Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: EagleDNY on April 07, 2013, 07:18:22 PM
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HTC - it is frankly embarrassing for planes and vehicles that have been in this game for months to not even be listed for new players when they hit the game info link on your webpage. C'mon guys - it doesn't take that much effort to update that wiki and highlight some of the new rides you guys have spent so much time creating.
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as it is a WIKI, you can update it yourself. Just saying.
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as it is a WIKI, you can update it yourself. Just saying.
I think you have to be part of the wiki/editing team to be able to update it.
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I think you have to be part of the wiki/editing team to be able to update it.
Im not, and I have.
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Paging SODA! Hep .... hep. :cool:
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I tried to update the pages a few times, it kept getting deleted or modified with wrong info, i stopped updating.
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I tried to update the pages a few times, it kept getting deleted or modified with wrong info, i stopped updating.
Butcher, so who did you whizz off and get on the wrong side of who administers the AHWiki?
Didn't you know it's owned by 27 administrators(players) who fiercely guard it from we the unwashed ignorant masses? Not employees of HiTech Creations. Just fellow $14.95 a month players like you and me.
Ever consider if they wanted any of us to place our sticky little fingers on their personal toy. There would be a sticky somewhere in these forums that a 3rd grader could read on how to get updates approved with PM addresses or how to update the Wiki with a list of requirements? Notice there isn't even a list of who the 27 administrators accept as community Aces High authorities on subjects that you can contact for help qualifying your submission?
Funny how we are all invited to freely update a Wiki and we get whizzed on by anonymous nameless administrators(players) passing judgment on us. No where in the formal disclaimer page are you warned that your submissions will be reviewed and deleted if they do not meet with an anonymous HTC sanctioned authoritative review group's standards.
In essence you will have to get 26 friends together and start a 24x7 turf war with the anonymous 27 administrators for control over your submissions to the AHWiki since they have seen fit to remove your work for what ever reasons that they have never published to this community.
The following creates the license to own the Wiki in the name of the public "good" by the 27 anonymous administrators unless you want to spend your life defending your submissions from them. Which I bet they rely on no one being very persistent once "you" get the point that "you" are not welcome on "their" turf.
From the AHWiki Disclaimer page:
No formal peer review
Our active community of editors uses tools such as the Special:Recentchanges and Special:Newpages feeds to monitor new and changing content. However, AHWiki is not uniformly peer reviewed; while readers may correct errors or engage in casual peer review, they have no legal duty to do so and thus all information read here is without any implied warranty of fitness for any purpose or use whatsoever. Even articles that have been vetted by informal peer review processes may later have been edited inappropriately, just before you view them.
None of the contributors, sponsors, administrators, or anyone else connected with "HiTech Creations" in any way whatsoever can be responsible for the appearance of any inaccurate or libelous information or for your use of the information contained in or linked from these web pages.
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Bustr, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.... Because it seems like you are, and yet what you are typing is somewhat like what I have observed as well. I tried updating several wiki entries and gave up after experiencing the same issues that Butcher describes.
So I said "screw it" and left it to whomever wants to stake claim to it as their own private playground.
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Butcher, so who did you whizz off and get on the wrong side of who administers the AHWiki?
Didn't you know it's owned by 27 administrators(players) who fiercely guard it from we the unwashed ignorant masses? Not employees of HiTech Creations. Just fellow $14.95 a month players like you and me.
Ever consider if they wanted any of us to place our sticky little fingers on their personal toy. There would be a sticky somewhere in these forums that a 3rd grader could read on how to get updates approved with PM addresses or how to update the Wiki with a list of requirements? Notice there isn't even a list of who the 27 administrators accept as community Aces High authorities on subjects that you can contact for help qualifying your submission?
Funny how we are all invited to freely update a Wiki and we get whizzed on by anonymous nameless administrators(players) passing judgment on us. No where in the formal disclaimer page are you warned that your submissions will be reviewed and deleted if they do not meet with an anonymous HTC sanctioned authoritative review group's standards.
In essence you will have to get 26 friends together and start a 24x7 turf war with the anonymous 27 administrators for control over your submissions to the AHWiki since they have seen fit to remove your work for what ever reasons that they have never published to this community.
The following creates the license to own the Wiki in the name of the public "good" by the 27 anonymous administrators unless you want to spend your life defending your submissions from them. Which I bet they rely on no one being very persistent once "you" get the point that "you" are not welcome on "their" turf.
From the AHWiki Disclaimer page:
No formal peer review
Our active community of editors uses tools such as the Special:Recentchanges and Special:Newpages feeds to monitor new and changing content. However, AHWiki is not uniformly peer reviewed; while readers may correct errors or engage in casual peer review, they have no legal duty to do so and thus all information read here is without any implied warranty of fitness for any purpose or use whatsoever. Even articles that have been vetted by informal peer review processes may later have been edited inappropriately, just before you view them.
None of the contributors, sponsors, administrators, or anyone else connected with "HiTech Creations" in any way whatsoever can be responsible for the appearance of any inaccurate or libelous information or for your use of the information contained in or linked from these web pages.
Bustr, that's not entirely true!
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,251306.0.html
I suppose Murdr could have used a better title but the information is available.
I also suspect that any changes made weren't done by any of the admins.
:salute
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Morfiend,
I got Rolex to respond awhile back that the Trainers are the admins, the last time I beat the bushes to get the leader to step up and be accountable for the deplorable state of the AHWiki after so many years.
Administration\government in the shadows only exists for itself because it cannot be made accountable for it's actions by the people it refuses to allow power to. Or deny the right to publish.
The AHWiki suffers from this because (a)the unnamed administrator(s) have decided it will reflect a specific vision of Aces High. It's sad that so many have given up attempting to work on the AHWiki that was provided for "All" of us to freely update by the actions of a few. Simply by anonymous autocrats and individuals who would rather it sit idle and never be used if it will keep us unwashed heathens from soiling it.
That's the real problem here. They won't update it probably because they all claim a lack of time from their personal lives. But, they still have the time to crap on anyone else not sanctioned by them to touch it. They won't even extend the courtesy to those they crap on of publishing a manifesto outlining what they will accept, what they won't, and the names of all the players they will refuse publishing to the Wiki regardless if the Library of Congress vouches for their scholarship. And so it sits idle not for the lack of players wanting to contribute but, for the efforts of censorius energizer bunnies.
A lack of transparency towards those this gift was given to freely make use of, has resulted in it being another good idea crapped on. Way to go to those nameless administrators and energizer bunnies who dedicated their time to making sure we didn't soil their turf opposed to updating the Wiki themselves.
At least we have the beginning of their "Don't Allow to Publish List".
1. Butcher
2. Krusty
Oh!! and you probably want to add me since messengers get shot on the Internet because of it's anonymous nature.
3. bustr
So who else has attempted to update the Wiki and gotten their work deleted? Butcher, Krusty, can you gents see if anyone you know has been censored and will update that in this posting? Heck, why didn't HTC just call it the Trainers page and give them sole domain to it if players are getting their work deleted? Doesn't seem like a very free Wiki tool otherwise.
Like I said Butcher and Krusty. Get 26 guys to help you 24x7 protect your submissions to the Wiki. Or just give up and let it sit idle and semi useless like it has for how many years now??
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I made this page: http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Me_410
Back in August... it is still not linked from the main page. It may not be perfect, but it is hell and gone better than the I-16 page for example.
I would be happy to continue contributing, but not if it's never going to see the light of day.
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Bustr,
I had no idea I was an admin and I'm sure there are a couple of other trainers that don't know either!
It was my understanding it was a wiki and anyone could post or edit,if I'm mistaken then I apologize for that. Personally I have only looked through the wiki and haven't added or removed any content.
As far as I know HTC has nothing to do with the wiki,the 2 players who started it are no longer active so it is what it is. Players can choose to ignore it,add content or edit but it's not the "Trainers" wiki or HTC's for that matter, it was intended to be player contributed. That said I doubt that anything was removed because of who posted it but rather because of content,however I'm only speculating as I have no idea who or what was edited or removed.
:salute
PS: for all I know it could have been done out of spite by another player,that wouldn't surprize me at all.
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I think there should be an active admin for it. When a page gets edited there should be a reason attached so either the admin can check it, of the person whose post was removed/edited can find out the "why".
Is this possible?
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No matter how many volunteers are working on it, or who has what authority to post edits - the simple fact is that when a new player shows up hitechcreations.com and clicks on game info - that is what is displayed.
People see: http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Aircraft_of_Aces_High_II
Your potential new customers don't see or care about the little "wiki" in that address - what they see is that it is the "official" information posted by www.hitechcreations.com about the aircraft in their game.
It doesn't take long for someone on a two-week trial to notice that there are some things missing from that list and that it is out of date.
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I'm all for a massive push to get the wiki updated, and I will certainly be happy to donate the time to help!
What we need is for a knowledgeable, responsible player with adequate time on their hands to take over the reigns to ensure new pages get added to the main list as they become "presentable".
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I think there should be an active admin for it. When a page gets edited there should be a reason attached so either the admin can check it, of the person whose post was removed/edited can find out the "why".
Is this possible?
click on the history tab on any page of a wiki, it shows all revisions and who did them.. sometimes why.
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I made this page: http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Me_410
Back in August... it is still not linked from the main page. It may not be perfect, but it is hell and gone better than the I-16 page for example.
I would be happy to continue contributing, but not if it's never going to see the light of day.
the wish should be that the aircraft page gets unlocked.. it hasn't been touched since 2009. :huh
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PS: for all I know it could have been done out of spite by another player,that wouldn't surprize me at all.
I think this was the case, I fixed up a Panther G page and few others, and they were either overwritten or erased, I realized its best just to leave it alone and walk away.
Sad part is I put hours and hours into listing information about the Panther G, only to watch it get deleted by a day.
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I'm sure Butcher's info was good. Why would a chump delete it? Who?
I noticed "Turn you idiot, turn" was removed from the Brew page, so someone is changing it.
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I'm sure Butcher's info was good. Why would a chump delete it? Who?
I noticed "Turn you idiot, turn" was removed from the Brew page, so someone is changing it.
Well that might be true, I stuck to historical data, deployment dates for Panther tanks, strengths and numbers - if something was wrong, someone could of emailed or message me I would of been happy to get the info right.
I wanted to give the entire history, far more accurate then a wikipedia page would be, I had over 20 books or sources I was going to publish as well, just to give more indepth detail.
But all good things come to an end I guess.
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I'm sure Butcher's info was good. Why would a chump delete it? Who?
I noticed "Turn you idiot, turn" was removed from the Brew page, so someone is changing it.
Good question Buckshot,why would someone do it?? To get your answer all you need do is read this forum for a little while. I guess it's the nature of the internet,anyone can do or say as they please without fear of repercussions.
A wiki is supposed to be free to access for content and editing,unfortunately that leaves it open to those who think it's ok to undo someones hard work. I suppose the lesson here is to backup everything so fixing the issue isn't such a big deal.
:salute
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I tried adding content to the AHwiki early on. Either I didn't know how or it never got added so that was the end for me.
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AHWiki needs to start over with it's policy. Change logs for all actions need to be public so if Butcher spends 80 hours creating content and updating the Wiki he can see who deleted his content along with the whole community. Other wise the AHWiki has been claimed by a person or persons unknown as their personal space knowing they have immunity. Also all the admins\mods need to be public so someone like Butcher has recource to HTC if the only reason for the deletion of his content is he's not a member of the in crowd at this time. Technical minutia like what Krusty and WMaker fight over with FW190 can be juried or posted as credited co-views on the subject.
Other wise the AHWiki is crapola as a free tool for the "WHOLE" AH community. Currently it's no different than giving the muppets the DA as their personal domain with no oversight by HTC. It's a whizz pit for little boys to kick each other in the nads by deleting content. But, then what is the common thread with the content that has survived which grants it immunity from the whizzers?
By the way, are logs available for the AHWiki that Skuzzy can search to see who performed deletes all of these years? It would go a long way towards returning confidence in using the AHWiki to post content. The current urban legend is only the chosen are allowed to post in the Holy Book of Gamey Wiki. All else get anonymously vetoed out of hand because they aren't friends with the chosen few. Krusty, Butcher's, and others content didn't just decide to delete themselves. Be interesting to see the results of looking through the logs for a pattern especially if the surviving content is owned by the same small group of contributors. Why would they be special and others not in that case?
Or HTC can just start over by logging all actions to the Wiki, making them transparent to the community, and publishing the identity of all admins and moderators since supposedly the Wiki is a knowledge source and not the whizz fest forums where mods need to be anonymous to help control heated passions with the number rules.
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If you go to any page, as long as your signed in, you can click the "History" tab at the top and see who edited the pages in order of the edits. You can also select two pages and click the "compare pages" button to see what was edited.
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Also, I just found out that you can restore the pages if someone clears your work out.
If it looks like someone is clearing pages just to be a d!ck, I suggest you send a note to Skuzzy and report the incident.
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Hey Butcher, take a look here: http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php?title=Panther_G&limit=500&action=history
It looks like you're the only one who'd modified the page... you can compare revisions there, and restore.
Is the missing data in any of those pages?
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So, we've got a group of active players here ready to kick this in gear and get these pages updated... we just need to get someone to get access turned over.
I nominate Fugi to run the show! At least for awhile...
Question is, how do we get access to update the planes/vehicles main pages?
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I made this page: http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Me_410
Back in August... it is still not linked from the main page. It may not be perfect, but it is hell and gone better than the I-16 page for example.
I would be happy to continue contributing, but not if it's never going to see the light of day.
Updated :aok The A/C index is one of the few protected pages because it's a main hub, and it would only be edited to link to new models added to the game.
Here's where you can find a list of current admins http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers&group=sysop&limit=50 in such a case.
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As stated before, this is a wiki. You all have access to edit and update. It's all transparent with a history of edits for every page, and a "contributions" page for every user. The only need for any admins is to manage the very few protected pages, and to handle conflicts should they arise.
Edit: As an example of how transparent it is...
Bustr, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.... Because it seems like you are, and yet what you are typing is somewhat like what I have observed as well. I tried updating several wiki entries and gave up after experiencing the same issues that Butcher describes.
So I said "screw it" and left it to whomever wants to stake claim to it as their own private playground.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=krusty&namespace=&year=&month=-1
Over a 1 month period almost 5 years ago, Krusty edited 3 content and 2 talk pages. One edit was over written by another user in error, and was restored by an admin as soon as the issue was noticed. Another edit was removed by HTC for improper format.
So as has been stated time and again, in regards to "What should be" on the wiki... All registered users are free to edit the wiki, so have at it.
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Here's the page about admins, and how to become one http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/AHWiki:Administrators ...I'm sure anyone who has shown a responsible demeanor around the community and wants to do the homework to be knowledgeable with the wiki system would be welcomed.
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Here's the page about admins, and how to become one http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/AHWiki:Administrators ...I'm sure anyone who has shown a responsible demeanor around the community and wants to do the homework to be knowledgeable with the wiki system would be welcomed.
Thx Murdr, I was getting in over my head trying to explain how wiki was setup!
I also didn't want to start any rumours,I was only speculating that another player could have edited or removed content out of spite!!!
:salute
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So, we've got a group of active players here ready to kick this in gear and get these pages updated... we just need to get someone to get access turned over.
I nominate Fugi to run the show! At least for awhile...
Question is, how do we get access to update the planes/vehicles main pages?
I don't see my name on that "admin" list that Murdr posted the link to, so I guess I can't do it. :neener:
Thanks for the info Murdr
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Thx Murdr, I was getting in over my head trying to explain how wiki was setup!
HTC wanted to put it in place, and reached out to a number of volunteers with different specialties just to get a basic foundation together for the wiki to grow from. I'm not sure where all this wierdness is coming from about a shadow editing conspiracy, but it is easily debunked because everything is logged, and easily view in history and contribution pages.
There are some wiki standards that are expected to be followed..basic stuff like avoiding subjective commets, commentary in an article, citing sources where statements might be questioned. Anyone can come along and edit after you, but you can come back if you so choose and restore your previous contributions. If there's a disagreement, there are discussion pages for every content page, and "talk" pages for every user. I basically knew little about wiki editing or markup language before joining in on this project, so I know it just takes a little observation of what's already there to figure out how to work with it. It's not rocket surgery ;)
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I tried to update the pages a few times, it kept getting deleted or modified with wrong info, i stopped updating.
Butcher, I'm not sure where you ran into problems. http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=butcher&namespace=&year=&month=-1 shows your contribution log. The M-18 history only shows additions (underlined) since your last edit (removed text would display with a strikethrough line) http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php?title=M-18&diff=8954&oldid=8033 . And the Panther G history shows you as the last editor http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php?title=Panther_G&action=history .
Is it possible that you had only "show preview"d the page, but had not saved it? I'm struggling to think of another issue to cause what you described since everything is logged. Your edits are high quality content, and I would hope that you'd give it another go at some point. :salute
--snip--
bustr, I'd like to reply to you with a blanked call of major BS. Everything you posted with the exception of a direct cut/paste from the wiki itself is utter non-sense. Your user log on the wiki is empty...zero...nada...nothing http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php?limit=50&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=bustr&namespace=&year=&month=-1 You are trolling in ignorance and spewing disinformation, much of which has been shown to be utterly false and incorrect with posts already in this thread.
There is no submission process. Anyone with a bbs ID can log in to the wiki and edit using the same login. Everything IS logged. The Trainers nor any other HTC sanctioned volunteer group is responsible for updating the AHWiki at large, though the teams may have selected pages related to their teams. The AHWiki is another community tool HTC has provided, much like this very bbs is a community tool. AHWiki admins are just users HTC has entrusted with a few extra nessesary tools to maintain the wiki. They are not responsible for updating the AHWiki at large. The list of admins is in fact available on the AHWiki. Those admins, like everyone else have their actions logged. Here is my log bustr http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&limit=500&target=Murdr Please take a look at the long arse list and keep in mind that I don't even get a comp account.
HTC - it is frankly embarrassing for planes and vehicles that have been in this game for months to not even be listed for new players when they hit the game info link on your webpage. C'mon guys - it doesn't take that much effort to update that wiki and highlight some of the new rides you guys have spent so much time creating.
HTC provided a wiki so that the community could help fill in detailed, and often changing information related to Aces High. Since this thread was brought to my attention, I went ahead and created a guide for creating a new aircraft page...
http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Help:New_aircraft
...a supporting page for adding performance graphs
http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Aces_High_II_Performance_Charts
...updated the aircraft index page
http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Aircraft_of_Aces_High_II
...set up aircraft pages that did not already exist
http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/P-40F
http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/P-40N
http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Ju_87G-2
http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/B-29
http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Mosquito_Mk_XVI
http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/G4M1
http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Sea_Hurricane_Mk_I
http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/He_111H
http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Ki-43-II
...plus a bunch of other odds and ends that I came across along the way.
The AHWiki is generally supposed to work from the bottom up. Community contributes, issues arise, and attention is needed from higher up in one form or another. Community contributions have been at a trickle for quite some time, and it follows that so has attention up the line. Any one of you with a bbs login can change that trend. I just put all the technical wiki markup language in place so that the average person can come by and fill in the blanks for those pages...let's see how long they sit there static when every single bbs user has (at least in theory) the ability to add useful information.
Edit: PS: Wiki file uploads are broken for the weekend until Skuzzy gets in the office and I'm guessing change the default permissions on a directory.
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Murdr - You da man!!
Alright gents, he's got us set up with a ton of available work to do, so let's start rockin this!
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Okay, I have added speed + climb rate charts for all the aircraft that did not have them:
A6M3
B-29
G4M
HE 111-H
JU 87-G2
Ki-43-II
Lancaster III (Updated with changes since Lanc overhaul in 2.30)
Mosquito Mk XVI
P-40N
Sea Hurricane Mk I
If I missed any, let me know!!
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Okay, I have added speed + climb rate charts for all the aircraft that did not have them:
A6M3
B-29
G4M
HE 111-H
JU 87-G2
Ki-43-II
Lancaster III (Updated with changes since Lanc overhaul in 2.30)
Mosquito Mk XVI
P-40N
Sea Hurricane Mk I
If I missed any, let me know!!
:rock You da man :salute
There was a technical issue with uploading files, which was obviously just fixed within the past 2 hours. I've since found an issue with the wiki generating thumbnails of images. This has also been been bug reported. Thanks for your contributions tunnelrat!
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Yessir!
Can you add the P-47M to the lineup?
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Thanks, I thought I might have missed 1 or 2.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/P-47M
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Thank you, sir!
Speed/Climb added.
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It might not be a bad idea to set up a forum where people can post potential updates, new articles, and sources for peer and (hopefully) admin review prior to actually submitting them to the wiki. This way we have a record of these things being submitted in an open setting. Hopefully this would limit the issue of articles being removed or changed by admins with no explanation which is clearly a cause of frustration.
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It might not be a bad idea to set up a forum where people can post potential updates, new articles, and sources for peer and (hopefully) admin review prior to actually submitting them to the wiki. This way we have a record of these things being submitted in an open setting. Hopefully this would limit the issue of articles being removed or changed by admins with no explanation which is clearly a cause of frustration.
Just to reiterate, the wiki is an open setting, everything is logged..even deletions, phantom edits and deletions are a myth
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,347468.0.html