Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lulu on April 04, 2013, 07:26:24 AM
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When a collision occurs then there is a model that assigns damages.
Well, which is this model ?
:salute
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Someone at HTC throws one of these at the wall and records what happens:
http://www.amazon.com/Corgi-CC99303-Messerschmitt-Diecast-Vehicle/dp/B0071MVC02/
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I see dead people...
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Someone at HTC throws one of these at the wall and records what happens:
http://www.amazon.com/Corgi-CC99303-Messerschmitt-Diecast-Vehicle/dp/B0071MVC02/
:rofl
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It is coding far beyond the reach of us mere mortals. ;)
Just remember that what you see is not always *exactly* as it happens. Also, most times when a player "wins" a collision the other guy is screaming "THAT SOB RAMMED ME!", and most of the time a player loses a collision they exclaim "THAT SOB RAMMED ME!", and then there are those of us who just *shrug* and realize that allowing ourselves to get in to that situation to begin with is our own fault and that is takes TWO for a collision to happen and that it take TWO to "Head On" as well.
Whatever the coding may be, I think if there is a collision the damage model should be far more dire than what it is. I'd like to think when a Hurricane and a Zeke collide that neither plane would fly away. The few planes that may have the ability to survive a collision of any sort would be the SBD, P47, F4U, F6F, 190, and perhaps the P40. I'm sure there are other airframes known for their stoutness, but those are the airframes I know of for sure.
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It is coding far beyond the reach of us mere mortals. ;)
Just remember that what you see is not always *exactly* as it happens. Also, most times when a player "wins" a collision the other guy is screaming "THAT SOB RAMMED ME!", and most of the time a player loses a collision they exclaim "THAT SOB RAMMED ME!", and then there are those of us who just *shrug* and realize that allowing ourselves to get in to that situation to begin with is our own fault and that is takes TWO for a collision to happen and that it take TWO to "Head On" as well.
Whatever the coding may be, I think if there is a collision the damage model should be far more dire than what it is. I'd like to think when a Hurricane and a Zeke collide that neither plane would fly away. The few planes that may have the ability to survive a collision of any sort would be the SBD, P47, F4U, F6F, 190, and perhaps the P40. I'm sure there are other airframes known for their stoutness, but those are the airframes I know of for sure.
Only takes one for a collision to happen, see snailmans pictures for an explanation.
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Only takes one for a collision to happen, see snailmans pictures for an explanation.
No... it takes TWO for the collision to occur. If the two players are 300 yards apart there would be no collision. If they are merging and they are 30 yards apart then yes, perhaps, thanks to lag/latency/goblins/gremlins, etc.
I understand his explanation, but I'm not talking about the effects of all that. I'm simply referring to two airplanes maneuvering in tight loops, etc, and they pass within peeing distance of each other then the chance of a collision is high regardless (think Zeke vs Hurricane @ 2000ft). If we're speaking of a 190A-8 vs a P40F at 20,000 ft (2 of the worst turning planes in the game), and the merging is much further apart then the chance of collision is minimal if any.
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Can be a lot farther apart than the 30ft you quoted so yes it does only take one. That's why sometimes one player gets the collision and the other player doesn't.
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It is very easy to figure out/understand. If don't see a colllision on your screen you will not collide. You can take damage when Tue other guy collides with you with out seeing it on your screen only from his guns.
Don't collide, you won't get a collision.
Don't get in front of someone's guns and you won't get shot.
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How Internet Lag Affects Aces High (http://netaces.org/lag/lag.htm) (includes how collisions occur on your end, but the other plane flies on)
Regards,
Hammer
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Lag is not important because i'm speaking about a collision that happens on my pc.
The point is:
When on my ah pc version i collide, which is the collision model and the corresponding damages model?
For example, In a collision between jug and spit is it favorable for the jug?
:salute
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If we're speaking of a 190A-8 vs a P40F at 20,000 ft (2 of the worst turning planes in the game)
The P-40 is one of the worst turners in the game? :headscratch:
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Lag is not important because i'm speaking about a collision that happens on my pc.
The point is:
When on my ah pc version i collide, which is the collision model and the corresponding damages model?
For example, In a collision between jug and spit is it favorable for the jug?
:salute
When indeed speaking strictly about the things happening on YOUR PC, there is only one plane colliding: Yours. No other. And only yours is taking damage on YOUR computer in the collision that happens there, no matter which plane types are involved.
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I think lulu is asking whether or not both planes' airframe strength is taken into account when determining damage from the collision.
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It is very easy to figure out/understand. If don't see a colllision on your screen you will not collide. You can take damage when Tue other guy collides with you with out seeing it on your screen only from his guns.
Don't collide, you won't get a collision.
Don't get in front of someone's guns and you won't get shot.
(This guy....when he golfs his answer is "if you can't hit out of the bunkers, don't hit it in the bunker!) Very Yogi Berra
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No... it takes TWO for the collision to occur.
So does that mean if you are in a stall, you are responsible for the other person colliding with you? :headscratch: IMO, that just makes you (specifically me) an idiot for not being able to judge your speed properly. It's the other guys fault because he has the ability to pull away but chooses not to because of lack of skill.
As for the OP, collisions seem to be more predictable if it is not a head on with most planes taking equal damage. Though if on plane is flying level and the other tries to ram from behind, the rammer will always loose the fight with the rammie taking no damage. In the event of a ho, it seems to be more random but also more accurate. It may take some testing but it seems that if a rugged plane and a brittle plane go against each other, the rugged one is where I would place my bet. It also seems that the location of the hit plays a very big roll.
IE: Two ponies are closing head on, the first has it's wing go straight up the center of the seconds fuselage. Pony one looses it's wing and augers into the ground. Pony two is imidiatly destroyed because of a pilot wound (presumably, they just blow up from pony one's point of view).
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Within the past two weeks I had a guy ram me from behind. It was a fast diving Pony that I wasn't worried about as I was otherwise engaged and he was never going to be able to turn on time. The next thing I knew it said we'd both collided and I died. I never even saw the guy after initially seeing him starting to dive in.
PERFECT collision model that lets someone hit you from behind and gives them the kill. It's rubbish and always has been. Stop defending trash coding. There's no way you should take a collision to the back half of your plane. It's happened to me regularly through the years.
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Within the past two weeks I had a guy ram me from behind.
:O
:noid
:devil
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... There's no way you should take a collision to the back half of your plane....
(http://netaces.org/lag/bronkview.jpg)
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(http://netaces.org/lag/bronkview.jpg)
Looks like True Love to me :O
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:huh :huh :huh :huh :huh :huh :O :O :O :OSpit sex....ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww wwwwww :eek: :eek: :eek: :o :o :o :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
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:huh :huh :huh :huh :huh :huh :O :O :O :OSpit sex....ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww wwwwww :eek: :eek: :eek: :o :o :o :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
So THAT is why there are so damned many spits...
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Doesn't always take two to collide.
I've been in a formation of lancs and had a p51 collide with all 3 planes of the formation with the message "pilot has collided with you".
He flew off seemingly undamaged.
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To this day in the D9 if I overshoot somebody and yank the stick back after clearing them, and they're in autoclimb or any sort of gentle climb, I can induce a colision thats mostly on the other players end but both of us participated in (both received "X has collided with you"), and usualy only at the expense of my tailwheel. This has never made sense to me, and it's very easy to miscalculate and cause a worse collision (for yourself).
I think there is a difference between how newer models and older ones are treated in collisions in AH. A good example might be from taking a good sampling of aircraft and flying them with one wing into, as slow as possible, an object (IE: CV tower). Newer models seem to act more predictabley than older ones I find. Take the Ju88 for example, the thing can fly slow, its dense, it's an older model, and it cartwheels midair like a frisbee if you collide with an object and its wingtip. Do the same in a C-47 and you loose the same amount of wing and may get flipped around before comming to a stop, but you wont go frisbee like the Ju88 into the ground and while missing as much of the wing.
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lulu the component of your plane that touches the other plane is destroyed. It is the same damage system as the bullet system, except the component that is hit is completely destroyed.
Dale
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BaldEagl,
You are way to hung up on viewing things as an "at fault" auto collision in the real world situation. You need to drop all of that thinking and start over as it isn't the real world and doesn't follow the same rules you are instinctively applying and it doesn't care about, calculate or try to assign "at fault" status.
All it does is calculate if your plane and the other plane made contact on your "front end", meaning the copy of AH running on your computer, destroys the part of your airplane that made contact and sends the data to the server. That is it.
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When a collision occurs then there is a model that assigns damages.
Well, which is this model ?
:salute
That's die cast, must be one Lunar faced wall.
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just like sayin if you can't hit the target don't fire the gun.
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BaldEagl,
You are way to hung up on viewing things as an "at fault" auto collision in the real world situation. You need to drop all of that thinking and start over as it isn't the real world and doesn't follow the same rules you are instinctively applying and it doesn't care about, calculate or try to assign "at fault" status.
All it does is calculate if your plane and the other plane made contact on your "front end", meaning the copy of AH running on your computer, destroys the part of your airplane that made contact and sends the data to the server. That is it.
That's all well and good but it's still not right that someone else can hit you from behind and get the kill on you. Simply change the code to eliminate all damage from a hit to the back half of your plane and leave it as is for anything else. That way a person who hits you from behind takes damage and you don't with no change to front quarter collisions.
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That's all well and good but it's still not right that someone else can hit you from behind and get the kill on you. Simply change the code to eliminate all damage from a hit to the back half of your plane and leave it as is for anything else. That way a person who hits you from behind takes damage and you don't with no change to front quarter collisions.
No, you are still responsible for checking your six. The other guy literally cannot as what he sees isn't what is on your computer.
You're still locked into an "at fault" mindset.
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Just so I'm clear on this... If my FE shows a collision but the other guys does not only I take damage , but If my FE shows my bullets hitting the other guy he takes damage regardless of what he sees on his FE? :rolleyes: :headscratch:
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Just so I'm clear on this... If my FE shows a collision but the other guys does not only I take damage , but If my FE shows my bullets hitting the other guy he takes damage regardless of what he sees on his FE? :rolleyes: :headscratch:
Yes. Damage from your bullets to him are calculated on your FE.
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LAG is an unavoidable fact of gaming over the internet. I for one would be insanely pissed off if I got a collision message just because the other guy saw it on his FE even though on mine i was 50 feet away from him. The system isnt perfect, but there is no way to create the perfect system when dealing with lag. You cant turn off collisions because then you would just end up rewarding ho tards. If you only turn collisions on when both FEs see them, youll have the similar effect of emboldening HO tards because it is actually pretty rare to get a 2 person collision in this game...at least compared with 1 person collisions. Rear end collisions where you end up dying are extremely frustrating...I have been the victim of that many times. It really makes me angry, but I don't see a solution. So far no one has come up with a better system than the one thats implemented. It is as far as I can tell the most purely fair system that is possible. You guys complaining about how its garbage code and that HTC doesn't know what they are doing are basically full of you know what. Its been shown time and again that they listen to good ideas...hell when people cry enough, they even listen to the bad ones. Most of you guys are pretty smart...come up with something better...im sure HT will listen.
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"LAG is an unavoidable fact of gaming over the internet"
I do not speak about lag !
The problem is 'When a collision has occurred, what determines damages?'
:salute
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"Lulu the component of your plane that touches the other plane is destroyed. It is the same damage system as the bullet system, except the component that is hit is completely destroyed.
Dale"
TY HTC
:salute
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"Lulu the component of your plane that touches the other plane is destroyed. It is the same damage system as the bullet system, except the component that is hit is completely destroyed.
Dale"
TY HTC
:salute
Understood. So how, when two planes collide, does one get no damage? If a collision occures I am assuming the collision model knows they have come into contact with one another so how do I fly off with no damage? And I HAVE flown away from a collision with zero damage. How does that happen if the model is good? Not accusing here, just asking.
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Understood. So how, when two planes collide, does one get no damage? If a collision occures I am assuming the collision model knows they have come into contact with one another so how do I fly off with no damage? And I HAVE flown away from a collision with zero damage. How does that happen if the model is good? Not accusing here, just asking.
:huh
All this talk about lag in this thread and you don't know?
I don't recall 100% how it is, but I think when you get a collision on your end you get an orange system text message that says "You have collided with [whoever]," and when the other guy collides with you on his end you get a white PM text message that says "[whoever] has collided with you."
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:huh
All this talk about lag in this thread and you don't know?
I don't recall 100% how it is, but I think when you get a collision on your end you get an orange system text message that says "You have collided with [whoever]," and when the other guy collides with you on his end you get a white PM text message that says "[whoever] has collided with you."
Understood but that's not what I asked.
If it works like the gunnery damage model where one plane shoots and one plane is hit, then how can the system not recognize the collider vs the collidee? If two planes collide, they should both take appropriate damage if the model is correct.
Lag doesn't matter...even in the gunnery model, lag only affects the timing of when his rounds or your rounds hit the plane. They still hit and they still do damage
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Understood but that's not what I asked.
If it works like the gunnery damage model where one plane shoots and one plane is hit, then how can the system not recognize the collider vs the collidee? If two planes collide, they should both take appropriate damage if the model is correct.
Lag doesn't matter...even in the gunnery model, lag only affects the timing of when his rounds or your rounds hit the plane.
I thought I recalled HTC saying something about it would penalize the player with the better connection.
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when i started playing a few years back, to get kills I would up a bf109, cant remember the specific model, and I would crash into as many planes I tried to ho. 90% of the time, I would survive without damage while the other plane would go down. once I switched from dial up to dsl and got a faster computer then It was the other way. now that I have an even faster computer and great cable connection, I definitely try not to crash as I am the one who goes down almost every time.
semp
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How Internet Lag Affects Aces High (http://netaces.org/lag/lag.htm) (includes how collisions occur on your end, but the other plane flies on)
Regards,
Hammer
a very good read hammer!! great input thanks
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Understood but that's not what I asked.
If it works like the gunnery damage model where one plane shoots and one plane is hit, then how can the system not recognize the collider vs the collidee? If two planes collide, they should both take appropriate damage if the model is correct.
Lag doesn't matter...even in the gunnery model, lag only affects the timing of when his rounds or your rounds hit the plane. They still hit and they still do damage
Not true. Gunnery is affected by lag. Because his evasives don't get to you for a short period after he initiates them he is easier to hit than he would be with no lag. In addition lag can make it look to him like he doesn't need to evade as strong as he should based on what you are seeing.
Gunnery does not require the rounds to hit on both FEs. In fact, what the rounds do on the target's FE doesn't matter at all as hits are not calculated there.
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Understood but that's not what I asked.
If it works like the gunnery damage model where one plane shoots and one plane is hit, then how can the system not recognize the collider vs the collidee? If two planes collide, they should both take appropriate damage if the model is correct.
Lag doesn't matter...even in the gunnery model, lag only affects the timing of when his rounds or your rounds hit the plane. They still hit and they still do damage
if you miss from your end.. they will not magically hit him..
remember, in this "two person" event, there are actually 4 planes. your computer's version of the both of you, and his computer's version of both of you. they cannot (due to the limitations of the internet) agree. they will not show the exact same positions in space... each computer just "trusts" the other one to tell it when it gets shot. it's close enough to have dogfights, but you really aren't fighting against a person, you're fighting against what that person was doing however many milliseconds ago.
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Not true. Gunnery is affected by lag. Because his evasives don't get to you for a short period after he initiates them he is easier to hit than he would be with no lag. In addition lag can make it look to him like he doesn't need to evade as strong as he should based on what you are seeing.
Gunnery does not require the rounds to hit on both FEs. In fact, what the rounds do on the target's FE doesn't matter at all as hits are not calculated there.
Ok. Got it.
Now, answer the collision question. You have answers for everything else. Please indulge me. Everyone wants to answer the gunnery questions and if collisions are like gunnery, it should be easy so explain away...or else I might think your gunnery answers are horsepoo.
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if you miss from your end.. they will not magically hit him..
remember, in this "two person" event, there are actually 4 planes. your computer's version of the both of you, and his computer's version of both of you. they cannot (due to the limitations of the internet) agree. they will not show the exact same positions in space... each computer just "trusts" the other one to tell it when it gets shot. it's close enough to have dogfights, but you really aren't fighting against a person, you're fighting against what that person was doing however many milliseconds ago.
I never intimated magical hits. Crosshairs on him, trigger pull, bullets go downrange, then, 3 seconds after they pass, the bullets hit.
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Ok. Got it.
Now, answer the collision question. You have answers for everything else. Please indulge me. Everyone wants to answer the gunnery questions and if collisions are like gunnery, it should be easy so explain away...or else I might think your gunnery answers are horsepoo.
Collisions aren't modeled like gunnery. Instead of the hit causing damage to the other guy it causes damage to you. The reasoning behind this is that as with not being able to see an imminent attack's exact approach you cannot see the enemy's position relative to you on their FE. This means that you may not attempt to dodge a collision because it doesn't look to you like there is about to be a collision. Hitech puts the responsibility to avoid collisions on the only people who have the information needed to avoid the collision on their FE.
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(http://i1076.photobucket.com/albums/w460/Mar0100/collision1.png)
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Collisions aren't modeled like gunnery. Instead of the hit causing damage to the other guy it causes damage to you. The reasoning behind this is that as with not being able to see an imminent attack's exact approach you cannot see the enemy's position relative to you on their FE. This means that you may not attempt to dodge a collision because it doesn't look to you like there is about to be a collision. Hitech puts the responsibility to avoid collisions on the only people who have the information needed to avoid the collision on their FE.
unless of course you are in the bomb site and a fighter dives on you crashes but only your FE saw it. perhaps we should allow the gunners to bomb so pilot can avoid collisions :).
the whole collision damage thingy is funny some times, but that's the way it is.
semp
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I never intimated magical hits. Crosshairs on him, trigger pull, bullets go downrange, then, 3 seconds after they pass, the bullets hit.
Right, because the way the gunnery model works from the shooter's perspective is:
- You shoot at the guy's image on your FE.
- The bullets either hit or miss on your FE.
- Damage to his plane is calculated on your FE.
- Damage information about his plane is uploaded to the server from your FE.
- Damage information about his plane is downloaded to his FE from the server.
- His FE displays the damage to him.
Looking at it from the shootee's perspective:
- He shoots at your image on his FE that's lagging a little bit or a lot behind where you are on your FE.
- The bullets either hit or miss on his FE.
- Damage to your plane is calculated on his FE.
- Damage information about your plane is uploaded to the server from his FE.
- Damage information about your plane is downloaded to your FE from the server.
- Your FE displays the damage to you.
The larger the delay in the upload/download phases, the more noticeable the delay is between you seeing him taking the shot and your FE showing you the damage. Also, if there's a delay in those upload/download phases, there's also likely a delay in the position updates of each of your planes, making the difference between where the two of you see each other larger.
All other airplanes' bullets on your screen are mere approximations. About all they tell you is the general direction of their fire.
Collisions are simply calculated on your FE. Wherever your FE puts his plane, if you intersect with it, it will cause you damage. Any other way of doing it means you can't trust what you see and will run into situations where either you see yourself go through an enemy plane and take no damage, or you see yourself pass by an enemy plane without touching it and magically take damage. Both of which options are poo.
The buff thing is probably the single greatest issue with it, but frankly, it's easier to shoot the buff down with guns than to try to drag your invisible trail plane through him.
Wiley.