Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Randy1 on January 13, 2013, 10:21:10 AM
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I was looking at the Scoring help page when I noticed the huge hit in your score for failing to return to land.
They are plenty of threads on ACM so I thought selecting the right fight may help me live longer
Is returning to land more of a function of selecting the right fight to get into or more the skill of the pilot to win in more situations?
Do those with high kill to death ratios avoid things like furbals?
Do they avoid high ratios of reds to greens?
Do they always go in high?
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A man's GOT to know his limitations.
- Harry Callahan
Failure to land your kills is often about overcommitment in a fight.
Ask me how I know.. :angel:
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Is returning to land more of a function of selecting the right fight to get into or more the skill of the pilot to win in more situations?
Both. In some ways, 'selecting the right fight' is more like a higher kind of situational awareness, one that is not limited to your immediate surroundings. It's kinda skill of it own, and an important one that is often quite neglected.
Do those with high kill to death ratios avoid things like furbals?
Some do, some don't. It's certainly more difficult do keep your K/D up when taking part in a furball vs hunting bombers or vulching airbases.
But K/D is very much overrated anyways. You can get a 'high' K/D by flying extremely cautious, but your score (as well as your reputation ;) ) will suffer from your resulting very low k/h.
Do they avoid high ratios of reds to greens?
Again, some do, some don't. It's easier to survive with many greens around and few reds... but it's easier to get kills with more reds and less greens. It depends a lot on your skill level, the better you are, the less you benefit from a green horde.
Good players looking for kills do look for fat red darbars...
Do they always go in high?
Same answer - some do, some don't. Alt is life, but unless you are hunting for high alt bombers there is often no point in flying at excessive altitudes, you may be 'safer' but you also will see fewer kill opportunities.
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- Harry Callahan
Failure to land your kills is often about overcommitment in a fight.
Ask me how I know.. :angel:
...or is often the result of bailing because it's a waste of time to go land after you've cleared the skies and are out of ammo.
Ask me how I know. :devil
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...or is often the result of bailing because it's a waste of time to go land after you've cleared the skies and are out of ammo.
Ask me how I know. :devil
I know of a plane that carries a rather substantial ammo load. Would you like me to show you a picture? :D
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Oh, and I almost missed this one:
I was looking at the Scoring help page when I noticed the huge hit in your score for failing to return to land.
Actually you only have a hit in your score points, which is itself just one part of the score / rank calculation. In fighter mode, score points make up 1/5th of your score.
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I know of a plane that carries a rather substantial ammo load. Would you like me to show you a picture? :D
I know of a better aeroplane that pwns your choice of said aeroplane with relative ease. I fly it daily and pwn, with substantial frequency, pilots such as you as if they are flying toys (TwinBoom and Mercy excepted, of course). :ahand
If you look to the left side of your screen, you'll see a picture of one. :D
:airplane: :joystick:
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First off score is not everything, but that being said....
I'll tell you a little story Randy1. Last night I was working on adjustments in my rudder, and making my flying smoother for when I shoot. I tend to bounce all over the place when I'm shooting. Anyway, I had been using a G2 as my model of choice for practice (fun plane low ammo) it was getting into the busy time in the MA's so the horde activity was picking up. I'm not too good in a furball as I don't shoot well....hence the practice/adjustments.
So I jump into a pony and figure I'll do some picking. Work on keeping a nice smooth approach and exit never intending to get caught low and turning. I get to the fight and there 8k below me I see Randy1 chasing a tempest with a 38 chasing him. I give him the Check 6" call, dive in to clear him and he dies as I get a shot off on the 38. Next thing I know I'm twisting and a turning with a tempest and a 38 on the deck by myself. It didn't end well, thanks buddy. :D
The point here is you can make all the plans of how you want a flight to go, but unless your VERY strict with yourself your going to end up doing what ever is available. I gave up all my "plans" when I saw a guy in trouble below me because trying to help a teammate seemed more important than sticking to my perch. The same goes for K/D, K/H and so on. You can play the game for points, and thats ok, but then your not going to be as much help to teammates.
Obviously getting your kills and bringing your plane home gets your name in lights, and more points. If you kill quickly and often and return even better for points. But there are not many that can cover all the categories. Many people who have been named #1 for a month say it's a tedious way to fly. I don't know as I've never tried, not because I don't think I could, but because it isn't important to me. You have to decide the "hows" and "whys" of your flying. Just remember, it's a game and your suppose to have fun!
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My best advice is to forget about score all together. You don't have to be good at fighting to have a high score. You just have to be good at manipulating game play. You will enjoy the game much more when you don't worry about score.
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Good answers. Just the input I was looking for.
Lusche, that really helped me put it all in perspective. Bottom line from your reply know your skills and think about the fights, and the areas you are going into. Helping out another green guys as you said can get you shoot up quick but not helping out just doesn't seem right.
As Fugitive pointed out, I pushed it too far with the Tempest and the worse of it, I got him shoot up too. I got that fight clear in my mind. I would even call it greedy. Fugitive thanks for pointing that out. That is one solid lesson. We all make mistakes and need help with a spit or the like but I made a decision to push my luck and the consequences carried over to the guy trying to pull me out of the frying pan. Not good.
From the replies, the first order is to see through to getting out. Once in the fight, don't push your skill level. Be disciplined and break off when the pressure builds. Take on for the Gipper when you have too. :)
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ACM is just one of the tools you need to be successful in the MA.
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ask yourself 1 question.......
do you want to learn how to "fight"?
trying to stay "alive" will never teach you how to fight.....
your "skill" at fighting will only be gained by fighting....
watch this and tell me if this is "fighting"
http://www.mediafire.com/?ol6ok0wc4ppb22g
I never cared about "landing" since day 1 I have fought all comers all times.....trust me when I say I have died a lot....but look I am still here typing :O
I wonder how many top "scoring" pilots can post up films of them fighting 4-5 cons by them selves and winning.....
my guess is most of them......if they posted films we would see a whole lot of running vulching and ganging...IE not actually fighting....
so do you want to fight or stay alive.
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From the replies, the first order is to see through to getting out. Once in the fight, don't push your skill level. Be disciplined and break off when the pressure builds. Take on for the Gipper when you have too. :)
I would prefer to say "don't push your luck", because "don't push your skill level' reads a bit more like 'don't fight if you aren't sure you will win'
And if you don't push your skill level, it will not really increase much ;)
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I very rarely see a top ranked guy in a furball unless he's blowing through in a jet or Tempest or has 20 squaddies clearing his six.
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I very rarely see a top ranked guy in a furball unless he's blowing through in a jet or Tempest or has 20 squaddies clearing his six.
I would say that's true for overall rank, those with overall ranks of 50 or less. Most are score tards and will do just that. But if you look at people who fly on fighters with a high fighter score, the reverse is true. Most are top notch pilots that I always see in furballs.
My own overall rank is crap, but my fighter rank has always been decent. Never bothered to bomb or GV, just furball and fight.
Just looked at my own stats, one furball yesterday (first 9 sorties of the tour) bumped me from unranked to 84 in fighters. It's really not that hard to get good scores.
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It's really not that hard to get good scores.
tru dat bruh
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tru dat bruh
OBX? :confused: :mad:
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I was looking at the Scoring help page when I noticed the huge hit in your score for failing to return to land.
They are plenty of threads on ACM so I thought selecting the right fight may help me live longer
Is returning to land more of a function of selecting the right fight to get into or more the skill of the pilot to win in more situations?
Do those with high kill to death ratios avoid things like furbals?
Do they avoid high ratios of reds to greens?
Do they always go in high?
I would prefer to say "don't push your luck", because "don't push your skill level' reads a bit more like 'don't fight if you aren't sure you will win'
And if you don't push your skill level, it will not really increase much ;)
I just worry about killing they guy I'm against and nothing else,i kill many players with great scores and k/d % all the time.Have fun ,if your furballing or just out hunting that one good fighter,if making it home matters to you then try for that.
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Just looked at my own stats, one furball yesterday (first 9 sorties of the tour) bumped me from unranked to 84 in fighters. It's really not that hard to get good scores.
Only one with a good score could say that. It's like internationa chess grand masters saying to each other "Geez, it's SO easy to get an ELO >2000, everybody can do it!" ;)
The majority of players can only dream about a <100 rank from just a few furballing sorties. It's way beyond their skill level.
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If landing kills is important to you then fly your plane at the edge of your personal skill limits.
It will give you fun and the satisfaction of landing kills. I mean, if you are unskilled, then vulching or picking and trying to land those kills would be a challenge to you. On the other hand, if your are pretty skilled, you could try furbals and scape when things are really bad for you. If you are one of those overskilled pilots, your challenge would be entering sectors with fat red bars, kill the more the better and even trying to land those kills.
So, It will depend on your own skills and flying yourself at your own edge to find a balance between challenge and rtb. As long as you improve with time, you could push yourself harder to do riskier things while still going to land the kills.
Another approach is going into the mud from your first flight. You always put yourself into the worst situations and try yourself to develop your skills from there, dying a lot at the beginning, but maybe learning faster.
One approach or another depends on many factors about your perspective of the game, so choose the approach which gives you more fun.
Edit: Trying my best with English language :salute
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Landing is overated :D
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Landing is overated :D
sometimes the whole game is overated :D
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My 2 cents.....
I rarely worry about landing when I head into a fight. Ink already said it but to build skill past a certain point you have to risk your plane. I look at each fight (not just individual but the whole flight) and think about what I could have done better. To me there are a few components or levels of skill in this game.
One is your individual skill in a plane against someone else so: control, ACM, gunnery etc. Then there is the SA portion where you train yourself to see what's going on around you before the you engage so you can see, evaluate and prioritize red guys. As you continue to build skills in ACM, gunnery and control coupled with SA you get to the point where you can actively dogfight while looking around during the fight and recognize and respond to immediate threats and see potential threats building in the future while continuing to dogfight.
The only way to learn how to do all of this is to go do it and then to watch others (ingame or films). If you watch films pay attention to all the info in the film. The really good guys can do all that stuff I listed while getting kills and surviving multi-bogey encounters fairly frequently. Certainly watch what they are doing in terms of their flight style, acm and gunnery. However don't forget to check the box in the film viewer that shows their views. Really pay attention to just how much they look around, even in the middle of a difficult fight. You will see them working for a shot, look back, do some defensive maneuver against another plane in on their six, then go back to the guy they were originally fighting. Some of those films show the pilot looking forward through the gunsites less than any other view.
While practicing this stuff ignore your chances of survival or landing kills. Worry more about good gunnery for quick kills, ACM and threat identification and prioritization (SA)...i.e. avoid target lock and pay attention to attackers so you can evade attacks. I am no expert but I work on this stuff alot and try to improve. The most fun I have in the game involve fights with more red than green. It's constant SA and defense interrupted by a couple seconds of offense for a kill. Basically you're trying to stay airborne as long as possible while still getting kills. Do that enough and you will eventually find yourself surviving until you run out of fuel, ammo or red guys and actually rtb'ing. When the flight is over identify why you survived or didn't survive then adjust accordingly.
Oh and don't forget to leave your ego on the runway. You're gonna die, everyone dies cartoon deaths, even the guys the are really really good. In fact the really really good pilots die way more than you would expect. It's how they got good in the first place. Most of the fearful flying styles and venom on 200 is nothing more than bruised egos. Worrying about player X shooting you down sucking because you just "know" there is no way that guy is better than you will just keep you from getting better because you will be playing it safe. If you aren't taking a risk of losing in a player vs player game then you really aren't playing, nor are you showing any particular "skill" at the game.
OR.......
you can spend alot of time climbing to 25k in the fast plane of your choice hoping to find some guy fighting an enemy (or two or three enemies) and swoop in at 500 mph for the pick. This method is conducive to landing kills. However you will likely also live in fear of seeing a co-alt or higher enemy, more red than green or an enemy in a plane that flat turns better than the one you're currently in. Also be aware it may be one of those really talented folks you are attempting to pick, who saw you arrive, then saw you dive, then evades your attack, forces the overshoot and pops you with one burst as you fly by.
There is nothing inherently wrong with method two....it's just not very fun to me. The beauty of this game is that it's your 15 bucks and entirely up to you how you play. Having tried both methods at different points over the years I have played, I much prefer method one. You will die frequently but a victory under those conditions is much more meaningful to me than low risk flying. Besides there is no shortage of free planes so I say go for it.
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I know of a better aeroplane that pwns your choice of said aeroplane with relative ease. I fly it daily and pwn, with substantial frequency, pilots such as you as if they are flying toys (TwinBoom and Mercy excepted, of course). :ahand
If you look to the left side of your screen, you'll see a picture of one. :D
:airplane: :joystick:
:rolleyes:
Too bad you cannot follow through on promises with substantial frequency.
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It wouldn't hurt to also either find a dedicated wingman or randomly pick up one when you're in an area (let them know.)
This gives you another perspective and experience layer, it will help you either get more kills, learn to get more kills (and live) by assessing situations better - you'll find winging and getting kills might lead you wanting to land them and start improving your SA in knowing when it's time to head home.
Plus later on, if you're lone wolfing, that winging experience will help you better read situations when you're going in to help someone, i.e., what Fugitive tried to do - he was also expecting you to break off the one you were chasing, to focus on helping him clear your six of the one chasing you.
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Often the best way to help your country is to fly over the fight between bases then get down and dirty at the opponent's field. Even alone you'll likely stop the red guys in their tracks while your countrymates advance to take your place because you most likely will not make it out alive.
It doesn't do much for any of your stats or your score but it sure can be fun and when you're country mates arrive at the enemy field it can be gratifying to know that you single handedly accomplished that for the team.
I'm actually surprised more people (like all those guys who say they don't care about score :rolleyes:) don't do that as it can be a game changer in a battle between two fields.
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from my personal experience only, i believe you can get a good score and do it within the context of helping your team. and i think it really is about picking your spots. i find that my score naturally gets better if am reasonable and aggressive in my approach. im thinking, what would a real combat pilot do? he has one life. hes goin to be reasonable and cutting edge aggressive. with the hope of landing after a combat run. so for something like base defense, im not dying 20 times to save a base, even if the base taker, wirble monger crowd pisses and moans about that mindset, let em gripe, bc its not reasonable to me, im no lemming. instead, ill come from a different base with an alt/ E advantage and bnz em to death if i can, expecting those guys to use the best tactics they know to do their part, and hopefully we save the base. but, when my E-bank is close to empty, im haulin bellybutton to go fill my E-bank back up. rinse and repeat till its RTB time, hopefully a rotation gets goin and someone replaces me when i rtb. by using reasonable and aggressive tactics, decent score seems to just be natural. and more important, is my attitude doesnt go sour, bc im not gettin smoked every 2 mins. for me, no matter what type of fight, its all about reasonable and aggressive tactics that get me what i want with idea of completing my run and getting landed.
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It wouldn't hurt to also either find a dedicated wingman or randomly pick up one when you're in an area (let them know.)
This gives you another perspective and experience layer, it will help you either get more kills, learn to get more kills (and live) by assessing situations better - you'll find winging and getting kills might lead you wanting to land them and start improving your SA in knowing when it's time to head home.
Plus later on, if you're lone wolfing, that winging experience will help you better read situations when you're going in to help someone, i.e., what Fugitive tried to do - he was also expecting you to break off the one you were chasing, to focus on helping him clear your six of the one chasing you.
yeah, this is the way to go. its so much easier to learn if you can see your lead in action. bc of the angles you have to make to cover him and still have E the whole time. you start finding subtle ways to bank E. and they make good bait to! doh!!
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OBX? :confused: :mad:
oops! :noid
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The different views of the topic are interesting for sure.
I used Fugitives lesson and broke off several times after a warning from a fellow country man last night. It was not easy because I was just seconds away from making the shot most times but it is the right thing to do. I saved a couple of guys bacon and they saved mine several times.
I will say this. Landing feels good after a good fight. It is very satisfying to land with short fuel or ammo or both. Landing though with full ammo, not so good.
Lusche noted that it is a learned skill to select the right target, I try now to think before I try to saddle up although it is not easy.
VuduVee noted defending a base being over run will sure drag down your score. This is a big weakness for me. I do love the challenge and the excitement. Not much landing.
Shane noted picking up a wing-man. I do have one but we need work on our wing-man skills.
Brakechk noted gunnery skills. That is a good point and needs to be my next concentrated effort. If you can make the shot quicker you can break off before someone has a chance to line up on you. That makes sense.
As always, I appreciate all the advice. Solid as always.
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All good advice from the other posters.
I think the key to better K/D and higher Rank, is killing your target quickly. Everyone talks about Situational Awareness, but in AH it can change very quickly. What looks like a 2 v 2 now will be a 3 v 1 in 30 seconds, the bandit you're not chasing kills your countryman while you chase that spitfire around in circles. If you could have dispatched the Spit on the first pass, it's now a 2 v 1 in your favor. you help your countryman, and now when that next bandit shows up you have the advantage. this is why the better sticks have success. Their quick kills change the dynamics of the fight.
Shooting is the key. Learn to make one shot kills. You have to be able to predict the bandit’s first evasive move and time your first shot perfectly. If you can kill what you shoot at, you won't fear furballs or even being out numbered. If you’re taking 6 bursts to kill a bandit, you'll probably not be much better than 1:1. You'll get the kill, but die shortly after.
Making one shot kills takes good aim, good timing, and the proper gun package. AH rewards two things; Cannons, and putting all your rounds in the same place. Most American planes suffer from having .50 cals and having them spread over the length of the wings. At anything but the perfect convergence settings your bullets spread out all over the bandit causing you to have to hit him for longer periods of time to get a kill. This means you have to set up your approaches to the bandit in such a way as to turn with them for a few seconds. That limits the various approaches that will be successful. Pony pilots will often wound a lot of bandits but are wise to not stay with him to finish him off. I call the Pony B “The Assist Generator.” Good flyers of American planes know how to set up the shot, anticipate the break, time the shot, fire when the convergence right, and aim so the bullets cut a nice slice across one wing. The other thing that you have to pay attention to in planes with wing mounted guns is getting your lift vector parallel to the bandit’s lift vector. Because the guns spray pattern is a horizontal flat line, if the bandit rolls out of plane, many of the bullets won't hit him. All of that is why it’s harder to get quick kills is wing mounted, machine gun planes. The biggest threat to an attacking Pony is the bandit he just shot at, because he probably hit him, but didn’t kill him. And why so many pony drivers have a reputation for fighting cautiously, and Picking.
The exception on American side is the P-38. It has a cannon, and the 4 machine guns are in the nose, essentially co-axial with the cannon. Without any real convergence required, all your bullets will hit the bandit in the same place. P-38 pilots can kill bandits from all angles, and at all closing speeds. It also has a ton of ammo, and why so many can be real killers in the Lightning. Here is my ranking of how often (in percent) the plane’s gun packages kill on the first burst (assuming you hit him).
One Hit Wonders:
Great (90%) 109-K4, 109-G14(30mm), Me-262, bf-110, me-410, FW-190-A8(30mm), Ta-152,
Excellent (75%) N1K2, FW190-A5, Hurricane, Tempest, F4U-C, P-38, La7, A-20
Mediocre (50%) Spitfire, Seafire, P-47, Pony D, F6F, F4U, A6M, C205, C202, P-40, Fw-190D, Ki-84, Ki-61
Lousy (20%) Pony B, P-39, FM2, Brewster
If you can master the “first burst” kill, then your K/D will increase dramatically. It’s really what to focus on first. People will say S.A. is what to focus on first, but if you can’t shoot, no strategy will make you effective. Pick a great or excellent “One Hit Wonder” from the list and get good at putting rounds on the bandit.
Good luck
Vinkman
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All good advice from the other posters.
I think the key to better K/D and higher Rank, is killing your target quickly. Everyone talks about Situational Awareness, but in AH it can change very quickly. What looks like a 2 v 2 now will be a 3 v 1 in 30 seconds, the bandit you're not chasing kills your countryman while you chase that spitfire around in circles. If you could have dispatched the Spit on the first pass, it's now a 2 v 1 in your favor. you help your countryman, and now when that next bandit shows up you have the advantage. this is why the better sticks have success. Their quick kills change the dynamics of the fight.
Shooting is the key. Learn to make one shot kills. You have to be able to predict the bandit’s first evasive move and time your first shot perfectly. If you can kill what you shoot at, you won't fear furballs or even being out numbered. If you’re taking 6 bursts to kill a bandit, you'll probably not be much better than 1:1. You'll get the kill, but die shortly after.
Making one shot kills takes good aim, good timing, and the proper gun package. AH rewards two things; Cannons, and putting all your rounds in the same place. Most American planes suffer from having .50 cals and having them spread over the length of the wings. At anything but the perfect convergence settings your bullets spread out all over the bandit causing you to have to hit him for longer periods of time to get a kill. This means you have to set up your approaches to the bandit in such a way as to turn with them for a few seconds. That limits the various approaches that will be successful. Pony pilots will often wound a lot of bandits but are wise to not stay with him to finish him off. I call the Pony B “The Assist Generator.” Good flyers of American planes know how to set up the shot, anticipate the break, time the shot, fire when the convergence right, and aim so the bullets cut a nice slice across one wing. The other thing that you have to pay attention to in planes with wing mounted guns is getting your lift vector parallel to the bandit’s lift vector. Because the guns spray pattern is a horizontal flat line, if the bandit rolls out of plane, many of the bullets won't hit him. All of that is why it’s harder to get quick kills is wing mounted, machine gun planes. The biggest threat to an attacking Pony is the bandit he just shot at, because he probably hit him, but didn’t kill him. And why so many pony drivers have a reputation for fighting cautiously, and Picking.
The exception on American side is the P-38. It has a cannon, and the 4 machine guns are in the nose, essentially co-axial with the cannon. Without any real convergence required, all your bullets will hit the bandit in the same place. P-38 pilots can kill bandits from all angles, and at all closing speeds. It also has a ton of ammo, and why so many can be real killers in the Lightning. Here is my ranking of how ofter (in percent) the plane’s gun packages kill on the first burst (assuming you hit him).
One Hit Wonders:
Great (90%) 109-K4, 109-G14(30mm), Me-262, bf-110, me-410, FW-190-A8(30mm), Ta-152,
Excellent (75%) N1K2, FW190-A5, Hurricane, Tempest, F4U-C, P-38, La7, A-20
Mediocre (50%) Spitfire, Seafire, P-47, Pony D, F6F, F4U, A6M, C205, C202, P-40, Fw-190D, Ki-84, Ki-61
Lousy (20%) Pony B, P-39, FM2, Brewster
If you can master the “first burst” kill, then your K/D will increase dramatically. It’s really what to focus on first. People will say S.A. is what to focus on first, but if you can’t shoot, no strategy will make you effective. Pick a good or excellent “One Hit Wonder” from the list and get good at putting rounds on the bandit.
Good luck
Vinkman
I find myself this poster perfect. High quality level :salute
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I was looking at the Scoring help page when I noticed the huge hit in your score for failing to return to land.
They are plenty of threads on ACM so I thought selecting the right fight may help me live longer
Is returning to land more of a function of selecting the right fight to get into or more the skill of the pilot to win in more situations?
Do those with high kill to death ratios avoid things like furbals?
Do they avoid high ratios of reds to greens?
Do they always go in high?
Here is my answers to your questions:
Is returning to land more of a function of selecting the right fight to get into or more the skill of the pilot to win in more situations?
You should always try to make it home to land or at least get a ditch.
Do those with high kill to death ratios avoid things like furbals?
Furbals is like a hazard game and therefore I avoid them. Furbals can be fun but most of the time it ends up bad. You are closing in on someones 6 and then he screams out for help and you end up in the tower.
Do they avoid high ratios of reds to greens?
I use to check the situation. If you are higher or have more E then most of the red ones I would go in and kill as many of them as possible. When you getting low on E or alt you just fly away. If you stay to long someone always gonna get on your 6 and you will end up in the tower.
Do they always go in high? I like to be higher then my opponents if they are fighters. If they are buffs I like them to be a little higher. My favorite attack on buffs is to go up in front of them in high speed and put a load of rounds into their belly. I've blown up many B17's that way.
There are many tricks to be learned in this game :)
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I think it's far more important to get yourself in moderate trouble while you're learning. You should put yourself in situations that are not ideal in order to become good. If you start to pay too much attention to score, your skills will plateau and you won't ever get any better. Whenever you take off to fight, your return should depend on only two factors 1) fuel 2) ammo. Only when you are low on either should you RTB. You should seek fights with equal sized darbar (green/red) and come into those fights at a medium or low altitude to continue to push you SA and ACM to its limits and beyond. It's extremely easy to get caught up in score chasing and I'd venture a guess you're already good enough to rack up substantial score with she skills you already have. But that's not going to make you better when the poop hits the fan or give you the highest level of satisfaction the game has to offer. Some of the greatest sorties I've had happened when I didn't land. Like diving into a 4 on 1 and getting three of them just before the fourth guy kills me. Much more satisfying than landing 7 bomber kills.
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Enjoy your score, but don't chase it.
And the people that monitor things like your kills per hour of flight, etc, well... those are the kind that you can imagine what drivelous sniveling existences they live, and you can tell them to piss right off.
Attempting to discern someones relative skill by their KPH puts the bellybutton in assumption.
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Vinkman, that is a load of good information. Exceptional clarity. Dead, solid, perfect.
Several had posted that shooting skills should have been in my original post. Y'all are right. Leaving it out shows a weakness in my plan to improve.
As far as worrying about the score, I do not but it is the guidance I use to see if I am improving. I will though watch and make sure it is not a controlling issue. Fun first.
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Vinkman, that is a load of good information. Exceptional clarity. Dead, solid, perfect.
Several had posted that shooting skills should have been in my original post. Y'all are right. Leaving it out shows a weakness in my plan to improve.
As far as worrying about the score, I do not but it is the guidance I use to see if I am improving. I will though watch and make sure it is not a controlling issue. Fun first.
Randy, I highly recommend - prior to joining the online arena - upping offline in the plane you are working on (or at least one with or close to the gun package you mostly use) and shooting down the drones as many times as you can on a single load out.
You can customize the drones to match up common MA planes... It's probably best to set one to either an LA7 or P51, another to one of the 109s, maybe a P38 or other large plane, and a bomber.
Practice NOT attacking the bomber from dead 6. The others, try different approaches.
It will not only get you warmed up (You'll have shot down more planes before you even join the MA than some players will get that night) but also affect your overall accuracy positively.
This has helped me a LOT!
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I think it's far more important to get yourself in moderate trouble while you're learning. You should put yourself in situations that are not ideal in order to become good. If you start to pay too much attention to score, your skills will plateau and you won't ever get any better. Whenever you take off to fight, your return should depend on only two factors 1) fuel 2) ammo. Only when you are low on either should you RTB. You should seek fights with equal sized darbar (green/red) and come into those fights at a medium or low altitude to continue to push you SA and ACM to its limits and beyond. It's extremely easy to get caught up in score chasing and I'd venture a guess you're already good enough to rack up substantial score with she skills you already have. But that's not going to make you better when the poop hits the fan or give you the highest level of satisfaction the game has to offer. Some of the greatest sorties I've had happened when I didn't land. Like diving into a 4 on 1 and getting three of them just before the fourth guy kills me. Much more satisfying than landing 7 bomber kills.
I think you are right. But that doesnt answer Randy1's questions.
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Enjoy your score, but don't chase it.
And the people that monitor things like your kills per hour of flight, etc, well... those are the kind that you can imagine what drivelous sniveling existences they live, and you can tell them to piss right off.
Attempting to discern someones relative skill by their KPH puts the bellybutton in assumption.
You are a funny guy. But remember what Randy's question was from the beginning "Living Longer to land?" I believe you must think about the difference between an answer and an opinion.
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Vinkman, that is a load of good information. Exceptional clarity. Dead, solid, perfect.
Several had posted that shooting skills should have been in my original post. Y'all are right. Leaving it out shows a weakness in my plan to improve.
As far as worrying about the score, I do not but it is the guidance I use to see if I am improving. I will though watch and make sure it is not a controlling issue. Fun first.
Thanks Randy1. :salute
True about playing for score. These are tips for being more successful, and they don't sacrifice game play. :aok
I watch Soulyss, Grizz, Ink, latrobe, RedBull, Joach1m, Krupinski, Dr. Bone etc.. Those guys are always in the middle furballs and usually flying home to land them. Analyzing them, I saw the difference between their success and my lack there of. Those guys are "CLOSERS". When they get a chance they close the deal. So I decided to focus on being a closer. I picked the 109-K4 and worked on shooting the tater cannon. I doubled my K/D.
A,B,C ... Always Be Closing ;)
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You are a funny guy. But remember what Randy's question was from the beginning "Living Longer to land?" I believe you must think about the difference between an answer and an opinion.
Mine was a general retort to some of the comments in the thread, and not necessarily those who made said comments, don't kill the messenger, etc...
Don't chase score if you are just learning the game. Living longer will come in time, being timid might make you live longer in the short run but it doesn't provide the educational dividends that understanding WHY you died does. (This isn't to say that diving head first into 10 higher cons is going to provide a great benefit)
And as far as those who base their opinions on another's reputation by looking at the condensed values of the score columns, I don't thinkmy opinion strays very far at all from the realm of fact. You simply can't base anything substantial off those numbers alone.
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:huh :huh :huh :huh :huh :huh They keep score in here? :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
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Thanks Randy1. :salute
True about playing for score. These are tips for being more successful, and they don't sacrifice game play. :aok
I watch Soulyss, Grizz, Ink, latrobe, RedBull, Joach1m, Krupinski, Dr. Bone etc.. Those guys are always in the middle furballs and usually flying home to land them. Analyzing them, I saw the difference between their success and my lack there of. Those guys are "CLOSERS". When they get a chance they close the deal. So I decided to focus on being a closer. I picked the 109-K4 and worked on shooting the tater cannon. I doubled my K/D.
A,B,C ... Always Be Closing ;)
Closing is a problem I think for the planes I select going back to your reply. I really enjoy the P47M, but it can be hard to draw in tight on a shoot. It will certainly close but the extra time it takes makes it easier for a red saddle the P47M up. Ink has busted me up more than once. He is quite the stickman. I did see Snailman land a P47M with a bunch of kills so it is possible to make that beast work.
tunnelrat, good advice that I will go with.
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I did see Snailman land a P47M with a bunch of kills so it is possible to make that beast work.
Only two, at most three of my 21 kills in the 47M in this tour had been true (dog-)fights. Most kills had been unaware or very noobish ord-carrying fighters and heavy bombers, which I pounced with a crapload of E from high above. :old:
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Closing is a problem I think for the planes I select going back to your reply. I really enjoy the P47M, but it can be hard to draw in tight on a shoot. It will certainly close but the extra time it takes makes it easier for a red saddle the P47M up. Ink has busted me up more than once. He is quite the stickman. I did see Snailman land a P47M with a bunch of kills so it is possible to make that beast work.
tunnelrat, good advice that I will go with.
The jug allows you to take shots you normally wouldn't consider. You need to hold the trigger a little longer with .50s but they can get the job done. If the jug is your beast, I'm your man. Don't know which side you fly for but you're welcome to ride with me and I'll show you how I do it and talk you through while I do.
Ink busts everyone up but is fun to fight every time.
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Closing is a problem I think for the planes I select going back to your reply. I really enjoy the P47M, but it can be hard to draw in tight on a shoot. It will certainly close but the extra time it takes makes it easier for a red saddle the P47M up. Ink has busted me up more than once. He is quite the stickman. I did see Snailman land a P47M with a bunch of kills so it is possible to make that beast work.
tunnelrat, good advice that I will go with.
Then it seems like the problem is your setting your self up for the wrong kind of shots. Some time with a trainer can help you find the "how" of your setup. Like Lusche said, "pouncing" on a target in a P47 is the best way. The day you got me shot down :neener: I was going to work on BnZ passes. A good target will see you coming, but if you pull the right amount of lead, as they turn into/under you you can get a good blast off and zoom away. It is all in how you do it. On the other hand if you level out to far behind the target and it takes longer to catch up to him and if you pull for your lead too late you will lose E, the target won't lose as much, and roll over for a snap shot that can take parts off your plane. It's all about timing and angles.
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The jug allows you to take shots you normally wouldn't consider. You need to hold the trigger a little longer with .50s but they can get the job done. If the jug is your beast, I'm your man. Don't know which side you fly for but you're welcome to ride with me and I'll show you how I do it and talk you through while I do.
Ink busts everyone up but is fun to fight every time.
I Aim to please :D
Randy this guy here...take up on his offer...excellent JUG stick :aok
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I Aim to please :D
Randy this guy here...take up on his offer...excellent JUG stick :aok
I second that. :aok :salute
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I Aim to please :D
Randy this guy here...take up on his offer...excellent JUG stick :aok
I second..or third I think....that.
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All good advice from the other posters.
I think the key to better K/D and higher Rank, is killing your target quickly. Everyone talks about Situational Awareness, but in AH it can change very quickly. What looks like a 2 v 2 now will be a 3 v 1 in 30 seconds, the bandit you're not chasing kills your countryman while you chase that spitfire around in circles. If you could have dispatched the Spit on the first pass, it's now a 2 v 1 in your favor. you help your countryman, and now when that next bandit shows up you have the advantage. this is why the better sticks have success. Their quick kills change the dynamics of the fight.
Shooting is the key. Learn to make one shot kills. You have to be able to predict the bandit’s first evasive move and time your first shot perfectly. If you can kill what you shoot at, you won't fear furballs or even being out numbered. If you’re taking 6 bursts to kill a bandit, you'll probably not be much better than 1:1. You'll get the kill, but die shortly after.
Making one shot kills takes good aim, good timing, and the proper gun package. AH rewards two things; Cannons, and putting all your rounds in the same place. Most American planes suffer from having .50 cals and having them spread over the length of the wings. At anything but the perfect convergence settings your bullets spread out all over the bandit causing you to have to hit him for longer periods of time to get a kill. This means you have to set up your approaches to the bandit in such a way as to turn with them for a few seconds. That limits the various approaches that will be successful. Pony pilots will often wound a lot of bandits but are wise to not stay with him to finish him off. I call the Pony B “The Assist Generator.” Good flyers of American planes know how to set up the shot, anticipate the break, time the shot, fire when the convergence right, and aim so the bullets cut a nice slice across one wing. The other thing that you have to pay attention to in planes with wing mounted guns is getting your lift vector parallel to the bandit’s lift vector. Because the guns spray pattern is a horizontal flat line, if the bandit rolls out of plane, many of the bullets won't hit him. All of that is why it’s harder to get quick kills is wing mounted, machine gun planes. The biggest threat to an attacking Pony is the bandit he just shot at, because he probably hit him, but didn’t kill him. And why so many pony drivers have a reputation for fighting cautiously, and Picking.
The exception on American side is the P-38. It has a cannon, and the 4 machine guns are in the nose, essentially co-axial with the cannon. Without any real convergence required, all your bullets will hit the bandit in the same place. P-38 pilots can kill bandits from all angles, and at all closing speeds. It also has a ton of ammo, and why so many can be real killers in the Lightning. Here is my ranking of how often (in percent) the plane’s gun packages kill on the first burst (assuming you hit him).
One Hit Wonders:
Great (90%) 109-K4, 109-G14(30mm), Me-262, bf-110, me-410, FW-190-A8(30mm), Ta-152,
Excellent (75%) N1K2, FW190-A5, Hurricane, Tempest, F4U-C, P-38, La7, A-20
Mediocre (50%) Spitfire, Seafire, P-47, Pony D, F6F, F4U, A6M, C205, C202, P-40, Fw-190D, Ki-84, Ki-61
Lousy (20%) Pony B, P-39, FM2, Brewster
If you can master the “first burst” kill, then your K/D will increase dramatically. It’s really what to focus on first. People will say S.A. is what to focus on first, but if you can’t shoot, no strategy will make you effective. Pick a great or excellent “One Hit Wonder” from the list and get good at putting rounds on the bandit.
Good luck
Vinkman
A better explaination of what I was tryin to say regarding gunnery. :aok
The only thing I would add is this: Once you get aim, convergence and range sorted out almost all the planes listed are in the top two ranks. The only real varience for me is the time on the trigger. The big cannon birds are just a flick (like a 2 or 3 round burst in the K4, the Ki-84, spits and nik's etc is a second or so with the .50 cal rides being just a bit longer. The only times I really see a difference are in the 4 .50 cal rides or rifle calibre rides. This is just me though...and assuming I'm hitting my target in my preferred range of less than 300 with convergence at 300. Dead six shots also tend to take just a bit more time on the trigger.
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First off score is not everything, but that being said....
I'll tell you a little story Randy1. Last night I was working on adjustments in my rudder, and making my flying smoother for when I shoot. I tend to bounce all over the place when I'm shooting. Anyway, I had been using a G2 as my model of choice for practice (fun plane low ammo) it was getting into the busy time in the MA's so the horde activity was picking up. I'm not too good in a furball as I don't shoot well....hence the practice/adjustments.
So I jump into a pony and figure I'll do some picking. Work on keeping a nice smooth approach and exit never intending to get caught low and turning. I get to the fight and there 8k below me I see Randy1 chasing a tempest with a 38 chasing him. I give him the Check 6" call, dive in to clear him and he dies as I get a shot off on the 38. Next thing I know I'm twisting and a turning with a tempest and a 38 on the deck by myself. It didn't end well, thanks buddy. :D
The point here is you can make all the plans of how you want a flight to go, but unless your VERY strict with yourself your going to end up doing what ever is available. I gave up all my "plans" when I saw a guy in trouble below me because trying to help a teammate seemed more important than sticking to my perch. The same goes for K/D, K/H and so on. You can play the game for points, and thats ok, but then your not going to be as much help to teammates.
Obviously getting your kills and bringing your plane home gets your name in lights, and more points. If you kill quickly and often and return even better for points. But there are not many that can cover all the categories. Many people who have been named #1 for a month say it's a tedious way to fly. I don't know as I've never tried, not because I don't think I could, but because it isn't important to me. You have to decide the "hows" and "whys" of your flying. Just remember, it's a game and your suppose to have fun!
Amen! I will never forget what Twinboom did for me. I got myself in just a boatload of trouble when I missed my intended target and f41a, well pinged him lightly, and he put a slick move on me. Then an f6 comes up from behind. I dive out with the f4 and f6 on my six. Then realize omg, I'm heading straight for there CV. About that time TB asks if I'm okay. Oh no, I'm not okay at all. He dives in with his 38. The f6 and f4 lift there nose a hair. I make a sharp turn and travel back across the base into the horde but with e. Long story short I made it out. But I don't think TB did. Which I feel guilty about and promise myself to help him one day. It just meant a lot to me that someone would do that. I think that is the first time in years that has happened.
To me, that is truly what this game is about. It doesn't get any better than that.
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Do those with high kill to death ratios avoid things like furbals?
Do they avoid high ratios of reds to greens?
No. They just avoid the dying part
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One Hit Wonders:
Great (90%) 109-K4, 109-G14(30mm), Me-262, bf-110, me-410, FW-190-A8(30mm), Ta-152,
Excellent (75%) N1K2, FW190-A5, Hurricane, Tempest, F4U-C, P-38, La7, A-20
Mediocre (50%) Spitfire, Seafire, P-47, Pony D, F6F, F4U, A6M, C205, C202, P-40, Fw-190D, Ki-84, Ki-61
Lousy (20%) Pony B, P-39, FM2, Brewster
If you can master the “first burst” kill, then your K/D will increase dramatically. It’s really what to focus on first. People will say S.A. is what to focus on first, but if you can’t shoot, no strategy will make you effective. Pick a great or excellent “One Hit Wonder” from the list and get good at putting rounds on the bandit.
Good luck
Vinkman
C.202 ranks with the P-47 and Spitfire and above the P-51B, P-39, FM2 and Brewster? Really? Do you get a different C.202 than the rest of us?
Also:
Great (90%) Mosquito Mk VI
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Ok I see lots of good advice here. I'll just ad my little tidbits. Like many here some days I do great. And some days not so much. I dont consider myself a great pilot. I do consider myself a good opportunist.
What I find is that when I am doing well I am usually approaching it with a cold and calculating professional mindset.
Know your enemy- Get a pretty good grasp of as many of the planes as you can. Learn what they are good at. And not so good at. Take note of their altitude and general state of E. If you can if at a disadvantage. Use their strengths against them
Also learn player tendencies. For example. When coming in on someones six. Most people if you pay attention, break to the left.
Think ahead. Plan your way in and your way out. Think not just the move you are doing. But 3 or 4 moves ahead. And remember. Where your opponent is now isnt as important as where he is going to be 4 or 4 seconds from now. You want your nose and guns to be pointed in the direction your opponent will be passing through
Recognize your opportunities and remember. All plans are subject to change. Dont become target fixated or press an attack one one enemy which might lead you into a vulnerable position when there may be another target that you can go after that wont compromise you as much in the end.
Just as important as recognizing your opportunities is also being able to recognize when that opportunity is no longer there. Even though you may have landed good hits on someone. then the position is no longer there. its no longer there. Find another target and you will be surprised how many kills you get later when someone else gets the assist. Which certainly beats chasing your prey into a crowd of red or field ack.
Know where you are on the map. Use the base position and town as landmarks to point the way home. Then you can even in the middle of a fight get your nose at least pointed in that general direction.
Also KEY to getting home alot. Help others out when they need it and say "thank you" when they help you. You would be amazed at what a little common courtesy will do.
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There's a difference between a high K/D and landing your kills. Many good pilots fight till they die and maintain a good K/D just because they are able to take a few down before they are taken down. Occasionally they run out of bandits and get to land too. Flying a fast plane allows you to disengage from a fight and go land your kills. If you fly a P-40 for example, you'll probably have to kill all the bandits or have friendlies cover your exit if you hope to land it. Flying an "above average" plane in terms of speed will go a long way in improving the fraction of landed sorties. However, you'll be missing the thrill of playing the cornered wounded animal.
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I score tard every now and then, I used to a lot on 1CEMAN, I can tell you this: Ignore score, my suggestion to you would be:
1: Totally forget about score, pretend it doesn't exist, it will only anger and frustrate you.
2: LEARN ACM and how to FIGHT 1v1
3: work on your SA and gunnery
4: work on some 2v1 or more fights, they will help improve all of those, as someone else suggested in another thread (terrific suggestion as well!) fly into a furball on the deck, and don't shoot - totally forget you have guns. Well, what will this do for me?! I can't even shoot them?!?! This will teach you to prioritize targets, perfect reversals, greatly improve SA, and more.
Don't always worry about getting home. Let's say you just won a 2v1 and you were the one, and then maybe got picked trying to RTB or typing or what have you, winning that 2v1 was a helluva accomplishment, who cares if you land them?
I suppose the question you've to ask yourself is: Would it mean more to you to run home and land your 2 victories you picked off, or to get those 2 victories by killing two guys who just tried to jump you and had the advantages?
(Hope I didn't sway too far off subject btw)
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I keep thinking this thread has run its course then I get my eyes opened again.
DREDIOCK point about mind set is something I have noted have not mastered. Like last night. Ran into a La7 that had the E advantage an my P47M was just gaining speed after the climb-out. I had time to roll away to either get a better position or get the La7 to chase me then put a move on. Not me, I hit the WEP and tried to climb out over the La7. Bad mind set, bad decision, bad plan bad results. You are right, I break left 9 out of 10 times. Good point to pay more attention to what people do for both offensive and defensive work. Thinking back to last night after reading your post, I noticed Redbull turns are unpredictable but mine are.
Redbull, I watched your performance last night. I now have two new training films and and you have two more scores. :) Just as you posted, you were on the deck avoiding 2 and at times, 3 of us all with strong E positions. SA, gunnery and ACM, you do what you say.
I will do as you suggest and only check the score once a week. I really do only check the score to see if I am improving but you know I may be trying to micro manage my road to improvement by checking the score too often.
Had a great time last night. I really enjoy furballing in the P47M and the F4U but I did slip into a canon ride using the Typhoon as Vinkman and Brakechik noted canons vs MG. The Typhoon is a neat ride with lots of tatters and makes you work on using the rudder skills to pitch it over in a furbal.
Getback you are so right and as the Fugaitive noted. I thought I saved a guys bacon then turned to another target but the Red turned back on him and I could not close back in time. The next time I broke a green guy free then I went up and back to make sure he was clear and he was had three more threats, he got two, I got one. Got the blood flowing on that one.
Thanks again for all the replies.
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Redbull, I watched your performance last night. I now have two new training films and and you have two more scores. :) Just as you posted, you were on the deck avoiding 2 and at times, 3 of us all with strong E positions. SA, gunnery and ACM, you do what you say.
I will do as you suggest and only check the score once a week. I really do only check the score to see if I am improving but you know I may be trying to micro manage my road to improvement by checking the score too often.
:aok You're going to do well, just remember this game takes a lot of patience, sometimes. It gets very frustrating sometimes, and/or repetitive but just keep at it. If you ever want help in game feel free to PM me and I'll head over to the TA/DA with you :aok
(You're Randy1 in game as well?)
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I really appreciate the offer Redbull. Yes Randy1 same as in AH.
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Playing for Score/Stats waste of time and only makes you timid. They are too easy to pork either way, only stat that even has a hint towards showing how good someone might actually be is Hit % fighter stat but even that is skewed and easy to game.
No matter how good your score/stats might be at the end of the day only person interested in them is you.
imho best thing HT could do for the game would be to dump the score/stats/ranking system completely. Achievements makes it even more like some sort of Steam based RPG.
<S>...-Gixer
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Playing for Score/Stats waste of time and only makes you timid. They are too easy to pork either way, only stat that even has a hint towards showing how good someone might actually be is Hit % fighter stat but even that is skewed and easy to game.
No matter how good your score/stats might be at the end of the day only person interested in them is you.
imho best thing HT could do for the game would be to dump the score/stats/ranking system completely. Achievements makes it even more like some sort of Steam based RPG.
<S>...-Gixer
Holy cow...look who just popped in ......... How's it Gixer ... long time no see again
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Howdy, yes been a while.. :salute
<S>...-Gixer