Author Topic: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?  (Read 2461 times)

Offline GScholz

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #150 on: May 17, 2013, 07:48:12 PM »
Eagl, unless the entire population is killed off in one season no mistake is uncorrectable. The population must be allowed to recover by restricting or halting the harvest for a period of time. At the moment we are harvesting one-fifth of one percent of the population yearly. Even if the minke whale population somehow were unable to recover from this minute yearly loss, it would take 250 years for us to half their numbers. It would take a lot less time than that to detect the reduction in population and halt the harvest.
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Offline eagl

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #151 on: May 17, 2013, 10:08:33 PM »
you want to go from sustainable whaling using the most humane method possible to sustainable whaling using spears, massively increasing the whales suffering? I'd like to hear you justify that ...

Frankly, the suffering wasn't part of the consideration.  Preservation of the resource over the long term in the face of human frailty is the primary concern for me.  The squeamish can set up a garden plot and supplement their diet with legumes or whatever it is that vegans get protein from.

I do object to wholesale whale herd/pod slaughter by any means including ancient primitive techniques, and the practice of chasing an entire pod of whales or dolphin into shallow water and hacking them up one by one doesn't seem to be the right way to go about that sort of thing.  I object to shark finning due to the mindless wastefulness of the practice as well as the environmental impact, since we don't really have good data on shark populations and their complete role in the ocean ecosystems.

If I was going to take a moralistic approach to "respecting" the animals, I think the rational approach is to draw a parallel between the demonstrated intelligence of various whale species to other animals we don't kill/eat for various reasons.  For example, certain killer whale and dolphin behaviors are arguably the acts of a thinking creature with an intelligence level at least that of several "intelligent" species of monkey/ape/orangutan, while behaviors of certain baleen whales appear to be no more thinking than that of a cow, or maybe a horse.  There is a moral and ethical argument against killing intelligent species for food.  I choose however not to go there, because there is very little room for rational discourse in that area due to the hysterical rantings of extremists on both sides of the argument. 

So I'll go for my own brand of humanist argument...  If you're going to hunt down, kill, and eat, an animal that holds a fragile spot in the ecosystem, maybe an acceptable "human" compromise would be to accept some personal risk in order to make it VERY difficult to force that animal to extinction.  If it is too easy to kill them, then the difference between a useful resource and extinction is a matter of policy and I don't trust people enough to think that's a good risk to take. 
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline GScholz

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #152 on: May 18, 2013, 09:00:31 AM »
Eagl, most of the senseless slaughter of whales was done in the sail ship and steamship era with primitive equipment. The only thing that will prevent something like that happening again is a regulated industry, enforced by the coastguard/navy. Without enforcement, law is just words on a piece of paper.
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #153 on: May 18, 2013, 09:16:14 AM »
but who would enforce it in international waters?
jarhed  
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #154 on: May 18, 2013, 09:53:47 AM »
The navies of countries. Multi-national fleets are already enforcing anti-piracy laws in international waters, and for several decades now Norway has taken upon itself to protect the wildlife stock in the Norwegian sea and Arctic regions, despite not all of it being in our "economic zone". Sometimes this had led to confrontations with ship from other nations, particularly the Russians.

One incident that got a bit out of hand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy0W2YTTlTo
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline GScholz

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #155 on: May 19, 2013, 12:26:35 PM »
This thread turned out far better than I had feared. Even the trolling was polite! :)
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #156 on: May 19, 2013, 03:13:32 PM »
just some info, btw i don't hunt.

"Studies have shown that approximately 4% of the deer die in transport, as many as 25% of translocated deer die within the first two months of trapping and translocation, and more than 85% of deer may not survive longer than one year.* These deer tend to have high mortality rates resulting from capture-related injuries, unfamiliarity with the release site and encounters with new mortality agents.

Many deer suffer from a type of trapping stress called capture myopathy. Capture myopathy is a degenerative disease of skeletal muscle associated with the increased muscular exertion and over stimulation of the nervous system as a result of the capture, restraint, and transportation of animals. Illness and death may result due to disruption of normal circulation, muscle tissue damage, and electrolyte imbalance. Affected animals may show muscle tremors or muscle rigidity, weakness, hyperthermia, respiratory difficulty, collapse, and death. Animals that do not die acutely may succumb later due to inadequate oxygen supply to the kidneys and from toxic products of muscle breakdown.

This technique has the potential to spread harmful diseases such as Chronic Wasting Disease and Tuberculosis from one deer population to another."


I wonder how all those red, fallow,sika, sambar, and white tailed got relocated to NZ then. Not to mention the tahr and chamois.

Offline whiteman

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #157 on: May 20, 2013, 04:35:20 PM »
I wonder how all those red, fallow,sika, sambar, and white tailed got relocated to NZ then. Not to mention the tahr and chamois.

i have no idea, go ask them

Offline Lab Rat 3947

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #158 on: May 20, 2013, 05:17:00 PM »
I am against whaling.

The Sierra was sunk by Sea Shepherd operatives in Lisbon harbor in Portugal on February 6, 1980.

My wife and I opened a bottle of Champagne to celebrate.

If you don't know about the Sierra, who owned it, who crewed it, look it up.


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Offline GScholz

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #159 on: May 20, 2013, 05:48:15 PM »
Lab Rat, what is the reasoning behind you being against whaling?
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Offline Lab Rat 3947

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #160 on: May 20, 2013, 07:40:17 PM »
Whales are sentient beings that understand the concepts of family, mourning, revenge, play, cuddling and they also have sex just for pleasure not just procreation. And it appears they also have a language.


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Offline GScholz

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #161 on: May 20, 2013, 07:56:58 PM »
You could say the same thing about dogs.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Lab Rat 3947

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #162 on: May 20, 2013, 08:22:46 PM »
canines don't have sex for pleasure, they only respond when a female is in heat.
As for a language, extremely rudumentary at best.
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Offline danny76

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #163 on: May 20, 2013, 08:32:30 PM »
canines don't have sex for pleasure, they only respond when a female is in heat.
As for a language, extremely rudumentary at best.

Apparently my leg is in season every time I go to one of my customers :confused:
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Offline Lab Rat 3947

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Re: Commercial whaling: For/Against/Indifferent?
« Reply #164 on: May 20, 2013, 08:37:08 PM »
By the way, I am not vegan.
Beef, pork, buffalo, moose, deer, elk, antelope have all been on my BBQ. The only meat I won't eat is lamb.
And whale.

If you like it, enjoy it.

I just happen to like whales where they are, in the ocean.
I grew up in Southern California and enjoyed the occasional sightings during the gray whales migration south to birth their calves.

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