Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: hlbly on November 26, 2012, 03:04:49 PM
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I am going to treat myself to a 5.1 sound system for my PC . Need to keep price around $120.00 . It will be used for mostly flying here , listening to music and a little movie watching . I know crap about sound systems . Any help appreciated .
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i think i might treat myself to a sound system for the pc :old:
Have you tried 5.1 headphones?
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i think i might treat myself to a sound system for the pc :old:
Have you tried 5.1 headphones?
Yeah for 120 bucks headphones are your _only_ option for getting any remotely decent sound. For a quality 5.1 setup the cost is tenfold and upwards, sky is the limit. You can't get even one speaker for 120 bucks basically.
Go for headphones or bump your pricerange to 1200 bucks for a starter level 5.1 hifi.
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Have you tried 5.1 headphones?
This.... I have a sennheiser headphone set and it sounds much better than most sound systems do... (within the same price range). My head phones are a couple of years old so I have no idea who makes the best deal today, but simple google search should solve that issue.
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Yeah for 120 bucks headphones are your _only_ option for getting any remotely decent sound. For a quality 5.1 setup the cost is tenfold and upwards, sky is the limit. You can't get even one speaker for 120 bucks basically.
Go for headphones or bump your pricerange to 1200 bucks for a starter level 5.1 hifi.
i'm sure that's true if you have the hearing of a bat...then you could hear a flea fart from 100 yards away but for most humans, ultra super duper pie in the sky isn't necessary. and there is no such thing as actual 5.1 headphones. sound quality has as much to do with what is driving the speakers as it does the speakers themselves. unless you're running a professional sound board in your computer, a typical computer sound card isn't going to do what a component stereo system will.
Hlbly is your computer setup where you can take full advantage of 5.1 surround sound? i mean area and placement. have to take into consideration that there will be wires running everywhere.
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/setup/connection-guide/home-theater-speaker-guide/index.html (http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/setup/connection-guide/home-theater-speaker-guide/index.html)
you could check out logitech g51, creative t6160 or maybe the altec lansing fx5051 sets.
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I got my 7.1 surround system for free off freecycle - check it in your area, all kinds of cool stuff comes up. Works great. The house rumbles when I crank up the bass and shove the throttle forward.
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Creative 7.1 Audigy 2zs is what i use
found on ebay for about 20 to 60 bucks
As far as headphones depends on your taste personally im running these .
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7099988&CatId=7214 (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7099988&CatId=7214)
were 70 now 19 on clearance sound great.
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Yeah gyrene it is a rectangular room , with the the front and rear in the corners and sub up against an outside wall . I am using a cheap WalMart surround sound system with decent speakers for the satellites and center speaker . It is not true surround though . It has a 3.5 mm < I think> jack to two RCA's . I want to get a system where you use the three connections front ,rear, and bass/center . You are dead on right about hearing . I was Indirect Fire Support for the first 12 years of my career . I have some hearing loss . I am also a single dad with a two year old and cutting myself off from the world around m,e like headphones do is not an option . I know I will not be getting a Bose system for that price . I don't need one for my computer either . The sound I get out of my no name brand system with Kenwood speakers is not bad . It is 10 years old and was designed to be hooked up to a TV or VCR .
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I don't need one for my computer either .
wait, am i misreading something somewhere?
I am going to treat myself to a 5.1 sound system for my PC . Need to keep price around $120.00 . It will be used for mostly flying here , listening to music and a little movie watching . I know crap about sound systems . Any help appreciated .
are you looking for a 5.1 speaker setup for the computer or for the television?
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My bad gyrene . I meant I don't need a "Bose" system for my computer . I have one <entry level> in my front room . I do need some type of a budget system however . I am going to check those three out that you suggested when I go home . This puter I am on drives me crazy !
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I'm a big fan of Grado headphones, they start around $70 and they are an open design on the back so they don't completely back out the outside world. GREAT bang for the buck, especially for music. They are only two channel however.
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I have the Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 system. Worth every penny. :rock
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I'm a big fan of Grado headphones, they start around $70 and they are an open design on the back so they don't completely back out the outside world. GREAT bang for the buck, especially for music. They are only two channel however.
While Grado's are great (I love my Sr225i) they can be pretty uncomfortable after long periods of time
Sennheisers I think are usually highly recommended for gaming because they have a pretty big soudstage
And you hear in two channels so as far as headphones go it doesn't matter
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hilbly go to best buy the have a good 5.1 set for about 120 bucks. and if you dont like it you can take it back. I have used mine for about 5 years now.
midway
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i'm sure that's true if you have the hearing of a bat...then you could hear a flea fart from 100 yards away but for most humans, ultra super duper pie in the sky isn't necessary. and there is no such thing as actual 5.1 headphones. sound quality has as much to do with what is driving the speakers as it does the speakers themselves. unless you're running a professional sound board in your computer, a typical computer sound card isn't going to do what a component stereo system will.
Hlbly is your computer setup where you can take full advantage of 5.1 surround sound? i mean area and placement. have to take into consideration that there will be wires running everywhere.
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/setup/connection-guide/home-theater-speaker-guide/index.html (http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/setup/connection-guide/home-theater-speaker-guide/index.html)
you could check out logitech g51, creative t6160 or maybe the altec lansing fx5051 sets.
Heh, this is where you're wrong. Even the cheapest amp setup will produce about 100x cleaner sound than any conventional speaker can ever reproduce. Speakers induce phase distortion (most speakers even use passive crossovers which by themselves cause problems as the impedance curve of the speaker changes the way passive crossover works and 2nd level Butterworth typically used in speakers reverses phase by 180°) this basically means that the speaker designer has to reverse the polarity to the tweeter, compensate for acoustic difference between speaker element distances meaning delay circuits which then again cause more problems... and field radiation problems (audio energy doesn't necessarily spread evenly to the room at all sound frequencies, causing blurred or harsh sound even if measured responses are flat looking), acoustic reflections (the main reason for audio problems usually, extrapolated by field radiation problems) and just pure old distortion and power compression created in the speaker elements due to their analog operation. The speaker box in itself causes acoustic problems. A square box is almost the worst speaker design you can use, but it's used by default because a square box is cheapest to produce :) An optimal shape for a conventional speaker refraction wise would be a totally round enclosure. Internally a round enclosure is not optimal though but that's another discussion there.
If you look at the near field response of a typical speaker you'll notice the frequency response has very harsh spikes in the upper frequency and wider alterations in the lower frequency range. The spikes are introduced by floor reflection and early wall reflections. When direct sound from the speaker mixes with reflected sound from close by surfaces, mixed polarity sound get combined and as some may know, if you add reversed polarity sounds together the end result is silence. This means when you mix reflected sound to the direct sound, you get big dips in some frequencies and double boost to others. The reflected sound arrives to the ear with such low delay that the brain doesn't handle it as echo, it gets just blurred in. These spikes get multiplied when listening outside near-field in a normal room for this reason and this is why you should always place your speakers 2-3ft from any nearby wall whenever possible and small speakers should be raised to stands. Even the cheapest amp can produce sound with very little distortion and near flat frequency response - then the 1000 dollar speaker will introduce 100-1000x worse room response from that sound. That is why speakers are THE most important component in the whole setup, theyre the most difficult and expensive component to produce.
Best sound can be achieved with electrostatic panels combined with cardioid subwoofers which bring directivity to bass range at the cost of size and cost. Using electrostatic panels you get extremely close to the original sound produced by the amp even when listening from a regular distance and in a regular room. This is never the case with conventional boxed speakers.
Headphones do not have any of the room based problems, which is why decent sound can be achieved with a ridiculously simple hardware. The speaker directly modulates the air in the ear canal which makes bass response flat even with a miniature speaker element (same effect happens in a car below 80hz by the way).
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If you dont really need surround sound I'd recommend www.audioengineusa.com/Audioengine-A2 for desktop speakers, incredible sound for the size :aok
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I read Mr Ripley article and had to lie down in a dark room for a bit :old:
Headphones are best all round then for the money :old:
Speakers seem a bit complicated after reading article :cry
What are your views on Bandsaws against Tablesaws MrRiply?
I have a tablesaw which I have rarley used, bandsaw is used on a regular basis :)
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I read Mr Ripley article and had to lie down in a dark room for a bit :old:
Headphones are best all round then for the money :old:
Speakers seem a bit complicated after reading article :cry
What are your views on Bandsaws against Tablesaws MrRiply?
I have a tablesaw which I have rarley used, bandsaw is used on a regular basis :)
I'd say both have their uses :)
I used to build speakers as a hobby so I've studied quite a lot about the subject.
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Forum blurp.. double post.
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Anyone got any opinion ? Logitech X-540 5.1 Speaker System .
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G35 5.1 headphones are good
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G35 5.1 headphones are good
I am also a single dad with a two year old and cutting myself off from the world around m,e like headphones do is not an option .
just pointing out the issue of headphones (regardless of quality) for Hlbly...
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yes :)
I am going to get some 5.1 speakers, problem is my trackir pro clip pro
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Anyone got any opinion ? Logitech X-540 5.1 Speaker System .
those will give you a pretty decent sound. I have their prior system it was good for 120 bucks.
now let them argue over which headset is better even though you didnt ask about it.
midway
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:rofl
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Anyone got any opinion ? Logitech X-540 5.1 Speaker System .
Spinnich uses it and I use the earlier model X-530 and they are both fine. His settings make them sound a bit weird but the quality is perfectly fine. Obviously they are no 'professional 5.1 extra boosting sound master of the gods....system' but they sound fine for any normal sensible human and work just fine for their price. Not sure how easy they are to find anymore, I know Logitech has since upgraded to the 'Z' line of speakers and it can make finding the 'X' line a little hard to find.
They are also durable in case that's a concern. I know I've dropped my surround speakers countless times from various heights (up to 5') and had no issue with sound loss.
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I suggest you remove the 'audiophile' part from the title if you think Logitech and 120 bucks qualifies! :t
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I'll sell you my DBX soundfield1 set for 300 bucks. Two speakers and the controller with plenty of monstercable. You need at least 100 watts to drive them properly.
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I suggest you remove the 'audiophile' part from the title if you think Logitech and 120 bucks qualifies! :t
almost like saying those who dont have a gf dont know anything about sex.
midway
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Monster cable? No better than hotwired coat-hangers. They also seem to be overly litigious, and evidently engage in false advertising too.
http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/blue-jeans-strikes-back
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_Cable_Products
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Anyone got any opinion ? Logitech X-540 5.1 Speaker System .
Have you looked at any of Creative labs speakers? they have a 5.1 system,T160/1600 that you might want to compare with the logitech system.
Recently,I've been considering getting a 5.1 for my comp but if I was going to listen to music I'd have to turn on my antique Castle speakers and Integra amp! :aok
:salute
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Monster cable? No better than hotwired coat-hangers. They also seem to be overly litigious, and evidently engage in false advertising too.
http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/blue-jeans-strikes-back
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_Cable_Products
Maybe so but thats what they came with. You can always put your own wire on it. The speakers are incredible. I don't have the room for them anymore.
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almost like saying those who dont have a gf dont know anything about sex.
midway
No, it's like saying those who think your left hand qualifies for a lover and right hand for a girlfriend, know nothing about sex.
You can't get even 1 element for a proper speaker for 120 bucks.
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No, it's like saying those who think your left hand qualifies for a lover and right hand for a girlfriend, know nothing about sex.
You can't get even 1 element for a proper speaker for 120 bucks.
I get it . Let it go . I was not referring to myself as an audiophile .
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No, it's like saying those who think your left hand qualifies for a lover and right hand for a girlfriend, know nothing about sex.
You can't get even 1 element for a proper speaker for 120 bucks.
How much relevent experience is necessary before you can say who is an "audiophile" and who is not?
There must be some sort of formula.
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How much relevent experience is necessary before you can say who is an "audiophile" and who is not?
There must be some sort of formula.
You don't need experience, all you need is ability to hear. Some people will never get the difference and for some a good system is a real eye opener. When I visited my first high-end expo I suddenly realized how crappy my own hi-fi really sounded in comparison. From there it was a constant quest for improvement untill some time around 2000 I finally found I could compare my home setup to the ones at the high-end expo. Of course there was still room for improvement but I'm not going to invest 100 000 dollars to audio. By that time I had a full range actively filtered electrostatic speaker setup coupled with a quality subwoofer.
When you listen to music using an average setup like mine was then, you can get details from music you could never imagine existed on the records. You start to spot badly made recordings from the good ones. It may be even surprising sometimes, there were several old records that sounded absolutely horrible on a regular setup but when played through ESL:s the sound 'opened up'. The recordings were made with a simplistic microphone setup in a real space. If you compare that to an artificial studio recording the difference is like night and day. The previous example makes you feel like you're sitting literally in the same room with the performers and the size of the room may be bigger or smaller than your actual room size :) The latter example just sounds technical and clean but dull and void of life usually.
In any case it should be clear to anyone who has spent time with audio that you can't get anything even resembling a good 5.1 setup for 120 bucks or from Logitech for that matter. Logitechs may be enough for games if you're not picky but I'd still opt for headphones instead.
You have to understand that if one asks advice from 'audiophiles' you can assume standards are a bit higher than your average plastic boom-box.
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No, it's like saying those who think your left hand qualifies for a lover and right hand for a girlfriend, know nothing about sex.
You can't get even 1 element for a proper speaker for 120 bucks.
see that's where you go wrong. what is proper to somebody is not proper to others. I spent 120 bucks in a set of speakers after listening to some that would cost many times that. I couldnt hear the difference. perhaps I have bad hearing, maybe I am tone deaf, but for sure I got a great system for 120 bucks. and If I am happy then that's all that matters.
midway
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see that's where you go wrong. what is proper to somebody is not proper to others. I spent 120 bucks in a set of speakers after listening to some that would cost many times that. I couldnt hear the difference. perhaps I have bad hearing, maybe I am tone deaf, but for sure I got a great system for 120 bucks. and If I am happy then that's all that matters.
midway
Exactly. People who can't hear the difference are not audiophiles per definition. Consider yourself lucky, you save an awful lot of money.
This is exactly why I made the comparison to self pleasurer and a hustler. Someone who self pleasures and doesn't even want a woman, can't understand the depth and levels of pleasure a connoisseur in women gets from them.
Some people prefer beer over fine wine. They're also very lucky and save tons of money. If you consider missing out of one of the great pleasures in life lucky - but I'm sure everyone has their own sources of enjoyment.
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When putting together audio equipment, you can sometimes end up with something that sounds sub-par even with all the research and knowledge in the world while some yahoo tosses together a few random Best Buy components and stumbles upon superior sound.
Nothing replaces auditioning the equipment in person.
I think I re-ribboned my first magneplanar in 1994 or so.
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@buzzard7 - no disrespect on what your speakers came with. I made the completely invalid assumption that everyone had at least heard of Monster.
But for those who haven't, they sell audio cables. They make a lot of advertising claims about how their wires make your system sound and have sued many many people for many reasons, all of which seem totally spurious. I have seen no convincing evidence that their cables actually do anything to improve the sound. My own belief is they're basically an aggressive marketing company, long on the legal department but short on real R+D.
The underlying reality of audio experience is that the best human hearing tops out around 20Khz (in children). In adults it's markedly lower (mine is 12Khz, not bad for my age). The Nyquist criterion states that to properly sample a signal, you need a sample frequency equal to twice the highest frequency of interest - hence 44Khz for CDs. In electronics terms, this is not very high at all (your microprocessor is running about 100,000 times faster, just for example) any modern amp will have a perfectly flat response curve that goes far higher than this. Further, due to the non-linear response curve of the ear, ADDING noise can increase the detection threshold for faint signals, which in turn increases the perceived loudness and influences the perceived quality of the sound.
Hence some people prefer vinyl, some people prefer tube amps, some people swear by this system or that system. However none of this makes "different" into "better" and "more expensive" is so vastly different from "better" that it isn't funny. Room interactions are well over half of the sound quality puzzle, and most people don't even know those pieces exist (and there's a limited amount you can do about it unless you want to build your own audio booth)
You need...
A decent signal. The main issue for a soundcard is keeping out transients, but most do this OK.
A decent amplifier of sufficient power to run your speakers. Anything built in the last 30 years will have a flat response curve.
Decent speakers of sufficient power to usefully use your amp. You need to be able to handle the power at each frequency.
That's all. Having fancy high end gear (cables included) is like having a fancy high end car. It looks cool, but when you're commuting in traffic, is all that top end performance actually doing anything for you?
Other than attracting babes, I mean.
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The DBX speakers were expensive when new. I didn't pay for them they were a gift. Just two speakers and a controller create nearly the same environment as a system that uses at least 5 speakers and a sub. They need 8 feet between them and certain spacing from hard objects on the other 3 sides. Compare them to older Bose speakers. I loved them. This house does not have the room to set them up properly. They ran great on my Pioneer 100 watt receiver. They originally had a 300 watt amp driving them but it dropped a channel.
Never used them to attract babes. Just love listening to music of almost any kind.
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Exactly. People who can't hear the difference are not audiophiles per definition. Consider yourself lucky, you save an awful lot of money.
This is exactly why I made the comparison to self pleasurer and a hustler. Someone who self pleasures and doesn't even want a woman, can't understand the depth and levels of pleasure a connoisseur in women gets from them.
Some people prefer beer over fine wine. They're also very lucky and save tons of money. If you consider missing out of one of the great pleasures in life lucky - but I'm sure everyone has their own sources of enjoyment.
I have had fine wine, it tastes like crap. spending more than what your computer is worth getting a sound system is a waste of money. there has been many threads about this same issue. you love to only concentrate on one word "audiophiles" and really love to point out the use of words. but in reality somebody as smart and knowledgeable as you should automatically know what he means.
trying to embarrassed somebody because he uses a word and chooses to spend 120 bucks on a set of speakers is stupid. it makes you look snobbish. then again this is not the first time that this has been pointed out to you.
midway
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You don't need experience, all you need is ability to hear. Some people will never get the difference and for some a good system is a real eye opener. When I visited my first high-end expo I suddenly realized how crappy my own hi-fi really sounded in comparison. From there it was a constant quest for improvement untill some time around 2000 I finally found I could compare my home setup to the ones at the high-end expo. Of course there was still room for improvement but I'm not going to invest 100 000 dollars to audio. By that time I had a full range actively filtered electrostatic speaker setup coupled with a quality subwoofer.
When you listen to music using an average setup like mine was then, you can get details from music you could never imagine existed on the records. You start to spot badly made recordings from the good ones. It may be even surprising sometimes, there were several old records that sounded absolutely horrible on a regular setup but when played through ESL:s the sound 'opened up'. The recordings were made with a simplistic microphone setup in a real space. If you compare that to an artificial studio recording the difference is like night and day. The previous example makes you feel like you're sitting literally in the same room with the performers and the size of the room may be bigger or smaller than your actual room size :) The latter example just sounds technical and clean but dull and void of life usually.
In any case it should be clear to anyone who has spent time with audio that you can't get anything even resembling a good 5.1 setup for 120 bucks or from Logitech for that matter. Logitechs may be enough for games if you're not picky but I'd still opt for headphones instead.
You have to understand that if one asks advice from 'audiophiles' you can assume standards are a bit higher than your average plastic boom-box.
I agree wholeheartedly with you Ripley,I know the owner of a highend audio store and he'd gladdly outfit your listening room with a couple hundred grand worth of equipment!
However it come to a point were if you want to hear a difference you must spend 10's of thousands of dollars to actually "hear" a difference. Kind of like cars,a 40 grand Z car is pretty good but you'd need a GTS Porche to notice a real difference.
Now some will argue about the cars and the sound systems claiming they can notice a difference but thats human nature!
BTW,never was a fan of the magnaplaners,had a set for a week or two and traded them for a set of EV home speakers. I'd rather listen to a set of antique Crowns over and electrostatics and the best subs! Just my nature!..... :rofl I like old tube amps for the "feel" something about that background hum that makes music seem real.
:salute
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This is why I focus on my headphones. My stereo is intensely mediocre. Way too expensive
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I am also a single dad with a two year old and cutting myself off from the world around m,e like headphones do is not an option . I know I will not be getting a Bose system for that price.
Hlbly
The best thing I ever did was get the Sennheiser PC360 headphones.....http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-PC-360-Headset-Gaming/dp/B003DA4D2U
They are what is termed an open headphone and you can hear the outside world around you while you listen to music. They have great range and are an awesome gaming setup while also allowing others around you to hear the television, music, etc... while you play. They are all I have on my main work from home office/gaming rig and while working I can listen to music and listen to speakerphone conversations at the same time without taking the headphones off.
Hope this helps you out some.
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I agree wholeheartedly with you Ripley,I know the owner of a highend audio store and he'd gladdly outfit your listening room with a couple hundred grand worth of equipment!
However it come to a point were if you want to hear a difference you must spend 10's of thousands of dollars to actually "hear" a difference. Kind of like cars,a 40 grand Z car is pretty good but you'd need a GTS Porche to notice a real difference.
Now some will argue about the cars and the sound systems claiming they can notice a difference but thats human nature!
BTW,never was a fan of the magnaplaners,had a set for a week or two and traded them for a set of EV home speakers. I'd rather listen to a set of antique Crowns over and electrostatics and the best subs! Just my nature!..... :rofl I like old tube amps for the "feel" something about that background hum that makes music seem real.
:salute
I've never been a fan of magneplanars either. While they provide excellent imaging they lack the openness and clarity of a good ESL. I can't stand passive ESL setups either, an ESL must be actively filtered in order to achieve a proper end result. They need a notch filter or they will sound overbright.
The problem with planar speakers is that most people do not position them properly. They need in excess of 50cm of space to the back wall and hairpin positioning.
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I have had fine wine, it tastes like crap. spending more than what your computer is worth getting a sound system is a waste of money. there has been many threads about this same issue. you love to only concentrate on one word "audiophiles" and really love to point out the use of words. but in reality somebody as smart and knowledgeable as you should automatically know what he means.
trying to embarrassed somebody because he uses a word and chooses to spend 120 bucks on a set of speakers is stupid. it makes you look snobbish. then again this is not the first time that this has been pointed out to you.
I can assure you fine wine does not taste like crap. Maybe the bottle you tried was tainted?
Audiophiles ARE snobs when it comes to audio, this is what you have to understand :) I would not probably spend much more than 120 bucks on computer speakers either, but I'd never venture off saying they would produce anywhere near a good sound. In fact I know a 120 dollar setup will sound so horrible that I choose to wear headphones when gaming. Much better bang for buck and takes less space.
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I've never been a fan of magneplanars either. While they provide excellent imaging they lack the openness and clarity of a good ESL. I can't stand passive ESL setups either, an ESL must be actively filtered in order to achieve a proper end result. They need a notch filter or they will sound overbright.
The problem with planar speakers is that most people do not position them properly. They need in excess of 50cm of space to the back wall and hairpin positioning.
Not familar with a notch filter but I understand how to setup the planars,I was lucky enough to have a room that suited them. Subs were rather difficult to find back then and I felt the planars really lacked any bottom end.
I went and traded them in on a more expensive set of EV's,the interface series that came with a frequency slope equalizer as part of the package. IIRC the could output 108db with 10db instantanious peaks! Well that what they could do with the techniques amp I had at the time.
:salute
PS: had a buddy with a Tangent amp that would rock those EV's.... :devil
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Imagine you have a graphic equalizer. Set all the little frequency sliders to the middle. That's a flat frequency response curve. Now slide one of the sliders to the bottom. Now you've put a notch in the response curve, so you've got a notch filter on the go.
Basically you'd use a notch filter if you've got a problem with a particular frequency - room resonance, speaker nodes, a 60hz harmonic, or maybe you just don't like A#.
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Not familar with a notch filter but I understand how to setup the planars,I was lucky enough to have a room that suited them. Subs were rather difficult to find back then and I felt the planars really lacked any bottom end.
I went and traded them in on a more expensive set of EV's,the interface series that came with a frequency slope equalizer as part of the package. IIRC the could output 108db with 10db instantanious peaks! Well that what they could do with the techniques amp I had at the time.
:salute
PS: had a buddy with a Tangent amp that would rock those EV's.... :devil
Actually planars (when they're large enough, around 2mx0,5m like mine) produce good amount of bass and what comes out is very clean. You really hear the detail in the bass. The only thing that lacks is the heavyest punch that slams the body. For that I have my garden PA with 2,5KW amp and a 18" horn loaded bass :) I can literally make my tools drop from the shed walls just by turning up the bass.
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Imagine you have a graphic equalizer. Set all the little frequency sliders to the middle. That's a flat frequency response curve. Now slide one of the sliders to the bottom. Now you've put a notch in the response curve, so you've got a notch filter on the go.
Basically you'd use a notch filter if you've got a problem with a particular frequency - room resonance, speaker nodes, a 60hz harmonic, or maybe you just don't like A#.
I actually confused the notch filter and shelving equalizer which both are usually required for ESLs. The notch filter is used to dampen the large resonance peak of the membrane and a shelving equalizer is used to flatten out the high end. Due to dipole cancellation the ESLs frequency response is rising towards high frequencies. But because ESLs are highly directive and most sound arriving to the listening post is direct sound, it doesn't get mixed up to room reflections like a regular speaker. Therefore the sound will be overbright unless the natural response is shaped more like the power response (overall radiated sound in the room) of a conventional speaker. A shelving equalizer will do that - the tricky thing though is that this is usually only found in the high-end active amplified models. Meaning 4-5 zeros in the price tag.
If you've heard an ESL from starter level, it's been passively filtered. It may sound excellent, but it can't hold a candle to an actively filtered one.
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I actually confused the notch filter and shelving equalizer which both are usually required for ESLs. The notch filter is used to dampen the large resonance peak of the membrane and a shelving equalizer is used to flatten out the high end. Due to dipole cancellation the ESLs frequency response is rising towards high frequencies. But because ESLs are highly directive and most sound arriving to the listening post is direct sound, it doesn't get mixed up to room reflections like a regular speaker. Therefore the sound will be overbright unless the natural response is shaped more like the power response (overall radiated sound in the room) of a conventional speaker. A shelving equalizer will do that - the tricky thing though is that this is usually only found in the high-end active amplified models. Meaning 4-5 zeros in the price tag.
If you've heard an ESL from starter level, it's been passively filtered. It may sound excellent, but it can't hold a candle to an actively filtered one.
Interesting, the EV's I had came with a frequency slope equalizer and it was 10k hz,IIRC,it had 3 setting -3db -6db and -9db,this was to help with as you say overly bright sound.
What ESL panels do you have? I've heard a couple of highend units before,as I said I know a guy that only sells "audiophille" equipment. I helped him with a couple of rooms,supplied the cabinets to "build in" a few different theater rooms.
Now this was going back about 20 years so many things have changed but I pop in once in awhile to try and keep up.... :rofl Jus need to leave the wallet at home when I do!
:salute
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Interesting, the EV's I had came with a frequency slope equalizer and it was 10k hz,IIRC,it had 3 setting -3db -6db and -9db,this was to help with as you say overly bright sound.
What ESL panels do you have? I've heard a couple of highend units before,as I said I know a guy that only sells "audiophille" equipment. I helped him with a couple of rooms,supplied the cabinets to "build in" a few different theater rooms.
Now this was going back about 20 years so many things have changed but I pop in once in awhile to try and keep up.... :rofl Jus need to leave the wallet at home when I do!
:salute
I sold my ESLs away when my first kid was born. I couldn't risk him tripping the tall speaker or getting zapped from the 7-8 kV audio voltages while playing them. Now I have a much bigger property, kids are older and a DIY project in my garage that's been sitting waiting to be done for 5 years. I'm currently so busy with my business that I don't have time for hobbies anymore. But some day I'm going to finish the panels and I'm going to build a dedicated audio room to the external building in front of my house. I bought part of the leftover stock from an ESL manufacturer that went bankrupt so it's going to be pretty much straightforward assembly. I've done and sold several DIY ESLs before so it's nothing new to me.
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I have a pair of these and a Q9c driven by a Yamaha Receiver.
(http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2001/images/kef_q15point2.jpg)
They are the perfect size speaker for my room and damn are they "warm".
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I sold my ESLs away when my first kid was born. I couldn't risk him tripping the tall speaker or getting zapped from the 7-8 kV audio voltages while playing them. Now I have a much bigger property, kids are older and a DIY project in my garage that's been sitting waiting to be done for 5 years. I'm currently so busy with my business that I don't have time for hobbies anymore. But some day I'm going to finish the panels and I'm going to build a dedicated audio room to the external building in front of my house. I bought part of the leftover stock from an ESL manufacturer that went bankrupt so it's going to be pretty much straightforward assembly. I've done and sold several DIY ESLs before so it's nothing new to me.
Ripley, I hear you there about the kids,once my son was born I got rid of most my equipment. I too was worried but about his hearing and little fingers make short work of busting drivers.
Having replaced 1 of the mids in the EV's under warranty I wasnt about to do that without warranty....blasted driver had $175 price tag!
Jay what make are they? I'm looking to find something to match up with my Castles to bodge together a 5.1 for the mancave.
:salute
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Ripley, I hear you there about the kids,once my son was born I got rid of most my equipment. I too was worried but about his hearing and little fingers make short work of busting drivers.
Having replaced 1 of the mids in the EV's under warranty I wasnt about to do that without warranty....blasted driver had $175 price tag!
Jay what make are they? I'm looking to find something to match up with my Castles to bodge together a 5.1 for the mancave.
:salute
KEF. The line has been updated to these: http://www.kef.com/html/us/showroom/hi-fi_series/q_series/fact_sheets/Bookshelf/Q300/index.html (http://www.kef.com/html/us/showroom/hi-fi_series/q_series/fact_sheets/Bookshelf/Q300/index.html)
You owe yourself an audition to these. Simply amazing. :rock
I've had the cops called on me in the past
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KEF. The line has been updated to these: http://www.kef.com/html/us/showroom/hi-fi_series/q_series/fact_sheets/Bookshelf/Q300/index.html (http://www.kef.com/html/us/showroom/hi-fi_series/q_series/fact_sheets/Bookshelf/Q300/index.html)
You owe yourself an audition to these. Simply amazing. :rock
I've had the cops called on me in the past
Thx Mash,
I havent heard the latest offerings from KEF but I knew a couple of guys who had them. Infact the guy with the tangent amps had the reference series,cant remember the model number.
Been eyeing some Energy and Klipsch,the Energy speakers come close to matching my Castles but the Klipsch arent even close. BTW Castle speakers were made by the Worfdale group,later to be bought out and turn into some Japanese brand.
I will go and give the KEF's a listen!
:salute
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Just out of curiosity, you're not confusing Electro Voice brand with electrostatic speakers?
EV speakers:
(http://www.thestackers.com/resources/EV%20speakers.jpg)
Electrostatic speakers:
(http://www.curtpalme.com/images/ESL05_setup2_400.jpg)
(http://www.curtpalme.com/images/ESL05_detail400.jpg)
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Those look like ESL Customs.
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The ones I build are pretty much the same except I don't do the curved membrane. I prefer the flat surface - curve is a compromise between wider radiation and accuracy.
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Wow, casually reading this thread, I just came up with the ultimate speaker concept.
To the patent office!
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Best to research whether it's possible to market and produce your idea before going to the patent office.
Checking whether your idea is stepping on someone else's patent is a good idea but actually going for a patent might end up being an unnecessary expense.
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LOL! Yes, thanks icepac. I actually have done R+D work and know the process well. My perhaps-too-subtle humour is an inverse take on the long and winding road between concept and patent, and the longer still road between patent and product.
I can't tell you how long the road between product and me buying a refurbed Sukhoi-27 is, because I haven't gone down it yet, but hope continues to spring eternal.
Anyone want to VC a really innovative speaker design?
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Just out of curiosity, you're not confusing Electro Voice brand with electrostatic speakers?
EV speakers:
(http://www.thestackers.com/resources/EV%20speakers.jpg)
Electrostatic speakers:
(http://www.curtpalme.com/images/ESL05_setup2_400.jpg)
(http://www.curtpalme.com/images/ESL05_detail400.jpg)
:rofl :rofl :rofl
I understand why you might have asked that but it cracked me up when I read it! :aok
Yes I had a set of EV home units,their interface series the D models,you posted a pic of their road units,more for commercial use.
As I said I had a set of Magnaplaners for exactly 2 weeks then took them back and replaced them with the EVs.
Id like to hear those ESL but I dont think Id want something that took up so much floor space.
I suppose if you had the proper room it wouldnt be an issue. Nice looking nonetheless!
:salute
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I built a guitar sustainer in 1981 and, by the time I did all the legwork for a patent, I was exhausted and was told by everybody in the industry (including fernandes and tom sholz) that it wasn't marketable.
Many years later, I am using a Fernandes product based on my idea rather than using my own because they had the corporate might to push something I lacked the horsepower or contacts to do.
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:rofl :rofl :rofl
I understand why you might have asked that but it cracked me up when I read it! :aok
Yes I had a set of EV home units,their interface series the D models,you posted a pic of their road units,more for commercial use.
As I said I had a set of Magnaplaners for exactly 2 weeks then took them back and replaced them with the EVs.
Id like to hear those ESL but I dont think Id want something that took up so much floor space.
I suppose if you had the proper room it wouldnt be an issue. Nice looking nonetheless!
:salute
Yes the ESLs require a LOT of space. You need to place them far away from the back wall too (as with any speaker, but more so). But the end result makes up for it. I still remember how magical it felt when I heard a proper ESL for the first time. I was instantly sold for life.
Now during these years that I haven't had ESLs I already forgot how they sound. Then I visited my uncle and he played some music through a set of ESLs I had built for him 15 years ago and the burn started again.. must... have... :D
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@icepac. Yep.