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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: pappy59 on July 22, 2013, 11:29:16 PM

Title: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: pappy59 on July 22, 2013, 11:29:16 PM
Aces High,

It would be awesome to introduce this airplane to the main arena late war. It saw combat in 1944, 1945. About 200-250 were built and flown. Perhaps perked, as it was considered the fastest piston engine aircraft flown in WWll.  :rock

TWCPappy
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Volron on July 22, 2013, 11:32:32 PM
End well, this will not.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 22, 2013, 11:41:32 PM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS33dpTEM6n-gX0ht6vaHdUtLFYsLzP_aNvHLaU7hxbZs5GvrJR)

ack-ack
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: MrKrabs on July 23, 2013, 12:35:51 AM
Aces High,

It would be awesome to introduce this airplane to the main arena late war. It saw combat in 1944, 1945. About 200-250 were built and flown. Perhaps perked, as it was considered the fastest piston engine aircraft flown in WWll.  :rock

TWCPappy

(http://i.imgur.com/LBt6j.gif)
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Lusche on July 23, 2013, 02:02:30 AM
It would be awesome to introduce this airplane to the main arena late war. It saw combat in 1944, 1945. About 200-250 were built and flown.

Though about half of them were of the civillian version used by the Lufthansa  :old:

(http://modelingmadness.com/review/axis/luft/sczedo335pf.jpg)
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: lyric1 on July 23, 2013, 02:20:19 AM
Though about half of them were of the civillian version used by the Lufthansa  :old:

(http://modelingmadness.com/review/axis/luft/sczedo335pf.jpg)


Never knew that.

Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: alpini13 on July 23, 2013, 02:23:47 AM
only a  few do-335 were even built,most for testing, they did not see combat,they were not in squad strenght,they should not be included
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Lusche on July 23, 2013, 02:26:01 AM
Never knew that.




For good reason ;)
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Zacherof on July 23, 2013, 02:36:28 AM
Aces High,

It would be awesome to introduce this airplane to the main arena late war. It saw combat in 1944, 1945. About 200-250 were built and flown. Perhaps perked, as it was considered the fastest piston engine aircraft flown in WWll.  :rock

TWCPappy
:rofl
wish it met the criteria but it didn't  :(
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Bino on July 23, 2013, 10:35:26 AM
Aces High,

It would be awesome to introduce this airplane to the main arena late war. It saw combat in 1944, 1945. About 200-250 were built and flown. Perhaps perked, as it was considered the fastest piston engine aircraft flown in WWll.  :rock

TWCPappy

Sorry, but those numbers you cite are way, way off.  Only some thirty-five or forty were built, and several of those were unfinished when the Allies over-ran the factory at Oberpfaffenhofen.  The 335 is certainly fascinating, but it was a long, long way from being in service.  

Here is a photo of the Dornier airfield at Oberpfaffenhofen taken just a few days after the end of the war, during an operation named Trolley. (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/wwii-aerial-images-unearthed-us-pilots-snapshots-reveal-extent-of-germany-s-post-war-devastation-a-694779.html)

(http://kenshelby.us/images/oberpfaffenhofen-airfield.jpg)
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Arlo on July 23, 2013, 10:47:20 AM
But it would be cool to see the Oberpfaffenhofen airfield with the unflyable 335s on a German terrain.  Heck, think of them as terrain 'Easter eggs' ... all the rare and unfinished wishbirds. :D
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Tank-Ace on July 23, 2013, 10:54:16 AM
But it would be cool to see the Oberpfaffenhofen airfield with the unflyable 335s on a German terrain.  Heck, think of them as terrain 'Easter eggs' ... all the rare and unfinished wishbirds. :D
l

In a terrain im making,  I want to put a bunch of bears randomly placed around the map. And maybe a Maus hidden away somewhere as a destructible object.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Arlo on July 23, 2013, 10:55:54 AM
l

In a terrain im making,  I want to put a bunch of bears randomly placed around the map. And maybe a Maus hidden away somewhere as a destructible object.

That would be cool, as well. The more unique destroyable objects, the better.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: bozon on July 25, 2013, 09:54:41 AM
In a terrain im making,  I want to put a bunch of bears randomly placed around the map. And maybe a Maus hidden away somewhere as a destructible object.
forget that and put lots of sheep instead.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: No9Squadron on July 25, 2013, 10:59:15 AM
for me, that's getting a bit late war/1946 when there are plenty of actual WW2 planes not available. But a 1946 mod would be a lot of fun and would have to include a map called Wolfenstein with supersoldiers.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: fullmetalbullet on July 25, 2013, 11:32:56 AM
:rofl
wish it met the criteria but it didn't  :(

I love how people keep throwing "Criteria" around even though HiTech and Skuzzy both said there are no set rules for aircraft inclusion. however i do agree that the 335 should not be in the game. not enoguh info is given about it and alot of the info states it did not get out of prototype stage.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Zacherof on July 25, 2013, 12:23:23 PM
I love how people keep throwing "Criteria" around even though HiTech and Skuzzy both said there are no set rules for aircraft inclusion. however i do agree that the 335 should not be in the game. not enoguh info is given about it and alot of the info states it did not get out of prototype stage.
Im pretty sure there is of rules and criteria
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: gyrene81 on July 25, 2013, 12:41:16 PM
I love how people keep throwing "Criteria" around even though HiTech and Skuzzy both said there are no set rules for aircraft inclusion.
never saw either say that...you got a link?
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Karnak on July 25, 2013, 12:54:16 PM
The last comment I saw from HiTech about it was that they want it to have seen combat.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: gyrene81 on July 25, 2013, 01:02:03 PM
ya know, it occurs to me that "had to see combat" is kind of an open door sort of thing...let's consider that a single example, whether it be prototype or 1 example off a production run got into the air and was subequently shot down without firing a shot, which in turn prompted command to stop all production for something else, that could qualify it as "saw combat".
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Zacherof on July 25, 2013, 01:04:11 PM
ya know, it occurs to me that "had to see combat" is kind of an open door sort of thing...let's consider that a single example, whether it be prototype or 1 example off a production run got into the air and was subequently shot down without firing a shot, which in turn prompted command to stop all production for something else, that could qualify it as "saw combat".
  :uhoh
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Karnak on July 25, 2013, 01:04:26 PM
ya know, it occurs to me that "had to see combat" is kind of an open door sort of thing...let's consider that a single example, whether it be prototype or 1 example off a production run got into the air and was subequently shot down without firing a shot, which in turn prompted command to stop all production for something else, that could qualify it as "saw combat".
Don't think so as prototypes are very rarely the same as production machines.  Look at the prototype Spitfire compared to even a Mk I.  In the case of the Do335 the one that got chased by a Tempest had no guns.  If you count that as combat does that make the armed Do335 eligible or just an unarmed prototype?
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Megalodon on July 25, 2013, 01:09:15 PM
I love how people keep throwing "Criteria" around even though HiTech and Skuzzy both said there are no set rules for aircraft inclusion. however i do agree that the 335 should not be in the game. not enoguh info is given about it and alot of the info states it did not get out of prototype stage.
They took planes right out of prototypes yard at the end of the war...which is obvious because we have the TA-152 in the game   :lol


This sucker was massive and you really would have to watch out for the tail on take off and landing  :O  Actually there is more visual proof of their existence than the TA-152  :aok

DO-335 cannons
(http://www.wwiiaircraftphotos.com/LCBW6/Do335-WingGuns-1.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC5sZ7qk5_M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC5sZ7qk5_M)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtElBeaF2Ew (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtElBeaF2Ew)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK8ydLY5QHQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK8ydLY5QHQ)

 :cheers:
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: gyrene81 on July 25, 2013, 01:12:55 PM
Don't think so as prototypes are very rarely the same as production machines.  Look at the prototype Spitfire compared to even a Mk I.  In the case of the Do335 the one that got chased by a Tempest had no guns.  If you count that as combat does that make the armed Do335 eligible or just an unarmed prototype?
don't be so quick to jump there ol' boy, i'm not making the rules and i didn't say it was correct but...it is "open to interpretation".
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Karnak on July 25, 2013, 01:41:21 PM
They took planes right out of prototypes yard at the end of the war...which is obvious because we have the TA-152 in the game   :lol
Except the Ta152 was out of prototype and in series production as has been documented.  No such documentation exists for Do335s, nor are there any kill or loss claims for the Do335.  Those are significant differences.

The Ta152 seems to upset you quite a bit, but stating falsehoods about it is silly.  The Ta152H-1 was not a prototype, just a very low production aircraft.


Quote
This sucker was massive and you really would have to watch out for the tail on take off and landing  :O  Actually there is more visual proof of their existence than the TA-152  :aok

DO-335 cannons
(http://www.wwiiaircraftphotos.com/LCBW6/Do335-WingGuns-1.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC5sZ7qk5_M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC5sZ7qk5_M)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtElBeaF2Ew (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtElBeaF2Ew)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK8ydLY5QHQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK8ydLY5QHQ)

 :cheers:

I've got photos of Ta152s as well.  Seeing as there is absolute proof of both, what is your point?
don't be so quick to jump there ol' boy, i'm not making the rules and i didn't say it was correct but...it is "open to interpretation".
Indeed.  Wasn't suggesting you were making the rules.  I was just discussing how the interpretations could be done and what they could mean.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Megalodon on July 25, 2013, 01:51:25 PM
Except the Ta152 was out of prototype and in series production as has been documented.  No such documentation exists for Do335s, nor are there any kill or loss claims for the Do335.  Those are significant differences.

The Ta152 seems to upset you quite a bit, but stating falsehoods about it is silly.  The Ta152H-1 was not a prototype, just a very low production aircraft.


I've got photos of Ta152s as well.  Seeing as there is absolute proof of both, what is your point?Indeed.  Wasn't suggesting you were making the rules.  I was just discussing how the interpretations could be done and what they could mean.

 I said some of the Ta-152 were taken from the prototype and put into service oh bright one... did you see where I said they didn't have some production <12> units? I said more VISUAL evidence.

 Do you really feel the need to analyze me every time you speak?

we'll see about the false hoods
(http://www.wwiiaircraftphotos.com/LCBW4/Do335-M13-115.jpg)
http://www.wwiiaircraftphotos.com/luftwaffephotos/ldo3351.htm (http://www.wwiiaircraftphotos.com/luftwaffephotos/ldo3351.htm)


OH and btw the US captured 10 of these how many TA were captured?

As Gyrene said  1 time 1 sortie in combat is all it would take and we just don't know for abosolute positive they were never ever flown in combat now do we?


Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Zacherof on July 25, 2013, 02:08:58 PM
Jesus the view must suck in that plane :cry
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Karnak on July 25, 2013, 02:12:10 PM
I said some of the Ta-152 were taken from the prototype and put into service oh bright one... did you see where I said they didn't have some production <12> units? I said more VISUAL evidence.
You strongly implied that we have prototypes in the game and the Ta152H-1 is the proof of it.  You'll deny that of course, as your wont is to fallback on lawyeristic BS.

Quote
(http://www.wwiiaircraftphotos.com/LCBW4/Do335-M13-115.jpg)
http://www.wwiiaircraftphotos.com/luftwaffephotos/ldo3351.htm (http://www.wwiiaircraftphotos.com/luftwaffephotos/ldo3351.htm)


OH and btw the US captured 10 of these how many TA were captured?
Yay, another photo.  <yawn>

You have a point you want to make?  The quip about how many the US captured certainly falls in line with your habit of saying something that superficially sounds like it means something, but actually means nothing at all.

Quote
As Gyrene said  1 time 1 sortie in combat is all it would take and we just don't know for abosolute positive they were never ever flown in combat now do we?
Nope, hence the need for evidence that they were, not proof that they were not.  Hard to prove a negative and all that.

You know, like the proof the Ta152 was flown in combat.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Megalodon on July 25, 2013, 02:12:51 PM
Jesus the view must suck in that plane :cry

 was the fastest piston war plane of that time <I think :old:> prolly not to much looking back  :lol

 and 3 30mm  :uhoh


heres another shows the view <G>

(http://www.wwiiaircraftphotos.com/LCBW4/Do335-128.jpg)
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: fullmetalbullet on July 25, 2013, 02:25:02 PM

There is no hard and fast rule. But generally we want planes to have seen service.

HiTech

Its been a while and the message has been deleted from my inbox, but i did find it in an old post on the forums

Now im sure someone will say that service means shooting at the enemy. but seeing service can also mean entering into service during WW2 aswell. and there are many aircraft that do fit that profile. but the 335 does not. it was still in prototype stage.

Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Zacherof on July 25, 2013, 02:28:28 PM
was the fastest piston war plane of that time <I think :old:> prolly not to much looking back  :lol

 and 3 30mm  :uhoh


heres another shows the view <G>

(http://www.wwiiaircraftphotos.com/LCBW4/Do335-128.jpg)
Well I don't know about you but I like to knife fight.
Good luck trying check 6 :rofl

If added tho(doubt it wil) defiantly gonna be perked
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Arlo on July 25, 2013, 02:45:04 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d5/Arado_E.381_I_3d.svg/490px-Arado_E.381_I_3d.svg.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/AradoE555.png/800px-AradoE555.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Avar234_7.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/70/He_111_-_BV_143a_Test_%281941%29.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/BV246.jpg/800px-BV246.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/BvP170_Holzmodell1.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Blohm_%26_Voss_P_188-01.jpg/800px-Blohm_%26_Voss_P_188-01.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/ModellPhoto_BvP194.02.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/ModellPhoto_BvP208_zens.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Blohm_und_Voss_P.211.02.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Junkers_EF-128.JPG/800px-Junkers_EF-128.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/BV_P-213.jpg/800px-BV_P-213.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Dornier_Pfeil2.jpg/800px-Dornier_Pfeil2.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/DFS-39-kl1_Modell_zensiert.png/800px-DFS-39-kl1_Modell_zensiert.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Avkomet_10.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7a/Dfs346_box.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/Flettner_Fl265_model.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/Flettner_282_Modell_02.jpg/800px-Flettner_282_Modell_02.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/30/Ta183-1.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Fw_191A_on_Ground_hr_ExCC.jpg/800px-Fw_191A_on_Ground_hr_ExCC.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/98/FW_TA-238_pic1.JPG/800px-FW_TA-238_pic1.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/Fw_Trieflugel.jpg/665px-Fw_Trieflugel.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/Focke-Wulf_Volksj%C3%A4ger-5.JPG/800px-Focke-Wulf_Volksj%C3%A4ger-5.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/Focke-Wulf_1000x1000x1000_b.jpg/800px-Focke-Wulf_1000x1000x1000_b.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/27/Project7s.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Fw_SuperLorin_Modell_kl3.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Focke_Rochen_drawing.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Heinkel_he_176_san_diego_air_and_space_museum.jpg/800px-Heinkel_he_176_san_diego_air_and_space_museum.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Flughafen_Rostock-Laage1.JPG/800px-Flughafen_Rostock-Laage1.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/He280.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/HeP1077Julia_1.JPG)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/HeP1077Romeo_1.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/HE_P-1078.JPG/800px-HE_P-1078.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Heinkel_P.1079A_model.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Heinkel_Wespe.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Heinkel_Lerche.jpg/749px-Heinkel_Lerche.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Henschel_Hs_132_wiki.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/51/Horten_Ho_IX_line_drawing.svg/441px-Horten_Ho_IX_line_drawing.svg.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Horten_H_XVIII.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/Junkers_Ju_322_Mammut_-_drawing.svg/655px-Junkers_Ju_322_Mammut_-_drawing.svg.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Bundesarchiv_Bild_141-2472%2C_Flugzeug_Junkers_Ju_290_A-7.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Ju288.jpg/800px-Ju288.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/Junkers_JU-390_in_flight.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Modellphoto_Ju287V1_1.png/800px-Modellphoto_Ju287V1_1.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ad/BV_P-194_pic2.JPG/800px-BV_P-194_pic2.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/Esquema_JU_Ef132.JPG/800px-Esquema_JU_Ef132.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/Alekseev_tipo_150-1.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Lippisch_P-13A.JPG/800px-Lippisch_P-13A.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/LiP15_1.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/LiP20_1.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Messerschmitt261zentral6.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Me_309.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Messerschmitt_Me_609_model.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Bf109TL_3Seiten.jpg/800px-Bf109TL_3Seiten.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Me_p1079-16-d-d.jpg/800px-Me_p1079-16-d-d.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Messerschmitt_P.1099.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Messerschmitt_ME_1101.JPG/800px-Messerschmitt_ME_1101.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/Messerschmitt_ME_P-1106_pic2.JPG/800px-Messerschmitt_ME_P-1106_pic2.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Me_P_1110.jpg/800px-Me_P_1110.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/Messerschmitt_ME_P-1111.JPG/800px-Messerschmitt_ME_P-1111.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/MeP1112_3.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b5/Skoda-Kauba_P14-01.jpg/800px-Skoda-Kauba_P14-01.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/Sombold_So_344-2.jpg/800px-Sombold_So_344-2.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/86/Zep_fliegende_panzerfaust-d.jpg/800px-Zep_fliegende_panzerfaust-d.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/Zeppelin_rammer-64.jpg/800px-Zeppelin_rammer-64.jpg)NO

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Luftwaffe_aircraft_prototype_projects_during_World_War_II

Just say NO to (http://www.migman.com/sw/SWOTL/pics/SWOTL_CD.jpg)

 :D
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: gyrene81 on July 25, 2013, 02:47:42 PM
Its been a while and the message has been deleted from my inbox, but i did find it in an old post on the forums

Now im sure someone will say that service means shooting at the enemy. but seeing service can also mean entering into service during WW2 aswell. and there are many aircraft that do fit that profile. but the 335 does not. it was still in prototype stage.
good find. entering service would be deployed to active squadrons...at least in u.s. terms. there were a number of planes that went "production" to varying degrees but never were distributed to active squadrons.


*edit* i see photospammer Arlo did his thing again...
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Zacherof on July 25, 2013, 02:49:01 PM
Lol damn Germans spent alof of time and resources for their designs :rofl
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Arlo on July 25, 2013, 02:50:28 PM
*edit* i see photospammer Arlo did his thing again...

Enjoy. I will never have to take that much time on a similar post again. It's recyclable. Feel free to use it, yourownself. Y'welcome.  :aok :D
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: gyrene81 on July 25, 2013, 02:51:26 PM
Enjoy. I will never have to take that much time on a similar post again. It's recyclable. Feel free to use it, yourownself. Y'welcome.  :aok :D
:rofl   :lol  beyotch...  :neener:
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Skuzzy on July 25, 2013, 02:53:10 PM
never saw either say that...you got a link?

I'd like to see that myself.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Arlo on July 25, 2013, 02:58:36 PM
We will not waste time modeling 1946 super-duper aliens helping the Germans win WWII in an alternate reality setting type stuff.

(Ok, I made that up. Forgive me, Skuz.)  :pray :D
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: fullmetalbullet on July 25, 2013, 02:59:04 PM
I'd like to see that myself.

Skuzzy you yourself said in the MA that there is "No standing rule for aircraft inclusion".
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Skuzzy on July 25, 2013, 03:05:49 PM
Skuzzy you yourself said in the MA that there is "No standing rule for aircraft inclusion".

I do not recall saying that.  However, assuming I did, for giggles.  It would have been in the context of Pyro makes the decision on what is included in the game and there are far more variables than simply whether or not the plane saw combat in the war.

I could have easily said, "I do not make the rules...", or "I do not know what all the rules are..." and so on.  For me to say what you claim, I would have had to been under the influence of some really nasty stuff.  I know who makes the rules, I simply do not know what they are.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Arlo on July 25, 2013, 03:07:20 PM
HT's bribelink: http://www.internetwines.com/pa95154.html
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Megalodon on July 25, 2013, 03:17:06 PM
 I believe he just got it wrong when he included you he meant HT and Pyro and I believe it was Pryo who made the statement....

anyway... would this count I mean were talkin similar numbers here to the 152.

"The first 10 Do 335 A-0s were delivered for testing in May. By late 1944, the Do 335 A-1 was on the production line. This was similar to the A-0 but with the uprated DB 603 E-1 engines and two underwing hardpoints for additional bombs, drop tanks or guns. It was capable of a maximum speed of 763 km/h (474 mph) at 6,500 m (21,300 ft) with MW 50 boost, or 686 km/h (426 mph) without boost, and able to climb to 8,000 m (26,250 ft) in under 15 minutes. Even with one engine out, it could reach about 563 km/h (350 mph).

Delivery commenced in January 1945. When the United States Army overran the Oberpfaffenhofen factory in late April 1945, only 11 Do 335 A-1 single-seat fighter-bombers and 2 Do 335 A-12 trainers had been completed."

"French ace Pierre Clostermann claimed the first Allied combat encounter with a Do-335 Pfeil in April 1945. In his book The Big Show  he describes leading a flight of four Hawker Tempests from No. 3 Squadron RAF over northern Germany, when he intercepted a lone Do 335 flying at maximum speed at treetop level. Detecting the British aircraft, the German pilot reversed course to evade. Despite the Tempest's considerable low altitude speed, the RAF fighters were not able to catch up or even get into firing position."


 :cheers:
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Ardy123 on July 25, 2013, 03:21:28 PM
forget that and put lots of sheep instead.


 :aok :aok more sheep please... and maybe some sharks with lazer beams
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Skuzzy on July 25, 2013, 03:24:20 PM
I would be speaking out of turn if I tried to guess, if a plane should or could be included, into the game.  That is up to HiTech and Pyro.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: whiteman on July 25, 2013, 03:25:35 PM
I believe he just got it wrong when he included you he meant HT and Pyro and I believe it was Pryo who made the statement....

anyway... would this count I mean were talkin similar numbers here to the 152.

"The first 10 Do 335 A-0s were delivered for testing in May. By late 1944, the Do 335 A-1 was on the production line. This was similar to the A-0 but with the uprated DB 603 E-1 engines and two underwing hardpoints for additional bombs, drop tanks or guns. It was capable of a maximum speed of 763 km/h (474 mph) at 6,500 m (21,300 ft) with MW 50 boost, or 686 km/h (426 mph) without boost, and able to climb to 8,000 m (26,250 ft) in under 15 minutes. Even with one engine out, it could reach about 563 km/h (350 mph).

Delivery commenced in January 1945. When the United States Army overran the Oberpfaffenhofen factory in late April 1945, only 11 Do 335 A-1 single-seat fighter-bombers and 2 Do 335 A-12 trainers had been completed."

"French ace Pierre Clostermann claimed the first Allied combat encounter with a Do-335 Pfeil in April 1945. In his book The Big Show  he describes leading a flight of four Hawker Tempests from No. 3 Squadron RAF over northern Germany, when he intercepted a lone Do 335 flying at maximum speed at treetop level. Detecting the British aircraft, the German pilot reversed course to evade. Despite the Tempest's considerable low altitude speed, the RAF fighters were not able to catch up or even get into firing position."


 :cheers:

that story has been discussed many times since I've been here and the results every time were a one time chance encounter isn't a combat run for the Do 335.

edit: and going back reading some of those threads that encounter most likely was a test flight with a slight chance of an acceptance flight. there was no where safe air space in Germany to fly prototypes and test planes without the chance of contact with allied forces.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Arlo on July 25, 2013, 04:02:34 PM
that story has been discussed many times since I've been here and the results every time were a one time chance encounter isn't a combat run for the Do 335.

edit: and going back reading some of those threads that encounter most likely was a test flight with a slight chance of an acceptance flight. there was no where safe air space in Germany to fly prototypes and test planes without the chance of contact with allied forces.

It was a 'run-like Hades' story with a 'whew' ending for the German test pilot if it's the same story I think I kinda recall.  :D
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Megalodon on July 25, 2013, 04:11:10 PM
that story has been discussed many times since I've been here and the results every time were a one time chance encounter isn't a combat run for the Do 335.

Yet April is the same time the all these 152 are buzzing around    :lol

Thats by all you experts? The fact is we simply do not know...... and 1 chance encounter prolly means there more around <like cops>.

We can see that there was a cannon version with lots of dirt and oil stains, making it more possible than just a prototype wouldnt you say?

I would,
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Karnak on July 25, 2013, 04:18:38 PM
Provide evidence of it.  Go on, do it.  Stop asking others to do it and stop asking for others to prove a negative.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Arlo on July 25, 2013, 04:25:25 PM
Yet April is the same time the all these 152 are buzzing around    :lol

Thats by all you experts? The fact is we simply do not know...... and 1 chance encounter prolly means there more around <like cops>.

We can see that there was a cannon version with lots of dirt and oil stains, making it more possible than just a prototype wouldnt you say?

I would,

Well, if we're gonna resort to making it up as we go. Model a German moon-base.  :lol
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Arlo on July 25, 2013, 04:35:54 PM
And .....

(http://www.filmuniverzum.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/swastika-moon-base-in-iron-sky-600x300.jpeg) NO

 :D
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Zacherof on July 25, 2013, 04:51:13 PM
And .....

(http://www.filmuniverzum.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/swastika-moon-base-in-iron-sky-600x300.jpeg) NO

 :D
:rofl :rofl
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Ardy123 on July 25, 2013, 04:52:15 PM
I would be speaking out of turn if I tried to guess, if a plane should or could be included, into the game.  That is up to HiTech and Pyro.
so basicly we wont ever get sheep because HiTech got married?  :cry :cry
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: 33Vortex on July 25, 2013, 05:03:09 PM
Though about half of them were of the civillian version used by the Lufthansa  :old:

(http://modelingmadness.com/review/axis/luft/sczedo335pf.jpg)


 :rofl
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: whiteman on July 25, 2013, 05:57:56 PM
It was a 'run-like Hades' story with a 'whew' ending for the German test pilot if it's the same story I think I kinda recall.  :D

Yes, that one :D

Yet April is the same time the all these 152 are buzzing around    :lol

Thats by all you experts? The fact is we simply do not know...... and 1 chance encounter prolly means there more around <like cops>.

We can see that there was a cannon version with lots of dirt and oil stains, making it more possible than just a prototype wouldnt you say?

I would,

I'm going off the one and only story I've read of it being sited, unconfirmed and by a pilot that apparently liked to spice up stories, and that single Do 335 only. No other encounters that day mention two, thats an assumption on your part that maybe 1 was in the area and then we can assume it was escorted by He162's while were at it. Find service records of it's operational use is all you have to do. You'd have better luck with the F7F and F8F.


Here is another thread on the Do 335, you can play the part of EVZ.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,326133.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,326133.0.html)
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: fullmetalbullet on July 25, 2013, 08:15:32 PM
Yes, that one :D

I'm going off the one and only story I've read of it being sited, unconfirmed and by a pilot that apparently liked to spice up stories, and that single Do 335 only. No other encounters that day mention two, thats an assumption on your part that maybe 1 was in the area and then we can assume it was escorted by He162's while were at it. Find service records of it's operational use is all you have to do. You'd have better luck with the F7F and F8F.


Here is another thread on the Do 335, you can play the part of EVZ.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,326133.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,326133.0.html)


the thing about the F7F though is it was in a squadron and in route to okinawa from iwo jima the day the japanese surrendered. that that is clearly in service during the second world war. despite what gyrene saying as "active squadron" any squadron in a combat zone is an active squadron.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: gyrene81 on July 25, 2013, 08:26:08 PM
the thing about the F7F though is it was in a squadron and in route to okinawa from iwo jima the day the japanese surrendered. that that is clearly in service during the second world war. despite what gyrene saying as "active squadron" any squadron in a combat zone is an active squadron.
but that squadron wasn't in a combat zone...nice try though.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Arlo on July 25, 2013, 08:26:58 PM
(http://images.edumart.com/large/T_A67343_Stretch.jpg)

 ;) :lol
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Volron on July 25, 2013, 09:40:01 PM
And .....

(http://www.filmuniverzum.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/swastika-moon-base-in-iron-sky-600x300.jpeg) NO

 :D

 :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: chris3 on July 26, 2013, 04:10:27 AM
hi

i would like to see the 335 or other prototyps in  the game, just made them aviable like the me163 only on one airfield, so this is the test airfild for the prototyps. why not.

cu christian
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: fullmetalbullet on July 26, 2013, 06:53:23 AM
but that squadron wasn't in a combat zone...nice try though.

So the pacific was not a combat zone gyrene? man tell that to the guys in the pacific during WW2.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: PanosGR on July 26, 2013, 06:54:49 AM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d5/Arado_E.381_I_3d.svg/490px-Arado_E.381_I_3d.svg.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/AradoE555.png/800px-AradoE555.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Avar234_7.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/70/He_111_-_BV_143a_Test_%281941%29.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/BV246.jpg/800px-BV246.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/BvP170_Holzmodell1.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Blohm_%26_Voss_P_188-01.jpg/800px-Blohm_%26_Voss_P_188-01.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/ModellPhoto_BvP194.02.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/ModellPhoto_BvP208_zens.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Blohm_und_Voss_P.211.02.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Junkers_EF-128.JPG/800px-Junkers_EF-128.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/BV_P-213.jpg/800px-BV_P-213.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Dornier_Pfeil2.jpg/800px-Dornier_Pfeil2.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/DFS-39-kl1_Modell_zensiert.png/800px-DFS-39-kl1_Modell_zensiert.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Avkomet_10.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7a/Dfs346_box.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/Flettner_Fl265_model.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/Flettner_282_Modell_02.jpg/800px-Flettner_282_Modell_02.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/30/Ta183-1.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Fw_191A_on_Ground_hr_ExCC.jpg/800px-Fw_191A_on_Ground_hr_ExCC.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/98/FW_TA-238_pic1.JPG/800px-FW_TA-238_pic1.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/Fw_Trieflugel.jpg/665px-Fw_Trieflugel.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/Focke-Wulf_Volksj%C3%A4ger-5.JPG/800px-Focke-Wulf_Volksj%C3%A4ger-5.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/Focke-Wulf_1000x1000x1000_b.jpg/800px-Focke-Wulf_1000x1000x1000_b.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/27/Project7s.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Fw_SuperLorin_Modell_kl3.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Focke_Rochen_drawing.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Heinkel_he_176_san_diego_air_and_space_museum.jpg/800px-Heinkel_he_176_san_diego_air_and_space_museum.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Flughafen_Rostock-Laage1.JPG/800px-Flughafen_Rostock-Laage1.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/He280.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/HeP1077Julia_1.JPG)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/HeP1077Romeo_1.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/HE_P-1078.JPG/800px-HE_P-1078.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Heinkel_P.1079A_model.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Heinkel_Wespe.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Heinkel_Lerche.jpg/749px-Heinkel_Lerche.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Henschel_Hs_132_wiki.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/51/Horten_Ho_IX_line_drawing.svg/441px-Horten_Ho_IX_line_drawing.svg.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Horten_H_XVIII.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/Junkers_Ju_322_Mammut_-_drawing.svg/655px-Junkers_Ju_322_Mammut_-_drawing.svg.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Bundesarchiv_Bild_141-2472%2C_Flugzeug_Junkers_Ju_290_A-7.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Ju288.jpg/800px-Ju288.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/Junkers_JU-390_in_flight.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Modellphoto_Ju287V1_1.png/800px-Modellphoto_Ju287V1_1.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ad/BV_P-194_pic2.JPG/800px-BV_P-194_pic2.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/Esquema_JU_Ef132.JPG/800px-Esquema_JU_Ef132.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/Alekseev_tipo_150-1.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Lippisch_P-13A.JPG/800px-Lippisch_P-13A.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/LiP15_1.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/LiP20_1.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Messerschmitt261zentral6.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Me_309.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Messerschmitt_Me_609_model.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Bf109TL_3Seiten.jpg/800px-Bf109TL_3Seiten.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Me_p1079-16-d-d.jpg/800px-Me_p1079-16-d-d.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Messerschmitt_P.1099.png)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Messerschmitt_ME_1101.JPG/800px-Messerschmitt_ME_1101.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/Messerschmitt_ME_P-1106_pic2.JPG/800px-Messerschmitt_ME_P-1106_pic2.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Me_P_1110.jpg/800px-Me_P_1110.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/Messerschmitt_ME_P-1111.JPG/800px-Messerschmitt_ME_P-1111.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/MeP1112_3.JPG)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b5/Skoda-Kauba_P14-01.jpg/800px-Skoda-Kauba_P14-01.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/Sombold_So_344-2.jpg/800px-Sombold_So_344-2.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/86/Zep_fliegende_panzerfaust-d.jpg/800px-Zep_fliegende_panzerfaust-d.jpg)NO
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/Zeppelin_rammer-64.jpg/800px-Zeppelin_rammer-64.jpg)NO

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Luftwaffe_aircraft_prototype_projects_during_World_War_II

Just say NO to (http://www.migman.com/sw/SWOTL/pics/SWOTL_CD.jpg)

 :D
(http://)(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x39/PanosGR/bsflag.gif) (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/PanosGR/media/bsflag.gif.html)
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: PanosGR on July 26, 2013, 06:56:06 AM
He-162 was operational. End of story.

(http://)(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x39/PanosGR/1621_zps2382a41d.jpg) (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/PanosGR/media/1621_zps2382a41d.jpg.html)
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: kilo2 on July 26, 2013, 07:20:31 AM
He-162 was operational. End of dtory.

(http://)(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x39/PanosGR/1621_zps2382a41d.jpg) (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/PanosGR/media/1621_zps2382a41d.jpg.html)


YES
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: gyrene81 on July 26, 2013, 07:40:27 AM
So the pacific was not a combat zone gyrene? man tell that to the guys in the pacific during WW2.
:rolleyes: if you're talking about vmf-533, they didn't get the planes until the day before the japanese surrender, they didn't get to fly a single mission in them. neither did vmf-531 which was the squadron tasked with ferrying them from guam to okinawa. if you can find verifiable resources with squadron numbers to confirm that a small number of f7f-3p's were deployed in combat sorties beginning in may-june of 1945, i'll concede the case to your incessant nagging about it.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: fullmetalbullet on July 26, 2013, 08:58:17 AM
:rolleyes: if you're talking about vmf-533, they didn't get the planes until the day before the japanese surrender, they didn't get to fly a single mission in them. neither did vmf-531 which was the squadron tasked with ferrying them from guam to okinawa. if you can find verifiable resources with squadron numbers to confirm that a small number of f7f-3p's were deployed in combat sorties beginning in may-june of 1945, i'll concede the case to your incessant nagging about it.

It dosnt matter if they were in combat or not. HiTech would like it if they were in service. and the fact of the matter is they were in service during WW2. and by any definition of the term combat zone, regardless if they fired a shot or not. those squadrons were in a combat zone. that is what a theater of war is a combat zone. now for the Do 335 that i will agree never was in service because it never left prototype stage. however the F7F did leave prototype stage and did enter service during the second world war. i dont believe an aircraft that did not do any fighting but did enter service should be left out of consideration for addition to Aces High.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: SirNuke on July 26, 2013, 09:31:29 AM
scrap that german 'what if' junk and give us the meteor, end of story!
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: gyrene81 on July 26, 2013, 10:49:02 AM
It dosnt matter if they were in combat or not. HiTech would like it if they were in service. and the fact of the matter is they were in service during WW2. and by any definition of the term combat zone, regardless if they fired a shot or not. those squadrons were in a combat zone. that is what a theater of war is a combat zone. now for the Do 335 that i will agree never was in service because it never left prototype stage. however the F7F did leave prototype stage and did enter service during the second world war. i dont believe an aircraft that did not do any fighting but did enter service should be left out of consideration for addition to Aces High.
if the qualification is "in service" means simply being assigned to "active combat squadrons" then no argument from me, there are other planes that would fit that description as well. but if "in service" means had to be in combat zone...you need to check again. by the time the f7fs were deployed the "combat zone" was mainland japan.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: whiteman on July 26, 2013, 10:51:23 AM
i dont believe an aircraft that did not do any fighting but did enter service should be left out of consideration for addition to Aces High.

I think an aircraft should be added if they had a role in the war, 7F7 and F8F did not. If the game was Occupation of Japan High they'ed be first on my list.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Tank-Ace on July 26, 2013, 11:19:53 AM
i dont believe an aircraft that did not do any fighting but did enter service should be left out of consideration for addition to Aces High.

All I hear is "but I want it..."
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: bozon on July 26, 2013, 11:59:12 AM
AH is already spead over a too wide time priod from 1939 to the last day of wwii. It is already full of planes that appears in the last weeks of the war and had zero impact even if they did see action. No need to extend it to post war, then Korea in one game. This is just too much.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Zacherof on July 26, 2013, 12:56:31 PM
scrap that german 'what if' junk and give us the meteor, end of story!
Agreed :rofl
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Arlo on July 26, 2013, 01:16:19 PM
It dosnt matter if they were in combat or not. HiTech would like it if they were in service. and the fact of the matter is they were in service during WW2. and by any definition of the term combat zone, regardless if they fired a shot or not. those squadrons were in a combat zone. that is what a theater of war is a combat zone. now for the Do 335 that i will agree never was in service because it never left prototype stage. however the F7F did leave prototype stage and did enter service during the second world war. i dont believe an aircraft that did not do any fighting but did enter service should be left out of consideration for addition to Aces High.

That is a rather long-winded contradiction but it ended well anyways.  :D :aok
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Mister Fork on July 26, 2013, 01:24:46 PM
And .....

(http://www.filmuniverzum.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/swastika-moon-base-in-iron-sky-600x300.jpeg) NO

 :D
Buahahahahahahahahha!  Blew coffee right out my nose...  :lol

Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Arlo on July 26, 2013, 01:25:35 PM
Buahahahahahahahahha!  Blew coffee right out my nose...  :lol


Ouch. Thad had to hurt. (Hope not bad.)  :D
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: PanosGR on July 26, 2013, 01:29:06 PM
Agreed :rofl
DOH!

(http://)(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x39/PanosGR/DOH_zpsd5468aa8.jpeg) (http://s186.photobucket.com/user/PanosGR/media/DOH_zpsd5468aa8.jpeg.html)
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: kano on July 27, 2013, 03:20:57 AM
scrap that german 'what if' junk and give us the meteor, end of story!

+1
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Zacherof on July 27, 2013, 07:16:17 AM
He117 would be awesome to have :aok
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Karnak on July 27, 2013, 08:27:49 AM
What is an He117?   :P
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Lusche on July 27, 2013, 08:44:58 AM
What is an He117?   :P

A failure  :old:
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: 33Vortex on July 27, 2013, 09:19:23 AM
He 177 however, would be interesting. The only bomber that could operate in the skies over the Kursk area in '43 unmolested. Speed made it difficult to intercept, the defensive armament discouraged VVS fighters to the point it was largely ignored. The He177 was no failure, but problems with the engines plagued the type until it was finally corrected just before the end of the war.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Lusche on July 27, 2013, 09:29:37 AM
The He177 was no failure,

The basic problem of the He 177 project was the concept. The plagued engines were just a result of that, the requirement that a heavy bomber should be capable of dive bombing. The British learned fast from their Manchester "twin engine" debacle and created the Lancaster. The Germans tried to fix the plane, instead of giving in and fix their concept. Which resulted in low production numbers, countless mishaps and losses due to technical problems for most of it's service time.
When the plane was finally getting acceptable reliability, their was neither fuel, production capacity nor experienced crews left.

So yes, the whole HE 177 project was an utter failure and a huge waste of resources. Especially if you consider that Heinkel had as early as 1940 proposed a 4 mot version (He 277) to fix the engine problem. But of course, this bomber would not have been dive bombing capable (which in the end the huge 177 didn't really practice either...)

Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: 33Vortex on July 28, 2013, 07:18:04 AM
Yep, just another faceplant for the RLM, a splendid display of bureaucratic ineptitude.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: jeffdn on July 28, 2013, 08:07:56 AM
Yep, just another faceplant for the RLM, a splendid display of bureaucratic ineptitude.
I wonder why the Germans seemed so obsessed with having "jack of all trades" type airplanes. If the Me-262 had been a bomber interceptor and only that from the beginning, if the He-177 had just been a level bomber, etc., etc., the war would've been different. But instead they designed all these planes that never flew, or only flew at the very end of the war, while the core of their fighter units remained one plane that first flew in 1936 and another that first flew in 1939.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Lusche on July 28, 2013, 10:10:30 AM
I wonder why the Germans seemed so obsessed with having "jack of all trades" type airplanes.


Mostly economy.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Karnak on July 28, 2013, 10:41:26 AM
I wonder why the Germans seemed so obsessed with having "jack of all trades" type airplanes.
The Mosquito must have made them turn green and yellow with envy.....

Oh.  :p
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Krusty on July 28, 2013, 04:27:36 PM
Per Hitech, Pyro, and various posts over the years from HTC people that make such statements with authority, the requirements are (and YES, they have their own internal requirements for justifying including a new plane in the game -- WE may not have any standards, but thankfully HTC does):

Must be a plane that was in PRODUCTION (not prototype models, actual production variants sent to units).
Must have served at least in the unit level (not 1 plane, the minimum level of participation is a solid unit of planes)
Must have seen action in WW2 (self explanatory -- no stateside trainers, no noncombat variants, etc).

Those aren't made up. They're only DENIED by folks that go "I want this!!" to something that falls outside these criteria.


Oh... kind of like this thread. I see.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Karnak on July 28, 2013, 04:34:22 PM
Krusty,

As much as I preferred that list of requirements, HiTech kinda shot it down.  I'll see if I can find his quote.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Krusty on July 28, 2013, 04:36:27 PM
If he shot it down, that's a reversal from his own comments from before.

I went around pulling together quotes of the criteria a couple of times before, but it was many years ago and I don't have them anymore.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Karnak on July 28, 2013, 04:55:30 PM
I can't find it.

What I remembered was a post saying simply that they prefer for it to have seen combat in WWII.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: EagleDNY on July 28, 2013, 06:28:07 PM
I've always been a fan of the Do-335, and have read a lot of the history of the development and testing.   As much as I wish it had been deployed in squadron strength and seen combat, it just was not to be.  The Do-335 had teething problems, and there was the inevitable interference of the German military bureaucracy.   By the time they were ready to go into production and deployment, the Luftwaffe had already decided that they were going full bore into Jets as quickly as they could.   The first A1s as well as some of the prototypes of what would have been the B models were sent to Oberpfaffenhoffen in 1945, but by then the Luftwaffe was pretty much done.  I can only find a couple of examples where the test pilots had to run from the overwhelming allied air cover, and nothing to indicate they ever shot anything down.   

There probably would have been a limited production run of 335s if the war had continued, but the Germans wanted the Do-335 B models more than the As.  There was also some development on hybrid designs using 1 prop and 1 jet engine, and some variants planned with turboprops and counter-rotating aft propellers.     

The German rides are at a bit of a disadvantage in AH because the war for them ends in April of 45, and pretty much nothing new for them could be deployed in 45 with the lack of trained pilots, fuel, the destroyed transportation system, etc. etc. etc.   I think there are a few things that they would have deployed if they could - things that I wouldn't mind seeing AH add, and the Do-335 is one of them.

Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Karnak on July 28, 2013, 06:38:12 PM
The German rides are at a bit of a disadvantage in AH because the war for them ends in April of 45, and pretty much nothing new for them could be deployed in 45 with the lack of trained pilots, fuel, the destroyed transportation system, etc. etc. etc.   I think there are a few things that they would have deployed if they could - things that I wouldn't mind seeing AH add, and the Do-335 is one of them.


What do we have that was introduced after April, 1945?  Certainly nothing British, Russian or Japanese.  F4U-4 maybe?

I'm hard pressed to agree that the Germans are disadvantaged in AH any more than the Allies are by, due to clearly being about to win the war, not pushing their hotrods into combat.

From a game perspective, not a history perspective, I wish the IJN had not interfered with Jiro Horikoshi's A7M so that it could be in the game to help counter the dominance of late war American stuff over the Japanese, but twas not to be.  The Navy insisted it use the same 1900hp engine that the N1K used, Horikoshi and Mitsubishi objected saying it would be underpowered, the Navy insisted and found the A7M1 to be unacceptable due to being underpowered and told Mitsubishi to redesign it to take the 2200hp engine Mitsubishi and Horikoshi had wanted to use in the first place.  By the time the redesign was done there were B-29s bombing Japan and, if I recall, an earthquake also delayed things in 1945. End result, seven A7M2s built, none in service.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: chris3 on July 29, 2013, 04:11:24 AM
hi

just how i asked, why shouldn t it posible to implement prototyp or planed aircraft on only one base on the map. Sure there are a lot of aircrafts that are mission in AH. but it also should be posible to make it posible that these aircraft could get a chance. thay can sit beside ouer me163, why not.

cu christian
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: 33Vortex on July 29, 2013, 06:38:00 AM
Well, from a gameplay and game dev perspective, as well as marketing. It would be interesting to have a ahistorical 1945 (or 1946) arena. For all the fans of what-if scenarios. However for many reasons it'd be wise to keep the post-war rides separate from the main arena, or at the very least perk them to absurd levels and available only on one base near HQ. As with all additions to the planeset, it makes more scenarios possible.

I for one, would like to see more historical maps added, particularly of the ostfront which is incredibly vast. A map of the Leningrad (St Petersburg) region, including Novgorod, Velikiye Luki, Vishniy Volochek and Tikhvin would make pretty much the entire JG54 operational area in the east available.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Karnak on July 29, 2013, 08:38:45 AM
hi

just how i asked, why shouldn t it posible to implement prototyp or planed aircraft on only one base on the map. Sure there are a lot of aircrafts that are mission in AH. but it also should be posible to make it posible that these aircraft could get a chance. thay can sit beside ouer me163, why not.

cu christian
Performance data won't be available for planned aircraft or for many prototypes.

From my perspective, I don't want to be forced into ultra-fantasy whatif aircraft just to have a chance, it is one of the reasons the free to play, Spitfire Mk I vs F-86 games have no appeal to me.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: jeffdn on July 29, 2013, 09:18:59 AM
Well, from a gameplay and game dev perspective, as well as marketing. It would be interesting to have a ahistorical 1945 (or 1946) arena. For all the fans of what-if scenarios. However for many reasons it'd be wise to keep the post-war rides separate from the main arena, or at the very least perk them to absurd levels and available only on one base near HQ. As with all additions to the planeset, it makes more scenarios possible.

I for one, would like to see more historical maps added, particularly of the ostfront which is incredibly vast. A map of the Leningrad (St Petersburg) region, including Novgorod, Velikiye Luki, Vishniy Volochek and Tikhvin would make pretty much the entire JG54 operational area in the east available.

I was just playing a scenario last night with an enormous map of the UK/France/Belgium/Denmark/Netherlands/Western Germany area on the SEC Battle of Britain thing that was going on, and it was awesome. I'd love more maps of that type, accurate and with cool terrain textures, snow as appropriate, etc. It really helps with the immersion.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Zacherof on July 29, 2013, 12:29:54 PM
Staged missions are your friend!
When me and FBcrabby get bored we go in the ca and load a mission.
Sometimes it's us 2 with 8 AI against 20 formations of bombers
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: muzik on July 29, 2013, 09:32:05 PM
hi

i would like to see the 335 or other prototyps in  the game, just made them aviable like the me163 only on one airfield, so this is the test airfild for the prototyps. why not.

cu christian

I have no interest in the 335, but this is a rational solution. The truth is new planes or vehicles, especially prototypes, are the last thing
AH needs.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Nashorn on July 30, 2013, 05:54:08 AM
IMHO, we need a lot more early war planes tanks and other early things before we start hitting up the Luft46 rides strat raids are already time consuming and I wouldn't want to up a Lancaster and fly for two hours only to be attacked by adolf hitlers Luftwaffe wet dream
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: 33Vortex on August 01, 2013, 05:13:52 AM
Well, placing them on the one HQ airfield would not do it either, they'd have to be perked as well and fairly high too. Think, higher than Me262. Which leads us to the question whether it'd be worth the effort for HTC to make the model in the first place. It could have some effect in marketing though, and seeing how they've introduced achievements for the xbox indoctrinated reward junkies it would be something that kept people in the game perhaps.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: EagleDNY on August 01, 2013, 01:48:10 PM
What do we have that was introduced after April, 1945?  Certainly nothing British, Russian or Japanese.  F4U-4 maybe?

I'm hard pressed to agree that the Germans are disadvantaged in AH any more than the Allies are by, due to clearly being about to win the war, not pushing their hotrods into combat.

From a game perspective, not a history perspective, I wish the IJN had not interfered with Jiro Horikoshi's A7M so that it could be in the game to help counter the dominance of late war American stuff over the Japanese, but twas not to be.  The Navy insisted it use the same 1900hp engine that the N1K used, Horikoshi and Mitsubishi objected saying it would be underpowered, the Navy insisted and found the A7M1 to be unacceptable due to being underpowered and told Mitsubishi to redesign it to take the 2200hp engine Mitsubishi and Horikoshi had wanted to use in the first place.  By the time the redesign was done there were B-29s bombing Japan and, if I recall, an earthquake also delayed things in 1945. End result, seven A7M2s built, none in service.

The F4U-4 is clearly the American example, and you are correct to point out that the allies didn't rush some things to the front that they would have had the war gone into 1946 (and that list is a big one).  The allies would be looking at things like the -4, F7F, F8F, P80, Meteor, even hotter Spits, etc.  All these would have been showing up in late 45 / early 46 at the front.   I think what I am trying to get at is that the normal stream of new aircraft that would have been deployed by the Luftwaffe ended earlier than that, and really earlier than April 45. 
Really for the Luftwaffe, go back to January '45 and in the aftermath of Operation Bodenplatte there wasn't much left.   With pilots, fuel, and their airfields secure, the Luftwaffe would have been putting up more Me-262 variants, plus stuff like the He-162, the Do-335 (in limited numbers), better Ar-234 models, a 1.98 ata rated 109K using C3 fuel, etc.  You are also correct to point out the Japanese had the same problem - military bureaucracy is universal. 

From a game perspective would a perked Do-335 or A7M2 be that bad?  Part of being a cartoon pilot is answering that what-if question.  What if B-29s had to face Me-262s and Me163s?  It cost perkies to find out, but it was fun. 

   
   

Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: Ardy123 on August 01, 2013, 02:45:39 PM
imho, this is all irrelevant. If we all have 1946 planes or 1939 planes, the issue seems to be that the gameplay lacks a proper balancing system, hence why players are hunting for an illusinary advantage. All fail to realize that you will be in the same place... we all could just up 1946 era planes.. same chaos, just at higher speeds.
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: WWhiskey on August 01, 2013, 03:35:48 PM
The last comment I saw from HiTech about it was that they want it to have seen combat.
by that criteria we could have the Super Pershing!
Might as well,, then it could set in the hanger next to the tiger 2  :bolt:
Title: Re: German fighter Dornier 335
Post by: MK-84 on August 01, 2013, 07:13:39 PM
imho, this is all irrelevant. If we all have 1946 planes or 1939 planes, the issue seems to be that the gameplay lacks a proper balancing system, hence why players are hunting for an illusinary advantage. All fail to realize that you will be in the same place... we all could just up 1946 era planes.. same chaos, just at higher speeds.


I just want to fly the thing, it looks like crazy fun :x