Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Max on July 21, 2013, 06:10:19 AM
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The general consensus seems to indicate that most experienced players don't use it, as it limits the envelope of the aircraft. I've tried it recently with a few 109 models, which always feel a bit too "twitchy".
OTOH I know a few good sticks who admit to using it 24/7. What say you? Are there specific planes that benefit from it?
Thanks. :aok
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OTOH I know a few good sticks who admit to using it 24/7.
Really? :huh Who?
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Stall limiter NO! Combat trim on the other hand goes either way.
Which are you really asking about?
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No to both. Not that I never use combat trim but I have it mapped to a clutch/Hat 1 control for easy access. The problem with auto-trim is you forget you have it on and in the heat of fighting all of a sudden your having trouble keeping your nose up. It can be useful as a fast trim, turning it on and off, or when lining up a shot to steady your plane, but as a general rule I dont like it on all the time. I map trim to a wheel on my X52 throttle.
As for stall limiter why would anyone need it when you can hear the airplane starting to stall out anyways.
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The general consensus seems to indicate that most experienced players don't use it, as it limits the envelope of the aircraft.
As you correctly pointed out, the stall limiter has the advantage of protecting you from areas in the envelope where there is a risk of stalling or spinning, but that it also restricts your access to parts of the envelope that can produce the highest levels of performance in terms of better turning ability.
Most players I know prefer to accept the risks in order to squeeze every drop of performance from the aircraft, depending only on their skill for protection against departures.
The choice is simple:
- You can allow the game to assist you and pay the price in performance.
- You can hone your skills and learn to ride the edge of the envelope safely and get the extra performance.
Which way you go depends on how much time or energy you wish to invest. However, I would suggest that the rewards to be had from winning without crutches are well worth the investment.
Hope that helps...
Badboy
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Here's my take on the stall limiter - and bear in mind that I've never really used it, when I started playing Aces High (many moons ago) stall limiter wasn't in the game so I've never had to deal with making the transition.
If you are using stall limiter and you switch it off the transition may be difficult (and frustrating) but eventually you will learn to fly w/out it and receive the benefit of the full range of performance from whatever plane you are flying. Because as a player you have the ability to make adjustments, learn, improve.
If the system limits your performance you won't ever be able to get the most out of your aircraft it will be a permanent hindrance.
I always would advise players to turn it off when they are ready. Precisely when is of course entirely up to them and where they are at in their own AH "career".
For any player who is thinking about taking the plunge and turning off stall limiter you may want to revisit your joystick scaling, info is available on the trainers website.
http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/ (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/)
Or for a direct link to the joystick setup page
http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/controllers/controllers.htm#calibrate (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/controllers/controllers.htm#calibrate)
Or mouse setup
http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/mouse/mouse.htm (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/mouse/mouse.htm)
So I say turn it off, in the long run players will benefit with it off. Grab a friend and spend some time in the TA just tooling around, fighting. It might take a while but simple stick time (and maybe joystick scaling tweaks) should smooth out the rough edges.
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After flying for two or three years with the stall limiter on, it took a lot of practice in the DA to get somewhat used to having it off (the P-40E was my main ride at the time and that had a nasty stall). Then after a break from the game, I couldn't keep from augering, so it was back to having it on.
Probably 99% of the fights I lose are due more to poor ACM than not having that last little bit of performance. And my record against trees is much better with the stall limiter. :)
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Turn it off, you'll be doing yourself a service.
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Really? :huh Who?
T'aint sayen' :cool:
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if 2 equal pilots go against one another....1 has Stall limiter on....... one has it off...the one with it off will win every time.
combat trim not so much.
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No.
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When I first started flying AH, I had the stall limiter on, simply because it was on by default. A wise decision, I believe, as it helps new users get used to the game. When I turned it off, I spent a few hours flying into the ground. But I got the hang of it, and found I was able to pull much tighter maneuvers.
I still fly into the ground, but not nearly as often.
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I'd say if you're new to flight sims in general it might keep you out of sone trouble you could get into. Personally I think it helps in the long run to leave it off and just get used to flying without it.
Wiley.
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I feel like it should be off by default...
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Stall limiter (SL) does a few things great and bad.
If SL is on it will prevent your plane from having a wing stall...now this is important because there are maneuvers u cant perform unless you USE the bad effect of stall to your advantage. The trick is mastering the ability to go into and out of stall....at will.
If you dont understand why a wing stalls and what causes it you should keep it on.
On the other hand if you have a good understanding of what SL actually does then you can use it at will depending on the plane your flying and HOW you will fly your sortie.
I will try a few examples -
Spit14 - nasty wing stall at slower speeds. Use SL and you will keep more energy and prevent snap stalls at critical times....usually you want to BZ/energy fight with this plane so having it on is good.
109K4 - SL is a bad idea. This plane has a pretty wide range of stall. You can push up to it easily...and when in stall it can be controlled by using the orientation and torque of the plane. Purposely going to power on or power off stall can make this plane do really nice flips and nose ups.
Zero - No need to turn SL. It is forgiving anyway...if you are snap stalling or whatever then your not flying the plane correctly.
For new players....say with a few weeks maybe a month of playing it is very useful so they can attack hard but not loose control...it helps in understanding how a plane flys without dying every time you yank the stick to hard.
For training purposes its great. Turn SL on and fly in the MA. This will force you to use more angles and teach about energy. It's a test to use SL and stay behind someone who doesn't have it on....more yoyo moves...more finesse on playing the correct counter moves.
Then turn it off and you will get more edge out of the plane. But really you should fly correctly until you HAVE to use stall tactics.
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errr no way.
I remember a great chat I had with Bear69 when my spit 9 out turned his Hurri 2C with ease. The difference is night and day.
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When I was new I deliberately left the SL on for about three months after doing some testing. I was flying the La-7 at that time and I figured that I would not get that much from disabling it, as I was mostly flying it BnZ / E fighting. This crutch allowed me to concentrate on learning all the other stuff flooding me at that time, especially tactical and battle SA.
Indeed I later found it not to make much difference in that plane and with that specific fighting style. However, once I started to explore the whole planeset and had the necessary basic skillset, turning it off became a necessity. But I was ready for it by then.
YMMV
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I feel like it should be off by default...
Why would you say this? a large number of new players start with the mouse and KB and even if they have a JS they still have troubles flying with the stall limiter on.
Maybe you need to be corrected more often and you wouldn't make so many asinine comments.
:salute
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Why would you say this? a large number of new players start with the mouse and KB and even if they have a JS they still have troubles flying with the stall limiter on.
Maybe you need to be corrected more often and you wouldn't make so many asinine comments.
:salute
:) I flew H2H for months with a mouse without stall limiter. Had no problems back then with augering. Maybe you shouldn't correct anyone if you yourself are not correct. Oh, and if you don't believe it, then allow me to spend a few minutes with you flying with a mouse. Sure, I won't be doing tail slides but it's certainly not as bad as you make it out to be. More than enough to make BnZ passes without problems or simple maneuvers.
:salute
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:) I flew H2H for months with a mouse without stall limiter. Had no problems back then with augering. Maybe you shouldn't correct anyone if you yourself are not correct. Oh, and if you don't believe it, then allow me to spend a few minutes with you flying with a mouse. Sure, I won't be doing tail slides but it's certainly not as bad as you make it out to be. More than enough to make BnZ passes without problems or simple maneuvers.
:salute
I don't want to start a purse fight,I'm sure you'd win! Not everyone is as skilled as you,some have real difficulties just trying to take of and land,if you spent any time helping new players you would soon find this out.
Just because "you" had no problems doesn't mean everyone has no problems learning to fly,but hey if I had all your experience and knowledge I'd be a trainer......
:salute
PS: a tailslide is not ACM or even BFM it's aerobatics and has little use in air combat but I'm sure you will be the first to correct me on this!
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I don't want to start a purse fight,I'm sure you'd win!
but hey if I had all your experience and knowledge I'd be a trainer......
:rofl
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I don't want to start a purse fight,I'm sure you'd win! Not everyone is as skilled as you,some have real difficulties just trying to take of and land,if you spent any time helping new players you would soon find this out.
Just because "you" had no problems doesn't mean everyone has no problems learning to fly,but hey if I had all your experience and knowledge I'd be a trainer......
:salute
PS: a tailslide is not ACM or even BFM it's aerobatics and has little use in air combat but I'm sure you will be the first to correct me on this!
Just a verbal joust. ;)
I didn't realize take off was so hard, such a shame we don't have a system where the plane automatically takes off.
P.S. I'm sure lots of 109 pilots would be glad to know they killed someone doing aerobatics.
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If you have an issue with me please take it to PM's.
Your response was exactly what I expected...... BTW name a single 109 pilot who claimed a kill in a tailslide....please. Oh and I'm not talking about cartoon pilots!
:salute
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If you have an issue with me please take it to PM's.
Your response was exactly what I expected...... BTW name a single 109 pilot who claimed a kill in a tailslide....please. Oh and I'm not talking about cartoon pilots!
:salute
Oh snap, we jumped from a game discussion to real life. My baaaaad. :rolleyes:
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If you have an issue with me please take it to PM's.
Your response was exactly what I expected...... BTW name a single 109 pilot who claimed a kill in a tailslide....please. Oh and I'm not talking about cartoon pilots!
:salute
109 pilots were relived when they were dead. Dead men can't talk about their tail slides.
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Oh snap, we jumped from a game discussion to real life. My baaaaad. :rolleyes:
You were the one who said 109 pilots,had you of said players in the game maybe I'd have interpreted it that way.
Go ahead and find my one article on ACM that talks about a tailslide,it's not ACM it's aerobatics and if you weren't using the ingame K4 and it's one shot kill tator I think you'd find yourself in a bad position.
All of this is pointless and has nothing to do with the stall limiter,I usually suggest players turn it off but not before thay can take off and land without auto takeoff.
However I'm sure you needed no such "crutch" whether it's with a mouse or JS.... Yup when I was 18 I knew everything too!
:salute
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You were the one who said 109 pilots,had you of said players in the game maybe I'd have interpreted it that way.
Go ahead and find my one article on ACM that talks about a tailslide,it's not ACM it's aerobatics and if you weren't using the ingame K4 and it's one shot kill tator I think you'd find yourself in a bad position.
All of this is pointless and has nothing to do with the stall limiter,I usually suggest players turn it off but not before thay can take off and land without auto takeoff.
However I'm sure you needed no such "crutch" whether it's with a mouse or JS.... Yup when I was 18 I knew everything too!
:salute
Weird how 13 year old me knew the basics without prior experience yet guys who've been gaming for since the first Atari can't figure it out. I must be some wiz kid huh? Seriously, it's not hard to play a video game.
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Weird how 13 year old me knew the basics without prior experience yet guys who've been gaming for since the first Atari can't figure it out. I must be some wiz kid huh? Seriously, it's not hard to play a video game.
Wow, you are arrogant well beyond your years. :aok
Nothing like a bravado-infused argument in the Help and Training Forum.
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Wow, you are arrogant well beyond your years. :aok
Nothing like a bravado-infused argument in the Help and Training Forum.
Yup just another "punk" who knows it all.
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I turned it off the first time I downloaded ah1 whilst trawling through the settings before I had even tried flying anything. I would advise any new player to do this as learning the game without it I expect to be far easier than having the learn the game a second time when you get round to turning it off.
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Wow, you are arrogant well beyond your years. :aok
Nothing like a bravado-infused argument in the Help and Training Forum.
Yup just another "punk" who knows it all.
Oh look, random people that I don't care about telling me about me. Hop off my ankle.
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Titanic, this is help and training, please don't continue to distract from that vocation
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I turned it off the first time I downloaded ah1 whilst trawling through the settings before I had even tried flying anything. I would advise any new player to do this as learning the game without it I expect to be far easier than having the learn the game a second time when you get round to turning it off.
I certainly have to agree with the above, guess that's why y'all (You and Morf) are "trainers". :cheers: