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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: wrench on July 23, 2013, 06:43:43 AM

Title: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: wrench on July 23, 2013, 06:43:43 AM
Please give us a few helicopters!....oh yea you know you'd like to fly and shoot down helicopters!!!  :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_helicopters_used_in_World_War_II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_helicopters_used_in_World_War_II)

Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: wrench on July 23, 2013, 08:10:27 AM
List from the Wikipedia article

Germany
Some types in use of Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine
 Focke-Wulf Fw C.30A (La Cierva C.30A) (General Purpose autogyro)
 Focke-Wulf Fw 186 (Liaison autogyro)
 Focke-Wulf Autogyro-Helicopter (Experimental prototype)
 Focke-Wulf Fw 61 (Experimental helicopter)
 Focke Achgelis Fa 330 "Bachstelze" (Autogyro-Glider/Observation vehicle)
 Focke Achgelis Fa 266 "Hornisse" (Civil Transport helicopter), re-designated as Fa 223 in 1939 before the first prototype flew.
 Focke Achgelis Fa 223 "Drache" (General Use/Transport helicopter)
 Focke Achgelis (DFS) Fa 225 (Assault-autogyro glider)
 Focke Achgelis Fa 284 (Flying Crane/Heavy Transport helicopter) prototype designed but not completed
 Flettner Fl 184 (Two-Place autogyro)
 Flettner Fl 185 Heligyro (helicopter-autogyro)
 Flettner Fl 265 (Twin Rotor Liaison-Observation helicopter, pioneer of synchropter confguration)
 Flettner Fl 282A/B "Kolibri" (attack synchropter)
 Flettner Fl 339 (Reconnaissance helicopter)
 Nagler-Hafner RI Revoplane(Experimental helicopter)
 Nagler-Hafner RII Revoplane(Single-place helicopter)
 Nagler-Hafner Heliogyro (Autogyro-helicopter)
 Nagler-Rolz RI (Single-place helicopter)
 Nagler-Rolz RII (Single-place helicopter)
 Nagler-Rolz NR 54 (One-Man portable helicopter)
 Nagler-Rolz Nr 55 (One-Man portable helicopter)
 Baumgartl "Heliofly" I (Light Autogyro-glider)
 Baumgartl "Heliofly" III-57 (Two Contra-rotating helicopter)
 Baumgartl "Heliofly" III-59 (Little and light disarmable helicopter)
 Wiener Neustadter (Doblohff) WNF 342 (Tip-Jet helicopter)
 Weserflug P.1003/1 VTOL (Vertical TakeOff and Landing) aircraft project
 AEG (Schimdt) Electric-Tethered Helicopter (Unmanned Vehicle for raising radio antenna or Manned aerial observation platform)

United States
In use by USAAF, US Navy and USCG
 Kellet KD-1A (La Cierva C.30A) (General Use Autogyro)
 Sikorsky VS-300 (Experimental helicopter)
 Sikorsky R-4B "Hoverfly" (General Applications helicopter)
 Sikorsky YR-4B "Hoverfly" (Ambulance/Sea Patrol helicopter)
 Sikorsky R-5A (Rescue/Reconnaissance helicopter)
 Platt-LePage XR-1 (Experimental helicopter)
 Kellet Cobra XX-9 (Attack helicopter)

Great Britain
In use by RAF and FAA
 Avro 671 "Rota" Mk.1 (La Cierva C.30A) (General Purpose Autogyro)
 Weir W.5/6 (Helicopter based on Fw 61 Design)
 Bristol "Heliogyro" RI/II (Experimental helicopter)
 Sikorsky "Hoverfly" I (YR-4B/R-4B) (General Purpose helicopter)

Canada
In use for RCAF
 Avro 671 "Rota" Mk.1 (La Cierva C.30A) (General Purpose Autogyro)
 Sikorsky R-4B "Hoverfly" (General Purpose Helicopter)

Soviet Union
In use for Red Army and V-VS
 TsAGI (Kamov) A-7/7bis (Liaison and Observation Autogyro)

Japan
In use by Japanese Army/Navy Air Service
 KD-1a Kayaba KA-2 KA
 Kayaba Ka-1
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: 5PointOh on July 23, 2013, 08:44:53 AM
-1
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: BuckShot on July 23, 2013, 09:13:19 AM
Could be fun. Put it in the storch category and then perk it so we don't see choppers all over the place.
Supplies and smoke, no guns.
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: Tinkles on July 23, 2013, 09:44:15 AM
Could be fun. Put it in the storch category and then perk it so we don't see choppers all over the place.
Supplies and smoke, no guns.

Fi's aren't perked and we don't see them everywhere  :neener:

Just supps and smoke, maybe a 303 in the front (or back) to annoy tanks  :devil

Tinkles

<<S>>
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: Arlo on July 23, 2013, 10:23:13 AM
The use of helicopters (auto-gyros somewhat but not entirely the exception) during WWII was still so experimental and limited as to put them in the 'X-plane' category (as illustrated in the wiki examples given). Even without such classification, lighter than air craft probably stand a better chance (if they could serve a practical function in the game, which I doubt).
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: MrKrabs on July 23, 2013, 03:52:38 PM
GET TO THE CHOPPA!!

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4OYGjUrdllo/SJkk-KJnxSI/AAAAAAAAF5I/SWdMnZ9cD_s/s400/gettothechoppa.jpg)




-10
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: Bino on July 23, 2013, 03:56:03 PM
If HTC adds only the La Cierva C.30A autogyro, that will account for nearly all of the operational "rotary wing" aircraft of WWII.   ;)
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: Arlo on July 23, 2013, 04:41:31 PM
If HTC adds only the La Cierva C.30A autogyro, that will account for nearly all of the operational "rotary wing" aircraft of WWII.   ;)


I can't even think of a practical event role for it, though.  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: skorpx1 on July 23, 2013, 04:45:44 PM
No, Tyrannis....
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: BBP on July 23, 2013, 05:40:43 PM
I would enjoy having troops on the ground and sending at a copter rescue. This may be out of Hi techs ability but think of the scenarios!
PS..............Don't let Arlo spoil your effort here.
+3


KIMO
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: Arlo on July 23, 2013, 06:29:34 PM
I would enjoy having troops on the ground and sending at a copter rescue. This may be out of Hi techs ability but think of the scenarios!
PS..............Don't let Arlo spoil your effort here.
+3



KIMO :)

No offense, sir, but you seem to take more offense than warrants.  :D If you've developed a personal issue with me, please bear in mind  that wishlist threads are open to player discussion on merit as much as (if not more) than any other thread in any other sub-forum. Please reconsider projecting your hurt feelings over a difference of opinion in every thread you happen to see my name in. Just a suggestion. :) :salute
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: Rino on July 23, 2013, 06:49:06 PM
If HTC adds only the La Cierva C.30A autogyro, that will account for nearly all of the operational "rotary wing" aircraft of WWII.   ;)


     Just FYI, Okinawa, before the end of the war.

(http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae123/f4ephantom/Okinawa45.jpg)

Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: Arlo on July 23, 2013, 07:55:31 PM
Well, Bino did say nearly. :D
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 23, 2013, 08:21:37 PM
The use of helicopters (auto-gyros somewhat but not entirely the exception) during WWII was still so experimental and limited as to put them in the 'X-plane' category (as illustrated in the wiki examples given). Even without such classification, lighter than air craft probably stand a better chance (if they could serve a practical function in the game, which I doubt).

The use of helicopters was more widespread during the war than most think.  At least in the US service, the Sikorsky R-4 saw wide use, from ferrying parts and supplies to the floating aviation repair ships, to medical evacuation and mercy flights.  The R-4 is also the first helicopter to be used for combat rescue when it rescued a down aircrew behind Japanese lines in Burma.  While built in small numbers, I think its operational service during the war elevated it out of the experimental stage and firmly into the operational stage.  At this point, it wasn't the helicopter that was experimental but rather the roles it would and could be used for was still in the experimental stage.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: Eric19 on July 23, 2013, 08:46:07 PM
didn't the germans build the first heli with one engine and 2 spinning rotors I thought it was called something like the Dragonfly or something I can't remember but I saw it on wings of the Luftwaffe on the Military channel
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: Zacherof on July 24, 2013, 12:09:22 AM
Fi's aren't perked and we don't see them everywhere  :neener:

Just supps and smoke, maybe a 303 in the front (or back) to annoy tanks  :devil

Tinkles

<<S>>
If Fbcrabby is online you can bet you might see a mission of storches  :banana:
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: dirtdart on July 24, 2013, 01:41:24 PM
If you had the ability to pick up another player (same with storch), that could be interesting and fun.

I can here the #1 - #10 fighter guys pleading on channel "pleeeeasse com pick me up so my K/D is not effected" (would have to rescore what a bail is worth).
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: Arlo on July 24, 2013, 01:49:36 PM
I might find it amusing the one time I make such a pickup and auger on purpose on the way back to base.
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: dirtdart on July 24, 2013, 01:53:55 PM
I might find it amusing the one time I make such a pickup and auger on purpose on the way back to base.

Ha ha .... that would be epic. The rant alone would probably be youtube worthy.
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: Mister Fork on July 24, 2013, 02:06:50 PM
I'm with Arlo on this - there is operational but experimental, and operational and use in combat.  Helicopters were experimental mostly until Korea.  They saw minimal late war use but not actual operational use in large numbers where you had a SQUADRON of helicopters.

And then comes - what would you actually do with such small short range aircraft?  Mail drops? A box of 5 tank shells? Pick up a downed pilot?

No offense, it would be similar to adding rescue or messenger German Shepherd's. Kinda cool that they were used, but not a practical add for Aces High.

Just saying...
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 24, 2013, 02:15:37 PM
They saw minimal late war use but not actual operational use in large numbers where you had a SQUADRON of helicopters.


Just saying...

The USAAF had an operational helicopter squadron during WW2.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: Mister Fork on July 24, 2013, 02:23:28 PM
The USAAF had an operational helicopter squadron during WW2.

ack-ack
Yeah, saw the Wiki article and I'm having a hard time trying to source which USAAF squadron and with how many helicopters and what model.  I do know the Sikorsky R-4 was using in 1944 on a operational S&R role (Dorr, Robert. History in Blue, Air Force Times, 22 March 2004. )...but that was a single chopper and I can't seem to source the squadron that used them on a operational level like a P-51D.  I also have a bunch more R-4's used  on 6 re-supply ships with two each (12 in total) and were used to ferry aircraft parts.(Williams, Dr. James W. A History Of Army Aviation: From Its Beginnings To The War On Terror. Bloomington, IN: Iuniverse, 2005) - Wki has that one too. And I'm sure Wiki has more examples of their use in ferrying small items around or doing the odd rescue, but nothing like a squadron of 50 R-4's with lots of examples of their operational due day to day.  But I've asked for citation references on Wikipedia to verify the actual squadrons used and dates.

So, it's not a bad idea, just not a practical one.
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 24, 2013, 07:29:52 PM
Yeah, saw the Wiki article and I'm having a hard time trying to source which USAAF squadron and with how many helicopters and what model.  I do know the Sikorsky R-4 was using in 1944 on a operational S&R role (Dorr, Robert. History in Blue, Air Force Times, 22 March 2004. )...but that was a single chopper and I can't seem to source the squadron that used them on a operational level like a P-51D.  I also have a bunch more R-4's used  on 6 re-supply ships with two each (12 in total) and were used to ferry aircraft parts.(Williams, Dr. James W. A History Of Army Aviation: From Its Beginnings To The War On Terror. Bloomington, IN: Iuniverse, 2005) - Wki has that one too. And I'm sure Wiki has more examples of their use in ferrying small items around or doing the odd rescue, but nothing like a squadron of 50 R-4's with lots of examples of their operational due day to day.  But I've asked for citation references on Wikipedia to verify the actual squadrons used and dates.

So, it's not a bad idea, just not a practical one.

100 R-4s were produced (20 went to the USN, 45 to the UK and the remainder to the USAAF)
193 R-6s were produced (36 to the USN, 27 to the UK and remainder to the USAAF)

8 USAAF units flew the R-4 and R-6 during the war, the 10th Air Jungle Rescue Detachment (part of the 1st Air Commandos), 1st through 6th Aircraft Repair Units (Floating) and the 8th Emergency Rescue Squadron (attached to the 14th AF).  

Brief overview of the use of helicopters in China.
The Hoverfly in CBI (http://cbi-theater-3.home.comcast.net/~cbi-theater-3/hoverfly/hoverfly.html)

The 1st through 6th Aircraft Repair Units (Floating) operated in repair fleets like this one during Project Ivory Soap.
Top Secret Project Ivory Soap (http://www.usmm.org/felknorivory.html)

ack-ack
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: Arlo on July 24, 2013, 08:03:00 PM
100 R-4s were produced (20 went to the USN, 45 to the UK and the remainder to the USAAF)
193 R-6s were produced (36 to the USN, 27 to the UK and remainder to the USAAF)

8 USAAF units flew the R-4 and R-6 during the war, the 10th Air Jungle Rescue Detachment (part of the 1st Air Commandos), 1st through 6th Aircraft Repair Units (Floating) and the 8th Emergency Rescue Squadron (attached to the 14th AF).  

Brief overview of the use of helicopters in China.
The Hoverfly in CBI (http://cbi-theater-3.home.comcast.net/~cbi-theater-3/hoverfly/hoverfly.html)

The 1st through 6th Aircraft Repair Units (Floating) operated in repair fleets like this one during Project Ivory Soap.
Top Secret Project Ivory Soap (http://www.usmm.org/felknorivory.html)

ack-ack

Great source discussion but does this mean you see a practical role that warrants the time devoted to modeling them or modeling them before something else .... like multiple chutes from bailing bombers?   :D
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 24, 2013, 08:06:57 PM
Great source discussion but does this mean you see a practical role that warrants the time devoted to modeling them or modeling them before something else .... like multiple chutes from bailing bombers?   :D

I think it would be a waste to model them in game, just like I think it would be a waste to add multiple bailing parachutes to bailing bombers and adding gliders to the game. 

ack-ack
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: Arlo on July 24, 2013, 08:12:51 PM
I think it would be a waste to model them in game, just like I think it would be a waste to add multiple bailing parachutes to bailing bombers and adding gliders to the game. 

ack-ack

Ok, just asking.  :aok
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: guncrasher on July 24, 2013, 10:51:13 PM
If Fbcrabby is online you can bet you might see a mission of storches  :banana:

he already did.  we tried to sink a cv  :cry.

semp
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: Mano on July 24, 2013, 11:22:48 PM
If Fbcrabby is online you can bet you might see a mission of storches  :banana:


Now that made me chuckle. With all those storchs taking off I can hear Flight of the Valkyries in the background.

 :D :D :D
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: MrKrabs on July 25, 2013, 04:22:41 AM
Haha, it's because of doing stupid stuff like that is why the Rv-8 was permanently taken out of the main arena...
Title: Re: Helicopters in WWII
Post by: Arlo on July 25, 2013, 09:56:36 AM
Haha, it's because of doing stupid stuff like that is why the Rv-8 was permanently taken out of the main arena...

When was the RV-8 permanently in the main (or any other) arena? I remember it there for a con night ... once.  :D