Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Torquila on December 25, 2012, 07:19:16 PM
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I wish bomber formations had a limited top speed to account for the "effort" taken to keep the formation.
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I agree with your point about formation flight but....
If you're going to limit the bombers speed you need to limit the fighters speed as well. A more realistic power management model would be great but hard to implement. R/L it isn't as simple as If engine ran hard for X minutes Y happens.
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I am not going to do anything, nor does symbolically allowing one thing mean that something else has to be allowed, what are we, brothers and HT is some sort of mother?
If you want to ride on the wave of an idea, i would suggest you start your own thread that mentions this concept and then adds your own twist to it.
Thanks.
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I agree with your point about formation flight but....
If you're going to limit the bombers speed you need to limit the fighters speed as well. A more realistic power management model would be great but hard to implement. R/L it isn't as simple as If engine ran hard for X minutes Y happens.
+10 for the idea, and +40 just to aggravate Torquila
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If conflict is all you seek then it is all you will find.
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well since planes can fly formation at mach+ speeds Torquila your suggestion is flawed. bombers in wwII flew fairly tight formations for hours and hours at a time. you could argue that the faster you fly the looser the formation is.
however colmbo has the better suggestion and it would do what you want - to slow bombers down. they may not be so easy to catch as the fighters would have to worry about destroying their engines too.
shdo
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shdo, I think you have the better suggestion, and its worthy of its own thread:
"the faster you fly the looser the formation is"
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"the faster you fly the looser the formation is"
+1 it seems a fair compromise
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The drones dont seem to follow the same performance rules as the manned plane. You can fly the lead at full throttle and the drones will still catch up. Limit them to the real performance and the leader will have to reduce throttle a bit to gather his formation. Only when he starts from a tight formation and open up in a straight line he will be able to keep that formation.
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As Hitech would say, "Ask for what you really want!!"
In this case, I want the buffs to be slowed because I can't catch them in my 410!
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I think this is a valid wish because it is very much true in AH that bombers drop ordnance at much faster speeds than they did in WWII. There are a number of liberties that HTC has taken in the name of game play (burn rate, map sises, etc) to help facilitate player interaction and to keep things in scale. Also, there is no wind and cloud obstruction is minimal with mostly non-existent.
With all that in mind, about the only thing I can suggest would be to not allow bombers to drop above X speed (say 260 TAS). But, the monkey wrench in all this is the speed in which the B29 must travel in order to stay in level flight which is above 300 TAS when it is loaded down with 20,000 worth of ordnance and full or nearly full fuel tanks. I know for a fact that my grandfather's B24D bombing runs were all done in the low 200's TAS, most of the drop's were below 8,000 ft, and he never saw 1000 lb bombs (most runs were done w 250 lb bombs). Granted, in the Solomon Islands of the South Pacific they were not worried about massive batteries of 88's and hordes of enemy fighters, they were more worried about weather, navigation, and range. Anyhow, I don't think a penalty can be applied to a flight of bombers but rather a restriction placed on the speed in which level bombing typically occurred. I bet HTC could "coed" in a limited on the bomb button. Thing is though how would they apply it across the board or on a per bomber basis?
This is one of those things to "be careful for what you wish for".
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He has taken these "liberties" because it's a game, not a sim, not real war, but a game.
You want a sim, there are a number of places you can fly....all by your self and flip the levers, and watch the lights come on and go off, even burn up your engine if you like, but you'll do it alone.
Here the game is tailored to fit as many people and play styles as possible. Slow the buffs down or make it more like "work" to fly them and you loose the buff guys, then you don't have buffs to shoot at, nor do you have any heavys helping you bomb a base for capture.
The point here is to allow the most people to do what they enjoy,,, not to be realistic about drop speeds/angles and such.
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He has taken these "liberties" because it's a game, not a sim, not real war, but a game.
You want a sim, there are a number of places you can fly....all by your self and flip the levers, and watch the lights come on and go off, even burn up your engine if you like, but you'll do it alone.
Here the game is tailored to fit as many people and play styles as possible. Slow the buffs down or make it more like "work" to fly them and you loose the buff guys, then you don't have buffs to shoot at, nor do you have any heavys helping you bomb a base for capture.
The point here is to allow the most people to do what they enjoy,,, not to be realistic about drop speeds/angles and such.
I agree with a lot of this.
If it's made too technical, even my interest in flying B17's in this game would begin to falter.
Having done a lot of B17 missions in the MA, what I have found is that it still seems quite balanced. One sortie might turn out to be a milkrun, another one might turn out to be quite a butt-kickin' for us by the "bad guys", etc..
I don't see a lot that needs tweaked.
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Well, if you can fly a formation of buff at max speed the 110g2 cant catch you, unlike RL.
The experienced ZG's formations did multiple high 12 -attacks on their intended victims.
In AH2 result : maximum one high-12 attack, and a tail-chase where 1.5k range shoot 110's to pieces before they even get a chance to attack.
At altitude Lancasters just farts, and fly away. :headscratch:
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Well, if you can fly a formation of buff at max speed the 110g2 cant catch you, unlike RL.
The experienced ZG's formations did multiple high 12 -attacks on their intended victims.
In AH2 result : maximum one high-12 attack, and a tail-chase where 1.5k range shoot 110's to pieces before they even get a chance to attack.
At altitude Lancasters just farts, and fly away. :headscratch:
Calibrate your throttle and allow yourself a tad more patience. ;)
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/components/com_ahplaneperf/genchart.php?p1=63&p2=31&pw=2>ype=0&gui=localhost&itemsel=GameData)
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I had to throw in a little comparison myself. :D
Just what's easier to catch, folks? ;)
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/components/com_ahplaneperf/genchart.php?p1=3&p2=31&pw=0>ype=0&gui=localhost&itemsel=GameData)
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"the faster you fly the looser the formation is"
:aok :aok :aok
-C+
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I had to throw in a little comparison myself. :D
Just what's easier to catch, folks? ;)
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/components/com_ahplaneperf/genchart.php?p1=3&p2=31&pw=0>ype=0&gui=localhost&itemsel=GameData)
you know that lanc chart is misleading right it goes above 24k with a load and flys nearly 10mph faster at 25k :airplane: <S> eggster
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In either case the chart is misleading. It is quite common to run into bomber formations that are doing 360mph. Even Lancs can do that. What is frustrating for the pilots that lack patience is trying to catch a bomber that is nose down and heading away from them at some unknown angle. It is frustrating because even a 100mph advantage will not put you out in front of the bomber instantly. And so pilots lacking patience will end up in the pocket of a bomber formation exactly where the bomber pilot wants them.
In other words our OP needs not only patience but a lot more experience before he sees the error of his ways. There is no other learning experience that will earn him the ability he is looking for.
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you know that lanc chart is misleading right it goes above 24k with a load and flys nearly 10mph faster at 25k :airplane: <S> eggster
(sigh..) Yeah, I suppose that's what I get for not playing enough. :P
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.. And again last night, Rooks saw our 24 sets of B17's (and some that joined outside the posted mission as bombers and escorts) coming for their factories, and were able begin engaging us an our escorts at 25K before we reached target. Quite a few Rook pilots (<S>, you guys :) ) demonstrated great tactics and patience on their attack angles and took a few of our bombers out. The fight continued all the way through until the last 190 was shot down shortly before we landed deep into our own territory.
I don't think much needs changed. We varied our speed in order to keep as many .50 calibre turrets as close as possible, so it was not an absolute full throttle mission. If it were, we would be spread out all over the map, and easier pickin's for the Rooks.
Great fun, everyone. <S>
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"the faster you fly the looser the formation is"
:aok :aok :aok
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When formations were newly added this was a problem that was "debugged" on some formations.
Seems to me that drones often "outperform" the lead plane to return to formation after a manouvre. Simply disable this such that the lead has to slow to allow drones to regain formation after a manouvre.
Equally some times they under perform........ particularly when the lead plane is making rudder orientated manouvres.
This varies with AC and whilst obviously the FM has its role the abilties of e.g Boston drone pilits seem somewhat more enhanced over e.g. B17 drone pilits.
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If conflict is all you seek then it is all you will find.
When you can walk the rice paper without leaving a tread, only then are you ready to leave your footsteps upon the world.
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I've oiled 1 or 2 engines on both drones and landed yak for rearm, climbed back up, and found the drones keeping up with the piloted center plane 15 minutes later.
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When you can walk the rice paper without leaving a tread, only then are you ready to leave your footsteps upon the world.
Understood.
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I've oiled 1 or 2 engines on both drones and landed yak for rearm, climbed back up, and found the drones keeping up with the piloted center plane 15 minutes later.
you can drop alt, rearm then catch up to a bomber at full speed in 15 minutes? I cant even catch up to a bomber at 1k alt if I bailed out and and got a new plane as it flew by at full speed.
midway
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I remember a while back, when a drone lost one engine, it would fall behind (back when I first started playing). Now, if it loses one engine, it's able to keep up as if nothing was wrong. If it loses TWO engines however, it will fall behind like it had lost TWO engines. :noid
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you can drop alt, rearm then catch up to a bomber at full speed in 15 minutes? I cant even catch up to a bomber at 1k alt if I bailed out and and got a new plane as it flew by at full speed.
midway
Yep......because he was at 12k feet and I was in a yak9 which can climb very well while matching the speed of the buffs.
I also got a half sector lead in letting down.
Maybe you should tighten up your game to include techniques influenced by knowledge of basic physics.
Or you could ask snailman how often I have intercepted his b29s in a single mission.
Sure, I only caused minor damage and was only able to arrange a dead six pass but I do make the intercept multiple times.
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Yep......because he was at 12k feet and I was in a yak9 which can climb very well while matching the speed of the buffs.
I also got a half sector lead in letting down.
Maybe you should tighten up your game to include techniques influenced by knowledge of basic physics.
Or you could ask snailman how often I have intercepted his b29s in a single mission.
Sure, I only caused minor damage and was only able to arrange a dead six pass but I do make the intercept multiple times.
sure you can intercept anybody if you up from a base in front of them, that's not a biggie but you won't catch up to a b29 within 15 minutes of taking off as it passes over the base you are taking off from.
I find it hard to believe that you will catch up to any bomber within 15 minutes of breaking off, rearming then climb back up to altitude unless you get them on the return trip.
You can catch up to them given enough time but not within 15 minutes unless of course you call catch up seeing them in the distance.
midway
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I find it hard to believe that you will catch up to any bomber within 15 minutes of breaking off, rearming then climb back up to altitude unless you get them on the return trip.
Of course you won't catch high altitude bombers in 15mins, but at low/mid levels you can. A 109K takes merely 3 minutes to get to 11k, with still 7 minutes of WEP left. In that time a heavy bomber will typically have traveled 12 miles and the 109 7 miles. So the bomber is only about 5 miles away, which is easy to catch up in the 109k in the remaining 12 minutes.
:old:
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Next he will claim I can't fly a 2 hour ta152 mission or a 1 hour spitfire mission without refueling.
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Next he will claim I can't fly a 2 hour ta152 mission or a 1 hour spitfire mission without refueling.
the spitfire 1 hour mission is easy. done it many times.
midway