Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: MrGeezer on December 09, 2012, 12:41:09 PM
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http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/wings_of_an_angel_m7W8NXNsFsgsqcf5YKPGzO (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/wings_of_an_angel_m7W8NXNsFsgsqcf5YKPGzO)
Not only a good historic read but also a good reason to question our everyday gameplay.
ROX
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Awesome read, thanks for sharing :salute
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:cry
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I was at the Reno Air Races, I think it was mid 90's and saw the painting on display and met the artist. The artist told me that story and both pilots had signed the painting as well as him. He said they began meeting on Dec 2oth to commemorate that moment from the war. He also added that the Stigler had actually called off other German fighters and was truely escorting the American Bomber.
On your comment (I fly as Ted) I recently encountered three buffs rtb in our DAR, killed two and shot the last one up bad, i also took good hits. In the spirit of that, I told him on 200 that I am leaving, go ahead and land em. and I RTB'd. He thanked me and told me that he was missing serious pieces and was having fun just keep her flying not to mention trying to shoot at me. This is the second time I have done this. En-route to a field they all die if I can get em, RTB is usually a different story.
The only time I shoot a wounded fighter is if he has just picked or vulched one of ours, caught a few hits and is running or trying to ditch in our territory as we are fighting. I never shoot at one just killed by a teammate (spiraling down with no wing) and ask if a comrade or squadie needs help before getting involved, I consider a failure to reply is a yes, other wise get a mic :).
Those who loft over a friendly field vulching takeoffs (none base take scenario) and wounded rtb birds..... :(
Those who immediately on 200 call out, pawned, or some other self-serving self-gratifying statement :( :(
Everyone else <S>
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I always enjoy reading about that encounter. Has to be my favorite story from WWII. I like to fly with that same code of honor that Rodel gave Stigler and will never shoot down a wounded bird.
One of my favorite moments in AHII was when I got into an intense fight with my K4 vs a Ki84 over TT. After a few turns and a good fight the Ki84 got half my wing. I was able to keep my plane flying but I looked back to see the Ki84 closing for the kill, or so I thought. As I sat there waiting to get pump full of holes I watch the Ki84 pull up in formation with me. He actually escorted me back to our vbase all the while a massive melee taking place over our heads with Rooks, Bish, and Knights. Once he knew I was out of harms way he waved his wings in salute and flew off.
:salute To whoever that was, and other like him.
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I always enjoy reading about that encounter. Has to be my favorite story from WWII. I like to fly with that same code of honor that Rodel gave Stigler and will never shoot down a wounded bird.
One of my favorite moments in AHII was when I got into an intense fight with my K4 vs a Ki84 over TT. After a few turns and a good fight the Ki84 got half my wing. I was able to keep my plane flying but I looked back to see the Ki84 closing for the kill, or so I thought. As I sat there waiting to get pump full of holes I watch the Ki84 pull up in formation with me. He actually escorted me back to our vbase all the while a massive melee taking place over our heads with Rooks, Bish, and Knights. Once he knew I was out of harms way he waved his wings in salute and flew off.
:salute To whoever that was, and other like him.
Right On!!!! :salute
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I was at the Reno Air Races, I think it was mid 90's and saw the painting on display and met the artist. The artist told me that story and both pilots had signed the painting as well as him. He said they began meeting on Dec 2oth to commemorate that moment from the war. He also added that the Stigler had actually called off other German fighters and was truely escorting the American Bomber.
On your comment (I fly as Ted) I recently encountered three buffs rtb in our DAR, killed two and shot the last one up bad, i also took good hits. In the spirit of that, I told him on 200 that I am leaving, go ahead and land em. and I RTB'd. He thanked me and told me that he was missing serious pieces and was having fun just keep her flying not to mention trying to shoot at me. This is the second time I have done this. En-route to a field they all die if I can get em, RTB is usually a different story.
The only time I shoot a wounded fighter is if he has just picked or vulched one of ours, caught a few hits and is running or trying to ditch in our territory as we are fighting. I never shoot at one just killed by a teammate (spiraling down with no wing) and ask if a comrade or squadie needs help before getting involved, I consider a failure to reply is a yes, other wise get a mic :).
Those who loft over a friendly field vulching takeoffs (none base take scenario) and wounded rtb birds..... :(
Those who immediately on 200 call out, pawned, or some other self-serving self-gratifying statement :( :(
Everyone else <S>
:aok :salute
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http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/wings_of_an_angel_m7W8NXNsFsgsqcf5YKPGzO (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/wings_of_an_angel_m7W8NXNsFsgsqcf5YKPGzO)
Not only a good historic read but also a good reason to question our everyday gameplay.
ROX
:aok
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Definitely worth the read.
:salute
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:rock :rock :rock It was me! :rock :rock :rock :airplane: :airplane: :airplane: :old: :old:
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Good read.
Great story.
However...
This is a game, if your icon is red, I'm shooting your arse down.
Have a nice day :D
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Mrgezzer, that was great.
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Great story, :salute
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It is a disservice to use these men, who put their lives on the line, to justify actions in a game..
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It is a disservice to use these men, who put their lives on the line, to justify actions in a game..
Yes, this real-life story about an amazing act makes anything that goes on in this game insignificant by comparison. However, since this is a forum about Aces High game-play, I think the point about honor shouldn't be disregarded. It is just another way of making the point of how ridiculous some of the behavior and animosity that exists, and is largely tolerated, in this game really is.
Here were two men, mortal enemies at the time, that shared a rare moment of humanity. While again, insignificant by comparison, it is true that too frequently we lose sight of the fact that we are not really enemies, but members of the same gaming community. We are simply competing against one another on the same field. Too often the gamer’s desire to get the “name in lights” overwhelms the self-respect of knowing how you got it. I, as a rather competitive person, fall victim to this all the time. But I can speak from experience that the self-respect maintained by disengaging and saluting someone like Latrobe, so he can ditch his oiled 109F4 after putting up an amazing 3:1 fight, lasts much longer than the feeling of landing 10 kills from vulching a deacked field.
When I find myself succumbing to the emotions of the game, I try to remember the lesson I learned as a young athlete long ago: that in the end you should be able to look your opponent in the eye and shake their hand in mutual respect, whether in victory or defeat.
Saluting the foe who just shot you down or disengaging and telling the stricken opponent to “go land it” are certainly honorable acts that are worthy of discussing in the context of this game.
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I have a soft spot for this kind of thing, especially in the WW1 arena but I think the moment you try to re-enact honourable stuff in a game is when you lose sight of reality a little.
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Yes, this real-life story about an amazing act of humanity compared to which anything that goes on in this game is insignificant. However, since this is a forum about Aces High game-play, I think the point about honor shouldn't be disregarded just because it pales by comparison to this story. Actually, I think it makes a valid point on how ridiculous some of the behavior and animosity that exists, and is largely tolerated, here really is.
Too frequently we lose sight of the fact that we are not really enemies, but members of the same gaming community competing on the same field. Too often the gamer’s desire to get the “name in lights” overwhelms the self-respect of knowing how you got it. I, as a rather competitive person, fall victim to this all the time. But I can speak from experience that the self-respect maintained by disengaging and saluting someone like Latrobe so he can ditch his oiled 109F4 after putting up an amazing 3:1 fight lasts much longer than the feeling of landing 10 kills from vulching a deacked field.
When I find myself succumbing to the emotions of the game, I try to remember the lesson I learned as a young athlete long ago: that in the end you should be able to look your opponent in the eye and shake their hand in mutual respect, whether in victory or defeat.
Saluting the foe who just shot you down or disengaging and telling the stricken opponent to “go land it” are certainly honorable acts that are worthy of discussing in the context of this game.
well said :aok
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Nothing like trying to let a guy live and trying to fly formation with him only to have him try to ram you. :rolleyes: Sorry, but you're going to be eating bullets regardless of how badly messed up your plane is. Learned that lesson, not once, but twice.
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This is a game, if your icon is red, I'm shooting your arse down.
Exactly. I find it kind of humorous that some people actually expect to be left alone after you've damaged their plane. The other day in the MW arena, I shot off another P-38J's elevator and damaged one engine. When the P-38J driver broke to RTB his damaged plane, it gave me the perfect angle to finish him off. He then spent about 10 minutes calling me an stunninghunk and how I had no honor because I wouldn't let him RTB his damaged plane.
ack-ack
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It was the Germans duty to shoot the B17 down. The Americans flew home landed replaned and we're back on the next mission to kill Germans. If the Americans had wanted to surrender they could have lowered their landing gear and put out their flaps, this was considered a universal sign of surrender. Is a very touching story but I've always felt that the German pilot should've been shot. How many of his comrades and countryman died because of his actions?
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It was the Germans duty to shoot the B17 down. The Americans flew home landed replaned and we're back on the next mission to kill Germans. If the Americans had wanted to surrender they could have lowered their landing gear and put out their flaps, this was considered a universal sign of surrender. Is a very touching story but I've always felt that the German pilot should've been shot. How many of his comrades and countryman died because of his actions?
Cane what would you do if you were in his shoes? He could tell that this plane stood no chance of putting up a fight. There are cases of this that happened all throughout the war. I feel the pilot did the right thing as thought how he would feel if he were in the American Crews shoes :salute
-BFOOT1
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It was the Germans duty to shoot the B17 down. The Americans flew home landed replaned and we're back on the next mission to kill Germans. If the Americans had wanted to surrender they could have lowered their landing gear and put out their flaps, this was considered a universal sign of surrender. Is a very touching story but I've always felt that the German pilot should've been shot. How many of his comrades and countryman died because of his actions?
This was pretty much my reaction to the story. But after thinking about it awhile I realized what made this slightly different was that the German pilot could tell the majority of the crew was wounded. Part of the point of the Geneva conventions is that incapacitating the enemy's ability to fight is preferred to outright killing, and therefore helping preserve the combatants humanity.
Perhaps a pilot that wasn't mentally struggling with the political implications of his actions, and the threat of 50cal machine guns that could open up on him, would realize that the proper action was to clearly offer surrender. A hostile act at that point by the bomber crew would absolve him of any wrong in finishing off the bomber. The bomber crew surrendering when offered, would have made for almost as engaging story because of the bravery and humanity shown, but without the questioning the consequences of the German pilot allowing them to return to their airbase.
In AH I've never seen a badly mauled red guy surrender, land at the enemy field and become a POW. Nope they are bailing, ditching, or RTBing so they can up again to engage in another fight. So I might as well get the kill and perkies. One time, though, I really wished I had been left to try to RTB in a lone remaining B17 with no ammo, no rudder, no ailerons, one elevator, and one inboard engine out. Would have been fun to see if I could've landed it.
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Exactly. I find it kind of humorous that some people actually expect to be left alone after you've damaged their plane. The other day in the MW arena, I shot off another P-38J's elevator and damaged one engine. When the P-38J driver broke to RTB his damaged plane, it gave me the perfect angle to finish him off. He then spent about 10 minutes calling me an stunninghunk and how I had no honor because I wouldn't let him RTB his damaged plane.
Years ago in Air Warrior, I recall mixing it up with a Zeke. That ended up in my smoking him, and he turned to RTB. We waved our wings at each other and I headed off on my merry way, feeling great about the sportsmanship I'd just exhibited by allowing him to live.
Then he shot me down.
Fool me once...
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Great story!
:salute
Boo
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Someone posted this same story about 6 months ago.
The next time I encountered a trio of buffs, I killed 2, saluted the player, told him I was breaking off, wished him luck and left him alone.
I probably did that about half the time after that, maybe more. Only when I was alone against the buffs, never with a wingy.
I did it because it made me feel good.
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Someone posted this same story about 6 months ago.
The next time I encountered a trio of buffs, I killed 2, saluted the player, told him I was breaking off, wished him luck and left him alone.
I probably did that about half the time after that, maybe more. Only when I was alone against the buffs, never with a wingy.
I did it because it made me feel good.
I did this with Shawk just last night. Killed two of his B-17s then took off, though only because he pinged me up pretty good. I think I will start doing this as a rule of thumb, unless they are trying to take a base or kill the CV, in the act. I did leave a poor little SBD alone yesterday. He was at 15k and I knew it must have taken him half an hour to get thre, so I let him make his bomb run then someone else killed him.
Boo
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Cane what would you do if you were in his shoes? He could tell that this plane stood no chance of putting up a fight. There are cases of this that happened all throughout the war. I feel the pilot did the right thing as thought how he would feel if he were in the American Crews shoes :salute
-BFOOT1
I would shoot the plane down! Allowing the aircraft to return to base,means they will return to kill your countrymen.I have served my country during a time of war and there is no doubt in my mind what I would have done!
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If people could be more like Stigler the world would be a much better place. - A fantastic story!
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Thanks for posting. Great story. :salute
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I love this story, but have to agree applying it to an online game is a bit of a stretch.
As to Stigler allowing them to go, it's an awesome act of humanity. Logically, I'm of the mindset allowing your enemy to live means he'll come back one day, and that's not a good thing.
I saw a silly quote the other day that rang quite true with me. "Do no harm. Unless you mean to do harm. Then do a LOT of harm." Violence should not be used in half measures. Just MHO.
Still, an amazing story.
Wiley.
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i usually always let rtb planes go. ill keep doin that, but, its bit me a few times. bc, people who would be sorry in real life when noones looking, will be even more sorry in game. these same people in game are the ones who want everything easy and dont care how they get it. they may be at15k and see an rtb smoker on the deck and dump all that alt for an assist. theyll spend their time chasing rtb bombers 2 sectors for the kill, even tho the fight is back at the base that was just bombed. theyll be the 5th one in ho shooting a single red on the deck. meanwhile, the goon gets their town. but they were so desperate for any kill, that it didnt matter. most of the gangbangers are folks who are supposed to be good, but really they get their kills in mid horde where its safe, you can lump most of the 200 fatmouths into that category. its hard to find honor ingame. to me if youre sorry ingame, its just practice for using that same mindset in real life. i dont see how its possible to flip an honor switch between real life and a game. you are what you are. i do have to say tho, i have seen some really cool things in game, just cant think of any.
AlBundy
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I saw a silly quote the other day that rang quite true with me. "Do no harm. Unless you mean to do harm. Then do a LOT of harm." Violence should not be used in half measures. Just MHO.
Wiley.
That does not seem silly at all to me. That makes total sense. I shall adopt that for future use.
By the way, Wiley once told me I was letting that last one go just to be mean because that means they have to fly all the way home to start a new mission. Loved it. I have had a few guys respond and tell me they did not want to be "let go" and that I should come back and finish it. I accommodated them. :devil
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i usually always let rtb planes go. ill keep doin that, but, its bit me a few times. bc, people who would be sorry in real life when noones looking, will be even more sorry in game. these same people in game are the ones who want everything easy and dont care how they get it. they may be at15k and see an rtb smoker on the deck and dump all that alt for an assist. theyll spend their time chasing rtb bombers 2 sectors for the kill, even tho the fight is back at the base that was just bombed. theyll be the 5th one in ho shooting a single red on the deck. meanwhile, the goon gets their town. but they were so desperate for any kill, that it didnt matter. most of the gangbangers are folks who are supposed to be good, but really they get their kills in mid horde where its safe, you can lump most of the 200 fatmouths into that category. its hard to find honor ingame. to me if youre sorry ingame, its just practice for using that same mindset in real life. i dont see how its possible to flip an honor switch between real life and a game. you are what you are. i do have to say tho, i have seen some really cool things in game, just cant think of any.
AlBundy
I have always thought the same, sir :salute
Btw, how's Peg ? I always thought she was HOT !
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Thanks for the OP to turning me onto this. This is what I received in the mail today.
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s36/scubaanddreams/396D0A78-1DEE-4D42-AECC-2464392CBDFD-222-0000008FEDE760E1.jpg)
What an inspiring event.
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Exactly. I find it kind of humorous that some people actually expect to be left alone after you've damaged their plane. The other day in the MW arena, I shot off another P-38J's elevator and damaged one engine. When the P-38J driver broke to RTB his damaged plane, it gave me the perfect angle to finish him off. He then spent about 10 minutes calling me an stunninghunk and how I had no honor because I wouldn't let him RTB his damaged plane.
ack-ack
:rofl