Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Gman on July 23, 2013, 01:19:03 PM
-
With all the defense cuts you hear about, and how I've heard from guys like Russian and other members of other BBS's about becoming pilots in the USAF and how it is SO focused on drones etc, it amazes me that they find themselves so short of fighter pilots that they have to offer a 1/4 million in bonus up front in order to secure some. Here in Canada that trades is almost ALWAYS closed out, I guess it'd be a good time to head south for younger Canucks if they are looking for a fighters assignment (yes Canadians can and do easily join the US armed forces, even today still).
http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/07/23/air-force-fighter-pilots-signing-bonus/?test=latestnews&ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000058
-
Gman, here's another aspect to consider. It may be that the culture of the AF leadership is driving them out.
http://www.fighterpilotuniversity.com/wtfo/why-be-a-fighter-pilot
So why are trainee pilots shunning the fast jet community? The post-2008 ‘Qweep’, or career- broadening requirements, are a huge cause. This requires pilots to get their master’s degree, have community involvement, etc, on top of deployment, training, and platform-centric requirements. The USAF has even instituted the Director of Operations Screen- ing Boards and openly says that those not being promoted early are not considered for further enhancement. Thus, in the active- duty air force career broadening needs to be complete in order to compete. Those not selected are, in many cases, simply headed in the direction of the ANG or out of the active-duty air force between the 8- to 11-year mark. A friend of mine in the ANG calls active- duty career broadening the best recruiting tool he has to get pilots to join the guard, as the premium is placed on that and not how capable and proficient the pilot is.
So now the important thing is to do a little flying but spend a lot of time building houses with Habitat for Humanity?
-
The Air Force and other military branches have put into a place a rigorous weeding out process for pilots over the last 60+ years especially for those who need corrective lens. That has made the career of military jet pilot a struggle. Many choose not to undertake that journey and opt for civilian and private flying careers.
Plus, the space shuttle program has been closed and the added incentive of being a fighter pilot chosen to fly the space shuttle has been grounded.
Finally, the long deployments and short turnarounds have made family life a struggle.
The question every jet pilot faces now is why fly a 50 million dollar or more jet when an enemy country can send up a million dollar drone and ram you kamikaze style?
-
The Air Force and other military branches have put into a place a rigorous weeding out process for pilots over the last 60+ years especially for those who need corrective lens. That has made the career of military jet pilot a struggle. Many choose not to undertake that journey and opt for civilian and private flying careers.
Plus, the space shuttle program has been closed and the added incentive of being a fighter pilot chosen to fly the space shuttle has been grounded.
Finally, the long deployments and short turnarounds have made family life a struggle.
The question every jet pilot faces now is why fly a 50 million dollar or more jet when an enemy country can send up a million dollar drone and ram you kamikaze style?
Learn all this in the Civil Air Patrol did you?
-
The Air Force and other military branches have put into a place a rigorous weeding out process for pilots over the last 60+ years especially for those who need corrective lens. That has made the career of military jet pilot a struggle. Many choose not to undertake that journey and opt for civilian and private flying careers.
Plus, the space shuttle program has been closed and the added incentive of being a fighter pilot chosen to fly the space shuttle has been grounded.
Finally, the long deployments and short turnarounds have made family life a struggle.
The question every jet pilot faces now is why fly a 50 million dollar or more jet when an enemy country can send up a million dollar drone and ram you kamikaze style?
You don't have a clue about what you're talking about. Time for you to go to "Receive Only" mode and learn vs. making up fantasy.
-
You don't have a clue about what you're talking about. Time for you to go to "Receive Only" mode and learn vs. making up fantasy.
Fantasy? :headscratch:
Why don't you clarify?
Learn all this in the Civil Air Patrol did you?
That's a great resource when being around active duty Air Force. Life experience gains more knowledge.
Plus, I work next door to the Iowa Air National Guard 185th Air Refueling Wing in Sioux City, Ia. 3rd weekend of the month is Guard weekend. Lots of pretty little female airmen and sgts to talk to with the occasional female brass.
-
Why don't you clarify?
That's a great resource when being around active duty Air Force. Life experience gains more knowledge.
Puma is a retired USAF Fighter Pilot. I'll put my money on his experience and knowledge over your Burger King Checkout Line Intelligence Network any day.
I strapped fighter pilots in jets for 16 years. The only one I ever saw that was worried about getting into NASA was Will Smith on Independence Day. I never heard one admit he would be scared of a drone.
For 60 years the military has had a rigorous weeding out process of pilots? If that was the case they would just simply cut the available slots not waste time and money training people so they could weed them out. You're right about one thing Life Experience does gain more knowledge. When it comes to the USAF you don't have any. If I want to know about the life of a Teenage Civil Air Patrol cadet in the 1980s I'll come to you.
Lots of pretty little female airmen and sgts to talk to with the occasional female brass.
That is pretty sexist statement towards USAF professionals in my book.
Again something you're not and never were.
I'll bet they just swoon over your CAP stories don't they? :lol
-
Uh oh... I'm glad I'm getting my word in now before the thread gets too full.
-
Fantasy? :headscratch:
Why don't you clarify?
That's a great resource when being around active duty Air Force. Life experience gains more knowledge.
Plus, I work next door to the Iowa Air National Guard 185th Air Refueling Wing in Sioux City, Ia. 3rd weekend of the month is Guard weekend. Lots of pretty little female airmen and sgts to talk to with the occasional female brass.
So, that qualifies you and gives you credibility? Not so much. Hanging out next door to an ANG tanker unit and sniffing around the female enlisted troops doesn't make you a credible source of anything. They make things happen at the unit level and are not AF policy experts. The reason there is a shortage of fighter pilots, is a shortage of fighter jets; a decision made by some self proclaimed genius with no military service, no business experience, but with a prolific ability to spew BS and make the mindless believe it. So, be careful about self proclaiming yourself as an authority on something you've never committed to, earned, or sacrificed for others.
Oh, and one more thing genius. One of the projects I was involved with in the USAF was to introduce soft contact lenses into the fighter community. Just for your expert analysis on corrective lenses, USAF pilots are required to have 20/20 uncorrected vision to commission and enter pilot training. After entering, the eyes can degrade, requiring corrective lenses/contacts and the pilot can maintain flying status. There are some facts to compare with your outlandish fantasy statement.
And let's add one more thing that you very obviously have no clue about. USAF pilots who chose to get out, do so for a variety of reasons, one of which is most definitely not that they have to start wearing corrective lenses. Although a real pain in the rear for fighter guys and gals, they are more than happy wear "four eyes" to keep flying. So, again, you are wrong. If you are making this stuff up or someone is feeding you BS, you only make yourself look completely ignorant and foolish by stating it as if you are some sort of authority.
By the way, since we are getting down to it, lose the lame in game name. So far, you only embarrass the Civil Air Patrol, the USAF, and yourself. The first two, I care deeply about and you have no standing whatsoever to tarnish their image. The third, is your problem, and only you can fix that.
-
I'll admit I know nothing about this so this is purely hypothetical (AKA BS) but..
could it be due to the fact that historically many military pilots transitioned to commercial/airline jobs after they were done with their service, but now that commercial pilot pay is low, there are just better career tracks that are more practical? Especially now that the possibility of their military careers will be cut short by drones in the long run?
-
I was invalided for Pilot due to my height. Apparently ejector seats and tall people don't work particularly well together.
But after seeing how little flying hours the USAF, RAAF, RAF and pretty much all the major Air Forces get these days, getting a tertiary education and a job with a high paycheck to allow for pleasure flying seems a better option. And with the increase of civilian flight training in Australia it seems to be the option many people are taking.
The glory days of the fighter pilot are dying. With drones and UAV's getting ever more capable, soon we happy few, we band of armchair wannabes, will be the equivalent of the front-line fighter squadron. Point and click warfare is the way of the future, and it is terrifying how quickly it is evolving to the point where a man in NORAD can fly a Predator drone via satellite over a target and snipe an individual person with a hyper-sonic missile with no risk to anyone other than the USAF's accountants.
The Airline Industry is where most military pilots end up and with pay so low in the regional business its hardly surprising that professional pilots are becoming harder to come by. Captain Sullenburger "Hudson Hero" used some of his pull to try and get a raise for his co-workers, and the only reason he kept his position is because of his fame.
However I will avoid the obvious reason for this decrease in hours due to its political nature... however one could say its a very "cutting" issue.
-
Extra crispy.. Just the way I like them.
-
Some of these responses :rofl :rofl :rofl
:cheers: Oz
-
When we get to the point where our Techno fighters and drones are being disabled with EMP weapons the WW2 fighters will rise again! :rock
:airplane: :airplane: :airplane: :airplane: :airplane:
:airplane: :airplane: :airplane: :airplane: :airplane:
:airplane: :airplane: :airplane: :airplane: :airplane:
-
I like to have a job flying one of the drones . I fly one now that I made that has a 25 mile range .
EDIT: Just had a thought after reading Plawranc last post . Just think in 20 year's we mite be fighting drones in the air . Kind of like we do in game now , That be something .
-
I'll admit I know nothing about this so this is purely hypothetical (AKA BS) but..
could it be due to the fact that historically many military pilots transitioned to commercial/airline jobs after they were done with their service, but now that commercial pilot pay is low, there are just better career tracks that are more practical? Especially now that the possibility of their military careers will be cut short by drones in the long run?
Ah, no! "commercial pilot pay is so low". Where did you come up with the? Obviously not from any sort of factual source.
The drones don't have anything to do with cutting anyone's military service short. The overall size of the force is being reduced by geniuses on the east coast who don't have a grip on reality and the world around them. If a particular individual has been in for some length of time and the "geniuses" start cutting back force size, there is incentive to "cut their military career short" either voluntarily or involuntarily. The Predator drones have nothing to do with it. The "drones" on the east coast do.
Bottom line here is, if you have not spent a considerable time in voluntary service a sacrifice to you country, you don't appreciate the true facts.. If you are basing your "facts" on what you see on TV, read in the papers, or, the oh so accurate Internet blogs, you have been duped with the information "they" want you to think you know as facts.
-
last time I checked, and experienced captain on a commercial airliner could pull a six figure income if they have been in the business long enough
-
I bricked a home for a guy a few year's ago and he was a Fed X Pilot . He told me he had been there 10 year's and was making $250.000.00 a year .
-
$250 a year? Thats awful. If only he were making $250'000.00 :bolt:
-
$250 a year? Thats awful. If only he were making $250'000.00 :bolt:
When you are ribbing a guy for spelling, punctuation or grammer, it helps if you get it right.
$250,000.00
-
Thanks Zoney , I was in a hurry
-
I bricked a home for a guy a few year's ago and he was a Fed X Pilot . He told me he had been there 10 year's and was making $250.000.00 a year .
last time I checked, and experienced captain on a commercial airliner could pull a six figure income if they have been in the business long enough
Ahhhh, finally someone who has the facts before posting. You and Flench are spot on. Thank you gents! I'm acquainted with a guy who started in the airline industry flying Beech 1900s for $11.00 an hour to get his foot in the door. He is now a captain with a major airline making that six figure salary. He tells me a day's flying nets him $1,000 or more without trying too hard.
-
When we get to the point where our Techno fighters and drones are being disabled with EMP weapons the WW2 fighters will rise again! :rock
:airplane: :airplane: :airplane: :airplane: :airplane:
:airplane: :airplane: :airplane: :airplane: :airplane:
:airplane: :airplane: :airplane: :airplane: :airplane:
That's what I'm talking about! :aok
(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/fd667d2883e8def121c15e899a1ec4b1.jpg)
-
If we had our pick , lol .
(http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y313/LittleGeorgeJr/Picture479.jpg) (http://s1025.photobucket.com/user/LittleGeorgeJr/media/Picture479.jpg.html)
-
With all the defense cuts you hear about, and how I've heard from guys like Russian and other members of other BBS's about becoming pilots in the USAF and how it is SO focused on drones etc, it amazes me that they find themselves so short of fighter pilots that they have to offer a 1/4 million in bonus up front in order to secure some. Here in Canada that trades is almost ALWAYS closed out, I guess it'd be a good time to head south for younger Canucks if they are looking for a fighters assignment (yes Canadians can and do easily join the US armed forces, even today still).
http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/07/23/air-force-fighter-pilots-signing-bonus/?test=latestnews&ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000058
Sorry, but your first mistake was reading an article written by HufPo, I mean AOL.
Other than that, I'm not aware of many situations where non US citizens are being offered commissions in our military. I'm not saying it doesn't happen ever, but usually the cases where the citizenship might be waived for a commissioned officer would be a very very highly desired position and one that is extremely hard to come by. For example, someone who speaks/writes multiple Chinese dialects, has extensive studies in intelligence/cyberwarfare and coupled with a fact like his parents aren't from a country the US has intelligence/information concerns with, i.e. in this case, not born in China or to anyone Chinese...
Also, I'd imagine the above holds true for your Canadian military too.
-
Ah, no! "commercial pilot pay is so low". Where did you come up with the? Obviously not from any sort of factual source.
The news, maybe? why the hostility for someone who openly admitted ignorance? :headscratch: :headscratch:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/05/16/20090516airlinepilots-ON.html (http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/05/16/20090516airlinepilots-ON.html)
Roger Cohen, president of the Regional Airline Association, said lower salaries are an industrywide problem. He predicted airlines generally will suffer a shortage of pilots once the economy improves.
while it does claim that 'senior' pilots make 6 figures, how long does it take to get there? what pay grade would incoming military pilots get? (all things I know nothing about).
-
:salute
The news, maybe? why the hostility for someone who openly admitted ignorance? :headscratch: :headscratch:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/05/16/20090516airlinepilots-ON.html (http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/05/16/20090516airlinepilots-ON.html)
while it does claim that 'senior' pilots make 6 figures, how long does it take to get there? what pay grade would incoming military pilots get? (all things I know nothing about).
No hostility intended, just a passion for the truth. You make my point exactly with the news link. No only did the writer mislead everyone reading the article who isn't a part of the industry, you repeated it here. Cohen speaks only to the commuter/regional part of the industry. That is a typical entry point for the airline industry, but not exclusively. Pay rates are low because there are a thousand others in line for the same job.
Pay rates are much better for the majors, much bigger jets, etc. Military pilots get no special deals coming into the airline industry because its a completely different flying environment and they need to build experience in the environment just like everyone else. Upgrade time? Depends on many factors, the economy being a major one. Basically, pay your money and take your chances.
-
Ah, no! "commercial pilot pay is so low". Where did you come up with the? Obviously not from any sort of factual source.
I work in IT, comparing commercial pilot pay grades with what I earn/have earned I'd say it's low. I work in networking and security and earn similar to what a very top end experienced commercial pilot earns. I would call their income low, but taking into account the traiining/medical/responsibilities... the lower tiers definitely look meh (about the same income as entry level->mid range network engineers).
-
I work in IT, comparing commercial pilot pay grades with what I earn/have earned I'd say it's low. I work in networking and security and earn similar to what a very top end experienced commercial pilot earns. I would call their income low, but taking into account the traiining/medical/responsibilities... the lower tiers definitely look meh (about the same income as entry level->mid range network engineers).
What's your hourly pay rate?
-
I think a lot of people may be missing something, how many people become pilots based on financial needs? im sure many would still stay as captains even if they didn't make 6 figs a year, I know I would
-
No replacement for displacement!
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/296487_3119429883069_97605078_n.jpg)
-
Of course major airlines pay considerably higher wages. But I saw many a documentary and a read a few reports that the regional airline pilots in the USA earn very little compared to their international counterparts.
Personally I think flight attendants should get the highest pay. Having to hold that smile for 12 hours on a trans-atlantic must take a serious chunk out of the dental plan.
-
Personally I think flight attendants should get the highest pay. Having to hold that smile for 12 hours on a trans-atlantic must take a serious chunk out of the dental plan.
Hopefully you aren't serious. If it hits the fan, the flight attendant's smile isn't going to have any affect on whether or not the aircraft gets on the ground safely. Pilots are paid for their experience, expertise with the aircraft, ability to stay cool under pressure, and commensurate level of responsibility.
-
Captain Sullenburger "Hudson Hero" used some of his pull to try and get a raise for his co-workers, and the only reason he kept his position is because of his fame.
Complete and utter BS! Either you pulled this out of your posterior or repeated it from someone else that pulled it out of theirs. "Sully" (USAF trained and experienced by the way) demonstrated some of the most exceptional airmanship ever seen in recent aviation history. He kept his job because he remained cool and calm under the most adverse of situations and saved ALL OF HIS PASSENGERS AND CREW. I have an acquaintance who flew F-4s with "Sully" and says he was on of the best he ever flew with. Your statement only demonstrates that you are completely clueless of factual information or don't care and would rather make up fictional BS to try and impress readers on this forum with your expertise. So, which is it?
-
No replacement for displacement!
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/296487_3119429883069_97605078_n.jpg)
Very nice! Just can't have too much power. :aok
-
That article is so wrong, I'm not going to comment. No need to air dirty laundry....
-
Wish I made 250,000.000 a year setting on my butt .
-
Wish I made 250,000.000 a year setting on my butt .
or even sitting :) :bolt:
-
or even sitting :) :bolt:
HAHAHAH , you nut :]
-
I believe Mr. Puma has run all over this post.....I like it. No matter what a man in uniform does some goober on the east coast will always mess with it. We stare at the issues and someone else waves their hand and says do it this way while not even looking at the problem. I for one am sick of it. weary is the word.
-
Complete and utter BS! Either you pulled this out of your posterior or repeated it from someone else that pulled it out of theirs. "Sully" (USAF trained and experienced by the way) demonstrated some of the most exceptional airmanship ever seen in recent aviation history. He kept his job because he remained cool and calm under the most adverse of situations and saved ALL OF HIS PASSENGERS AND CREW. I have an acquaintance who flew F-4s with "Sully" and says he was on of the best he ever flew with. Your statement only demonstrates that you are completely clueless of factual information or don't care and would rather make up fictional BS to try and impress readers on this forum with your expertise. So, which is it?
Are you disagreeing with the entire post of which some is correct or only the part where he mentioned "the only reason he kept his position"?
I do disagree with that part of the post you quoted but I feel you should have singled out the bad part for quoting rather than trash the entire post.
You need to be more specific when you direct your outrage lest others become confused.
It is known he used his fame to try to help those around him and to illuminate some things that are wrong with the system and I applaud him for that.
It is also known that his salary was reduced 40% and the corporate fat cats raided the pension which left him with only the pension guarantee with is next to useless.
I am really glad he used his fame to get that information out there because he, and a lot of other long term pilots really got shafted.......but it was not a result of the water landing.......It would have happened regardless.
The system is flawed and is very much a part of "deregulation" which allowed upstats with zero pension burden to unfairly undercut existing long lived airlines to the point that they could not compete.
The fat cats win and the pilots will continue to lose until something is done......or demanded to be done after a few more high profile crashes from pilots who the system caused to be undertrained, overworked, and underpaid.
-
What's your hourly pay rate?
More than $100/hr. Not going to say how much more.
-
More than $100/hr. Not going to say how much more.
Just curious. My acquaintance's is nearly twice that, not at liberty to state specifics either. Flying for a profession certainly requires a passion for it and dedication to keep plugging away at. :salute
-
You need to be more specific when you direct your outrage lest others become confused.
It was plenty specific. If there was confusion reading it, that was most likely from the smoke that was being blown about. A little outrage is needed when complete fabrication is made up just to make comment on a post in order to sound credible and the writer is getting "facts" from sniffing around an ANG unit's personnel that aren't pilots and don't fly the aircraft in question.
-
Just curious. My acquaintance's is nearly twice that, not at liberty to state specifics either. Flying for a profession certainly requires a passion for it and dedication to keep plugging away at. :salute
I was comparing with regional pays. Keep in mind I'm also salaried, so that was based on an average 40 hour work week, I don't actually get paid by the hour. The only one that paid higher the 12+ years experience flies the big int'l routes type, and not by much.
-
Anyone know if there's any truth to the rumor that they are assigning fighter pilots to drones? I heard this one from a Lt. Col that said some of his friends have left the AF when their next assignment coming out of a fighter slot was to be a drone pilot.
-
Anyone know if there's any truth to the rumor that they are assigning fighter pilots to drones? I heard this one from a Lt. Col that said some of his friends have left the AF when their next assignment coming out of a fighter slot was to be a drone pilot.
It's not a rumor. The AF is also sending UPT graduates straight to UAV assignments. A guy at work (USAF Reservist who is a Predator pilot) told me that the AF sent more UPT grads to UAVs than manned aircraft in the last couple of years. Don't remember which year.