission is possibly more and quicker success for them than flying to the strats (2 hours?), porking ords and stuff, etc...
For much of the time with people working day jobs I think you are right on Debrody. Perhaps in weekend (equivalent) playing, playing multi-hours, we'll see more players utilizing the new system possibilities.
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Let's put this plan into action. Everyone unemployed can sit around all day and plan the offenses and defenses. Then when all the workers get home and check in we can put their strategy into effect for that evening.
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Coordinated Small attacks work well up to a point. Point in case me and a wing man spent three hours doing nothing but porking ords at three key bases bish were trying to launch attacks from. We had very little effect. We hit our targets reliably every time but as soon as the bish wanted to launch one of their mass attacks they would simply mass resupply. So a base with ords and dar down was fully back up before we even left the bases dar ring. Its a great tactic and honestly I wish I would have brought another player with rockets to kill the resuping m3s;) Of course he would have had to fight through the 4 spits that were launched to kill us;) Porking ords has become almost useless in stopping hordes with the new resupply parameters.
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Well, HiTech gives us these pretty cool tools to help us organize. Tunable range channels, mission briefs, mission waypoints, and now new .dt commands that give us time management details. Then, just one La7 streaks out from the airfield or down from the clouds and wounds a single troop.
Whenever so many things have to come together to render a single result, the morale of players is effected. This has been the case for so long, that the MAJORITY of VOCAL players claim they care nothing at all for the game play side.
It gets much more complicated than all this but the bottom line is success breeds success. Running into the category of :bhead just falling short, quickly earns you the squelch function.
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Porking ords has become almost useless in stopping hordes with the new resupply parameters.
how so? resupply is less effective now than it was before.. it only used to take 5 loads to completely bring ords/troops/dar/etc fully up.
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how so? resupply is less effective now than it was before.. it only used to take 5 loads to completely bring ords/troops/dar/etc fully up.
Now it takes 2 runs for a single player starting at the moment the ords go down, if the factory is at 100% - which they are most of the time.
This chart I made for the city/town, but the numbers are the same for ammo factory/ords
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/3e1d5d3d.jpg)
If you have several player resupplying, the runs/time required would go down accordingly.
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Chilli,
The neat tools don't matter to the majority of players. The minority who have complained loudly for years to be given these neat tools are now complaining for a different reason. They cannot use the neat tools to control the actions of the majority of players like robotic Stratego peices to execute their otherwise perfict complex plans.
The rest of us are living through the 6 to 9 months of trial and error to adapt to the current changes and get back to exploiting the weaknesses in the process to have the most disorganised fun possible. The best reason to read these ongoing complaint posts is the free analysis of the weeknesses to shave off some time from the 6 to 9 months of trial and error. Who else is better qualified to analyse the new process and identify the weaknesses than the geniuses who asked for the change?
Eventualy they will get down to their other unspoken complaint HTC will Mode them for in here. We are dumber than stumps and are spoiling their utopian image of how the game should be played. Then they will ask for more strategic tools. This in the utopian hope eventualy the tools will account for our stupidity and unwillingness to follow anything but our personal myopic selfishness in the face of their greater strategic visions. The holy grail of these tools functions by taking advantage of those baser qualities as a function of the tool and not a function of personal charisma.
I always thought that was the mission planner and the personal charisma of the person or squad posting the mission. But, then thats messier and full of stupid uncontrolable people unlike Stratego or Chess.
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Who is "they" and could you point me at some of their "complaint posts"?
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Now it takes 2 runs for a single player starting at the moment the ords go down, if the factory is at 100% - which they are most of the time.
This chart I made for the city/town, but the numbers are the same for ammo factory/ords
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/3e1d5d3d.jpg)
If you have several player resupplying, the runs/time required would go down accordingly.
It only takes one player a single pass with a 190/la7/51d/etc to take out both ords and likely radar too on the reversal. Then they run home with oil smoking and land their pork points.
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For me (not to avoid COMBAT) why should our squad up buffs only to be seen 20 sectors away, fly 2hrs just to get jumped by 100 152's, 262's, 163's, and many more fighters whom only have to put in about 20 minutes of flight time. So what I am saying is whats the point if your seen on dar bar :salute
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For me (not to avoid COMBAT) why should our squad up buffs only to be seen 20 sectors away, fly 2hrs just to get jumped by 100 152's, 262's, 163's, and many more fighters whom only have to put in about 20 minutes of flight time. So what I am saying is whats the point if your seen on dar bar :salute
That's one of the reasons I hope they split the strats back up instead of being in one big group. Once that big old dar bar shows up everyone knows where it's going. If the strats are split they have to guess which why the group is going, or if it is going to split it self. Instead of a single 25 mile sector line to cover to spot the raid coming in you'll have a lot of ground to cover to spot them making that intercept ride longer and a bit chancyer in finding anything.
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Chilli,
The neat tools don't matter to the majority of players. The minority who have complained loudly for years to be given these neat tools are now complaining for a different reason. They cannot use the neat tools to control the actions of the majority of players like robotic Stratego peices to execute their otherwise perfict complex plans.
The rest of us are living through the 6 to 9 months of trial and error to adapt to the current changes and get back to exploiting the weaknesses in the process to have the most disorganised fun possible. The best reason to read these ongoing complaint posts is the free analysis of the weeknesses to shave off some time from the 6 to 9 months of trial and error. Who else is better qualified to analyse the new process and identify the weaknesses than the geniuses who asked for the change?
Eventualy they will get down to their other unspoken complaint HTC will Mode them for in here. We are dumber than stumps and are spoiling their utopian image of how the game should be played. Then they will ask for more strategic tools. This in the utopian hope eventualy the tools will account for our stupidity and unwillingness to follow anything but our personal myopic selfishness in the face of their greater strategic visions. The holy grail of these tools functions by taking advantage of those baser qualities as a function of the tool and not a function of personal charisma.
I always thought that was the mission planner and the personal charisma of the person or squad posting the mission. But, then thats messier and full of stupid uncontrolable people unlike Stratego or Chess.
I assure you Bustr, HTCs has known of our malcomplacency longer than we have.
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For me (not to avoid COMBAT) why should our squad up buffs only to be seen 20 sectors away, fly 2hrs just to get jumped by 100 152's, 262's, 163's, and many more fighters whom only have to put in about 20 minutes of flight time. So what I am saying is whats the point if your seen on dar bar :salute
I'm thinking that in Real Life that is what the Bomber pilots were thinking too. So then they went to the aircraft designers and said "Hey you guys, we are tired of being shot down by enemy fighters in our bombers. Do you think we could maybe have some of our own enemy fighter to fly along with us and shoot some of their enemy fighters down BEFORE they shoot our bombers down?". And the aircraft designers thought about that for awhile and they decided this was a good idea so they designed them and then the builders built them and the flyers flied them and verily I say unto you it was good, and a new age was born. Now luckily them there genuises at Aces High are WAY ahead of this deal so they already have them there fighter ready for a whole bunch of us fighter pilots to take up and defend your bombers, verily. The trick is, ya gotta ask for a few guys to escort you and thwart them thar enemy fighters. Guys like me. Just waiting for you to ask who love to escort, verily.
Have P47N, will escort sir <S>.
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For me (not to avoid COMBAT) why should our squad up buffs only to be seen 20 sectors away, fly 2hrs just to get jumped by 100 152's, 262's, 163's, and many more fighters whom only have to put in about 20 minutes of flight time. So what I am saying is whats the point if your seen on dar bar :salute
all 3 countries have buffs attacking each other strats. if you dont want to fly for 2 hours in buffs, then spend 20 minutes defending yours. or heck dont hit the strats, nobody is forcing you to, hit the damn 20 bases that are between where you up and the strats you will probably end up with more perks anyway.
semp
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Now it takes 2 runs for a single player starting at the moment the ords go down, if the factory is at 100% - which they are most of the time.
This chart I made for the city/town, but the numbers are the same for ammo factory/ords
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/3e1d5d3d.jpg)
If you have several player resupplying, the runs/time required would go down accordingly.
well hell, that shows how much i have been paying attention. i thought player supplies only took off 4 minutes?
:o
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i thought player supplies only took off 4 minutes?
Yes, but for City/factories/HQ
Town and field object resupply is 10 minutes restored per drop.
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Yes, but for City/factories/HQ
Town and field object resupply is 10 minutes restored per drop.
ahh yes! thanks.
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Lately, I've been seeing bases with 3 adjacent sectors around them with full enemy dar bars and not a single green dot appears until after the 27 red dots show up in the dar ring.
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and not a single green dot appears until after the 27 red dots show up in the dar ring.
I don't know that I have seen the same, but I get you point. Too much country channel makes dullards of us all.
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All I know is, in my bit of time to play last night, I put up a B17 mission. 10 joined, another couple flights were behind us, and we picked up volunteer escorts along the way. We set out at 25K for Rook City.
It started getting pretty action packed a couple sectors out from target, starting out with some head-on 410's, co-alt Rook Jug interceptors, Ta152's, 262's,... it was a blast! I gotta say it was so cool to have a lot of chin guns trained on a head-on 410 coming in as one piece and coming out as shrapnel. Escorts had plenty of cons to keep them busy, and we succeeded in taking City down to 49%.
The exit back to Bishie land got pretty hairy, though. Escorts were still hung up, and we lost a few ships. So we pool together our remaining collective of .50 cals and duke it out to the last bullet with our pursuers. More B17's lost, and the few of us left took down at least nine more planes with the limited ammo we had left.
I don't get on AH that much anymore, but that's the draw right there. Love it. :)
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It only takes one player a single pass with a 190/la7/51d/etc to take out both ords and likely radar too on the reversal. Then they run home with oil smoking and land their pork points.
...or simply bail while still in the ack as they did what they came to do.
Where is the honor? I guess we now live in the xbox generation where it's all about the kill not the thrill of the chase. :headscratch:
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All I know is, in my bit of time to play last night, I put up a B17 mission. 10 joined, another couple flights were behind us, and we picked up volunteer escorts along the way. We set out at 25K for Rook City.
It started getting pretty action packed a couple sectors out from target, starting out with some head-on 410's, co-alt Rook Jug interceptors, Ta152's, 262's,... it was a blast! I gotta say it was so cool to have a lot of chin guns trained on a head-on 410 coming in as one piece and coming out as shrapnel. Escorts had plenty of cons to keep them busy, and we succeeded in taking City down to 49%.
The exit back to Bishie land got pretty hairy, though. Escorts were still hung up, and we lost a few ships. So we pool together our remaining collective of .50 cals and duke it out to the last bullet with our pursuers. More B17's lost, and the few of us left took down at least nine more planes with the limited ammo we had left.
I don't get on AH that much anymore, but that's the draw right there. Love it. :)
And in my opinion, with that kind of action EVERYBODY WINS !!!! I'm right with ya on that Thundregg, that is the biggest draw for me too, and I dont care which side I am on when it goes down, homeys :cheers:
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If you are on a boming mission and fail to bring fighter cover..... you planned poorly.
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If you are on a boming mission and fail to bring fighter cover..... you planned poorly.
It is hard to get escorts to go on bombing runs. I wouldn't say it is poor planning so much as it is "lucky" to find fighters willing to come with you.
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It is hard to get escorts to go on bombing runs. I wouldn't say it is poor planning so much as it is "lucky" to find fighters willing to come with you.
For some, perhaps. I think it's a matter of reputation- how well you get along with all players, how sensible and organized your mission is, how you keep the fun in it, how you relate to those who are just learning the game, etc..
There were times early on I had trouble wrangling up help to do these types of missions, but as time went on and word got around about the fun factor, people started asking for more of them. Now, I don't have a lot of trouble getting cover for several sets of bombers. I don't have a lot of trouble drumming up some opposition, either. ;) :D It all comes down to fun.
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I find it entertaining that more often than not, the lone wolf 'fighters' like to suggest how leaders should coordinate rather than getting their own team together and getting it done.
Note: This is not directed at you Snail
+1
Now Somebody (aside from myself) TURN THE CARRIER!
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I generally don't haven hours to spend playing this GAME. For those who do, more power to you. It's the reason that I spend more time in the DA than I do in the MA. It's flat out boring as hell to even consider spending even 15 minutes flying from one base to another only to find there's no COMPETITION.
Many people don't seem to remember that games are about competition. One of the greatest things about this game is that it has so many different aspects that allow a great variety of enjoyment for whomever desires them. Quit downing those who don't have the time or the desire to play this GAME the way you think they should, organize a squad with similar interests in it or find people who will work with you. Thanks, and have a nice day!
Agree ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Furrrrrrr.....
ballllll......!!!!!!!!!
:devil
:rock
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For some, perhaps. I think it's a matter of reputation- how well you get along with all players, how sensible and organized your mission is, how you keep the fun in it, how you relate to those who are just learning the game, etc..
There were times early on I had trouble wrangling up help to do these types of missions, but as time went on and word got around about the fun factor, people started asking for more of them. Now, I don't have a lot of trouble getting cover for several sets of bombers. I don't have a lot of trouble drumming up some opposition, either. ;) :D It all comes down to fun.
Persistance until you build enough of a reputation/repetuar is a must. IE: if 999000 hosts a bomber strat run mission, they're usually pretty popular with other pilots for bombers and escorts.
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So how long did it take all of you to come full circle and rediscover that the best strategic tool in the game is a charasmatic leader who the community trusts to lead them to victory from the front?
Furballing is like playing soccer without a goal. Ten prima donnas who happen to be kicking the ball in the same direction against ten other prima donnas trying to kick it back the other way. It turns into one big dance contest showcasing who can wiggel better in front of the collective "playerfan prima donnas" while shooting at each other.
Ch200 takes the place of contestants insulting each other by saying things like: " Your wiggel looked like you were begging me to shoot you on the first date."
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Lately, I've been seeing bases with 3 adjacent sectors around them with full enemy dar bars and not a single green dot appears until after the 27 red dots show up in the dar ring.
:aok :aok
I don't know that I have seen the same, but I get you point. Too much country channel makes dullards of us all.
Do you fly on the rooks side? What time zone? Which arena? We're in the Late War arena on the US Eastern time zone, there are always 'hordes' of bish or knits approaching bases to attack rooks. Rooks only start upping when the enemy is hitting the radar ring, instead there is a the lack of rooks required to go intercept the horde (or goons) coming 2 sectors or 1 sector away. And yes, I'm usually one of those interceptors.
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For me (not to avoid COMBAT) why should our squad up buffs only to be seen 20 sectors away, fly 2hrs just to get jumped by 100 152's, 262's, 163's, and many more fighters whom only have to put in about 20 minutes of flight time. So what I am saying is whats the point if your seen on dar bar :salute
Absolutely False, well sorta. I have already led at least 4 consecutive bomber missions to the strats and back to land most of our pilot's bombers (b17s and b29s). Albiet you need to be sneaky in the raid, minimizing dar bar and direction of travel, and having the appropriate altitude and fuel to survive long enough for primary escorts to do their job to allow you to survive just until relief escorts along your egress home route to get you all the way home. Escorts are KEY in strat missions, or you'll get jumped by the determined fighter eventually.
Just last night I had almost two full Bishop Dars trying to climb up to my B29 raid, however friendly escorts came just in time to tie them up long enough for ALL bombers to make it home safely <S>
:airplane:
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I don't have a lot of trouble drumming up some opposition, either. ;) :D It all comes down to fun.
Good for you, thndregg. That spirit marks you as an old man, I believe.
- oldman
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Good for you, thndregg. That spirit marks you as an old man, I believe.
- oldman
Ha! Not there yet. I turn 40 in January. :old: (http://mail.yimg.com/ok/u/assets/img/emoticons/emo18.gif)
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I captured 3 or 4 bases yesterday simply by flanking the base and coming in about 120 degrees off of spawn.
It was pretty fun driving up and dropping troops 40 feet behind a bunch of enemy tanks all pointed at the spawn.
If you show up 180 degrees off of spawn, the manned base guns are pointed directly at you by default when someone spawns in one.
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That's nice... but with what? I'm basically just asking questions, so "I agree" leaves me kinda puzzled :headscratch: ;)
You ask the biggest questions at the bottom but all through your post you state out your observations and I can totally agree with them. :)
People do hit strat but don't follow up and hit field strat to actually make use of the factory hit. I try to follow up after hitting factories but 1 guy can only do so much.
It seems very hard for people in general to realize the impact they could make on their base taking effort if they would look beyond the base they are looking to take and neuter the bases in the vicinity or at least the one/ones with vehicle spawns then base taking life would be just a lil easier. Just like another post in general discussion complaining about people resupping town and foiling the take attempt and all I can think while reading this whine is "why don't you pork?" Especially if the factory has been hit.
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If you show up 180 degrees off of spawn, the manned base guns are pointed directly at you by default when someone spawns in one.
no they arent. they point north by default.
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Sweet.....nice to know that.
I was basing my observation on yesterday where we were fighting guys heading in from the south.
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What is that game? Looks intriguing..
A proper Strategy game looks like this;
(http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/1136288886014755783/F104D469062308DDB5BB7E277258591FA4607D52/)
And AcesHigh looks nothing like that :neener: How can anyone organise properly without large arrows!?
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What is that game? Looks intriguing..
Hearts of Iron 3