Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Slade on April 19, 2013, 01:46:31 PM

Title: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: Slade on April 19, 2013, 01:46:31 PM
It would not hurt if we could more easily dump excess ammo. Yes some of us do this (.303s, 7mm etc) before taking off.

Simply having check boxes for each ammo type defaulting to Enabled for instance.
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: Karnak on April 19, 2013, 02:19:52 PM
Better would be for people to understand how little a difference dumping the ammo makes.  Also, you never know, those rifle caliber rounds might end up making the difference.
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: SmokinLoon on April 19, 2013, 02:33:06 PM
It would not hurt if we could more easily dump excess ammo. Yes some of us do this (.303s, 7mm etc) before taking off.

Simply having check boxes for each ammo type defaulting to Enabled for instance.

Idiocy.  Ignorance.  Gamey.  Those are the three words that describes those people who actually think "dumping" the rear 8mm's in the 110, the .30's in the Mossi, rear 13mm's in the 410, etc, will help them turn tighter, roll better, or actually win a battle easier.  Dumb dumb dumb.  The benefits of the wee extra firepower outweigh the few ounces of weight gained by "dumping" it.  If people actually think being a few lbs lighter is the difference than winning, losing, running away successfully, etc, then they should not have been in that predicament in the first place.  AND... instead of dumping ammo, fly around for another 2-3 mins before engaging.  Burn the fuel off, dont dump the ammo.  

Don't dump the ammo, use it. I've lost count of the number of aircraft that I've given a bloody nose to (oiled engine, PW, etc), and they gave up the fight or broke off their attack long enough for me to get my main guns on them for 2nd, 3rd, or 4th chance to shoot them down.  
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: Karnak on April 19, 2013, 02:53:32 PM
Forget just a bloody nose, I've outright killed enemies with the four.303s on the Mossie and Spitfire Mk IX.
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: Wiley on April 19, 2013, 03:03:33 PM
Ammo doesn't give you a meaningful improvement vs its ability to kill although for the way I fly it, I wish I could tell the crew chief to just remove the 13mm guns in the front of the 109K4.  I never shoot em.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: Bino on April 19, 2013, 03:11:05 PM
Too complex. Just have a weight selection slider in the hangar.  The AI "crew chief" will choose what to delete from your plane to achieve the desired weight: fuel, oil, ammo, armor, etc.

    ;)
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: Lusche on April 19, 2013, 03:19:21 PM
Too complex. Just have a weight selection slider in the hangar.  The AI "crew chief" will choose what to delete from your plane to achieve the desired weight: fuel, oil, ammo, armor...


... pilot  :devil
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: The Fugitive on April 19, 2013, 04:44:12 PM

... pilot  :devil


LOL!!!  :aok
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: Chalenge on April 19, 2013, 04:53:42 PM
You haven't lived until you see a team mate dumping his pintle and coax ammunition of his Panzer. Yes, this actually happens.
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: kvuo75 on April 19, 2013, 05:04:01 PM
Someone awhile back (snailman?) did the math.. all the ammo in the tail gun of the 110 weighs as much as something like 2 minutes of fuel. LOL

Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: guncrasher on April 19, 2013, 05:08:21 PM
how much did the ammo in the bf110 weight?

semp
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: Lusche on April 19, 2013, 05:12:51 PM
Someone awhile back (snailman?) did the math.. all the ammo in the tail gun of the 110 weighs as much as something like 2 minutes of fuel. LOL




Wasn't me, but the number is correct, it's just under 2mins at WEP (20% longer at MIL)


Rear gun ammo is 98lbs, that's 0.56% of the takeoff weight of a 50% fuel 110G with big gun package and without any ords.
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: guncrasher on April 19, 2013, 05:26:55 PM
Someone awhile back (snailman?) did the math.. all the ammo in the tail gun of the 110 weighs as much as something like 2 minutes of fuel. LOL



there is one equation you guys forget and that is the mind.  if you believe that something you do gives you an edge then who cares what others think.  it is like when people talk about "two pilots of equal skill"  but forget that there isnt such thing.  there are no pilots of equal skill, not in aces high and not in real life either.

if somebody believes that spending the tail ammo gives you and edge, who are you guys to say that it doesnt?  you can bring all kinds of facts but you can never discount the edge your mind gives you.

it's like when you play your favorite airplane because you believe it gives you an edge over others.  seriously?  is it the airplane itself or your belief that that airplane is better or a combination of both that gives you the edge?

if it was the airplane itself, you would never be able to out turn a zero in most airplanes.

semp
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: Slade on April 19, 2013, 05:32:17 PM
Thanks all for you nice feedback.  :aok

I am not here to debate weight vs. plane performance vs. mental stability vs. whatever.

To me sometimes I find myself in a position where a 5% difference (or less) makes all the difference.  With my hardware, skill, knowledge etc.

I am not demanding or being abnoxious in this request. My exact words were "It would not hurt if we could more easily dump excess ammo."

Since thanks.  :salute
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: Chalenge on April 19, 2013, 05:33:44 PM
My exact words were "It would not hurt if we could more easily dump excess ammo."

But that's wrong. It perpetuates ignorance, which hurts us all.
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: guncrasher on April 19, 2013, 05:38:34 PM

Wasn't me, but the number is correct, it's just under 2mins at WEP (20% longer at MIL)


Rear gun ammo is 98lbs, that's 0.56% of the takeoff weight of a 50% fuel 110G with big gun package and without any ords.

so it is about the weight of 13 gallons of fuel?  assuming that 1 gallon of fuel is around 6 lbs. so if the bf110 using 13 gallons every 2 minutes it would need about 13x30=390 gallons an hour.  man, good thing it they didnt buy the fuel at today's prices.  390x$4 bucks is a lot of money an hour.

so how much fuel did the bf110 carry and how much did it weight?  no wonder it only had hand grenades in it's bomb bay, fricking fuel was way to heavy.

semp

Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: guncrasher on April 19, 2013, 05:39:37 PM
But that's wrong. It perpetuates ignorance, which hurts us all.

you afraid that we might not get a shot at the quantum physics nobel prize?


semp
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: Karnak on April 19, 2013, 05:43:19 PM
You haven't lived until you see a team mate dumping his pintle and coax ammunition of his Panzer. Yes, this actually happens.
What possible line of thought would make one do that?  I'm not asking for a reasonable, internally consistent or logical line of thought, just a line of any kind of thought.

Semp,

The Mosquito carries about 3,500lbs of fuel when you load it with 100% of internal fuel, 540 gallons.  Bf110 is somewhat less than that, but still a lot.
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: Lusche on April 19, 2013, 05:44:30 PM
so how much fuel did the bf110 carry and how much did it weight?  no wonder it only had hand grenades in it's bomb bay, fricking fuel was way to heavy.


There is not even a bomb bay in the 110  :)
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: guncrasher on April 19, 2013, 05:47:32 PM

There is not even a bomb bay in the 110  :)

it was a joke.


semp
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: Chalenge on April 19, 2013, 06:08:13 PM
you afraid that we might not get a shot at the quantum physics nobel prize?

There is absolutely no concern that will ever happen.
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: Slade on April 19, 2013, 06:22:14 PM
Quote
It perpetuates ignorance, which hurts us all.

I disagree.

I agree the effect is minor.  Perhaps even very minor. To me and others this is a game of very slim margins indeed sometimes.  If encountering pilots of equal skill, planes etc. etc. etc.  Subtle things in an encounter can be just the thing that makes the difference.  Yes I know how to bleed fuel and the like.

I respect that your opinion may be different than mine.  Again, I agree the effect is minor.

Factually, it is a pure data point.  It does exist in the context of pure facts.
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: SmokinLoon on April 19, 2013, 09:39:10 PM
I disagree.

I agree the effect is minor.  Perhaps even very minor. To me and others this is a game of very slim margins indeed sometimes.  If encountering pilots of equal skill, planes etc. etc. etc.  Subtle things in an encounter can be just the thing that makes the difference.  Yes I know how to bleed fuel and the like.

I respect that your opinion may be different than mine.  Again, I agree the effect is minor.

Factually, it is a pure data point.  It does exist in the context of pure facts.

There is no "slim" margin.  If you and I up a 110, Mossi, etc, and you dump all your "worthless" .30 cal ammo be it in the rear defensive guns or front guns, I still can do everything you can do regardless if you're 100 lbs lighter or not.  Each and every move you do I can match and in many cases out perform you because I know the edges of stalls better, how to use the rudder better, how to use the torque to my advantage better, etc, etc.  Stop telling yourself that dumping ammo "helps" you and you'll be a better virtual pilot.  Trust me.  You'll be far better off listening to others when we say to "learn the plane", burn off the fuel, etc, than to do gamey things such as dumping your ammo.  It does not work.  Seriously.   
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: Dragon Tamer on April 19, 2013, 11:49:19 PM

... pilot  :devil


(http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd324/bdpopeye/TPMigration6/1-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: Slade on April 20, 2013, 07:21:09 AM
And the facts are (example)...

BF109g2 with 25% fuel - weight = 6358
BF109g2 with 25% fuel , with all 7mm purged - weight = 6293


Plus you KNOW when a 20mm hits ... its gonna hurt as opposed to a 7mm.  That is another reason I do it.
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: Slade on April 20, 2013, 07:49:38 AM
.
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: earl1937 on April 20, 2013, 08:04:50 AM
It would not hurt if we could more easily dump excess ammo. Yes some of us do this (.303s, 7mm etc) before taking off.

Simply having check boxes for each ammo type defaulting to Enabled for instance.
Don't want to comment on technical aspects of ammo dumping, here is one thing I know for certain: Oddcaf has more kills in a MK 6 than anyone in the game! first thing he does after takeoff is get rid of the 480 lbs of 303 in the nose, burns LO and RO first to adjust his CG, then proceeds to kill with the efficiency of any fighter in this game!
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: icepac on April 20, 2013, 08:22:52 AM
While firing off the rear guns on the 110 has little effect on it's maneuverability, the recoil helps acceleration and I sometimes use it after leveling out at 35,000 feet.

Try it out and report back.
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: The Fugitive on April 20, 2013, 09:16:08 AM
And the facts are (example)...

BF109g2 with 25% fuel - weight = 6358
BF109g2 with 25% fuel , with all 7mm purged - weight = 6293

  • Minor yes.
  • Factually exists yes.
  • Is ACM skill the most profound determiner of an outcome yes.
  • All things being equal, can a slightly lighter plane make a subtle difference yes.

Plus you KNOW when a 20mm hits ... its gonna hurt as opposed to a 7mm.  That is another reason I do it.

the 1% weight savings isn't giving you any advantage, even if you think it might be. From looking at your score page your aim is something that may help more. The top "killers" easily keep their hit % over 7 (which is twice as high as your) and so kill quicker, which leads to "more often". I'd hate to see you hanging your fighter prowess on 1% weight advantage because against someone who knows how to fight it most certainly is not going to be enough. On top of that, the saving of 65 lbs of weight doesn't, in my book anyway, out weight the difference of dieing, or killing one more enemy with those 7mm. 
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: Karnak on April 20, 2013, 09:20:00 AM
From looking at your score page your aim is something that may help more.
If he is dumping ammo his aim stat is going to be way off of what it actually is.
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: The Fugitive on April 20, 2013, 09:43:00 AM
If he is dumping ammo his aim stat is going to be way off of what it actually is.

True, I didn't think of that. Going by his high kill points I'd guess he was hitting pretty good, as well as his low assist numbers. It seems when he "gets" his shot he hits well, but due to his low K/D and K/S he has a hard time getting those shot windows. Being out flown. 
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: waystin2 on April 20, 2013, 10:24:10 AM
Diet and exercise is a better way to go...  :D
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: Slade on April 20, 2013, 10:44:10 AM
You guys spent more time looking at my stats than I have in the last 6 months!

You have not factored in the main ingredient...I am silly.  Silliness skews ALL stats.  Always.   Sometimes I fire ahead of my own countrymen's planes just to say hello.  Some times I shoot trees.  Sometimes I dont.  Sometimes I shoot at the moon.  Its my $ and I am having a BLAST!  

I love this game man.  You guys get way to critical.  Too many "experts".

Lighten up.  Have fun.  Maybe shoot down a plane if it crosses your path.  :banana:


EDIT: Sometimes I play "ram the red guys 6".  I try to ram the enemy plane from behind (even when I have ammo).

...oh and it would not hurt if we could more easily dump excess ammo. Simply having check boxes for each ammo type defaulting to Enabled for instance.


Thanks.  :salute
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: Rob52240 on May 21, 2013, 07:10:17 PM
All tailguns in the DA should be .50 BMG or 20MikeMike.
Title: Re: Dumping Ammo Before Takeoff
Post by: gyrene81 on May 21, 2013, 07:13:48 PM
sooo...diggin up dead discussions?