Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: chaser on October 17, 2012, 11:52:33 PM
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I've emailed HTC about this with film at least twice and maybe a 3rd time and I've never gotten a response from them about the issue. So I'll put it up for debate on the BBS. I constantly have shells fired from my tanks that go through the tank I'm shooting at and land behind them, doing no damage. Sometimes 4 or 5 in a row will do this giving them plenty of time to shoot me. I've discovered it really doesn't matter what location of the tank you hit, I've hit hull, turret, upper broad side, lower broad side, rear, I've seen rounds go through all of them. It's not a specific part of the tank that causes this. I have noticed though that it happens most often when I'm shooting at T34-85's and 76's and Panthers coming in behind them. So how about you guys? Do y'all have this problem to?
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Use search on the BBS and you will find ytour answer
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Set the fuse on the cannon ball to go off while it's inside the tank as it's passing through! ;)
:noid
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happens to me all the time :devil
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I can't answer for HTC, though this matter is not a new one, a couple of straight forward answers could help with an explanation, even if were not the official or 100% accurate one.
Two things that I can recall were discussed in the past. 1) A round strikes the object and does not hit critical component, and thus tank is fully operational. 2nd) A round strikes the object and is deflected by the armor and / or slope of armor doing its job, and thus tank is fully operational.
In your film, I don't know if it is possible to detect nearby supplies or not, but that presents a possible 3rd answer for multiple hits on a still operational tank. Having said above that there are reasonable explanations, I will still gamble there are far more forces involved, and some may not give us the results that we would hope they would, but for the most part, things work the way one would think they would with some exceptions.
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A round that penetrate a tank does considerable damage to crew, and interior parts , how much depends on where, and how much energy it still has.
A better damage-model would be needed to fix that.
If your tank is fully penetrated, you won't do any good in it for a considerable time.
I remember when someone hit my tank with a pneumatic sledgehammer during repairs in a workshop:
I was using my tank helmet with headphones, still I was stunned by the blast for a while, ( imagine a Disney cartoon, someone hitting a wall and have little birds flying circles over his head :rolleyes: ) , even with that small amount of energy it created.
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ok it's an optical illusion. the round actually stops when it hits the tank. but due to game mechanics you see the round go thru and hit behind it. this has been explained by hitech many times. just not in the exact words as me.
semp
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Set the fuse on the cannon ball to go off while it's inside the tank as it's passing through! ;)
:noid
while you was away we upgraded to AP rounds :rolleyes:
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ok it's an optical illusion. the round actually stops when it hits the tank. but due to game mechanics you see the round go thru and hit behind it. this has been explained by hitech many times. just not in the exact words as me.
semp
It can't be. That does not explain the lack of damage done by the round. Sometimes you can hit a tank 5,6,7 times and every one goes through, yet it doesn't kill them. If you hit a panzer or even a T-34 broad side that many times, it's going to die.
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Its one of those things you hope get fixed sometime in the future like the Panther's Front lower hull. As of right now an M4(75) can pentrate a Panther from the nose, reality is almost no tank could.
Just because you scream to the truth doesn't mean anyone is listening, just keep pushing it and hope someone one day will listen.
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It can't be. That does not explain the lack of damage done by the round. Sometimes you can hit a tank 5,6,7 times and every one goes through, yet it doesn't kill them. If you hit a panzer or even a T-34 broad side that many times, it's going to die.
listen hitech himself explained it before on another thread. your end sees the round as it goes thru the tank and hits the dirt on the other side but that's not really what happens, the round stopped when it hit the other tank. this is the reason why when you there's two tanks next to each other you may see the round go thru but it doesnt damage the second tank. fly over the town when there are tanks shooting at buildings and you will see what I mean, you can clearly see the rounds go thru several buildings but only damage 1. I havent flown over towns with tanks lately but lots of have seen that before.
semp
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listen hitech himself explained it before on another thread. your end sees the round as it goes thru the tank and hits the dirt on the other side but that's not really what happens, the round stopped when it hit the other tank. this is the reason why when you there's two tanks next to each other you may see the round go thru but it doesnt damage the second tank. fly over the town when there are tanks shooting at buildings and you will see what I mean, you can clearly see the rounds go thru several buildings but only damage 1. I havent flown over towns with tanks lately but lots of have seen that before.
semp
You see the same thing when GVs are shooting up a town. The rounds you see coming out are not misses. They hit and destroy a building but you see the round continue till it hits the grouns somewhere way outside of town.
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I think you guys missed the tidbit that it's happening to the OP from HIS tank...not that he's observing a fight from the outside.
I constantly have shells fired from my tanks that go through the tank I'm shooting at and land behind them, doing no damage. Sometimes 4 or 5 in a row will do this giving them plenty of time to shoot me.
Perhaps it's a VSync issue...is it being forced on, or is it set to off (so you can see that you're getting 250fps)?
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If everyone does not have that happening then it has to be settings.
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We look at all tank films that claim damage bugs, and have not received any from you.
please send again to support@hitechcreations.com
HiTech
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We look at all tank films that claim damage bugs, and have not received any from you.
please send again to support@hitechcreations.com
HiTech
+1 on how to get a bug addressed.
:x of the forums, not so much.
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As of right now an M4(75) can pentrate a Panther from the nose, reality is almost no tank could.
Nonsense, plenty of tanks could. The A-19 122mm gun on the IS-2 (which is what we should have gotten instead of the historically insignificant Tiger II) could do so easily. So could a Firefly's 17 pounder. That's over 5,000 tanks between the two of them. Granted the 75mm of the M4 could rarely do so, but it was theoretically possible if it hit the shell trap under the gun mantlet at very close range.
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We look at all tank films that claim damage bugs, and have not received any from you.
please send again to support@hitechcreations.com
HiTech
Email sent
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http://www.kbismarck.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=3722
those who think tiger2 is insignificant should read the above link.
Not only tiger2 but tiger 1 too
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You see the same thing when GVs are shooting up a town. The rounds you see coming out are not misses. They hit and destroy a building but you see the round continue till it hits the grouns somewhere way outside of town.
yes you are correct shuffler but you do damage to the buildings but i have had this happen as well the round should hit the tanks and do damage but it does not it hit the ground like 2 feet behind them :headscratch:
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yes you are correct shuffler but you do damage to the buildings but i have had this happen as well the round should hit the tanks and do damage but it does not it hit the ground like 2 feet behind them :headscratch:
but all the others will see the round go thru the tank and keep going untill it hits dirt.
semp
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but all the others will see the round go thru the tank and keep going untill it hits dirt.
semp
Yes you do see other people's rounds go through anything they shoot until they hit the ground. This is a discusion about seeing your own round go through a tank and land behind it. Shouldn't be happening.
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I looked at the 2 films.
There is not any bugs with what damaging is intended or with what damage should be applied , but do to an issue we have with what happens after the bullet has bounced off of armor the display is strange.
The issue is what do we do with a bullet after it bounces off a surface.
This is best seen in your second film where the bullet bounces off top of the hull of the tank, (shows a small sprite) and then proceeds threw the turret visually.
Once a round shows the small sprite it is considered dead and at this point is only a visual effect that continues.
In the 1st film what happens is the bullet goes threw the skirt but then bounces off the hull. Once again it showed the small sprite. Only once we pentrate the skirt, the code that does the bounce no longer is applied and hence the round is dead, but visually continues on.
So if you see the small sprite the bullet did not penetrate and do damage.
We are considering doing some visual changes in the 2 cases described, but the outcome would be exactly the same, I.E. you would not do any damage.
HiTech
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Issue solved, ok... next up, Issue #35695: The disturbing lack of sheep.... GO!
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Issue solved, ok... next up, Issue #35695: The disturbing lack of sheep.... GO!
Thank gawd this has come up!!!!Im worried about em.
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I looked at the 2 films.
There is not any bugs with what damaging is intended or with what damage should be applied , but do to an issue we have with what happens after the bullet has bounced off of armor the display is strange.
The issue is what do we do with a bullet after it bounces off a surface.
This is best seen in your second film where the bullet bounces off top of the hull of the tank, (shows a small sprite) and then proceeds threw the turret visually.
Once a round shows the small sprite it is considered dead and at this point is only a visual effect that continues.
In the 1st film what happens is the bullet goes threw the skirt but then bounces off the hull. Once again it showed the small sprite. Only once we pentrate the skirt, the code that does the bounce no longer is applied and hence the round is dead, but visually continues on.
So if you see the small sprite the bullet did not penetrate and do damage.
We are considering doing some visual changes in the 2 cases described, but the outcome would be exactly the same, I.E. you would not do any damage.
HiTech
You can't beat that for service......... and from the top too.
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I looked at the 2 films.
There is not any bugs with what damaging is intended or with what damage should be applied , but do to an issue we have with what happens after the bullet has bounced off of armor the display is strange.
The issue is what do we do with a bullet after it bounces off a surface.
This is best seen in your second film where the bullet bounces off top of the hull of the tank, (shows a small sprite) and then proceeds threw the turret visually.
Once a round shows the small sprite it is considered dead and at this point is only a visual effect that continues.
In the 1st film what happens is the bullet goes threw the skirt but then bounces off the hull. Once again it showed the small sprite. Only once we pentrate the skirt, the code that does the bounce no longer is applied and hence the round is dead, but visually continues on.
So if you see the small sprite the bullet did not penetrate and do damage.
We are considering doing some visual changes in the 2 cases described, but the outcome would be exactly the same, I.E. you would not do any damage.
HiTech
I'm still kinda confused. How come some rounds bounce off and change directions visually but some just make a small hit sprite and keep going straight?
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Both rounds cause small hit sprites.
The difference is that in one case there are 2 pieces of armor. The Skirt, and the Hull. The case where it continued straight is when you penetrate the skirt, and then stop at the hull. You get the small sprite , but since you penetrated the first piece of armor , the code does not display the bounce off effect.
HiTech
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Both rounds cause small hit sprites.
The difference is that in one case there are 2 pieces of armor. The Skirt, and the Hull. The case where it continued straight is when you penetrate the skirt, and then stop at the hull. You get the small sprite , but since you penetrated the first piece of armor , the code does not display the bounce off effect.
HiTech
Ahh I gotcha. That makes more sense now.
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Nonsense, plenty of tanks could. The A-19 122mm gun on the IS-2 (which is what we should have gotten instead of the historically insignificant Tiger II) could do so easily. So could a Firefly's 17 pounder. That's over 5,000 tanks between the two of them. Granted the 75mm of the M4 could rarely do so, but it was theoretically possible if it hit the shell trap under the gun mantlet at very close range.
The two trump cards in WWII tank warfare are range and angle of impact, that is very much true in AH. Any round can be deflected by almost any legit tank armor if the angle of impact favors the armor. A 90° impact is ideal for the incoming round to perform at it's peak ability. On the flip side, 30mm of armor can deflect a Tiger's 88mm if the angle of impact is less than 23°. I hear lots of players screaming at the top of their lungs when their X tank's AP isn't defeating Y tank's armor. When I inquire about the range/facing of enemy hull and I hear "2000 yards" and "I dont know how he is facing", I think it makes a perfect case that A: people are over-generalizing in terms of the ability of AP rounds and B: they are not taking in to consideration the angle of impact.
Once upon a time I was in a Panzer IV H and I was shooting at a Panther who was camping the spawn. I think I hit him a total of 8 times within 800 yards and had no effect, I saw the rounds deflecting off the front armor. I eventually got him by upping a T34/76 and loading an HVAP and getting a side shot at about 600 yards. In other tank battles I've been able to destroy Panthers with little trouble at longer ranges (1200-1800 yards) while in the same tank. Why? The angle of impact favored me. At the longer ranges the round in arcing downward and is getting more of a perpendicular hit on the Panther's front armor. Keep in mind that the angle of impact is effected both horizontal and vertical.
FWIW- The Su-100 used a 100mm AP slug weighing 15kg and moving 880m/s to achieve what the Panther did with a 75mm projectile weighing 6.8kg and moving 935m/s. They essentially performed the same but the Panther had a a rate of fire advantage (as well as some other advantages).
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All good points Smokingloon, I too have heard many a gripe raised that you have so aptly just put to bed, but I think the issue that chaser is seeing and I know its an issue that I've seen is that there are no allowances given for kinetic energy in game with the explanation hitech laid out for us.
For example, and this dovetails perfectly with what you were saying ..... I have film of a hvap round hitting another t34 at fairly close range just under the turret (a place that I assume would have less armor thickness to it... a "sweet spot") and got the hit sprite that hitech referred to which tells me it hit just below the gun mantlet or the topside of the Hull, either way it's angle of attack was very low, meaning it should retain most of it's kinetic energy for its "high angle of impact" on the "sweet spot" that joins the turret and the hull. But by hitechs explanation that round is a "dead round" the second it hits the first surface irrespective of its angle of impact. It maybe impossible to program this into the game but its incredibly irritating to place a shot where to my way of thinking should be a sure kill shot only to have it do nothing more than kick up dust behind what should be a exploding tank.
Just my two cents.
~S~ Nishizwa
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Is it possible that the post above could have something to do with chaser's continued issues?? HTC would it be possible to program this into the game?
:salute. Nishizwa