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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: RedBull1 on April 19, 2013, 03:09:02 AM

Title: In Game Tracers vs Guncam Tracers
Post by: RedBull1 on April 19, 2013, 03:09:02 AM
So these are just a few questions after seeing a couple guncam clips from WWII and I note three things:

1.) the amount of tracers coming out of their guns seem to be about 1/2 of the amount of tracers that come out of our guns (ex. the pony or f4u) - perhaps it's just me though

2.) Most of the tracers I see in these clips (a few of the clips were in color) are actually red rather than our yellow tracers

3.) why do our tracers have those white streaks behind them? I always disliked the white streak (I assume it's supposed to be a smoke trail from the bullets?) I don't really see anything close to that in the clips.



Again, I am in no way an expert, just a few observations I was curious about.




Thanks

(http://www.made-from-india.com/gallery/e41690ea30a5ff024cf8229c747aa4e1.jpg)




edit: after looking through the clips again, actually most if not all tracers were yellow, but as they got further away they turned red  :headscratch:

Title: Re: In Game Tracers vs Guncam Tracers
Post by: scott66 on April 19, 2013, 03:18:07 AM
REDDDDDDDDDDDBULLLLLLLLLL :joystick: :lol :banana: :salute i seen the same thing untill i changed my MEDS...
Title: Re: In Game Tracers vs Guncam Tracers
Post by: Copprhed on April 19, 2013, 06:41:23 AM
Frankly if you're not playing, your opinion is poo.... come back so your opinion won't be poo....just one more RB, just one more......
Title: Re: In Game Tracers vs Guncam Tracers
Post by: Slate on April 19, 2013, 10:01:10 AM
  Did any fighters actually load NO tracers in WW2? It's bothersome in game to not be able to see how poorly some dweeb shoots at you. Unless you are a realy good don't do it.  :old:
Title: Re: In Game Tracers vs Guncam Tracers
Post by: Bizman on April 19, 2013, 01:37:58 PM
I recall reading some WW2 air combat stuff, where the pilot asked the ground personnel to load the belts with every fifth with tracers. That leads me to believe the pilot could affect the density of tracer rounds - or even leave them away if he felt like a really good shot.

About the colours: IMO WW2 colour films weren't too accurate in colour reproduction and the bygone 70 years certainly have had an affect to the originals even before they started to transfer them to first magnetic, then digital formats. Add to that, that there was and still is several types of films which act differently by their very nature. Some are vivid, some flat, some tend to overexpose certain hues to warm or cold/red or blue. Heck, even my monitor has a bunch of presets like "photo", "movie", "standard" etc. With all these variations you really can't tell the real colour until you've seen the real stuff. Even then your senses may lie, making you believe an enhanced picture is the most life-like.
Title: Re: In Game Tracers vs Guncam Tracers
Post by: Wiley on April 19, 2013, 01:48:22 PM
I thought I'd seen the trails of bullets in some guncam footage I've happened by over the years, although to be honest when I think about it, most of my memories of bullets hitting aircraft are from the game... :D  Kinda sad now...

The number of tracers I see in the game seem to be pretty close to what I've seen in videos though...  Current bugged display lancs excepted.

Wiley.
Title: Re: In Game Tracers vs Guncam Tracers
Post by: Vinkman on April 19, 2013, 02:02:56 PM
I thought the white trail was a vapor trail. Perhaps the water vapor in the air is condensed due the pressure created by the shock wave around the bullet, tunring it into liquid water droplets which reflects/refracts light differently than water vapor so they show up as white.
Title: Re: In Game Tracers vs Guncam Tracers
Post by: hitech on April 19, 2013, 02:18:40 PM
So these are just a few questions after seeing a couple guncam clips from WWII and I note three things:

1.) the amount of tracers coming out of their guns seem to be about 1/2 of the amount of tracers that come out of our guns (ex. the pony or f4u) - perhaps it's just me though

2.) Most of the tracers I see in these clips (a few of the clips were in color) are actually red rather than our yellow tracers

3.) why do our tracers have those white streaks behind them? I always disliked the white streak (I assume it's supposed to be a smoke trail from the bullets?) I don't really see anything close to that in the clips.


This is not anything to do with film.

1.) Your computer has the real bullets for your airplane, what you see other people shoot is just an approximation bullet so that you can see that he is shooting tracers. We cut down on the numbers of tracers simply for frame rates.

2.) Tracers come many different colors. We chose our color based on working in a computer environment.

3.) Depending on what tracers you have , you will see smoke trails behind them. There are many examples on you tube showing different smoke trail visuals.

HiTech
 

Title: Re: In Game Tracers vs Guncam Tracers
Post by: RedBull1 on April 19, 2013, 03:09:59 PM
This is not anything to do with film.

1.) Your computer has the real bullets for your airplane, what you see other people shoot is just an approximation bullet so that you can see that he is shooting tracers. We cut down on the numbers of tracers simply for frame rates.

2.) Tracers come many different colors. We chose our color based on working in a computer environment.

3.) Depending on what tracers you have , you will see smoke trails behind them. There are many examples on you tube showing different smoke trail visuals.

HiTech
 


Cool stuff, thanks :aok
Title: Re: In Game Tracers vs Guncam Tracers
Post by: Sunka on April 19, 2013, 03:29:47 PM
Frankly if you're not playing, your opinion is poo.... come back so your opinion won't be poo....just one more RB, just one more......
This.

 :aok
Title: Re: In Game Tracers vs Guncam Tracers
Post by: Rob52240 on April 19, 2013, 03:39:24 PM
Did the Russians use green tracers back then?
Title: Re: In Game Tracers vs Guncam Tracers
Post by: HL117 on April 19, 2013, 03:42:45 PM
Frankly if you're not playing, your opinion is poo.... come back so your opinion won't be poo....just one more RB, just one more......


Don't be Poo    :eek: ..........resubscribe!
Title: Re: In Game Tracers vs Guncam Tracers
Post by: FLOOB on April 19, 2013, 04:07:49 PM
Those are phosphorous trails you noobs. Look at any gun cam films from WWII. No the russians didn't use green tracers back then, neither did any of the other soviet states.
Title: Re: In Game Tracers vs Guncam Tracers
Post by: Badcore on April 19, 2013, 04:09:40 PM
SO is it just the Tracer round that has the vapor trail? seams to me like when tracers are on all bullets have vapor and when off none do...seams like the vapor trail should always be there even when tracers are off....idk tho im nab :rolleyes:
Title: Re: In Game Tracers vs Guncam Tracers
Post by: Arlo on April 19, 2013, 04:13:49 PM

Don't be Poo    :eek: ..........resubscribe!

(http://www.terminusgames.it/foto/grandi/star_wars_trading_card_propaganda_poster_01.jpg)
Title: Re: In Game Tracers vs Guncam Tracers
Post by: muzik on April 19, 2013, 04:42:36 PM
So these are just a few questions after seeing a couple guncam clips from WWII and I note three things:

1.) the amount of tracers coming out of their guns seem to be about 1/2 of the amount of tracers that come out of our guns (ex. the pony or f4u) - perhaps it's just me though

Not sure, but I'm guessing that the actual footage that gave you this impression is/was being shown in slow[er] motion. Not the typical slow motion.  It's done a lot to those clips, the high deflection shots would likely be a blink of the eye in real time.

Also, many times those clips are mislabeled on youtube and even in some professional films, you might be looking at cannon rounds being fired instead of 50s.

2.) Most of the tracers I see in these clips (a few of the clips were in color) are actually red rather than our yellow tracers

I believe red tracers are used most of the time by most nations. No evidence to back that up, but red has less effect on night vision.


3.) why do our tracers have those white streaks behind them? I always disliked the white streak (I assume it's supposed to be a smoke trail from the bullets?) I don't really see anything close to that in the clips.


Most of the footage I've seen have smoke trails. I've always thought that some of this could have been vapor trails. Otherwise, there should be no smoke unless there is a tracer.

I recall reading some WW2 air combat stuff, where the pilot asked the ground personnel to load the belts with every fifth with tracers. That leads me to believe the pilot could affect the density of tracer rounds - or even leave them away if he felt like a really good shot.

About the colours: IMO WW2 colour films weren't too accurate in colour reproduction and the bygone 70 years certainly have had an affect to the originals even before they started to transfer them to first magnetic, then digital formats. Add to that, that there was and still is several types of films which act differently by their very nature. Some are vivid, some flat, some tend to overexpose certain hues to warm or cold/red or blue. Heck, even my monitor has a bunch of presets like "photo", "movie", "standard" etc. With all these variations you really can't tell the real colour until you've seen the real stuff. Even then your senses may lie, making you believe an enhanced picture is the most life-like.

I was thinking the same about the color. From what I've read every fifth round was standard, pilots made other requests like loading tracers at the end of the belts and nowhere else to warn that ammunition was about to run out...there were no "ammunition counters" in the cockpit.

But pilot preference could also explain the difference Redbull is noticing if the pilot in the clips had non standard tracer counts and placement. Tracers are not as effective as bullets.

Title: Re: In Game Tracers vs Guncam Tracers
Post by: lunatic1 on April 19, 2013, 04:49:19 PM
Did the Russians use green tracers back then?
PURPLE
Title: Re: In Game Tracers vs Guncam Tracers
Post by: lunatic1 on April 19, 2013, 04:51:20 PM
So these are just a few questions after seeing a couple guncam clips from WWII and I note three things:

1.) the amount of tracers coming out of their guns seem to be about 1/2 of the amount of tracers that come out of our guns (ex. the pony or f4u) - perhaps it's just me though

2.) Most of the tracers I see in these clips (a few of the clips were in color) are actually red rather than our yellow tracers

3.) why do our tracers have those white streaks behind them? I always disliked the white streak (I assume it's supposed to be a smoke trail from the bullets?) I don't really see anything close to that in the clips.



Again, I am in no way an expert, just a few observations I was curious about.




Thanks

(http://www.made-from-india.com/gallery/e41690ea30a5ff024cf8229c747aa4e1.jpg)




edit: after looking through the clips again, actually most if not all tracers were yellow, but as they got further away they turned red  :headscratch:


game   game   game :joystick:game game game
Title: Re: In Game Tracers vs Guncam Tracers
Post by: muzik on April 19, 2013, 04:53:38 PM
SO is it just the Tracer round that has the vapor trail? seams to me like when tracers are on all bullets have vapor and when off none do...seams like the vapor trail should always be there even when tracers are off....idk tho im nab :rolleyes:

If I remember right, Htc modeled standard tracer count and spacing, you don't see the bullets, only the tracers.