Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: hellwolf on December 17, 2012, 06:05:16 PM
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I believe that the new achievement system is a precursor for a new funding model for Aces high.
The most serious problem for hitech or in fact any business is how to increase profits and increase the customer base. The way Aces is set up at the moment, it has and will prove difficult to achieve these goals. At the moment there are about 5000 subscriptions. How do you maintain your customer base and increase those numbers? Under the present subscription model, advertising is the only possible solution, however even if the advertising is successful, and say for instance attracts 1000 new players to a two week free trial, how does AH convert any of those new players to the subscription model? The huge learning curve the game requires IN combination with the current scoring and rank system is not conducive to new players staying. I see some noobies flying 10s if not hundreds of sorties to get a kill. This is obviously discouraging and sends many potential customers away. The new "achievements" solve this problem nicely. Humans are hard wired to become addicted to tasks that provide small and continuous rewards. Poker machines are designed to exploit this fact very effectively. Lots of bells and whistles even for little payouts compel the player to continue under the false assumption they are gaining something. The parallel with the new achievement system is obvious, getting 3 secs of airtime in a jeep is totally unrelated to any part of AH, but is a fun and achievable reward for a player. Other achievements are obviously designed to improve game play, getting a kill in every plane, or killing 1 of every type of plane, encourages the use of of many of the wonderful older planes that at the moment are just a waste of space. How many spit1s do u see in the LW arena? The new model will see a plethora of new planes and gvs in use. This will spell the end of the current scoring system. Rank will be in the future based on the number of achievement goals that are met. Why do this?
The basic idea behind this new system is i believe the beta test for removing subs altogether. Most games on the net do not follow the antiquated subscription model or even buy the CD model. Gaming on the net has evolved to "free to play, pay for upgrades". So for instance, as a noobie you have access to say a P51b, after gaining perks or "gold" or some such counter from either ticking off of achievements or and here is the important bit, you can buy the plane straight up!! might cost a dollar say to have access to P51D, an extra dollar if you want 1000lb bomb load out etc, might be $15.00 for a 262, not every time u up one but just to get access to the model. When plane is lost or damaged it will cost a certain amount of achievment "gold" or cash for repair/ replacement.
The advantage of this scoring/revenue stream is that the potential market is now HUGE. Many games i play online follow this model and have 100s of thousands if not millions of players!!! Makes the 5000 subs look like a waste of time. 1 game i play on facebook, had a special event this week (they usually run 1-2 times a month) the prizes would be similar to gaining a 262 or a tempest for your hanger, I couldn't believe the number of players talking about how much they spent, some more than $200 over a weekend, and for what? A stupid fairly cheesy simple flash game that provides those same rewards for free if you spend the time and effort to get them. This game has 1.8 million players!!!! If only 0.5 % of those players spent $15.00 per month that's twice the turnover of Aces high, and trust me a lot more than 0.5% spend money!
Another advantage for Hitech, a critical mass of players can be reached where advertising becomes more profitable and less necessary, and word of mouth or should i say the social network does all the advertising you need. Moderating the game becomes far less of a headache. At the moment hitech must moderate chat and player behavior closely so as not to offend its present customer base, a stalwart group that have well entrenched ideas and attitudes toward the game that makes any changes subject to intensive lobbying from the regular players. If the customer base numbers in the 100k plus range, it becomes of a bit of who cares what you say. A simple text filter and a watch for hacks is as far as moderating will go.
How will it affect the top raters and present players? Well for a start no subs. We should be at a skill level where most achievements will be easy for us, still hard for noobies. We wont have to spend any where near the amount of new players or I'm sure Hitech can organize it so that we end up spending about the same money per month. At least it will be our choice on how to spend those dollars, if we are not interested in a new Me410 then we just wont buy one, and market forces will determine where AH spends its R and D. At the moment they have to guess what we want then cop the complaints when they don't get it right. The new funding model will point Hitech in the right direction, if most peeps are spending money on P51ds, then that's the plane that should be upgraded first. New income will lead to improvements in quality of graphics etc. How could Hitech justify spending$ on graphic improvements now, if it really does not increase customer base enough to make it worth while. At the moment they are chasing their own tail, trying to keep the present players happy and yet spend money they probably don't have to advertise to customers who probably wont stay because the scoring rank reward system is designed to work against them. The scoring/rank system also creates many problems within the game, peeps getting angry cause a single death destroys their score for the month, that death may come at the hands of a noobie HO or collide and the noobie suffers the berating on chat and thinks why bother? If on the other hand that single death makes far less impact on a players overall achievements met or overall ranking, then less angst will be generated. This new model wont solve all the problems but will go a long way to ensuring AH continues in the future. Personally I love the new feature. Perhaps because i am used to playing other games under this model, they certainly cause me far less frustration than this game does.
What do you think?
Will it matter what you think?
5000 subs versus the potential millions of players is a no brainier.
If I am totally wrong sry Hitech.
If I am right would love to work for you and with you in the future Aces high!!!
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Unfortunately while your model would make HT rich it would kill the game as we know it. Noob players would need heavy concessions in playability such as constant F3 view etc. Any spins would be out of the question and flight model would have to support easy mouse flying.
I'm also personally very against the pay as you play model because I hate the idea that someone shells out cash just to get uberweapons that give an unfair advantage. I prefer to play a flat fee to get a flat playground for everyone.
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I second MrRiPlEy's reply
TC
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and I would like to triple MrRiplEy's reply
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I agree with MrRipley as well. HTC has also stated they are a small company that provides a game to a specific clientele, and they would like to keep it that way.
5000 subscribers may not seem like a lot to you, but to HTC it seems to pay the bills and make those involved a good enough living doing the things they love to do.
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Separate rooms where different ranked players can go solves the noobie problem. You can only fight say 5 levels above or below you, gives you a chance to go against other tougher players and move on up. Top players can move down a few levels to show them up, gain some points etc but mostly system is set up to stay at your own level or higher. Would be great for top players too, coming up against the best all time will only improve your play.
You already pay for the game, paying for upgrades wont be such a big deal, you wont be that disadvantaged since your opponents are at same level. If you get enough points to get a tempest then it levels you up so you will be competing against similar planes and players.
Yes it will destroy the game as it is, but time and falling subs is doing that anyway. There is no alternative Aces must adapt or die. Be a part of the solution, don't just be an old stick in the mud hater.
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Unfortunately while your model would make HT rich it would kill the game as we know it. Noob players would need heavy concessions in playability such as constant F3 view etc. Any spins would be out of the question and flight model would have to support easy mouse flying.
I'm also personally very against the pay as you play model because I hate the idea that someone shells out cash just to get uberweapons that give an unfair advantage. I prefer to play a flat fee to get a flat playground for everyone.
You may prefer a flat fee, So do I, but millions dont!
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Another one for what MrRipley said.
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Separate rooms where different ranked players can go solves the noobie problem. You can only fight say 5 levels above or below you, gives you a chance to go against other tougher players and move on up. Top players can move down a few levels to show them up, gain some points etc but mostly system is set up to stay at your own level or higher. Would be great for top players too, coming up against the best all time will only improve your play.
You already pay for the game, paying for upgrades wont be such a big deal, you wont be that disadvantaged since your opponents are at same level. If you get enough points to get a tempest then it levels you up so you will be competing against similar planes and players.
Yes it will destroy the game as it is, but time and falling subs is doing that anyway. There is no alternative Aces must adapt or die. Be a part of the solution, don't just be an old stick in the mud hater.
Ya, when these other games your talking about with this "pay as you go" are around after 10 years, we'll talk.
I don't think HTC subscription rates fluctuate that much. Sure a year or so ago we had more players and had to split into 2 main arenas. But for all those other years we had about the same numbers. If HTC has been happy for 10 years at this level what makes you think they wish to grow so much more?
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I prefer a flat fee. For my part I am much more likely to play a game in which I pay a fixed monthly amount like AH or WoW than I am to play any of the MMOs that have gone Free to Play, Pay to have fun.
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Ya, when these other games your talking about with this "pay as you go" are around after 10 years, we'll talk.
I don't think HTC subscription rates fluctuate that much. Sure a year or so ago we had more players and had to split into 2 main arenas. But for all those other years we had about the same numbers. If HTC has been happy for 10 years at this level what makes you think they wish to grow so much more?
If they were happy the way the are then why beta test an achievement system? In fact why do they advertise if they are happy at this level of Subs. The evidence and common sense don't back up your statement. It will make no difference to the present players, we are already high up in lvls, only difference for us is that we wouldn't come across total noobies until they skill up.
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Aces used to be $29.99. Todays price is easy compared to that.
Helm ...out
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Is this one of the newer generation of players who have been asking HTC to port the game to note pads and smart phones so they can play it as a java script easy mode game in Facebook?
This is like asking for the free HtH arenas back again except now the OP wants 600 players per free arena instead of 8 restricted to a base toy set. Yes you would get an intitial 30X to 50X increase in use traffic for the novelty. But, unless HTC dumbs the game down including castrating the physics modeling which takes a laptop or PC to crunch the environment math to the level of Donkey Kong. And your controller is an xBox tumb twitch pad or less. Very few of those passing through are going to pay extra to get their noses dunked in the dirt when they can stick with the base offering for free and get their noses dunked. Under this circumstance AH will be no better, or worse than World of War Planes or War Thunder.
In a free base model format by definition the game will have to be a restricted environment with limited toys and limited possibilities unless you have cash you don't worry about spending towards a tiered game culture based on personal economics. The current subscription model in it's accused antiquated form is up front and honest about what you are expected to pay each month allowing the player in the real world to budget for the future. Due to this every time you login you have equaly unlimited possiblities because only the perk system is keeping you from a tiny number of toys. Otherwise you have the equal ability to wage war at all times limited only by your ability to play the game and not the differences in your disposable income.
Hellwolf why do you want this game ported into Facebook? Anything you present about HTC's business model is a canard. You don't have access to HTC's books. Do you work for another game company?
HTC over the past 10 years has constantly experimented with some form of beta testing large and small. Do you remember the beta arenas a few years back? Didn't work out all that well. HTC has been taking longer to release new updates that seem more stable since then. The award system appears more sailent to the last few years of conversations on the BBS expressing a consensus that strat's and bombers active impact to the game needed to be changed and a new format for motivation was needed. Changes to the game play can be seen as HTC listening to ongoing BBS conversations and based on observations over "time" conceeding that the player base has a point. It's been an observable phenomenon over the last decade.
So why do you want the game dumbed down and ported to Facebook?
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If they were happy the way the are then why beta test an achievement system? In fact why do they advertise if they are happy at this level of Subs. The evidence and common sense don't back up your statement. It will make no difference to the present players, we are already high up in lvls, only difference for us is that we wouldn't come across total noobies until they skill up.
Ever heard of keeping up with the Joneses??
Aside from the scoring system and the timestamp on your forum account there really isn't much "prestige" in this game... and we all know the scoring system doesn't really evaluate your true skill.
While an achievement system doesn't either, there's less room for BS "I once caught a fish :O (this) big" stories. Is this system gonna make me keep my account longer? Not any more than the 3,000 people who hold an account cause they have for the last 5 years... and they love this game.
It's fluff. Plain and simple. As all the above have stated HTC is cool with where we are as a game. I would love to fly in the arena with 700 other people at the same time, but the grass isn't always greener there either.Unfortunately while your model would make HT rich it would kill the game as we know it. Noob players would need heavy concessions in playability such as constant F3 view etc. Any spins would be out of the question and flight model would have to support easy mouse flying.
I'm also personally very against the pay as you play model because I hate the idea that someone shells out cash just to get uberweapons that give an unfair advantage. I prefer to play a flat fee to get a flat playground for everyone.
I 7th your post.
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Buster......
I dont work for another game company, in fact im disabled and spend all my time at home playing games.
I dont want to go facebook, and facebook not a requirement of this model, but this type of game is advertised on facebook
Im just stating that it appears that is the reason behind a reward system.
I dont own a mobile phone let alone an ipad!
I have been playing AH for 3 years since Fighter ace closed down.
Why did fighter ace close down, they were just like AH today, stagnate subs, therfore no room to improve therfore lost subs and a downward spiral.
Notice that the vehement reaction to this model is from long time players who have something to loose, ie their ability to rank highly each month.
I would prefer that this doesnt happen to AH I can just see the writing on the wall, was a post to perhaps prepare you for the change and I love watching you stalwarts cry and moan at any new ideas.
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These threads amuse me because there is so much assumption from the creator and their plan is based on these assumptions, regardless if they're correct or not. For example, the OP mentions "5,000" subscribers and then details how to gain more based on the number he pulled out of his arse, which results in a flawed model because its not based on any factual numbers.
Why did fighter ace close down, they were just like AH today, stagnate subs, therfore no room to improve therfore lost subs and a downward spiral.
And you know AH is suffering from "stagnate accounts" because....? Again, you're pulling this out of your arse like your "5,000 subscribers" number. You have no facts to base either statement on. Only HiTech and crew at HTC know these numbers and they don't share this information with the player base.
Notice that the vehement reaction to this model is from long time players who have something to loose, ie their ability to rank highly each month.
I would prefer that this doesnt happen to AH I can just see the writing on the wall, was a post to perhaps prepare you for the change and I love watching you stalwarts cry and moan at any new ideas.
People that are against your business model aren't against it because we're afraid we will no longer be able to rank highly each month, most of us don't give a rat's arse about rank or score. However, some of us that do know the gaming industry know that the majority of F2P games fail and aren't a guaranteed source of revenue or subscribers. You're asking HiTech to ditch a proven business model with one that doesn't guarantee success or profit.
ack-ack
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I agree that the subscription model is pretty much dead these days. Blizzard are still keeping it going with some success, but really the future seems to be in free to play, pay for new content/cosmetic upgrades type models...for better or worse
However I don't see that working for AH...
It'd be great to bump up the player base, and it could possibly lead to a lot of good things. Mostly I'm thinking of more competition.
BUT the thing is, most people who are up for playing a f2p game do not have joysticks and I don't think many would be prepared to get one just to try out something new. So either we bump up the population with a bunch of GV players (bleh), or the gameplay has to be dumbed down for mouse users.
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well ack ack its not hard to work out approximately how many subs there are, even 100% out and there are 10000 subs makes no difference. still not a million. You are also working in the dark, who is to say that Aces past business model will still be profitable and growing in the future, if the business is not growing above inflation rate then its going backward, not saying this is happening, just that innovation is the only way to grow. You all have said that HT is happy at this level, your own assumption that suits your own ends. It seems logical that growth in a company is one of the main goals and reasons for trading. Sure there are some boutique businesses that fill a niche, but in the present global economy they tend to get swallowed up by the big players. Im not saying this is my idea or wish or desire in any way!!! So don't post with the assumption I have some cross to bear or agenda i want push. This is just an observation that Aces high will probably have to move to modern funding model of games. If its good enough it will survive, if it isn't then it dies.
A joystick should not be a requirement for playing at lower levels and would be a good intro for new players, u want to move up some more levels then buy a stick! What difference will it possibly make to you if lower levels have or don't have a stick, they will be up against other players at same level and same issues. If you don't care about rank and are just interested in the "fight" then this model should suit you down to ground, you will only be up against the better players, you wont have to complain about Hos or running ever again, since in order to reach your exulted level Hos and running just wont get you there. Seems like your more worried about running out of easy targets lol.
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two words: apples, oranges.
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Seems like your more worried about running out of easy targets lol.
If I wanted easy targets, I'd just hunt you and your squadron mates down in the MW arena but I want a game that will stick around and moving to a F2P model doesn't guarantee that.
As I mentioned, a vast number of F2P games fail within the first year of operation, so moving to a F2P business model doesn't equal an influx of cash or players. The best F2P business models are ones that incorporate a hybrid model that is both made up of F2P and paid subscription elements with the goal of moving F2P subscriptions into a paid one, an example of a good working hybrid model is the one used by Turbine for LoTRO and D&D Online.
well ack ack its not hard to work out approximately how many subs there are, even 100% out and there are 10000 subs makes no difference. still not a million.
Using your method, you're not going to get an accurate number of paying AH subscribers because you really can't figure out the number by using the roster. Let's use Air Warrior as an example. When AW closed down, a lot thought it was because of low subscriber numbers that caused EA to pull the plug. People were basing their facts on the numbers they'd see online and figured it was only a few thousand, if that many. In fact, at the time AW was shut down it had slightly over 38,000 paying subscribers and it was EA's second largests (in terms of subscription numbers) online game, only behind Ultima Online. As you can see, basing paying subscriber numbers only on what you see population wise in game isn't enough to base or let alone make an assumption on how many a paying subscribers the game has.
ack-ack
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:rofl :rofl :rofl HTC, just don't accept any government funding. The game will go down the tubes for sure! :rofl :rofl :rofl
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So ack ack Ea threw away a perfectly well subscribed and profitable business by ditchin AW. Now that makes perfect sense. If they were getting out for other reasons then why didnt someone snap up such a good model with so many subs?
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So ack ack Ea threw away a perfectly well subscribed and profitable business by ditchin AW. Now that makes perfect sense. If they were getting out for other reasons then why didnt someone snap up such a good model with so many subs?
Because EA wouldn't at the time, nor will they now sell the IP rights. The reason why EA purchased Kesmai (developers and studio behind AW) was because EA at the time was creating their fledging online portal (EA.com) for all of their online and MMO games and needed the assets from Kesmai (i.e. community tools and most importantely the Aries Netcode used by AW and other Kesmai games) and once they got those, they axed the game because to keep it would have entailed spending money on continued development of the AW IP which EA wasn't willing to invest in because of other, more "mainstream" games they were developing at the time.
ack-ack
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Because EA wouldn't at the time, nor will they now sell the IP rights. The reason why EA purchased Kesmai (developers and studio behind AW) was because EA at the time was creating their fledging online portal (EA.com) for all of their online and MMO games and needed the assets from Kesmai (i.e. community tools and most importantely the Aries Netcode used by AW and other Kesmai games) and once they got those, they axed the game because to keep it would have entailed spending money on continued development of the AW IP which EA wasn't willing to invest in because of other, more "mainstream" games they were developing at the time.
ack-ack
Not willing to invest = no profit for amount of investment, you just proved my point
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Case in point, me. Other than for a few really tight months in 2010 I have had a continuous subscription since Aces High v1.03 was released. I very rarely play nowadays.
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Not willing to invest = no profit for amount of investment, you just proved my point
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uRlNDK_Z03o/TqwNcqfvgsI/AAAAAAAAANo/Wes3uDQUSwQ/s1600/ImpliedFacepalm.jpg)
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Hellwolf, no offense but your idea sucks. AH was here long before you started playing and will likely be here long after you've moved on to some crappy F2P AH wannabe. :cheers:
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Hellwolf, no offense but your idea sucks. AH was here long before you started playing and will likely be here long after you've moved on to some crappy F2P AH wannabe. :cheers:
Ok i give up you dont get it, ITS NOT MY IDEA. I just suggested that AH may be headed this way, stated some advantages to this system. I'm not here to defend that model, just saying that's the model that is most common now days and the reward/achievement is an integral part of the model and AH are trialing it. Was just putting 2+2 together is all. So far posts are just poo pooing the idea. Well I happen to agree that this model wont suit the present player base. However it may suit HT. The ad hominem attacks on my motives, the you haven't been here long enough to even suggest an idea, the what would you know about the gaming world, is exactly the attitude i expect from you guys and one of the reasons this game will eventually fail with customers like you calling the shots.
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Not willing to invest = no profit for amount of investment, you just proved my point
EA mentality at the time (and still today) is that they are looking for the "big game", and at the time the "big game" to beat was Everquest and EA was desperate for game that would bring in the numbers that EQ was bringing in for SOE (Sony Online Entertainment) but they needed a backbone infastructure to handle it, which is where Kesmai came into the picture because they had the assets to provide that backbone to EA. AW wouldn't bring in the numbers that EQ was bringing in during that time, nor would any of the games EA was also developing for their online portal, so at the time they took a step back from the MMO business because EA's endeavors weren't paying off at all for the money they were investing in their other games and failed development of the Ultima Online franchise.
While AW did have 38,000 paying subscribers when it was shut down, EA thought they'd be able to recover those lost subscriptions with their other games they were developing at the time, namely Motor City Online, which they forcasted to have over 100k+ paying subscribers. So the decision was made to cease further development, not because AW wasn't a money generator anymore but because EA really had no clue about the online/MMO gaming market, which we still see evidence of today with their failures with Warhammer Online and Star Wars Old Republic.
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EA really had no clue about the online/MMO gaming market,
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Wow and accuse me of making assumptions about someone else's business. lol You really have no hubris at all
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EA really had no clue about the online/MMO gaming market,
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Wow and accuse me of making assumptions about someone else's business. lol You really have no hubris at all
Considering I've been working in the gaming industry for close to 18 years now and 13 of those spent working on MMOs, I kind of think I know more about the business than someone with no experience in it.
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I kind of think I know more about the business than someone with no experience in it.
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Now you make an assumption that I have no experience. Well stick with your assumptions. I will let this thread die, not interested in discussing my or your attributes just wanted to point out a POSSIBLE reason for the achievements. But as usual you and your fellow verbose posters in the forums just want to beat down any new player any new idea any conversation that doesn't pander your ego, bye bye.
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Ok i give up you dont get it, ITS NOT MY IDEA. I just suggested that AH may be headed this way, stated some advantages to this system. I'm not here to defend that model, just saying that's the model that is most common now days and the reward/achievement is an integral part of the model and AH are trialing it. Was just putting 2+2 together is all. So far posts are just poo pooing the idea. Well I happen to agree that this model wont suit the present player base. However it may suit HT. The ad hominem attacks on my motives, the you haven't been here long enough to even suggest an idea, the what would you know about the gaming world, is exactly the attitude i expect from you guys and one of the reasons this game will eventually fail with customers like you calling the shots.
You are speculating that HTC will ditch a successful business model to go F2P because of the acheivement system (which is obviously just something to give newer players a direction and acheivable goals to keep them interested long enough until they become competent) and that is a big reach. You are also getting very irritated in your nether regions from people disagreeing with your "bustr-esque" OP. Don't post if you can't handle criticism. With the other flashy F2P combat games already out, how could AH survive against them as a F2P? The entire game would have to be scrapped because most of the plane graphics don't compare and the game can't be picked up in one sitting. They would effectively ditch their current clientele and go after a million squeakers? You are not going to see that happen unless HTC sells the company.
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bye bye.
+1
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World of Warcraft has had a very robust achievement system for years now and shows no sign of going to a Free to Play, Pay to Win model. Oh, I am sure it will eventually, when its subscriber base dwindles, but for now and the foreseeable future it will be a subscription based game. I would be very surprised if Blizzard's Project Titan is not also going to be subscription based and have a robust achievement system.
In short, don't read too much into HTC's achievement system.
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"...that is a big reach."
Probably is a big reach, that was the point of the thread, to discuss the idea.
"You are also getting very irritated in your nether regions from people disagreeing with your "bustr-esque" OP. Don't post if you can't handle criticism."
Irritated because discussion is not about the idea but are ad hominem attacks on my skill, motives or real life experience.
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All you guys are right just putting this out there i had tryed WOT and the pay to win thing sucked and my frame rate was only 3 so the games like that are just not a good idea. What HTC has now is sucessful and hopfully stays that way, and to elaborate on my view on pay to win it`s very unfair and for people who cant pay for that stuff, so the current perk system for this game is a very good idea. Btw wolf i do see that you were trying to help but it`s just not gonna work if HTC wants to they will <Salute> -Komet
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All you guys are right just putting this out there i had tryed WOT and the pay to win thing sucked and my frame rate was only 3 so the games like that are just not a good idea. What HTC has now is sucessful and hopfully stays that way, and to elaborate on my view on pay to win it`s very unfair and for people who cant pay for that stuff, so the current perk system for this game is a very good idea. Btw wolf i do see that you were trying to help but it`s just not gonna work if HTC wants to they will <Salute> -Komet
thank you for such a nice, honest post. You put your idea and opinion across without a single sneer or snide remark. :salute
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Now you make an assumption that I have no experience. Well stick with your assumptions. I will let this thread die, not interested in discussing my or your attributes just wanted to point out a POSSIBLE reason for the achievements. But as usual you and your fellow verbose posters in the forums just want to beat down any new player any new idea any conversation that doesn't pander your ego, bye bye.
Another possible reason could be that it's just another way to play the game. Some like to go for score, some like to win the war, some like to just fight until there is no fight left, other like to go for achievements. Of course something as simple as another avenue of game play couldn't be a possibility.... could it?
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from people disagreeing with your "bustr-esque" OP.
Hey I resemble that. I've been cutting back. My brain hurts inventing some of this stuff...........you think green monkey's just fly outta my kester on cue??????
Drive-by texting style mental meth is as bad for your brain as building a tower of babel with no intention of supporting any part of it with real world data and linked peer review positions from the given industry. The OP cannot support his attempt to get god's attention and runs away accusing his questioners of "bad faith" when he's grilled over the specifics. That is too easy and he already knew what most of you would reply with at the start while creating an overly broad construct to hide his real intention in.
Why does he want Aces High ported to Facebook and turned into a free app as his solution to a non existant subscription problem? Everything else is smoke and mirrors while he couldn't give a ratz kester if any of you are Hitech himself using a shade account to dialoge with him.
He is not "trolling" you. This is an exercise in offering you a red ball or green ball becasue he really wants you to take the blue ball later by agreeing to "an offer" as a first step in creating a following from his audience. Those who agree with him are labeled considerate and understanding and those whole challenge him are dismissed as disagreeable and of no consiquence to the conversation allowing him to avoid rigorous peer review. The Facebook construct of "free to play" is the blue ball.
Either he or other new players have asked HTC to consider the Facebook "free to play" in the last year in the Wishlist section and got a corus of crickets from HTC. This will probably not be the last attempt to get a "free to play" version of AH put up somewhere on the Internet in a virtual community. How many stragglers have we gotten still asking what happened to the free HtH arenas from the old days?
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I'd pay a wee bit more if it meant hiring help for "coading" more aircraft and gv's. :D The flat fee for everything is what I prefer.
I think HTC is doing a good job as is.
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This is absurd. :bolt:
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You all have said that HT is happy at this level, your own assumption that suits your own ends.
Really?
Aces High Home Page/Company Information/About us:
Welcome to HiTech Creations, Inc.
HiTech Creations was founded with a simple philosophy by Dale "HiTech" Addink in 1999. It's not to create a large corporation, a vast gaming network, or a line of online games. It's just to create one game, but one that is better than any other like it. Contrary to most companies, our goal is to keep the company small. We know that with a singular focus and an experienced cohesive team that enjoys its work, the production, service, support, and overall level of satisfaction will be unmatched.
Link: http://www.hitechcreations.com/HiTech-Creations/Customer-Relations/gameinfo-aboutus-art.html (http://www.hitechcreations.com/HiTech-Creations/Customer-Relations/gameinfo-aboutus-art.html)
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BUT the thing is, most people who are up for playing a f2p game do not have joysticks and I don't think many would be prepared to get one just to try out something new. So either we bump up the population with a bunch of GV players (bleh), or the gameplay has to be dumbed down for mouse users.
I think you may point at one of the true issue of these days (and even more so in the future). The lack of a joystick, and a reduction of players genuinely interested in the WW2 air combat theme. How many players (I'm not talking about AH ones) still have a joystick sitting on their desk today?
The big change in GV controls last year was done to make this game more accessible to new players. And as any game, AH needs a constant supply of them.
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People that are against your business model aren't against it because we're afraid we will no longer be able to rank highly each month, most of us don't give a rat's arse about rank or score. However, some of us that do know the gaming industry know that the majority of F2P games fail and aren't a guaranteed source of revenue or subscribers. You're asking HiTech to ditch a proven business model with one that doesn't guarantee success or profit.
ack-ack
Two system can co-exist quite well. BTW HTC were working on the second system - remember Combat Tour and what HT told about it
The CT design was never secret. It encompassed 3 main components.
1. Is the RPG aspect in that your character would advance his skills.
2. Was the idea that there would be not be open arena play, all play would be mission based with multiple mission to choose from at any time, each starting at a regular interval, I.E. new missions would start at every at 1:00 1:15 1:30 1:45 ....
3. For every offensive mission there would be a defensive mission of the opposing side. Any spots not filled by players would be filled by AI.
HiTech
Now if you have a look at War Thunder Full Realism Arena - you see that is exactly what HT were talking about.
1. Advancing in ranks for players / getting access to better planes
2. Server assigns players to missions balancing sides. (Actually it takes only couple of minutes of waiting before you are assigned to mission, not 15 minutes)
3. If there are not enough players in the pool (after hours time) server assigns planes controlled by AI to mission on both sides to prevent people to stay for too long awaiting.
Add to this that it is full realism arena with no F3 view, no icons for enemy planes (friendly icons only for less then 1k), no stall limiters - and you get quite challenging and interesting setup to play with especially if you feel bored with Main Arena. Similar system in AH could work pretty well even for quite experienced players.
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I think you may point at one of the true issue of these days (and even more so in the future). The lack of a joystick, and a reduction of players genuinely interested in the WW2 air combat theme. How many players (I'm not talking about AH ones) still have a joystick sitting on their desk today?
The big change in GV controls last year was done to make this game more accessible to new players. And as any game, AH needs a constant supply of them.
Looks like this problem has been solved in War Thunder as well by implementing the arcade arenas for the newbies where they can control planes with mouse pretty much effectively (they only give directions and the rest is performed by internal AI which actually controls the plane). People who yesterday played World of Tanks are playing War Thunder now having tons of fun. They are thrilled and they do not mind to pay money for later war planes which makes the game an ultimate money generator for developers.
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Hey guys don't bust hellwolfs chops just for bringing up an idea.
We all agree that anything that could support HTC is a good thing, right? As long as it happens without destroying the product.
Maybe there could be a free-to-play arena that you could try, then subscribe to the real one if you like it? Perhaps a 2 week free trial, anyone? :banana:
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I agree in most parts. I think ah should keep the achievements that you get if you do something useful like destroying objects or capture fields. But those achievements that is worthless in the game, like jumping in a jeep is just ridiculous and should be taken out of the list. Otherwise there is a risk that this game will lose its touch of reality. I know its far from reality now, but it gives a taste of it and thats what I like with ah. If ah continue with this ridiculous achievements system they likely can create spawn points for planes where spawn campers can fly around and get tons of kills. Maybe no one gives a sh-t, but I hope they bring back the taste of reality again.
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maybe just keep it simple,
Open up WW1 as free to play. It gets people to download the game, boosts numbers and sorts out control issues.
Then when they want to explore $8 a month for DA access, $12 for everywhere else and $15 for MA.
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Yes that is the new game model. Planet Side 2 (and many Steam based games) have adopted it. I think it does work for some games though. Those who pay get a great boost in potential uber weapon acquisitions.
Ya, when these other games your talking about with this "pay as you go" are around after 10 years, we'll talk.
Yep. +1 to not following the current trend. AH would give up a solid income base demographic for a spike based macro profit model. Kinda like the old record\CD and movie markets. An album\movie comes out and makes great profit (hopefully) in the short term then dies off. Repeat. They'd need much more staff to use that business model anyway. :old:
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Pay as you go like world of tanks and i would be out of here :bolt:
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Does the payment model effect the gameplay? No.
Does the number of players effect the gameplay? Yes.
Quite a simple issue really...
If you are currently paying 180 dollars a year for Aces high, if they went free to play, how many higher tier planes would that money's worth give you? A question to think about...
I do like bruv's approach; as its what most of us deep down have been thinking for years! Make everything but the MA free! So to generate interest in the game in general to provide a solid "crowd attracts a crowd" who will eventually move on to the MA.
But maybe instead of bickering, we could think up a completely "new" payment type model that HTC can use as its own? (Like pay-per flight replacing perk planes [would require a whole new rating system])
On a side note, making things free cheapens one's vision of your product; would HT really be up for doing that?
If anything, I think HT is scared of being a huge success and the issues that come with it (its why he keeps things small and managable). Money and influence corrupts and destroys things very easily!
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maybe just keep it simple,
Open up WW1 as free to play. It gets people to download the game, boosts numbers and sorts out control issues.
Then when they want to explore $8 a month for DA access, $12 for everywhere else and $15 for MA.
This might be something to consider - even if that would mean a big bunch of freeloaders. Too bad that some morons had to ruin H2H for everyone.
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The achievement system is simply to give players something different to do when they feel like something different. No more no less. It has absolutely nothing to do with any type of a different payment system/business model.
If I was ever to do a WOT type payment system, I sure would not choose a realism base WWII aircraft to do it with.
HiTech
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If I was ever to do a WOT type payment system, I sure would not choose a realism base WWII aircraft to do it with.
...but...but....but....If I were to pay enough money....I could buy a really competent pilot to fly my plane!
Hey, the Chinese did that in 1941, so it's realism-based!
- oldman
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These threads amuse me because there is so much assumption from the creator and their plan is based on these assumptions, regardless if they're correct or not. For example, the OP mentions "5,000" subscribers and then details how to gain more based on the number he pulled out of his arse, which results in a flawed model because its not based on any factual numbers.
I believe Lusche has generated player reports that show the number of active accounts. I believe the number was around 4k-5k.
But I don't that the achievements will be part of a new funding system. I do think that dispite everyone claiming no one plays for score, many who play like to have goals, or set goals for themselves to keep the game interesting. This formalizes that, and socializes it so as to get more players involved in it. I think it will remind players of other aspects of the game and create more mission diversity for each player. I think that can only be a benefitial impact on gameplay. Also, I do believe that the newer genration of gamers are used to the achievement model and this has the potential to help them connect with the game a little faster, also a good thing.
But it's also just fun. And I think HTC is always lookin for ways to make the game more fun. In fact just a couple of days ago, someone joked about how there should be an achievement for landing a Lanc on a carrier. Withina few hours BatFink posted a film of himslef landing a Lanc on a carrier, re-arming it and taking back off. I watched the vid with stunned amusement, and then laughed my butt of for ten minutes. For me, that already made the achievement system worth it! they are also a chance to learn a lot about history. Many are modelled after many of the great feats accomplished by the great flyers of the war. This keeps their accomplishments alive, and in rememberence, and sends me scrambling to the internet to look up who many of them are. While a fan of the era and machines, I am not the historian that many who play here are, and it's nice to see this history play a bigger part in the game. I think this is an overlooked aspect of what the achievement system can bring to the community. :salute
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I believe Lusche has generated player reports that show the number of active accounts. I believe the number was around 4k-5k.
I would have to hack HTC's business server to get any data on 'active accounts' ;)
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I would have to hack HTC's business server to get any data on 'active accounts' ;)
True, I think the assumption is that the vast majority of paying customers, would have at least a sortie or two that would show up in your records. So your numbers must be close...true? :salute
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True, I think the assumption is that the vast majority of paying customers, would have at least a sortie or two that would show up in your records. So your numbers must be close...true? :salute
I only can see the number of pilot ID's with at least one kill or death in a tour. I don't know how many of these are on free trial only, I don't know how many have just changed their ID, how many are secondary or 'shade' ID's and I don't know how many holders of active accounts play only once in a blue moon.
By further breaking down and cross-analyzing the data I could make some educated guesses, which would probably be more 'educated' than those of other folks here... but they still would be just that: Guesses, based on several assumptions. ;)
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I only can see the number of pilot ID's. I don't know how many of these are on free trial only, I don't know how many have just changed their ID and I don't know how many holders of active accounts play only once in a blue moon.
By further breaking down and cross-analyzing the data I could make some educated guesses, which would probably be more 'educated' than those of other folks here... but they still would be just that: Guesses, based on several assumptions. ;)
OK, I just wanted to back up the guy up that I don't think he pulled that number out of his "bleep". All of what you mentioned would make the number of ID higher than the number of paying customers. So the ID number would be the top of the box. If I recall correctly, I think you stated 5k Ids. But if it's a trade secret... :salute
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I believe that the new achievement system is a precursor for a new funding model for Aces high.
The most serious problem for hitech or in fact any business is how to increase profits and increase the customer base. The way Aces is set up at the moment, it has and will prove difficult to achieve these goals. At the moment there are about 5000 subscriptions. How do you maintain your customer base and increase those numbers? Under the present subscription model, advertising is the only possible solution, however even if the advertising is successful, and say for instance attracts 1000 new players to a two week free trial, how does AH convert any of those new players to the subscription model? The huge learning curve the game requires IN combination with the current scoring and rank system is not conducive to new players staying. I see some noobies flying 10s if not hundreds of sorties to get a kill. This is obviously discouraging and sends many potential customers away. The new "achievements" solve this problem nicely. Humans are hard wired to become addicted to tasks that provide small and continuous rewards. Poker machines are designed to exploit this fact very effectively. Lots of bells and whistles even for little payouts compel the player to continue under the false assumption they are gaining something. The parallel with the new achievement system is obvious, getting 3 secs of airtime in a jeep is totally unrelated to any part of AH, but is a fun and achievable reward for a player. Other achievements are obviously designed to improve game play, getting a kill in every plane, or killing 1 of every type of plane, encourages the use of of many of the wonderful older planes that at the moment are just a waste of space. How many spit1s do u see in the LW arena? The new model will see a plethora of new planes and gvs in use. This will spell the end of the current scoring system. Rank will be in the future based on the number of achievement goals that are met. Why do this?
The basic idea behind this new system is i believe the beta test for removing subs altogether. Most games on the net do not follow the antiquated subscription model or even buy the CD model. Gaming on the net has evolved to "free to play, pay for upgrades". So for instance, as a noobie you have access to say a P51b, after gaining perks or "gold" or some such counter from either ticking off of achievements or and here is the important bit, you can buy the plane straight up!! might cost a dollar say to have access to P51D, an extra dollar if you want 1000lb bomb load out etc, might be $15.00 for a 262, not every time u up one but just to get access to the model. When plane is lost or damaged it will cost a certain amount of achievment "gold" or cash for repair/ replacement.
The advantage of this scoring/revenue stream is that the potential market is now HUGE. Many games i play online follow this model and have 100s of thousands if not millions of players!!! Makes the 5000 subs look like a waste of time. 1 game i play on facebook, had a special event this week (they usually run 1-2 times a month) the prizes would be similar to gaining a 262 or a tempest for your hanger, I couldn't believe the number of players talking about how much they spent, some more than $200 over a weekend, and for what? A stupid fairly cheesy simple flash game that provides those same rewards for free if you spend the time and effort to get them. This game has 1.8 million players!!!! If only 0.5 % of those players spent $15.00 per month that's twice the turnover of Aces high, and trust me a lot more than 0.5% spend money!
Another advantage for Hitech, a critical mass of players can be reached where advertising becomes more profitable and less necessary, and word of mouth or should i say the social network does all the advertising you need. Moderating the game becomes far less of a headache. At the moment hitech must moderate chat and player behavior closely so as not to offend its present customer base, a stalwart group that have well entrenched ideas and attitudes toward the game that makes any changes subject to intensive lobbying from the regular players. If the customer base numbers in the 100k plus range, it becomes of a bit of who cares what you say. A simple text filter and a watch for hacks is as far as moderating will go.
How will it affect the top raters and present players? Well for a start no subs. We should be at a skill level where most achievements will be easy for us, still hard for noobies. We wont have to spend any where near the amount of new players or I'm sure Hitech can organize it so that we end up spending about the same money per month. At least it will be our choice on how to spend those dollars, if we are not interested in a new Me410 then we just wont buy one, and market forces will determine where AH spends its R and D. At the moment they have to guess what we want then cop the complaints when they don't get it right. The new funding model will point Hitech in the right direction, if most peeps are spending money on P51ds, then that's the plane that should be upgraded first. New income will lead to improvements in quality of graphics etc. How could Hitech justify spending$ on graphic improvements now, if it really does not increase customer base enough to make it worth while. At the moment they are chasing their own tail, trying to keep the present players happy and yet spend money they probably don't have to advertise to customers who probably wont stay because the scoring rank reward system is designed to work against them. The scoring/rank system also creates many problems within the game, peeps getting angry cause a single death destroys their score for the month, that death may come at the hands of a noobie HO or collide and the noobie suffers the berating on chat and thinks why bother? If on the other hand that single death makes far less impact on a players overall achievements met or overall ranking, then less angst will be generated. This new model wont solve all the problems but will go a long way to ensuring AH continues in the future. Personally I love the new feature. Perhaps because i am used to playing other games under this model, they certainly cause me far less frustration than this game does.
What do you think?
Will it matter what you think?
5000 subs versus the potential millions of players is a no brainier.
If I am totally wrong sry Hitech.
If I am right would love to work for you and with you in the future Aces high!!!
You assume HTCs generates under a million US dollars in raw revenue a year with just AH, but is also thinking about changing the entire AH-world as we know it? :noid :headscratch: :confused: :rofl
(http://www.bored383.com/gallery/albums/Random/This_Thread_Delivers_UPS_Babe.sized.jpg)
(http://iforce.co.nz/i/vtekszob.sci.jpg)
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I think everyone's missing the big picture and aren't thinking outside of the box! I introduce AcesHiVille!
AH stays the same high quality, subscription based game but instead of flying over sterile terrain there are thousands of farms and fields of crops and horses and, yes, sheep. These farms are built by earth-bound F2P "citizens" (we will call them "The French") who not only get to build their farms and houses but also get to repair them when we drive tanks through or toss the occasional bomb the wrong direction. They'll have their own chess piece (a Pawn naturally) and get their bubblegumforthemind thrills with the added benefits of the "repair" and "rebuild" achievements. They get to sit on their porches and watch the air battle all while trying to survive in warzone. Heck, they can even bury the occasional neighbor or family member. HiTech will get his millions and AH will be subsidized by people that don't know the difference between a left and right click. We would also get to add "collateral damage" to our achievements list!
I see this as a "win-win."
Discuss.
:D
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To the original post:
The fact that you assume that simply changing the payment system is going to increase the global interest in vintage flight simming by a factor of millions is totaly beyond my comprehension
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The achievement system is simply to give players something different to do when they feel like something different. No more no less. It has absolutely nothing to do with any type of a different payment system/business model.
If I was ever to do a WOT type payment system, I sure would not choose a realism base WWII aircraft to do it with.
HiTech
Well, there ya go Hawker.
If this was a desperate cry for attention, you did well.
Either way this is the time where you say, "Well I can see I was completely wrong in my assumptions".
My expectations are very low on that happening based on your contrary statement to everyone that disagreed with you, who by the way seemed to be right in their assumptions.
I am not amused. I shall not assume what Hitech feels about your post.
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I believe Lusche has generated player reports that show the number of active accounts. I believe the number was around 4k-5k.
But I don't that the achievements will be part of a new funding system. I do think that dispite everyone claiming no one plays for score, many who play like to have goals, or set goals for themselves to keep the game interesting. This formalizes that, and socializes it so as to get more players involved in it. I think it will remind players of other aspects of the game and create more mission diversity for each player. I think that can only be a benefitial impact on gameplay. Also, I do believe that the newer genration of gamers are used to the achievement model and this has the potential to help them connect with the game a little faster, also a good thing.
But it's also just fun. And I think HTC is always lookin for ways to make the game more fun. In fact just a couple of days ago, someone joked about how there should be an achievement for landing a Lanc on a carrier. Withina few hours BatFink posted a film of himslef landing a Lanc on a carrier, re-arming it and taking back off. I watched the vid with stunned amusement, and then laughed my butt of for ten minutes. For me, that already made the achievement system worth it! they are also a chance to learn a lot about history. Many are modelled after many of the great feats accomplished by the great flyers of the war. This keeps their accomplishments alive, and in rememberence, and sends me scrambling to the internet to look up who many of them are. While a fan of the era and machines, I am not the historian that many who play here are, and it's nice to see this history play a bigger part in the game. I think this is an overlooked aspect of what the achievement system can bring to the community. :salute
I was thinking that when you click on a "history" achievement IE "down 352 in German iron" it will have a short summery of Hartmans story.....was gonna mention it....but figure everyone would say that's what school is for :rofl
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Got to love armchair business people. A huge reason people start their own private companies is so they can do it their way. Sure it might seem tyrannical to tell a perfectly good, money paying customer to "shove off", for not bending to their every demand. This is called the free market, if there are not enough customers then it won't succeed. However, in this case going to a trendy micro purchase model would kill the game. I encourage everyone to read the "About Us" section here:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/company-info/support-contactus
Speculating about a private companies revenue, and telling them how to spend it on marketing, assets, personnel etc. Is the internet equivalent of holding another mans unit and aiming it for him, while he relieves himself. I cringe every time I see it on the forum.
There is only one word to describe why Aces High exists... Passion. If you want the Zuckerberg, style model go play a game. To me this is a M.M.O.W.W.2.C.F.S.w.T.a.B. (Massive Multiplayer Online World War Two Combat Flight Sim with Tanks and Boats). So if you want to define success of AH with terms like venture capitalist, stock options and quarterly earnings. Why don't you go get your skinny jeans, put on your sneakers and ironically worn down looking blazer, head to Silicon Valley. Then, get you a venture capitalist, and see how much you get to run your "own" company. Don't forget to use the term "change the world", this is a must in Silicon Valley for start-ups.
On a side note EA is a terrible company, on many levels. Here is just the first thing that comes to mind:
http://venturebeat.com/2012/04/04/game-publisher-electronic-arts-is-voted-the-worst-company-in-america/
Skuzzy you like your job?
The forums are for many things, but for telling HiTech how to run his company is not one of them. What if he is just some random independently wealthy guy, who wanted his own virtual WWII battleground that he could share with people, and allowed them input to the evolution of the experience? While employing other people and giving them stable lives, doing what they love, with minimal government regulation due to its small business classification.
Quit talking about HiTech's wallet, didn't your mother teach you manors? :old:
HACK
<S>
P.S. Quarterly rant over... seems like this is becoming a habit
P.P.S. Just read mace2004's comment after posting this ROTFL :x
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Quit talking about HiTech's wallet, didn't your mother teach you manors? :old:
This particular talk did end almost two years ago. You just revived an old thread just to say that it should stop? :headscratch:
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Locked for violation of forum posting rule #10.