Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Gman on November 27, 2012, 04:22:26 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kPAVv837seA#at=11
Try to ignore the dirka allah mohamed ackbar cries which are typical of these videos, or better yet do what I do, watch it on mute.
Anyhow, very interesting to see this helo take what looks like a direct hit, or at least a fused hit with most of the warhead fusing straight into the target. A few seconds later, it shows the same helo flying away trailing some smoke. I guess the warhead missed the rotors, the obvious and easiest thing to hit to bring a helo down. Very lucky helicopter crew.
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Nice. Another video linked to on the page shows the same helo making a controlled landing, probably behind friendly lines.
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Wonder what they are saying when it just flies off.
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Nice. Another video linked to on the page shows the same helo making a controlled landing, probably behind friendly lines.
More like a controlled crash landing.
ack-ack
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Yeah. Might have been autorotation at that point.
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The transmissions on those things are super over built, I'd venture to say that it was able to get away.
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I'm still really impressed, and surprised even that it made it out ok. Watching in slow motion, it sure looks like the weapon did what it should, the explosion is HUGE in still frame, with a lot of debris coming off too, yet it still flew off. I've seen videos of Mi24's taking Stinger hits, and they just blew apart, or had a lot of the rotors chopped off and fell like stones. Like I said, very lucky crew, they should say some extra "hail Allahs" tonight, and buy some of those 500$ million power ball tickets, this being their lucky day/week.
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:rofl
Holy crap the chopper took a big hit. The allah snackbars quiet down a bit once they realize its flying away.
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The transmissions on those things are super over built, I'd venture to say that it was able to get away.
:rofl
Holy crap the chopper took a big hit. The allah snackbars quiet down a bit once they realize its flying away.
It didn't fly away, it crash landed not far from where it was hit and it looked like it came down in FSA territory. From the video of the crash landing, it looked like it was a very, very hard landing with what appeared to be a small explosion and then a black smoke plume.
Like I said, very lucky crew, they should say some extra "hail Allahs" tonight, and buy some of those 500$ million power ball tickets, this being their lucky day/week.
They should save their money as it wasn't their lucky day. I don't think being shot down and if they survived the crash landing, being taken prisoner by the rebels sure wouldn't be considerd lucky.
ack-ack
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Oh yay. Yet another video of the horribly screwed up region in the world where a missile hits a flying vehicle and it goes down.
Anything new over there yet?
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snackbar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I'm still really impressed, and surprised even that it made it out ok. Watching in slow motion, it sure looks like the weapon did what it should, the explosion is HUGE in still frame, with a lot of debris coming off too, yet it still flew off. I've seen videos of Mi24's taking Stinger hits, and they just blew apart, or had a lot of the rotors chopped off and fell like stones. Like I said, very lucky crew, they should say some extra "hail Allahs" tonight, and buy some of those 500$ million power ball tickets, this being their lucky day/week.
I wouldn't go as far to say they made it out, nevermind OK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tgo1g1DpcA
snackbar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:aok :rofl
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I'm still really impressed, and surprised even that it made it out ok. Watching in slow motion, it sure looks like the weapon did what it should, the explosion is HUGE in still frame, with a lot of debris coming off too, yet it still flew off. I've seen videos of Mi24's taking Stinger hits, and they just blew apart, or had a lot of the rotors chopped off and fell like stones. Like I said, very lucky crew, they should say some extra "hail Allahs" tonight, and buy some of those 500$ million power ball tickets, this being their lucky day/week.
The Mi-24 and Mi-8/17 share most of the power-train, so this is one lucky crew. If they survived...
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Hah, ACk ACK is right, I didn't see that other video of them crash landing until just now. Oh well, still beats being blown to bits, but not by much if they were captured I guess.
Either way, pretty impressive/lucky/strange that it didn't just blow apart in the air, as I said before about the MI24/Stinger hits...do a search for some of those videos, those helos fared far less well than this one did. Luck of the draw I guess when it comes to air to air missiles, much like everything else I suppose.
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I bet the folks on that chopper crapped their pants.
The "crash landing" looked survivable.
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The "crash landing" looked survivable.
Before or after the fireball?
ack-ack
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Before or after the fireball?
ack-ack
stranger things happen
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I've never seen footage of a real Hind falling apart in the air after a SAM hit. There are a number of videos of other helicopters dressed up to look like hinds blowing up in the air; unfortunately these videos have been used in TV documentaries too.
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I forgot to press mute :cry
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The first and second video on this forum are not of the same helicopter,, the first one is still flying 20 seconds after the hit and changes course at least once,, the second one is hit and hits the ground 16 seconds later,, pretty hard!,
I didn't find any crash landing videos of the first chopper?
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Gsholz Google stinger and mi24. There is tons of combat footage of mi24s being shot down that isn't just Hollywood make believe. The third result down shows a mi24 that is chopped into two pieces, which is how I define blown apart. The little documentary on utube about the stinger in Afghanistan shows many examples, but the interviews with the soviet pilots is more telling, and he specifically speaks about the destruction of the mi24s he saw struck by manpads. Some obviously survived hits, but many, as in hundreds of mi8 and mi24s did not. Hard to argue with that numbers the Soviets even admit they lost to the stinger.
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Could you please post that video? You see Google's results varies with your location.
These are the relevant hits I get:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy5UMCMjkN4
Chechnya. Igla vs. Mi-24. Aircraft stays intact and looks controllable while descending.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fABFnAkysM
Sri Lanka. Igla vs. Mi-24. Aircraft stays intact, but seems to lose power to tail rotor (main rotor seems intact though difficult to see). Uncontrollable crash due to low altitude.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wobG_68P_LE
"Stinger in Afghanistan" documentary. Stinger vs. Sikorsky S-55 "Hind" target drone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJaZtAYM9KU
Another Afghanistan documentary showing a hit against what looks like a small target drone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6KFb1ZUwL0
Looks like an interesting Russian film...
If you can find a video of an actual real Mi-24 blowing up or breaking up in flight I would be grateful if you post a link to it.
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That last video is from a film with obvious special effects (to my eyes).
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Yeah. Like I said: Looks like an interesting Russian film...
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Found it:
Russian TV mini series "The Storm Gate", about the war in Chechnya.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=703Pl3O-UMg
Looks good. Wonder if there's a subtitled version available...
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Gman, could you please post that third result you got on your search?
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:rofl
Holy crap the chopper took a big hit. The allah snackbars quiet down a bit once they realize its flying away.
Allah snackbars!! allah snackbars!! al....allah......(puzzled looks)....$^#&!!!! -sound of silence-
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Sorry I forgot about this thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wobG_68P_LE
At 0.33, it shows an example from the earlier ones I mentioned and that you posted, freeze it there, and look at how much of the front end blew off, they cut to a mi24 going down nose in, but that is obviously not the same helicopter, even the sky is a different color. Also at 0.56, this is the one I used as most of the basis of speaking to the damage caused. As I stated several times, I realize it's engine damage, and in particular rotor damage, be it chopping off a main rotor or two, or the tail rotor, that brings down these things, but in these cases, the warhead blows the front end of the mi24's pretty much right off. Also, from the time I spend with the EOD guys blowing up the EOD graveyards in Afghanistan, and seeing how much damage a few pounds of c4 can do all on its own, 6.6 pounds of shaped charge blowing into the front, or ANY part of an MI24 has the potential to blow it into large separate parts. There is another example at 1:50 or so, and that helo blow apart pretty well too, at least the front 1/4 of it seems to be adios.
Also the first video I think your google found is one of the ones I mentioned as well, obviously an Afghan fighter in the 1980's shooting at a medium altitude Mi24, the explosion is fairly large, and it looks to me like the rear part of the tail is chopped and folded in on to the side of the helo. It didn't blast it apart as badly as the first video I linked in this post, but the rate it was falling shows it was absolutely in free fall out of control, with the windmilling main rotors only slowing it a bit.
Anyhow, the first 2 examples of the 1st video in the thread is what you were nitpicking over. It is obvious to anyone, especially in the 2nd example that the Mi24 can absolutely be "blown apart", as that is precisely what happened in the video. And as I have said, it may not be the case in every missile hit, or even the majority of proximity detonations, but it certainly does happen. I've also seen the results up close and personal of what a MANPADS missile can do when it strikes a helo with a close proximity detonation or even an impact detonation. Remember what my OP stated, that the Mi24 is a VERY tough bird, and obviously so based on what happened to this one in this particular case. But it isn't invincible by any means, and the three examples I just showed prove this out, that in certain cases the Mi24 can have a large part of itself blown into much smaller little bits by even small missiles like the Sa7/14/etc or the Stinger family.
-Bows.
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Sorry I forgot about this thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wobG_68P_LE
At 0.33, it shows an example from the earlier ones I mentioned and that you posted, freeze it there, and look at how much of the front end blew off, they cut to a mi24 going down nose in, but that is obviously not the same helicopter, even the sky is a different color.
That's an old Sikorsky QS-55 Hind simulator drone. Notice the fixed landing gear, three-bladed main rotor and two bladed tail rotor. That's no Mi-24...
Also at 0.56, this is the one I used as most of the basis of speaking to the damage caused. As I stated several times, I realize it's engine damage, and in particular rotor damage, be it chopping off a main rotor or two, or the tail rotor, that brings down these things, but in these cases, the warhead blows the front end of the mi24's pretty much right off.
The same QS-55 from a different angle. Again count rotor blades if you don't believe me. The reason the missile is hitting the nose and not the mid-section is because in the Sikorsky S-55 the engine in is the nose.
Your basis for determining damage is based on old unarmored cargo helicopters converted to target drones and dressed up to look like Mi-24s.
Newer QS-55 Hind simulator, now with five-bladed main rotor, but still the original two-bladed tail rotor:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/26232318/QS-55.jpg)
The actual cockpit is located just in front of the rotor mast (where the blue-shirted person is poking out of the fuselage). The engine exhaust is the small hole you see just above and in front of the forward landing gear, and that's where the missiles are hitting in the video.
There is another example at 1:50 or so, and that helo blow apart pretty well too, at least the front 1/4 of it seems to be adios.
Again it appears to be a QS-55 since the missile hits the nose rather than the mid-section, where the engines of a real Hind would be. I would not be surprised if all three clips are just different camera angles from the same drone shoot down.
Also the first video I think your google found is one of the ones I mentioned as well, obviously an Afghan fighter in the 1980's shooting at a medium altitude Mi24, the explosion is fairly large, and it looks to me like the rear part of the tail is chopped and folded in on to the side of the helo. It didn't blast it apart as badly as the first video I linked in this post, but the rate it was falling shows it was absolutely in free fall out of control, with the windmilling main rotors only slowing it a bit.
If you mean the first video I posted, then that would be in Chechnya, and that is exactly what an auto rotating helicopter looks like while descending.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je1gI4-OLx8
Anyhow, the first 2 examples of the 1st video in the thread is what you were nitpicking over. It is obvious to anyone, especially in the 2nd example that the Mi24 can absolutely be "blown apart", as that is precisely what happened in the video.
As I have clearly demonstrated, this is no nitpicking, and those two examples were no Mi-24s. I've yet to see a real Mi-24 being blown apart in the air, and I am beginning to think that no such footage exists. Something spectacular would have to happen for a MANPADS missile to blow up a 26,000 lbs aircraft like the Hind. Even the less-than-half-as-big AH-64 Apache has survived missile hits again and again. In a few cases multiple hits from MANPADS' and flown home.
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I had no idea those were target drones, and those were the videos I referred to in the post where I said I was impressed on how tough the Mi24 was in the first video as I'd seen others of them exploding when impacted. I realize how tough they are, in fact I get time up close and personal with an Mi24 occasionally. Nic Bicanic, the film maker who produced and directed Shadow Company, a documentary narrated by Gerard Butler that featured my company and some of the training courses we ran as well as our operations in Iraq and Afghanistan became a good friend of mine after following me around for weeks. He also happens to own an Mi24, and can be seen flying it in the movie "Blood Diamond". The only Russian made helos I would get to see up close in the mid-east were troop carriers like the Hip, but I've climbed all over and through his Mi24, and I always figured it would stop small arms as it was designed, but really surprises me with its resilience to explosive missile hits. You may be right that no video exists of one exploding after all, and it may be that the majority are killed by damage to the engines/rotors like I said. I wonder how the Mi24's that were shot down by Aim120's and Aim9's fared by comparison to the Sa7 and Stinger impacts, when the warheads are much larger. It wouldn't surprise me if the result was much the same, as there are lots of pictures of A10's that took SA-6 hits and still made it home, even in poor shape. Like I said in the original post - one tough machine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpBpzuDRt0A
That's a video of the Aim9x hitting an F4 drone. The first sequence it looks like the F4 really doesn't suffer a whole lot of structural damage or loss, just fire, until it starts going out of control. Is this typical of Aim9 hits? It makes me wonder about even their lethality if large pieces aren't being chopped off or the target being blown up somewhat.
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As I have clearly demonstrated, this is no nitpicking, and those two examples were no Mi-24s. I've yet to see a real Mi-24 being blown apart in the air, and I am beginning to think that no such footage exists. Something spectacular would have to happen for a MANPADS missile to blow up a 26,000 lbs aircraft like the Hind. Even the less-than-half-as-big AH-64 Apache has survived missile hits again and again. In a few cases multiple hits from MANPADS' and flown home.
I'm a bit confused by your agenda GScholz. You are trying to assert that the Hind cannot be blown apart by a Stinger missile?
If that's your purpose I really don't see how it's relevant, those first two videos you posted show aircraft making very 'unscheduled landings' shall we say :lol
Besides, lack of video footage doesn't support the 'for all' logical assertion.
This is thin, probably too thin for you, but if you apply your imagination look at 48 seconds into your video here:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJaZtAYM9KU
Another Afghanistan documentary showing a hit against what looks like a small target drone.
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I had no idea those were target drones, and those were the videos I referred to in the post where I said I was impressed on how tough the Mi24 was in the first video as I'd seen others of them exploding when impacted.
Yeah, one of the reasons I dislike Discovery channel type documentaries is their tendency to use inappropriate stock footage like this without telling the viewer.
I realize how tough they are, in fact I get time up close and personal with an Mi24 occasionally. Nic Bicanic, the film maker who produced and directed Shadow Company, a documentary narrated by Gerard Butler that featured my company and some of the training courses we ran as well as our operations in Iraq and Afghanistan became a good friend of mine after following me around for weeks. He also happens to own an Mi24, and can be seen flying it in the movie "Blood Diamond". The only Russian made helos I would get to see up close in the mid-east were troop carriers like the Hip, but I've climbed all over and through his Mi24, and I always figured it would stop small arms as it was designed, but really surprises me with its resilience to explosive missile hits.
You're making me quite envious... :) I've seen plenty of Mi-24D/Vs up close at Split airbase as the Croatians flew them against the Bosnian Serbs, but I've never got to look inside one. About your friend's Hind... In the movie it is seen with an extensive upgrade of South African manufacture. Do you know if this was just temporary "product placement" or do your friend still have this upgrade? Where does he fly his Mi-24 "Superhind"? Neall Ellis, the merc who flew the Hind in Sierra Leone and for EO (the backdrop for Blood Diamond), flew/flies a pretty standard 24V:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdsiZOE-5zY
I wonder how the Mi24's that were shot down by Aim120's and Aim9's fared by comparison to the Sa7 and Stinger impacts, when the warheads are much larger. It wouldn't surprise me if the result was much the same, as there are lots of pictures of A10's that took SA-6 hits and still made it home, even in poor shape. Like I said in the original post - one tough machine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpBpzuDRt0A
That's a video of the Aim9x hitting an F4 drone. The first sequence it looks like the F4 really doesn't suffer a whole lot of structural damage or loss, just fire, until it starts going out of control. Is this typical of Aim9 hits? It makes me wonder about even their lethality if large pieces aren't being chopped off or the target being blown up somewhat.
Survival against larger missiles like the AIM-9 and 120 is very unlikely. Even if the missile doesn't blow the aircraft physically apart it is much more likely to render it unflyable. These missiles have much larger warheads, and also more kinetic energy from their higher speeds. The smaller AIM-9 has a warhead three times the size of the Stinger's, and what, 8 times that of the Igla? That's some serious bang.
Fast jets tend to break apart after missile hits, not because of the explosive force of the missile, but because of aerodynamic forces over stressing the airframe after losing control.
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Nrshida, you'll have to do better than that if you want to troll me. ;)
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I'm not trying to troll you, you seemed to be contradicting yourself and I'm trying to see your point.
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My point was that I wanted to see the claimed footage of Hinds being blown apart in the air if such footage existed. That would be an extraordinary sight in my opinion since I've never heard of something like that happening to an armored gunship before. Nothing more than that.
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That would be an extraordinary sight in my opinion since I've never heard of something like that happening to an armored gunship before. Nothing more than that.
(http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/an_mi-24_kill_04.jpg)
"DeHeever approached to 500m from the Mi-24 in front and opened fire, hitting the tail boom and the rotor. The entire rear section of the Soviet helicopter was blown away and the fuselage spiralled straight into the ground".
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Yeah, twin DEFA 30 mm cannons will do that. So will the GAU-8 on the A-10. I've seen a few unfortunate Iraqi helos being strafed to oblivion by gunfire.
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:lol
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Yeah, twin DEFA 30 mm cannons will do that. So will the GAU-8 on the A-10. I've seen a few unfortunate Iraqi helos being strafed to oblivion by gunfire.
Hell werent there are a few helicopters which were shot down by the gau8 during Desert Storm?
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Those were the ones I was thinking about. Saw an interview with an A-10 driver; he couldn't get a lock with his AIM-9s because of the hot desert background, so he spun up the gun and put about 300 rounds into the Iraqi helo. In his words: "There wasn't much left after that."