Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GScholz on May 16, 2013, 10:44:49 AM
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From the media and Discovery programs like "Whale Wars", depicting Paul Watson and his inept crew of vegans, I get the impression that many Americans are against commercial whaling. Is this a fact, or just skewed media influence?
Are you guys for, against or indifferent to whale hunting for food?
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I'm for it. Except for Humpbacks. We may need them to talk to an alien space ship someday.
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people still eat whales? it's the 21st century and i have yet to see a package of whale meat in the grocery store...
i don't see any use for whale hunting...unless the weapon of choice is a camera. it's like hunting rhino and elephant, a lot of money spent wasting time and bullets. amazing that so many humans spend their lives trying to stay in touch with their stoneage mentality...
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^^^^^ This.
Just another outdated tradition that needs to be forgotten. I understand the reasoning. I mean, What could be more fun than standing in the sea and hacking defenswlwss animals to death with a knife on a stick? :bhead
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people still eat whales? it's the 21st century and i have yet to see a package of whale meat in the grocery store...
i don't see any use for whale hunting...unless the weapon of choice is a camera. it's like hunting rhino and elephant, a lot of money spent wasting time and bullets. amazing that so many humans spend their lives trying to stay in touch with their stoneage mentality...
^^^
I agree.
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Commercial whaling is a bit different than that Danny. Today we use cannon with explosive shells that kill the animal instantly. It is then winched aboard a factory ship which turns it into food that is sold in the supermarket alongside beef products from other animals. It is a regulated industry were the number of whales that can be harvested is determined by state employed scientists.
(http://divergirl.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/hvalfangst.jpg)
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Commercial whaling is a bit different than that Danny. Today we use cannon with explosive shells that kill the animal instantly. It is then winched aboard a factory ship which turns it into food that is sold in the supermarket alongside beef products from other animals. It is a regulated industry were the number of whales that can be harvested is determined by state employed scientists.
(http://divergirl.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/hvalfangst.jpg)
lol, i can't resist...what "other animal" can you get beef from?
i have never had the opportunity to eat whale meat, which is a bit odd for me considering the large variety of odd things i have eaten. i can however say that i have absolutely zero inclination to do so. i'm not starving, and if i was, there is a lot of other stuff that i could acquire much easier than a whale. the days of whales being a necessary commodity are long gone. hell, with the exception of a small number of indigenous people in various regions of the planet who relied on whales as a food source, they have never been a necessary commodity in so called civilized nations.
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Well, we call it whale beef, ox/cow beef, elk beef, deer beef. Maybe you guys just call it meat. In my country whale meat is available in just about any grocery store and usually cheaper than meat from cows. Gyrene, I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean by "a necessary commodity in so called civilized nations"? Are you promoting veganism? If not, then how can anyone justify killing one animal for food, but not another? Whales are just big sea-cows after all.
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If the whale is used for all it's worth, fat rendered for fuel, meat for for food, etc. I have no problem with it. Hunting rhino and elephant for ivory or sex toys only bothers me.
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By law the entire animal must be used for something. We don't use the blubber locally, so it is exported to Japan where they use it in food production.
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I think the majority of average Americans are probably against it, simply because whale meat isn't popular and it's been demonized pretty thoroughly in the media.
Personally, like was said above, as long as the animal is used, I have zero issue with it. Conservation of the species is the only limiting factor, imo. Being the most sophisticated species on the planet doesn't mean we shouldn't use resources for our own good, but it does mean we should be smart enough to not decimate the resource itself.
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Well, we call it whale beef, ox/cow beef, elk beef, deer beef. Maybe you guys just call it meat. In my country whale meat is available in just about any grocery store and usually cheaper than meat from cows. Gyrene, I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean by "a necessary commodity in so called civilized nations"? Are you promoting veganism? If not, then how can anyone justify killing one animal for food, but not another? Whales are just big sea-cows after all.
what i mean by "necessary commodity in so called civilized nations" is that in civilized nations, the people are supposedly educated enough to learn how to create sustainable food sources. there are sources of food that are sustainable (not talking just vegetation either, vegans are irritating), and whales are not one of those sources. there are places on the planet where people do rely on the sea for food and whales are part of their diet but not on the scale of having floating processing plants harvesting them for sale at retail markets. the big difference between sheep, pigs, goats or cows is, whales aren't bred and raised as a source of food. if someone started raising whale herds the same way people raise domestic livestock, or perhaps so much as aquatic farmers are raising some species of fish, then i wouldn't object to farm raised whales being used as food.
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Norway only hunts minke whale; a species which is abundant in our seas. There are an estimated half-a-million of them, and this year's quota is for a total of 1286 animals. We shepherd this resource responsibly, just like we do with our fisheries. "Civilized" nations still fish don't they?
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Norway only hunts minke whale; a species which is abundant in our seas. There are an estimated half-a-million of them, and this year's quota is for a total of 1286 animals. We shepherd this resource responsibly, just like we do with our fisheries. "Civilized" nations still fish don't they?
so you think it's "responsible" to annually kill nearly 1300 specimens of a species that has a limited population in which the females only produce 1 offspring every 2 years? the number of sheep in Norway is abundant, 500,000 whales is not an "abundant" population. and what those whaling ships do is not "hunting", they are floating processing plants.
these people hunt whales...but they don't package the meat for sale in the store, everyone gets some.
(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/10/17/us/WHALE-1/WHALE-1-articleLarge.jpg)
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While I find this discussion interesting I can't help but wonder about the whalers Danny mentioned in his post. He says they are "standing in the sea." Who do they think they are, Jesus?
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Gyrenere, are you also against commercial fishing?
500,000 whales is really "abundant" for such a large animal. The minke whale population is so large that they are having trouble finding enough food. There are ongoing discussions in scientific circles whether the minke whale population should be culled to create a better/more healthy stock. Harvesting one in 500 animals each year is very sustainable.
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Gyrenere, are you also against commercial fishing?
yes i am. especially when it's uncontrolled to the point of endangering species or wiping them out. for some species it's not an issue due to their reproductive numbers. but check history and it will show where like nearly everything we humans have done throughout history, commercial fishing has brought many species of fish to the brink of extinction.
500,000 whales is really "abundant" for such a large animal. The minke whale population is so large that they are having trouble finding enough food. There are ongoing discussions in scientific circles whether the minke whale population should be culled to create a better/more healthy stock. Harvesting one in 500 animals each year is very sustainable.
that may be "abundant" in your neck of the ocean, but not elsewhere. and we all know the main reason they are having trouble finding enough food is because of commercial fishing.
i wouldn't be against whale hunting, or commercial fishing if it wasn't for the fact that other countries (including the u.s.) have proven they don't care whether they destroy a species as long as there is a profit to be made while they exist.
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That's one of the reasons Norway didn't enter the EU. We wanted stricter regulation of fisheries than what the EU was willing to accept. Whether the animals are "free grazing" or herded in enclosed areas cannot be much of an issue as long as the resource is harvested responsibly? Minke whale is hardly an endangered species, it has never been an endangered species, and the population is in fact increasing (which is why we're considering culling).
Btw. we've been doing this for more than 1,200 years now. As whale-shepherds we're as good as the Irish are with sheep. ;)
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yes i am. especially when it's uncontrolled to the point of endangering species or wiping them out. for some species it's not an issue due to their reproductive numbers. but check history and it will show where like nearly everything we humans have done throughout history, commercial fishing has brought many species of fish to the brink of extinction.
that may be "abundant" in your neck of the ocean, but not elsewhere. and we all know the main reason they are having trouble finding enough food is because of commercial fishing.
i wouldn't be against whale hunting, or commercial fishing if it wasn't for the fact that other countries (including the u.s.) have proven they don't care whether they destroy a species as long as there is a profit to be made while they exist.
Has there been a sudden drop in the plankton population?
Sponge Bob making too many Crabby Patties these days?
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If the whale is used for all it's worth, fat rendered for fuel, meat for for food, etc. I have no problem with it. Hunting rhino and elephant for ivory or sex toys only bothers me.
I have a whale foreskin that I got as a gift.
I can pull it out of my pocket, give it a shake and use it for a duffel bag...
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Commercial whaling is a bit different than that Danny. Today we use cannon with explosive shells that kill the animal instantly. It is then winched aboard a factory ship which turns it into food that is sold in the supermarket alongside beef products from other animals. It is a regulated industry were the number of whales that can be harvested is determined by state employed scientists.
(http://divergirl.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/hvalfangst.jpg)
Really? So the annual "festival" on Faroe slaughtering hundreds of pilot whales is humane and instant slaughter? Utter crap. Its brutality for the sake of it disguised as tradition. Its no different from fox hunting, badger baiting, or dog/cock fighting!
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Has there been a sudden drop in the plankton population?
Sponge Bob making too many Crabby Patties these days?
well, considering the makeup of plankton and the general decline of some species included in the term plankton, yes...but minke whales don't feed exclusively on plankton.
In the Northeast Pacific, minke whales feed on variety of small schooling fish such as herring, capelin and sandlance in addition to a variety of zooplankton. In general, they feed on whatever is locally abundant at the time. In the Southern Hemisphere krill forms a major part of the minke whale diet.
Minke whales are known for eating a variety of small fish, krill, copepods, cod, herring, capelin, and pollock among other small sea creatures.
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Really? So the annual "festival" on Faroe slaughtering hundreds of pilot whales is humane and instant slaughter? Utter crap. Its brutality for the sake of it disguised as tradition. Its no different from fox hunting, badger baiting, or dog/cock fighting!
Danny, that's a local ritualistic tradition, not commercial whaling. Note that the title of this thread and the question I asked is about commercial whaling.
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well, considering the makeup of plankton and the general decline of some species included in the term plankton, yes...but minke whales don't feed exclusively on plankton.
It was a jest.
They are baleen whales. Basically a swimming kitty litter scooper with a diet just about the same as Blue whales.
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The problem with the whaling the OP is on about is that it is carried out under the premise of scientific research by the Japanese in a supposedly marine protected area.
The sea Shepard guys are actually stupid and do more to complicate things than fix things...yes they bring the subject to light but they do so in a way that goes against rules, much like the Japanese whalers make rules to do their thing...the sea Shepard make rules for themselves also...but both argue the actual rules when it suits their case....
The biggest thing it brings to light is the no nuts Govt. (sorry if this breaks a rule) NZ has...not no nuts...just money focused....
Where scholz is from is a totally different thing.... and totally different whales .... they are as he says...a sea cow
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It was a jest.
They are baleen whales. Basically a swimming kitty litter scooper with a diet just about the same as Blue whales.
lol, ok but you forgot the :neener:
kitty litter scooper <snicker> :rofl
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I think that Shark finning is a much larger problem than whaling right now. There is absolutely no nutritional value in a shark fin, and to boot they usually have a lot of harmful other things contained in them, such as mercury etc. It's just a silly cultural thing to eat it, and hundreds of millions of sharks are killed for absolutely nothing, which is really messing up the food chain apparently. I'd be all for hunting and eating whales if it is properly controlled as it is say with the cattle we eat by the millions, when compared to the sharks which aren't used at all other than for the fins, which again, have no value being consumed by humans other than cultural/religious/etc reasons.
At least the Japanese/Norwegians/whoever that still hunt whales are using the product of the hunts for commercial sale and food - the countries that do all the shark finning can't even say that.
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Gyrene, there are not many species of fish that minke whale compete with humans for. Perhaps sardines and a few small codfish.
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Heck if they use what they kill and its regulated which it is I dont care just like us hunting any other animal. I know I use a lot less of a deer then Im sure these guys do with whales.
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I think if its part of your culture then by all means do it. That said, im sure that your country does more to protect these animals than most, being that you want that part of your culture to last a long time. Im fairly certain, that the permits and such required to harvest these animals is directly reinvested into the resource.
I know that here in the US, any item sold that has to do with hunting or fishing ( guns, ammo, rods, lures, bait, clothing,boots,knives,calls,scents,boats.....you get the jist) is subject to the Pittman-Robertson Wildlife Restoration Act of 1937, which requires the manufacturer of said items to pay a special excise tax, that goes directly into Wildlife Restoration and Conservation. Sportsman, and Fisherman are the largest contributers (money wise) to wildlife restoration and conservation here in the states.
I have a whale foreskin that I got as a gift.
I can pull it out of my pocket, give it a shake and use it for a duffel bag...
And if he rubs it just right, it grows and he can use it to cover his Jeep :D
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against
whales are magnificent and amazing creatures who have survived on earth for a ridiculously long time until we came along and started to screw things up
whales have massive brains and are probably more intelligent than us :old:
what do they do with this great intelligence you ask? they don't f**k things up
it takes a special kind of stupid to ruin things in the all of the creative ways that humans have come up with
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Really? So the annual "festival" on Faroe slaughtering hundreds of pilot whales is humane and instant slaughter? Utter crap. Its brutality for the sake of it disguised as tradition. Its no different from fox hunting, badger baiting, or dog/cock fighting!
Cock fighting..... :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
I went to Wales once and got some Fudge :old:
I have not been back since :old:
To be honest i liked the North Korea thread, the Colonials jumping about at the drop of a hat is awesome, and yes nothing came of said incident is that not a surprise :rofl
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against
whales are magnificent and amazing creatures who have survived on earth for a ridiculously long time until we came along and started to screw things up
whales have massive brains and are probably more intelligent than us :old:
what do they do with this great intelligence you ask? they don't f**k things up
it takes a special kind of stupid to ruin things in the all of the creative ways that humans have come up with
Hippy!
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I dunno, lets take a few ships full of japanese cut off there arms and legs and throw them back in like they do with sharks, lets see how long that last's untill people starts having a problem with harvesting humans. :rock
Honestly all whaling ships should be sunken with all hands on deck. Survivers should be ran over multiple times with there own ships till little chunky parks come floating up. OR we should hit them with a cannon and kill them instantly, that makes everything all better.
Then we will sell them back to japan for food products. :rock
Fair is fair. Humans are in the multitudes of billions, so i see nothing wrong with using them as food products, after all they are all So abundant.
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Me?
Totally indifferent. I don't care about whales and its a survival of the fittest out here in the big scary world.
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Coombz, brain size alone doesn't mean anything. Brain size compared to body size is a better metric because the bigger the body the bigger the brain you need just to drive it. The intelligence varies greatly between whale species with the Orca being on a similar level with chimpanzees, while the bigger whales are on the level of dogs and cats. However I think that intelligence is an irrelevant factor as long as they don't approach sentient levels. After all, we don't judge human worth by how well a person does on an IQ test. Cows fear for their lives and care for their young just as much as say a dolphin.
I think BaDkaRmA158Th must be a vegan... :huh
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After all, we don't judge human worth by how well a person does on an IQ test.
I do :old:
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If it's controlled yes. My ancestors did. Itno qualms.
Now the shark finning is a rather frustrating topic and posses me off.
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Well... if the minke whale was intelligent you would think they would have relocated to safer waters by now ;)
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Me?
Totally indifferent. I don't care about whales and its a survival of the fittest out here in the big scary world.
the problem with that line of thinking is humans are not the fittest...take away our technology and weapons and a lot of humans will not survive.
GScholz, why do you automatically think someone is vegan when they talk about their dislike of unnecessary killing of animals? the way commercial fishing has operated worldwide, there is no such thing as a sustainable source...
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It was what he would like to do with humans... Typical militant veganism talk.
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i'm not vegan and i agree with him... :D
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You want to dismember and kill hunters?
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You want to dismember and kill hunters?
Sounds good to me, turnabout is fair play
also judging by the posts made by hunting fans on these forums, and with reference to the earlier comment on gauging a person's worth by their IQ, the human race really wouldn't be losing out much
just look up some posts by Rich42 and you'll see what I'm getting at
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You want to dismember and kill hunters? I'm not talking about sharks getting revenge here, but you killing other humans?
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Did I stutter?
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You don't find the idea just a little bit psychotic?
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what's psychotic about it, I thought hunting and killing animals is a fun hobby? :headscratch:
if you want to differentiate between a poor dumb animal with four legs versus a poor dumb animal with two that is your prerogative sir :salute
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You want to dismember and kill hunters?
what "hunters"? all i see are floating factories with one purpose...decimate the population of whatever species gets in their way. and those countries who do so without regard of the consequences to the rest of the planet deserve to be treated in the same manner...
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"Decimate the population of whatever species gets in their way". Like I said, we've been doing this for 1,200 years now, and we haven't "decimated" any of the species we harvest. We even got a navy out there protecting them from other, less rational, fishing fleets.
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I'm for it. Except for Humpbacks. We may need them to talk to an alien space ship someday.
:rofl :aok
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sorry but, the last 100 years of rampant commercial fishing and whaling did more damage to the populations of many fish and whale, than the previous 1100 years...what your country is doing now is just prolonging the inevitable where the whales are concerned. do some research, see how many of each sex and their ages get harvested each year, then do the math and see for yourself how sustainable the limited population is when the females only bare young once every 2 years.
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500,000 minke whale. Approx. 250,000 of them female, produce 125,000 offspring every year on average if they all get pregnant every two years. We harvest about 1,200 a year. The minke whale population is increasing, not declining, and it has been steadily increasing for at least one hundred years since we started counting them in 1904.
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I don't think you appreciate how enormous a population of 500,000 is for a single species of whale. For a 6-9 ton predatory animal, it is a huge population. By comparison there are about 20,000 lions in the world, and 3,500 great white sharks.
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I don't think you appreciate how enormous a population of 500,000 is for a single species of whale. For a 6-9 ton predatory animal, it is a huge population. By comparison there are about 20,000 lions in the world, and 3,500 great white sharks.
if it was 1mil plus i wouldn't object quite so much, especially considering the efforts your government makes. however, there is still one provision that cannot be argued, those whales are not a necessary food source.
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Just out of curiosity, what is a "necessary food source"
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Not a necessary food source... In a world where 15 million children die of hunger each year (41,000 per day), I would argue that there is no such thing as "not a necessary food source". When we eat whale, we eat less of something else.
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Just out of curiosity, what is a "necessary food source"
i'll try to make this as clear as possible...necessary as in required to sustain the population. in the case of the minke whales and the country of Norway, there is an abundance of other sources of meat that are far more sustainable because they breed faster. there is no need to harvest whales for food. at least they aren't like some other countries where everything that isn't commercially profitable gets dumped.
Not a necessary food source... In a world where 15 million children die of hunger each year (41,000 per day), I would argue that there is no such thing as "not a necessary food source". When we eat whale, we eat less of something else.
any of those starving children live in your country and rely on the whale meat to survive?
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As I said: The more whale we eat the less we eat of other food sources. Btw. why should we eat one species (say cow) over another (say whale) ?
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you have more choices than just cow...a lot more. and you didn't say how many starving children in your country are the recipients of the abundance of whale meat harvested annually...
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Coombz is so cute when he trolls. :)
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We import most of our food. I.e. we trade it from someone else. Our fisheries is our only major source of food. I don't know why you think fishing and whaling is not sustainable Gyrene, but we have lived off the sea since people first settled here in biblical times.
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We import most of our food. I.e. we trade it from someone else. Our fisheries is our only major source of food. I don't know why you think fishing and whaling is not sustainable Gyrene, but we have lived off the sea since people first settled here in biblical times.
well in biblical times there weren't several million of you to sustain and the people didn't fish from floating factories. something has got to give...and inevitably humans will overlook the long term consequences like we have throughout history.
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Not here. We only do sustainable harvesting.
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just out of curiosity, how much does a half kilo of whale meat cost versus say cow, or goat or sheep?
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Cheaper than cow or sheep, but more expensive than chicken. It depends; prices fluctuates a lot.
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A few weeks ago there was a sale at the local supermarket and my buddy Christian filled his freezer. Now he uses whale meat for just about everything, and started a video series about it on youtube. :lol
Title is "Christian has too much whale beef": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdL5fgGK_v0
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a freezer full? :O lol, well, he will enjoy a lot of great dishes that include whale meat then.
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Yes, and not much else for a while, lol.
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Coombz is so cute when he trolls. :)
I know right?
And look how mind numbingly boring this thread became when I stopped.
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During WWII and postwar rationing the brits had to eat plenty of whalemeat, and from what my grandparents and great aunts/uncles told me I wouldnt ever want to even try it.
Personally I look at whales like any other animal - if theres a genuine need, and the animal is killed quickly and with respect, and the harvesting doesnt have a lasting impact on the sustainable population of the species I dont have a problem with it.
The closer a species is to our own, the more instinctively repulsed I become by the idea, but if I was starving and there was no other food source I would have no hesitation eating primates. If I had to I'd eat the other, other white meat too.
As for the Japanese whaling industry, I understand that there is hardly any domestic demand and large amounts of the harvest are ultimately dumped. They appear to be fishing up to their quotas on some traditional/nationalistic principle that I cant work out, rather than fulfilling demand.
edit: one more point - whales are wild animals, so have a considerably higher quality of life than almost every farmed animal.
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I have an idea!!!! Give Africa 1 whaling ship and presto! Hunger ended!!!!!
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I don't know what whale meat your grandparents ate, but the meat we get around here is excellent. It tastes kinda like a cross between pork and beef with a fine texture, and it's oily/fatty like pork. It can be used for just about any dish where you would use beef, and it's healthier.
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Here's a North-American cooking a whale steak: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVIG7BJ0UQQ
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I have no idea what species it was but it was universally hated, but eaten because it was at least protein, and available.
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And it was probably canned, not fresh or frozen.
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I have no idea what species it was but it was universally hated, but eaten because it was at least protein, and available.
And it was probably canned, not fresh or frozen.
lol, i wonder if it was something like this...
(http://www.sogoodblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/dscn0617.jpg)
good with biscuits? :uhoh
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I only heard about whale "steaks" so not canned or dried, probably frozen?
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They didn't have the technology. Whaling ships back then boiled the meat on board and canned it.
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See... Whaling saved Britain and won the war! :D
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you have more choices than just cow...a lot more. and you didn't say how many starving children in your country are the recipients of the abundance of whale meat harvested annually...
Minke whales are not endangered in any way what so ever. Harvest rates are documented as well sustainable.
IIRC whale meat is nutritionally quite good. So why not eat them?
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Minke whales are not endangered in any way what so ever. Harvest rates are documented as well sustainable.
IIRC whale meat is nutritionally quite good. So why not eat them?
i see you missed the point, many now endangered whales weren't endangered 150 years ago...not sure how anyone can say that a population is sustainable when they don't know the exact population numbers.
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i see you missed the point, many now endangered whales weren't endangered 150 years ago...not sure how anyone can say that a population is sustainable when they don't know the exact population numbers.
Are minke's endangered?
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the claim is no they are not based on an estimated global population of 800,000...
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Gyrene, our fishery research department current have eight research vessels. Three of them are 4,000+ ton purpose built fish and whale surveillance vessels equipped with powerful underwater imaging sonars that can automatically count whole schools of fish, ROVs and other research gear. The International Whaling Commission have approved our methods of estimation with a 95% confidence level.
(http://afishblog.com/wp-admin/images/gosars.jpg)
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no offense Scholz, but organizations like the IWC are made up of people who can and will say whatever the money tells them to (like many other international organizations). if pope francis, the dalai lama and gandhi were the only members of the organization, i could probably be convinced that the IWC was beyond the influences of corrupt corporations...maybe.
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No offense Gyrene, but you sound like a conspiracy nut. The research is not done by any corporation, but by the Norwegian oceanic research department and the universities of Bergen and Tromsø.
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I think all that sonar emiting equipment is interfering with Whale mating rituals. :old:
How does the Male Whale find the Female Whale in the dark?............................. ................... Very Nice! :D
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No offense Gyrene, but you sound like a conspiracy nut. The research is not done by any corporation, but by the Norwegian oceanic research department and the universities of Bergen and Tromsø.
come on man, do you really think that i couldn't take 2 or 3 million dollars and get whatever population numbers i want in writing as "official"? that's not conspiracy theory, it's a fact of human greed. there aren't very many people who wouldn't shag a camel on live webcam for a couple of million dollars.
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come on man, do you really think that i couldn't take 2 or 3 million dollars and get whatever population numbers i want in writing as "official"? that's not conspiracy theory, it's a fact of human greed. there aren't very many people who wouldn't shag a camel on live webcam for a couple of million dollars.
I would do it for $20 USD if:
- I was the pitcher and not the catcher
- You paid me, up front
- The camel was wearing lipstick
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come on man, do you really think that i couldn't take 2 or 3 million dollars and get whatever population numbers i want in writing as "official"? that's not conspiracy theory, it's a fact of human greed. there aren't very many people who wouldn't shag a camel on live webcam for a couple of million dollars.
This research isn't done by one individual; it's scrutinized by the scientific peer-review system. What Norwegian "whaling corporation" can afford to spend 2 or 3 million Dollars on bribes? There is no "whaling corporation" in Norway. Each single boat is its own little company and the total first hand value of the whaling fleet's total yearly catch is no more than five million Dollars. There are only 18 whaling ships active in Norway, and they're not exclusive whaling vessels, but also harvest fish. We're not talking "big oil" here, but a small diversified industry of small companies, each with a handful of employees working on each boat. The chance of political or scientific corruption is negligible. Of course that won't change the mind of someone who sees corruption and conspiracies everywhere.
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Scoffing whales is not the same as scoffing cows,pigs, chickens etc. Whales are not farmed and tgeir populations do not reproduce sufficiently rapidly, thus they are a finite source :old:
It appears the general concensus is you guys should knock it off.
BTW Scholtz, what is your opinion of the Faroe celebration?
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peer review system? so, there is more than one organization monitoring the minke whale population worldwide and they exchange notes...ok
so if i could get a few researchers to say the population of minke whales is less than 100,000 worldwide, in writing, "peer reviewed" authentic...what effect would that have on the Norwegian fishing boats and the economy in general? if you dig a little bit, you can find falsified scientific data that was "peer reviewed" and passed as truth until someone came clean or blew the whistle.
not saying that anything fishy is going on in Norway, there are probably no dishonest people in charge, but...as a general rule, in the global economy and international politics we have to deal with, corruption isn't an exception.
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Danny, try to understand that they are not a finite resource. Their population is increasing by the thousands each year. Any "ritual" that leads to unnecessary suffering of animals is deplorable. Any harvesting that depletes a otherwise renewable natural resource is deplorable.
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Gyrene, you wouldn't get that number peer reviewed because the paper would be challenged by other scientists who are not "on the take". The scientists at the Norwegian oceanic research department and Universities are not financially dependent on the industry they're researching. They get their salaries from the Norwegian state. During the 1990's they set the quotas very low and for three years they outright banned whaling in Norway due to an unknown negative development in the minke whale population (possibly disease). This led to economic hardship for the whaling fleet, but that is irrelevant to the science and conservation of this resource.
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Done responsibly I'll leave it up to the nations who's water it is.
Only comment I have is that I have heard from a Japanese person in regards to their whaling that nobody eats it because it tastes terrible and it is only continued because of hard line nationalists that don't want to bow to international pressure.
I can't speak to the Nordic nation's whaling at all.
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Karnak, from the enemies of whaling themselves:
"According to the Guardian, of the 1,873 tons of whale meat processed in 2001, 70 tons went unsold."
http://animal.discovery.com/tv-shows/whale-wars/about-whaling/japanese-whalers-japan-whale-meat-popular.htm
That's not a very large percentage of waste.
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Episode two!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5kItY6ZQH4
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Scholz, obviously you and many of your fellow Norwegians feel harvesting minke whales is a necessity and the way the industry is handled is proper...at least it's not like some places where people starve in the streets and the livestock is treated with the reverence of some deity...or those places where the people eat grass to survive while those in power get fat eating caviar for breakfast.
don't be so surprised when people don't agree with your justification of acceptance...considering the other viable food resources at your countries disposal, there just isn't any real justification.
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You see Gyrene, we don't do only what is necessary. We do what we want, as long as it is done responsibly. And I also get the impression that you also do things that strictly are not necessary. Whaling is not a necessity. Whaling is something we want, and do.
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Gyrene, you seem to think everything people do needs to be justified. I am of the complete opposite opinion: Everything you want to prevent people from doing needs to be justified. If there is no reasonable justification for limiting or banning an activity it should be allowed.
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I dont see what people's problem is here, these minke arent endangered, they live free in the wild and are killed as humanely as possible. compare that to the average chicken, which spends its entire life in conditions which could reasonably be described as torture. or most farmed animals come to that.
I think the main problem is that people dont know, or want to think about where their steaks and chicken nuggets come from.
:headscratch:
edit: and since its been recommended by someone who knows about it, I'll be trying whalemeat if I happen across it now :aok
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:aok
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I dont see what people's problem is here, these minke arent endangered, they live free in the wild and are killed as humanely as possible. compare that to the average chicken, which spends its entire life in conditions which could reasonably be described as torture. or most farmed animals come to that.
I think the main problem is that people dont know, or want to think about where their steaks and chicken nuggets come from.
:headscratch:
edit: and since its been recommended by someone who knows about it, I'll be trying whalemeat if I happen across it now :aok
I believe that you are correct.
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Gyrene, you seem to think everything people do needs to be justified. I am of the complete opposite opinion: Everything you want to prevent people from doing needs to be justified. If there is no justification for limiting or banning an activity it should be allowed.
seriously? by that line of thinking, there is a very dangerous predatory mammal that carries some very nasty diseases and is extremely destructive to the entire planet. with a global population of 6 billion and counting and the ability to reproduce quickly, i should be able to destroy as many as i can by whatever means i have at my disposal without any objection from anyone at any time. the animal is so prolific and destructive that in many regions there isn't enough food resources for it to survive and the young have a high mortality rate. maybe by killing the most dangerous and destructive specimens as well as those that don't have the capacity to care for themselves, a healthier stock will result.
all things considered, no justification should be needed to kill as many as needed to bring the population under control and possibly save other species that are affected everywhere the animal exists...would your country have any objections if i started in Norway?
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I dont see what people's problem is here, these minke arent endangered, they live free in the wild and are killed as humanely as possible. compare that to the average chicken, which spends its entire life in conditions which could reasonably be described as torture. or most farmed animals come to that.
I think the main problem is that people dont know, or want to think about where their steaks and chicken nuggets come from.
:headscratch:
edit: and since its been recommended by someone who knows about it, I'll be trying whalemeat if I happen across it now :aok
i would agree with you if the lowly minke whale had as big of a population as chickens (for that matter, even the north american white tailed deer) and could reproduce in similar numbers...
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I would do it for $20 USD if:
- I was the pitcher and not the catcher
- You paid me, up front
- The camel was wearing lipstick
:lol
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seems a little unrealistic to expect an animal which weighs 5 tonnes to reach the same population numbers as an animal which weighs a coupla pounds and has been intensively farmed for the last few hundred years ...
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funny thing is Holmes, the population as far back as 1950 was more than twice what it is now...no one knows how many existed before the whaling industry decimated the populations of all whales.
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Karnak, from the enemies of whaling themselves:
"According to the Guardian, of the 1,873 tons of whale meat processed in 2001, 70 tons went unsold."
http://animal.discovery.com/tv-shows/whale-wars/about-whaling/japanese-whalers-japan-whale-meat-popular.htm
That's not a very large percentage of waste.
That's a very old source now GS, here is a much more recent one.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jun/14/japan-appetite-whale-meat-wanes
Japan's failing appetite for whale meat left three-quarters of meat from whales caught in the north-west Pacific last summer unsold, according to a report.
Junko Sakuma, a freelance journalist, said the body responsible for selling meat from Japan's controversial "scientific" whaling programme had failed to sell 908 tonnes of the 1,211-tonne catch, despite holding 13 public auctions since last October.
But campaigns to revive the tradition of eating whale meat – which was largely confined to a few coastal towns – have failed to capture the public's imagination.
A 2006 survey by the Nippon Research Centre found that 95% of Japanese people never or rarely eat whale meat. Consumption of whale meat rose after the second world war as it provided a much-needed source of protein.
The whaling in Norway I do not know much about, but the Japanese blatant "research" whaling is getting up even my nose. and I am not normally someone who follows causes.
If Norway is handling the stock levels correctly and are not breaking laws to hunt... and are actually eating the damn meat. I am OK with that.
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i would agree with you if the lowly minke whale had as big of a population as chickens (for that matter, even the north american white tailed deer) and could reproduce in similar numbers...
There are a few, population control hunts in PA that happen every couple of years or so that culls the herds by a few hundred deer and the meat is then donated to local places to help those in need of food such as http://www.philabundance.org/ (http://www.philabundance.org/)
There is always the inevitable group of animal activists that come to protest these "mindless slaughter of innocent animals"
Meanwhile, in 2011 alone, there were 3,400 reported vehicular accidents that involved hitting a deer (most of which I am sure did not survive), resulting in 9 fatalities...
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Commercial fishing is a strange industry where they contribute absolutely nothing to the product they are taking :old:
At least when they cut down trees they plant new ones.
The Japanese hunting Whales and coming out with complete kak about scientific studying of them is a joke :old:
I don't give a Tinkers cuss about Whales, but the hypocrisy of those people justifying it is nauseating, they kill Whales because its worth a fortune because it is RARE, and the reason they are rare because they have nearly killed them off :rofl
I think we should start hunting Unicorns they must be worth some coin and there are still loads of them left :old:
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deer are fast becoming a real pest near me, we're going to need culls soon and I guarantee there will be uproar about it :rolleyes:
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they kill Whales because its worth a fortune because it is RARE
if you mean the Japanese that is not the case - read the reports above. Its a nationalistic thing, a matter of pride.
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deer are fast becoming a real pest near me, we're going to need culls soon and I guarantee there will be uproar about it :rolleyes:
They have the ability do destroy ridiculous amounts of crops when the population is not regulated.
Also, in some places around here such as Valley Forge Park, which also happens to have a heavily traveled state road passing through it, you can't drive faster than 15 MPH at night without taking your life into your hands. If you look to the left and right of the road at night, there are literally dozens upon dozens of deer, everywhere you look.
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Matter of Pride? :rofl
Nationalistic thing? :rofl
The less we say about the above in Regards to Japan the better :old:
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Whale pie?
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If it's legal and it's controlled i don't have a problem.
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They have the ability do destroy ridiculous amounts of crops when the population is not regulated.
Also, in some places around here such as Valley Forge Park, which also happens to have a heavily traveled state road passing through it, you can't drive faster than 15 MPH at night without taking your life into your hands. If you look to the left and right of the road at night, there are literally dozens upon dozens of deer, everywhere you look.
!!!! Have gun - Will travel!!!
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So with the exception of Gyrene, which honestly seems a bit extreme, the general consensus is that whaling is fine as long as we eat them and don't kill them off?
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:headscratch: i have a question (keep in mind i used to hunt and fish every single season that i could get a license for)...if humans are building houses and towns in the natural habitat of deer (for example) that existed long before european settlers even knew what it looked like, which one is the pest, the deer or the human?
So with the exception of Gyrene, which honestly seems a bit extreme, the general consensus is that whaling is fine as long as we eat them and don't kill them off?
first you accuse me of being vegan, now i'm extreme? come on...i'm simply in touch with reality. every excuse you have given for killing whales can be applied to humans, only more so since there are more of us. only difference is, we are more destructive and dangerous, but we're the ones making the rules...
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Well... It's not like we don't kill humans too. Just not for food. Some places they kill each other over food, but that's different. You're advocating some sort of equal rights for animals; clearly demonstrated by your latest post. The deer are the pests, not the humans. Humans can be pests to other humans though, and then we invariably kill them too.
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Well... It's not like we don't kill humans too. Just not for food. Some places they kill each other over food, but that's different. You're advocating some sort of equal rights for animals; clearly demonstrated by your latest post.
then you're getting the wrong idea. i'm pointing out the flawed thinking of what you believe is good stewardship in order to maintain a way of life and a source of food. it would be different if someone was doing something to assist the whales in recoving their numbers or even increasing (like providing food) and not just hunting them thinking there are enough for the species to survive long term.
The deer are the pests, not the humans. Humans can be pests to other humans though, and then we invariably kill them too.
you have to explain where you got that idea...here in the u.s. we have people moving out of the urban sprawl that we created (abandoned and condemned buildings crumbling everywhere) only to destroy natural habitat so people can build paved roads and houses in the woods, then complain when the wildlife interferes with their lives. yet they sit in front of their televsions and get angry when someone like VonMessa and RTHolmes suggests "culling the population" of one animal or another. all the while forgetting the animals that had to die or move in order for them to have a paved road to their new house in the woods.
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the deer are a pest near me because there are so many. there are so many because some of their natural preditors became extinct long ago, and the others (us) buy food from supermarkets instead of hunting them regularly. we also farm very intensively and have cleared forest so they have a far more abundant food supply than 1000yrs ago. there are also a couple of species which are non-native (ie. we were here 1000s of years before they arrived/were introduced.)
culls will just restore the natural balance. and make some excellent burgers :aok
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Gyrene, again you seem to ignore the fact that the minke whale population is increasing; and to such a level we may cull them to keep the population more healthy (better meat). You also ignore the fact that we have been successfully shepherding this resource for more than a thousand years.
As for the deer, again you seem to advocate some sort of equal rights for animals. Animals don't have property rights; they live on land that we own. There isn't a square foot of land on Earth that isn't owned by humans, and if the animals want it they will have to fight for it. In fact the deer are themselves our property to do with as we please. The only right animals have is to be killed with minimal suffering, within reason; and that is more etiquette than law in most countries.
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Episode 3 - Hunters stew (with rice)!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8nRIrP_fsg
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you have to explain where you got that idea...here in the u.s. we have people moving out of the urban sprawl that we created (abandoned and condemned buildings crumbling everywhere) only to destroy natural habitat so people can build paved roads and houses in the woods, then complain when the wildlife interferes with their lives. yet they sit in front of their televsions and get angry when someone like VonMessa and RTHolmes suggests "culling the population" of one animal or another. all the while forgetting the animals that had to die or move in order for them to have a paved road to their new house in the woods.
In my state (PA) the deer herd is larger, and healther than it was around the turn of the century, and home building is at an all time high. Heck, there was a time around the turn of the century (1900's)in PA when the Whitetailed Deer was thought to be gone from the state.How did it recover? Thru the actions of sportsmen/women keeping the deer population in check with the available habitat, combined with a Game Commision that is excellent.
Your quote about "culling the population" and sitting in front of the TV reminds me of the lady i saw that whacked a deer in her Mercedes down in Buckingham PA (VonMessa knows the area im talking about, average house is in the 6 or 7 digit price range). I stopped to give her a hand, and get the deer off the road. She was flipping out over the(bleeping) damages to her car, saying something needs to be done about all the (bleeping deer...she went on to say something like "first my landscaping and now my bleeping car") I walked around the back of the car and low and behold on the bumper was a PETA sticker, and another one about not eating meat or something like that. Knowing she was obviously unhurt, i dragged the deer off the road, walked by her and told her to call PETA, maybe they could figure it out for her. It was hypocracy at its finest.
The other nice thing that we have come up with is the "Hunters Harvest" whereas if a deer is hit, or if a hunter wants to, he can donate a all or a portion of the animal to a local food bank, with the Game Commission assisting in the costs of getting the animal butchered.
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Gyrene, again you seem to ignore the fact that the minke whale population is increasing; and to such a level we may cull them to keep the population more healthy (better meat). You also ignore the fact that we have been successfully shepherding this resource for more than a thousand years.
i hate to tell you this but, "culling" does not make the population "more healthy" or make better meat. if it did, the thousand years your people have supposedly spent "shepherding" the whales would not have resulted in the 3 year ban on whale hunting.
During the 1990's they set the quotas very low and for three years they outright banned whaling in Norway due to an unknown negative development in the minke whale population (possibly disease). This led to economic hardship for the whaling fleet, but that is irrelevant to the science and conservation of this resource.
after a thousand years, a genetically stronger stock should exist now and would not have suffered a collapse due to an "unknown negative development". one would think that after a thousand years someone would have come up with better methods to not only insure the survival of the species but figure out a ways to increase the numbers so that discussions like this wouldn't even exist. fact is limiting the seasonal catch is the only thing the country has done, just like many other countries. nothing special...
As for the deer, again you seem to advocate some sort of equal rights for animals. Animals don't have property rights; they live on land that we own. There isn't a square foot of land on Earth that isn't owned by humans, and if the animals want it they will have to fight for it. In fact the deer are themselves our property to do with as we please. The only right animals have is to be killed with minimal suffering, within reason; and that is more etiquette than law in most countries.
lol, i see the neanderthal mentality isn't just an american thing. if animals don't have rights to exist where they did millenia before the encroachment of humans, what gives the human animal rights? what, because we're the ones making up the rules, we get to dictate what has rights and what doesn't? you are a single specimen of a highly destructive invasive species, just as susceptible to being displaced as any other species walking the planet, a temporary resident with a shorter lifespan than some reptiles. humans don't own any more of the planet than a colony of ants. in fact, using the human idea of possession equals ownership, ants own more of the planet than humans. the only right humans have, is the same right that applies to every other species, the right to live and die. in order to do that, we need to make sure we take the time to ensure the survival of other species that we depend on for our survival and in sufficient numbers to feed our growing populations. can't do that by industrial farming (it creates a genetic cesspool that is more susceptible to disease and defect than other methods), or destroying habitat to the point where the animals have to invade our alternate food sources in order to survive. killing animals because they are getting in the way of progress is a self defeating practice. in the case of culling herds of white tail deer, wouldn't it make more sense to relocate the animals from more highly populated regions to places that are less populated and perhaps spread the genetic pool out a little? conservationists do it to alligators, and fewer people rely on them for sport and food than white tailed deer.
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I'm sorry, but I can't take you seriously. We'll never agree, so let's just leave it at that. :)
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dammit and i was just starting to enjoy it GScholz... :lol
i wouldn't mind trying some minke whale if i ever get the opportunity. and i really do hope they last long enough for your great great grand children to enjoy, not just eating but seeing in their natural habitat.
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holy wall of non-sequiturs and misinformation! :huh
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:aok
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holy wall of non-sequitors and misinformation! :huh
what, you don't like the idea of relocating rather than culling?
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how about a compromise - relocation to the nearest butchers?
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how about a compromise - relocation to the nearest butchers?
sounds delicious.
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ok consider this, the dnr calls for a cull...let's say 10% based on estimated population of 3000 within a 200 square mile region. why not relocate 5% to another region with a smaller population or even another state with a lower total population and more natural habitat, then still cull 5% for whatever purpose the locals are happy with? i know of some areas where the white tail population could use some renewing and there is plenty of space for them...
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relocated animals generally die within a year.
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maybe in texas but not other states...
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No, thats every where...
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just some info, btw i don't hunt.
"Studies have shown that approximately 4% of the deer die in transport, as many as 25% of translocated deer die within the first two months of trapping and translocation, and more than 85% of deer may not survive longer than one year.* These deer tend to have high mortality rates resulting from capture-related injuries, unfamiliarity with the release site and encounters with new mortality agents.
Many deer suffer from a type of trapping stress called capture myopathy. Capture myopathy is a degenerative disease of skeletal muscle associated with the increased muscular exertion and over stimulation of the nervous system as a result of the capture, restraint, and transportation of animals. Illness and death may result due to disruption of normal circulation, muscle tissue damage, and electrolyte imbalance. Affected animals may show muscle tremors or muscle rigidity, weakness, hyperthermia, respiratory difficulty, collapse, and death. Animals that do not die acutely may succumb later due to inadequate oxygen supply to the kidneys and from toxic products of muscle breakdown.
This technique has the potential to spread harmful diseases such as Chronic Wasting Disease and Tuberculosis from one deer population to another."
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so the mortality rate is high enough that it relocation isn't a viable option? something is wrong with the methods being used then...then again, maybe there are too many for the land to support due to conservation efforts. :headscratch:
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if 85% die within a year i'd say it's not.
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I think BaDkaRmA158Th must be a vegan... :huh
No i eat meat.
Death to humans.
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You're a cannibal?
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I think it ought to be legal as long as it is done with traditional low-tech equipment. No motorized boats/vehicles of any sort (including spotter aircraft), no explosives or propellants, etc. Just some dudes in a human-powered boat chucking a spear at the whale. They could pretty much eliminate any catch quotas if this was the rule, but I suppose you could put in a catch limit of 10 per year per harpooner. So one harpooner could feed his village and maybe sell off one or two for some cash, but not really make a full time living or get rich from whaling.
I think that would ensure that people who *need* to hunt whales could continue to do so, while discouraging doing it for fun/sport/profit. Even those hunting whales for "science" ought to be required to obtain their catch using these measures, but I guess we could allow them to buy whales pre-hunted so we don't lose too many real scientists to Davy Jones.
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Eagl, it's an industry, not a sport. We're discussing commercial whaling, so I guess that means your against it?
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so the mortality rate is high enough that it relocation isn't a viable option? something is wrong with the methods being used then...then again, maybe there are too many for the land to support due to conservation efforts. :headscratch:
We simply have removed too many predatory animals. Lots of places where we have reduced or eliminated predators like large cats and wild canines, especially pack animals, natural prey populations have surged out of control. Hunting laws and bag limits sometimes don't keep pace, and the populations then get decimated by disease or starvation. That's pretty dumb...
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Eagl, it's an industry, not a sport. We're discussing commercial whaling, so I guess that means your against it?
Nope, not against it. I just think that from a long-term perspective (I mean REALLY long term), the risk of over-hunting (ie. making a mistake) outweighs the requirement for whale meat as a food source. So, by all means make it commercial but make it nearly impossible to exceed sustainable catch limits. Lots of marine hunting/fishing industries have strict limits on what technology can be used to ensure over-fishing doesn't happen, and whaling isn't that much different. So as a practical matter, put the whalers in rowboats with hand-thrown harpoons and have at it. As I said before, we probably don't need to bother with catch limits under those equipment restrictions.
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I've read historical accounts of massive whaling fleets, and it's certainly doable from a business perspective. Every morning before dawn, the mother ship sends out a dozen or more hunt teams in rowboats. They use lights on the mothership for positioning, and fan out up to a few miles from the ship in a line across the known routes the whales usually travel. Everyone is in place when the sun comes up, and then the hunt begins. Using that system against a robust population, even a small a whaling fleet can catch dozens of whales every day. It's just not EASY, and that's ok with me.
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you want to go from sustainable whaling using the most humane method possible to sustainable whaling using spears, massively increasing the whales suffering? I'd like to hear you justify that ...
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Eagl, unless the entire population is killed off in one season no mistake is uncorrectable. The population must be allowed to recover by restricting or halting the harvest for a period of time. At the moment we are harvesting one-fifth of one percent of the population yearly. Even if the minke whale population somehow were unable to recover from this minute yearly loss, it would take 250 years for us to half their numbers. It would take a lot less time than that to detect the reduction in population and halt the harvest.
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you want to go from sustainable whaling using the most humane method possible to sustainable whaling using spears, massively increasing the whales suffering? I'd like to hear you justify that ...
Frankly, the suffering wasn't part of the consideration. Preservation of the resource over the long term in the face of human frailty is the primary concern for me. The squeamish can set up a garden plot and supplement their diet with legumes or whatever it is that vegans get protein from.
I do object to wholesale whale herd/pod slaughter by any means including ancient primitive techniques, and the practice of chasing an entire pod of whales or dolphin into shallow water and hacking them up one by one doesn't seem to be the right way to go about that sort of thing. I object to shark finning due to the mindless wastefulness of the practice as well as the environmental impact, since we don't really have good data on shark populations and their complete role in the ocean ecosystems.
If I was going to take a moralistic approach to "respecting" the animals, I think the rational approach is to draw a parallel between the demonstrated intelligence of various whale species to other animals we don't kill/eat for various reasons. For example, certain killer whale and dolphin behaviors are arguably the acts of a thinking creature with an intelligence level at least that of several "intelligent" species of monkey/ape/orangutan, while behaviors of certain baleen whales appear to be no more thinking than that of a cow, or maybe a horse. There is a moral and ethical argument against killing intelligent species for food. I choose however not to go there, because there is very little room for rational discourse in that area due to the hysterical rantings of extremists on both sides of the argument.
So I'll go for my own brand of humanist argument... If you're going to hunt down, kill, and eat, an animal that holds a fragile spot in the ecosystem, maybe an acceptable "human" compromise would be to accept some personal risk in order to make it VERY difficult to force that animal to extinction. If it is too easy to kill them, then the difference between a useful resource and extinction is a matter of policy and I don't trust people enough to think that's a good risk to take.
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Eagl, most of the senseless slaughter of whales was done in the sail ship and steamship era with primitive equipment. The only thing that will prevent something like that happening again is a regulated industry, enforced by the coastguard/navy. Without enforcement, law is just words on a piece of paper.
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but who would enforce it in international waters?
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The navies of countries. Multi-national fleets are already enforcing anti-piracy laws in international waters, and for several decades now Norway has taken upon itself to protect the wildlife stock in the Norwegian sea and Arctic regions, despite not all of it being in our "economic zone". Sometimes this had led to confrontations with ship from other nations, particularly the Russians.
One incident that got a bit out of hand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy0W2YTTlTo
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This thread turned out far better than I had feared. Even the trolling was polite! :)
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just some info, btw i don't hunt.
"Studies have shown that approximately 4% of the deer die in transport, as many as 25% of translocated deer die within the first two months of trapping and translocation, and more than 85% of deer may not survive longer than one year.* These deer tend to have high mortality rates resulting from capture-related injuries, unfamiliarity with the release site and encounters with new mortality agents.
Many deer suffer from a type of trapping stress called capture myopathy. Capture myopathy is a degenerative disease of skeletal muscle associated with the increased muscular exertion and over stimulation of the nervous system as a result of the capture, restraint, and transportation of animals. Illness and death may result due to disruption of normal circulation, muscle tissue damage, and electrolyte imbalance. Affected animals may show muscle tremors or muscle rigidity, weakness, hyperthermia, respiratory difficulty, collapse, and death. Animals that do not die acutely may succumb later due to inadequate oxygen supply to the kidneys and from toxic products of muscle breakdown.
This technique has the potential to spread harmful diseases such as Chronic Wasting Disease and Tuberculosis from one deer population to another."
I wonder how all those red, fallow,sika, sambar, and white tailed got relocated to NZ then. Not to mention the tahr and chamois.
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I wonder how all those red, fallow,sika, sambar, and white tailed got relocated to NZ then. Not to mention the tahr and chamois.
i have no idea, go ask them
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I am against whaling.
The Sierra was sunk by Sea Shepherd operatives in Lisbon harbor in Portugal on February 6, 1980.
My wife and I opened a bottle of Champagne to celebrate.
If you don't know about the Sierra, who owned it, who crewed it, look it up.
LtngRydr
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Lab Rat, what is the reasoning behind you being against whaling?
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Whales are sentient beings that understand the concepts of family, mourning, revenge, play, cuddling and they also have sex just for pleasure not just procreation. And it appears they also have a language.
LtngRydr
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You could say the same thing about dogs.
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canines don't have sex for pleasure, they only respond when a female is in heat.
As for a language, extremely rudumentary at best.
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canines don't have sex for pleasure, they only respond when a female is in heat.
As for a language, extremely rudumentary at best.
Apparently my leg is in season every time I go to one of my customers :confused:
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By the way, I am not vegan.
Beef, pork, buffalo, moose, deer, elk, antelope have all been on my BBQ. The only meat I won't eat is lamb.
And whale.
If you like it, enjoy it.
I just happen to like whales where they are, in the ocean.
I grew up in Southern California and enjoyed the occasional sightings during the gray whales migration south to birth their calves.
LtngRydr
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Apparently my leg is in season every time I go to one of my customers
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Ya' got me on that one :salute
Is it a little dog ? I've noticed the same problem on occasion and it was always someone's small dog, never a large one.
LtngRydr
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I also like them in the ocean. "Whale safari" is a popular tourist attraction here since whales are so bountiful. I also like them on my plate, because they taste good. Just like with other families of species the different whale species range from cows to monkeys in intelligence. While the bottlenose dolphin reaches 4.14 on the encephalization quotient, the franciscana dolphin only scores 1.67. Dogs register at 1.17, and most of the larger whales are dumber than that. Humans clock in at 7.4 to 7.8.
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Humans clock in at 7.4 to 7.8.
not all of them...read the world news. :lol
so, considering humans are in such abundance, would it be ok to hunt, kill and eat them?
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The only thing we don't (normally) do is eat them.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Wxc1MxGY9KM/TtwTCeg32KI/AAAAAAAADtU/t5pA06Fqv5s/s1600/predator.jpg)
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not all of them...read the world news. :lol
so, considering humans are in such abundance, would it be ok to hunt, kill and eat them?
When do we start?