Author Topic: One tough Russian built Helo Video - Takes Sam hit, flies off  (Read 1140 times)

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: One tough Russian built Helo Video - Takes Sam hit, flies off
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2012, 09:20:31 PM »
The "crash landing" looked survivable.

Before or after the fireball?

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Offline Slash27

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Re: One tough Russian built Helo Video - Takes Sam hit, flies off
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2012, 10:46:11 PM »
Before or after the fireball?

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Offline GScholz

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Re: One tough Russian built Helo Video - Takes Sam hit, flies off
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2012, 04:26:04 AM »
I've never seen footage of a real Hind falling apart in the air after a SAM hit. There are a number of videos of other helicopters dressed up to look like hinds blowing up in the air; unfortunately these videos have been used in TV documentaries too.
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Offline zack1234

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Re: One tough Russian built Helo Video - Takes Sam hit, flies off
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2012, 04:48:33 AM »
I forgot to press mute :cry
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Offline WWhiskey

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Re: One tough Russian built Helo Video - Takes Sam hit, flies off
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2012, 08:36:15 AM »
The first and second video on this forum are not of the same helicopter,, the first one is still flying 20 seconds after the hit and changes course at least once,, the second one is hit and hits the ground 16 seconds later,, pretty hard!,
I didn't find any crash landing videos of the first chopper?
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Offline Gman

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Re: One tough Russian built Helo Video - Takes Sam hit, flies off
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2012, 12:06:52 PM »
Gsholz Google stinger and mi24.  There is tons of combat footage of mi24s being shot down that isn't just Hollywood make believe.  The third result down shows a mi24 that is chopped into two pieces, which is how I define blown apart.  The little documentary on utube about the stinger in Afghanistan shows many examples, but the interviews with the soviet pilots is more telling, and he specifically speaks about the destruction of the mi24s he saw struck by manpads.  Some obviously survived hits, but many, as in hundreds of mi8 and mi24s did not.  Hard to argue with that numbers the Soviets even admit they lost to the stinger.

Offline GScholz

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Re: One tough Russian built Helo Video - Takes Sam hit, flies off
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2012, 04:55:24 AM »
Could you please post that video? You see Google's results varies with your location.


These are the relevant hits I get:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy5UMCMjkN4
Chechnya. Igla vs. Mi-24. Aircraft stays intact and looks controllable while descending.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fABFnAkysM
Sri Lanka. Igla vs. Mi-24. Aircraft stays intact, but seems to lose power to tail rotor (main rotor seems intact though difficult to see). Uncontrollable crash due to low altitude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wobG_68P_LE
"Stinger in Afghanistan" documentary. Stinger vs. Sikorsky S-55 "Hind" target drone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJaZtAYM9KU
Another Afghanistan documentary showing a hit against what looks like a small target drone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6KFb1ZUwL0
Looks like an interesting Russian film...


If you can find a video of an actual real Mi-24 blowing up or breaking up in flight I would be grateful if you post a link to it.
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Offline nrshida

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Re: One tough Russian built Helo Video - Takes Sam hit, flies off
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2012, 05:30:50 AM »
That last video is from a film with obvious special effects (to my eyes).
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Offline GScholz

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Re: One tough Russian built Helo Video - Takes Sam hit, flies off
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2012, 05:42:19 AM »
Yeah. Like I said: Looks like an interesting Russian film...
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Offline GScholz

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Re: One tough Russian built Helo Video - Takes Sam hit, flies off
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2012, 05:56:24 AM »
Found it:

Russian TV mini series "The Storm Gate", about the war in Chechnya.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=703Pl3O-UMg

Looks good. Wonder if there's a subtitled version available...
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Offline GScholz

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Re: One tough Russian built Helo Video - Takes Sam hit, flies off
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2012, 08:27:45 AM »
Gman, could you please post that third result you got on your search?
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Offline BaDkaRmA158Th

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Re: One tough Russian built Helo Video - Takes Sam hit, flies off
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2012, 11:32:06 PM »
:rofl

Holy crap the chopper took a big hit. The allah snackbars quiet down a bit once they realize its flying away.


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Offline Gman

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Re: One tough Russian built Helo Video - Takes Sam hit, flies off
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2012, 11:43:26 PM »
Sorry I forgot about this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wobG_68P_LE

At 0.33, it shows an example from the earlier ones I mentioned and that you posted, freeze it there, and look at how much of the front end blew off, they cut to a mi24 going down nose in, but that is obviously not the same helicopter, even the sky is a different color.  Also at 0.56, this is the one I used as most of the basis of speaking to the damage caused.  As I stated several times, I realize it's engine damage, and in particular rotor damage, be it chopping off a main rotor or two, or the tail rotor, that brings down these things, but in these cases, the warhead blows the front end of the mi24's pretty much right off.  Also, from the time I spend with the EOD guys blowing up the EOD graveyards in Afghanistan, and seeing how much damage a few pounds of c4 can do all on its own, 6.6 pounds of shaped charge blowing into the front, or ANY part of an MI24 has the potential to blow it into large separate parts.  There is another example at 1:50 or so, and that helo blow apart pretty well too, at least the front 1/4 of it seems to be adios.

Also the first video I think your google found is one of the ones I mentioned as well, obviously an Afghan fighter in the 1980's shooting at a medium altitude Mi24, the explosion is fairly large, and it looks to me like the rear part of the tail is chopped and folded in on to the side of the helo.  It didn't blast it apart as badly as the first video I linked in this post, but the rate it was falling shows it was absolutely in free fall out of control, with the windmilling main rotors only slowing it a bit.

Anyhow, the first 2 examples of the 1st video in the thread is what you were nitpicking over.  It is obvious to anyone, especially in the 2nd example that the Mi24 can absolutely be "blown apart", as that is precisely what happened in the video.  And as I have said, it may not be the case in every missile hit, or even the majority of proximity detonations, but it certainly does happen.  I've also seen the results up close and personal of what a MANPADS missile can do when it strikes a helo with a close proximity detonation or even an impact detonation.  Remember what my OP stated, that the Mi24 is a VERY tough bird, and obviously so based on what happened to this one in this particular case.  But it isn't invincible by any means, and the three examples I just showed prove this out, that in certain cases the Mi24 can have a large part of itself blown into much smaller little bits by even small missiles like the Sa7/14/etc or the Stinger family.


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« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 11:53:08 PM by Gman »

Offline GScholz

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Re: One tough Russian built Helo Video - Takes Sam hit, flies off
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2012, 01:28:45 AM »
Sorry I forgot about this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wobG_68P_LE

At 0.33, it shows an example from the earlier ones I mentioned and that you posted, freeze it there, and look at how much of the front end blew off, they cut to a mi24 going down nose in, but that is obviously not the same helicopter, even the sky is a different color.

That's an old Sikorsky QS-55 Hind simulator drone. Notice the fixed landing gear, three-bladed main rotor and two bladed tail rotor. That's no Mi-24...


Also at 0.56, this is the one I used as most of the basis of speaking to the damage caused.  As I stated several times, I realize it's engine damage, and in particular rotor damage, be it chopping off a main rotor or two, or the tail rotor, that brings down these things, but in these cases, the warhead blows the front end of the mi24's pretty much right off.

The same QS-55 from a different angle. Again count rotor blades if you don't believe me. The reason the missile is hitting the nose and not the mid-section is because in the Sikorsky S-55 the engine in is the nose.

Your basis for determining damage is based on old unarmored cargo helicopters converted to target drones and dressed up to look like Mi-24s.

Newer QS-55 Hind simulator, now with five-bladed main rotor, but still the original two-bladed tail rotor:



The actual cockpit is located just in front of the rotor mast (where the blue-shirted person is poking out of the fuselage). The engine exhaust is the small hole you see just above and in front of the forward landing gear, and that's where the missiles are hitting in the video.



There is another example at 1:50 or so, and that helo blow apart pretty well too, at least the front 1/4 of it seems to be adios.

Again it appears to be a QS-55 since the missile hits the nose rather than the mid-section, where the engines of a real Hind would be. I would not be surprised if all three clips are just different camera angles from the same drone shoot down.



Also the first video I think your google found is one of the ones I mentioned as well, obviously an Afghan fighter in the 1980's shooting at a medium altitude Mi24, the explosion is fairly large, and it looks to me like the rear part of the tail is chopped and folded in on to the side of the helo.  It didn't blast it apart as badly as the first video I linked in this post, but the rate it was falling shows it was absolutely in free fall out of control, with the windmilling main rotors only slowing it a bit.

If you mean the first video I posted, then that would be in Chechnya, and that is exactly what an auto rotating helicopter looks like while descending.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je1gI4-OLx8



Anyhow, the first 2 examples of the 1st video in the thread is what you were nitpicking over.  It is obvious to anyone, especially in the 2nd example that the Mi24 can absolutely be "blown apart", as that is precisely what happened in the video.

As I have clearly demonstrated, this is no nitpicking, and those two examples were no Mi-24s. I've yet to see a real Mi-24 being blown apart in the air, and I am beginning to think that no such footage exists. Something spectacular would have to happen for a MANPADS missile to blow up a 26,000 lbs aircraft like the Hind. Even the less-than-half-as-big AH-64 Apache has survived missile hits again and again. In a few cases multiple hits from MANPADS' and flown home.
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Offline Gman

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Re: One tough Russian built Helo Video - Takes Sam hit, flies off
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2012, 02:16:21 AM »
I had no idea those were target drones, and those were the videos I referred to in the post where I said I was impressed on how tough the Mi24 was in the first video as I'd seen others of them exploding when impacted.  I realize how tough they are, in fact I get time up close and personal with an Mi24 occasionally.  Nic Bicanic, the film maker who produced and directed Shadow Company, a documentary narrated by Gerard Butler that featured my company and some of the training courses we ran as well as our operations in Iraq and Afghanistan became a good friend of mine after following me around for weeks.  He also happens to own an Mi24, and can be seen flying it in the movie "Blood Diamond".  The only Russian made helos I would get to see up close in the mid-east were troop carriers like the Hip, but I've climbed all over and through his Mi24, and I always figured it would stop small arms as it was designed, but really surprises me with its resilience to explosive missile hits.  You may be right that no video exists of one exploding after all, and it may be that the majority are killed by damage to the engines/rotors like I said.  I wonder how the Mi24's that were shot down by Aim120's and Aim9's fared by comparison to the Sa7 and Stinger impacts, when the warheads are much larger.  It wouldn't surprise me if the result was much the same, as there are lots of pictures of A10's that took SA-6 hits and still made it home, even in poor shape.  Like I said in the original post - one tough machine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpBpzuDRt0A

That's a video of the Aim9x hitting an F4 drone.  The first sequence it looks like the F4 really doesn't suffer a whole lot of structural damage or loss, just fire, until it starts going out of control.  Is this typical of Aim9 hits?  It makes me wonder about even their lethality if large pieces aren't being chopped off or the target being blown up somewhat.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2012, 02:21:18 AM by Gman »