Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: katanaso on January 08, 2013, 07:45:52 PM
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Wanted to share this, from another board:
http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=FL0113-143167&entryRow=10&GROUP_ID=10104
and
http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=FL0113-143449&utm_source=delivra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=FL0113_S121
Just awesome. :rock
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Sweet! :rock
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Nice cars for sure but damn they're awful proud of them to be asking that much money. They'll be lucky to get 100K
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Waste of money.
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between them thats 11,000 miles in 86yrs.
what a waste of car.
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Waste of money.
The person who buys this car has money to waste.
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Nice cars for sure but damn they're awful proud of them to be asking that much money. They'll be lucky to get 100K
Have you ever watched that auction? They will have no trouble getting that kind of money for them. There are an amazing number of idiots out there that have no clue as to what to do with their money an so they bid against each other for these cars. Which they will no doubt stick in a garage some place to hold on to for awhile before selling it to some other idiot.
Cars are to be driven.
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gorgeous cars. it's ashame they were never really good street performers.....
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gorgeous cars. it's ashame they were never really good street performers.....
Yeah, those heads were an abortion of a design.
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Yeah, those heads were an abortion of a design.
i never got to see the design.........i always felt it was a good engine. but it was a good engine on a race track. on the street, there generally wasn't any way to get the engine to where it liked...........
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The original Boss 429 heads had a pushrod through the intake tract. Due to the turbulence this introduced, Ford had to open the intake port up more, lowering the velocities of the intake charge to the point that pooling would occur in the base of the port.
It was a bad design. Modern versions of this head (i.e. Kasse 9) have corrected all the ills of the original design.
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A friend from long ago had one of those .. reworked into a bit of a hot rod (ie..not 'stock' but still the Boss 429 in it) ..
..took it on a road trip with wife..wife pulled out to pass and floored it, completely lost it and the car went sideways into a stand of small trees at ~100mph.
Totalled the car, him and his wife were unhurt.
Just about as squirrely as you could get on bias ply tires.. they had very little traction.
I had the opportunity to wring out a '67 Shelby Mustang convertible one fine day ..dual quad 428 and automatic ..
..I bought my '69 383 Road Runner instead.
The Mustang was able to completely fry the tires at half throttle and going around corners, forget it.
Scared the *crap* out of the salesman gettin sideways at just 35mph ..car was more squirrely than the tri-power '69 Vette I wrung out later on.
It wasn't just the heads that were a bit screwed .. it was a squirrely car and outright dangerous to get on the gas.
-Frank aka GE
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The original Boss 429 heads had a pushrod through the intake tract. Due to the turbulence this introduced, Ford had to open the intake port up more, lowering the velocities of the intake charge to the point that pooling would occur in the base of the port.
It was a bad design. Modern versions of this head (i.e. Kasse 9) have corrected all the ills of the original design.
I'm impressed at the depth of knowledge a computer geek as yourself has for old Ford engine design. :cheers:
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I'm impressed at the depth of knowledge a computer geek as yourself has for old Ford engine design. :cheers:
Well, I was building high performance engines over 40 years ago.
I am pretty certain I have forgotten more than I remember. Like the original rods used splash for oiling the wrist pins which caused them to wear prematurely, so a modified rod with a bead running up one side and then drilled to carry oil directly to the wrist pin was done to fix that.
Or how the sodium filled exhaust valves used to crack and do so real nasty things to the engine once the sodium got exposed.
The Boss 429 was a bit of a mess. Had gobs of torque, but horsepower was lethargic, at best. It did not handle worth a darn either.
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Well, I was building high performance engines over 40 years ago.
I am pretty certain I have forgotten more than I remember. Like the original rods used splash for oiling the wrist pins which caused them to wear prematurely, so a modified rod with a bead running up one side and then drilled to carry oil directly to the wrist pin was done to fix that.
Or how the sodium filled exhaust valves used to crack and do so real nasty things to the engine once the sodium got exposed.
The Boss 429 was a bit of a mess. Had gobs of torque, but horsepower was lethargic, at best. It did not handle worth a darn either.
I remember something about this wasn't there a 428 Boss as well? in the Mustang Cobra jet?... had a similar problem and the motors were switched? Or was it 427 and 428? :old:
My Lady's Father is Al Cadrobbi he was a Porsche guy back at the same time you were a Cobra guy, maybe a few years before.
In the 80's he hooked up with Ted Gildred and they had a small race team in Solona Beach. They had lots of cool stuff 718rs60, 718rsk, 356GT, Lola t70, Tiga mkII, M20 McClaren, Ferrari 625, and the reason for my post a 68 Super Cobra Jet.
Edit: 68 cobra Jet
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The 69 Shelby GT-500 had a 428 in it.
The only Mustang engines Ford ever graced with the 'Boss' moniker was the 429, 351, and 302 (two different ones).
They all had one thing in common. You could broadslide a Lincoln Towncar through the intake ports.
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The "BOSS" engines were 302, 351 and 429 I believe.
The 428s were the base 428, 428CJ... Cobra Jet, and the 428SCJ... Super Cobra Jet.
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The 69 Shelby GT-500 had a 428 in it.
Yes so did the Cobra Jet... it was the advantages of 427 or 428 they were trying to figure out at the time... I just remember helping to switch the engines :frown:
I remembered it being a pressure issue... but could of been different cranks. :headscratch:
Either way it was a good memory
Ted sold the lola a few years back
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z12624/Lola-T70-MK-IIIB.aspx (http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z12624/Lola-T70-MK-IIIB.aspx) :eek:
:cheers:
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Yes so did the Cobra Jet... it was the advantages of 427 or 428 they were trying to figure out at the time... I just remember helping to switch the engines :frown:
I remembered it being a pressure issue... but could of been different cranks. :headscratch:
Either way it was a good memory
Ted sold the lola a few years back
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z12624/Lola-T70-MK-IIIB.aspx (http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z12624/Lola-T70-MK-IIIB.aspx) :eek:
:cheers:
bold part.....that's where ford took the name from for the current factory drag racers......
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Yes so did the Cobra Jet... it was the advantages of 427 or 428 they were trying to figure out at the time... I just remember helping to switch the engines :frown:
I remembered it being a pressure issue... but could of been different cranks. :headscratch:
Either way it was a good memory
Ted sold the lola a few years back
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z12624/Lola-T70-MK-IIIB.aspx (http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z12624/Lola-T70-MK-IIIB.aspx) :eek:
:cheers:
Cobra Jet was the name for the engine, not the car. The Shelby GT500 used a 428CJ engine. The Mustang 428 used either a Cobra Jet or a Super Cobra Jet engine.
The 428 and 429 are from two completely different engine families. The 428 is from the 'FE' family, and the 429 is from the '385' family.
The 'FE' family uses a bore spacing of 4.63", while the '385' family uses a bore spacing of 4.9".
The base 428 engine was not a beefy engine. 2 bolt mains, thin wall casting, and a weak crankshaft WEB made it suitable for the mundane luxury cars.
The 428CJ and SCJ had 4 bolt mains (Lemans style capscrew connecting rod bolts for the SCJ), and a substantially stronger main WEB.
There were four different crankshafts for the 428. The base 428, the 428CJ had two different cranks, and the 428 police interceptor.
There was also some subtle head differences I cannot recall the exact details.
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The 428 and 429 are from two completely different engine families. The 428 is from the 'FE' family, and the 429 is from the '385' family.
The 'FE' family uses a bore spacing of 4.63", while the '385' family uses a bore spacing of 4.9".
The base 428 engine was not a beefy engine. 2 bolt mains, thin wall casting, and a weak crankshaft WEB made it suitable for the mundane luxury cars.
The 428CJ and SCJ had 4 bolt mains (Lemans style capscrew connecting rod bolts for the SCJ), and a substantially stronger main WEB.
There were four different crankshafts for the 428. The base 428, the 428CJ had two different cranks, and the 428 police interceptor.
There was also some subtle head differences I cannot recall the exact details.
and the 427 is Windsor, 4 bolt main? right? smaller crank long time here .........there was also a base 429 not a boss... I think.
and a 460 Boss?
Thanx for the explanation
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bold part.....that's where ford took the name from for the current factory drag racers......
current in 1967/68?
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all this talk about Cobra Jets is getting me happy happy happy :D
The base 429 was called the thunderjet, never heard of a 427 Windsor unless your building one out of a 351
By the way one of the fastest production mustangs in 1/4 mile was the 71 boss 351 (Cleveland with adjustable rockers and a better cam)
CobraJet
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and the 427 is Windsor, 4 bolt main? right? smaller crank long time here .........there was also a base 429 not a boss... I think.
and a 460 Boss?
Thanx for the explanation
The 427 is part of the 'FE' family. It had a larger bore and shorter stroke compared to the 428. The 'Windsor' family are all small blocks and use 4.38" bore spacings, and four different deck heights to cover the range from 221ci to 351ci.
The 460 is part of the '385' family. Just a stroked 429.
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Cobra Jet was the name for the engine, not the car. The Shelby GT500 used a 428CJ engine. The Mustang 428 used either a Cobra Jet or a Super Cobra Jet engine.
The 428 and 429 are from two completely different engine families. The 428 is from the 'FE' family, and the 429 is from the '385' family.
The 'FE' family uses a bore spacing of 4.63", while the '385' family uses a bore spacing of 4.9".
The base 428 engine was not a beefy engine. 2 bolt mains, thin wall casting, and a weak crankshaft WEB made it suitable for the mundane luxury cars.
The 428CJ and SCJ had 4 bolt mains (Lemans style capscrew connecting rod bolts for the SCJ), and a substantially stronger main WEB.
There were four different crankshafts for the 428. The base 428, the 428CJ had two different cranks, and the 428 police interceptor.
There was also some subtle head differences I cannot recall the exact details.
i believe fords factory drag racers in 68 were called cobrajets?
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current in 1967/68?
current.
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current.
Nope cobra and super cobra jet motors came out in the middle of 68.
Edit: http://www.mustangmonthly.com/featuredvehicles/mump_0101_1968_ford_mustang_cobra_jet_history_review/viewall.html (http://www.mustangmonthly.com/featuredvehicles/mump_0101_1968_ford_mustang_cobra_jet_history_review/viewall.html)
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The '69 BOSS 429 was/is my very first dream car. My mom has a fairly rare 1980 4 cylinder turbo that we used to travel around and show. I used to see these all the time at the national shows we went to.
Seeing that black BOSS with the red interior for the first time was like reaching some sort of mechanical puberty. It all made perfect sense. :angel:
Edit - Hasn't the value absolutely skyrocketed on this car? In the late 80's and early 90's I do not remember these cars going for anywhere near $100,000.
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i believe fords factory drag racers in 68 were called cobrajets?
I was referring to production cars. All bets are off if we include the non-production items.
If one has to have a Boss 429. At least hold out for the 1970 model. Much, much better engine.
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If one has to have a Boss 429. At least hold out for the 1970 model. Much, much better engine.
At the money these things are commanding, I wouldn't care, but the 69's four headlights always looked cooler to me than the 70's two. :cool:
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I was referring to production cars. All bets are off if we include the non-production items.
Well.... after a phone call as per usual I was wrong again :uhoh
It was thee " '67 Ford Shelby American Mustang Terlingua Notch Back that was driven by Jerry Titus. It's 1 of 7 made by Ford Shelby American for the trams am series"
So much for memory
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-shrug- .. the one I drove was a '67 Shelby convertible
I remember being surprised it had a big block in it even tho the car was labeled a gt350 ..
had always thought that meant they were small blocks compared to the gt500's ..learned somethin new that day :)
.. was green with a tan top/interior ..pretty car ..squirrely as they came.
When I looked under the hood I was surprised to see the dual quads
and the air cleaner had the 428 sticker on it, it filled the engine compartment from side to side, front to back.
-Frank aka GE
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Something wrong there.
Ford never produced a big block GT-350. All the Shelby/Cobra big block Mustangs were GT-500. 67 was the first year for the GT-500, which came with the 428PI engine equipped with dual Holley 4160 carbs (67 was the only year with the dual carb 428). Also came equipped with a dual point, mechanical advance distributor (again, unique to the 67 model).
All GT-350's, in the Ford registry, use the 289 K-Code engine.
Maybe a dealer pulling a fast one? Always possible. Maybe it had been wrecked and they put the wrong decal package back on. Yes, new cars do get wrecked, repaired, and sold as new.
You are right about the insane amount of torque. There simply was not enough street rubber available to make those Mustangs safe on the street or the track.
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No tellin now Skuzzy .. it wasn't a new car when I drove it
..had 22k miles on it, was on a used car lot here in Phoenix in late '71
when I was lookin for a replacement for our '67 289 Mustang notchback
..I was fed up with what it took to fix it.. that Ford made me swear off of them forever.
Whereas .. the Road Runner .. had it two days when I picked up wife from work
at midnite in Tempe AZ ..and we drove to just south of Long Beach
and watched the sunrise from our sleepin bags on the beach.
Four and a half hours, 450 miles.
Speedo was pegged most of the way.
Good times.
-Frank aka GE
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There was also a "cobra lemans" engine option.
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There was also a "cobra lemans" engine option.
The "Cobra Lemans" engine is the name of the engine in the GT500. A 428PI (police intercepter) based engine. The engine got the tag "Cobra Lemans" as that was cast in the valve covers.
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So the point is ..if you go out to test drive new cars or fun used cars for laffs ..
..bring a camera :)
That way years later you can say 'ya, I drove one, the cigarette lighter was trash, here's a pic!'
..an stuff :)
-Frank aka GE
(friend of mine and I used to go out on our lunch hour an drive a used or new car that caught our fancy ..good times)
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So the point is ..if you go out to test drive new cars or fun used cars for laffs ..
..bring a camera :)
That way years later you can say 'ya, I drove one, the cigarette lighter was trash, here's a pic!'
..an stuff :)
-Frank aka GE
(friend of mine and I used to go out on our lunch hour an drive a used or new car that caught our fancy ..good times)
I took out a 69 road runner that had a 383 in it.....they let me go by myself :O
I have to admit I didn't want to bring it back...but didn't have the 19,000 they were asking for it :(
so I kept it for about an hour....lighting the tires up and generally being an idiot but having lots of fun....
I think they knew I would be back seeings how my Challenger was in their parking lot :rofl
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The person who buys this car has money to waste.
I guess I just don't see why someone would spend 100k on something to sit around and look pretty.
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I guess I just don't see why someone would spend 100k on something to sit around and look pretty.
look at it this way.........there's people that just don't see why you'd spend $50k for your own airplane. everyone has their own thing.
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look at it this way.........there's people that just don't see why you'd spend $50k for your own airplane. everyone has their own thing.
The airplane has utility
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Not everyone can appreciate, nor afford, to be a car collector.
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i can't afford it. i also really don't think any car should just set in the garage. i think it's a terrible waste.....but on the other hand, i understand why people don't drive rare beauties like that.
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i can't afford it. i also really don't think any car should just set in the garage. i think it's a terrible waste.....but on the other hand, i understand why people don't drive rare beauties like that.
If I were so blessed financially, I'd drive the damn thing. Granted, only on select roads, sunny days, and never too far from home, but I'd drive it. My dad has a 70 Torino Super Cobra Jet that he bought original, bought back 14 years after he sold it, and spent 4 years in restoration. Needless to say, he has a helluva crush on this car, and has spent more money than it's worth to get it back to show quality. It's absolutely gorgeous to look at, but the real fun begins when you let out on the clutch and those solid lifters start their percussion symphony, closely followed by that wonderful deep roar from the pipes. :D
I see collecting cars as very similar to collecting guns. It is fun to just sit around and look at them, but the true joy comes from actually using them. :cool:
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Amen Triton .. I'd be the same way if I ever end up with a '68 Hemi Cuda ..
..rare car, but .. man the sound .. and the feel of lettin that Hemi sing its song off a stoplight ...ohh yaaa.
-Frank