Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Zacherof on January 17, 2013, 05:00:26 PM
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Looking for some tips on fancy flight tricks like what Lepape does in jugs.
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PRACTICE ! :noid
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Call Krupnski, he does something simmilar with the K4. Seen Joachim doing nice tailslides too. Impressive too see, also very deadly.
:aok
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Honestly, Fugi's got the right of it. There is no magic 'If he goes like this, you go like this, and you'll be able to fly like Lepape.' It's a set of skills that you have to put the time in to learn.
Learn ACM. Heh... I just realized that's pretty much akin to saying 'Learn chess' but it's what's required. In Pursuit by Johan Kylander is a good place to start. Putting in time in the TA with trainers can help immensely.
Pick a plane. Learn the plane so you know what it will do in every situation. Low speed, mid speed, high speed, extreme speed. Learn how it feels and handles when it starts to compress, what it takes to get it to shed parts due to speed.
Get the feel for how it stalls, when it stalls, what it does after it stalls. Learn how different levels of throttle affect its low speed characteristics.
Learn how different fuel/ammo states affect it under all the aforementioned conditions.
That's a start, anyways.
Edit: Wow, I just reread this and realized it comes off a bit harsh. I didn't mean any offense by it, Zacherof, it's just a factual statement of what I feel it takes to get to the point of fancy tricks.
Wiley.
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Looking for some tips on fancy flight tricks like what Lepape does in jugs.
Learning a "trick" only turns you into a one trick pony without any knowledge of what to do when you find yourself in a situation where your "trick" doesn't apply. As Fugi and others have mentioned, take the time to learn BFM and ACM and practice, practice, practice. This way your "bag of tricks" will be full and you won't find yourself empty handed in any situation.
Look at Midway...he only has one trick in his bag and dies quite easily because he doesn't know how to handle situations where he can't use his "trick". Don't become a Midway.
ack-ack
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you guys could at least admit you don't know how to do the tailslide instead of giving vague advices on how unnecessary it is (except deb) :bolt:
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I use to fly remote control airplanes. Out of the plane view makes it easier to do a tail slide and a vertical stall turn with a kick of rudder with a shot of power. It is harder to do in AH since you are in plane knowing you are perfectly vertical. The problem I find if you don't have enough advantage over the chasing plane, you are a sitting duck like stalling a p47 or a Typhoon at the top of a loop.
The below are tricks to me but are standards to the experienced stic. That is if you are new like me they are tricks. The idea of these is to switch from defense to offense.
A snap roll reversal is neat. Not easy to do. Takes practice on each plane.
A BRD reversal at the top of the barrel roll is a neat trick too but you need to practice the next one first.
Just going to the offline practice to figure just how low you can be and roll over and pull a reversal with flaps can save your bacon. In a P47M it is 1500 feet as an example. A better stick than me could shave that down I am sure.
On planes that don't have high speed flaps pop the flaps at the top of the loop when the speed is slow to pitch the nose down quicker.
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The problem I find if you don't have enough advantage over the chasing plane, you are a sitting duck like stalling a p47 or a Typhoon at the top of a loop.
There-in lies the underlying reason "tricks" don't have much use in aerial combat...
If you DO have "enough" advantage over the chasing plane (or your opponent in really ANY situation), you don't need tricks.
If you don't have "enough" advantage, tricks will generally waste a large amount of E and/or time, putting you in a worse position than you began in.
Trick's will get you killed and cause you more grief more often than flying just good 'ol basic ACM.
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There-in lies the underlying reason "tricks" don't have much use in aerial combat...
If you DO have "enough" advantage over the chasing plane (or your opponent in really ANY situation), you don't need tricks.
If you don't have "enough" advantage, tricks will generally waste a large amount of E and/or time, putting you in a worse position than you began in.
Trick's will get you killed and cause you more grief more often than flying just good 'ol basic ACM.
QFT
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Looking for some tips on fancy flight tricks like what Lepape does in jugs.
As Randy mentioned, it's basically variations on the vertical snap roll.
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I've been using the barrel roll trick with huge success. It seems to take advantage of two things. First, if you are moving an enemy has a hard time getting critical hits, plus the lag factor kicks in. Second, if you can hide behind the enemy’s canopy pillar and frame blind spots you will win every time.
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Joachim is the man!
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Joachim is the man!
Are you his man?
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There-in lies the underlying reason "tricks" don't have much use in aerial combat...
If you DO have "enough" advantage over the chasing plane (or your opponent in really ANY situation), you don't need tricks.
If you don't have "enough" advantage, tricks will generally waste a large amount of E and/or time, putting you in a worse position than you began in.
Trick's will get you killed and cause you more grief more often than flying just good 'ol basic ACM.
Indeed, 95% of what the best pilots do are the few standard maneuvers. It is the knowledge of how to do them and especially when to do them that makes these pilots so good. The tricks are a variation that you pull out once in a while against an opponent that may predict your moves.
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Are you his man?
More like his little woman, in a cute sunday dress.
I've seen a few people now using tailslides in duels. I actually smile when I see it because unless they connect on that 1/100th chance of the shot they might get as I pass, they've just allowed me to continue up and over in the scissors and hold all the cards. It's then my fight to lose. Which right now I will. :D
You know until Tango posted that "Flat plate" tailside thread after the Dogfighters episode, it really wasn't that known of a move. A straight forward, non-bs over the top reversal is still going to win overall, pilots being equal. You don't see guys like Bighorn and Creton using a tailslide because they don't need to.
But start climb, pull stick back-right, rudder left, half throttle then back towards full. Practice it, should get it to work.
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One trick that all the big sticks have that I have seen every time I have an encounter with one of them is they hit what they aim at with the first passing in front of their guns. :aok
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One trick that all the big sticks have that I have seen every time I have an encounter with one of them is they hit what they aim at with the first passing in front of their guns. :aok
Yep.
If I ever learn to shoot I'll be dangerous.
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Or learn to get close enough where it's impossible to miss. Either way works. I fall into the "get close till they're in your face" crowd. :banana:
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I had asked in another thread how to do these after seeing films, mainly because it was possible and I wanted to know how to do this. Ink posted how to do it and I went offline and practiced it until I could reasonably expect it to happen if I tried to make it happen. However I haven't really found a good time to apply it's use in a fight with any frequency.
I have done it on accident dueling squaddies in the DA. It usually precludes a message informing me my squaddie just shot me down and is a result of overcontrolling. It's always funny to hear "nice tailslide" followed a couple seconds later with a free trip to the tower. Not saying it's useless (obviously it's not) but I think it's use is limited at least in terms of my abilities.
I think alot of times people see films of some fantastic/unique manuever/shots/reversals ect. and assume the these things are used every time in every fight by a few really good players. I think that the really good players are really good because they can reliably control their plane on the edge of the envelope and know, understand and use good ACM.
The films have a lot of unique stuff because it's unique...not because it's things they do every single fight. That said, if I see it on a film I want to know how to do it so I don't assume that if someone asks they think it's a magic bullet. If they do think that and try to use it that way they will quickly be able to sort out which manuevers work and which don't after a couple flights.
Zaphod
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...and I went offline and practiced it until I could reasonably expect it to happen if I tried to make it happen...
I have done it on accident... Not saying it's useless...
I think that the really good players are really good because they can reliably control their plane on the edge of the envelope and know, understand and use good ACM.
If there's a value to "trick" flying, I suspect this touches on it.
I for one have spent a LOT of time in the TA, just in a corner by myself, practicing "trick" flying.
Not because I see any value to using it in fights, but because it teaches me the very edges of the envelope; what controls and attitudes are likely to place me on it, or past it, and then how to recover from those attitudes. I practice the maneuvers at lower and lower altitudes, and at different angles of entry and departure. I learn to get quicker and quicker at recovering, sometimes to the point that although I may exceed the envelope and begin an undesirable departure, I can correct it quickly enough that my opponent may never even see it, and I won't lose much performance as a result...
I used to liken it to ice skating as a trainer teaching new players. At first you slip and slide and fall all over the place. Then you progress to the point where you react quick enough to "accidentally" prevent a fall (although it'll still look humorous and uncoordinated to others). You then advance to where you can easily maintain your footing when these "moments" occur (and they're getting much more rare now anyway). Finally, in the end you can move in almost unimaginable ways on the ice. You can even devote your mental effort to something else (like a game of hockey) without ANY real mental effort being devoted to control/balance/corrective actions...
If a player with the last level of control (about 20% or so of AH players?) goes up against a player currently at ANY of the other levels of control ability in AH (about 80% of the population?) the outcome is pretty predictable and not surprising. In addition to that, there are a certain number of players that exceed even the highest level of control most of us can ever achieve... And there are certain players that have a phenomenal knack for understanding and applying the "3D" aspects of the environment that challenge all humans (who predominately exist in a 2D world)...
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Well I have a fairly good knowledge of ACM, I'm just looking for something to throw at people for the sake of fun. I tend to fit my planes fights, and avoiding knife fights if I can. If it comes down to it, I do what I can.
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use pucachevs cobra. you turn off ur engine and immedietly pull up, the hit left rudder and they will fly right past you
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use pucachevs cobra. you turn off ur engine and immedietly pull up, the hit left rudder and they will fly right past you
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you dug up a 5 month old thread? :headscratch:
and on the topic! And! And that topgun move asell!!
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I used to have issues being on the six of a P51 at D1000 and suddenly he's pointed right back at me HO and realized my 300ms to 450ms ping was causing this.
Since then, I've tried aces high on a computer with a better connection at work just to see what I am missing and things are much easier.
It's great when you can see what your opponent is doing closer to real time.
Interestingly, it seems the smoothing code in aces high works remarkably well because I have yet to hear a complaint of warping and rarely seen an opponent doing so except when it's really bad or being done on purpose.
When that happens, I see planes flying sideways or into the ground right before the hand of god pulls them back in behind me.
Make sure your system or connection isn't responsible for you seeing things that seem to defy physics.
Kappa seems to know the extreme corners of the flight models of a few planes that makes him nearly unbeatable at times.
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use pucachevs cobra. you turn off ur engine and immedietly pull up, the hit left rudder and they will fly right past you
And give the bandit on your six a very easy kill.
ack-ack
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And give the bandit on your six a very easy kill.
ack-ack
that's why I don't tailslide that often.
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use pucachevs cobra. you turn off ur engine and immedietly pull up, the hit left rudder and they will fly right past you
:aok CHOP throttle, they will fly right by.
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<<<finally mastered the Hammerhead trick in my P40 lol it works well when you need to make someone overshoot or the enemy on your six stalls out before you do
just chop throttle and pull flaps all the way out and kick the rudder to the left in the P40
oh and you have to be Vertical lol
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:aok CHOP throttle, they will fly right by.
do this all the time. All tho with slower planes it can be a double edged sword
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Learning a "trick" only turns you into a one trick pony without any knowledge of what to do when you find yourself in a situation where your "trick" doesn't apply. As Fugi and others have mentioned, take the time to learn BFM and ACM and practice, practice, practice. This way your "bag of tricks" will be full and you won't find yourself empty handed in any situation.
Look at Midway...he only has one trick in his bag and dies quite easily because he doesn't know how to handle situations where he can't use his "trick". Don't become a Midway.
ack-ack
:rolleyes:
Here are some of my tricks:
(1) When they come straight at you, veer off to the right slightly, let them think you won't HO, then as they hold their fire move that rudder with a quick slight snap and let 'em have it! :joystick:
Softens them up for the next go around. :devil
(2) Flop like a fish down low, turning every which way, until you hear the "poof" telling you they hit the dirt reaching for you. Then fly home with a :) .
(3) If they are close behind you, dive a little to make them think you are going to speed up, then pull up, twist with ailerons, flaps out, full rudder as a brake, watch them zip by you confused, and let 'em have it from behind when they're in front of you looking for you. :ahand
(4) When they are above you, slowly dive, make them follow, and start a slow tightening diving turn. They'll be faster than you since they are diving from higher... and watch 'em hit the dirt when they black out or... if they go back up, immediately follow them up and let 'em have it from below. :aok
(5) When they are to the side of you and start firing, jump up slightly, turning in to them, then when they come around to try again, keep circling until you see 'em come straight at you. Then see trick #1, above. :x
(6) When they are following you into the ack, turn tight circles, and enjoy the show, as they lose piece after piece of their pride and joy.. and determination... then you land nice and slow and proud. :cool:
(7) When they are in any other position, see trick #1, your fallback, when it's not your first choice. :joystick:
Seven tricks...
...and a bonus...
(8) When they do get you often, up capped bases frequently, and HO on take off... gets their buds to come after you with even more vigor. Then as you die frequently upping capped bases... you'll always be able to say "Hey, I up capped bases for fun!" ... when they try to make fun of your score. :rolleyes:
...and a double bonus...
(9) Fly a Spitfire MK VIII and when you get in trouble just start climbing, and watch 'em struggle to keep up. Then when they are nice and slow, quickly turn around and reuse trick #1 when they can hardly move. :rock
...and just to make it an even ten...
(10) Go after the guy that is already heavily engaged, zoom by him with a quick pull of the trigger, and you got yourself an easy score. Might have to turn the vox volume down though since your country bud, whom fought so hard to get that one, has to watch you fly away with his victory. Just 'click' the mic and say...
"there may be other bad guys in the area" :old:
...and land the victory checking to see how many perkies that earned you. :cheers:
:noid
PS: Works for me and I think I can down roughly 95% of pilots these days. :banana:
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Midway's trick is not following through on promises! :old:
:angel:
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Midway's trick is not following through on promises! :old:
:angel:
:rofl
I dare him to try the A5 for atleast a month :neener:
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A good trick is to equalize your energy state relative to an opponent who is high above you and intends to bounce you.
You can do this in most every plane that has the ability to go 450mph or more without shedding wings.
Get up to your near maximum airframe speed in as shallow a dive as you can to attain said speed.........but not steep enough to make your attacker reconsider diving on you.
Once he is near you and near the same altitude and speed, you will have just drained most of his energy advantage.
Works great on guys diving on you from extreme altitudes.
If he simply follows you while maintaining a few thousand feet altitude advantage, you will have to try something else because he didn't fall for it.
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Some great posts in here.
If I may, the most effective "trick" may be Oswald Boelcke's ACM doctrine. I find that they are incredibly potent.
Interestingly, many rave against these when encountering them as you are simply not flying the way they think you should be. In most cases this means giving up the advantages of your chosen ride and situation to be equal or less than the advantages in theirs. How silly right! ;-)
Some include:
1. Try to secure the upper hand before attacking. If possible, keep the sun behind you.
2. Always continue with an attack you have begun.
3. Only fire at close range, and then only when the opponent is properly in your sights.
4. You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses.
5. In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind.
6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try to get around his attack, but fly to meet it.
7. When over the enemy's lines, never forget your own line of retreat.
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90% of the time when I die I find it is because I violated these tenets ... or was AFK LOL. You may find the same if you think about it.
Rock on! :salute