Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Tank-Ace on December 10, 2012, 07:27:29 PM
-
We got different types of bombs, and thats a fantastic start. But we still need to rework how ordnance is selected, and add some more options for a couple of planes to make it great.
1) Keep current arrangment, save for the few odd-balls such as the bombs on the 110 being selected along with the gun package, or the F6F's DT and bombs being on the same selection column. Two options to work with. A) we could have a pop-up inform you when you have slected two incompatible load-out options (say, you try to select DT and bombs for the Hellcat, which interfere with eachother). You hit okay, and pick which one you want. Or B), we could have the incompatable ordnance options be greyed-out, based on what you have currently selected.
Biggest advantage to the second option, is that its pretty strait foreward, and would work better with gun-bomb packages, like on the 110 or the 410.
2) Add more options to the existing planes. The 190F is particularly lacking compared to what it could carry in real life. Give it the 8x 50kg bombs, the 1000kg centerline bomb, 2x 250kg wing bombs, and a single torpedo. The P-38 could carry 4x 1000lb bombs, or 2 2000lb bombs as well, IIRC. F4U-1D should also recieve the 2000lb bomb option. The 190A-5 had an option for wing drop-tanks at the expense of the 2 extra MG FF 20mm's. Considering the 190's rather limited range, it would be a particularly usefull addition, allowing it to carry wing DT's and the centerline bomb.
3) depending on what ordnance options are added, introduce perked ordnance. 4x 1000lb bombs on a P-38 could be a bit unbalancing if left unrestricted, for example. Similar issues might be encountered with the 1000kg bomb on the 190. Would be the most survivable German aircraft carrying more than around 500kg (1000lbs) of ordnance.
-
The P-38 could carry 4x 1000lb bombs, or 2 2000lb bombs as well, IIRC.
P-38s couldn't carry 4x 1,000 pounders.
ack-ack
-
P-38s couldn't carry 4x 1,000 pounders.
ack-ack
Hmmm... Was that something else? Its possible I'm just imagining that one, but I don't think so.
-
Hmmm... Was that something else? Its possible I'm just imagining that one, but I don't think so.
Whether or not you don't think so, you're wrong. Show one picture or mission AAR that shows a P-38 (any variant) taking off with 4x 1,000 pounders on an operational combat mission. If they carried 4,000 pounds worth of bombs it would be 2x 2,000 pounders, not 4x single 1,000 pounders.
ack-ack
-
Somebody did post a very nice photo of a field modded P-38 carrying six 500lb bombs.
-
Somebody did post a very nice photo of a field modded P-38 carrying six 500lb bombs.
Depending on the variant it might not have been a field mod.
ack-ack
-
Much as I want to stay away from this topic, but I have to ask - if for example a P-38 could carrying twin 2,000lb bombs, but wasn't used on an operational scale, should it be allowed in Aces High? Just because it "could" doesn't mean it was used operationally unless field moded or for a specific mission.
I don't recall 38s carrying 4k of ords, or ever seeing photos - but for sake of it, they could and have on one mission, I don't think it should be allowed for Aces High purposes. It's a game, next thing we know nothing but 38s will be flying missions to drop every hanger, or F4u's.
I torment between historically accurate and trying to keep Aces High balanced as a game. If 38s can carry 4k of ords, then the next argument will be B-17s carrying a full load and it will simply go down hill from there.
I think the best thing we can do is add or modify all historical ordnance loads from planes in game already.
-
I would like to see the 1 x 250kg bomb and one DT for the Ki-84.
-
Much as I want to stay away from this topic, but I have to ask - if for example a P-38 could carrying twin 2,000lb bombs, but wasn't used on an operational scale, should it be allowed in Aces High? Just because it "could" doesn't mean it was used operationally unless field moded or for a specific mission.
I don't recall 38s carrying 4k of ords, or ever seeing photos - but for sake of it, they could and have on one mission, I don't think it should be allowed for Aces High purposes. It's a game, next thing we know nothing but 38s will be flying missions to drop every hanger, or F4u's.
I torment between historically accurate and trying to keep Aces High balanced as a game. If 38s can carry 4k of ords, then the next argument will be B-17s carrying a full load and it will simply go down hill from there.
I think the best thing we can do is add or modify all historical ordnance loads from planes in game already.
P-38s on occasion did use 2,000 pound bombs and even a 3,000 pounder but never 4x 1,000 pounders.
ack-ack
-
The 8/50kg bombs and the 250 and/or500 kg SAP bombs for the 190F-8 would be nice. :aok
-
Since this is a ordinance related thread I'd like to ask here:
Whats the difference between the High Capacity and Light Case bombs :huh? They both seem to have the same effect in game. Are the HCs heavier performance wise? LCs aren't going to blow up if hit by enemy fire are they? :lol
Much as I want to stay away from this topic, but I have to ask - if for example a P-38 could carrying twin 2,000lb bombs, but wasn't used on an operational scale, should it be allowed in Aces High? Just because it "could" doesn't mean it was used operationally unless field moded or for a specific mission.
I don't recall 38s carrying 4k of ords, or ever seeing photos - but for sake of it, they could and have on one mission, I don't think it should be allowed for Aces High purposes. It's a game, next thing we know nothing but 38s will be flying missions to drop every hanger, or F4u's.
I torment between historically accurate and trying to keep Aces High balanced as a game. If 38s can carry 4k of ords, then the next argument will be B-17s carrying a full load and it will simply go down hill from there.
I think the best thing we can do is add or modify all historical ordnance loads from planes in game already.
HTC has been pretty rigid about this matter, and rightly so. No field mods in game (imagine the can of worms that would be if ever allowed). The luft-birdies would be an absolute nightmare. Pity though, I'm told some P38s have a pure 50cal load-out and that the P38-L engines could output more power than in game. :devil
-
Whether or not you don't think so, you're wrong. Show one picture or mission AAR that shows a P-38 (any variant) taking off with 4x 1,000 pounders on an operational combat mission. If they carried 4,000 pounds worth of bombs it would be 2x 2,000 pounders, not 4x single 1,000 pounders.
ack-ack
You misunderstand me. I don't think I'm imagining that SOME allied fighter carried 4 1000lb bombs, although it not at all impossible I'm wrong.
I was asking you if you knew of an allied fighter that did so, or if I was just imagining that.
-
Much as I want to stay away from this topic, but I have to ask - if for example a P-38 could carrying twin 2,000lb bombs, but wasn't used on an operational scale, should it be allowed in Aces High? Just because it "could" doesn't mean it was used operationally unless field moded or for a specific mission.
I don't recall 38s carrying 4k of ords, or ever seeing photos - but for sake of it, they could and have on one mission, I don't think it should be allowed for Aces High purposes. It's a game, next thing we know nothing but 38s will be flying missions to drop every hanger, or F4u's.
I torment between historically accurate and trying to keep Aces High balanced as a game. If 38s can carry 4k of ords, then the next argument will be B-17s carrying a full load and it will simply go down hill from there.
I think the best thing we can do is add or modify all historical ordnance loads from planes in game already.
Entire reason I asked for the perked ordnance. IIRC, the 1000kg bomb for the 190F was AP. That means with the new bomb types, three of them could take out a CV. Even when I used the Ju-87 with the 1800kg bomb (and that thing wallows like no other at 10K), I generally made it through.
If we have a fighter capable of lugging around a ~2000lb AP bomb (3000lbs effectivly on a direct hit), or 4000lbs of GP bombs, then that becomes unbalancing to the game. Thus the perks; it limits unbalancing loadouts while maintaining historical accuracy.
P.S. Were the 50kg bombs the 190 carried GP bombs, or were there other types it could carry? Because if it got the AP 500kg, and the 50kger's were AP as well, that would also improve the usefullness of the 190F on JABO missions.
Considering that its the primary JABO variant of the 190's, it seems to be a bit lacking in that capacity in AH. Its not the only one with such issues, but its the biggest one.
Something else I was curious about, regarding ordnance types and loadouts..... did the Japanese not make more AP bombs for the B5N than the 800kg one? Considering that ships would be a big target, one would think that other AP bombs would have been made as well.
-
The Japanese 800kg AP bomb is actually, if I recall correctly, a 16" shell for the Nagato class BBs with fins attached.
-
You misunderstand me. I don't think I'm imagining that SOME allied fighter carried 4 1000lb bombs, although it not at all impossible I'm wrong.
I was asking you if you knew of an allied fighter that did so, or if I was just imagining that.
I didn't misunderstand anything. You were wrong and you're just trying to save face and backpedal by claiming you meant "SOME allied fighter..." instead of what you originally claimed in your post. Remember the only result of backpedaling is that you'll eventually end up on your ass.
ack-ack
-
I didn't misunderstand anything. You were wrong and you're just trying to save face and backpedal by claiming you meant "SOME allied fighter..." instead of what you originally claimed in your post. Remember the only result of backpedaling is that you'll eventually end up on your ass.
ack-ack
Who poured lemonade in your cereal today? :huh
-
If we get more ordinance options:
Tiny Tims!
Centerline rack for the F4U-41D/C and 4 with the 2000lber as an option.
-
Since this is a ordinance related thread I'd like to ask here:
Whats the difference between the High Capacity and Light Case bombs :huh? They both seem to have the same effect in game. Are the HCs heavier performance wise? LCs aren't going to blow up if hit by enemy fire are they? :lol
They are same thing... Htc is just using both acronyms.
-
How about incindenary ordinance?
-
How about incendiary ordinance?
Would need to add fire damage to the game first before we get incendiary bombs.
ack-ack
-
I'd like to see some of this extended to ammunition: See actual differences between ball, AP, API, grenade, HE, etc.
-
I didn't misunderstand anything. You were wrong and you're just trying to save face and backpedal by claiming you meant "SOME allied fighter..." instead of what you originally claimed in your post. Remember the only result of backpedaling is that you'll eventually end up on your ass.
Jeez AKAK, you on the rag or something? Tell me you've never misremembered anything and I'll say BS.
Now, one more time, do you know of any WWII Allied fighter capable of carrying 4x 1000lb bombs? Or maybe something like 4x 500lb bombs on double shackles, or inner and outer hardpoints?
EDIT: After taking another look at the P-38, it looks like I was remembering the P-38's 4x or 6x 250lb or 500lb bombs.
(http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/aircraft-pictures/2476d1299758003t-p-38-mods-p-38_bombs.jpg)
-
Better not dally around and wait too long in the pull out or your props will strike the bombs.
-
I would like a P-38 that could carry six 500lb bombs in AH. If it could do six 500lb bombs and ten 5" rockets all the better. More P-38s being used as strike aircraft probably means fewer P-51Ds being used as strike aircraft and anything that reduces the numbers of P-51Ds is good.
-
I would like a P-38 that could carry six 500lb bombs in AH. If it could do six 500lb bombs and ten 5" rockets all the better. More P-38s being used as strike aircraft probably means fewer P-51Ds being used as strike aircraft and anything that reduces the numbers of P-51Ds is good.
This.
+1 :aok
-
Good info here I think :salute
http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=74
-
Good info here I think :salute
http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=74
That is a good info, thanks for posting. I had forgotten that the P38 had a variant that has the Norden bomb sight and that a lead plane with the sight would usher a group of P38's not equipped with the sight to the target and while in formation would release the bombs based on the lead bomber. Cool stuff.
-
I feel like that type of thing could work in Aces High. One bomber escorted by a large number of fighters....
-
The Mossie 16 works well as a stand in for a Droop Snoot P-38. It has similar performance to the P-38L and its bomb is large enough that it can be seen easily when it drops. Run a formation of P-38Ls on a Mossie 16 lead ship in a USAAF skin, drop on the lead ship's drop.
-
I would like to see the. PTAB clusters modelled on the IL2-m3. This was the battlefield weapon that made the IL2 such a tank killer.
-
I would like to see the. PTAB clusters modelled on the IL2-m3. This was the battlefield weapon that made the IL2 such a tank killer.
I'm not sure how well they'd work in AH right now. I recall dropping both 500lb bombs from my bomb bay on a Tiger I and seeing one explode right next to the Tiger and the other generating a hit sprite by actually striking the Tiger. The only effect was to have the player in the Tiger exclaim "That was loud!" If a 500lb bomb hitting it won't kill a Tiger I, I am not sure what the PTAB bomblettes would do.
-
Depending on how effective those would be at clearing out large formations of vehicles (both the historical and logical way to do things), it would need to be made either hard as hell to use, or perked.
I mean to me, it seems like this will remove the Il-2's biggest vulnerability to tanks: the need to fly nice strait paths while on a straffing run.
-
looks like it wouldnt work very well in ah...dispersion was 1 ever 15meters( dropped at 200ft of ground so scattering would only get worse and higher) so it would work well a against formations and columns. but seeing that this is AH i can see dive bombing il2s dropping 130 to 320 anti-tank bomblets
-
That is a good info, thanks for posting. I had forgotten that the P38 had a variant that has the Norden bomb sight and that a lead plane with the sight would usher a group of P38's not equipped with the sight to the target and while in formation would release the bombs based on the lead bomber. Cool stuff.
Thanks, I think this site has alot of good info on it :salute
-
looks like it wouldnt work very well in ah...dispersion was 1 ever 15meters( dropped at 200ft of ground so scattering would only get worse and higher) so it would work well a against formations and columns. but seeing that this is AH i can see dive bombing il2s dropping 130 to 320 anti-tank bomblets
Well, given that tanks work best when used en masse (although not nessicarily with huge numbers), this would really only serve to blunt the most effectve GV attacks. And because the defenders are going to be more concentrated, this will also hurt those defending against hordes the most. While it would be somewhat effective against campers, the camp would remain unbroken for the most part, due to the typical spread of campers over multiple possitions, often with more 1000m or more seperating two groups.
Essentially, it would discourage most the very type of gameplay that should be rewarded and encouraged.
Anyway, everyone in favor of more ordnance options for more aircraft, in particular the F4U, F-38, and 190?
-
F4U
No, not really. I'd rather see more reasons to use CV strike aircraft.
F-38
F-38? Yes, if the ability to carry six 500lb bombs was standard I'd like to see that. Not sure I like the idea of a fighter bomber carrying 2000lb bombs in the game though. It might have unfortunate side effects on other aspects of the game, like GVs.
190?
Yes, for the Fw190F-8.
-
No, not really. I'd rather see more reasons to use CV strike aircraft.
Probably not going to happen. Torpedo attacks are ineffective because of the required procedure. That is to say, low, slow and steady aircraft make VERY easy targets.
And the dive bombers just seem to lack the nessecary capacity to compete in LW, where many aircraft are hauling over 2000lbs of ordnance at 300+mph. Oh there are some that would be decent, and might see more use than an F4U provided HTC changes the perk reward for using them, or for destroying ships and their guns or something.
But effectivness is the biggest motivator, followed by either personal likes (including history) or wanting a challenge.
F-38? Yes, if the ability to carry six 500lb bombs was standard I'd like to see that. Not sure I like the idea of a fighter bomber carrying 2000lb bombs in the game though. It might have unfortunate side effects on other aspects of the game, like GVs.[/quote] Typo :P.
Personally, I'd like to see the outer pylons be able to mount bombs. Or just go with the 4x 500lb bomb option instead of the 6x 500lb option. Also another good argument for perked ordnance.
Yes, for the Fw190F-8.
Yippie :noid.
-
Personally, I'd like to see the outer pylons be able to mount bombs. Or just go with the 4x 500lb bomb option instead of the 6x 500lb option. Also another good argument for perked ordnance.
Yippie :noid.
Bombs only carried on the internal hard points on the P-38.
Here is a P-38 Droop Snoop carrying 6x 500 pounders.
(http://vcdn.valka.cz/html_images/light/01/01/dropsnoot.jpg)
P-38L with 6x 500 pounders.
(http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/aircraft-pictures/2476d1299758003t-p-38-mods-p-38_bombs.jpg)
P-38 with 2x (only one side pictured) 2,000 pounder.
(http://christophe.arribat.pagesperso-orange.fr/bogbomb.jpg)
ack-ack
-
on the p38s there was a test done multiple times over europe the "droopsnoots" flight leads had no guns but a bomberdier with a norden (spelling terrible sorry) the members of the flights as well as the flight leads carried 1 2,000lbr and 1 300gal DT(300 something not sure exact number i would have to find my source again). When the lead dropped his bomb the rest of the flight would as well. The idea behind it was the 38s could run/fight their way out a helluva loteasier than the buffs and if 1 was shot down the loss was 1-2 lives instead of 10. 38s could carry 2x 2,000lbrs or 2 300g+ DTs, they rarely used but it was used in combat for a few weeks/months. my point is it was done and should qual for in game usage but would have to be perked out the wazzzu. 1 38 could drop 2 hangars with 2x 2,000lbrs, 10 rkts and some strafing. prolly why its not in the game.
<S>49Boob
49th Fighter Group
XO 9th Fighter Squadron
-
Could outer pylons carry DT's, or were they for rockets only?
And thinking about the 6x 500lber option, I think it would be best to perk an option like that. We could give the following options for the inner pylons:
2 2000lb bombs (perked)
2 1000lb bombs
6 500lb bombs (perked)
4 500lb bombs
1x DT 1x 1000lb bomb
And presumably, the 250lb bombs could also be carried, so:
6 250lb bombs
4 250lb bombs
-
I never liked the idea of perked ords...just lower eny. Also it will encourage people to fly 38s instead of all the 51 base grabs we currently have.
-
I don't think we should leave out historical loadouts just because they might be unbalancing. Thats the entire reason for perks. Its the same think as perking an unbalancing vehicle, just like the Tiger II.
If people want to pay, say 5 perks, to carry 2x 2000lb bombs on their P-38, I see no problem with that.
And P-38s are (in my opinion) easier to deal with, especially when flown by average sticks. Not a whole lot of people are real adept at using the P-38 to its strenghts, while the P-51 is much easier to do that with. Just up something fast, and you'll either force them to drop ords, or kill a lot of P-38s.
I rarely flew the P-51 after I got into Luft aircraft and GV's, and I know some who would only call me an average stick. Check my sortie stats if you care to (49Jager, or Jager for the most relevent time period). But after maybe 6 months without using the P-51 as anything but a bomb-truck, I took it out to a furball and promptly landed 6 kills with it.
-
always liked the idea of perked ords. and sorry for the redundency on the droop snoots. but the 38 is very very dragged down by the game the Jcould run 420 at 21k and make 20,000' in 6 min. not to mention the ords letdown. the F4Us could carry more ords than whats in the game. perk ord loadouts!!!!!!!!!! b25s 26s 24s 17s lancs didnt carry 1,000lb bombs every sortie typical loadouts were 250lbers or 500lbers. perk the 1,000lb and up bombs. GIVE the 38 better load outs!!! thank you
<S> 49Boob
-
Boob, how are the 49'ers doing?
-
49rs are great sittin at 32 and of the 32 players 28 active the of the 4 unactive 2 are deployed 1 in basic and 1 having some RL issues