Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: bubba on May 02, 2013, 04:27:21 AM
-
As i am not a very good pilot, i do get lucky now and then. I have noticed that when my plane collides with another i am the one who usually goes down, and the other plane either flies off or is still in the fight. I have noticed it when others do the same while i am flying on their wing or at co-alt. I, me, my opinion is when two planes collide why not make them both go down?
-
Its all been talked about a lot has this but basically this wont happen because on the other guys screen you might not have have had a colision, with net lag and other things to take into consideration what you see on your screen might not be what the guy you collided with is seeing.
Although it can be frustrating at times the collision model does work :salute
-
Because there are 4 planes.
Your plane and the enemy plane. both of you then have a clone on the other persons computer. In the ideal world, both clones would occupy the exact same space as their master. Sadly because of lag this cannot happen, so the clones drift around near where the master is.
So on your screen his clone is hitting you, on his screen you are 50ft to the right passing cleanly. If you made it so both pilots went down you would suddenly find people ramming into your plane when you can see them 20-70ft in front of your gun sight.
Also here is an older thread on the matter.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,343827.0.html
-
You were trying to Ho in a spit weren't you. :furious
-
"So on your screen his clone is hitting you, on his screen you are 50ft to the right passing cleanly. If you made it so both pilots went down you would suddenly find people ramming into your plane when you can see them 20-70ft in front of your gun sight."
this is obviously what is affecting my gunnery also and needs to be fixed. I know im a better shot than i am ! )
-
Collisions:
What a player sees on their screen is what happens. If you collide with something/someone, you take damage. If you do not collide, you do not take damage. So basically, if your game engine sees that your plane touched another plane, you will take damage. If the other plane's game engine (the other guy's screen) doesn't see that his plane touched your plane, he won't take damage.
Gunnery:
What the "shooter" sees is what happens. If you shoot at someone and your game engine registers a hit, that info is sent to the other player's game engine and he sees/hears/feels the hits. You are shooting at what is on your screen, not "the clone that's flying around somewhere near the master". Because of the delay of the Internet, it's very possible that someone will get hit (and even blow up) even though on their screen the other plane never had a guns solution.
-
"So on your screen his clone is hitting you, on his screen you are 50ft to the right passing cleanly. If you made it so both pilots went down you would suddenly find people ramming into your plane when you can see them 20-70ft in front of your gun sight."
this is obviously what is affecting my gunnery also and needs to be fixed. I know im a better shot than i am ! )
Sorry, but this actually makes gunnery slightly easier as your target's evasives are slightly delayed by lag.
-
I have, at times, had success with ran aileron roll. It seems to work better with the P47.
-
Just fly with your eyes closed...if you don't see it, it didn't happen :noid
-
I recently attacked a set of B17's flown by a veteran player, IraqVet, and one of his aircraft went down after he got a collision message and he complained to me about my lack of ability etc. etc. etc. I responded that I had not received a collision message, had heard no impact and received no damage, therefore "I" had not made a collision mistake as he suggested. I've read all the threads on collisions and knew I was right so I suggested he did not know how the collision coding worked, but he vehemently disagreed. I was awarded 3 kills because he bailed the other 2 after the "collision". I found this quite humorous and still do.
-
Y'know... I've been thinking a fair bit on collisions over the last while. I know how it works, I know it's technically possible to use it to your advantage although I believe it's not consistent enough to be anything approaching a reliable means of attacking another airplane.
What makes me curious about it is, I've played a couple other MMO shooter type games lately, mostly Planetside 2. You can run into other vehicles there. That I know of, the damage is symmetrical there. I crash into you, we both take damage.
Is it due to the relatively low closing speeds and slower gameplay that they can make it work? The other similar flight sims to this don't have collisions, do they?
Wiley.
-
To be completely honest, I think that if either plane registers a hit both should take damage. If I were flying against someone in real life it doesn't matter who hit who, both of us are still going down. Just don't put yourself in a position where a collision is even remotely possible. I understand that many might not agree, but it's my 0.02. :salute
edit: spelling :cry
-
To be completely honest, I think that if either plane registers a hit both should take damage. If I were flying against someone in real life it doesn't matter who hit who, both of us are still going down. Just don't put yourself in a position where a collision is even remotely possible. I understand that many might not agree, but it's my 0.02. :salute
That would have consequences exactly opposite to 'real life', exactly opposite what you are hoping for.
You simply can't do it 'just like RL' because the underlying reality is fundamentally different. In AH we have two realities with 4 planes. You can't just ignore that.
What you are really whishing for is an internet without lag, that would make a collision model entirely "like real life" possible.
-
To be completely honest, I think that if either plane registers a hit both should take damage. If I were flying against someone in real life it doesn't matter who hit who, both of us are still going down. Just don't put yourself in a position where a collision is even remotely possible. I understand that many might not agree, but it's my 0.02. :salute
edit: spelling :cry
With that scenario, you could avoid a collision and then blow up because the other player did not avoid it. I am certain that would be far worse.
Right now, all players have absolute control over colliding with another player. Any change, such as the one you want, would take control away from you.
If you avoid the collision, you take no damage. Right now, your computer assigns the damage to your plane if you intersect another object.
If we could guarantee the position of every object, on every computer was in the exact same 3D location, then the exact thing you want would happen with the existing code in place. There is no way to absolutely insure the location of moving objects, in 3D space, across the Internet. It cannot be done as every packet latency changes.
-
To be completely honest, I think that if either plane registers a hit both should take damage.
that's because you don't understand how collisions work in Aces High
-
(http://www.gstelmack.com/Collision.gif)
Here is an animation someone (Lusche?) put together. It shows the film OVERLAPPED of a single collision, but the views are from the two different computers.
(http://www.gstelmack.com/Collision.gif)
As you can see, the plane that is flying strait and level are both planes overlapping. From one view the pony collides from behind, for the other computers view he didn't even come close.
This is caused by internet lag. It takes time for the data to go from your computer to texas, and then to the other players computer. So things are "off" due to that time difference. To get around this the game is designed to be played on your computer. So what you see is what is happening. So if you collide, you get damage. He may not see a collision, so he shouldn't get damage.
Best rule of thumb, AVOID RUNNING INTO OTHER THINGS. then you can only take damage when his bullets hit you. :devil
-
If the system recognizes a collision it recognizes a collision. How does 1 object take damage and the other does not? I understand it take 2 to HO, but both should suffer the consequences of it.
-
If the system recognizes a collision it recognizes a collision. How does 1 object take damage and the other does not?
Because of the two realities. Your'S and your opponents, which will differ. See the animation above.
If you sucessfully doge my ram attempt on your screen, why would you still like to blow up?
-
With that scenario, you could avoid a collision and then blow up because the other player did not avoid it. I am certain that would be far worse.
Right now, all players have absolute control over colliding with another player. Any change, such as the one you want, would take control away from you.
If you avoid the collision, you take no damage. Right now, your computer assigns the damage to your plane if you intersect another object.
If we could guarantee the position of every object, on every computer was in the exact same 3D location, then the exact thing you want would happen with the existing code in place. There is no way to absolutely insure the location of moving objects, in 3D space, across the Internet. It cannot be done as every packet latency changes.
That makes sense skuzzy, I see why that's preferable. I won't push it because frankly, I think what we have now works fine. I was just expressing a thought I had. :aok
And Coombz, I understand perfectly how it works. Like I stated above and in my post, it was me really just thinking aloud and expressing my thoughts.
:salute
-
If the system recognizes a collision it recognizes a collision. How does 1 object take damage and the other does not? I understand it take 2 to HO, but both should suffer the consequences of it.
Because the other object did not collide, on that players computer. Again, you really want your plane to blow up when you make the effort to avoid the collision, but the other guy did not? You want to give the other guy that kind of power over you?
The "system" that recognizes an intersection with another object, is YOUR computer. You did not avoid the collision. If the other player flies off, it is because he did avoid the collision, on HIS computer.
In an HO, you may see you plane hitting his, but on his computer he was still 500 yards out when you blew up.
Bottomline is this; Any other solution to the 'collision' model will end up giving power to the other player, over you. You want grief? That is exactly what you will get. Right now, if YOU avoid the collision, YOU will not take damage. Period.
-
I wish HiTech would code in an option we could set for players who demand that both planes go down when one collides. It would be interesting to see how fast those players would come to the board screaming how they avoided the collision yet was blown up anyway.
-
I wish HiTech would code in an option we could set for players who demand that both planes go down when one collides. It would be interesting to see how fast those players would come to the board screaming how they avoided the collision yet was blown up anyway.
:aok
-
I wish HiTech would code in an option we could set for players who demand that both planes go down when one collides. It would be interesting to see how fast those players would come to the board screaming how they avoided the collision yet was blown up anyway.
I think it's worththe experiment.
$5 on it making many more players cautious/"timid" to engage in A2A combat unless they have the definitive advantage of controlling the first merge(s). :devil (my reasoning being co-alt first merges in the MA are already on the rare-ish side due to no shortage of players agressively HOing.)
-
I wish HiTech would code in an option we could set for players who demand that both planes go down when one collides. It would be interesting to see how fast those players would come to the board screaming how they avoided the collision yet was blown up anyway.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Make it so!!
:salute
-
Because the other object did not collide, on that players computer. Again, you really want your plane to blow up when you make the effort to avoid the collision, but the other guy did not? You want to give the other guy that kind of power over you?
The "system" that recognizes an intersection with another object, is YOUR computer. You did not avoid the collision. If the other player flies off, it is because he did avoid the collision, on HIS computer.
In an HO, you may see you plane hitting his, but on his computer he was still 500 yards out when you blew up.
Bottomline is this; Any other solution to the 'collision' model will end up giving power to the other player, over you. You want grief? That is exactly what you will get. Right now, if YOU avoid the collision, YOU will not take damage. Period.
I'm not trying to be difficult, honest I'm not. It just doesn't make sense to me that AH can't detect an object as large as an airplane hit another object but it can detect something as small as a bullet hitting the same object. Both cause damage and receive damage (i.e. round ricochet) . I understand one computer reads it and the other doesn't but the server does, right? It reads my bullet hitting what I'm seeing, not something 500yds in a different direction.
It's probably something that couldn't be solved without totally rebuilding the game from scratch, but it is a very confusing and annoying effect as is. As far as turning it into a mutual thing, I'd have no problems as long as both went down. Yeah, it would stink to be rammed out of the air, but that's happening to me already.
I hush up now, just my 2 cents. :cheers:
-
I'm not trying to be difficult, honest I'm not. It just doesn't make sense to me that AH can't detect an object as large as an airplane hit another object
It can and it does. Always. Run into a large object, you will get damage.
What you are asking for is applying collision damage to you when you are NOT hit by an airplane at all.
-
I'm not trying to be difficult, honest I'm not. It just doesn't make sense to me that AH can't detect an object as large as an airplane hit another object but it can detect something as small as a bullet hitting the same object. Both cause damage and receive damage (i.e. round ricochet) . I understand one computer reads it and the other doesn't but the server does, right? It reads my bullet hitting what I'm seeing, not something 500yds in a different direction.
It's probably something that couldn't be solved without totally rebuilding the game from scratch, but it is a very confusing and annoying effect as is. As far as turning it into a mutual thing, I'd have no problems as long as both went down. Yeah, it would stink to be rammed out of the air, but that's happening to me already.
I hush up now, just my 2 cents. :cheers:
What your having trouble with is picturing two realities that are happening at the same time. Due to lag between the two computers you can't have it the same at the same time. Bullets happen on your screen just like the collisions do. So this is one reality, and the one you are playing. The same happens on the other guys computer and is the second reality. Bullet counts are tallied from each front end (each computer) because that is the game. You are maneuvering to put bullets in the other guy. Even if your lag is high you hits count. Haven't you ever been fighting a guy and hear rounds hit you, or you get shot out of the sky and you think to yourself "how did that guy shoot me??? He had no shot on me???" That's the lag. The other guy saw a shot on his computer and hit.
They COULD do the same with collisions but they DON'T. The reason is because the lag would put planes in positions that one computer doesn't have a collision but the plane would all of a sudden loose a wing. Now, I don't mind a guy now and then getting hits on me when I think I rolled at the right time because in most cases it takes more than a few, but if my wings started dropping off when I wasn't even close to a guy it would get pretty frustrating pretty quick.
-
They COULD do the same with collisions but they DON'T. The reason is because the lag would put planes in positions that one computer doesn't have a collision but the plane would all of a sudden loose a wing. Now, I don't mind a guy now and then getting hits on me when I think I rolled at the right time because in most cases it takes more than a few, but if my wings started dropping off when I wasn't even close to a guy it would get pretty frustrating pretty quick.
If anyone remembers MSN's "the zone" they use a system just like this! On some nights when lag was bad you could collide with a player before you were in guns range.
Talk about frustrating colliding with a player 200 yds infront of you!
As Skuzzy said I'd like to see HTC implement this for just 1 week,then I'd laugh my butt off at all those whining for it to change to how it is now.
:salute
-
Reading these threads I notice that players, on both sides of the collision modeling argument, seem to generally underestimate the divergence that can happen between the two computers. 50ft is tossed out pretty frequently, but I suspect it is on the low end of the most common divergence.
-
Reading these threads I notice that players, on both sides of the collision modeling argument, seem to generally underestimate the divergence that can happen between the two computers. 50ft is tossed out pretty frequently, but I suspect it is on the low end of the most common divergence.
Foe me it's never been an exact distance. Just a number most can visualize easily as being a noticeble distance away.
Wiley.
-
The guys with the big canons seem to like the HO since the canons can win often before a collision shows on their plane.
-
To help visualising things, here an actual online collision (the one from the animation above) and how different the "two realites" really are:
Pony trying to ram a P-47. This is how the collision looked in the Pony player's world:
(http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/2236/rammyfeve9.jpg)
And this is exact the same moment of 'collision', as it happened in the Jug player's world:
(http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/9027/ramotherfeen9.jpg)
(note the "Lusche has collided with you" system message.
As you can see, there never was a collision on the P-47's screen. So "damage both" would in fact mean you would take damage from collisions that never happened on your screen at all. Imagine sucessfully dodging a collision and still getting ther message...
-
Guys, I've read all this and became terrified.
We have plenty of games out there in which hit detection is done on client side. And they are flooded with cheaters. See infamous battlefield 3.
I hope any encryption/verification/etc involved in game protocol. Is it?
-
Foe me it's never been an exact distance. Just a number most can visualize easily as being a noticeble distance away.
Wiley.
Of course it isn't. The distance is based on the time it takes for data from one computer to reach the other, routing through Texas, and on the speed differential of the participants. Since those aren't constants the distance will also not be a constant. That is why you can't reliably fly through somebody on the their computer by flying in front of them on yours. You're probably more likely to fly right in front of their guns at a "can't miss" range than collide with them.
-
Of course it isn't. The distance is based on the time it takes for data from one computer to reach the other, routing through Texas, and on the speed differential of the participants. Since those aren't constants the distance will also not be a constant. That is why you can't reliably fly through somebody on the their computer by flying in front of them on yours. You're probably more likely to fly right in front of their guns at a "can't miss" range than collide with them.
Yep. And that is why I don't worry much about intentional rammers. I welcome you flying in front of my plane to try to get me to collide.
Wiley.
-
Been around and around on this topic.
Something that still bothers me about it is the situation where the guy flying the bombers gets the collision and takes the damage because that is what his client saw and the enemy plane did not take any damage because evidently it is not what was seen on his end. I just don't see a way for the bomber formation to do anything about it, and thus (sorry to differ Skuzzy) but I am not in complete control over whether I collide with the enemy plane. This happens both flying straight and level and almost always against a jug.
What is the bomber formation to do? Often happens when I'm short on ammo and with multiple attackers. My time lately has been limited, but this is also one reason I haven't flown bombers in weeks. It happens to me a lot.
:salute
-
I think part of the equation is the smoothing code. The way I understand it, the code tries to anticipate the flight paths of other planes around you, so they don't jump all over the place. When the other players change course, the code makes adjustments accordingly. If a plane is going very fast (like in a dive on your bombers), and then pulls out in time (on his end), it takes the smoothing code some amount of time to adjust his path. Sometimes the resulting lag is great enough that the course change info doesn't get to you game engine in time and your games sees a collision that the other guy does not.
Perhaps what is needed is an adjustment in the smoothing code to tighten up the timings.
-
What is the bomber formation to do?
Be a man and fly a fighter plane :airplane:
-
Been around and around on this topic.
Something that still bothers me about it is the situation where the guy flying the bombers gets the collision and takes the damage because that is what his client saw and the enemy plane did not take any damage because evidently it is not what was seen on his end. I just don't see a way for the bomber formation to do anything about it, and thus (sorry to differ Skuzzy) but I am not in complete control over whether I collide with the enemy plane. This happens both flying straight and level and almost always against a jug.
What is the bomber formation to do? Often happens when I'm short on ammo and with multiple attackers. My time lately has been limited, but this is also one reason I haven't flown bombers in weeks. It happens to me a lot.
:salute
It is a problem, but there isn't anything that can really be done about it. All of the solutions to that problem introduce more severe problems elsewhere.
If both need computers need to detect the collision for the collision to count then collisions become very random feeling and you can usually just dive through your target blazing away from point blank. This would be particularly hard on bombers.
If there aren't collisions then it becomes safe to fly through your target guns blazing from any angle. Once again bombers suffer the worst consequences of this.
-
... almost always against a jug.
This may be a result of the jug's fantastic dive, the higher speed differential means the displacement between the 2 FEs is larger for the same amount of lag.
-
Been around and around on this topic.
Something that still bothers me about it is the situation where the guy flying the bombers gets the collision and takes the damage because that is what his client saw and the enemy plane did not take any damage because evidently it is not what was seen on his end. I just don't see a way for the bomber formation to do anything about it, and thus (sorry to differ Skuzzy) but I am not in complete control over whether I collide with the enemy plane. This happens both flying straight and level and almost always against a jug.
What is the bomber formation to do? Often happens when I'm short on ammo and with multiple attackers. My time lately has been limited, but this is also one reason I haven't flown bombers in weeks. It happens to me a lot.
:salute
I have a had time getting people attack my bombers where and how are you flying?
-
It can and it does. Always. Run into a large object, you will get damage.
What you are asking for is applying collision damage to you when you are NOT hit by an airplane at all.
No, what I am asking for is equal damage when the system records a collision because at some point the server sees two flight paths cross. If they cross, both get damaged. If they don't everybody flies away happy. If the system can track a bullet it can track an airplane. Saying it can't follow the same procedure as a bullet is just giving up on solving the problem because "it's too hard to fix".
-
No, what I am asking for is equal damage when the system records a collision because at some point the server sees two flight paths cross. If they cross, both get damaged. If they don't everybody flies away happy. If the system can track a bullet it can track an airplane. Saying it can't follow the same procedure as a bullet is just giving up on solving the problem because "it's too hard to fix".
You clearly still do not understand.
The server sees nothing. Your computer's game engine sees something (whether it's a collsion or a bullet hit) and relays that info to the main server, which then trasmits that info to all other players in the area. The closer the players are to each other, the faster and more data is sent/recieved. Because of the nature of the Internet and laws of Physics, your game engine see a slightly different "reality" than the other players in the area.
-
No, what I am asking for is equal damage when the system records a collision because at some point the server sees two flight paths cross. If they cross, both get damaged.
There are not two flight paths, there are four.
See my pictures above, these are the two realities AH has to cope with. They will always be disparate. And there is no additional "third one" on the server.
You will always have situations, in which there is a collision happening on one players front end while not on the other one's. And there are in theory three ways to handle it:
- Both get damaged all the time. Which means you will get a lot of "collisions" when you have clearly avoided the enemy plane, sometimes even by hundred yards or more.
- No one gets damaged unless both FE's see a collision. That would introduce an almost random feature, with US players getting more likely to end up in a collision than more distant ones
- What you see is what you get. If there's a collision on your screen, you take damage. If there's a collision on your enemy's screen, he takes damage.
-
Here is what everyone in this thread needed to read before replying....
http://netaces.org/lag/lag.htm
Well most of the ppl in this thread needed too read this........
-
I've seen your picture and understand the "4 realities". But you have to agree that at some point the server either does or does not record flight paths crossing. A collision should not occur unless the server (which sees bullets hit a target in 4 realities) sees two flight paths cross (in 4 realities).
If you can track a bullet's flight path to a moving target and record a hit or miss, you can track something 1,000 times larger moving 10 times slower. If you can follow a peanut, you can follow an elephant being hit with the peanut.
-
I've seen your picture and understand the "4 realities". But you have to agree that at some point the server either does or does not record flight paths crossing. A collision should not occur unless the server (which sees bullets hit a target in 4 realities) sees two flight paths cross (in 4 realities).
If you can track a bullet's flight path to a moving target and record a hit or miss, you can track something 1,000 times larger moving 10 times slower. If you can follow a peanut, you can follow an elephant being hit with the peanut.
See my previous post. The server sees nothing. It merely transmits what everyone's game running on their computers sees and tells everyone else that information. You are playing a client-based game that is hosted on (coordinated by) a central server. The game is not running on the server, and the server is not a referee to interpret anything.
If my assertion is wrong, then someone from HTC will correct me.
-
I've seen your picture and understand the "4 realities". But you have to agree that at some point the server either does or does not record flight paths crossing. A collision should not occur unless the server (which sees bullets hit a target in 4 realities) sees two flight paths cross (in 4 realities).
Which would have the net effect of turning collisions 'off' 90% of the time. If both had to collide for a collision to register, it would not happen in most circumstances. In my opinion, collisions off would be an extraordinarily bad step for the game, as it would result in even more 'point pipper at guy and go in guns blazing' type gameplay because collisions would be exceedingly rare.
Wiley.
-
I understand "the system" does not see a collision (in 4 realities). What I'm saying is "the system" is broken and needs to be addressed. It's a huge problem.
-
1. - Both get damaged all the time. Which means you will get a lot of "collisions" when you have clearly avoided the enemy plane, sometimes even by hundred yards or more.
2. - No one gets damaged unless both FE's see a collision. That would introduce an almost random feature, with US players getting more likely to end up in a collision than more distant ones
3. - What you see is what you get. If there's a collision on your screen, you take damage. If there's a collision on your enemy's screen, he takes damage.
These are the 3 options, pick one ...
-
RTHolmes nailed it. Except, that number 2 would result in virtually no collisions at all, even if a plane flies through another one.
Even if the servers do all the flying for the client, it does not solve the time displacement issue.
-
I understand "the system" does not see a collision (in 4 realities). What I'm saying is "the system" is broken and needs to be addressed. It's a huge problem.
You don't seem to understand. Really, you don't.
You seem to think that if there is a collision on one system, there will inevitably be a collision on the other system at a slight delay and currently only the first system takes damage. This is wrong.
The paths don't matter, all that matters is the points on the paths that are the planes and the time delay means that only rarely do collisions happen on both systems (when they do both player's planes take damage) because of this. Imagine an intersection with two alternate realities. In one Bob enters the intersection at 12:34:01 at 75 mph and Jane enters the intersection, crossing Bob's path, also at 12:34:01 at 75mph and in that reality they collide. In the other Bob was slightly slower accelerating from the last red light and enters the intersection at 12:34:03 at 75 mph and Jane still enters the intersection, crossing Bob's path, at 12:34:01 at 75mph and in this reality Jane passes just in front of Bob, no collision. The fact that the paths in both realities were the same doesn't matter at all.
Now, to add complication, the paths won't be exactly the same either...
-
RTHolmes nailed it.
I'd like to take credit but I actually just quoted Snail's post above ;)
-
I can understand this question being brought up from time to time by a newb. But do we really need to re-hash this subject ad nauseum every couple of months amongst the vets? Come on guys! Look--it is what it is. Until somebody invents a perfect-global-real-time-internet, the whole both planes getting damage thing just ain't gonna happen. I understand the system and I also understand something else that ties it all together. That is my connection to the game servers is different from a guy playing in Australia's is and is different again from a guy's in Europe. Currently nothing's gonna change that fact. Simple as that. It's not like this started last week. Deal with it already for dryin out loud! :rolleyes:
-
I have a had time getting people attack my bombers where and how are you flying?
The most common situation where this happens is over Bish strats. The Jugs get numerous passes on me as the .50's don't take down a drone on a single slash, and thus numerous opportunities to collide.
Usually what happens is the jug doesn't dive steep enough to where he has angle to get the shot and pull away to miss colliding with me (from my viewpoint.) I understand that what he's seeing is that he does have room to slash - fire/pull-out in time to miss, but I get the damage from his collision. So now I've got damage from his guns and damage from him colliding into me and he has none. All this because in this instance AH says that I collided with him. Occasionally the miscalculation on the slash will result in two collisions and damage to both of us, it just usually isn't that case. I guess my argument would be, why am I getting damage from these instances? There is absolutely nothing I can do to avoid it, that is if I can't shoot him down first.
I understand it's the tech/lag that and also the fact of the virtual speed at which AH objects approach each other is responsible for this and don't know what to do about it. I haven't thought this one through and there could be a double edge to it, but maybe remove damage to bombers when a collision happens with a fighter at the rear of the plane?
:salute
-
bear in mind that your bombers have the advantage of considerably higher speed than historically, so the jug will get fewer passes on you ... in this instance what the game takes away with one hand, it gives back with the other.
-
Come on guys! Look--it is what it is. Until somebody invents a perfect-global-real-time-internet, the whole both planes getting damage thing just ain't gonna happen. I understand the system and I also understand something else that ties it all together. That is my connection to the game servers is different from a guy playing in Australia's is and is different again from a guy's in Europe. Currently nothing's gonna change that fact. Simple as that.
a good argument for increased funding in theoretical physics :D
-
a good argument for increased funding in theoretical physics :D
I have little doubt there's probably multiple teams of geeks working on that right now but it's probably not gonna get done in time for the next patch.
-
bear in mind that your bombers have the advantage of considerably higher speed than historically, so the jug will get fewer passes on you ... in this instance what the game takes away with one hand, it gives back with the other.
So you are saying bomber speed is not realistic?
You did read that this happens over strats right?
I've had one player up 4 times to come back for me, and several up 2 to 3 times to come back and finish me off.
My bombers have no advantage whatsoever when deep inside enemy territory. Yes, I know I put myself there.
I could bomb and bail like some others, maybe this is part of why they do it?
-
well I dont know what settings you were using, but if its above long range auto-lean settings (eg. ~150mph IAS in B17s) like almost all AH buff pilots use, then yes, they are faster than historical speeds.
-
I seem to recall that B-17s cruised at 180-200mph and those are the speeds they used on missions into Germany. Even in combat the bombers kept at a cruise setting.
In AH a B-17 does almost 300mph for most of its mission.
Hence, faster than historic speeds.
-
So you are saying bomber speed is not realistic?
You did read that this happens over strats right?
I've had one player up 4 times to come back for me, and several up 2 to 3 times to come back and finish me off.
My bombers have no advantage whatsoever when deep inside enemy territory. Yes, I know I put myself there.
I could mb and bail like some others, maybe this is part of why they do it?
3 or 4 times they get back up for you? What are you doing, flying at 5k? If your not at 20k your asking to get hammered. Also is their angle is not steep, they are much easier to shoot down
-
There are several Bish that are great at defending their strats, and they are who I'm referring to. Depending on the map, I can expect to see them one sector at least ahead of the strats sector, and I usually make 2-3 passes. The one guy was 4 sorties against me, and that was only once. More than once, I've had the feeling I was just being softened up, for a 3 kill sortie. But there have been numerous times were I encountered the same player 2 times more often than not, and 3 times was not uncommon. I've had the same player up at a base several sectors away, toward my country, to catch me returning, so I'm including those occasions here.
But really the point is, what is a bomber pilot to do to avoid fighters colliding with him from the 6oclock perspective? They do not get the damage if it's only on my end, but I certainly do, and I can't think of any way to avoid that given the way things are currently modeled.
:salute
-
I would suggest avoiding the plane, or shoot it down. Either way solves the problem.
-
There are several Bish that are great at defending their strats, and they are who I'm referring to. Depending on the map, I can expect to see them one sector at least ahead of the strats sector, and I usually make 2-3 passes. The one guy was 4 sorties against me, and that was only once. More than once, I've had the feeling I was just being softened up, for a 3 kill sortie. But there have been numerous times were I encountered the same player 2 times more often than not, and 3 times was not uncommon. I've had the same player up at a base several sectors away, toward my country, to catch me returning, so I'm including those occasions here.
But really the point is, what is a bomber pilot to do to avoid fighters colliding with him from the 6oclock perspective? They do not get the damage if it's only on my end, but I certainly do, and I can't think of any way to avoid that given the way things are currently modeled.
:salute
The collisions, if/when they happen, is definitely accidental on my behalf. I do not ram intentionally. Takes way to long to get alt just to intentionally ram buffs. :bhead Especially since I only use prop driven planes.
Have on some occasions had frame stutter or lag that causes me to close faster without me seeing it. I'll start a dive or climb at 1.5k and the gunner opens up, frames stutter, things get slowed down and where I think I'm clearing past, frame rate goes back up and I get message of collision, have no wing(s) or damaged engine and cannot continue attack. This is how it is on my screen and my perspective.
Now I've also come up against some buff pilots that will chop throttle or cut off engines and make climbs or dives that puts them quickly into my flight path which usually causes a collision. Catastrophic more for me usually and they can jump to a drone if they take damage also, and continue on. Mostly when they are flying Lancasters lol. Tough birds!
Now I'm not sure if I'm the person you're referring to, but I will re-up to go after the same Bombers if I'm downed. :devil Especially if protecting strats. It's not like there is a big red cross on them and dropping Humanitarian Relief supplies. lol
Salute to the Bomber guy's!
-
If memory serves the collision model was even more hilarious in Air Warrior.
Firstly, there was none. You could not collide with an opponent. This made air combat a bit...different.
Secondly, since nobody worried about colliding, the Head to head modeling tossed out most of the bullets fired as
anything else would just about guarantee both planes would get shot down.
I prefer the current modeling. Its not entirely fair, but the alternatives suck.
-
I would suggest avoiding the plane, or shoot it down. Either way solves the problem.
Because jinking a flight of Lanks is as easy as jinking a 190.... :joystick:
-
Last FSO, I was in a Zero climbing around stall speed and an F4F-4 smashed into me from behind... no way I could avoid that... at least he exploded, but he took my wing off too.
In this case, there was no way I could avoid the collision as I couldn't maneuver and he was much faster... but I am not upset really... it sucks to have my FSO frame ended like that, but collisions happened, and when they did both planes took damage...
-
Last FSO, I was in a Zero climbing around stall speed and an F4F-4 smashed into me from behind... no way I could avoid that... at least he exploded, but he took my wing off too.
In this case, there was no way I could avoid the collision as I couldn't maneuver and he was much faster... but I am not upset really... it sucks to have my FSO frame ended like that, but collisions happened, and when they did both planes took damage...
Stop looking at it like a traffic collision. There is no "at fault". There is only yes or no.
-
In this case, there was no way I could avoid the collision as I couldn't maneuver and he was much faster... but I am not upset really... it sucks to have my FSO frame ended like that, but collisions happened, and when they did both planes took damage...
Well keep in mind nobody ever said it was impossible for both planes to be damaged, just not likely due to a lot of factors. If your front end sees a collision you take damage. If the other guy's does he takes damage. In the case you described I'd guess your relative speeds were slow and your crossing angle was minimal (as he was overtaking you from behind and not passing from the front quarter or side where your relative speeds would be much greater) and it might have been because of that, both front ends saw a collision and therefore you both took damage. Remember we're talking like milliseconds here so if you were close enough for long enough then prolly both sides saw the collision. Best sense I can make of that.
Speaking of FSO......I'm off. :salute
-
The collisions, if/when they happen, is definitely accidental on my behalf. I do not ram intentionally. Takes way to long to get alt just to intentionally ram buffs. :bhead Especially since I only use prop driven planes.
Have on some occasions had frame stutter or lag that causes me to close faster without me seeing it. I'll start a dive or climb at 1.5k and the gunner opens up, frames stutter, things get slowed down and where I think I'm clearing past, frame rate goes back up and I get message of collision, have no wing(s) or damaged engine and cannot continue attack. This is how it is on my screen and my perspective.
Now I've also come up against some buff pilots that will chop throttle or cut off engines and make climbs or dives that puts them quickly into my flight path which usually causes a collision. Catastrophic more for me usually and they can jump to a drone if they take damage also, and continue on. Mostly when they are flying Lancasters lol. Tough birds!
Now I'm not sure if I'm the person you're referring to, but I will re-up to go after the same Bombers if I'm downed. :devil Especially if protecting strats. It's not like there is a big red cross on them and dropping Humanitarian Relief supplies. lol
Salute to the Bomber guy's!
Actually, while I recall seeing you up more than once after me, I don't recall any collisions, not to say it didn't happen. I do recall one time, K-4 vs. KI-67's where you got me and came back, although idk if i got you or just oiled. I'm not sure if you caught me on the second sortie, those Betty's are fast.
Yes, you are one of the Bish that does a fine job of defending your strats.
:salute