Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: surfinn on August 02, 2013, 08:17:54 PM
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Nothing about this tank warrants a perk cost.
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+1 :old:
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Agreed. :aok
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+1
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-1 unless paired with unperking the T-34/85. When the M4A3(76) was freely available it killed the use of all other free tanks.
It has a decent gun with a very high rate of fire, hence the need for it to be perked lightly as a population control measure.
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+1
Bullarny about the T34. That thing is doggone near indestructible, fast, and I see it all the time. It is more popular than Tigers and other "superarmor" imo. That thing needs more perk point costs associated to it. The M4 nearly always dies with one hit, and it does not rule in the firepower department, and is slow (almost as molasses).
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-1 unless paired with unperking the T-34/85. When the M4A3(76) was freely available it killed the use of all other free tanks.
But there is an interesting twist to it.
Indeed, when unperked, the M4(76) dominated the ground war for a short time. When it was slightly perked (along with the T-34/85) the usage was cut back to a still high, but 'acceptable' level, and remained at that for a long time
However, for reasons that are not yet entirely clear to me, the M4(76) usage suddenly radically dropped not too long ago. Despite being still a very good overall medium tank and with still a very good tank combat K/D.
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neither tank should be unperkd both cost wat 1-4 perks so quit ur b1tchin bout it.
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But there is an interesting twist to it.
Indeed, when unperked, the M4(76) dominated the ground war for a short time. When it was slightly perked (along with the T-34/85) the usage was cut back to a still high, but 'acceptable' level, and remained at that for a long time
However, for reasons that are not yet entirely clear to me, the M4(76) usage suddenly radically dropped not too long ago. Despite being still a very good overall medium tank and with still a very good tank combat K/D.
The M18 killed it.... at least for me. If I can only get hit once, regardless, I am doing it at 50 mph jumping over another tank.
(https://sphotos-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/530158_10150732318912949_1567496293_n.jpg)
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But there is an interesting twist to it.
Indeed, when unperked, the M4(76) dominated the ground war for a short time. When it was slightly perked (along with the T-34/85) the usage was cut back to a still high, but 'acceptable' level, and remained at that for a long time
However, for reasons that are not yet entirely clear to me, the M4(76) usage suddenly radically dropped not too long ago. Despite being still a very good overall medium tank and with still a very good tank combat K/D.
I think if you will look at the updates you will find that it was modified and its armour cut way back, shortly after the panzer armour was updated as well. I was a big user of the M476 and still am. When it wasn't perked it was a brand new tank had decent armour and a great fire rate compared to other tanks thus the high usage. With the addition of other tanks to the arena however that is no longer the case. Quite frankly don't see why any medium tank would be perked especially one as weak as the m4/76
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The M18 killed it.... at least for me. If I can only get hit once, regardless, I am doing it at 50 mph jumping over another tank.
(https://sphotos-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/530158_10150732318912949_1567496293_n.jpg)
76 can be hit a lot more than once (not to mention near misses with HE and machine guns don't kill it). A hull down m4 76 can be a difficult to kill. The m18 is always easy to kill when it's not doing 50mph
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All true for some. My tanks generally are one hit wonders especially tigers and that new 88 jadhummerhummer. My point was if I am paying a perk and dying I am not going out without style points.
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But there is an interesting twist to it.
Indeed, when unperked, the M4(76) dominated the ground war for a short time. When it was slightly perked (along with the T-34/85) the usage was cut back to a still high, but 'acceptable' level, and remained at that for a long time
However, for reasons that are not yet entirely clear to me, the M4(76) usage suddenly radically dropped not too long ago. Despite being still a very good overall medium tank and with still a very good tank combat K/D.
Compared to when I left, I've noticed a lot more people are using the T-34/85, citing HVAP. Based on their tactics, it seems they are going for the few quick kills then die method.
The biggest reasons I oppose unperking it are; it is the toughest true medium tank, as far as actual damage it takes to kill one, this being due to the wet storage.
Second, it would require unperking the T-34/85, as you said. this would kill Panzer IV usage, warranting 30 ENY, and maybe 40 for the F2. Then you have the problem of everything else being all messed up in ENY, etc.
Just a big mess for reasons of current popular play style.
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Tank Ace
The T34/85 is in a totally differant category than the m4/76. It has way better armour. Way better hitting power with the HVAP ammo and larger gun. Its HE rounds causes more damage per shot to structures than the M4/76. The only andvantage it doesn't have is its fire rate. I can get three rounds out to his two fired. Which doesn't help the M4/76 at all if they are facing each other unless hes very close.
The M4/76 armour was taken down a few notches in a update. Prior to that a IL2 couldn't kill it at a shallow attack angle from any side. They had to attack it from a high attack angle hitting the top turret or top rear engine compartment to get a kill on it. That's not the case now, a shallow angle of attack from a IL2 in the side or rear of the vehicle is a one pass kill now and that's with 37mms. Any tank out there can one shot kill it from the same angles and most in the game now can one shot kill it with a front armour hit. Its front hull armor is lighter than the panzer h's hull armor,its rate of fire is only slightly faster than the panzer H but its gun doesn't carry as much punch as the panzer. With its current capability's in the game it should carry the same perk cost as the panzer h which is 0.
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Since in il2 can kill it, does that mean my panther can be unperked? :x
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Surfin, the M4's front armor (all models) are roughly equivalent to both models of T-34, all providing about 91mm of protection.
The M4 also has better optics, if an arguably inferior ranging system. It's gun is better with standard AP (ie better in all situations beyond 1200m). It's ROF equates to a higher damage output with all types of ammo. It has smoke. It's more stable the move, thus having a greater chance of scoring a hit while moving. It has more ammunition (and if this is only rarely an issue, you're either not taking HE, or using it exactly as I described, which is to say poorly)
It's gun is only a few mm of penetration less than the Panzer IV's, compared to the 16mm less für the Zis-53-S. It's turret armor is far superior (better when hull down, and can do this easier than the T-34).
the fact is that the T-34 only has HVAP and speed going for it. It would be quite mediocre without the former. Give the other tanks even a few rounds of HVAP, and the T-34 would be unperked first.
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The difference in optics is minimal because of the accuracy of shots in AH and because crosshairs do not obscure targets at anything like realistic distances.
The Tiger II, for example, I have used to kill at up to 8k (possibly further). I have read accounts where a target the size of a medium tank would be obscured by the crosshair, making even 4k shots difficult to impossible.
The best skill the M4 has is actually shelling, as in artillery. The 76mm gun has minimal effect at shelling, because the HE charge is smaller than even the 75mm.
Choosing between either M4 and a T34-85, I would choose the 85. I have been in a situation where it was three M4s versus a single T34 (75 in this case) and the T34 got to 400 yards before it was finally killed. . . by a T-34 85 that butted in.
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Lol, Chalenge, you really do have some serious attention issues :rofl. Not every thread about M4's or artillery requires you to come in and boast about your "skillz" (which are quite over-exaggerated, if that was you at TT, today).
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You need to read that again, kid. No boasting involved. I saw you in TT. If, my skills are not up to par, then explain how your hangars died. Your problem is you can't explain how to do it and you can't stop it from happening. In fact it's driving you nuts!
:neener: :ahand
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The difference in optics is minimal because of the accuracy of shots in AH and because crosshairs do not obscure targets at anything like realistic distances.
Chalenge I think the "realistically cloudy" optic on the T34 are a pain in the a**. I generally do not drive T34s now because of this and this alone, causes too much eye strain on me. I thought it was lame that HTC decided to "model" glass quality into tanking.
Surf, Right now my number one ride is the Hetzer because when I screw up and fire late, I always will get a shot back. Next to that is the Panzer H, followed by the M18. To me all the other tanks are options, but not ones I would pick. The only time I roll an M4 is the calliope sherman, when I am headed to kill a town. Again, my experience in the sherman, tank on tank, is one hit poof tower.
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Bangsbox, I don't know what your subscription costs, but I pay the base 15.99 and I have survived a hit but very rarely.
No, I think it needs to be unperked. It is nearly impossible to fight the T34's later variant with it. That thing was a best in the war too, but I wonder about its rear and flank armor modeling. Even my beloved M1A2 got thinner in those places. I have hit T34s in the tail multiple times and had them just keep on running.
I guess I am more a fan of not loosing perks when bombed thought honestly. I don't have nearly the perks as many folks and I never worry about upping a M18 or a M4 76. I think I have 500 some GV perks. I even try to fight the M4 75 sometimes. Its a bear because neither is as fast as the T34s a bunch of the other folks are running around in, but I fight American steel in the game. Its my choice, and sometimes I think I should go with the M18 because it is the same perk cost and has some maneuverability. it limits your exposure during rushes that the M4 could do in real life but can not in the game due to there being so few things to hide behind in game. In the real world you have many places to hide a tank. I was amazed at some of the ways we hid ours or found a nice hull down position that was naturally occurring.
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You need to read that again, kid. No boasting involved. I saw you in TT. If, my skills are not up to par, then explain how your hangars died. Your problem is you can't explain how to do it and you can't stop it from happening. In fact it's driving you nuts!
:neener: :ahand
Challenge, unless your he rounds can cause someone calling "bombs out, scatter!" to abruptly cut off, and him to disappear, you don't get the hangers.
And besides that, you bring it up at every possible opportunity, even if it's only tenuously related (ie M4(76) vs T-34). You clearly are fishing for something along the lines of a midway, which will never happen; aside from the lack of worthy skills, you're too arrogant.
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Bangsbox, I don't know what your subscription costs, but I pay the base 15.99 and I have survived a hit but very rarely.
No, I think it needs to be unperked. It is nearly impossible to fight the T34's later variant with it. That thing was a best in the war too, but I wonder about its rear and flank armor modeling. Even my beloved M1A2 got thinner in those places. I have hit T34s in the tail multiple times and had them just keep on running.
You're having rubber shell issues. I routinely one - shot T-34's from the sides and rear at ranges approaching 1000m. If you can't do that even closer, you're either wasting a shot on the tracks, or are having some rubber bullet issues.
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Tank ace
again its my experience that the t3485 is a lot more durable than the m4/76
It does not follow automatically that you have to unperk it for the m4/76 to be unperked.
Just out of curiosty tank ace what is your ride of choice in tanks? Oh and dead rear shots to a t34/85 with me 90 % of the time will kill the engine and the second shot will kill the tank if I get a second shot.
Oh and according to the in game armour chart the front armour of the m4/76 is 63.5mm of front hull and turret armour not 91mm rounded armour
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My ride of choice is the Hetzer. It really just fits my play style, although the gun maxing at 3200m calibration is a bit annoying. Quite limiting in some situations, but that's neither here nor there.
If not the Hetzer, I'm in a Panzer IV F, or occasionally an H.
I rarely use the M4, just as I rarely fly non-german aircraft. It is emphatically not due to the quality of the vehicle in any way. The same is not true of the T-34.
also, factor in slope. The T-34 has only 45mm if you ignore that crucial element. Without it, a Panther would be no harder to kill than a Panzer IV H.
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Challenge, unless your he rounds can cause someone calling "bombs out, scatter!" to abruptly cut off, and him to disappear, you don't get the hangers.
And besides that, you bring it up at every possible opportunity, even if it's only tenuously related (ie M4(76) vs T-34). You clearly are fishing for something along the lines of a midway, which will never happen; aside from the lack of worthy skills, you're too arrogant.
Obviously, you were not paying attention, kid. Your hangars died. I did not miss the gun you said I did. But worse, you were not even close enough to see what I was shooting. Yes, you could see my shells inbound, but then you tried to misdirect me with a pm. There's your arrogance, in other words, pure pretentiousness on your part.
My opinion, as it relates to the M4/76 is very much closer to the reality of AH, versus yours which relates more to WoTs. I believe you are lost. I can do what I say. What you claim has yet to be proven.
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The small perk on the 76 is worth it and required. Hard hitting, fast reload, decent speed, decent armor. Overall very good tank. Keep as is. :aok
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The M4/76mm has a great main gun albeit the weakest HE round in the game (ditto for M18).
I say keep it perked.
Matter of fact, I wish HTC approached the planes in the same manner as it does gv's: apply a small perk price to everything that deserves it (P51D, Spit16, La7, George, Tiff, Spit 8, K-4, Il-2, Lanc, B24, B17, etc).
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Il-2 deserves a perk price? Why? It is not good at air-to-air and it is far overshadowed by the A-20G in air-to-GV.
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t34/85 2 perks not 3
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disagree with you waystin and smoking the main gun is not hard hitting at all. Its lighter than a panzer h's gun according to the stats. Its armour is very weak etc.
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Its lighter than a panzer h's gun according to the stats. Its armour is very weak etc.
Penetration
Panzer IVH 136/115/98mm
M4(76) 134/115/97mm
That's practically no difference
In terms of frontal armor, the M4(76) is better armored than the IVH if you take the slope into account:
IVH turret front: 50mm @ 80°
IVH upper hull front 80mm @80°
M4(76) turret front 64mm @ 45-50°
M4(76) upper hull front 64mm @43°
And the M4 has the much better gunsight with twice the magnification, which is a big advantage at medium to long ranges.
In game, the M4(76) is the much better tank of them two. I also didn't find anything yet telling me the armor had been "nerfed"... :headscratch:
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When there was a steep decline in the use of the m476 it coralates with a update at the same time. Il2 fliers had been complaining about their inability to kill it from the side. So it was a patch that said updated the m4s armour but didn't get into the details. I only know that after that patch the tank became way easier to kill. All of this happened before the m18 and panther was added to the game.
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disagree with you waystin and smoking the main gun is not hard hitting at all. Its lighter than a panzer h's gun according to the stats. Its armour is very weak etc.
Um, the main gun of the M4/76mm and M18 is on par with the Panzer IV H, and only the Panther, Tiger, Firefly, and King Tiger beat it in AP ability (and now the Jagdpanzer IV L/70 and Jagdpanther). And yes, the T34/85 takes a back seat to the M4/76, M18, Panzer IV F2 and H in terms of AP. The only advantage the M4A3/76mm has over the Panzer IV H is a 5X magnification for the main gun site and "sloped" armor. Otherwise, the H and M4/76 are two peas in a pod for the most part (speed, reload rate, MG's, ammo count, etc). Also, keep in mind that the Panzer IV (F1, F2, and H) all have better HE than the M4/76mm.
FWIW, I prefer the Panzer IV H's tank sight over the M4/76. Yeah, the 5X is nice but the clarity of the German sight is nice and I learned how to dial in the distance using the mili-radian system I can get more first shot hits with the Panzer IV H (and F2).
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As I recall Pyro found a bug in the side armor that was making it too tough. Not really a nerf so much as a fix.
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When there was a steep decline in the use of the m476 it coralates with a update at the same time. Il2 fliers had been complaining about their inability to kill it from the side. So it was a patch that said updated the m4s armour but didn't get into the details. I only know that after that patch the tank became way easier to kill. All of this happened before the m18 and panther was added to the game.
Respectfully... I'll wait for HTC to verify that they tweaked the armor due to bugs, etc. Otherwise, I'll go along with the assumption that nothing has changed in terms of armor.
When in question ask for specifics in the Bugs forums.
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When there was a steep decline in the use of the m476 it coralates with a update at the same time. Il2 fliers had been complaining about their inability to kill it from the side. So it was a patch that said updated the m4s armour but didn't get into the details. I only know that after that patch the tank became way easier to kill. All of this happened before the m18 and panther was added to the game.
The side armor was fixed, which hardly did made it sub-par in terms of tank combat (only a very small minority of tanks is killed by IL-2 or similar tankbusters). All of it's original strengths (see my post above) were kept.
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So before the side armour was "fixed" I didn't mind the perk cost. I still don't mind it I just don't see how it applies today and still don't see how it can be the same perk cost as a t34/85.
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The side armor was fixed, which hardly did made it sub-par in terms of tank combat (only a very small minority of tanks is killed by IL-2 or similar tankbusters). All of it's original strengths (see my post above) were kept.
You must be referring to the frequency of mudhens over tank strafers. The IL2 is very potent against tanks when it is used properly. ANY tank can be killed with the IL2 guns.
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So before the side armour was "fixed" I didn't mind the perk cost. I still don't mind it I just don't see how it applies today and still don't see how it can be the same perk cost as a t34/85.
M4A3(76) is 1 perk point and the T-34/85 is 2 perk points. Yes, both token prices, but the T-34/85 does cost twice as much.
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Since in il2 can kill it, does that mean my panther can be unperked? :x
Zach you said this already move along and don't troll the thread please. If you have something constructive to say please do sir :salute
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You must be referring to the frequency of mudhens over tank strafers. The IL2 is very potent against tanks when it is used properly. ANY tank can be killed with the IL2 guns.
That's ENTIRELY irrelevant. "Well, it COULD be a major threat!!!"
The fact is that Il-2's are not a serious threat in virtually all sorties. Ju-87G's pose a larger threat usually, due to their firing PzGr. 40 ammunition. But the top threat from the air is ordnance, period.
So before the side armour was "fixed" I didn't mind the perk cost. I still don't mind it I just don't see how it applies today and still don't see how it can be the same perk cost as a t34/85.
Why is the word "fixed" in quotation marks? Do you question the legitimacy of the patch? HTC has absolutely zero incentive to balance out vehicles through unhistorical nerfs and tweaks. The perk system accommodates unbalancing vehicles by making them uncommon.
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That's ENTIRELY irrelevant. "Well, it COULD be a major threat!!!"
The fact is that Il-2's are not a serious threat in virtually all sorties. Ju-87G's pose a larger threat usually, due to their firing PzGr. 40 ammunition. But the top threat from the air is ordnance, period.
Why is the word "fixed" in quotation marks? Do you question the legitimacy of the patch? HTC has absolutely zero incentive to balance out vehicles through unhistorical nerfs and tweaks. The perk system accommodates unbalancing vehicles by making them uncommon.
Kid, you really don't have a clue about the game. If it can kill you, then it's a threat. I would say you, and your comments are ENTIRELY irrelevant, which is what got you squelched on my end.
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Kid, you really don't have a clue about the game. If it can kill you, then it's a threat. I would say you, and your comments are ENTIRELY irrelevant, which is what got you squelched on my end.
You replied to this..... Just saying, you clearly can't ignore me, apparently.
Also, the M4 and T-34/76, the worst two actual tanks in the game, have almost double the number of kills each. Unless both are killing as many aircraft as gv's, the Il-2 is half as threatening as the worst tank in the game. Which is to say it might as well not even bother taking off.
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Matter of fact, I wish HTC approached the planes in the same manner as it does gv's: apply a small perk price to everything that deserves it (P51D, Spit16, La7, George, Tiff, Spit 8, K-4, Il-2, Lanc, B24, B17, etc).
None of those airplanes you listed are worthy of being perked as none of them unbalance the game play in any fashion.
ack-ack
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Honestly Tank ACE
I thought you had something relevant to say at first, now however after further review of your comments I'd appreciate it if ya went some where else as this is AH and not WOT.
Not trying to get personal sir but honestly you don't have a clue as to what your talking about in reference to the M4/76. :salute
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Care to be specific? Right now, I just see a "I can't win the argument, so time for a logical fallacy" post.
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If you put the M-4/76 at zero,,, and adjust all other tanks accordingly,, you would help solve the perk point problem,, and the panzer would be used to gain even more perks than it does now
Lowering the threshold lowers the price of all tanks above it as well,,, if it was set low enough,, you would see more big tanks out fighting, and more targets for bombing
If you set it at zero for the Sherman firefly,,ect.,ect.,
I do think the t-34/85 should be perked higher than the m-4/76 tho
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I do think the t-34/85 should be perked higher than the m-4/76 tho
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It is. T-3485 is perked at 2 and M4A3(76) is perked at 1.
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strange Karnak that's not what i see when in the hanger.
TankACE I love a good debate and its not about winning or losing to me. I'm actually trying to point out a imbalance. You have some good arguments then digressed into other areas so my previous statement stands Thank YOU :salute
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It is. T-3485 is perked at 2 and M4A3(76) is perked at 1.
0 for the M-4/76 to 4 for t-34/85 would be closer, in my opinion,, 1 and 2 doesn't seem like enough to me
On another note,, how many 1 perk point and 2 perk point planes do we have?,,, even 4 perks?
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IIRC the perk display rounds things up when under 1. The M4 is probably sitting around .5 perks, and the T-34 is under the 1.5 line, resulting in it being rounded down to 1 perk.
And earlier you said "you don't have a clue as to what your talking about in reference to the M4/76." Now you're saying I have good arguments, then go off topic. Make up your mind, and keep petty insults out of this.
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0 for the M-4/76 to 4 for t-34/85 would be closer, in my opinion,, 1 and 2 doesn't seem like enough to me
On another note,, how many 1 perk point and 2 perk point planes do we have?,,, even 4 perks?
Why? HVAP is the only thing keeping the T-34 perk worthy, especially since it can take 20 of them.
Ideally, we'd give the German and US tanks some PzGr 40/APCR rounds. Maybe a few rounds of APDS for the firefly, but that could lead to some issues of perk price, since it could punch through the turret of a Tiger II at pretty good range.
Then, we'd have things being both more historical, and easier to balance the perk prices, since no one tank would have a large but severely limited advantage screwing things up.
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Nothing that I have said was a insult to you nor was it meant to be. I feel you are trying to turn this thread into that because you don't agree with my opinion. I'm not going to do that with you. I would ask you one more time to please post something relevant or shut up. You don't have to of course but I'm sure we would all appreciate it.
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See the above, 100% relevant.
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My point was what is the baseline tank,, some are better some are less,, but what is the baseline?
The spit 16 is a no perk plane,so is the fm-2, are they the same capability wise ?
In GVs ,,is the panzer a good baseline tank? I think not,, at one time it was,, it was all we had, but our line of tanks has increased on the top end a good bit while lesser cost or more capable perk point earning tanks have not come along,, rather than wait to get more low value hi payoff tanks,, just change the baseline, a lower value tank can still be added,, it will be more of a perk farmer is all,, helping to pay for those high priced T-2s,, my idea of a better baseline would be somewhere around the firefly, maybe a little below,,
More hi value tanks on the field of battle IMO won't hurt the game play, instead, it might help ! The people who want to earn perks in GV,s would get them faster driving panzers, a darn good tank for just that!
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That makes the assumption that the baseline is roughly midway between the two extremes of the spectrum. The best and worst GV's have only the most tenuous connection to if a vehicle is perked or not.
If the M4 were unperked, we would see the M4's become the most common tank in the arena. And it would be at the expense of the Panzer IV H, since those in the T-34/76, M4(75), or Panzer IV F are there expressly for perk farming, or a challenge. It would make the three previous tanks less successful overall, due to it being harder to kill than the Panzer IV H (which is currently the most common GV in the game).
Its perked not because the M4(76) is so powerful in and of itself, but because it kills the usage of other tanks.
And the Firefly would be a god-awful baseline tank, considering the M4(76) and T-34 would be roughly ENY 30 compared to it. A Panther would be maybe 5 perks. Maybe 10 for the Tiger I.... Maybe. Tiger II's would be around 50 perks. The M4(75)'s ENY would have to be off the scale. Something around 50 would suit, if the Firefly were to become the new Panzer IV. A Panzer III would need to be around ENY 60, and the M8 somewhere in the 80 range.
As it is now, the ENY and perk system combined have trouble accommodating the widely ranging capability of all our GV's. Lets not muck it up by raising the baseline.
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Why? HVAP is the only thing keeping the T-34 perk worthy, especially since it can take 20 of them.
Ideally, we'd give the German and US tanks some PzGr 40/APCR rounds. Maybe a few rounds of APDS for the firefly, but that could lead to some issues of perk price, since it could punch through the turret of a Tiger II at pretty good range.
Then, we'd have things being both more historical, and easier to balance the perk prices, since no one tank would have a large but severely limited advantage screwing things up.
might help allieviate concrete campers. +1
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That makes the assumption that the baseline is roughly midway between the two extremes of the spectrum. The best and worst GV's have only the most tenuous connection to if a vehicle is perked or not.
If the M4 were unperked, we would see the M4's become the most common tank in the arena. And it would be at the expense of the Panzer IV H, since those in the T-34/76, M4(75), or Panzer IV F are there expressly for perk farming, or a challenge. It would make the three previous tanks less successful overall, due to it being harder to kill than the Panzer IV H (which is currently the most common GV in the game).
Its perked not because the M4(76) is so powerful in and of itself, but because it kills the usage of other tanks.
And the Firefly would be a god-awful baseline tank, considering the M4(76) and T-34 would be roughly ENY 30 compared to it. A Panther would be maybe 5 perks. Maybe 10 for the Tiger I.... Maybe. Tiger II's would be around 50 perks. The M4(75)'s ENY would have to be off the scale. Something around 50 would suit, if the Firefly were to become the new Panzer IV. A Panzer III would need to be around ENY 60, and the M8 somewhere in the 80 range.
As it is now, the ENY and perk system combined have trouble accommodating the widely ranging capability of all our GV's. Lets not muck it up by raising the baseline.
It is an assumption! I've been around since 2005,, we had the tiger 1, the panzer, the T-34/76 , the ostwind and the M-8, a Tiger 1 might cost you 50 perks, but you could make a couple of hundred perks a day running supplies and such,, those kinds of perks are not available today! one way to help is to move the baseline,, another is to raise the ability to earn perks,, in another thread people were asking for the Tiger 2 to be more commonplace in the game instead of a concrete setting beast,, if it were 50 to 60 perks,, you would see more of them, at 200 they aren't going to be around all that much,,, 50 to 60 might be to low,, but I wouldn't charge more than 75 for the tiger 2 and work my way down from there, it is the top of the food chain on the ground
the order of things not including tank destroyers or anti aircraft guns.
Tiger 2
panther
tiger 1
firefly
T-34/85
M-4/76 --------------------center or zero as it stands IMHO!
panzer h
T-34/76
M-4/75
panzer f
M-8
the T2 is probably going to stay on top,, unless the super Pershing somehow finds its way into the game,, ( Oh please!!!!) but even so,, it will probably still be close to the same perk wise
I'd have to see but I doubt you can earn enough perks in one day to get a tiger 2 ,, not sure about that with the 262,I think I could,, and the B-29,, I know I can go make enough perks in one day to fly the 29!
just a theory!
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You replied to this..... Just saying, you clearly can't ignore me, apparently.
Also, the M4 and T-34/76, the worst two actual tanks in the game, have almost double the number of kills each. Unless both are killing as many aircraft as gv's, the Il-2 is half as threatening as the worst tank in the game. Which is to say it might as well not even bother taking off.
What you fail to realize, as the numbers cannot tell you, is that people don't want to fly the IL2 because it has a terrible view. When it has the F3 view it was super-uber. I have used it against every tank in the game, and it kills them all. It does not get used enough, but it is very capable. Something your comments ignore.
BTW, I have been killing rook V103 all night. Never left my base to do any of it. I also filmed an offline sortie from V89 where I sat on V89 pad #3 and killed all of the hangars of V103. If you check that out you will see that from that position you can only see the very tip of the radar, while the rest of the base is hidden by terrain. The M4A3-75 can kill five hangars with one load. The M4A3-76 takes two loads.
Try it yourself. :D
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The sensible way to apply a ENY and/or perk value to a tank is to take each of the attributes and put them on a slider. Armor, main gun (AP/HE ability and reload rate), and speed are the biggest three attributes. Then ammo load, MG's, turret twist rate, gun sight, turn radius/pivot ability, etc, can all be rated as well.
And just a reminder best to worst in AP ability in AH:
King Tiger/Jagdpanther
Firefly
Panther/Jagdpanzer IV L/70
Tiger
Panzer IV H
M4A3 (W) 76mm/M18
T34/85 (HVAP brings it up to par with M4/76 and Pzr IV H out to 1200 yards)
Panzer IV F2/Hetzer
M4A3 75mm/M3 Halftrack 75mm
T34/76 (HVAP brings it up to par with Pzr IV F2 out to 1200 yards)
M8
Panzer IV F1
The best HE platform in AH is the M4/75mm, hands down. HE damage of 178 lbs, a reload rate of 4 seconds, the ability to carry 60 rockets (Calliope), and 97 rounds of ammo allow of it to make a town white flagged all by itself. No reload needed. Oh, and no worries about losing perk points if you get caught. :D
FWIW, the King Tiger, Tiger, and T34/85 all do 234 lbs of HE damage; the M4/75mm does 178 lbs dmg; the Panther, all 3 Pzr IV's, LVT4, and T34/76 all do 156lbs of HE dmg; the Firefly does 140 lbs, the M4/76 and M18 do 103 lbs, and the M3 Greyhound does 31 lbs of HE damage. Town buildings, ord bunkers, radar towers, fuel tanks, and barracks all need 312 lbs of damage to be destroyed.
I have not confirmed the Jagdpanther, Jagdpanzer IV L/70, or the Hetzer but if they fall in line with their parent gun the values will be 234 lbs, 156 lbs, and 156 lbs, respectively.
Speeds are a entirely different category in itself. We all know the speed demons (M18, M18, M3/75mm), and we all know the knuckledraggers (Firefly, Jagdpanzer IV L/70), and most of us know to exploit certain weaknesses in certain tanks (VERY slow turret traverse rate in Tiger, no turrets in Jadgpanzers, lack of long range ability in T34's, etc), so be careful in asking for a ENY or perk cost based on 1 or even 2 features.
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I thought the Hetzer had the same gun as the Panzer IV H not the IV F like you list there, SmokinLoon.
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It is an assumption! I've been around since 2005,, we had the tiger 1, the panzer, the T-34/76 , the ostwind and the M-8, a Tiger 1 might cost you 50 perks, but you could make a couple of hundred perks a day running supplies and such,, those kinds of perks are not available today! one way to help is to move the baseline,, another is to raise the ability to earn perks,, in another thread people were asking for the Tiger 2 to be more commonplace in the game instead of a concrete setting beast,, if it were 50 to 60 perks,, you would see more of them, at 200 they aren't going to be around all that much,,, 50 to 60 might be to low,, but I wouldn't charge more than 75 for the tiger 2 and work my way down from there, it is the top of the food chain on the ground
the order of things not including tank destroyers or anti aircraft guns.
Tiger 2
panther
tiger 1
firefly
T-34/85
M-4/76 --------------------center or zero as it stands IMHO!
panzer h
T-34/76
M-4/75
panzer f
M-8
the T2 is probably going to stay on top,, unless the super Pershing somehow finds its way into the game,, ( Oh please!!!!) but even so,, it will probably still be close to the same perk wise
I'd have to see but I doubt you can earn enough perks in one day to get a tiger 2 ,, not sure about that with the 262,I think I could,, and the B-29,, I know I can go make enough perks in one day to fly the 29!
just a theory!
Just because the Tiger II is too expensive doesn't mean the rest are. Fix the problem without projecting it into the rest of the game.
The fact is that the Tiger II is powerful enough that losing one should hurt. However I also think GVs should be able to land when aircraft are within 3K, since even the fastest GV's cannot outrun even the slowest aircraft.
Also there is no reason for the list to be balanced between perked and free vehicles. And even if there were, the solution would be to ADD more free vehicles, not change the baseline für perking.
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This mainly looks like a poop throwing contest between Panzer fans who want the Panzer IV H to be the topdog free tank and Sherman fans who want the Sherman to be the topdog free tank.
Solution:
Raise the T-34/85's per price to 6.
Raise the M4A3(76)'s perk price to 3.
Perk the Panzer IV H at 2.
Perk the Panzer IV F at 1.
Top free tank is now the T-34/76, a tank produced in vast numbers and neither American nor German so both groups can go sulk.
:P
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What you fail to realize, as the numbers cannot tell you, is that people don't want to fly the IL2 because it has a terrible view. When it has the F3 view it was super-uber. I have used it against every tank in the game, and it kills them all. It does not get used enough, but it is very capable. Something your comments ignore.
Big difference between potential threat, and actual threat. It's like the difference between potential and kinetic energy. What you're doing is the equivalent of flying at 20K at 150mph and saying "oh, I could be going so much faster than those guys on the deck"
In theory, yes, the Il-2 could be a significant threat. But the reality is that in the typical MA situation, it is half as threatening as the worst tank in the game.
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This mainly looks like a poop throwing contest between Panzer fans who want the Panzer IV H to be the topdog free tank and Sherman fans who want the Sherman to be the topdog free tank.
Solution:
Raise the T-34/85's per price to 6.
Raise the M4A3(76)'s perk price to 3.
Perk the Panzer IV H at 2.
Perk the Panzer IV F at 1.
Top free tank is now the T-34/76, a tank produced in vast numbers and neither American nor German so both groups can go sulk.
:P
Well, that WOULD let my future Panzer III be competitive.....
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I thought the Hetzer had the same gun as the Panzer IV H not the IV F like you list there, SmokinLoon.
Indeed. The Hetzer and Pzr IV H both have the L/48 barrel, while the F2 has the L/43 barrel. Same ammo for all three. My bad. Thanks for the friendly "check your facts". :)
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there is no reason for the list to be balanced between perked and free vehicles. And even if there were, the solution would be to ADD more free vehicles, not change the baseline für perking.
and it's not,, in the plane set,, 80 to 90 % of the planes in the game are not perked,, (estimated) yet many are very capable planes, while others carry a higher ability for earning perks so if the zero perk price started at the Panther,, the panzer would earn a great deal more perks than it does now, ( just an example),, , why can this not be set up in ENY value instead of perk price? I don't know of any reason why a new player couldn't earn a good day or two worth of perks,, and then up a tiger 2?
It's just what I think tho,, I listed the tanks in the order Of relevance as I see them,, not by weapon alone,, but by how and who operates them,, and why,,, as well as strength of armor and survivability, I think the T-34/85 is a better tank than the M-4/76,, but not good enough to need a perk price to operate in late war.
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The issue is that you end up with a LOT of vehicles being at ENY 40, with some being ENY 35 on the current scale.
Compared to the Firefly, the Panzer IV H is ENY 35 or 40.
So what about the T-34/76, or the M8? They would be ENY 55 and 70, respectively.
Our ENY scale just doesn't go far enough to make raising the baseline practical. And beyond that, what the HELL are you drinking, to suggest unperking the Firefly?
Hands down, it has the 2nd best gun in the game.
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Yes it does,, but it is slow, and very vulnerable , it's gun is very unstable, slow rate of fire,, the sight lacks any markings for tracking moving tanks at any distance ,, I like it,, I try to use it,, and I die in it a lot more often than any other tank,, it's the P-38 of tanks! ( I like the 38 to,, doesn't make it a good plane to be low and slow in). And the firefly is always low and slow!
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You're not using the firefly right. Try staying further back and only engage the snipers(and guys not moving). Moving tanks are for guys in the front line.
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You're not using the firefly right. Try staying further back and only engage the snipers(and guys not moving). Moving tanks are for guys in the front line.
I know ,,, but it's sight package is not good for long distance shooting either,, along with its unstable gun and the fact that most tanks in game can kill it in one shot, maybe two , Its a guaranteed perk loser
so far this tour
the firefly , 1.08
M-4/76 , 1..46
M-18 , 1.44
T-34/85 , 1.45
T-1 , 2.53
T-2 , 10.62
panther , 3.29
the M-4/76 and the firefly are relatively close to each other in kill to death ratio,, the M-4/76 is slightly better in every month I looked at except one,, and it was only 1.66 to 1.75
the firefly may deserve a higher perk price because it was rare,, but not because of it;s ability to fight,, and as far as rare goes.. I'm not sure of any perk values set for that reason.