Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Eric19 on May 31, 2013, 10:15:13 PM

Title: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Eric19 on May 31, 2013, 10:15:13 PM
my wish is for the A26 Invader to be brought into AH here are the specs

General characteristics
 Crew: 3
 Length: 50 ft 0 in (15.24 m)
 Wingspan: 70 ft 0 in (21.34 m)
 Height: 18 ft 3 in (5.64 m)
 Wing area: 540 ft² (50 m²)
 Empty weight: 22,850 lb (10,365 kg)
 Loaded weight: 27,600 lb (12,519 kg)
 Max. takeoff weight: 35,000 lb (15,900 kg)
 Powerplant: 2 × Pratt & Whitney R-2800-27 "Double Wasp" radials, 2,000 hp (1,500 kW) each
 
Performance
 Maximum speed: 355 mph (308 kn, 570 km/h)
 Range: 1,400 mi (1,200 nmi, 2,300 km)
 Service ceiling: 22,000 ft (6,700 m)
 Rate of climb: 1,250 ft/min (6.4 m/s)
 Wing loading: 51 lb/ft² (250 kg/m²)
 Power/mass: 0.145 hp/lb (108 W/kg)
 
Armament

 Guns:
 Up to 8 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns in the nose (1,600 rpg)
 8 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 machine guns paired in four optional underwing pods
 2 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 machine guns in remote-controlled dorsal turret
 2 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 machine guns in remote-controlled ventral turret
 
Bombs: 6,000 lb (2,700 kg) capacity - 4,000 lb (1,800 kg) in the bomb bay plus 2,000 lb (910 kg) carried externally on underwing hardpoints
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Rino on May 31, 2013, 11:07:05 PM
     Good wish, but you're gonna have a herd of guys in here soon telling you why it's not needed  :eek:
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Karnak on May 31, 2013, 11:19:56 PM
It would be a nice addition.  Probably the final perk bomber.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Zacherof on June 01, 2013, 03:26:37 AM
If the add the 117, that might be slightly perked.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: RngFndr on June 01, 2013, 08:31:54 AM
+1, a genuine late war light bomber, for the late war arena..
Love the A20, but it is still a warmed over, prewar design..

Do I need to reiterate all that has already been said about this plane??? :rock
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: kvuo75 on June 01, 2013, 08:34:15 AM
it was on the most recent ballot that we voted on in game, lost to the 410, did it not?
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Karnak on June 01, 2013, 09:00:32 AM
it was on the most recent ballot that we voted on in game, lost to the 410, did it not?

No.  If it had been on the ballot it would have utterly dominated the vote.  After having American aircraft dominate the previous player votes HTC omitted American aircraft from the third vote to give a non-American aircraft a shot at winning.

The final vote for the previous aircraft election was between the B-29 and Me410, but only because the B-29 sucked off such a high percentage of the American aircraft vote from the A-26 that the Me410 managed to narrowly edge the A-26 and get through to the final round where it lost in a landslide victory for the B-29.  The previous vote to that ended up between the B-25 and the P-39, where the B-25 won by less than 1%.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: kvuo75 on June 01, 2013, 09:14:14 AM
No.  If it had been on the ballot it would have utterly dominated the vote.  After having American aircraft dominate the previous player votes HTC omitted American aircraft from the third vote to give a non-American aircraft a shot at winning.

The final vote for the previous aircraft election was between the B-29 and Me410, but only because the B-29 sucked off such a high percentage of the American aircraft vote from the A-26 that the Me410 managed to narrowly edge the A-26 and get through to the final round where it lost in a landslide victory for the B-29.  The previous vote to that ended up between the B-25 and the P-39, where the B-25 won by less than 1%.

ahh yes. that's right.  knew it was in there somewhere.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Rich46yo on June 03, 2013, 02:59:14 PM
Honestly I'd be happy with either the A26 and/or the TU-2. I think both would fit into the game perfectly, tho the A-26 would have to have a small perk price. I saw one at LackLand AFB a few months ago when I watched my son graduate BT. Its a beauty and the first thing I thought was "why isnt it in the game yet"?

The TU-2 would be a fine replacement for it. I'd love to see increases in Soviet aviation.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 03, 2013, 03:06:15 PM
     Good wish, but you're gonna have a herd of guys in here soon telling you why it's not needed  :eek:

Huh. Guess not.  :)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 03, 2013, 03:20:52 PM
been playing this game for 7 years waiting for the vader to be added.  I know it wont be the same as back in aw, but nonetheless it brings back lots of memories.


semp
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Rino on June 03, 2013, 03:45:57 PM
Huh. Guess not.  :)

     Pleasantly surprised.....so far  :D
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 03, 2013, 03:53:20 PM
I'd take it over the P-61.  :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Uxj2Ugfm7Vs
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: 5PointOh on June 03, 2013, 03:58:15 PM
Boo Arlo...boo!
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 03, 2013, 04:28:36 PM
Boo Arlo...boo!

Boo Arlo...boo?  :lol
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: earl1937 on June 03, 2013, 04:34:53 PM
my wish is for the A26 Invader to be brought into AH here are the specs

General characteristics
 Crew: 3
 Length: 50 ft 0 in (15.24 m)
 Wingspan: 70 ft 0 in (21.34 m)
 Height: 18 ft 3 in (5.64 m)
 Wing area: 540 ft² (50 m²)
 Empty weight: 22,850 lb (10,365 kg)
 Loaded weight: 27,600 lb (12,519 kg)
 Max. takeoff weight: 35,000 lb (15,900 kg)
 Powerplant: 2 × Pratt & Whitney R-2800-27 "Double Wasp" radials, 2,000 hp (1,500 kW) each
 
Performance
 Maximum speed: 355 mph (308 kn, 570 km/h)
 Range: 1,400 mi (1,200 nmi, 2,300 km)
 Service ceiling: 22,000 ft (6,700 m)
 Rate of climb: 1,250 ft/min (6.4 m/s)
 Wing loading: 51 lb/ft² (250 kg/m²)
 Power/mass: 0.145 hp/lb (108 W/kg)
 
Armament

 Guns:
 Up to 8 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns in the nose (1,600 rpg)
 8 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 machine guns paired in four optional underwing pods
 2 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 machine guns in remote-controlled dorsal turret
 2 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 machine guns in remote-controlled ventral turret
 
Bombs: 6,000 lb (2,700 kg) capacity - 4,000 lb (1,800 kg) in the bomb bay plus 2,000 lb (910 kg) carried externally on underwing hardpoints

What you are wishing for is really the B-26C series of aircraft. Used in Korean and Vietnam wars.(http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p684/earl1937/b-26C_zpsae0446d6.jpg)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 03, 2013, 04:38:55 PM
What you are wishing for is really the B-26C series of aircraft. Used in Korean and Vietnam wars.(http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p684/earl1937/b-26C_zpsae0446d6.jpg)

It wasn't designated the B-26 until after WWII.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-26_Invader

But yes, that's the wish, essentially ... except not Korea and Vietnam.  :salute
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Rino on June 03, 2013, 07:03:28 PM
     I can't remember where I read it, but wasn't the B-26 renamed back to the A-26 during Vietnam?  Some political hogwash about
not having bombers in Southeast Asia?  Obviously long before SAC showed up with the big boys.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: gyrene81 on June 03, 2013, 07:13:22 PM
thailand (i believe), wouldn't allow the u.s. to put bombers in their country but they would allow attack aircraft...think it was the a26k or something like that.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 03, 2013, 08:24:56 PM
This thing is ranked at #41 on the "needed" list.  So no, now file this list in #13 drawer (trash can).   ;)

Next.   :)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 03, 2013, 08:27:53 PM
This thing is ranked at #41 on the "needed" list.  So no, now file this list in #13 drawer (trash can).   ;)

Next.   :)

Who's needed list? From when?  :)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Eric19 on June 03, 2013, 10:30:58 PM
This thing is ranked at #41 on the "needed" list.  So no, now file this list in #13 drawer (trash can).   ;)

Next.   :)
:cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry you can...........this an awsome aircraft how dare you throw this wish into the trash can only Hitech can do that
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: earl1937 on June 03, 2013, 10:51:12 PM
thailand (i believe), wouldn't allow the u.s. to put bombers in their country but they would allow attack aircraft...think it was the a26k or something like that.
:banana: Now that you proded my memory bank, you, sir, are correct! Designation stayed that way until offical retirement in late 70's.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 03, 2013, 11:28:21 PM
:cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry you can...........this an awsome aircraft how dare you throw this wish into the trash can only Hitech can do that

Oh, I'm not crying. You're forgetting something: I don't "wish" for an aircraft based on its arcade game abilities like so many here do.  I'd rather fill in the more obvious gaps in the AH lineup and the A26 is no where near the official top 20 list for aircraft that need to be added.  Oh, and the list I'm referring to is far more official than you think.  I just may be privy to info you're not.   ;)

Soviet SB-2 and Pe-2; British Wellington and Beaufighter, French D520, Italian 303, Japanese Ki-100, US Brewster Buffalo (a real one), and 30-some other more planes and gv's all will come before the A26.   :aok
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 03, 2013, 11:38:46 PM
The F2A-3 should be far lower in priority than the A-26.  At least the A-26 saw action more than once.

ack-ack
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 04, 2013, 02:34:18 AM
Oh, I'm not crying. You're forgetting something: I don't "wish" for an aircraft based on its arcade game abilities like so many here do.  I'd rather fill in the more obvious gaps in the AH lineup and the A26 is no where near the official top 20 list for aircraft that need to be added.  Oh, and the list I'm referring to is far more official than you think.  I just may be privy to info you're not.   ;)

Soviet SB-2 and Pe-2; British Wellington and Beaufighter, French D520, Italian 303, Japanese Ki-100, US Brewster Buffalo (a real one), and 30-some other more planes and gv's all will come before the A26.   :aok

the only thing is that most planes that "need to be added" are seldom used.   if you look at the last planes added in the past couple of years, most are just hangar queens. we need more planes that could be used in the ma and not for the once every other month scenarios.


semp
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: RngFndr on June 04, 2013, 06:34:21 AM
I have the "Great Planes" episode of the A26 Invader on vid..
It shows both the Glassnose and the Gunnose were used in WW2..
They were produced in Parallel, one for level bombing, other as strafer..
Best light bomber of the war! One of the best aircraft produced in WW2, period..

Shame it's not in the game.. Still?????? :headscratch:

(edit), Interesting note.. During the Vietnam war, the USAF had to purchase
a USN plane, the A7 to replace the A26s (and B57s) that had outflown the life
of their airframes.. Good plane huh???
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: gyrene81 on June 04, 2013, 07:12:07 AM
the only thing is that most planes that "need to be added" are seldom used.   if you look at the last planes added in the past couple of years, most are just hangar queens. we need more planes that could be used in the ma and not for the once every other month scenarios.


semp
really? going by your estimation of useful planes, there are only a handful of planes that are "needed" in the ma, ALL others are hangar queens. good thing you're not in charge...

the a-26 isn't "needed" any more than the i-153.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 04, 2013, 02:02:55 PM
really? going by your estimation of useful planes, there are only a handful of planes that are "needed" in the ma, ALL others are hangar queens. good thing you're not in charge...

the a-26 isn't "needed" any more than the i-153.

but the a26 would be used more.


semp
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: gyrene81 on June 04, 2013, 02:19:54 PM
maybe for a short time Semp, until people realize it's just another bomber with a bunch of guns and it can be shot down fairly easily. it's a good bet the a-26c (glass nose) won't be the first model out the door unless hitech and gang are feeling overly generous. probably the first 3-6 months there will be a lot of a-26 missions getting posted every 5 minutes and after a few waves get wiped out by defenders flying 20-30mm equipped fighters, it will get old.

believe it or not, for those that can participate in special events like fso, snapshots and scenarios(even though they tend to be a cluster f@ck at times)...the "fun factor" doesn't eventually tarnish to the point of "same crap different hour", and aircraft that enhance the immersion of those special events are far more useful than the "cool" 5 minute wonders that get wished for so often.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Eric19 on June 04, 2013, 02:29:39 PM
maybe for a short time Semp, until people realize it's just another bomber with a bunch of guns and it can be shot down fairly easily. it's a good bet the a-26c (glass nose) won't be the first model out the door unless hitech and gang are feeling overly generous. probably the first 3-6 months there will be a lot of a-26 missions getting posted every 5 minutes and after a few waves get wiped out by defenders flying 20-30mm equipped fighters, it will get old.

yer wrong just saying
the A26 would be the premier tank buster next to the A20 and IL2 it would see A LOT of use in the MA the only difference between the A20 and A26 is bombload the A26 has a better bombload and can fire 5in HVAR rockets
its got about the same topspeed as an a20 at 355 its certainly not going to be an easy aircraft to shoot down if the pilot knows his aircraft
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: gyrene81 on June 04, 2013, 02:39:40 PM
you must be flying on different maps than i do...i see more jugs, hogs, ponies and lancs dropping eggs on tanks than i have a20s or b26s...the only person who can fly the a20 as well as you're talking about, is cobia and he doesn't do it with a full bomb load.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 04, 2013, 02:40:42 PM
U.S. and British plane sets are quite robust. I'd like to see the Invader added .... after:

(http://www.belliludi.com/SM.79.jpg)

(http://basilzolotov.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/pe-2-2-x.png)

(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/1036/pics/65_12.jpg)

(http://www.nags-gallery.com/gallery/Re2005~1024.jpg)

(http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/personal-gallery/54360d1200958836-fiat-g-55-fiat_g55_nucleo_test.jpg)

(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Ki-100/Kawasaki-Ki-100/images/Art-Kawasaki-Ki-100-I-Otsu-59-Sentai-3-Chutai-W71-Japan-1945-0A.jpg)

(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/Aircraft_of_Aces_High_II_002_zps2f858c0a.png)


Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: gyrene81 on June 04, 2013, 02:43:44 PM
damn, Arlo brought pictures...


you know you want one Arlo...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Douglas_A-26_Invader.JPG)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 04, 2013, 02:46:15 PM
damn, Arlo brought pictures...

Admit it. They made ya pitch camp.  ;)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 04, 2013, 02:55:15 PM
Admit it. They made ya pitch camp.  ;)

yeah but the ords payload is very small.  there's fighters that can carry more ords than 1/2 the bombers you want added.  most of those buffs are slow as hell too.  heck if I want to fly a slow bomber I'll take the lancaster, at least it can carry some ords and has unlimited defensive ammo.

if you want to take bombers that are slow and easy to kill and carry a smaller payload than the most used bombers in here then take a storch.


semp
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 04, 2013, 02:56:53 PM
yeah but the ords payload is very small.  there's fighters that can carry more ords than 1/2 the bombers you want added.  most of those buffs are slow as hell too.  heck if I want to fly a slow bomber I'll take the lancaster, at least it can carry some ords and has unlimited defensive ammo.

if you want to take bombers that are slow and easy to kill and carry a smaller payload than the most used bombers in here then take a storch.

semp

Ah, the LWMA argument. That pie's baked. It's variety time.  :D
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 04, 2013, 03:54:31 PM
U.S. and British plane sets are quite robust. I'd like to see the Invader added .... after:

(http://www.belliludi.com/SM.79.jpg)

(http://basilzolotov.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/pe-2-2-x.png)

(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/1036/pics/65_12.jpg)

(http://www.nags-gallery.com/gallery/Re2005~1024.jpg)

(http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/personal-gallery/54360d1200958836-fiat-g-55-fiat_g55_nucleo_test.jpg)

(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Ki-100/Kawasaki-Ki-100/images/Art-Kawasaki-Ki-100-I-Otsu-59-Sentai-3-Chutai-W71-Japan-1945-0A.jpg)

(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/Aircraft_of_Aces_High_II_002_zps2f858c0a.png)


Great list!!!  Though I'd substitute the SB-3 for the Pe-2.  The Soviets needs something worthy of being a level bomber and the Pe-2 did not excel at level bombing, it did more direct support/shallow dive bombing than anything.  Otherwise, I'd like to see the Wellington added to that picture list.   :aok 
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 04, 2013, 04:49:44 PM
Petlyakov TB-7/Pe-8 may be the better option

(http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album/watermark.php?file=19473)

Though the write-up is kinda depressing (eh, good Russian drama)

The Petlyakov Pe-8 was a Soviet heavy bomber designed before World War II, and the only four-engine bomber the USSR built during the war. Produced in limited numbers, it was used to bomb Berlin in August 1941. It was also used for so-called 'morale raids' designed to raise the spirit of the Soviet people by exposing Axis vulnerabilities. Its primary mission, however, was to attack German airfields, rail yards and other rear-area facilities at night, although one was used to fly the People's Commissar of Foreign Affairs (Foreign Minister) Vyacheslav Molotov from Moscow to the United States in 1942.

Originally designated the TB-7, the aircraft was renamed the Pe-8 after its primary designer, Vladimir Petlyakov, died in a plane crash in 1942. Supply problems complicated the aircraft's production and the Pe-8s also had engine problems. As Soviet morale boosters, they were also high-value targets for the Luftwaffe's fighter pilots. The loss rate of these aircraft, whether from mechanical failure, friendly fire, or combat, doubled between 1942 and 1944.

By the end of the war, most of the surviving aircraft had been withdrawn from combat units. After the war, some were modified as transports for important officials, and a few others were used in various Soviet testing programs. Some supported the Soviet Arctic operations until the late 1950s.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album/profiles/p19473-petlyakov-pe-8.html

(http://www.myhobbylinks.com/images/RUSS-PETPE8.JPG)

(http://www.karaya.pl/thumbnails/max/product/f10c0868e584db737bee67e55b94b1b5885f2a3b.jpg)

(http://img2.ruliweb.daum.net/mypi/gup/75/3376_1.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-E_M7sV2M7-U/UCTbChyP6AI/AAAAAAAAIJg/uvXQvOexQe8/s1600/petlyakov-pe-8.jpg)

Wartime operational history

When Operation Barbarossa began on 22 June 1941, only the 2nd Squadron of the 14th Heavy Bomber Regiment (Russian: Tyazholy Bombardirovochnyy Avia Polk—TBAP), based at Boryspil[16] was equipped with Pe-8s, but was not ready for combat.[17][18] Two of its nine Pe-8s were destroyed by German air strikes shortly after the war began, before the Pe-8s were withdrawn out of reach in Kazan. Stalin ordered that the squadron be reformed into a regiment, and that it strike targets deep inside German territory. Theoretically, this tactic would boost Soviet morale by demonstrating the vulnerability of the enemy. The squadron was re-designated on 29 June as the 412th TBAP and began training for long-range missions.[16] On or about 27 July it was again renamed, this time as the 432nd TBAP.[19] On the evening of 10 August, eight M-40-engined Pe-8s of the 432nd TBAP, accompanied by Yermolaev Yer-2s of the 420th Long-Range Bomber Aviation Regiment (DBAP), attempted to bomb Berlin from Pushkino Airfield near Leningrad. One heavily loaded Pe-8 crashed immediately upon take off, after it lost an engine. Only four managed to reach Berlin, or its outskirts, and of those, only two returned to their base. The others landed elsewhere or crash-landed in Finland and Estonia. The aircraft of the commander of the 81st Long-Range Bomber Division, Combrig Mikhail Vodopianov, to which both regiments belonged, was attacked mistakenly by Polikarpov I-16s from Soviet Naval Aviation over the Baltic Sea and lost an engine; later, before he could reach Berlin, German flak punctured a fuel tank. He crash-landed his aircraft in southern Estonia.[20] Five more Pe-8s were lost during the operation, largely due to the unreliability of the M-40s.[21] Seven Pe-8s were lost during the month of August alone, rendering the regiment ineffective. During this period, the surviving aircraft were re-equipped with AM-35As, which gave them a shorter range, but a more reliable engine.[22]

By 1 October 1941, the regiment mustered fourteen Pe-8s after having been replenished by new aircraft from the factory.[17] It spent the rest of the year conducting night raids on Berlin, Königsberg, Danzig and as well as German-occupied cities in the Soviet Union. The regiment was re-designated as the 746th Separate Long-Range Aviation Regiment (Russian: Otdel'nyy Avia Polk Dahl'nevo Deystviya—OAPDD) on 3 December.[19] No aircraft were reported on hand two days later after this designation, but eleven were on strength on 18 March 1942.[17] During the winter of 1941–42, the regiment was assigned the destruction of a railroad bridge over the Volga River, near Kalinin. In April 1942, one aircraft flew diplomatic personnel and mail on a non-stop flight from Moscow to Great Britain.[22] This was a test run for a flight carrying Soviet Foreign Minister Molotov and his delegation from Moscow to London and then to Washington, D.C. and back, for negotiations to open a second front against Nazi Germany (19 May–13 June 1942). The flight crossed German-controlled airspace on the return trip without incident.[23] From August 1941 to May 1942, the regiment flew 226 sorties and dropped 606 tonnes (596 long tons; 668 short tons) of bombs. In the course of these missions, they lost 14 bombers, five in combat, and the rest from engine malfunction. The regiment received 17 Pe-8s as replacements.[22] Sixteen aircraft were on hand on 1 May 1942, but the number had only increased to seventeen two months later; the regiment was losing aircraft almost as fast as they were being replaced.[17]

The 890th Long-Range Aviation Regiment (Russian: Avia Polk Dahl'nevo Deystviya—APDD) was formed on 15 June 1942[24] and both regiments were used to bomb German-held transportation centers of, among others, Orel, Bryansk, Kursk and Poltava. The pace of activity increased and the regiments flew as many missions in August as they had in the first ten months of the war.[25] By the eve of the Soviet counterattack at Stalingrad, Operation Uranus, on 8 November the regiments had fourteen Pe-8s on hand.[17] Under the command of the 45th Long-Range Bomber Aviation Division (Russian: Dal'nebombardirovochnaya Aviatsionnaya Diviziya—DBAD), they did not participate in the Stalingrad air attacks.[26]

In 1943, from the division's primary airfield at Kratovo, southeast of Moscow, the regiments bombed transportation centers, airfields and troop concentrations. The railroad yard at Gomel was a favorite target and the regiment dropped approximately 606 tonnes (596 long tons; 668 short tons) of bombs there between February and September 1943. It is not clear if these sorties were made by Pe-8s alone or in combination with other aircraft. In addition, the regiment dropped the first FAB-5000 bomb on Königsberg in April 1943, continuing the pin-salamander attacks against targets deep in the German rear.[25] In May 1943, efforts shifted to disrupt the German concentration of forces for the Battle of Kursk. In one sortie, the 109 bombers of the 45th DBAD struck the rail junction at Orsha during the evening of 4 May, most of which were not Pe-8s; the German High Command reported the destruction of 300 rail wagons and three ammunition trains.[27]

By 1 July, the regiment had 18 Pe-8s for deployment during the early phase of the Battle of Kursk. The long-range aviation units continued to attack targets in the German rear areas at night, supporting the Soviet ground offensive in the Orel Bulge, called Operation Kutuzov, that began on 12 July. The Germans had transferred the nightfighters of the Fourth Group of Nightfighter Wing 5 (IV./Nachtjagdgeschwader 5), flying a mix of Junkers Ju 88 and Dornier Do 217 aircraft, to counter the Soviet raids near the Orel area. Initially, the night fighters were ineffective against the Soviet raids, until the deployment of their ground radar "eyes". Once the Germans had use of their radar, after the night of 17–18 July, Soviet losses skyrocketed. Although the Germans flew only fourteen sorties that night, they claimed eight kills. On the night of 20–21 July, Captain (Hauptmann) Heinrich Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein, commander of IV./NJG 5,[28] shot down three himself.[17] The exhaust plume of the ASh-82 engine may have been a contributing factor; the engines lacked flame dampening exhausts, making their plume visible from a distance.[25] Despite its losses, the 746th was re-designated as the 25th Long-Range Guards Aviation Regiment (GAPDD) on 18 September 1943 in recognition of its achievements.[19]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petlyakov_Pe-8

(http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs30/i/2008/114/8/0/Petlyakov_Pe_8_by_araeld.jpg)

(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Pe-8/Pe-8-M-100/images/Artwork-Petlyakov-TB-7-AM-34FRNW-M-100-1941-0B.jpg)











Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 04, 2013, 05:00:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSstrc549xQ

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/Petlyakov_Pe-8.jpg)

Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Devonai on June 04, 2013, 05:54:48 PM
The New England Air Museum in my town recently got an A-26.  It is pretty cool to look at, at least.  Those twin dorsal and ventral remote turrets are awesome.  I love living three miles from a huge air museum.   :D

http://www.neam.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=929
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 04, 2013, 06:49:29 PM
arlo what makes the pe8 a better alternative?  the low number built?  the low ords carried? the slower speed? the few sorties it flew?

the pe is just a footnote, if that.  the a26 had a bigger contribution to the war effort than most of the so called bombers that you want added to the list of hangar queens.


semp
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 04, 2013, 06:55:45 PM
arlo what makes the pe8 a better alternative?  the low number built?  the low ords carried? the slower speed? the few sorties it flew?

the pe is just a footnote, if that.  the a26 had a bigger contribution to the war effort than most of the so called bombers that you want added to the list of hangar queens.

semp

Think outside the LWMA box and look at event balancing. As I mentioned earlier, the LWMA is a baked pie, friend.
It's time to foster events ..... then ask for overkill.  :D



Oh .. and the Pe-8 carried 11k Lbs to the Invader's 6, btw.  ;)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 04, 2013, 06:59:46 PM
Think outside the LWMA box and look at event balancing. As I mentioned earlier, the LWMA is a baked pie, friend.
It's time to foster events ..... then ask for overkill.  :D

perhaps think that lwma pays for aces high.   




semp
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 04, 2013, 07:03:07 PM
perhaps think that lwma pays for aces high.  

semp

And the LWMA's gonna quit in droves because it didn't get the 'vader? Yes, LWMA
profit pays for event development. Much the same main arena paid for events in AW.  :D
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 04, 2013, 07:15:31 PM
arlo what makes the pe8 a better alternative?  the low number built?  the low ords carried? the slower speed? the few sorties it flew?

the pe is just a footnote, if that.  the a26 had a bigger contribution to the war effort than most of the so called bombers that you want added to the list of hangar queens.


semp

The A-26 is just a foot note as well and its contribution to the war effort wasn't as big as you think it is.

ack-ack
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 04, 2013, 07:16:20 PM
And the LWMA's gonna quit in droves because it didn't get the 'vader? Yes, LWMA
profit pays for event development. Much the same main arena paid for events in AW.  :D

they won't quit either because the bombers you suggested aren't added.  the a26 had more of an effect on the war than the bombers youssuggested. I'm actually surprised it hasn't been added yet.

it has met every requirements that players have come up with for inclusion many times over. and  in all seriousness people are asking for Italian planes that were very successful against biplanes and think they deserve to be added more than the a26:


semp
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: gyrene81 on June 04, 2013, 07:17:15 PM
perhaps think that lwma pays for aces high.   


semp
and it has been, but if the lack of something like the a-26 or p-61 was that big of a deal, why is ah still around after all these years without them? using your values most of the planes people enjoy now would not exist in ah.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 04, 2013, 07:18:06 PM
The A-26 is just a foot note as well and its contribution to the war effort wasn't as big as you think it is.

ack-ack

then what does that tell you about the other bombers?.


semp
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 04, 2013, 07:21:34 PM
they won't quit either because the bombers you suggested aren't added.  the a26 had more of an effect on the war than the bombers youssuggested. I'm actually surprised it hasn't been added yet.

it has met every requirements that players have come up with for inclusion many times over. and  in all seriousness people are asking for Italian planes that were very successful against biplanes and think they deserve to be added more than the a26:

semp

Well, we've deduced that the MA is content, then.  :D

Give me a list of historical  battles that can't be set up in events because
we don't have the A-26.  :cool:
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 04, 2013, 07:22:56 PM
then what does that tell you about the other bombers?.

semp

That they're not the A-26 and therefore deserve a mighty poo-poo from you?  :D

Hell, you musta just loved the addition of the He-111.  :aok
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 04, 2013, 08:02:37 PM
That they're not the A-26 and therefore deserve a mighty poo-poo from you?  :D

Hell, you musta just loved the addition of the He-111.  :aok

nope never flown it or actually seen it flown either.


semp
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 04, 2013, 08:15:29 PM
then what does that tell you about the other bombers?.


semp

It tells me that the other bombers should get equal consideration as the A-26 does.

ack-ack
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 04, 2013, 08:31:36 PM
nope never flown it or actually seen it flown either.

semp

Not an event guy at all, I see.  :)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: 5PointOh on June 04, 2013, 10:38:04 PM
 :D   :aok

(http://www.historyofwar.org/Pictures/northrop_P-61_black_widow.jpg)

(http://www.burrowes.org/FamilyTree/E.F.G.Burrowes_LogBook/extras/BeaufighterMustang150dpi.jpg)


 :devil :bolt:  Sorry Arlo, couldn't resist.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 04, 2013, 11:03:42 PM
:D   :aok

(http://www.historyofwar.org/Pictures/northrop_P-61_black_widow.jpg)

(http://www.burrowes.org/FamilyTree/E.F.G.Burrowes_LogBook/extras/BeaufighterMustang150dpi.jpg)


 :devil :bolt:  Sorry Arlo, couldn't resist.

Resist what?  :)

(http://digilander.libero.it/dreamswings/ImmaginiAircraftGallery/BianchiSM79%2001.jpg)

(http://digilander.libero.it/dreamswings/ImmaginiAircraftGallery/BianchiSM79%2003.jpg)

(http://digilander.libero.it/dreamswings/ImmaginiAircraftGallery/BianchiSM79%2002.jpg)

(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u162/Barvan40/Savoia-Marchetti-SM79_001.jpg)

(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/314/pics/32_18_b1.jpg)

(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/314/pics/32_18_b1_a1.jpg)

(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/314/pics/32_18_b1_a2.jpg)

(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/314/pics/32_18_b1_a3.jpg)

(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/314/pics/32_18_b1_a4.jpg)

 :D
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Karnak on June 04, 2013, 11:10:26 PM
then what does that tell you about the other bombers?.


semp
It tells me that you are likely underestimating their contribution to the war effort if you think the A-26 contributed as much as they did.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 05, 2013, 01:03:46 AM
It tells me that you are likely underestimating their contribution to the war effort if you think the A-26 contributed as much as they did.

less than a hundred were built and a good percentage were lost due to reliability problems.  by the end of the war they were being replaced by lend-lease b25's.  if I read correctly only about 20 were available at any one time.

the a26 served in 3 wars.


semp
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Karnak on June 05, 2013, 02:32:11 AM
less than a hundred were built and a good percentage were lost due to reliability problems.  by the end of the war they were being replaced by lend-lease b25's.  if I read correctly only about 20 were available at any one time.

the a26 served in 3 wars.


semp
You said "bombers" indicating many of the bombers Arlo was speaking of.  You did not say "Pe-8".
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: wrench on June 05, 2013, 04:52:12 AM
+1 thumbs up!

 :aok
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: bozon on June 05, 2013, 06:20:16 AM
they won't quit either because the bombers you suggested aren't added.  the a26 had more of an effect on the war than the bombers youssuggested. I'm actually surprised it hasn't been added yet.
Are you suggesting that the A26 had a greater impact on the war then SM-79 or the Beaufighter? or perhaps Yak-3 that Arlo mentioned if you do not limit to bombers?

It is not like A26 should not be added, it is simply a very low priority.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 05, 2013, 06:52:36 AM
the a26 served in 3 wars.

semp

HTC only models planes for one of those three.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Rich46yo on June 05, 2013, 07:35:58 AM
Poor designs dont usually have an almost 30 year service life. The problem the Invader had was by the time it was introduced there just wasnt much of a mission left for it. What was left was being done very well by legacy aircraft. But in Aces High it would be a very popular air frame cause nothing else comes close to it in speed/defensive fire power/bomb load. Just a few would level any town or toejam down a base.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 05, 2013, 09:49:49 AM
You said "bombers" indicating many of the bombers Arlo was speaking of.  You did not say "Pe-8".

alright cool then compare it to the b6n with it's nuclear payload of 800k and powerful engines that make it faster than the storch but nonetheless what are you gonna do with 800k of ords?  the others listed didnt do any better.

the a26 would be a great addition now for strats and hq runs.  given their money's worth to the me163's and hight alt fighters.  not that it can dogfight them but at least give them a good show for it.  or you can add the others after all god knows we dont have enough "new" planes that have been added not being used.


semp
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: gyrene81 on June 05, 2013, 10:00:32 AM
or you can add the others after all god knows we dont have enough "new" planes that have been added not being used.


semp
you might want to look at the numbers again. there are a lot of "old" planes not getting used...but then we all know you would be happiest if there was nothing that didn't fly 400+ mph and looked "cool".

when was the last time you flew in fso or scenario?
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 05, 2013, 10:22:05 AM
.... after all god knows we dont have enough "new" planes that have been added not being used.

semp

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,348291.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,337856.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,336054.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,348690.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,348171.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,345079.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,343508.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,339943.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,337627.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,347650.0.html

Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 05, 2013, 10:53:50 AM
you might want to look at the numbers again. there are a lot of "old" planes not getting used...but then we all know you would be happiest if there was nothing that didn't fly 400+ mph and looked "cool".

when was the last time you flew in fso or scenario?

how often does fso and scenario would use those bombers?  the ma would use the a26 a lot more.


semp
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 05, 2013, 10:55:17 AM
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,348291.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,337856.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,336054.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,348690.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,348171.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,345079.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,343508.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,339943.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,337627.0.html

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,347650.0.html



yes every couple of months there's one.  so some of them would be used in scenarios about once or twice a year. 

semp
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 05, 2013, 10:59:24 AM
how often does fso and scenario would use those bombers?  the ma would use the a26 a lot more.


semp

The day the He-111 was released, various event formats were gearing for inclusion.

The I-16 sees use there.

The F4F sees use there.

The Boston sees use there.

I was being half facetious about you being totally ignorant about events before.
I thought to myself that there can't be a player that's played the game this long
that doesn't have a clue why anything other than the P-51, B-29 and Me-262
were modeled.

I feel bad about giving you a hard time now. Carry on.  :salute :)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 05, 2013, 11:00:33 AM
yes every couple of months there's one.  so some of them would be used in scenarios about once or twice a year. 

semp

Present the long list of potential A-26 events.  :D
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 05, 2013, 11:08:54 AM
The day the He-111 was released, various event formats were gearing for inclusion.

The I-16 sees use there.

The F4F sees use there.

The Boston sees use there.

I was being half facetious about you being totally ignorant about events before.
I thought to myself that there can't be a player that's played the game this long
that doesn't have a clue why anything other than the P-51, B-29 and Me-262
were modeled.

I feel bad about giving you a hard time now. Carry on.  :salute :)

dude when was the he111 released?  because I have yet to see one in the ma.  oh wait hold on, I did see one saturday, I think.  and it was upping from a capped field.  ok so I have seen it once.

and the i16 look at the usage in the ma.  the storch has more kills, 50% more.  and btw I have 1 run in the past year in a b29 that I recall.  and I think one in the 262.  and I have more than enough perks to fly them anytime I want.


semp
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 05, 2013, 11:11:58 AM
dude when was the he111 released?  because I have yet to see one in the ma.  oh wait hold on, I did see one saturday, I think.  and it was upping from a capped field.  ok so I have seen it once.

and the i16 look at the usage in the ma.  the storch has more kills, 50% more.  and btw I have 1 run in the past year in a b29 that I recall.  and I think one in the 262.  and I have more than enough perks to fly them anytime I want.


semp

Hey, it's ok. The word 'event' is foreign to you and all. It's ok. Rah away.  :aok :D

p.s. Meh ... and you should maybe look harder.  ;)

Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 05, 2013, 11:20:39 AM
Hey, it's ok. The word 'event' is foreign to you and all. It's ok. Rah away.  :aok :D

p.s. Meh ... and you should maybe look harder.  ;)



no the word "spendinglotsoftimecoadingapla nethatwillhardlybeused" is well known to you carry on  :salute.


semp
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: gyrene81 on June 05, 2013, 11:43:44 AM
how often does fso and scenario would use those bombers?  the ma would use the a26 a lot more.


semp
quit being a stooge man. there is fun beyond the "we must all winz de warz" and "if it ain't late war it ain't worthy" mentality. there are far fewer people concerned with winning de warz than there are people who just enjoy having something besides brit and american super planes to fly around in.

you really should try an fso or scenario...especially one where there aren't a bunch of substitute aircraft that really aren't appropriate substitutions.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 05, 2013, 12:00:42 PM
no the word "spendinglotsoftimecoadingapla nethatwillhardlybeused" is well known to you carry on  :salute.


semp

You weren't one of the KWRR crowd in AW, per chance?
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Rich46yo on June 05, 2013, 12:05:25 PM
Events are to rare and usually under populated...unfortunately.

My favorite missions are those that use Historically accurate plane sets. That appears rarer and rarer too...unfortunately.

One cant argue the fact that the A-26 would get used a lot in the game. If thats not a point for a plane then I dont know what would be.

I'd rather see the TU-2 personally. And the Beau would be a fine choice as well.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: bozon on June 05, 2013, 12:15:45 PM
One cant argue the fact that the A-26 would get used a lot in the game. If thats not a point for a plane then I dont know what would be.
It will be perked and hence not as popular as some may think.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: gyrene81 on June 05, 2013, 12:22:39 PM
Rich, fso (special event) runs 3 fridays a month. scenarios take a while longer to gear up but they run 3-4 saturdays in a row. sunday european campaign runs most every sunday. then you have snapshots and this day in ww2.

there are plenty of special events with historical setups on great special event maps and the more early-mid war aircraft that get included in the list, the better the special events become. substitutions have sucked the life out of special events, they just don't work well especially for early war setups where there were a lot of different aircraft flying around, including metal biplanes.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 05, 2013, 01:53:10 PM
quit being a stooge man. there is fun beyond the "we must all winz de warz" and "if it ain't late war it ain't worthy" mentality. there are far fewer people concerned with winning de warz than there are people who just enjoy having something besides brit and american super planes to fly around in.

you really should try an fso or scenario...especially one where there aren't a bunch of substitute aircraft that really aren't appropriate substitutions.

what makes you think I havent?   last time I flew in an fso it was a 1 1/2 hour flight for 2 minutes worth of fighting.  would I do it again?  of course, not because of the planes but because of the players I fly with.  however we could be doing our own scenario in the ma attacking the strats using a b26 more than using a pe8 or some of the other "bombers" that you want added so they can be used 1 or twice a year.

and we do the ma thing everyday not "a few times a year".


semp
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: whiteman on June 05, 2013, 03:01:09 PM
heck yea i want the A-26, for looks alone.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 05, 2013, 03:06:12 PM
what makes you think I havent?   last time I flew in an fso it was a 1 1/2 hour flight for 2 minutes worth of fighting.  would I do it again?  of course, not because of the planes but because of the players I fly with.  however we could be doing our own scenario in the ma attacking the strats using a b26 more than using a pe8 or some of the other "bombers" that you want added so they can be used 1 or twice a year.

and we do the ma thing everyday not "a few times a year".


semp

I'm sorry you died so easily in that FSO.

Aren't you having fun playing in the ma pretending you're in a scenario bombing strats using a B-26 without anyone forcing you to use a Russian Tu-2?

B-26

Performance

    Maximum speed: 287 mph (250 knots, 460 km/h) at 5,000 feet (1,500 m)
    Cruise speed: 216 mph (188 knots, 358 km/h)
    Landing speed: 114 mph (90 knots, 167 km/h))
    Combat radius: 1,150 mi (999 nmi, 1,850 km)
    Ferry range: 2,850 mi (2,480 nmi, 4,590 km)
    Service ceiling: 21,000 ft (6,400 m)
    Wing loading: 46.4 lb/ft² (228 kg/m²)
    Power/mass: 0.10 hp/lb (170 W/kg)

Armament

    Guns: 12 × .50 in (12.7 mm) Browning machine guns
    Bombs: 4,000 pounds (1,800 kg)

Tu-2

Performance

    Maximum speed: 521 km/h (281 kn, 325 mph)
    Range: 2,020 km (1,090 nmi, 1,260 mi)
    Service ceiling: 9,000 m (29,528 ft)
    Rate of climb: 8.2 m/s (1,610 ft/min)
    Wing loading: 217 kg/m² (45 lb/ft²)
    Power/mass: 260 W/kg (0.16 hp/lb)

Armament

    Guns:
        2 × 20 mm (0.79 in) fixed forward-firing ShVAK cannon in the wings
        3 × 7.62 mm (0.30 in) rear-firing ShKAS machine guns (later replaced by 12.7 mm (0.50 in) Berezin UB machine guns) in the canopy, dorsal and ventral hatches.
    Bombs: 1,500 kg (3,300 lb) internally and 2,270 kg (5,000 lb) externally


Oh ... and .....

A-26

Performance

    Maximum speed: 355 mph (308 kn, 570 km/h)
    Range: 1,400 mi (1,200 nmi, 2,300 km)
    Service ceiling: 22,000 ft (6,700 m)
    Rate of climb: 1,250 ft/min (6.4 m/s)
    Wing loading: 51 lb/ft² (250 kg/m²)
    Power/mass: 0.145 hp/lb (108 W/kg)

Armament

    Guns:
        Up to 8 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns in the nose (1,600 rpg)
        8 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 machine guns paired in four optional underwing pods
        2 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 machine guns in remote-controlled dorsal turret
        2 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 machine guns in remote-controlled ventral turret
    Bombs: 6,000 lb (2,700 kg) capacity - 4,000 lb (1,800 kg) in the bomb bay plus 2,000 lb (910 kg) carried externally on underwing hardpoints
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Zacherof on June 05, 2013, 03:25:53 PM
If it's added, the bombers I'll use the most will be bostons, and the A26.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Eric19 on June 05, 2013, 04:28:39 PM
I'm sorry you died so easily in that FSO.

Aren't you having fun playing in the ma pretending you're in a scenario bombing strats using a B-26 without anyone forcing you to use a Russian Tu-2?

B-26

Performance

    Maximum speed: 287 mph (250 knots, 460 km/h) at 5,000 feet (1,500 m)
    Cruise speed: 216 mph (188 knots, 358 km/h)
    Landing speed: 114 mph (90 knots, 167 km/h))
    Combat radius: 1,150 mi (999 nmi, 1,850 km)
    Ferry range: 2,850 mi (2,480 nmi, 4,590 km)
    Service ceiling: 21,000 ft (6,400 m)
    Wing loading: 46.4 lb/ft² (228 kg/m²)
    Power/mass: 0.10 hp/lb (170 W/kg)

Armament

    Guns: 12 × .50 in (12.7 mm) Browning machine guns
    Bombs: 4,000 pounds (1,800 kg)

Tu-2

Performance

    Maximum speed: 521 km/h (281 kn, 325 mph)
    Range: 2,020 km (1,090 nmi, 1,260 mi)
    Service ceiling: 9,000 m (29,528 ft)
    Rate of climb: 8.2 m/s (1,610 ft/min)
    Wing loading: 217 kg/m² (45 lb/ft²)
    Power/mass: 260 W/kg (0.16 hp/lb)

Armament

    Guns:
        2 × 20 mm (0.79 in) fixed forward-firing ShVAK cannon in the wings
        3 × 7.62 mm (0.30 in) rear-firing ShKAS machine guns (later replaced by 12.7 mm (0.50 in) Berezin UB machine guns) in the canopy, dorsal and ventral hatches.
    Bombs: 1,500 kg (3,300 lb) internally and 2,270 kg (5,000 lb) externally


Oh ... and .....

A-26

Performance

    Maximum speed: 355 mph (308 kn, 570 km/h)
    Range: 1,400 mi (1,200 nmi, 2,300 km)
    Service ceiling: 22,000 ft (6,700 m)
    Rate of climb: 1,250 ft/min (6.4 m/s)
    Wing loading: 51 lb/ft² (250 kg/m²)
    Power/mass: 0.145 hp/lb (108 W/kg)

Armament

    Guns:
        Up to 8 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns in the nose (1,600 rpg)
        8 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 machine guns paired in four optional underwing pods
        2 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 machine guns in remote-controlled dorsal turret
        2 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 machine guns in remote-controlled ventral turret
    Bombs: 6,000 lb (2,700 kg) capacity - 4,000 lb (1,800 kg) in the bomb bay plus 2,000 lb (910 kg) carried externally on underwing hardpoints

A26 still beats that TU2 but I wouldn't mind both in the next update and quit hijacking my thread plz who gives a crap if it doesn't need to be added its the wishlist not a "we need it now" forum just say yes/no don't need a rant going on
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Rich46yo on June 05, 2013, 04:51:21 PM
Rich, fso (special event) runs 3 fridays a month. scenarios take a while longer to gear up but they run 3-4 saturdays in a row. sunday european campaign runs most every sunday. then you have snapshots and this day in ww2.

there are plenty of special events with historical setups on great special event maps and the more early-mid war aircraft that get included in the list, the better the special events become. substitutions have sucked the life out of special events, they just don't work well especially for early war setups where there were a lot of different aircraft flying around, including metal biplanes.

"sigh" I have to get up so early for work I sadly miss most of these. They are the game at its best, the Historical recreations. I believe it so. I remember more enthusiasm among the membership for more recreations at one time. They are far more fun, and interesting then the "win de map" style of play. I believe.

I'd love to see an eastern front one with TU's or PE's in the mix. Im hoping for a bump for Soviet aviation.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 05, 2013, 05:30:57 PM
A26 still beats that TU2 but I wouldn't mind both in the next update and quit hijacking my thread plz who gives a crap if it doesn't need to be added its the wishlist not a "we need it now" forum just say yes/no don't need a rant going on

25 mph faster with a lower payload, shorter range, slower climb rate and lower ceiling hardly sounds like a 'beats' to me.  :)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Eric19 on June 05, 2013, 05:46:53 PM
tu2 can only handle 8300lbs of ords thats 3700lbs less than what the a26 can handle with its 12,000lb payload, better defensive armorment as well,
the A26's wing loading is within 6lbs/ft^2 of the TUs so that is negilible, the A26 is also better in the offensive department because of its 16 fixed forward firing 50cals so yes it beats the TU2 :rock :rock :rock :rock
move along
i appericate the feed back but plz the russians got nothing on the A26 :D :bolt:
by the way the TU2 only beats the A26 in range by 60 miles so that is redundent
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 05, 2013, 06:15:07 PM
tu2 can only handle 8300lbs of ords thats 3700lbs less than what the a26 can handle with its 12,000lb payload, better defensive armorment as well,
the A26's wing loading is within 6lbs/ft^2 of the TUs so that is negilible, the A26 is also better in the offensive department because of its 16 fixed forward firing 50cals so yes it beats the TU2 :rock :rock :rock :rock
move along
i appericate the feed back but plz the russians got nothing on the A26 :D :bolt:
by the way the TU2 only beats the A26 in range by 60 miles so that is redundent

Math, Eric.

Tu-2

Bombs: 1,500 kg (3,300 lb) internally and 2,270 kg (5,000 lb) externally 3,300 + 5,000 = 8,300 ... lbs

A-26

Bombs: 6,000 lb (2,700 kg) capacity [this is a total - this must be where you became confused] - 4,000 lb (1,800 kg) in the bomb bay plus 2,000 lb (910 kg) carried externally on underwing hardpoints

8,300 - 6,000 = 2,300 lbs ... which means the Tu-2 carries more ord than the A-26.

Greater bomb load .... climbs better, flies higher, flies farther ..... apparently negligible wing-loading differences.
All you want the A-26 for is a strafer, apparently. Game's got a lot of those.  :D



Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 05, 2013, 06:27:34 PM
Interesting section from the A-26 flight manual.

Quote
The following maneuvers are restricted:
a. All acrobatics
Loops, spins, rolls, and violent stalls are prohibited.  The airplane has a wingloading of 60 lbs. per square foot normally loaded with flaps up.  It was not designed for air circus maneuvers or student acrobatic training.

b. Vertical banks.
Remember that the A-26 has a high wingloading, and your stalling speed increases with your rate of bank.  For example, at 31,000 lbs. gross in a 60° bank with the airplane clean and power off, your airplane stalls at 192 mph (42% higher in a 60° bank than in level flight). 

All of these maneuvers are prohibited chiefly because of the high wingloading of the airplane.  Take the airplane designer's and your instructor's word for it.  Don't experiment

ack-ack
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Wmaker on June 05, 2013, 06:29:18 PM
Math, Eric.

Tu-2

Bombs: 1,500 kg (3,300 lb) internally and 2,270 kg (5,000 lb) externally 3,300 + 5,000 = 8,300 ... lbs

Well actually 8300lbs is more than the listed max. bomb load on several very solid sources.

You can theoretically load as much lead to an air plane the landing gear can handle but does that mean it can take off safely?

The max. bomb load listed for a WWII Tu-2 by the Soviet sources is 3000kg (6613lbs).
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 05, 2013, 06:42:41 PM
Well actually 8300lbs is more than the listed max. bomb load on several very solid sources.

You can theoretically load as much lead to an air plane the landing gear can handle but does that mean it can take off safely?

The max. bomb load listed for a WWII Tu-2 by the Soviet sources is 3000kg (6613lbs).

Even with the statistical variability, the 'better is better' method appears to be gasping.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 05, 2013, 07:16:19 PM
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/CAM00435_zpsfc28e0a7.jpg)

(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/CAM00424_zps38d63405.jpg)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Eric19 on June 05, 2013, 07:29:57 PM
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/CAM00435_zpsfc28e0a7.jpg)

(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/CAM00424_zps38d63405.jpg)
yes that still does not equal 12,000lbs of ordance
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 05, 2013, 07:36:58 PM
yes that still does not equal 12,000lbs of ordance

Nor does the A-26's payload equal 12,000 lbs. of ordnance.  The A-26 was only capable of carrying 6,000 lbs. of ordnance total, 4,000 lbs. internally and 2,000 lbs. on wing mounted external hardpoints.

ack-ack
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 05, 2013, 07:38:29 PM
yes that still does not equal 12,000lbs of ordance

No offense, but what grade are you in?
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Eric19 on June 05, 2013, 08:41:56 PM
did not read carefully ty ackack  :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
arlo you got your own thread so butt out plz this A26 parking only take your ruskie plane with you too
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 05, 2013, 09:11:29 PM
did not read carefully ty ackack  :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
arlo you got your own thread so butt out plz this A26 parking only take your ruskie plane with you too
Wait. Is this frustration talking? If it makes you feel better you can go look stupid in 'my' thread, too.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Oldman731 on June 05, 2013, 10:47:54 PM
Interesting section from the A-26 flight manual.


If this were more widely known, I doubt there would be the constant clamor for the A26.  While it's nice to see the people in this thread who actually want to use it as a bomber, most of the A26 enthusiasts want to fly it as a maxi-gun fighter, as was done in AW.

- oldman (my college advisor flew A26s)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: 5PointOh on June 05, 2013, 11:25:22 PM
Interesting section from the A-26 flight manual.

ack-ack
And see, this is why the P-61 would be multi purpose!!
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Eric19 on June 05, 2013, 11:34:41 PM
Wait. Is this frustration talking? If it makes you feel better you can go look stupid in 'my' thread, too.
arlo you came into my thread bashing the A26 you are the one that looks stupid
just because you do not want it does not means some other people want it
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Megalodon on June 05, 2013, 11:53:05 PM
Eric calm down  :x


Arlo .....Tu-2RShR 1947?



 That book is almost likie you wikie



Reach Around,
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Eric19 on June 06, 2013, 12:24:38 AM
Eric calm down  :x


Arlo .....Tu-2RShR 1947?



 That book is almost likie you wikie



Reach Around,
will try to megalodon just ruffled my feathers I guess
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 06, 2013, 02:38:10 AM

If this were more widely known, I doubt there would be the constant clamor for the A26.  While it's nice to see the people in this thread who actually want to use it as a bomber, most of the A26 enthusiasts want to fly it as a maxi-gun fighter, as was done in AW.

- oldman (my college advisor flew A26s)

well does the manual for the a20s mention that it can.  what about any existing bomber,  what would happen if you turn it upside down? heck you can drop bombs while upside down.

what was permissible to do in ww2 and what we can do in the game are totally different.


semp
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Wmaker on June 06, 2013, 02:49:43 AM
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/CAM00435_zpsfc28e0a7.jpg)

(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/CAM00424_zps38d63405.jpg)

Sorry Arlo but those kind of all-in-one books are rarely very good sources. The whole caption does not make much sense as it first says 1500kg internally and then mentions that the internal bomb load ranges from 9x100kg bombs to one 1000kg bomb. Also, just look at the pic on that next page, those nine FAB100s fill the whole bomb bay. How is a 1500kg bomb load going to fit in there?

Anyway, enough hijacking on my part...

Existing Tu-2 vs A-26 thread here: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,316230.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,316230.0.html)
One Tu-2 thread here: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,328373.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,328373.0.html)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: surfinn on June 06, 2013, 06:27:50 AM
Saw a a-26 at the Pensacola nas airshow in 2011 I think. Thought it was a a20 at first but its way meaner looking than a a20. I'm not sure I would like to see cobia get his hands on that air craft :lol
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: gyrene81 on June 06, 2013, 07:04:49 AM
well does the manual for the a20s mention that it can.  what about any existing bomber,  what would happen if you turn it upside down? heck you can drop bombs while upside down.

what was permissible to do in ww2 and what we can do in the game are totally different.


semp
anyone that want's to spend $20 for a dvd can find out what the pilot manuals say...
http://www.zenosflightshop.com/A_20_and_A_26_Bomber_DVD_with_free_B_26_DVD_p/a2026dvd.htm (http://www.zenosflightshop.com/A_20_and_A_26_Bomber_DVD_with_free_B_26_DVD_p/a2026dvd.htm)

Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: scott66 on June 06, 2013, 07:45:52 AM
+1  :aok
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 06, 2013, 08:06:09 AM
Arlo .....Tu-2RShR 1947?

 That book is almost likie you wikie

Reach Around,

The book covers the lifetime of the plane. The ord load does, as well.  :D
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 06, 2013, 08:12:46 AM
Sorry Arlo but those kind of all-in-one books are rarely very good sources. The whole caption does not make much sense as it first says 1500kg internally and then mentions that the internal bomb load ranges from 9x100kg bombs to one 1000kg bomb. Also, just look at the pic on that next page, those nine FAB100s fill the whole bomb bay. How is a 1500kg bomb load going to fit in there?

Likely because there were bomb sizes between the two illustrated.

Existing Tu-2 vs A-26 thread here: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,316230.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,316230.0.html)
One Tu-2 thread here: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,328373.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,328373.0.html)

Good threads with more info making the Tu-2/A-26 comparison. More and more, it seems
a 'hands down winner' claim holds no water.  :)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Rich46yo on June 06, 2013, 08:35:38 AM
USAF generally doesnt like stunts pulled with any of their airplanes. Most of all their heavier bombers and attacks airplanes. There is no doubt however the A26 was pretty maneuverable http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iayVNS20rc unless weighted down by ordinance. But you only have to look at the wings to see this plane was made for speed and B&Z attacks instead of pretty twists and turns. Accounts from its pilots rate the Invader very high in maneuverability.

It was the "K" model that saw service in 'Nam that was rated for 12,000 lb of ord. This was a pretty much rebuilt batch of 40 air frames plucked from the bone yard and given new engine, wings, and a lot of things. These were the famous "Nimrods" who hunted at night in S/E Asia.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 06, 2013, 10:24:27 AM
Are we seeing people arguing which plane should be added based on its performance vs another aircraft not even in the same category???    :bhead

Forget the A26, move on.  There are many other bombers and attack aircraft that were more prominent in WWII that are ahead in the list. FWIW, both the SB-2 and Tu-2 will be added before the A26.  Get over it.  The A20 will get a remodel prior to the A26 being added as well.   ;)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Eric19 on June 06, 2013, 11:22:41 AM
 chances are that when they remodel the B26 they'll add the A26 since they are very close airframe wise
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Wmaker on June 06, 2013, 12:07:02 PM
Good threads with more info making the Tu-2/A-26 comparison. More and more, it seems
a 'hands down winner' claim holds no water.  :)

I didn't say anything about which wins what or doesn't. Just pointed out that over 8000lbs bombload claim was nonsense and very very easy to spot nonsense at that.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 06, 2013, 12:27:45 PM
anyone that want's to spend $20 for a dvd can find out what the pilot manuals say...
http://www.zenosflightshop.com/A_20_and_A_26_Bomber_DVD_with_free_B_26_DVD_p/a2026dvd.htm (http://www.zenosflightshop.com/A_20_and_A_26_Bomber_DVD_with_free_B_26_DVD_p/a2026dvd.htm)



With a little searching, these manuals can be found for free.

ack-ack
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 06, 2013, 12:32:17 PM
chances are that when they remodel the B26 they'll add the A26 since they are very close airframe wise

B-26 and the A-26 are not similar in design.

B-26 Marauder
(http://greenairdesigns.com/ejcgallery/albums/userpics/10002/b26_marauder_3v.jpg)

A-26 Invader
(http://greenairdesigns.com/ejcgallery/albums/userpics/10002/a26invader_3v.jpg)


ack-ack
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 06, 2013, 12:32:55 PM
Good threads with more info making the Tu-2/A-26 comparison. More and more, it seems
a 'hands down winner' claim holds no water.  :)

faster, can carry more bombs internally and has better defensive armament.  which part did I miss?  even the threads you linked to, all mention the vader having an advantage.

semp
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 06, 2013, 01:06:31 PM
I didn't say anything about which wins what or doesn't. Just pointed out that over 8000lbs bombload claim was nonsense and
very very easy to spot nonsense at that.

The 'better is better' argument, which preceded your observation, was all about such and that's what
started the statistical comparing (or in some cases, misunderstanding or ignoring).

Sources vary and there's probably a very good reason why (model type variation):

bomb load 5,000 lb (later 6,615 lb)

http://ww2total.com/WW2/Weapons/War-Planes/Bomber-Planes/Russian/Tupolev-Tu2/Tu-2.htm

Technical data on the Tupolev 'Type 103V'

Up to 6,613 lb of disposable stores carried in a lower-fuselage weapons bay rated at 6,613 lb. General disposables load consisted of:

    1 × 2,204 lb bomb, or
    2 × 1,102 lb bombs, or
    up to 3 × 2,204 lb bombs

Technical data on the Tupolev Tu-2S

Up to 8,818 lb of disposable stores carried in a lower-fuselage weapons bay rated at 8,818 lb. General disposables load consisted of:

    4 × 2,204 lb FAB-1000 bomb, or
    8 × 1,102 lb FAB-500 bombs

Tupolev Tu-2S    This version was an upgrade from the Tu-2. It had an increased bombload, uprated engines, and the
twin 0.3 inch (7,62 mm) ShKAS guns in the dorsaland ventral positions were replaced by single 0.50 inch (12,7 mm) Beresin UBT guns.

http://ww2warbirds.net/ww2htmls/tupotu2.html

Even if we take the lesser of the two here, both planes carried the same approximate load at the same approximate speed for the
same approximate distance it shoots the A-26 overall superiority argument you're not a part of in the foot.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 06, 2013, 01:12:02 PM
faster, can carry more bombs internally and has better defensive armament.  which part did I miss?  even the threads you linked to, all mention the vader having an advantage.

semp

No, actually. You're missing a lot.  :)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: gyrene81 on June 06, 2013, 01:14:03 PM
With a little searching, these manuals can be found for free.

ack-ack
did that, nada. not even my normal manual sources have any "freebie" versions.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 06, 2013, 01:22:41 PM
hey arlo why dont you post links to wowp for that bomber too.  you are running out of expert sites.


semp
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 06, 2013, 01:29:43 PM
did that, nada. not even my normal manual sources have any "freebie" versions.

Here is a site where they have a number of manuals you can download for free. 

http://www.scribd.com/collections/3744925/WW2-U-S-Army-Air-Force-U-S-Navy-Aviation-Manuals-1939-1945

ack-ack
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 06, 2013, 01:29:48 PM
hey arlo why dont you post links to wowp for that bomber too.  you are running out of expert sites.


semp

You mean if you read it there you could understand it better? Meh, this is my community, you
can have that one.  :)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 06, 2013, 01:30:51 PM
Here is a site where they have a number of manuals you can download for free. 

http://www.scribd.com/collections/3744925/WW2-U-S-Army-Air-Force-U-S-Navy-Aviation-Manuals-1939-1945

ack-ack

(1940) AN 01-40AL-2 A-20 Boston Erection and Maintenance Manual

That's just nasty, man.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: gyrene81 on June 06, 2013, 01:32:23 PM
Here is a site where they have a number of manuals you can download for free. 

http://www.scribd.com/collections/3744925/WW2-U-S-Army-Air-Force-U-S-Navy-Aviation-Manuals-1939-1945

ack-ack
notice no pilot handbook for the a-26, just a tech manual for maintenance. i looked there before...
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 06, 2013, 01:46:35 PM
You mean if you read it there you could understand it better? Meh, this is my community, you
can have that one.  :)

both links you posted are to unreliable sources.  even wikipedia has a link so you can verify the info posted.  not saying the info is wrong, but you are linking and try to pass it as an expert source.




semp

Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 06, 2013, 01:50:08 PM
both links you posted are to unreliable sources.  even wikipedia has a link so you can verify the info posted.  not saying the info is wrong, but you are linking and try to pass it as an expert source.

semp


And I appreciate the better sources you aren't posting every bit as much as the
confusion you're having over the sources you apparently don't like that are being
posted by me. My .... bad, eh?  :)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 06, 2013, 02:23:00 PM
And I appreciate the better sources you aren't posting every bit as much as the
confusion you're having over the sources you apparently don't like that are being
posted by me. My .... bad, eh?  :)

I am posting from your sources  :rofl :rofl :rofl.


semp
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 06, 2013, 02:26:13 PM
I am posting from your sources  :rofl :rofl :rofl.


semp

And getting it wrong. (Or reinterpreting to make a 'better argument.') :D

Seriously, dude. Go back, read carefully. Quote it, if you have to. THEN make the assertion.

You're as bad as Eric19.  ;)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Eric19 on June 06, 2013, 03:06:20 PM
And getting it wrong. (Or reinterpreting to make a 'better argument.') :D

Seriously, dude. Go back, read carefully. Quote it, if you have to. THEN make the assertion.

You're as bad as Eric19.  ;)
arlo I had respect for you until now

your no better than manawar

P.S. you are a condecending jerk sometimes always think your better than everyone else, you know what is better for AH than everyone else here in the community
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 06, 2013, 03:15:45 PM
arlo I had respect for you until now

your no better than manawar

Well you oughta have respect for Man-o-war.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Manowar1920.jpg)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_o%27_War

P.S. you are a condecending jerk sometimes always think your better than everyone else, you know what is better for AH than everyone else here in the community

No, not really. I think a lot of players in the community share my vision.  :)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Eric19 on June 06, 2013, 03:27:02 PM
see right there your being a smart arse again
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 06, 2013, 03:29:05 PM
see right there your being a smart donut again

I dunno, Eric. I like you in spite of both your math and sense of humor challenges.

 :D
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: gyrene81 on June 06, 2013, 03:34:54 PM
see right there your being a smart donut again
(http://www.cringely.com/wp-content/uploads/homer-donut-213x300.jpg)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Eric19 on June 06, 2013, 03:36:32 PM
it changed wtf lol that funny right there
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: gyrene81 on June 06, 2013, 03:38:27 PM
this one is for Arlo...for his "special day"

(http://www.chud.com/articles/content_images/NICK/DUMBADAY/ryanbean.jpg)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 06, 2013, 04:02:09 PM
this one is for Arlo...for his "special day"

(http://www.chud.com/articles/content_images/NICK/DUMBADAY/ryanbean.jpg)

How many ounces of dumphole biscuits for $4.99? I'm making a shopping list
for an Eric, Semp, Megalodon 'Let's be friends in spite of our Wishlist
forum differences' dinner.

 :)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 06, 2013, 04:38:55 PM
well arlo, please contradict me about a26 being faster, having more internal ord capacity (think about why this is important) and better defensive capabilities.

hey and please order another box you already ate the first one.


semp
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Eric19 on June 06, 2013, 05:04:38 PM
why do you have to be such an a-hole arlo what the heck did I ever do to you??
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: gyrene81 on June 06, 2013, 05:14:48 PM
why do you have to be such an a-hole arlo what the heck did I ever do to you??
i'm much worse than Arlo...just not as smug about it   :D

(http://i.qkme.me/35g0sj.jpg)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 06, 2013, 05:29:08 PM
well arlo, please contradict me about a26 being faster, having more internal ord capacity (think about why this is important) and better defensive capabilities.

Don't focus on internal load. Total load is what matters. Do you only fly with internal load in the MA?

Since the sources pretty much have them equal with the exception of strafing, and even then it depends,
I think it's pretty safe to say a superiority foot-stomp fest isn't anything but a clown-show.  :D
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 06, 2013, 05:34:27 PM
why do you have to be such an a-hole arlo what the heck did I ever do to you??

Oh Jeebus. Does yellow make you sad, as well?  :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtSYZi7zd7A
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: gyrene81 on June 06, 2013, 05:45:14 PM
if the argument is bomb load, the tupolev tu-2s is the winner at between 8300lbs and 8818lbs (combind internal and external stores) vs the a-26b/c at 6000lbs (4000lbs internal and 2000lbs on the wings).

speed goes to the a26b/c. defensive armament goes to the a-26b/c even though the tu-2s had 2 wing mounted 20mm cannons.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Eric19 on June 06, 2013, 05:48:30 PM
Oh Jeebus. Does yellow make you sad, as well?  :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtSYZi7zd7A
wtf is that suppose to mean????
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 06, 2013, 06:08:30 PM
if the argument is bomb load, the tupolev tu-2s is the winner at between 8300lbs and 8818lbs (combind internal and external stores) vs the a-26b/c at 6000lbs (4000lbs internal and 2000lbs on the wings).

speed goes to the a26b/c. defensive armament goes to the a-26b/c even though the tu-2s had 2 wing mounted 20mm cannons.

I don't know if the defensive guns are better in the A-26 than in the Tu-2, frankly, they seem to be just about the same in that regards, especially when comparing the Tu-2S with the A-26B.

ack-ack
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 06, 2013, 06:17:18 PM
wtf is that suppose to mean????

It means grow a layer of skin. You have not been beat on, kid.  :lol
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Eric19 on June 06, 2013, 06:28:23 PM
you make no sense...........but okay I'm done talking to people who won't give me a straight answer  :confused:
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 06, 2013, 06:52:39 PM
you make no sense...........but okay I'm done talking to people who won't give me a straight answer  :confused:

The answer was straight. You just didn't understand it. I've grown used to that.

Cheer up, kid. Maybe this'll help (a pic's worth 1k words, yaknow):


(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/Aircraft_of_Aces_High_II_003a2_zps763f9b60.png)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/Aircraft_of_Aces_High_II_003b2_zps34cf72ff.png)
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: guncrasher on June 06, 2013, 08:55:01 PM
Don't focus on internal load. Total load is what matters. Do you only fly with internal load in the MA?

Since the sources pretty much have them equal with the exception of strafing, and even then it depends,
I think it's pretty safe to say a superiority foot-stomp fest isn't anything but a clown-show.  :D



well won't external bombs create a bit more drag.


Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: Arlo on June 06, 2013, 09:35:51 PM

well won't external bombs create a bit more drag.


On both planes. Drop em and you're clean .... again, on both.

Ord weight also has an effect .... on both.
Title: Re: A26 Invader anyone???
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 06, 2013, 09:50:59 PM
The answer was straight. You just didn't understand it. I've grown used to that.

Cheer up, kid. Maybe this'll help (a pic's worth 1k words, yaknow):


(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/Aircraft_of_Aces_High_II_003a2_zps763f9b60.png)
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/Aircraft_of_Aces_High_II_003b2_zps34cf72ff.png)

BRAVO!!!!   :cheers:

 :D