Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: ABDCWOT on June 26, 2013, 11:29:16 AM
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A little disappointed.
(http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad134/abdc916/nra.jpg) (http://s929.photobucket.com/user/abdc916/media/nra.jpg.html)
The tag says Made in China.
-ab
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Well that's not cool
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A little disappointed.
(http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad134/abdc916/nra.jpg) (http://s929.photobucket.com/user/abdc916/media/nra.jpg.html)
The tag says Made in China.
-ab
that's cause the hat only cost them $2 to get made...if it was american made it would cost $30 plus $14.95 each for shipping and handling.
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that's cause the hat only cost them $2 to get made...if it was american made it would cost $30 plus $14.95 each for shipping and handling.
I can't understand why American children won't do them for 50c a day. Lazy, spoiled bustards, that's what they are! There'd be no premature pregnancies or teenage drug/alcohol problems if the American children worked as hard for as little as their Chinese siblings. They wouldn't have neither the time, pep nor money for such nonsense... :old:
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I can't understand why American children won't do them for 50c a day. Lazy, spoiled bustards, that's what they are! There'd be no premature pregnancies or teenage drug/alcohol problems if the American children worked as hard for as little as their Chinese siblings. They wouldn't have neither the time, pep nor money for such nonsense... :old:
blame the unions...and corporate greed...i'm just a messenger.
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blame the unions...and corporate greed...
and those pesky child labor laws
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nah, just the $30/hour wages union workers get for pushing buttons on machines...
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and those pesky child labor laws
I guess that's one of the perks of owning your own business. I started cleaning my dad's machine shop when I was 11 years old for $10 a week
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I guess that's one of the perks of owning your own business. I started cleaning my dad's machine shop when I was 11 years old for $10 a week
I did what m parents asked or my arse got whooped :old:
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Getting rid of the unions would only cause more outsourcing.
As for corporate greed that's what happens if business is deregulated totally.
In Australia its getting worse.
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The NRA is a joke. I am the 2nd amendment.
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Would you not buy a Benelli Shotgun because it is not made in the USA? Many fine and inexpensive guns are made around the world. The NRA is an organization dedicated to protect the rights of US Citizens to keep and bear arms. It does not promote only US made items.
Go around you house now and throw out all the Items not totally made in the USA including perhaps your car and electronics. :bolt:
The NRA is a joke. I am the 2nd amendment.
The Time and Money the NRA has spent in court fighting unconstitutional laws is no joke.
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Would you not buy a Benelli Shotgun because it is not made in the USA? Many fine and inexpensive guns are made around the world. The NRA is an organization dedicated to protect the rights of US Citizens to keep and bear arms. It does not promote only US made items.
name one gun made in china that you would want to fire more than once... :D
the idea is that the nra is an american organization of and for american citizens lobbying for american rights...to send members who pay an annual fee in american dollars anything made anywhere but america, kinda shows a lack of american patriotic ideals. nobody in italy, china, japan, or anywhere else has a stake in our constitution, unless they want to become citizens.
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name one gun made in china that you would want to fire more than once... :D
the idea is that the nra is an american organization of and for american citizens lobbying for american rights...to send members who pay an annual fee in american dollars anything made anywhere but america, kinda shows a lack of american patriotic ideals. nobody in italy, china, japan, or anywhere else has a stake in our constitution, unless they want to become citizens.
So the NRA can not purchase items from China but many US citizens own or buy Chinese made items every day. If you have no foreign items in your possession then you may stand on that principle if you wish. How many have China made smart phones in thier pocket?
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So the NRA can not purchase items from China but many US citizens own or buy Chinese made items every day. If you have no foreign items in your possession then you may stand on that principle if you wish. How many have China made smart phones in thier pocket?
come on Slate, is it really that difficult of a concept to grasp? we buy chinese made goods either by choice or because there is no better alternative. an organization representing american rights should be "representing america", even with their free gifts, which in this case could easily have been purchased from an american manufacturer.
it's bad enough we're getting bought out by japan and china as it is...you ever wonder how long it's going to take before we are forced to learn their language in order to get a job at any of their u.s. operations?
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I know the concept but don't like hypocrites that expect an organization to act differently then themselves. I don't like it anymore than you that trade with china is unbalanced in thier favor. China is very resistant to foreign items. I choose US made items as much as possible. All my Cars are GM made although many of the parts are outsourced from other countries.
Buy a hat from the NRA store and you can choose the US made ones. Get a free one and well you get what you pay for.
PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
Your dedication to the preservation of our rights and freedoms has inspired us to design a new hat as unique as you are. Masterfully embroidered on the front panel is our popular and highly detailed seven color shield. Your member level is fully embroidered on the left side with the corresponding color matching brim. Adjustable leather backstrap secured with a custom brass closure embossed with the NRA logo.This classy styled hat is made to the highest standards possible which is what you expect when you reach this level of membership.
(http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv15/d0nwaters/usa_zpsad532530.jpg) (http://s665.photobucket.com/user/d0nwaters/media/usa_zpsad532530.jpg.html)
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we are forced to learn their language in order to get a job at any of their u.s. operations?
Would be about time! :t English has been dominating all international affairs since the end of Middle Age, although it is not dominant by the number of people using it as their native tongue. Heck, they're even planning to change English as the primary teaching and studying langue in Finnish universities. Think about a professor giving a lecture even he doesn't fully understand...
I've recently read some good news about choosing where their products are being made in: Both a Finnish and an American company have brought their manufacturing back home, because they calculated they'd save money by doing that. No, they don't use illegal underaged emigrants as workers. They just found out that although labour costs are higher, local manufacturing is more flexible to changes in demand, gets improvement ideas from the workers, simplifies RMA processes among other money saving elements. The American company makes cheap heaters, the Finnish one retro bicycles.
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name one gun made in china that you would want to fire more than once... :D
I can name several off the top of my head.
Chinese Type 53 Mosin Nagant.
Chinese Norinco SKS
Chinese Norinco AK-47
Chinese Mauser C96
Sure they aren't the same quality as an American or European built firearm, but they are cheap and reliable, and in the case of the Chinese Mosin that I own, just as accurate as it's Russian built brother. You'll also notice a pattern here, the Chinese aren't much for original designs, but give them a design and they will build it cheaper and faster then the original. Which is why outsourcing production is not the nasty evil thing so many Americans make it out to be... more on that later.
Also.. guess who invented gunpowder.
the idea is that the nra is an american organization of and for american citizens lobbying for american rights...to send members who pay an annual fee in american dollars anything made anywhere but america, kinda shows a lack of american patriotic ideals. nobody in italy, china, japan, or anywhere else has a stake in our constitution, unless they want to become citizens.
Guess what, the NRA has also does frequent gun giveaways as fundraisers. Now I suppose you think it's horrible that some of the guns they've given away are things like Glocks (Austrian) XDs (Croatian) and H&Ks (German). Supporting the Bill of Rights, and specifically the 2nd has nothing to do with where a product is made, but the right to keep and use said product.
Everyone with their phony outrage at chinese products and outsourcing just makes me :rolleyes: . Guess what, we live in a world with a global economy now. Americans love it because it means cheap products. China loves it because it's supports their booming economy. It's a win win. And don't tell me otherwise with some sob story about you or a friend, uncle whatever who lost their job to outsourcing, they lost their job... boo hoo... go find a better job
Back to outsourcing; Outsourcing just means fewer minimum wage jobs in the US and more high paying jobs. The economics of it go like this: The Acme company makes a real popular widget, they are using American labor to produce it, so it's relatively expensive and they don't sell many. Soon they realize they could have a much better profit margin AND a cheaper MSRP if they manufactured in China. So they send the manufacturing to China, now they are making and selling 10 times more widgets then ever before, at a cheaper price for the consumer. This means they are now making great profits, the company quadruples in size, and they are flush with capital to invest in R&D and prototype of the new and improved Ultra-Widget-Plus. Now because R&D requires more then just a body with a heartbeat they hire American engineers and designers and researchers and marketers, high paying skilled jobs that never would have existed if didn't have the capital they got from outsourcing the non-skilled minimum wage manufacturing jobs. Now the Acme company has more high paying skilled jobs, then it had minimum wage jobs before they outsourced.
The perfect real world example of this is Apple (even though I'm not a fanboy). Apple employs thousands of highly paid American designers, engineers, developers, programmers, marketers etc.. those high paying jobs would not exist if Apple didn't use Chinese labor for the mindless manufacturing. If Apple where made in the USA we would not have the Ipad, Ipod or Ianything.
For another nail in the coffin of the ridiculous "Stealing American Jobs" argument, just let me ask a hypothetical question. If everything in every store in the USA that is made in China today, where suddenly changed and produced entirely domestic, would there be enough American workers willing to work for minimum wage to keep those products on the self? And would the consumer be willing to pay 4-5 times as much for all those products?
All these hypocrites decrying cheap Chinese products, while reaping the benefits of them every day... :rolleyes: I buy what I want/need without worrying too much about country of origin. I am a helicopter mechanic, 90% of my work tools are American made Snap-On, Mac or Matco because I want the best for my professional work and they are the best. But my home tool kit is tawainese made Blue-Point, and I even own more then a few cheap-a%# Harbor Freight tools for automotive work at home.
Back on topic, I got the same hat from the NRA, I've worn it a few times, it's a decent hat for a freebie, better quality then some other free hats I've gotten. Funny thing is my Father has been an NRA member longer then I have and he said he's never gotten one. :headscratch:
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Getting rid of the unions would only cause more outsourcing.
As for corporate greed that's what happens if business is deregulated totally.
In Australia its getting worse.
you can fight it.
you will loose.
you can compete.
you may survive.
You can buy Australian.
You will pay more.
Not everyone is willing to support your bussines when china offers a similar product for less.
:bolt:
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The NRA is a joke. I am the 2nd amendment.
Then you've had a tough year :D
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I can name several off the top of my head.
Chinese Type 53 Mosin Nagant.
Chinese Norinco SKS
Chinese Norinco AK-47
Chinese Mauser C96
Sure they aren't the same quality as an American or European built firearm, but they are cheap and reliable, and in the case of the Chinese Mosin that I own, just as accurate as it's Russian built brother. You'll also notice a pattern here, the Chinese aren't much for original designs, but give them a design and they will build it cheaper and faster then the original. Which is why outsourcing production is not the nasty evil thing so many Americans make it out to be... more on that later.
you're brave. the quality of chinese steel is lower than post war japanese. i've seen the effects of long term use on chinese made weapons, they're as disposble as everything else made in china.
Everyone with their phony outrage at chinese products and outsourcing just makes me :rolleyes: . Guess what, we live in a world with a global economy now. Americans love it because it means cheap products. China loves it because it's supports their booming economy. It's a win win. And don't tell me otherwise with some sob story about you or a friend, uncle whatever who lost their job to outsourcing, they lost their job... boo hoo... go find a better job
it's not phony, the concern and outrage are genuine, especially for all of the people who lost their jobs with no other job prospects to replace the positions that were outsourced. the numbers will continue to go up too. i don't know where you got the idea that americans love cheap products. "cheap" was a standard forced on the american people from out of control inflation and repeated economic recessions. we have just learned to accept the "disposable products" mentality that started with cheap japanese imports. we sacrificed quality for quantity. that was about the time that people started scruitinizing unions and the wages of union workers.
Back to outsourcing; Outsourcing just means fewer minimum wage jobs in the US and more high paying jobs.
that's absolute b.s. it really means fewer minimum wage opportunities for people to get entry level experience and far fewer high paying jobs because of corporate middle management cuts and increases in automation processes replacing 10 workers for every instance. even the automobile industry admits that.
The perfect real world example of this is Apple (even though I'm not a fanboy). Apple employs thousands of highly paid American designers, engineers, developers, programmers, marketers etc.. those high paying jobs would not exist if Apple didn't use Chinese labor for the mindless manufacturing. If Apple where made in the USA we would not have the Ipad, Ipod or Ianything.p
you might want to re-examine your figures...the majority of apple employees are at the retail and customer service levels, not "highly paid".
For another nail in the coffin of the ridiculous "Stealing American Jobs" argument, just let me ask a hypothetical question. If everything in every store in the USA that is made in China today, where suddenly changed and produced entirely domestic, would there be enough American workers willing to work for minimum wage to keep those products on the self? And would the consumer be willing to pay 4-5 times as much for all those products?
if the income levels were aligned with the increased costs and the quality was in line with the costs, you might be surprised. but stuff doesn't get produced in the u.s. at the minimum wage level, it's generally at the inflated union wage level which is 4 times higher.
just like you are willing to pay extra for those tool brands for your professional work, there are things that people are willing to pay additional for (when they can afford it) that are made in the usa because they are wanting better quality. if the quality isn't significant, they will complain and seek an alternative.
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if the income levels were aligned with the increased costs and the quality was in line with the costs, you might be surprised. but stuff doesn't get produced in the u.s. at the minimum wage level, it's generally at the inflated union wage level which is 4 times higher.
Gonna have to call bs on all this union bashing.. very very few members of the American workforce are unionized any longer..
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm
"In 2012, the union membership rate--the percent of wage and salary workers who were
members of a union--was 11.3 percent, down from 11.8 percent in 2011, the U.S. Bureau
of Labor Statistics reported today."
The majority of the unionized labor force is not private.. Percentage of unionized labor has been dropping for some 30years..
One might argue at one point the auto unions held too much power.. I would agree on some points.. But the overall failure of the US auto industry rest with the upper management replacing quality products with higher corporate profits..
Also, the argument that the Japanese auto product was more quantity than quality is not true.. Their quality far outpaced the American product..
I'm a union member and very proud of it. I get paid extremely well for pushing buttons and turning switches.. Heck, I even know how to read a rotameter. But even though I am a member, I am paid because of what I know about my job, not b/c some union told my management he must allow me to work..
I like the 'all boats are lifted by a rising tide' argument myself.. If all our stuff was suddenly produced in the US, even by higher paid union members, it would not mean the failure of the economy.. Higher wages equal more disposable income to spend on more expensive products...
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opps
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Then you've had a tough year :D
Actually, it's been quite good, at least for my contributions to the cause.
In January and March I participated in two public rallies, one in Martinsburg WV to protest Senator Joe Manchin, the other in Charles Town, WV to protest a WV Delegate who had openly said he would vote against any state bills or laws that were pro-2nd. Each rally had over a hundred people.
At the end of the WV legislative session, WV passed 5 awesome pro-gun bills. Including making illegal any confiscation attempt by Federal, State or local authorities during a state of emergency or any other time. It also forced all local authorities like Charleston and Martinsburg to lift city gun laws like bans in parks and other public places and removing waiting periods for handguns. (only places in the state that had them).
You see, this was all done through a state wide grass roots organization with less than 900 members. Members that came out and decided to hit the streets to make change happen. It also forced the Senator (who is NRA endorsed mind you :lol) to have to run commercials that claims he is still a pro-2nd senator. He isn't even up for re-lection! He is running scared.
As Americans it appears that we have developed a problem where we like to throw money at things to fix them instead of lifting up our own sleeves and putting in work, the NRA is one of them. The NRA operates a bend but don't break style defense that isn't helping the situation. Yes, they have spent a lot of time and your money in court fighting. But nothing towards in reversing and going on the offense.
In regards to Chinese firearms, I own 5 Chinese SKS rifles and one T-53. Great rifles I would trust my life with.
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Actually, it's been quite good, at least for my contributions to the cause.
In January and March I participated in two public rallies, one in Martinsburg WV to protest Senator Joe Manchin, the other in Charles Town, WV to protest a WV Delegate who had openly said he would vote against any state bills or laws that were pro-2nd. Each rally had over a hundred people.
At the end of the WV legislative session, WV passed 5 awesome pro-gun bills. Including making illegal any confiscation attempt by Federal, State or local authorities during a state of emergency or any other time. It also forced all local authorities like Charleston and Martinsburg to lift city gun laws like bans in parks and other public places and removing waiting periods for handguns. (only places in the state that had them).
You see, this was all done through a state wide grass roots organization with less than 900 members. Members that came out and decided to hit the streets to make change happen. It also forced the Senator (who is NRA endorsed mind you :lol) to have to run commercials that claims he is still a pro-2nd senator. He isn't even up for re-lection! He is running scared.
As Americans it appears that we have developed a problem where we like to throw money at things to fix them instead of lifting up our own sleeves and putting in work, the NRA is one of them. The NRA operates a bend but don't break style defense that isn't helping the situation. Yes, they have spent a lot of time and your money in court fighting. But nothing towards in reversing and going on the offense.
In regards to Chinese firearms, I own 5 Chinese SKS rifles and one T-53. Great rifles I would trust my life with.
I had to laugh at that one. if only more people were active we would be a better country.
semp
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Gonna have to call bs on all this union bashing.. very very few members of the American workforce are unionized any longer..
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm
"In 2012, the union membership rate--the percent of wage and salary workers who were
members of a union--was 11.3 percent, down from 11.8 percent in 2011, the U.S. Bureau
of Labor Statistics reported today."
my father was union in the 70s. at the time, federal minimum wage was $3.65/hr and entry level union wage was somewhere in the range of $6.25/hr (to push a broom), my dad made $12.50/hr as a welder and paid nearly $400/yr in dues. at the time unions still protected workers and helped maintain jobs that would have been turned out decades before outsourcing became the corporate mantra. the problem is unions didn't keep up with manufacturing competition on the international market. every major manufacturing industry in the u.s. was unionized and it got too expensive for u.s. companies with unions to compete against foreign competition and the only way to de-unionize a company is to close it down. in the grand scheme of things and the international economic market, unions have simply outlived their usefulness.
The majority of the unionized labor force is not private.. Percentage of unionized labor has been dropping for some 30years..
the percentage has been declining since 1975 according to a couple of studies. but i kinda think they were anti-union biased studies, similar to the marijuana studies that have been conducted.
Also, the argument that the Japanese auto product was more quantity than quality is not true.. Their quality far outpaced the American product..
in certain consumer product categories, at one point in time that was true. did you ever hear about the "inferior japanese" steel that got used here in the u.s. at one time? it was during the time that u.s. steel mills were starting to close down and it caused a big stink...for about a year. then so much cheap steel was imported that people simply forgot about it. very much like the clothing industry. at a time when american made dress shirts cost $10 a piece, you could buy a dress shirt made in the far east for $3 and even though it wouldn't last as long as the american made shirt, they were cheap enough that replacing them became the "normal thing to do". now the prices of imported clothing is in some cases higher than u.s. made yet the quality is still crap.
I'm a union member and very proud of it. I get paid extremely well for pushing buttons and turning switches.. Heck, I even know how to read a rotameter. But even though I am a member, I am paid because of what I know about my job, not b/c some union told my management he must allow me to work..
you wouldn't get paid as much if you weren't union, and depending on the job you might have to compete with better educated people for the job. union guarantees you got your job until you quit or do something serious to get fired over. non-union you could lose you job if your boss doesn't get laid by his wife, and there is nothing you can do about it. a union welder can earn $20-$30/hr while non union may earn $13-$26/hr for the same skills and experience.
I like the 'all boats are lifted by a rising tide' argument myself.. If all our stuff was suddenly produced in the US, even by higher paid union members, it would not mean the failure of the economy.. Higher wages equal more disposable income to spend on more expensive products...
not even close. higher wages has a similar effect as higher fuel prices. higher wages means higher cost of manufacturing which in turn increases consumer cost and the average blue collar consumer doesn't make union wages.
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I had to laugh at that one. if only more people were active we would be a better country.
semp
I activly enjoy laying down :old:
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my father was union in the 70s. at the time, federal minimum wage was $3.65/hr and entry level union wage was somewhere in the range of $6.25/hr (to push a broom), my dad made $12.50/hr as a welder and paid nearly $400/yr in dues. at the time unions still protected workers and helped maintain jobs that would have been turned out decades before outsourcing became the corporate mantra. the problem is unions didn't keep up with manufacturing competition on the international market. every major manufacturing industry in the u.s. was unionized and it got too expensive for u.s. companies with unions to compete against foreign competition and the only way to de-unionize a company is to close it down. in the grand scheme of things and the international economic market, unions have simply outlived their usefulness.
the percentage has been declining since 1975 according to a couple of studies. but i kinda think they were anti-union biased studies, similar to the marijuana studies that have been conducted.
in certain consumer product categories, at one point in time that was true. did you ever hear about the "inferior japanese" steel that got used here in the u.s. at one time? it was during the time that u.s. steel mills were starting to close down and it caused a big stink...for about a year. then so much cheap steel was imported that people simply forgot about it. very much like the clothing industry. at a time when american made dress shirts cost $10 a piece, you could buy a dress shirt made in the far east for $3 and even though it wouldn't last as long as the american made shirt, they were cheap enough that replacing them became the "normal thing to do". now the prices of imported clothing is in some cases higher than u.s. made yet the quality is still crap.
you wouldn't get paid as much if you weren't union, and depending on the job you might have to compete with better educated people for the job. union guarantees you got your job until you quit or do something serious to get fired over. non-union you could lose you job if your boss doesn't get laid by his wife, and there is nothing you can do about it. a union welder can earn $20-$30/hr while non union may earn $13-$26/hr for the same skills and experience.
not even close. higher wages has a similar effect as higher fuel prices. higher wages means higher cost of manufacturing which in turn increases consumer cost and the average blue collar consumer doesn't make union wages.
when I started working my junior year in 1983, I made 3.35 an hour and that was the federal rate since 1981. in the 70's it was from 1.45 in 1970 to 2.90 in 1979.
the company that I work for used to be known as kaiser steel. back in the 70's a 20 year old with no education would make about 40k to 50k a year. the company closed it's doors in 1983. kaiser employees had agreed to it to a lower pay and giving up a couple of holidays. the parent union refused to allow the local chapter to negotiate as a result 10,000 people lost their jobs. they allowed a company to shut down its doors rather than set a precedent. not like kaiser management did any better either.
unions were great for actually forcing employers to take care of employees. if we had never had unions you can always argue that most benefits we have today wouldnt exist. on the other hand unions' did get a bit greedy sometimes.
we dont have an union right now, we dont make 70's money but we do make a good living.
semp
edit: i forgot to add the reason foreign steel increased was due to a union strike that shut down almost every single steel mill in the us for months. before then there was very little steel being imported. then companies found out that even with shipping costs foreign steel was cheaper. go figure.
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when I started working my junior year in 1983, I made 3.35 an hour and that was the federal rate since 1981. in the 70's it was from 1.45 in 1970 to 2.90 in 1979.
the company that I work for used to be known as kaiser steel. back in the 70's a 20 year old with no education would make about 40k to 50k a year. the company closed it's doors in 1983. kaiser employees had agreed to it to a lower pay and giving up a couple of holidays. the parent union refused to allow the local chapter to negotiate as a result 10,000 people lost their jobs. they allowed a company to shut down its doors rather than set a precedent. not like kaiser management did any better either.
unions were great for actually forcing employers to take care of employees. if we had never had unions you can always argue that most benefits we have today wouldnt exist. on the other hand unions' did get a bit greedy sometimes.
we dont have an union right now, we dont make 70's money but we do make a good living.
semp
edit: i forgot to add the reason foreign steel increased was due to a union strike that shut down almost every single steel mill in the us for months. before then there was very little steel being imported. then companies found out that even with shipping costs foreign steel was cheaper. go figure.
damn, thanks for noticing and pointing out the error Semp. i was thinking about the last min wage job i had and just automatically put in the numbers, been about 35 years. did kaiser steel have anything to do with kaiser aluminum? i worked for the kaiser aluminum plant in louisiana for about a year, made decent money. i should have moved to a steel mill town...could have made a lot more money.
i remember bits and pieces of the steel workers unions going on strike, can't remember why they did it though.
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damn, thanks for noticing and pointing out the error Semp. i was thinking about the last min wage job i had and just automatically put in the numbers, been about 35 years. did kaiser steel have anything to do with kaiser aluminum? i worked for the kaiser aluminum plant in louisiana for about a year, made decent money. i should have moved to a steel mill town...could have made a lot more money.
i remember bits and pieces of the steel workers unions going on strike, can't remember why they did it though.
most likely it did, but I dont know for sure. as for the strike, I am not sure. it was in 1959 5 years before I was born :).
semp
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you wouldn't get paid as much if you weren't union, and depending on the job you might have to compete with better educated people for the job. union guarantees you got your job until you quit or do something serious to get fired over. non-union you could lose you job if your boss doesn't get laid by his wife, and there is nothing you can do about it. a union welder can earn $20-$30/hr while non union may earn $13-$26/hr for the same skills and experience.
Basically agree till that point.. This is the purest reason why unions have not lost their purpose..
My particular professional nitch in the workforce is on par pay wise with the industry non-union workers.. Some higher, some lower.. Being unionized does not afford me higher pay.. What it does afford me is protection from unjust management decisions.. In return our management has a unionized workforce that will not strike. We have yearly raises that usually reflect the increase in cost of living or changes in industry pay rates.. Overtime is awarded with extremely nice pay as it should be. After all, we work to live not live to work..
A fair balance can and should be achieved..
not even close. higher wages has a similar effect as higher fuel prices. higher wages means higher cost of manufacturing which in turn increases consumer cost and the average blue collar consumer doesn't make union wages.
You have to agree the reason outsourcing started was b/c corporations saw a higher net income potential? Outsourcing for a 'better' product was not the cause. I am simply making the point that in a hypothetical closed economy with a 100% unionized workforce the closed economy could still flourish..
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You have to agree the reason outsourcing started was b/c corporations saw a higher net income potential? Outsourcing for a 'better' product was not the cause. I am simply making the point that in a hypothetical closed economy with a 100% unionized workforce the closed economy could still flourish..
no it was money. that's why companies' customer's reps are in india and not the united states like it used to be. they laid off millions of employees because it came down to dollars and cents.
companies never try to make a point as a group when it comes to money. if they did they it would be against the law. remember the nfl when none of the teams signed up one of the best players a few years back? they paid millions of dollars as it was easily proved that they conspired to restrict free agents. just based on the fact that no team asked to sign up that specific player even though he was one of the best.
semp
semp
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Basically agree till that point.. This is the purest reason why unions have not lost their purpose..
My particular professional nitch in the workforce is on par pay wise with the industry non-union workers.. Some higher, some lower.. Being unionized does not afford me higher pay.. What it does afford me is protection from unjust management decisions.. In return our management has a unionized workforce that will not strike. We have yearly raises that usually reflect the increase in cost of living or changes in industry pay rates.. Overtime is awarded with extremely nice pay as it should be. After all, we work to live not live to work..
A fair balance can and should be achieved..
are you getting double time for ot and triple for holidays, or something like that? if your base pay is in line with non-union then you're on one of 2 ends of the spectrum...high demand or very low demand. i know some power plant union workers that are making way more money than their non-union counterparts. it's a coal plant, not nuke. and the power plant corporation wants to increase their rates due to "increased operating costs and increasing demand". the truth is the union was able to negotiate a really nice pay increase for their members and the power plant can't make as much of a profit for the shareholders. if they kicked the union out, they could lower operating costs dramatically but that will never happen.
i suppose a fair balance could be achieved, but it's highly unlikely.
You have to agree the reason outsourcing started was b/c corporations saw a higher net income potential? Outsourcing for a 'better' product was not the cause. I am simply making the point that in a hypothetical closed economy with a 100% unionized workforce the closed economy could still flourish..
well, ya, increased profit was always the target. the justifications given to the public were along the lines of "in order to remain competitive and keep costs down...blah, blah, blah". the bottom line was many corporations were able to trim the fat in their middle management and the bulk of their bottom end workforce and get what they considered "adequately competent" employees for pennies on the dollar by shipping jobs overseas and profits soared for a while. now in some businesses they are finding out that those overseas employees are affecting their domestic sales. nobody wants to deal with "bob" who barely speaks intelligible english and lives in delhi. and the outsourcing did nothing to lower domestic prices.
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are you getting double time for ot and triple for holidays, or something like that? if your base pay is in line with non-union then you're on one of 2 ends of the spectrum...high demand or very low demand. i know some power plant union workers that are making way more money than their non-union counterparts. it's a coal plant, not nuke. and the power plant corporation wants to increase their rates due to "increased operating costs and increasing demand". the truth is the union was able to negotiate a really nice pay increase for their members and the power plant can't make as much of a profit for the shareholders. if they kicked the union out, they could lower operating costs dramatically but that will never happen.
i suppose a fair balance could be achieved, but it's highly unlikely.
well, ya, increased profit was always the target. the justifications given to the public were along the lines of "in order to remain competitive and keep costs down...blah, blah, blah". the bottom line was many corporations were able to trim the fat in their middle management and the bulk of their bottom end workforce and get what they considered "adequately competent" employees for pennies on the dollar by shipping jobs overseas and profits soared for a while. now in some businesses they are finding out that those overseas employees are affecting their domestic sales. nobody wants to deal with "bob" who barely speaks intelligible english and lives in delhi. and the outsourcing did nothing to lower domestic prices.
I get paid 2 1/2times my normal wages if I work on any holiday. if I work more than 32 hours in a week that has a holiday' then my 4th (5th?) day it's over time pay at 1 1/2 times. anything over that is also overtime.
that is not due to regulations but most because our company pays it. we have no union so far.
semp
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I get paid 2 1/2times my normal wages if I work on any holiday. if I work more than 32 hours in a week that has a holiday' then my 4th (5th?) day it's over time pay at 1 1/2 times. anything over that is also overtime.
that is not due to regulations but most because our company pays it. we have no union so far.
semp
sounds like an awesome place to work. i'm salaried, they have my donut 24/7 365...and i have the electronic leash to prove it. :lol
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sounds like an awesome place to work. i'm salaried, they have my donut 24/7 365...and i have the electronic leash to prove it. :lol
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
I know the feeling. I worked for transamerica insurance company as a manager from 1985 to 1998. hated the calls on new years eve telling me not to get drunk because I was supposed to be at work next morning so we can do the financial reporting. I could never take vacation from the 25 of the month to the 5 of next month. so glad I am not working there anymore.
semp
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A little disappointed.
(http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad134/abdc916/nra.jpg) (http://s929.photobucket.com/user/abdc916/media/nra.jpg.html)
The tag says Made in China.
-ab
You cant buy a hat made in America anymore.
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are you getting double time for ot and triple for holidays, or something like that? if your base pay is in line with non-union then you're on one of 2 ends of the spectrum...high demand or very low demand. i know some power plant union workers that are making way more money than their non-union counterparts. it's a coal plant, not nuke. and the power plant corporation wants to increase their rates due to "increased operating costs and increasing demand". the truth is the union was able to negotiate a really nice pay increase for their members and the power plant can't make as much of a profit for the shareholders. if they kicked the union out, they could lower operating costs dramatically but that will never happen.
i suppose a fair balance could be achieved, but it's highly unlikely.
You can't simply blame a unionized coal plant with higher operating cost on the union.. I understand it is easy to do.. The way Coal plants have operated is changing and not because of the workforce. Coal plants are now having to spend huge amounts of working capital in order to lower their emissions. Scrubber installation in order to clean the plant's effluent is rather expensive. This is happening all over the country. It comes down to clean the effluent, shutdown, or risk being sued by a state that the business might not even have a footprint in.. Not the unionized worker's fault..
The nations electrical grid is indeed seeing a rising demand and has for decades. A demand that will not go away unless the doomsday scenario happens.. As a rule of a free economy, end user's rates will go up. That is certainly not a unionized worker's fault.
As far as you know some union workers making far more than their non-union counterparts in a power house, that is very subjective based on word of mouth and personally I find it highly unlikely unless the difference is based on the cost of living from one area to another.. Power production entities typically have a area they provide with little direct competition. I could understand a plant worker in say California making more than a counterpart in Mississippi for example..
Perhaps you are correct about kicking out the union and lower operating cost.. But operating a power house involves more 'cost' than just the hourly salary of the workers.. Employee turnover can become expensive in a environment that the worker has to be trained to operate. Sure, some jobs you can hire anyone off the street for, but to operate in a safe cost effective manner, you want the folk that are pushing buttons and turning switches to understand what they are doing.. Anyone can close a main breaker to the grid but it takes a trained operator to know not to close the breaker 180deg out of phase costing the power house millions from just turning a switch.. How do you ensure a trained workforce and limit employee turnover? You pay them...
I don't know if you know I'm a operator at a nook plant or just happened on the subject.. It really doesn't matter.. A fair balance is not highly unlikely and my workforce is the proof.. We have different pay rates for OT.. 1.5x, 2x, 2.5x.. Our pay is based on the industry in our region. All part of our general agreement to work.. And we do work, very professionally I will add..
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you're brave. the quality of chinese steel is lower than post war japanese. i've seen the effects of long term use on chinese made weapons, they're as disposble as everything else made in china.
Norinco's are fairly popular here, people treat em rough and never have any issues.
Also FWIW Remington rebadges russian Baikals for resale in the USA, and Howa (Japan) makes some of the Weatherby's.
Face it sonny, most of your nations production is outsourced offshore these days ;)
Oh and to rub salt in the wound... a lot of Savage rifles are made in Canada.
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Norinco's are fairly popular here, people treat em rough and never have any issues.
They are popular here in the States too.
I think people take a negative outlook on the Chinese Mil-Surp here in the states because of internet tales and rumors and overall some kind of cautiousness and hatred towards Chinese goods. I have met people who won't touch my rifles because of their association with the Vietnam conflict.
Truth is, the Chinese built more SKS than any other country and I have yet to come across one yet that was made poorly. If anything, the wood of the Chinese stock is it's worse quality.
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I had a baikal singleshot in .243 (very cheap single shot rifle), was at the range one day happily plugging away sub inch groups @ 100m. Guy next to me was swearing and cursing, trying to sight in an expensive Sako. He couldn't believe my rifle was outperforming his for less 1/10th the cost :D
The only fault I could find with the baikal was as it heated up it would spread vertically (it had a shotgun style loading mechanism).
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You cant buy a hat made in America anymore.
Sure you can... All of my Stetsons are made in the USA....
If you really want top shelf, buy a hat here:
http://www.knudsenhats.com/index.html (http://www.knudsenhats.com/index.html)
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Us Americans tend to be confused when it comes to trade. Way back in 1776 the Brits were forcing us to only trade with them. A big reason for the War of Independence was in fact the ability to trade with whom ever we wanted.
Fast forward to post-WW2 and we see the big problem. America dominated international trade. We should see that for what it was. We dominated because the rest of the industrialized world lay smoldering from thousands of bombs. America has historically thrived due to trade. It is our bread and butter.
boo