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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Slade on July 08, 2013, 10:22:29 AM

Title: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Slade on July 08, 2013, 10:22:29 AM
For you long time AH veterans, what would be the top 3 hardest to fly fighter planes and why?

Thanks.  :salute
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: olds442 on July 08, 2013, 10:35:13 AM
Any of the GVs... I've never have made them fly.
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Karnak on July 08, 2013, 11:02:32 AM
Me410: because its high wing loading and poor power to weight ratio make combat maneuvers difficult.  It is also a fairly large target while not being particularly fast.
P-40C: Weak guns coupled with poor performance across the board.
C.202, Hurricane Mk I, Spitfire Mk Ia: Weak guns coupled with lower echelon performance, except in the turn, and, in the Hurri and Spit's case, a gravity fed carburetor.
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Oldman731 on July 08, 2013, 11:21:32 AM
For you long time AH veterans, what would be the top 3 hardest to fly fighter planes and why?


Hummm....

Well, at the top (or bottom?) of the list would be the P40B-C and the P-39D, simply because their performance is so pathetic, even against their contemporary opponents.

Of the more modern planes, I think the FW-190A-8 is very hard to fly with success, unless you're simply blowing through furballs or attacking bombers.  It doesn't turn or climb well, it isn't terribly fast, so unless you are somehow gifted with an opportunity to use its impressive guns, you're going down.

I always thought that the P-38s and Corsairs were difficult to fly well because it took me so long to figure out how to use their flaps to best advantage.  Once that skill set is mastered, though, they're great planes.

Karnak is probably right about the 410, but I have trouble thinking of that as a fighter.

- oldman
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: LCADolby on July 08, 2013, 11:26:31 AM
3 most difficult fighters;

P40C - Slow acceleration, poor climb and turn rate
P40E -  "       "                           "             "
P40F -  "       "                           "             "
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Lusche on July 08, 2013, 12:33:03 PM
C.202, Hurricane Mk I, Spitfire Mk Ia: Weak guns coupled with lower echelon performance, except in the turn, and, in the Hurri and Spit's case, a gravity fed carburetor.

Unlike the P-40C and the P-39D, I find fighting and surviving in these planes relatively easy. The main problem is getting any kills in them, because every other green guy around is so mach faster than you, either disposing of your designated victim long before you ever reach him, or most graciously clearing your 12 while you are trying to hose down your enemy.
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Karnak on July 08, 2013, 12:38:09 PM
3 most difficult fighters;

P40C - Slow acceleration, poor climb and turn rate
P40E -  "       "                           "             "
P40F -  "       "                           "             "
Pretty sure the E and F would utterly dominate an Me410 that tried to fight instead of just running away.
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Tank-Ace on July 08, 2013, 02:13:53 PM
410
P-40C
P-39D

But if we're talking about flying them correctly

 P-38
190D
F4U

never had any luck in them, personally.
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: thndregg on July 08, 2013, 02:21:40 PM
Most fighters for me. Never any time to practice. Always take up a Yak when I do play. Love that nimble little plane.
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: RedBull1 on July 08, 2013, 02:47:49 PM
I dunno what you guys are talking about with the P40C, honestly it was one of the most fun planes I had ever flown. Trolltastic aswell!
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Karnak on July 08, 2013, 02:54:08 PM
I dunno what you guys are talking about with the P40C, honestly it was one of the most fun planes I had ever flown. Trolltastic aswell!
Fun and hard are not opposed to each other.
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Zacherof on July 08, 2013, 03:01:40 PM
110, 410, 109G6, Ta152
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Volron on July 08, 2013, 03:11:13 PM
Most fighters for me. Never any time to practice. Always take up a Yak when I do play. Love that nimble little plane.

Same for me, only the A6M3 is my usual choice. :)
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: titanic3 on July 08, 2013, 03:16:52 PM
Non easy mode? People listing P40C and P39Ds, those planes have next to zero chance in the MA unless you come across a 2 week noob, even then, all he has to do is pull back on the stick in a Spit16.

If you're asking for planes that's not uber as well as having some sort of chance of survival, then:

109F/G2/G6/G14
Ki-61
P38G
F4U-1
FM2
110G (though I haven't seen anyone TnB with it besides myself)
Spit Mk V
C205
Mossie
P39Q
Yak 9 (T and U)
P47 (anyone that TnB with one is a winner in my book)
190A5

Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Daddkev on July 08, 2013, 03:20:11 PM
 :huh :huh :huh any off them that require flightsuits!  :rofl :rofl :rofl :devil :devil :devil Nekked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :devil :devil :devil
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: curry1 on July 08, 2013, 03:23:44 PM
410
P-40C
P-39D

But if we're talking about flying them correctly

 P-38
190D
F4U

never had any luck in them, personally.

Wut?  Corsair is one of the easier planes to fly effectively once you figure out there is a flap button.
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Zacherof on July 08, 2013, 03:27:31 PM
Wut?  Corsair is one of the easier planes to fly effectively once you figure out there is a flap button.
Flaps only go so far. start rolling with flaps and  :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


:huh :huh :huh any off them that require flightsuits!  :rofl :rofl :rofl :devil :devil :devil Nekked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :devil :devil :devil
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/bearshin/Frederic-Metal-Smiey-GIF.gif) (http://media.photobucket.com/user/bearshin/media/Frederic-Metal-Smiey-GIF.gif.html)
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Brooke on July 08, 2013, 07:50:13 PM
For the MA, my guess would be that the P-40's are most difficult, although I don't fly them much, so I'm not positive about that.

I wouldn't count the Me 410 as a fighter, but if so, that one, to me, seems more difficult than even the P-40 if we are talking about fighter vs. fighter and not fighter vs. bomber.

I have flown the other candidates a fair amount (P-39D a lot, C.202, Spit I, Hurri I, Bf 109E, Bf 110C).  They are all OK, in my opinion.  The P-39D is not a dog -- it is reasonably fast down low, handles well at high speed, and turns reasonably well.  I do better in that than I do in the P-38!  ;)  The C.202, Spit I, Hurri I, and Bf 109E are all good at turning with (except for the 109E) the main weakness being low lethality of guns, so they can still be competitive in most MA fights.
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: pervert on July 08, 2013, 08:30:54 PM
Hardest planes I'll assume you mean fighting in, and hard as in annoying to fly because everything else is faster.

1. F1 Sopwith Camel

In terms of stick input and good form to fly it this is hands down the hardest plane in Aces High too fly well, usually you can stick a good stick in any plane and they will fly it half way decent even a DR1, not so the F1 you have too be a real sadist to fly this especially against the DR1, the gyro effects make the most simple of maneuvers a life or death affair in a fight. The plane seems like a dog at first but with a lot of experimention, deaths and practice it starts to perform for you and ends up being something really rewarding too fly.


2. FW 190 D9

It doesn't turn at all, all the D9 really has is top of the line thrust a big engine, like the K4 but minus the turn, in a flat turn it actually does turn better with no flaps, its that bad in turn, its the embodiment of the fact that in terms of manoeuvrability in a fight turn is second to thrust.

Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Brooke on July 08, 2013, 08:53:10 PM
The FW 190D-9 is one of the planes I do best in, and it is one of the most-popular planes.  But if we're talking about planes that we individually have a harder time in regardless of whether or not overall the plane is competitive, then for me, it would be the P-38.  Every plane has its strengths and weaknesses. The P-38's weaknesses line up precisely with my weaknesses, I guess.  :uhoh
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: uptown on July 08, 2013, 08:59:19 PM
I'd have to say the B5N. I have no problem getting behind my opponent but I can never get any hit sprites on him  :bhead



















 :D  :neener:
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Brooke on July 08, 2013, 09:00:07 PM
In scenarios, the weakest planes are a much different set, and they depend on the situation.

For example, in A6M2 vs. P-40, the P-40 is preferable, in my opinion (i.e., P-40 isn't the low man on the totem pole anymore).  And in late war, the Spit 16 isn't very good -- too slow.
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Brooke on July 08, 2013, 09:01:26 PM
I'd have to say the B5N. I have no problem getting behind my opponent but I can never get any hit sprites on him

 :aok  Many, many is the time I have wished that the B5N had forward guns.
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: uptown on July 08, 2013, 09:01:31 PM
In scenarios, the weakest planes are a much different set, and they depend on the situation.

For example, in A6M2 vs. P-40, the P-40 is preferable, in my opinion (i.e., P-40 isn't the low man on the totem pole anymore).  And in late war, the Spit 16 isn't very good -- too slow.

                             :huh
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: MK-84 on July 08, 2013, 09:20:04 PM
Hardest planes I'll assume you mean fighting in, and hard as in annoying to fly because everything else is faster.

1. F1 Sopwith Camel

In terms of stick input and good form to fly it this is hands down the hardest plane in Aces High too fly well, usually you can stick a good stick in any plane and they will fly it half way decent even a DR1, not so the F1 you have too be a real sadist to fly this especially against the DR1, the gyro effects make the most simple of maneuvers a life or death affair in a fight. The plane seems like a dog at first but with a lot of experimention, deaths and practice it starts to perform for you and ends up being something really rewarding too fly.


2. FW 190 D9

It doesn't turn at all, all the D9 really has is top of the line thrust a big engine, like the K4 but minus the turn, in a flat turn it actually does turn better with no flaps, its that bad in turn, its the embodiment of the fact that in terms of manoeuvrability in a fight turn is second to thrust.



I disagree on the 190D9.  It's awesome.  A plane does not need to have a great turning radius to absoutley dominate the MA.  Take the 262 for example but its lack of turning radius doesnt seem to come up like it does with the D9.  Probably because of a lack of perks and thus the risk of losing one, and also because it is much harder to actually get it too slow.  If you're engaging an enemy in a D9 and trying to utilize its best turning radius you're doing it wrong. This is a plane build for speed and meant to be kept fast.
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: RedBull1 on July 08, 2013, 09:26:56 PM
the Spit 16 isn't very good -- too slow.

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mardbiyWZG1rv0rj7o1_500.gif)
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: MK-84 on July 08, 2013, 09:40:54 PM
Wut?  Corsair is one of the easier planes to fly effectively once you figure out there is a flap button.

Then I really wouldn't consider it easy mode.
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: pervert on July 08, 2013, 09:45:50 PM
I disagree on the 190D9.  It's awesome.  A plane does not need to have a great turning radius to absoutley dominate the MA.  Take the 262 for example but its lack of turning radius doesnt seem to come up like it does with the D9.  Probably because of a lack of perks and thus the risk of losing one, and also because it is much harder to actually get it too slow.  If you're engaging an enemy in a D9 and trying to utilize its best turning radius you're doing it wrong. This is a plane build for speed and meant to be kept fast.

So you equate the title of this thread non easy mode to basically being a s1%t plane?  :huh I would see it as what plane is harder to squeeze the best out of.
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: MK-84 on July 08, 2013, 09:52:17 PM
To even consider something easy mode shouldnt there be some criteria?
For a new player I think that something would have to have good hitting power and ballistics combined with excellent handling characteristics, a much better than average turning radius while slow, and decent high speed handling.

F6F
I suggest this is the best airplane for a new player to be able to get kills in and possibly return to base.
Spit16
N1K2



Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: MK-84 on July 08, 2013, 10:00:21 PM
So you equate the title of this thread non easy mode to basically being a s1%t plane?  :huh I would see it as what plane is harder to squeeze the best out of.

No I was replying to what was considered easy mode and I lost track of the title which was the exact opposite :uhoh apologies for the unintentional hijack.

Non easy mode: (that imho could and can be awesome)
D9
Ki84 (which i cant figure out but i totally respect)
109k4
Me262
F4U models (all)
La7 (blurs the line to me, but I suspect it is only truly awesome with an awesome pilot).
Spit14
FW190 (all)

And what can be flown to extremes making it far better than it is, or (should be?):
bf110 (both)
A20
A6m3
Mossie



Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Brooke on July 08, 2013, 10:12:57 PM
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mardbiyWZG1rv0rj7o1_500.gif)

 :lol
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Brooke on July 08, 2013, 10:36:32 PM
In scenarios, the weakest planes are a much different set, and they depend on the situation.

And in late war, the Spit 16 isn't very good -- too slow.

What I mean here is not the Main Arena, but specifically late-war scenario environments.  One example is The Final Battle.  When there are 109K-4's, 190D-9's, Spit 14's, P-51's, etc., the Spit 16's are slow in comparison.  It's the same dynamic that hampers the Zero in scenarios that start having planes after the P-40 and F4F.  It's hard for them to force engagements.  They often have to rely on faster planes first pinning down the enemy.  In an environment like The Final Battle, if the allies had only Spit 16's, they would be at a large disadvantage.

In that environment, the Spit 14, however, is marvelous.
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: pervert on July 08, 2013, 11:02:11 PM
No I was replying to what was considered easy mode and I lost track of the title which was the exact opposite :uhoh apologies for the unintentional hijack.

Non easy mode: (that imho could and can be awesome)
D9
Ki84 (which i cant figure out but i totally respect)
109k4
Me262
F4U models (all)
La7 (blurs the line to me, but I suspect it is only truly awesome with an awesome pilot).
Spit14
FW190 (all)

And what can be flown to extremes making it far better than it is, or (should be?):
bf110 (both)
A20
A6m3
Mossie





I nearly done the same thing jumping in the other thread  :D
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: MK-84 on July 08, 2013, 11:04:18 PM
I nearly done the same thing jumping in the other thread  :D

That is exactly what I did :(
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: shoresroad on July 09, 2013, 04:51:49 AM
3 most difficult fighters;

P40C - Slow acceleration, poor climb and turn rate
P40E -  "       "                           "             "
P40F -  "       "                           "             "

Real men fly P-40's :D
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: uptown on July 09, 2013, 05:23:53 AM
Real men fly P-40's :D
Indeed, but they'd be the ones that don't implode on the bbs when a 47M saws their wings off.  :D
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Shamus on July 09, 2013, 08:31:34 AM
I've never had much luck with the 190's, they just don't fit my e-fighting style.

shamus
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Rich46yo on July 09, 2013, 09:05:09 AM
I dont see why anyone would even want to fly a plane other then a Yak.
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Slade on July 09, 2013, 11:29:02 AM
Great posts!  Keep them coming.  :aok

Remember the context is: what are the 3 most difficult fighter planes to fly in and get kills in (of other planes).


Slade  :salute
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Wiley on July 09, 2013, 11:43:49 AM
Glad to see I'm not the only one who can't use a P40. :)

I find it interesting that many have trouble with the F4U's.  IMO they're one of the most versatile planes in the game and fairly easy to fly.  They're just 'busy' to fly because once you start turnfighting you have to start hammering the flap buttons.

I'd say the two earliest P40's and the P39 would be my top 3 non easymode planes.  It probably is a flying style thing.  I really tend to have trouble flying underpowered aircraft.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Fruda on July 09, 2013, 02:33:53 PM
The I-16 is pretty difficult to get kills in, but for two reasons only: its low top speed, and its light guns package. Other than that, it's a fantastic, exceedingly nimble fighter. You can't force a fight, but if you play your cards right and lure an enemy to your altitude and speed, you have a decent chance at a kill.

Well, if your marksmanship is good, anyway. I think of it as a real man's fighter. Да здравствует Поликарпов!
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Zacherof on July 09, 2013, 02:44:39 PM
I've never had much luck with the 190's, they just don't fit my e-fighting style.

shamus
190's are allabout E  :aok
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Brooke on July 09, 2013, 03:23:35 PM
The I-16 seems very fun.  My biggest problem with it is the fuel load being so small.
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: RedBull1 on July 09, 2013, 03:25:06 PM
190's are allabout E  :aok
Nonsense! Dat roll-rate son! Plus, the A5 and 152 turn just fine ;)
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: perdue3 on July 09, 2013, 03:43:04 PM
110C, 410, P-39D
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Shamus on July 09, 2013, 03:44:14 PM
190's are allabout E  :aok

I think you and I have a different definition of energy fighting.

shamus
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Arlo on July 09, 2013, 03:49:01 PM
The I-16 seems very fun.  My biggest problem with it is the fuel load being so small.

Agreed ... but the challenge is half the fun.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img22/2415/5lfh.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img29/5932/j912.png)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img203/6652/e6f0.png)

I'd like to see them more often in events and the AvA.  :aok
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Fulcrum on July 09, 2013, 04:56:51 PM

And what can be flown to extremes making it far better than it is, or (should be?):
bf110 (both)
A20
A6m3
Mossie


If I may....I humbly would like to add the Yak 9T for consideration for the above list.

Going dark now.
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: jododger on July 09, 2013, 05:22:30 PM
Great posts!  Keep them coming.  :aok

Remember the context is: what are the 3 most difficult fighter planes to fly in and get kills in (of other planes).


Slade  :salute

c202
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Zacherof on July 09, 2013, 05:31:39 PM
Nonsense! Dat roll-rate son! Plus, the A5 and 152 turn just fine ;)
I know the A5, but i have a hard time with the 152.  :furious
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Lusche on July 09, 2013, 05:34:43 PM
From the stats front:


The three fighters with the lowest kill total in the current year (tour 156-161):

Spitfire Mk I   469
P-40C   593
Hurricane Mk I   616


The three fighters with the lowest overall K/D:

Spitfire Mk I   0,38
A6M2   0,48
P-40C   0,50


Edit: Fortunatley nobody really looks at my numbers... had cut & pasted from the wrong table first  :o
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: MK-84 on July 09, 2013, 08:21:13 PM
Luche's post made me think of something.

When we are talking about non easy mode planes, do we mean crappy planes, in terms of performance and ability to be competetive? Or do we mean planes that can be dominate the MA but only in the hands of a very skilled player?
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Tank-Ace on July 09, 2013, 08:33:23 PM
Luche's post made me think of something.

When we are talking about non easy mode planes, do we mean crappy planes, in terms of performance and ability to be competitive? Or do we mean planes that can be dominate the MA but only in the hands of a very skilled player?

I'd say that, based on Luche's numbers, there's some overlap. Doesn't necessarily have to be one or the other.
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: caldera on July 09, 2013, 08:37:33 PM
From the stats front:


The three fighters with the lowest kill total in the current year (tour 156-161):

Spitfire Mk I   469
P-40C   593
Hurricane Mk I   616


The three fighters with the lowest overall K/D:

Spitfire Mk I   0,38
A6M2   0,48
P-40C   0,50


Edit: Fortunatley nobody really looks at my numbers... had cut & pasted from the wrong table first  :o


Out of that bunch, I would choose the P-40C for the Main Arena.  It is no match for those other planes in the group, but has the benefit of surprise against say, a P-51D.  The P-51 would be cautious to not get slow around the turny birds but would more likely turn fight the P-40.  And then get spanked.  :ahand
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Butcher on July 10, 2013, 08:34:51 AM
Any Early war fighter trying to fly in Late War is non-easy mode enough. Basically not enough horsepower, guns or maneuverability. I've always flown EW and MW planes in LWA just for the challenge, however It gets heavily frustrating just flying EW planes.
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Bruv119 on July 10, 2013, 09:03:28 AM
this is appalling news,     We will have to score some Spit mk I kills.  Spitfires do not finish bottom at anything!!1    :x
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Brooke on July 10, 2013, 01:57:07 PM
The Spit I isn't that bad.  What is really fun about flying it is that it can outturn all of the other Spits.  So, you get into fights where the Spit 16's or Spit V's do the typical thing of going immediately into turn and burn mode, and they are in trouble against the Spit I.  :)
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: titanic3 on July 10, 2013, 02:15:01 PM
The Spit I isn't that bad.  What is really fun about flying it is that it can outturn all of the other Spits.  So, you get into fights where the Spit 16's or Spit V's do the typical thing of going immediately into turn and burn mode, and they are in trouble against the Spit I.  :)

Or they can just turn in the Y direction instead and you're SOL.
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Lusche on July 10, 2013, 02:17:47 PM
this is appalling news,     We will have to score some Spit mk I kills.  Spitfires do not finish bottom at anything!!1    :x


If I'm not mistaken, Mindanao should come up in the next few days. This is a great terrain for using the Spit I and other slow turners  :old:
Title: Re: Non-Easy Mode Planes
Post by: Brooke on July 10, 2013, 03:03:26 PM
Or they can just turn in the Y direction instead and you're SOL.

Even then.  Any Spit pulling lots of g's around a Spit I can find itself in trouble.