Author Topic: Living Longer to land?  (Read 1903 times)

Offline Vinkman

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Re: Living Longer to land?
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2013, 08:31:16 AM »
All good advice from the other posters.

I think the key to better K/D and higher Rank, is killing your target quickly. Everyone talks about Situational Awareness, but in AH it can change very quickly. What looks like a 2 v 2 now will be a 3 v 1 in 30 seconds, the bandit you're not chasing kills your countryman while you chase that spitfire around in circles. If you could have dispatched the Spit on the first pass, it's now a 2 v 1 in your favor. you help your countryman, and now when that next bandit shows up you have the advantage. this is why the better sticks have success. Their quick kills change the dynamics of the fight.  

Shooting is the key. Learn to make one shot kills. You have to be able to predict the bandit’s first evasive move and time your first shot perfectly. If you can kill what you shoot at, you won't fear furballs or even being out numbered. If you’re taking 6 bursts to kill a bandit, you'll probably not be much better than 1:1. You'll get the kill, but die shortly after.

Making one shot kills takes good aim, good timing, and the proper gun package. AH rewards two things; Cannons, and putting all your rounds in the same place. Most American planes suffer from having .50 cals and having them spread over the length of the wings. At anything but the perfect convergence settings your bullets spread out all over the bandit causing you to have to hit him for longer periods of time to get a kill. This means you have to set up your approaches to the bandit in such a way as to turn with them for a few seconds. That limits the various approaches that will be successful. Pony pilots will often wound a lot of bandits but are wise to not stay with him to finish him off. I call the Pony B “The Assist Generator.”   Good flyers of American planes know how to set up the shot, anticipate the break, time the shot, fire when the convergence right, and aim so the bullets cut a nice slice across one wing. The other thing that you have to pay attention to in planes with wing mounted guns is getting your lift vector parallel to the bandit’s lift vector. Because the guns spray pattern is a horizontal flat line, if the bandit rolls out of plane, many of the bullets won't hit him. All of that is why it’s harder to get quick kills is wing mounted, machine gun planes. The biggest threat to an attacking Pony is the bandit he just shot at, because he probably hit him, but didn’t kill him.  And why so many pony drivers have a reputation for fighting cautiously, and Picking.
The exception on American side is the P-38. It has a cannon, and the 4 machine guns are in the nose, essentially co-axial with the cannon.  Without any real convergence required, all your bullets will hit the bandit in the same place.  P-38 pilots can kill bandits from all angles, and at all closing speeds. It also has a ton of ammo, and why so many can be real killers in the Lightning.  Here is my ranking of how often (in percent) the plane’s gun packages kill on the first burst (assuming you hit him).

One Hit Wonders:
Great (90%)       109-K4, 109-G14(30mm), Me-262, bf-110, me-410, FW-190-A8(30mm), Ta-152,
Excellent (75%)   N1K2, FW190-A5, Hurricane, Tempest, F4U-C, P-38, La7, A-20
Mediocre (50%)   Spitfire, Seafire, P-47, Pony D, F6F, F4U, A6M, C205, C202, P-40, Fw-190D, Ki-84, Ki-61
Lousy (20%)       Pony B, P-39, FM2, Brewster

If you can master the “first burst” kill, then your K/D will increase dramatically. It’s really what to focus on first. People will say S.A. is what to focus on first, but if you can’t shoot, no strategy will make you effective.   Pick a great or excellent “One Hit Wonder” from the list and get good at putting rounds on the bandit.

Good luck

Vinkman
 
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 11:29:52 AM by Vinkman »
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Offline Kovel

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Re: Living Longer to land?
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2013, 08:48:13 AM »
All good advice from the other posters.

I think the key to better K/D and higher Rank, is killing your target quickly. Everyone talks about Situational Awareness, but in AH it can change very quickly. What looks like a 2 v 2 now will be a 3 v 1 in 30 seconds, the bandit you're not chasing kills your countryman while you chase that spitfire around in circles. If you could have dispatched the Spit on the first pass, it's now a 2 v 1 in your favor. you help your countryman, and now when that next bandit shows up you have the advantage. this is why the better sticks have success. Their quick kills change the dynamics of the fight. 

Shooting is the key. Learn to make one shot kills. You have to be able to predict the bandit’s first evasive move and time your first shot perfectly. If you can kill what you shoot at, you won't fear furballs or even being out numbered. If you’re taking 6 bursts to kill a bandit, you'll probably not be much better than 1:1. You'll get the kill, but die shortly after.

Making one shot kills takes good aim, good timing, and the proper gun package. AH rewards two things; Cannons, and putting all your rounds in the same place. Most American planes suffer from having .50 cals and having them spread over the length of the wings. At anything but the perfect convergence settings your bullets spread out all over the bandit causing you to have to hit him for longer periods of time to get a kill. This means you have to set up your approaches to the bandit in such a way as to turn with them for a few seconds. That limits the various approaches that will be successful. Pony pilots will often wound a lot of bandits but are wise to not stay with him to finish him off. I call the Pony B “The Assist Generator.”   Good flyers of American planes know how to set up the shot, anticipate the break, time the shot, fire when the convergence right, and aim so the bullets cut a nice slice across one wing. The other thing that you have to pay attention to in planes with wing mounted guns is getting your lift vector parallel to the bandit’s lift vector. Because the guns spray pattern is a horizontal flat line, if the bandit rolls out of plane, many of the bullets won't hit him. All of that is why it’s harder to get quick kills is wing mounted, machine gun planes. The biggest threat to an attacking Pony is the bandit he just shot at, because he probably hit him, but didn’t kill him.  And why so many pony drivers have a reputation for fighting cautiously, and Picking.
The exception on American side is the P-38. It has a cannon, and the 4 machine guns are in the nose, essentially co-axial with the cannon.  Without any real convergence required, all your bullets will hit the bandit in the same place.  P-38 pilots can kill bandits from all angles, and at all closing speeds. It also has a ton of ammo, and why so many can be real killers in the Lightning.  Here is my ranking of how ofter (in percent) the plane’s gun packages kill on the first burst (assuming you hit him).

One Hit Wonders:
Great (90%)       109-K4, 109-G14(30mm), Me-262, bf-110, me-410, FW-190-A8(30mm), Ta-152,
Excellent (75%)   N1K2, FW190-A5, Hurricane, Tempest, F4U-C, P-38, La7, A-20
Mediocre (50%)   Spitfire, Seafire, P-47, Pony D, F6F, F4U, A6M, C205, C202, P-40, Fw-190D, Ki-84, Ki-61
Lousy (20%)       Pony B, P-39, FM2, Brewster

If you can master the “first burst” kill, then your K/D will increase dramatically. It’s really what to focus on first. People will say S.A. is what to focus on first, but if you can’t shoot, no strategy will make you effective.   Pick a good or excellent “One Hit Wonder” from the list and get good at putting rounds on the bandit.

Good luck

Vinkman
 


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Offline Sg11

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Re: Living Longer to land?
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2013, 08:59:10 AM »
I was looking at the Scoring help page when I noticed the huge hit in your score for failing to  return to land.

They are plenty of threads on ACM so I thought selecting the right fight may help me live longer

Is returning to land more of a function of selecting the right fight to get into or more the skill of the pilot to win in more situations?

Do those with high kill to death ratios avoid things like furbals?

Do they avoid high ratios of reds to greens?

Do they always go in high?
Here is my answers to your questions:
Is returning to land more of a function of selecting the right fight to get into or more the skill of the pilot to win in more situations?
You should always try to make it home to land or at least get a ditch.

Do those with high kill to death ratios avoid things like furbals?
Furbals is like a hazard game and therefore I avoid them. Furbals can be fun but most of the time it ends up bad. You are closing in on someones 6 and then he screams out for help and you end up in the tower.

Do they avoid high ratios of reds to greens?
I use to check the situation. If you are higher or have more E then most of the red ones I would go in and kill as many of them as possible. When you getting low on E or alt you just fly away. If you stay to long someone always gonna get on your 6 and you will end up in the tower.

Do they always go in high? I like to be higher then my opponents if they are fighters. If they are buffs I like them to be a little higher. My favorite attack on buffs is to go up in front of them in high speed and put a load of rounds into their belly. I've blown up many B17's that way.

There are many tricks to be learned in this game :)

Offline LilMak

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Re: Living Longer to land?
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2013, 09:03:55 AM »
I think it's far more important to get yourself in moderate trouble while you're learning. You should put yourself in situations that are not ideal in order to become good. If you start to pay too much attention to score, your skills will plateau and you won't ever get any better. Whenever you take off to fight, your return should depend on only two factors 1) fuel 2) ammo. Only when you are low on either should you RTB. You should seek fights with equal sized darbar (green/red) and come into those fights at a medium or low altitude to continue to push you SA and ACM to its limits and beyond. It's extremely easy to get caught up in score chasing and I'd venture a guess you're already good enough to rack up substantial score with she skills you already have. But that's not going to make you better when the poop hits the fan or give you the highest level of satisfaction the game has to offer. Some of the greatest sorties I've had happened when I didn't land. Like diving into a 4 on 1 and getting three of them just before the fourth guy kills me. Much more satisfying than landing 7 bomber kills.
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Offline tunnelrat

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Re: Living Longer to land?
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2013, 09:07:52 AM »
Enjoy your score, but don't chase it.

And the people that monitor things like your kills per hour of flight, etc, well... those are the kind that you can imagine what drivelous sniveling existences they live, and you can tell them to piss right off.

Attempting to discern someones relative skill by their KPH puts the bellybutton in assumption.

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Offline Randy1

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Re: Living Longer to land?
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2013, 11:36:23 AM »
Vinkman, that is a load of good information.  Exceptional clarity. Dead, solid, perfect.

Several had posted that shooting skills should have been in my original post.   Y'all are right.  Leaving it out shows a weakness in my plan to improve.

As far as worrying about the score, I do not but it is the guidance I use to see if I am improving.  I will though watch and make sure it is not a controlling issue.  Fun first.

Offline tunnelrat

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Re: Living Longer to land?
« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2013, 12:00:47 PM »
Vinkman, that is a load of good information.  Exceptional clarity. Dead, solid, perfect.

Several had posted that shooting skills should have been in my original post.   Y'all are right.  Leaving it out shows a weakness in my plan to improve.

As far as worrying about the score, I do not but it is the guidance I use to see if I am improving.  I will though watch and make sure it is not a controlling issue.  Fun first.

Randy, I highly recommend - prior to joining the online arena - upping offline in the plane you are working on (or at least one with or close to the gun package you mostly use) and shooting down the drones as many times as you can on a single load out.

You can customize the drones to match up common MA planes... It's probably best to set one to either an LA7 or P51, another to one of the 109s, maybe a P38 or other large plane, and a bomber.

Practice NOT attacking the bomber from dead 6.  The others, try different approaches.

It will not only get you warmed up (You'll have shot down more planes before you even join the MA than some players will get that night) but also affect your overall accuracy positively.

This has helped me a LOT!

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Offline Sg11

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Re: Living Longer to land?
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2013, 12:20:52 PM »
I think it's far more important to get yourself in moderate trouble while you're learning. You should put yourself in situations that are not ideal in order to become good. If you start to pay too much attention to score, your skills will plateau and you won't ever get any better. Whenever you take off to fight, your return should depend on only two factors 1) fuel 2) ammo. Only when you are low on either should you RTB. You should seek fights with equal sized darbar (green/red) and come into those fights at a medium or low altitude to continue to push you SA and ACM to its limits and beyond. It's extremely easy to get caught up in score chasing and I'd venture a guess you're already good enough to rack up substantial score with she skills you already have. But that's not going to make you better when the poop hits the fan or give you the highest level of satisfaction the game has to offer. Some of the greatest sorties I've had happened when I didn't land. Like diving into a 4 on 1 and getting three of them just before the fourth guy kills me. Much more satisfying than landing 7 bomber kills.
I think you are right. But that doesnt answer Randy1's questions.

Offline Sg11

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Re: Living Longer to land?
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2013, 12:26:02 PM »
Enjoy your score, but don't chase it.

And the people that monitor things like your kills per hour of flight, etc, well... those are the kind that you can imagine what drivelous sniveling existences they live, and you can tell them to piss right off.

Attempting to discern someones relative skill by their KPH puts the bellybutton in assumption.


You are a funny guy. But remember what Randy's question was from the beginning "Living Longer to land?" I believe you must think about the difference between an answer and an opinion.

Offline Vinkman

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Re: Living Longer to land?
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2013, 12:26:24 PM »
Vinkman, that is a load of good information.  Exceptional clarity. Dead, solid, perfect.

Several had posted that shooting skills should have been in my original post.   Y'all are right.  Leaving it out shows a weakness in my plan to improve.

As far as worrying about the score, I do not but it is the guidance I use to see if I am improving.  I will though watch and make sure it is not a controlling issue.  Fun first.

Thanks Randy1.  :salute

True about playing for score.  These are tips for being more successful, and they don't sacrifice game play.    :aok
I watch Soulyss, Grizz, Ink, latrobe, RedBull, Joach1m, Krupinski, Dr. Bone etc.. Those guys are always in the middle furballs and usually flying home to land them. Analyzing them, I saw the difference between their success and my lack there of. Those guys are "CLOSERS".  When they get a chance they close the deal. So I decided to focus on being a closer. I picked the 109-K4 and worked on shooting the tater cannon. I doubled my K/D.

A,B,C ... Always Be Closing  ;)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 12:30:41 PM by Vinkman »
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Offline tunnelrat

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Re: Living Longer to land?
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2013, 12:36:11 PM »
You are a funny guy. But remember what Randy's question was from the beginning "Living Longer to land?" I believe you must think about the difference between an answer and an opinion.

Mine was a general retort to some of the comments in the thread, and not necessarily those who made said comments, don't kill the messenger, etc...

Don't chase score if you are just learning the game.  Living longer will come in time, being timid might make you live longer in the short run but it doesn't provide the educational dividends that understanding WHY you died does.  (This isn't to say that diving head first into 10 higher cons is going to provide a great benefit)

And as far as those who base their opinions on another's reputation by looking at the condensed values of the score columns, I don't thinkmy opinion strays very far at all from the realm of fact.  You simply can't base anything substantial off those numbers alone.

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Offline Daddkev

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Re: Living Longer to land?
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2013, 12:46:59 PM »
 :huh :huh :huh :huh :huh :huh They keep score in here?  :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
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Offline Randy1

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Re: Living Longer to land?
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2013, 01:19:26 PM »
Thanks Randy1.  :salute

True about playing for score.  These are tips for being more successful, and they don't sacrifice game play.    :aok
I watch Soulyss, Grizz, Ink, latrobe, RedBull, Joach1m, Krupinski, Dr. Bone etc.. Those guys are always in the middle furballs and usually flying home to land them. Analyzing them, I saw the difference between their success and my lack there of. Those guys are "CLOSERS".  When they get a chance they close the deal. So I decided to focus on being a closer. I picked the 109-K4 and worked on shooting the tater cannon. I doubled my K/D.

A,B,C ... Always Be Closing  ;)

Closing is a problem I think for the planes I select going back to your reply.  I really enjoy the P47M, but it can be hard to draw in tight on a shoot.  It will certainly close but the extra time it takes makes it easier for a red saddle the P47M up.  Ink has busted me up more than once.  He is quite the stickman.  I did see Snailman land a P47M with a bunch of kills so it is possible to make that beast work.

tunnelrat, good advice that I will go with.

Offline Lusche

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Re: Living Longer to land?
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2013, 01:28:07 PM »
I did see Snailman land a P47M with a bunch of kills so it is possible to make that beast work.


Only two, at most three of my 21 kills in the 47M in this tour had been true (dog-)fights. Most kills had been unaware or very noobish ord-carrying fighters and heavy bombers, which I pounced with a crapload of E from high above. :old:
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Offline LilMak

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Re: Living Longer to land?
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2013, 01:36:45 PM »
Closing is a problem I think for the planes I select going back to your reply.  I really enjoy the P47M, but it can be hard to draw in tight on a shoot.  It will certainly close but the extra time it takes makes it easier for a red saddle the P47M up.  Ink has busted me up more than once.  He is quite the stickman.  I did see Snailman land a P47M with a bunch of kills so it is possible to make that beast work.

tunnelrat, good advice that I will go with.
The jug allows you to take shots you normally wouldn't consider. You need to hold the trigger a little longer with .50s but they can get the job done. If the jug is your beast, I'm your man. Don't know which side you fly for but you're welcome to ride with me and I'll show you how I do it and talk you through while I do.

Ink busts everyone up but is fun to fight every time.
"When caught by the enemy in large force the best policy is to fight like hell until you can decide what to do next."
~Hub Zemke
P-47 pilot 56th Fighter Group.