Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: earl1937 on August 12, 2013, 10:22:22 AM
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:airplane: I am sure Hi Tech has thought of this, but, looks to me like, if when someone downloaded the game on their PC, considering if he or she is not a trained pilot, how about a required 1 hour training period for them! I think it would help retain more pilots as a lot of people get discouraged and leave after their two week trail period. I wonder if there are any figures on how many players stay after two weeks and how many leave? Might be a clue there as to why we are not growing as much as I would like for us to grow.
Since this is a "game" and we want people to try it and then stay, looks to me like we should do some things to encourage people to stay!
Suggestion, during the two week trail period, everytime a mission is posted on the "pickup Missions" link in the hangar, a newbie gets a PM, stating that a mission has been posted? Most new guys love the missions and that would certainly help generate some excitement on their part to stay in the game. Don't say, well its posted and people are notified in the text buffer because that is not always the case. Most newbies don't even know how to step up their radio bar for use! I know that there are links in the training section for things like this, but for what ever reason, I had to help I don't know how many guys set up their radio bar to where it is useful to them. Most people who down load the game just want to "kick the tires, light the fires and leap off into the blue and start shooting down bad guys". With a little knowledge, they would enjoy the game more, and probably stay!!
Sorry guys, didn't mean to ramble, but we have all got to do what we can to encourage new members to stay in the game, or it will go away!
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I like it it :aok
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I am with you. I have been playing for about 4 years now and when I first logged on I had no clue what was going on. The trainer I contacted was a total dick. All he would tell me is read more about it. If dumb luck did not rear it head. When I met a couple of guy's that knew what was going on and they helped me with the REAL basics of the game, I would have given up in a week. :aok
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I am with you. I have been playing for about 4 years now and when I first logged on I had no clue what was going on. The trainer I contacted was a total dick. All he would tell me is read more about it. If dumb luck did not rear it head. When I met a couple of guy's that knew what was going on and they helped me with the REAL basics of the game, I would have given up in a week. :aok
I'd bet my next paycheck that they weren't a real trainer! I admit that reading up on things will give you greater insight on certain things, but all you need to know can be explained and (almost) every question can be answered by the real trainers!
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EskimoJoe raises a valid point.
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+1 Put tosh in charge.
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Trainers are typically volunteers and to coordinate a time can be difficult even in a 2 week trial.
However, I can see that to improve retention of new players, perhaps a message pop-up for a 2 week trial can say something like "Weekly New Player training to take place Friday, 10pm eastern in the TA or Training Arena at Field A3."
Turn off the mics except for the trainer and go over the basics of the game in 1 hour. :aok
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I like it except for the "required" part. An interactive tutorial they could run offline on the basics would be a big help.
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I like it except for the "required" part. An interactive tutorial they could run offline on the basics would be a big help.
:airplane: The tutorial idea is a great idea! I know they have links for all these things we have talked about, but nothing beats a voice re-enforcing things that you read!
A good instructor is one who can verbally say something which will allow the student to make a picture of what the instructor is talking about in his or her mind!
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I'd bet my next paycheck that they weren't a real trainer! I admit that reading up on things will give you greater insight on certain things, but all you need to know can be explained and (almost) every question can be answered by the real trainers!
I ll take that bed. Have you met badboy or his 'son'? Pm me for directions on where to send your paycheck. Thank you!
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I am with you. I have been playing for about 4 years now and when I first logged on I had no clue what was going on. The trainer I contacted was a total dick. All he would tell me is read more about it. If dumb luck did not rear it head. When I met a couple of guy's that knew what was going on and they helped me with the REAL basics of the game, I would have given up in a week. :aok
and just look at what a train wreck we made outa ya. :lol
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As an ex-Trainer, official at that, many of the new players do not want to put in any time and minimal effort to get good results in Aces High. It doesn't work that way. They ask about shortcuts and cheats, note- not as in actual cheating but more unlocking powers or abilities that you need to learn for Aces High opposed to 'ALt-F4' for more 'skill'.
And you may not like it but dogfighting is a thing that you will get more out of it if you read some stuff and build a little foundation of your own to build further on, just for terminology and communications sake. You may not understand alot of it, if you have no flight sim experience, but as you learn and train, with an official trainer, the stuff you didn't understand will come into focus and you progress. We all started off at the bottom rung of the ladder, its up you the player how far up that ladder they want to climb, and chances are if you try to skip a few rungs you're going to fall off and land on your keester.
And as mentioned you don't need a official Trainer but you do need to make sure the person 'teaching' you just isn't throwing BS at you to see if it will stick.
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Suggestion, during the two week trail period, everytime a mission is posted on the "pickup Missions" link in the hangar, a newbie gets a PM, stating that a mission has been posted?
I got someone to join once. I got to fly with him once during his two week free trial. He quit because he thought people were always telling him to do things (probably in the text buffer) and didn't get that it was up to him to do what he wanted so he didn't subscribe. I'd guess your plan might backfire on someone like that.
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I got someone to join once. I got to fly with him once during his two week free trial. He quit because he thought people were always telling him to do things (probably in the text buffer) and didn't get that it was up to him to do what he wanted so he didn't subscribe. I'd guess your plan might backfire on someone like that.
Not to mention would get annoying after awhile.
Join the mission!
JOIN!
JOIN THE MISSION !&U!*(&!(*&#!
17 in need 60 more!
Seriously, gets old. While he didn't HAVE to join the mission, I understand why he would be upset over it. I know I am when it happens.
Tinkles
<<S>>
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMrdrYzbuQY&list=PL54E5CE4C59347B00&index=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMrdrYzbuQY&list=PL54E5CE4C59347B00&index=1)
tell your new guys. :rock
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I remember an early Call of Duty game that put you through a GI training program that would have you learn the weapons, how to throw a grenade, and navigate ect. I liked it and it got you up to speed quick.
Something like that could be put together perhaps in a separate arena or offline with pop up help topics. Select base, select plane in hanger, outfit your aircraft with desired weapons, check fuel load, choose desired runway, ect.
Many games have these for the uninitiated so you don't get discouraged. :aok
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What I used to do with a new squaddie that was new to the game is I took him to the DA and teach him the blue collar aspects of the game: Deacking, dive bombing, rockets on a city. Then we up bombers for calibration and release. Then I went into the basics of E and angles and very basic merge fundamentals and defense. Then they would practice it in the MA and within 2 months they were actually decent and average sticks. After 2 months it's actually pretty good progress.
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What I used to do with a new squaddie that was new to the game is I took him to the DA and teach him the blue collar aspects of the game: Deacking, dive bombing, rockets on a city. Then we up bombers for calibration and release. Then I went into the basics of E and angles and very basic merge fundamentals and defense. Then they would practice it in the MA and within 2 months they were actually decent and average sticks. After 2 months it's actually pretty good progress.
well, that explains a few things :old:
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I am sure Hi Tech has thought of this, but, looks to me like, if when someone downloaded the game on their PC, considering if he or she is not a trained pilot, how about a required 1 hour training period for them!
I like the idea, but I think making it mandatory will turn people away. Make a tutorial, make sure that every new person knows it is there. Once they get lost a few times, remind them about the tutorial, and the training sessions. Veteran players urge (but don't nag) the new players to get the training.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMrdrYzbuQY&list=PL54E5CE4C59347B00&index=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMrdrYzbuQY&list=PL54E5CE4C59347B00&index=1)
tell your new guys. :rock
Everything uour asking for.... Right there by Vudu.
Ps being his wingman will get you killed and 10 assists :rofl
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What are you saying a tutorial areana with text coming up to explain how to start engine etc?
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I gotta say, learning the hard way by research in the forums, off line flying as much as possible, real AH in air combat, watching the better players get kills then trying to fit in and get good, get some tips, join a squad, have fun and reach goals is the WTG. Having said that I guess if you were on the fence, un imaginative, lazy our just plain scared I could see why some people would need a hand hold. I like that this game is hard in every sense but not un doable. Right? There is so much to gain by figuring stuff out for yourself. But that's just me. Peace
:bolt:
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I think the idea to reapeat to new players that there is a trainers page and tutorials there for them to use is a good one.
Idk about you, but I'm one of those that delves right into something and get my beak wet. After I realize my beak is bent and I can't figure out the game, or how to put the device together I break down and look at the darn instruction manual. I'm sure that's a good percentage of us...
:salute
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I think the idea to reapeat to new players that there is a trainers page and tutorials there for them to use is a good one.
Idk about you, but I'm one of those that delves right into something and get my beak wet. After I realize my beak is bent and I can't figure out the game, or how to put the device together I break down and look at the darn instruction manual. I'm sure that's a good percentage of us...
:salute
This!
Having the info available whether it's in a web page form for reading, video for watching, or even a "training mission" to get you started isn't going to help if people don't use it, and most people DON'T use it. Suggesting that they use the info comes across as telling them "Go look it up for your self!" and just alienates people.
Maybe a new icon color for 2 weekers only their countrymen can see. See a pink icon and you know is a friendly AND a 2 weeker. This way ...one would hope.... others would help them out and maybe, just maybe go easy on them. Make the transition a bit easier on them.
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I downloaded the game and played for a year before I found out there was a forum.
semp
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I downloaded the game and played for a year before I found out there was a forum.
semp
:airplane: There, I rest my case! there are things which need to be done to help new players!
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:airplane: There, I rest my case! there are things which need to be done to help new players!
Agreed. Get rid of the forums, they're a bad influence. ;)
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:airplane: There, I rest my case! there are things which need to be done to help new players!
the forums have 1 section that is helpful to brand new guys, the 'help and training' section, other than that seeing threads from most posters would turn them away in GD, wishlist, O Club, etc. There's really no point to be made in someone not finding the forums. I didn't find the forums until about a year into my game play either, and I did just fine. I've still never once read a manual or training guide to AH, lol.
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:airplane: There, I rest my case! there are things which need to be done to help new players!
Earl, as a trainer I understand exactly what you are saying and I even agree for the most part but as others have said"you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink".
There is a ton of info out there,the trainers site,help and training forum and netaces are just a few,Vudu has done some terrific videos as have many other players. I myself spend a couple hours most weeknights in the training arena to lend a hand with any issues a player may have.
Unfortunately it's not the fun part of AH,not many are willing to spend the time to get the hours logged,you understand that Earl,they'd rather fly and shoot and be killed than learn BFM or how to takeoff and land. Eventually some get to the point where they want to improve and seek out a trainer for some 1 on 1 time.
I would like to see a video tutorial on the different aspects of AH but I don't have the abilities required to do it.
:salute
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I downloaded the game and played for a year before I found out there was a forum.
semp
:airplane: There, I rest my case! there are things which need to be done to help new players!
That also proves my point. All of the information was available, on HTC web site, the WIKI, the Trainers site and the forums. How much did he use? The forums alone can be a great help asking questions, posting films and getting info on them, viewing other peoples films and reading the info on those. By not knowing, or looking for the forum (nice handy link on the HTC home page) he missed out on all that help that was available.
On top of that, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. SHOWING these people all these spots to get info and training doesn't help if they don't want to help them selves.
EDIT: Sorry Morph didn't read your post until after I went off! <S>
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:rofl :rofl :rofl
No probs Fuji........ But I was what....... he had to have read it to say anything about leading a horse..... :rofl :rofl
I would say great minds and all that but these days mine isn't so great!
:salute
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I wish I could gain some time to play the game to witness these shenanigans.
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What are you saying a tutorial areana with text coming up to explain how to start engine etc?
That is how STOL (Star Trek online) does it for noobs. When you learn enough you can turn the help off or back on if you wish. It really helped getting up to speed without having to search forums or websites for info. Remember the youth of today want instant gratification.
:rolleyes:
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:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: Zachs pie taste funny? :O :O :huh :huh :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Earl, as a trainer I understand exactly what you are saying and I even agree for the most part but as others have said"you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink".
There is a ton of info out there,the trainers site,help and training forum and netaces are just a few,Vudu has done some terrific videos as have many other players. I myself spend a couple hours most weeknights in the training arena to lend a hand with any issues a player may have.
Unfortunately it's not the fun part of AH,not many are willing to spend the time to get the hours logged,you understand that Earl,they'd rather fly and shoot and be killed than learn BFM or how to takeoff and land. Eventually some get to the point where they want to improve and seek out a trainer for some 1 on 1 time.
I would like to see a video tutorial on the different aspects of AH but I don't have the abilities required to do it.
:salute
:airplane: Good point! I guess I feel like a man standing on a small iceberg, wishing he had a heater to keep warm and all the time, getting closer to going under! Just trying to figure out some way to keep more players who try the 2 week thing!
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Nothing wrong with that Earl,I think we'd all like to keep a higher percentage of 2 weekers. The learning curve is steep and with todays gotta have it rightnow generation I don't think forcing a player to do trainer will work.
Earl,you need to drop by the TA some week night and look me up,I'd like to make your acquaintance!
:salute
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Nothing wrong with that Earl,I think we'd all like to keep a higher percentage of 2 weekers. The learning curve is steep and with todays gotta have it rightnow generation I don't think forcing a player to do trainer will work.
Earl,you need to drop by the TA some week night and look me up,I'd like to make your acquaintance!
:salute
Drop in on the Rooks and fly on one of his missions. Great fun for the new and the experienced. He takes a group that may not have worked together ever and makes it work. That's not easy. :salute
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Drop in on the Rooks and fly on one of his missions. Great fun for the new and the experienced. He takes a group that may not have worked together ever and makes it work. That's not easy. :salute
That would require me to fly in the LWA,it's too scary for me,besides I've been a knit since day 1!
:salute
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If resources in deploying weren't an issue, here's what I'd do to enhance the odds of keeping a new player.
[edited out one part]
Have a set of offline missions: intercept and shoot down incoming enemy fighters, intercept and shoot down incoming enemy bombers, capture an undefended base, shut down an airfield's ord, shut down an airfield's vh and fighter hangars.
Have a beginner's arena, with planes having ammo only as long as the player's number of kills is below some threshold.
Have default settings be with stall limiter enabled (although this might be the default already).
The edited out part is below, which I wouldn't do until well after doing the above (to see if it is even useful to do it -- it very likely could be a lot of work for absolutely no benefit, with the beginner's arena being much more important):
Have an offline training system available. It would be a series of courses, each one fairly brief, that a player could go through and then get a pass or fail on it (like in the game mentioned by Slate in his post) with the software keeping track of whether or not the player passed or failed (so that he can work on it over time). It would cover topics from basic to more advanced, such as, for fighters: take off and takeoff in loaded fighter/bomber, landing, CV takeoff and landing and CV takeoff in loaded fighter/bomber, navigating to an area where a fight is going on (i.e., practice with sector counters, radar, flashing bases, and sector numbering), entering and recovering from stalls, entering and recovering from spins, basic maneuvers (roll, loop, immelman, split s, high yo yo, low yo yo, turns maintaining edge of stall, turns maintaining near blackout), shooting several unmaneuvering AI target planes, shooting AI planes with very poor combat skill, shooting AI planes with mediocre combat skill, shooting down some AI bombers with no escort and with mediocre gunnery skill, divebombing some targets and strafing some ack, and so on. Similar course for bombers and for GV's.
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Edited above post.
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I just had an idea.
How about when you're in the hanger there's a pre-flight checklist option. When you select it it brings up the basics; i.e. start engine, stop engine, raise rpm, lower rpm, raise boost, lower boost, gear up, gear down, flaps up, flaps down, auto pilot on/off, etc. and you do most of it while sitting in the plane in the hanger.
This way at least the basics are more a part of the game than something forced on someone and if you already know all of it you don't have to select it. I'm betting most noobs would.
Likewise there could be a briefing selection in the tower covering stick set-up, key mapping, etc.
If it's all part of the game I think it would get used a lot more than people having to search it out. There could also be an advanced selection once you're in that would send you to the trainer's site. At that point who wouldn't want to know the advanced stuff?
I'm thinking if done well you not only can lead the horse to water but make him drink as well.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMrdrYzbuQY&list=PL54E5CE4C59347B00&index=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMrdrYzbuQY&list=PL54E5CE4C59347B00&index=1)
tell your new guys. :rock
A few nights ago some new guy was asking questions on country about how to do this and that. I asked if he knew of Vudu's Tutorial's. He didn't so I pointed him towards them. He sounded excited to hear there was tutorial videos and I think it helped him. We really need a link to these training videos placed on the clipboard or something. Maybe right below the trainer website page or maybe right above the online arena option.
Training Videos
Online Arenas
Offline Arena
...
...
^^^^^
Something like that?
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I just had an idea.
How about when you're in the hanger there's a pre-flight checklist option. When you select it it brings up the basics; i.e. start engine, stop engine, raise rpm, lower rpm, raise boost, lower boost, gear up, gear down, flaps up, flaps down, auto pilot on/off, etc. and you do most of it while sitting in the plane in the hanger.
first you would have to explain what some of those things do. then you will have to explain the difference between rpm and throttle. I have been playing for years and still have to remember what the heck my squadies mean when they say lower manifold.
semp
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That is how STOL (Star Trek online) does it for noobs. When you learn enough you can turn the help off or back on if you wish. It really helped getting up to speed without having to search forums or websites for info. Remember the youth of today want instant gratification.
:rolleyes:
I _wanted_ instant gratification too when I was young but trying to figure out how C64 games worked with no manual and the foreign language skill of a 12 year old taught some patience and troubleshooting skills...
Incredible how difficult everything was before internet. You had to buy expensive books to figure out simple things (not available to me as a kid) and even then most of the books were outdated and/or plain faulty. Who remembers typing sample codes from game magazines around late 80's? And the code had typing errors? ROFL! Talk about frustrating.
But yeah, 'tutorial mode' is definately a good idea for first time logins.
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If you just look at the badly outdated .command page you can see why the younger generation finds the learning curve steep. Not to mention the .command interface itself should have been done away with a long time ago.
At least HTC have a page with the complete list of dot commands.
Add to that the confusion over having a "Help" page and a "Training" page that seem to overlap.
Add to that outdated plane information.
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If you just look at the badly outdated .command page you can see why the younger generation finds the learning curve steep. Not to mention the .command interface itself should have been done away with a long time ago.
At least HTC have a page with the complete list of dot commands.
All dot commands available to you are up to date simply by typing .help
But what . commands do you feel you must use? Almost all of them have a GUI to go along with them.
HiTech
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But what . commands do you feel you must use? Almost all of them have a GUI to go along with them.
The ones most used by me which don't have a GUI
.dt (this is the most difficult and confusing for new players by the way, especially when trying to get strat downtimes, as the country numbers are not consistent)
.salvo
.delay
.target
the first three are being used very frequently.
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All dot commands available to you are up to date simply by typing .help
But what . commands do you feel you must use? Almost all of them have a GUI to go along with them.
HiTech
HiTech thanks for asking the question.
Lusche has a good reply so I will just add to his reply.
dt command is one of the more complicated ones with its odd format that is not overly user friendly. The web page should have a smartly laid out page that can be printed for reference while playing online. You might consider deleting the .commands that have GUIs to make it less complicated.
This reminds me of the map clipboard page. A new person has to dig to find the good color, numbered maps. They should be standard. And the map should be a page on the clipboard for reference, not a attached tab. Old timers might remember which is fighter hanger 2 but a new person needs to have a good, useable, quick-look reference.
I started in December. It took me quite some time to find good information. Without the forum, I would have never found out all that I needed to know.
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I only just started playing AH this summer. I've found it to be a source of stress relief, and at times a source of palm sweat and abusive language. :bhead :joystick:
I've learned the game through various sources, mostly online videos and trial and error in-game. I've been informed multiple times (upon asking like a noob) that there are trainers available in the TA but they are volunteers and not always available when I'm ready to jump online. For me the LWMA WAS my training arena; it just so happened that training used live rounds :(
Apart from the basics of flight which is THE most important aspect of this simulation because the physics in this WWII combat sim are unlike any I've played before (IN A GOOD WAY). I found it very helpful to fly offline without the threat of being shot down. It allowed me to practice AND shoot down some aircraft, so I'd bounce back and forth until I had a good feel for a one or two aircraft.
I fly Knights in the Late War Main Arena (LWMA), and over time if you are a new player, and ask politely on range usually another pilot will help you out. The best training I've had thus far in game has been by joining larger missions and emulating the other players. Don't underestimate the practice that comes from attempting to fly in formation (even with the .wingman auto-pilot command at times). The :aok BEST :aok way to help a new player and retain them as a subscriber is to make their experience enjoyable. Take 20 minutes to speak with a new player AND fly with them. If a player is sticking close to you, don't get upset that they are following you, use them, ask them to stay high and watch your six where it's safe but they still feel as if they are PARTICIPATING. :airplane:
As with me, it was the interaction with other real players which got me hooked. If it weren't for the "Renegades" squad and all the help TripleS, Dragger, 999000 provided me, I doubt I would have renewed my subscription. :bolt: Having the guys which I felt were "good players" tell me good job, or thanks for getting that guy off me made me tell my friends outside of the game how much fun the game was.
As for the OP, The forum is always a good place to find information, IF you can find it among the irrelevant postings... For me it was watching videos online, mostly VuduVince's, and then back to the forum/website for more complicated information such as .dot commands, or building hardness (how many bombs to destroy), etc.
1. Identify new players
2. make an attempt to engage them positively,
3. Provide impromptu training in form of Q & A
4. Mold them into Aces!
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Good advice, DubiousKB.
Now, if only we can put pressure on the abusive jerks in the game to be more polite to other players, we would have a better chance of them not running off new players.
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Great post dubious! It great hearing from a newbies perspective. My dad is giving the game a go. His biggest frustration is not having the basic info readily available. Grantedhe is in his middle 70's but I had him down to play on my second computer so we could both fly and chat without using the radio and annoying the heck out of others on the channel.
Turns out he was missing a bunch of little tricks I use when bombing. He asked where i found this info, and I had to admit that I had to hunt foremost of it. Knowing where to look for the info makes it easy for me, but for a new guy there are to many sites and the information is all over the place even when its on the same site.
Helping players would certainly help as well as getting the A holes to shut up and leave them alone until they can handle it.
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If you just look at the badly outdated .command page you can see why the younger generation finds the learning curve steep. Not to mention the .command interface itself should have been done away with a long time ago.
At least HTC have a page with the complete list of dot commands.
Add to that the confusion over having a "Help" page and a "Training" page that seem to overlap.
Add to that outdated plane information.
:airplane: Randy, go to AH home Page, click on training help, then scroll down to downloads, there is a one page quick reference, which I use myself and find it quite helpful at times.
Click on "One Page Quick Reference" and print the page on your printer for reference!
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Been playing at least a decade, LOVE the game and the ONLY command I have ever used is the .salvo.....lol
I really am a number dweeb! <S> Remember the guy who won was the one who had fun.
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Been playing at least a decade, LOVE the game and the ONLY command I have ever used is the .salvo.....lol
I really am a number dweeb! <S> Remember the guy who won was the one who had fun.
don't forget .lazer50cals ;)
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don't forget .lazer50cals ;)
:rofl
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HTC staff might be to close to the problem. To them it is obvious and straight forward I am sure.
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Nah.......just jump into a plane or gv.........shoot good guys 1st, find out that's wrong,,,,,,up again...die....up again ........die.....they will get better over time.......put their big boy/girl panties on let them learn on their own. Problem now days everyone wants everything on a silver platter. If they really like the game (which 50% won't, cuz it's not easy like XBOX) they will stay, if they don't like it the door is wide open :bolt:
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Nah.......just jump into a plane or gv.........shoot good guys 1st, find out that's wrong,,,,,,up again...die....up again ........die.....they will get better over time.......put their big boy/girl panties on let them learn on their own. Problem now days everyone wants everything on a silver platter. If they really like the game (which 50% won't, cuz it's not easy like XBOX) they will stay, if they don't like it the door is wide open :bolt:
It doesn't hurt to help them out. Just because you didn't give help or have some emotional issues doesn't mean that others don't deserve the help. Personally, I wouldn't mind Aces High getting some more players.
Tinkles
<<S>>
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Nah.......just jump into a plane or gv.........shoot good guys 1st, find out that's wrong,,,,,,up again...die....up again ........die.....they will get better over time.......put their big boy/girl panties on let them learn on their own. Problem now days everyone wants everything on a silver platter. If they really like the game (which 50% won't, cuz it's not easy like XBOX) they will stay, if they don't like it the door is wide open :bolt:
Wow. I guess going to school or having a trainer is considered having things served on a silver platter now? Lol
hey, get your own gold medal. You dont need a trainer lol