Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Slade on July 31, 2013, 08:29:32 AM
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Guys,
P-40s rock! I have become a much better pilot after spending chunky hours in P-40's in the last few months. I find every version of the P-40 here modeled amazing well and each has its own strengths. P-40s have improved my basic ACM, improved setting up firing solutions etc.
You should invest in flying P-40s while flying your bird of choice.
Good Hunting :salute
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Oh I agree. As long as you can maintain your E to 250+ TAS, you can hang with a lot of fighters. Once you get below that mark you're going to have a hard time keeping up because climbing and accelerating are not the strengths of any of the P40's. The N can do some impressive stuff around that 8-10k mark while it has WEP available, and the F is good at flying fast while above 18k (it drops fast w/o E though, it is a heavy bird). Do not over look the E model either. The C is fun, but it needs to knife fight to get the job done and that 250 TAS issue comes in to play real quick.
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The biggest reason I don't fly the P-40 more is climb rate. It takes 50% longer to get to alt compared to a lot of other planes.
I probably will fly more of it at some point, though. It's one of the planes I've flown the least.
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I enjoy flying the P-40s as well although it's been awhile....thx for the reminder Slade! :salute :cheers:
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I remember a player Makayla? Or something like that who used to fly it alot.
The plane is a difficult ride to use in a knife fight tho where I tend to end up alo of the times.
With my new knowledge I might do better with her.
Wish she had a stringer engine, and combat flaps like me jug :banana:
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P-40C is an ez mode crutch ride. There, I said it. :neener:
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/AH2%20screenshots/p40-4.png~original) (http://s343.photobucket.com/user/caldera_08/media/AH2%20screenshots/p40-4.png.html)
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Does anyone know what those guy wires from the rudder to the wing tips are? Support , antennas?
Thanks,
~S~ Buck
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They are antennae (or for all I know an antenna -- i.e., not sure if it is two wires or one length of wire).
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They are antennae (or for all I know an antenna -- i.e., not sure if it is two wires or one length of wire).
what freq. range were the radios typically used at? We can probably figure it out from that :x
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I'm guessing low frequency if they needed to be that long.
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Interesting little bit of trivia about the P-40, the IJAAF actually flew the P-40 in combat in Burma for the aerial defense of Rangoon.
"During the Spring 1943 Air Offensive in Burma, on March 21, 1943, a mission was flown against Feni Airfield by 21 heavy bombers (Sally II) and 15 fighters (Oscar II), the planes returning at night. The heavy bomber formation which headed toward Rangoon were fired upon by friendly anti-aircraft batteries around Rangoon, since the ground air defenses had not been properly alerted to the approach of the returning bombers which had changed the air base to which they were going to land.
'Not only that, but from Mingaladon Airfield, a unit of our forces equipped with captured P-40s took off to intercept. In the darkened sky, a tragic exchange of friendly fire took place. By the time they realized what had happened, some of the heavy bombers had force-landed after being hit by the friendly fire.'"
Source: "A-AH, HAYABUSA SENTOTAI" (A-ah, Hayabusa Fighter Unit) by Yasuhiko KUROE (Posthumously), Kojinsha Tokyo:1969, pp 246-248
Another account of the action.
"12 aircraft of 12th Sentai and 9 of 98th Sentai, under escort from 15 fighters of 64th Sentai led by Capt. KUROE attacked Feni No.1 Airfield. Upon return, 98th Sentai and the 1st and 2nd Chutai of the 64th Sentai landed at Magwe. 12th Sentai and 3rd Chutai, 64th Sentai (directly led by KUROE) headed for Toungoo. But Toungoo was under attack from enemy aircraft at the time, and the formation was diverted to Hlegu. KUROE and his Oscars did not catch that radio message. They waited until the enemy raid was over and landed at Toungoo North. When 12th Sentai neared Hlegu, they were suddenly illuminated by searchlights and were attacked by fighters. The aircraft of 3rd Chutai Leader, Capt. Shigeo IWAHASHI, with sentai-cho Col. YOSHII onboard, was hit and crash-landed at Mingaladon. It hit an earth bank, broke its fuselage and the tail flew off. Four crewmen were killed in the crash and Capt. IWAHASHI and two others injured. Col. YOSHII was unhurt. Two other aircraft of IWAHASHI's formation were also hit and force-landed at Hlegu, but there were no casualties among the crew. The rest of the aircraft landed safely at Hlegu and Mingaladon.
The fighters which attacked IWAHASHI's formation were from a unit equipped with captured P-40s formed for the aerial defense of Rangoon."
Source: Boeicho Kokan Senshi (aka "Senshi Sosho") Vol. 61 Burma, N.E.I. Area 3rd Air Army Operations, PP 284-286
There were two IJAAF units that flew the P-40 in 1943 over Rangoon, 2 Hiko Chutai and 50 Hiko Sentai (2nd Air Squadron, 50th Air Regiment).
ack-ack
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(http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab184/GBPHunt/p-40e_tachikawa.jpg) (http://s862.photobucket.com/user/GBPHunt/media/p-40e_tachikawa.jpg.html)
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(http://i862.photobucket.com/albums/ab184/GBPHunt/p-40e_tachikawa.jpg) (http://s862.photobucket.com/user/GBPHunt/media/p-40e_tachikawa.jpg.html)
Those weren't the captured P-40s that saw combat with the IJAAF, those are the captured P-40s that were being evaluated and you can also see a captured B-17 towards the end of the line. The IJAAF Burma P-40s looked like this profile.
(http://www.j-aircraft.com/captured/capturedby/p40warhawk/p-40e_50fr_art.jpg)
ack-ack
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Any idea what the results of the Japanese evaluations of the captured P-40s were? Was it difficult for them to maintain the American planes at combat ready status?
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I've heard the reports on the LaGG-3 they evaluated after it was captured thanks to a Soviet deserter leaving it in a field were less than glowing.
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P-40C is an ez mode crutch ride. There, I said it.
Oh I agree!
It can out climb, out accelerate anything in the sky. It is a monster! And those guns are like BAZOOKAs baby! I just set my convergence to 1k and everything dies automatically. GREAT viz on 6 view. Carries unlimited ords too!
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It can out climb, out accelerate anything in the sky. It is a monster! And those guns are like BAZOOKAs baby! I just set my convergence to 1k and everything dies automatically. GREAT viz on 6 view. Carries unlimited ords too!
You forgot to mention the awesome jato packs -- punch it, and even the Me 163 is left behind coughing in your smoke.
The P-40C's motto? "Can't touch this!" Or "The P-40C -- biggest pants in the hangar!"
(http://media2.giphy.com/media/kgKrO1A3JbWTK/original.gif)
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The biggest reason I don't fly the P-40 more is climb rate. It takes 50% longer to get to alt compared to a lot of other planes.
I probably will fly more of it at some point, though. It's one of the planes I've flown the least.
This, with exception to it's drawn out climbs, the plane is an excellent ride.
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Personally I think the P-40C sucks, which means those that fly it get the biggest bragging rights of all in my opinion.
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Does anyone know what those guy wires from the rudder to the wing tips are? Support , antennas?
Thanks,
~S~ Buck
Might be an NDB type antenna.
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Does anyone know what those guy wires from the rudder to the wing tips are? Support , antennas?
Thanks,
~S~ Buck
HF Radio Antenna. Removed from all USAAF fighter aircraft in the ETO and MTO. Retained in the SWPA and PTO. The antenna was removed because the HF radios not used or generally needed. Typically, the fighters in the ETO and MTO relied on the SCR-522-A VHF radio, or the AN/ARC-3 that had a range of between 150 and 200 miles depending upon altitude and conditions. Navy fighters typically were equipped with HF and VHF radios. SWPA P-38s also retained HF capability due the long distances flown over water. In the ETO, radio relay aircraft were often employed.
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Wonder why they didn't go ahead and produce the xp-40Q
420mph isn't bad at all and considerablly faster than other variants not to mention fast enough for contemporary fighters of the time
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Personally I think the P-40C sucks, which means those that fly it get the biggest bragging rights of all in my opinion.
not when they fly in a gang of green...... :aok
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Wonder why they didn't go ahead and produce the xp-40Q
420mph isn't bad at all and considerablly faster than other variants not to mention fast enough for contemporary fighters of the time
They didn't need it and it wasn't as capable as existing airframes that weren't being pushed to the end of their development capability.
not when they fly in a gang of green...... :aok
Behavior obviously modifies it, but all things being equal, the P-40C earns one the biggest bragging rights, in my opinion.
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They didn't need it and it wasn't as capable as existing airframes that weren't being pushed to the end of their development capability.
Behavior obviously modifies it, but all things being equal, the P-40C earns one the biggest bragging rights, in my opinion.
Behavior is everything in my eyes...and I have only seen a couple guys that fly those birds alone....
wish I could remember the guys name I fought in my Hurri2 days.....he was all alone and coming into a base I was rolling from...this was before the updated P40's...he flew it magnificently...I really don't even remember who won..I just remember the fight.... and That he was alone in a P40........ that guy deserves major Kudos.....
NO ONE in the MA today flies the P40s like that.
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:salute I have always like the p40. c model with the 50s in the nose. just wish I could fly better and learn how to use it. i :salute those who can. I always fly like I belong to f troop.
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Wonder why they didn't go ahead and produce the xp-40Q
420mph isn't bad at all and considerablly faster than other variants not to mention fast enough for contemporary fighters of the time
Karnak provided a good general reason for the XP-40Q not getting a contract.
There were other reasons as well.
By late 1943, the USAAF had come to the conclusion that range was now a very high priority. This was not only observed in the ETO and MTO, but it was even more important in the SWPA theater. There, when worn out P-38F and G models were retired, they were replaced by razorback versions of the P-47D. At once, the number of kills dwindled down to next to nothing. It wasn't that the Jug wasn't superior to the Japanese, it was because the P-47 lacked the range to reach many areas of Japanese air ops. The 49th FG experienced this more than any other, as some squadrons were still flying P-40s too. Before the Mustang showed up late in the war, the P-38 was THE fighter to have in the SWPA. Eventually, enough P-38s were delivered, but some were hand-me-downs.
Curtiss had been in a muddle for years, even prior to WWII. The P-40 was their last fighter accepted by the USAAF. By 1941, it was marginal. By 1943 it was clearly obsolete. Updates were pedestrian, and it was obvious that the airframe was not capable of much more speed, regardless of what engine was employed. It was very draggy, and had limited capacity for fuel. Curtiss had thrown a ton of money down the hole designated as the proposed replacements for the P-40. Early on, the XP-46 proved to be no faster than the P-40. The USAAF saw no reason to order it.
Next, Curtiss wasted more time, talent and money on the XP-53 proposal. It was designed with a long span laminar flow wing, but was to be powered by the failed Continental XIV-1430-3 engine. The USAAF didn't want to waste any time with the Continental and ordered Curtiss to re-design for the Packard built Merlin (that ended up in the P-40F). This new design was designated as the XP-60. Curtiss then went through no less than six major iterations of the XP-60. Donovan Berlin's design team could not think outside of their small box, and program management was horrendous. Finally, the XP-60E was delivered for evaluation and performed sub-standard, and still had too many unresolved problems. Moreover, now fitted with the gas guzzling P&W R-2800, its range was reduced to half that of the P-40N. The final version, the good looking YP-60E, was highly maneuverable, and had an outstanding rate of climb. It would have been a very good interceptor and air superiority fighter, but it's range was a mere 300 miles on internal fuel. Curtiss, yet again, had completely misunderstood what the AAF wanted and needed. The program was cancelled. Curtiss, it seems, was utterly incapable of adapting to the changing needs of their customers and fast evolving aviation technology.
Combine this with the failed XP-62 program, and the God-awful XF14C design for the Navy. Things were looking dismal for Curtiss Wright. Curtiss, which apparently could not design or develop a competitive fighter was offered a contract to build P-47s. Once again, management failed badly. There were continuous production issues with the P-47. Quality control was terrible and delivery was never close to being on time. Curtiss was beginning to look like Brewster, but on a grander scale. The P-47 contract was cancelled and all of the P-47Gs built were individually sorted and repaired as required. All were retained in the States and issued to training squadrons. Curtiss was pretty much done as a builder of fighters for the military.
When the XP-40Q was more or less ready for evaluation by the AAF at Eglin, Germany was just four months from surrendering. Performance was generally competitive with existing fighters already in the field. However, newer fighters being built or in testing offered a far higher benchmark. This and the fact that the XP-40Q offered no improvement in range over the P-40, the fighter was superfluous and unwanted. The USAAF also had grave doubts that Curtiss could meet any reasonable timetable for production and delivery. One AAF test pilot stated his thoughts simply... "It's a nice little fighter, but it's two years too late for our current needs".
Curtiss was a company managed by people who no longer had any strategic vision. Their inability to manage their many fighter programs compounded their inability to anticipate the future needs of the USAAF. Even though the Curtiss Helldiver did replace the SBD in Navy service, no Navy aircraft was more hated for it's poor handling. Its development was typical of Curtiss, years of teething issues and bad management. Beyond the P-40 series and the miserable SB2C, the only other truly successful military aircraft program was the excellent C-46 transport.
With the cancelling of the XF-87 contract in 1948 (Curtiss Wright's last try to be a builder of fighters), Curtiss Wright was officially out of the airplane business, managed into the ground by poor leadership and no genuine understanding of how military aviation had evolved.
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Thanks for the history, Widewing.
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That was an interesting read.
Thank you, Widewing.
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Those weren't the captured P-40s that saw combat with the IJAAF, those are the captured P-40s that were being evaluated and you can also see a captured B-17 towards the end of the line. The IJAAF Burma P-40s looked like this profile.
(http://www.j-aircraft.com/captured/capturedby/p40warhawk/p-40e_50fr_art.jpg)
ack-ack
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P40-EJapanese_zpsa39921bd.jpg)
"Unlike the allies, the Japanese put their captured allied aircraft to operational use in
combat. In 1943, the Japanese had a small operational combat unit in Burma equipped with the
P-40E's that they had captured in the Philippines and Java. After the fall of Burma, Malaya,
Netherlands East Indies (NEI), and the Philippines, all types of Allied aircraft were employed by
the Japanese in combat. In one instance they used the P-40's with Japanese markings to defend
Rangoon. However, their use resulted in confusion. They were scrambled to intercept enemy
bombers, which turned out to be Japanese bombers, and in the uncertainty one of the bombers
was shot down!"
:cheers: