Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: bustr on August 13, 2013, 06:07:21 PM
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We spend more time demonizing capturing bases in this forum than congratulating it's success, or discussing it's anatomy towards creating success.
1. - What is a base capture in Aces High?
2. - How has base capturing changed over time as a response to changes in the game by Hitech?
3. - What game mechanisms are primarily leveraged to accomplish base captures? Pros and Cons directly relevant to success?
4. - How do you view base capturing as a game activity from a cost benefit return related to this game's future?
5. - Do your views on base capture reflect only your feelings, or an understanding of the broader $14.95 paying community?
6. - If you dislike base captures, what is the correct way to perform base captures as a game activity that you can tolerate, and is it really anything players who like to capture bases would be happy with?
7. - What are different ways to take bases you have taken part in that were successful?
8. - What is the best way to take a base that can be repeated with a high rate of success?
9. - Are there any rules imposed by Hitech Creations to how game processes are utilized to capture bases aside from hacking the program?
10. - Can base capturing be eliminated from the Aces High model and keep the game alive? Explain in real world detail so the HTC accountant will be convinced.
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My answers:
1. A method developed by HTC to gather large numbers of potential targets at a single location so I can kill them.
2. Changes to the methods are irrelevant. See answer #1
3. Irrelevant. Again, see answer #1.
4. Please be quiet....I am busy killing things and your question is distracting.
5. Don't care. See answer #1 for further details.
6. Dislike? Why would I dislike them? I get to kill stuff and shoot people down! See answer #1 for further edification.
7. I can't recall as I was either A. too busy killing the base takers, or B. the defenders during take off. Answer #1 is illuminating.
8. See answer #7 and, by extension, the aforementioned answer #1.
9. Wha? Sorry....too busy killing stuff to think about this deep and much too complicated question.
10. Eliminated? Why the he-double hockey sticks would you do that? How else are we to gather large...oh heck....JUST REFER TO ANSWER #1!!!!
:D :bolt:
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Disclaimer: my prior post is meant as parody. It does not actually reflect my views. Well...mostly. ;)
That being said....I would estimate the post does reflect the answers and attitudes of a sizable percentage of the current AH player community.
So in a roundabout way I suppose I did answer question #5. :aok :D
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A thread just got locked because of the same issue being brought up (albeit in a more formal manner), this one is going to end well.
You can't fix stupid so why bother?
The same people will continue to fly the same way.
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Base capture is part of the game just like furballing or spawn camping.
I have lead many many missions to capture many many bases. And YES oldman the mafia forced an arena reset a number of time by running the map on a Saturday night in the old Air Warrior game!
The only issue I <---- notice this is "me", I'm not talking for everyone, the only issue I see is most of the base captures happen one of two ways.
1, a large number of players run NOE across the water to pop up and completely wipe out a base and then capture it.
2, the large number of players climb to 10k and completely wipe out a base and then capture it.
It is always the same, and more often than not it is always the same plane types as well. Boredom leads to canceled subscriptions.
I'd like to see people put in some effort into the missions. Co-ordinate between a number of wings hitting a number of bases at the same time. Put as much thought into providing a fun atmosphere not only for those who join the mission, but for those who try to oppose it.
There is nothing wrong with missions and base captures, lets just try something other than the standard two.
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I'd like to see people put in some effort into the missions. Co-ordinate between a number of wings hitting a number of bases at the same time. Put as much thought into providing a fun atmosphere not only for those who join the mission, but for those who try to oppose it.
There is nothing wrong with missions and base captures, lets just try something other than the standard two.
:aok All kidding aside, this is pretty much my take on this subject.
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2. over the years the game was made more miserable and less fun for tactic /strategic style of players; bases more and more difficult to capture, large Vbases, huge towns, m3s resuping and this futuristic AWACS radar in a ww2 game, no reward for win base /map, and same stalled maps for weeks..
10.eliminating base capture eliminates last strategy left in game and the players still associated with this style of gaming; what would promote fights? what for to play, score?! This wants to be a MMO game but still has a first-person shooter kind of rewarding, look on front page; and all this nonsense personal stats, ranks, rewads players for personal timid glory not the teams, encouraging timid shellfish gaming. Did WW2 pilots pick their fights to become aces, or executed orders?
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Hi Bustr,
This would be my answer to Number 8:
When I flew with Devil Dogs on the Rooks one of their base capture methods was to use B-17's escorted by heavy fighters. The mission would up 3 or 4 sectors from the target base and fly at altitudes of 15 to 20k. This would throw a large dar-bar and give the enemy plenty of time to up and intercept us for a grand fight! Troops would sometimes come in by C-47 but just as often Earl would have coordinated with GV'ers to bring in troops and tanks to help. I think Earl said these missions were successful about 2/3 of the time.
Because these missions take some time to develop and complete they don't turn into the smash and grab base rolling that is disliked by some players and they often involve all three groups: the bomber guys, the fighter guys, and the tank guys. I have flown in these missions and against them and have always had a great time win or lose :aok
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10.eliminating base capture eliminates last strategy left in game and the players still associated with this style of gaming; what would promote fights? what for to play, score?! This wants to be a MMO game but still has a first-person shooter kind of rewarding, look on front page; and all this nonsense personal stats, ranks, rewads players for personal timid glory not the teams, encouraging timid shellfish gaming. Did WW2 pilots pick their fights to become aces, or executed orders?
I agree with ghi on this. If you take away base captures and the objective of winning the war through teamwork, you have nothing left but an arcade game. I like to level bomb, not to rack up bombing points but rather to bring the strat city or town down to help with base captures. I like to fly fighters to stop bombers from reaching their targets and to engage their escorts trying to stop me. I like for there to be a purpose in what I do beyond just checking my score. Without the war we would just have another DA in the MA. Why can't we have both?
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See rule #4
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Deleted for quote of a #4
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Deleted for quote of a #4 viloation
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See rule #4
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(http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv359/cmdr_magic/Posters/Courage.jpg)
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See rule #4
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Deleted for quote of #4
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See rule #4
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Deleted for quote of a #4 vilolation
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There is base capture and then there is 'base capture'. Back when I was flying with the USMC/Grims rippers we would fly base capture missions. It would be maybe 10 of us with bufs and fighters cap. We would try to stay alive during the attempt. It was not easy but it was fun because we had to actually try.
'Base capture' consisting of sending 10 guys to auger killing dar first, followed by a 50 plane unorganized horde that can figure out if they are there to vulch or run is not fun and not interested at all.
So, it is not really the game but it is the people. The funnies thing on vox is the generals asking if anyone has a goon. Never mind that they are not in one. They blame every one else for not being in one lol
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The problem I see is, base capture is by its very definition boring. You have the same targets at the base, the same tactics always work best, so why do anything else? Same thing every time.
At least running defense, I never know what I'm going to get, except that there's going to be a lot of it.
The funniest thing on vox is the generals asking if anyone has a goon. Never mind that they are not in one. They blame every one else for not being in one lol
I've noticed that a LOT on the knights side. Smash a base, country channel, "Are there troops inbound to field x?" One night I saw it happen 4 times in a row at 4 different bases. Had me chuckling pretty hard.
Wiley.
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If your intent is to capture a base, the minimum requirement for the base take must be met.
Minimum requirement is.....
1. white flagged town in the case of airfields
2. all auto ack down at towns or vehicle fields and ports.
3. troops to run into the map room
It doesn't matter how many hangars you blow up or enemy GVs you bomb down that are headed to town if the three criteria above are not met.
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lol Hitech. I give it up :bhead
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Ok, ok .... ok ....... o ... k. :D :cheers:
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I'd like to see a system in place for winning the maps dependent on destroying the enemy's factories/industry as well as capturing bases. Scatter and hide factories..... in the side of mountains maybe. This would necessitate the importance to destroy railways and train yards. When bases are taken, some factories are moved to different locations. Just as factories are move to the rear now.
Make radar where it's less predictable and make it where some areas just don't have it. And take away those silly dar bars. Make the players depend more on country communications as to where forces are needed the most.
Ghi is right. If you take away the strategic aspects of the game we have nothing more than a oversized arcade style dueling arena. It's getting damned close to that now as it is. Smash and grab towns/bases can only keep players interested for so long. Put the strategy, thinking and planning back in the game.
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I'd like to see a system in place for winning the maps dependent on destroying the enemy's factories/industry as well as capturing bases. Scatter and hide factories..... in the side of mountains maybe. This would necessitate the importance to destroy railways and train yards. When bases are taken, some factories are moved to different locations. Just as factories are move to the rear now.
Make radar where it's less predictable and make it where some areas just don't have it. And take away those silly dar bars. Make the players depend more on country communications as to where forces are needed the most.
Ghi is right. If you take away the strategic aspects of the game we have nothing more than a oversized arcade style dueling arena. It's getting damned close to that now as it is. Smash and grab towns/bases can only keep players interested for so long. Put the strategy, thinking and planning back in the game.
+1
For AvA I have always wanted to see the ability to set different parameters and even combinations for win the war. Something like bringing strats down to a certain level along with capturing some key objectives, attrition by a certain number of kills etc.
May be impractical to do something like this and finding a one size fits all for the main arenas more difficult still.
I can see why base capture is the most practical way to go.
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:huh :huh :huh :huh No Bustr...NO ! :furious :furious :furious Bad Pig...Bad Pig....BAD PIG !!! :joystick: :joystick: :old: :old: :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
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The problem I see is, base capture is by its very definition boring. You have the same targets at the base, the same tactics always work best, so why do anything else? Same thing every time.
At least running defense, I never know what I'm going to get, except that there's going to be a lot of it.
I've noticed that a LOT on the knights side. Smash a base, country channel, "Are there troops inbound to field x?" One night I saw it happen 4 times in a row at 4 different bases. Had me chuckling pretty hard.
Wiley.
The base capture should be the "end game" of that action. The mission is the challenge you work through to get there. The same as a dog fight. The kill is the end game, the maneuvering for that kill shot while avoiding the other guys kill shot is the challenge there.
What the players have done is looked for the quickest, easiest way to get the "end game". They don't bother with the journey to get there and so are not interested in the challenge.
I know what is involved in running a good mission with multiple prongs. There is the time to build and plan the mission, the time to lead the mission by assigning objectives and making sure everyone not only has a roll, but understands and can carry out that roll. If not they will need back up and this must be taken into account. Add in your "guessing" as to what kind of defense your heading into and must make changes on the fly to account for guessing wrong. Your hoping for defense as an attack with out one gets pretty boring. For our missions, more often than not I flew a buff or back up goon, and spent most of my time giving instruction as we flew. While running the missions was fun, as a fighter guy I was missing out on a lot of fighter sorties and that is ultimately why I stopped running missions.
I like to play defense too. Missions are pretty boring as everyone does the same thing all the time. It's a player issue. HTC has given us all the tools to play this game many ways. It's too bad most have settled on only just one or two of those ways to play. :(
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Since each base capture is a micro war leading up to the War Win and map change.
What would happen if Hitech offered Accomplishment Missions to reward the micro war captures?
1. - You select from an HTC provided list, a mission type with aircraft and vehicles chosen for you. You add the start and target fields. Troop delivery method along with start and target fields. You are given a troop delivery method to account for uncertainties on the map including changing the start fields if troops are down while your mission waits in the tower. Mission is officialy recorded as PlayerID's Mission.
2. - Your group achieves goals required from choosing the mission. At least one has to be included by HTC that can be accomplished by attacking the target field by one of the mission members.
3. - Accomplishment of the goals along the way rewards accomplishments for the mission membership. Capturing the field rewards mission members with perks. Zero goals achieved with a field capture equals zero capture perks. Mission failure gets highlighted in the text buffer. I can see players dedicated to forcing accomplishment missions to fail for the buffer message.
4. - Unless goals determining altitude and revealing yourself are required. Or strategies are specified. Anything goes with the required rides to get the job done.
Make a monthly contest out of these missions in some way to get names in lights on the WEB front page for the accomplishments like the overall rankings. Create a rank for mission master or something.
Another nested layer would be several missions can be combined into a common mission for the start timer. This would allow several of the accomplishment missions to be leveraged as prongs of a larger strategy. The individual accomplishment missions would be independent of each other for the achievements and perks rewarded. Ten perks per mission would be a good number. The mission owner gets his name in lights.
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A bit of a ramble. I like to participate in base captures, either organized or ones that seem to spawn from furball that formed over an enemy base. I usually like to be fighter cap n vulch but I do go heavy and bomb and strafe down targets. It would be hard to make base capture easy enough for a few players to accomplish, although some manage to take vbases with just a couple players, because during US prime time there are 300 players, but during the lull there can be a few as 100. It can be really frustrating to work a base for a long time then have the attacking force get distracted by a furball elsewhere. I also like defending against attacks, killing buffs and heavy fighters that are inbound. The p38 hordes can be a challenge though. You have to try and get a few kills while staying fast enough to get away.
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The base capture should be the "end game" of that action. The mission is the challenge you work through to get there. The same as a dog fight. The kill is the end game, the maneuvering for that kill shot while avoiding the other guys kill shot is the challenge there.
What the players have done is looked for the quickest, easiest way to get the "end game". They don't bother with the journey to get there and so are not interested in the challenge.
The problem is, everything you describe below requires effort, planning, and execution. When you've got the herd of cats who are drunk or whatever, or just plain aren't that good at the game, why would you do something like the below when you can have a far less chance of failure hording up and smashing the base?
The thing I really don't get is the amount of people who get bent out of shape if their mission runs into opposition. It's like they feel they should be able to up a mission without considering the possibility of having to defend the heavies.
I know what is involved in running a good mission with multiple prongs. There is the time to build and plan the mission, the time to lead the mission by assigning objectives and making sure everyone not only has a roll, but understands and can carry out that roll. If not they will need back up and this must be taken into account. Add in your "guessing" as to what kind of defense your heading into and must make changes on the fly to account for guessing wrong. Your hoping for defense as an attack with out one gets pretty boring. For our missions, more often than not I flew a buff or back up goon, and spent most of my time giving instruction as we flew. While running the missions was fun, as a fighter guy I was missing out on a lot of fighter sorties and that is ultimately why I stopped running missions.
I like to play defense too. Missions are pretty boring as everyone does the same thing all the time. It's a player issue. HTC has given us all the tools to play this game many ways. It's too bad most have settled on only just one or two of those ways to play. :(
Agreed.
The sad thing is, I could see Bustr's suggestion working with a simple script. Have the script choose an enemy field near the front. Put in room for 30 P51's, 30 P47's and 30 P38's, all heavy, 5 goon slots, and 10 B17 and B24 slots. Put up mission. Have it launch at a prescribed time, or if nobody goes in in time, once it's got say, 10 of each fighter and a goon.
Have the script put up multiple missions, one for each enemy base on the front. For each base take, perks for all in the mission.
I could see that working, and it depresses the living hell out of me.
Wiley.
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As a old retired Army guy, I see one BIG BUG in the Base Capture/win the Map system used right now in AH............
And that is unlimited supply of planes and tanks at each base. If I am a mission maker, and if I can get the players on my side to join, I can put up a attack with a 100 P-51's in it, from one base.
And win or fail I don't care how many planes get shot down... I can do this all day long, I always have a unlimited number of planes to use. Same thing on defense as long I can keep hangers up I have a unlimited supply of planes, how many bombs are drop on my base or that is going on it the factories, I care little about, I never run out of toys to play with.
So I'm back to mission planner... I limitless number planes, the defense has unlimited planes.... as long as the hangers are up... So why would "Win the war players" not drop the FH/VH's?
The supply system in AH isn't very good for battles or win wars. One of the other games out there on the internet is "WW2 On-line" goes about this in another way.... limited number of playing peaces (soldiers,tanks ,planes, ships)
It looks like each base has a set number of playing units, and each units down is tracked after it is killed.
From their site;
Supply
When you spawn a vehicle, a ticket is created requesting a Replacement in 4.5 hours. This ticket is deleted when your vehicle is returned home or Manually Supplied/Oversupplied
Replacement time is lengthened if your factories sustain damage
Replacement tickets will never oversupply a vehicle
I don't think AH needs to go that far. But maybe a system that each base, by size has XXX number supply points, each tank/plane/"things" on the base has a resupply cost. So I take off and die.... points go away. I land, points goes back to resupply points pool for the base. I bomb the base it uses resupply point to fix it, I bomb factories, less points goes to each field, Take out trucks and trains bases don't get supplies.
So now I am the mission planner....
I hit factories...
I cut the base off from resupply, ... (kill trucks)
I bomb the base.... use up resupply points
Now maybe to take the base........ I just need to furball it to death. :O
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HTC has given us all the tools to play this game many ways. It's too bad most have settled on only just one or two of those ways to play.
I'm all for anything that encourages but doesn't force diversity of play.
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2. - How has base capturing changed over time as a response to changes in the game by Hitech?
In 2002 when I began, it was common for Tiffies to bomb and strafe the town, bomb the vh, and Tiffies with rockets to deack the field. Sometimes, 110's were the preferred town killers. La7's escorted goons.
Slam banging hangars reflexively was not the rule of the day.
Today, I don't see why the same method would not work, be if buffs, 110's, or Tiffies or other canon and ord rides on the town.
My guess is the new crop of Generals, on the Bish side since that's the experience I have, bust hangars because they can and/or think doing so helps the capture.
It sure doesn't help the "fun" quotient.
Well, that's about all I can recollect of the days of Fairz and Rockstar3.
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Since you cannot force anyone in this game to do anything. Everything has to be simple, except for the agreements between individuals and groups. But, you can only lead them with a promise of a carrot, rather than aim them visa a threat from the stick. Try using the stick and your mission becomes only you or you become a squad of one.
So for the rules based guys who like sticks and carrots you are SOL with this game outside of the SEA. Greed is not always the best motivator. It promotes the worst behaviors in the morally undisciplined especially on the Internet.
So what are you left with in this game?
1. - Furball
2. - Base Capture
3. - Tank Spawn Camping.
4. - Bombing or defending the strats.
5. - Fighting and sinking CV groups.
All of these activities can be made objectives in Accomplishment Missions resulting in silly names in lights, stars next to names and perks(bribes).
If it were possible an adjunct to the process would be the polar opposing accomplishment process to get the same rewards for organizing and smashing accomplishment missions. Hitech would be the spy programmer in chief. And the polar opposing accomplishment missions would respond proportionally to registered accomplishment missions. You would never know where the enemy accomplishment mission was launching from or attacking. Just that your party would accept the fighters or GV assigned, and you would be auto launched within striking distance of the accomplishment mission's objective. In the case of GV's, Vehical Hanger availability dependent.
Bottom line, everyone knows a cadre of players would wait for the darbar to develop, and bring late war uber rides and perk planes to crap on these missions. Doesn't mean the Mission Master can't recruit his own cadre of perk pilots to cover his arse if it came to that. As stated earlier. Greed is a powerful motivator without mechanisms to limit it. Welcome to Aces High.
PS, I would expect the accomplishment mission menu to be stocked with missions using late war rides so players wouldn't be pushed to far out of their comfort zone. After all, how many times do you want to up in He111 supported by 109E and Stuka just to have a muppet land all 20 of you with his 262. Then again this kind of gets at the heart of game play in the LWMA. Fear of a hopeless defeat from swinging sticks that will never have a carrot. And why hoards of sticks exist to counter that fear.
The unintended consequence of self fulfilling prophecy:
"Why else do weaker players exist but to entertain my whims?"
"I'm never gonna be as good as him, so 30 of us is just about right to send his uber kester to the tower if he gets in our way."
Two different sticks, same carrot in the end. 30 happy players or one happy player. It's all about the illusion of the stick you are offering to the players to swing that feeds their greed. The carrot is always the same.
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1. - What is a base capture in Aces High?
one way to create combat
2. - How has base capturing changed over time as a response to changes in the game by Hitech?
When I first started in 2006, towns were smaller and as being dropped on the Bish when I started and it was all about captures from i saw. Also no white flag and 100% town down to capture. I don't see near as many NOE 110 raids anymore.
4. - How do you view base capturing as a game activity from a cost benefit return related to this game's future?
Necessary, most younger/newer players need a sense of achievement other than dog fighting all day. Captures are small victories that lead to winning the war which is the ultimate goal of most these players.
5. - Do your views on base capture reflect only your feelings, or an understanding of the broader $14.95 paying community?
community
7. - What are different ways to take bases you have taken part in that were successful?
noe 110's to wipe out town and with a few fighters to get any uppers and a few goons. Mass noe lancs to drop town in one pass and a butt load of goons, can't kill all the troops. Occasionally there would be buff missions at 15k that would take down hangers and town and with fighters following heavy to clean up and goons. Last way was mass osti raid on town a few tanks and m3s, LTAR special.
8. - What is the best way to take a base that can be repeated with a high rate of success?
see 7. jabo's and buffs coming in at altitude is the way I'd go.
10. - Can base capturing be eliminated from the Aces High model and keep the game alive? Explain in real world detail so the HTC accountant will be convinced.
Nope, at that point take out ord, buffs, gv's and strictly make it a dog fighting game. you have no need for strats, cv's and all you need is three bases and a kill counter to win the match.
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Our game is very rinse and repeat if you have played long enough. That creates a double edged sword of comfortable expectations and bored familiarity. Unpredictability is then the only wild card depending solely on the player base and their imaginations.
The unpredictability in a micro sense is not knowing exactly who is piloting what you are trying to shoot at or what they want to accomplish. In a macro sense the map tells the story of general intentions once you learn to read it over time from experiencing the results of responding to it as a newbie player. There are a limited number of objects to destroy or objectives to achieve which limits the reasons for dar or base flashing anywhere. This simplicity of repetition makes it reasonable to choose your response by learned experience and not be defeated by frustration directly due to poor choice.
Ok so that gets this simple game out of the way. But, what does a mission have to do with this? Unpredictability for the opening of the mission presenting it's intentions and the expectations from both sides engaged in the conflict. The mission in spirit is supposed to combine all of the individual limited facets of the game into one entity creating a large pool of unpredictability. Greed and self interest then powers the outcome because we are goal driven by nature. Missions in spirit are to feed a spectrum of need unlike simply furballing or strat bombing etc. Foremost is the human need to be part of a group accomplishing a goal.
So most players by nature are happy doing something together be it capturing or defending. This same kind of person though needs a carrot to strive for unlike those who find satisfaction in the rinse and repeat world of furballing. Furballing is the carrot and the stick and the reward by existing. Goal oriented people need more than that. They need a passion play to feel a belonging to. And a ring to reach for in a great epic adventure. Enter the mission.
So we need to discuss the anatomy of a mission because it isn't going away unless we kill this game with our own boredom. We is it, unless Hitech imposes a mission mechanism on us to blindly follow and get rewarded for tagging along. Look how the strats are sort of working out.
Everything in our lives has tipping points that suddenly cascade into rapid evolution. In the larger world we call it fashions or fads or the latest hot thing. Or in business it's the idea no one expected to suddenly turn into a phenomenon over night. In Aces High, missions have constantly evolved with the game from a fun group enterprise to something akin to worshiping the devil today. What really changed? Did our planes suddenly grow horns and evil powers? Did human beings and what motivates them suddenly change and anytime we work as groups we can only perform the basest evil towards others?
Or have we become intolerant of how other players choose to expend their energies as groups. Developed over the years we have come to look at ourselves as fixtures of this game reflected in our personal biases?
It's easy to complain that missions are x, y, and z negative things, while drawing on our vast game experiences to justify sending missions to the gallows for ruining the AH universe. But, we have nothing to offer to the goal oriented groups of paying customers as a viable alternative once we pull the lever and swing Ol Mission to it's reward. Or yes we do but, that's simply our never ending efforts to convince them of how evil missions are. While we share with each other how great they once were in the now past glory days of our game.
Mission = Group of players agreeing to accomplish a goal to make themselves happy.
Todays Mission = Group of old players convincing everyone to abandon missions because somehow they are evil.
Net Result = Boring game even for the old players who now constantly grouse about how boring this game has become.
I hope Hitech doesn't decide this is where he has to impose something on us. Usually it's something we didn't ask for or think we need.
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Simple fix: (maybe not so simple to code)
The attackers (base takers)
1 - 10 troops in immediately makes the base inert, (unusable to anyone) AA down and radar stays down. A timer is started at 30 minutes. If nothing else happens from this point the base will change over to the new owners at the end of the 30 minutes.
2 - Every 1 troop inserted henceforth reduces the timer by 1 minute.
3 - Entire country is rewarded with perks for a successful capture.
4 - Original mission participants will be rewarded double the perks for a successful base capture.
The defenders (original owners)
1 - Every 1 troop inserted will increase timer by 1 minute, not to exceed 30 minutes.
2 - Getting enough troops in to cancel out the original 10 will automatically switch the timer to the defenders and the base after 30 minutes will revert to their control.
3 - Upon a successful defense and retention of the base, the entire country will earn some modest perks.
I think this idea "although not perfect" would create some intense slugfests. Also as a byproduct I think some squads would begin to specialize in different areas of capture and "counter capture" Some might get good at interdiction/interception, some would specialize in the initial assault and others, the area defense for the 30 minutes, still others would be efficient at troop insertion to speed up the capture.
As for the defenders, they would have some time to organize "defensive missions" with the same type of specialists.
With this idea base captures would require much more planning. The planners will need to take in to account and plan for many more circumstances that "could happen"
With any luck, a fight might just break out!! :devil
JUGgler
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I think some of you guys have really good ideas to make this game a little better. Some ideas would need some modification in coding so couldn't be tested before but for you guys who only have a few mods inside the parameters of the game, why don't you try a special arena..(have no clue what can and cannot be done) and test some of your ideas. If it's posted in the general forum that such night there will be a special type of arena and you explain what has to be done to play it your way. Be it to capture or save or what ever you modify. This way, we could know if certain aspects or ideas have some value and some others don't or are not viable. If 100 guys would try it out and give feedback, I think even Hitech could see how it could help out. Just my .02 cents
Black70
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Jug,
Please O pleas O then teach me how to herd my 5 cats............
Complexity in this game breaks down under the demands of attention spans and a short effort for gratification curve.
The MA is designed around doing now whatever you want to. Within reason NOW is the controlling factor and has always been. Who pays to sit around waiting or being bored listening to someone tell them in gory detail how they will approach a problem. After 2 weeks everyone feels they are qualified to spawn and go blow something up without needing to be told how. Doing it in the company of others increases the fun for many. How each member of that group chooses to accomplish the mission to blow things up goal is on each member. No rules, no nannies just go for it with mainly no recriminations. We keep wanting to turn MA group activities into regimented FSO like activities. That is not the attraction to this unlimited environment.
Missions in this unlimited no rules environment, reached the current point due to the go and do NOW what you please factor. In an unrestricted environment, a group multiplier force factor will have more impact than an individual sans a nuclear force multiplier perk mod. So the only community solution has been peer social stigmatization of missions and stagnate game play. Once you change habits in a group body about it's identity. It takes just as much energy to change them back. Today, Missions = Bad Game Citizens. Why, over kill of the message visa targeting a poster child squad of perceived abuse of a no rules system. And unintended consequences from the outcome. All the while groups still avoid each other looking for the easy path to victory but, now stagnated and boring.
We need to visit the anatomy of what a mission is and elevate it back to an acceptable community activity. Even with missions demonized. Everywhere else in the game we continue to act out our bad conduct as we always have because there are no rules. This then makes bad conduct an "oxymoron". Missions simply condense the obvious into a group enjoying themselves together in a no rules environment. We do as we please when we please because that's what we pay for.
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Bustr!
I have absolutely no issue with how captures are performed, in fact I believe more freedom is better! freedom to try captures with minimal assistance, freedom to join massed hordes, freedom to exclude ones self from any aspect of the game wished and freedom to include oneself in any aspect of the game one desires!
My idea is not to control anyone or limit freedoms in the game! As I see it the current capture mechanics limit the freedom of defenders to get involved with defending against captures in a reasonably effective way. These mechanics also limit the freedom of attackers, forcing them to gather together in mass to accomplish it.
As far as mission planners giving direction, well they do that now. "hey bombers take out the hangars and town (leave the BH up for vulching", "heavy fighters take down the guns and finish off the town if needed" light fighters cap the base!! etc etc. You see there is plenty of directions given on any mission, even in "squad only missions" So a few more things to take in to account for mission planners is no big deal.
As I see it there really is only one problem with the current capture mechanics and that is, most often it is over to quick and the defenders have little opportunity to put up some form of fight. Like the tornado, it blows in fast and furious only to blow out or pass by in a minute or 2 then all is quiet. Those who try and arrive from a nearby base find nothing and are often too late having waisted their time on the journey many times over.
My idea is only to encourage the attackers to stick around and fight for what they desire and in turn earn themselves some sweet perky pie!
When I was playing, asside from me and a couple other nutjobs who would launch in the face of the vulch and horde to try and defend the base, there was little time or incentive to defend for most folks. I see no problem with folks defending their keep and/or potential keep :aok
BTW, it is not herding cats, it is thru effort and incentive that folks start to alter their behavior, altering the negative stigmatization of "base attackers" in the process!! :aok
JUGgler
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JUGgler
:noid
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:noid
I PWN JOO!
:aok
JUGgler
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Bustr!
I have absolutely no issue with how captures are performed, in fact I believe more freedom is better! freedom to try captures with minimal assistance, freedom to join massed hordes, freedom to exclude ones self from any aspect of the game wished and freedom to include oneself in any aspect of the game one desires!
My idea is not to control anyone or limit freedoms in the game! As I see it the current capture mechanics limit the freedom of defenders to get involved with defending against captures in a reasonably effective way. These mechanics also limit the freedom of attackers, forcing them to gather together in mass to accomplish it.
As far as mission planners giving direction, well they do that now. "hey bombers take out the hangars and town (leave the BH up for vulching", "heavy fighters take down the guns and finish off the town if needed" light fighters cap the base!! etc etc. You see there is plenty of directions given on any mission, even in "squad only missions" So a few more things to take in to account for mission planners is no big deal.
As I see it there really is only one problem with the current capture mechanics and that is, most often it is over to quick and the defenders have little opportunity to put up some form of fight. Like the tornado, it blows in fast and furious only to blow out or pass by in a minute or 2 then all is quiet. Those who try and arrive from a nearby base find nothing and are often too late having waisted their time on the journey many times over.
My idea is only to encourage the attackers to stick around and fight for what they desire and in turn earn themselves some sweet perky pie!
When I was playing, asside from me and a couple other nutjobs who would launch in the face of the vulch and horde to try and defend the base, there was little time or incentive to defend for most folks. I see no problem with folks defending their keep and/or potential keep :aok
BTW, it is not herding cats, it is thru effort and incentive that folks start to alter their behavior, altering the negative stigmatization of "base attackers" in the process!! :aok
JUGgler
:aok
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Jug,
Please O pleas O then teach me how to herd my 5 cats............
Complexity in this game breaks down under the demands of attention spans and a short effort for gratification curve.
The MA is designed around doing now whatever you want to. Within reason NOW is the controlling factor and has always been. Who pays to sit around waiting or being bored listening to someone tell them in gory detail how they will approach a problem. After 2 weeks everyone feels they are qualified to spawn and go blow something up without needing to be told how. Doing it in the company of others increases the fun for many. How each member of that group chooses to accomplish the mission to blow things up goal is on each member. No rules, no nannies just go for it with mainly no recriminations. We keep wanting to turn MA group activities into regimented FSO like activities. That is not the attraction to this unlimited environment.
Missions in this unlimited no rules environment, reached the current point due to the go and do NOW what you please factor. In an unrestricted environment, a group multiplier force factor will have more impact than an individual sans a nuclear force multiplier perk mod. So the only community solution has been peer social stigmatization of missions and stagnate game play. Once you change habits in a group body about it's identity. It takes just as much energy to change them back. Today, Missions = Bad Game Citizens. Why, over kill of the message visa targeting a poster child squad of perceived abuse of a no rules system. And unintended consequences from the outcome. All the while groups still avoid each other looking for the easy path to victory but, now stagnated and boring.
We need to visit the anatomy of what a mission is and elevate it back to an acceptable community activity. Even with missions demonized. Everywhere else in the game we continue to act out our bad conduct as we always have because there are no rules. This then makes bad conduct an "oxymoron". Missions simply condense the obvious into a group enjoying themselves together in a no rules environment. We do as we please when we please because that's what we pay for.
:rolleyes: What a "crock" of BS! People join missions to belong to a group which has a "goal" in mind and they want to contribute to the success of that "Goal, in this case, base captures!! As someone who, 95% of the time I am in the game, I am posting and running mission under the banner of the Devil Dogs squadron. People, by and large, in a game like this, enjoys being part of a "para-military" organization, a posted mission! There are some things which could be changed to make the game more enjoyable, but as is now, its the best we have to work with. Some of us guys with bas eyes, 10% in one and 90% in the other, bombers is about the only way we can enjoy the game, bombing something or someone!
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And the other problem with analyzing the anatomy of anything in this game. Personal short term game perspective and motivations running into what you don't want to hear. With an aside of already wanting to combat the current premise over anything including the following irrationality as an example.
Today is Friday.
No it's not, TO DAY is "fRIDAY"!!
Missions have been stigmatized visa community peer pressure for at least the last 6 years over Hoarding, NOE hoarding, and hoarding to avoid combat while stealing easy bases. The justification for the community Nanny effort to stigmatize missions range from a litany of supposed bad habits being fostered against good game conduct. This is by definition an OXYMORON because this game has no rules of conduct imposed on the subscribers. This is not to say missions have been eliminated or there are no mission leaders who lead their missions differently than what the Nannies have railed against and finally stigmatized after all of these years.
Missions used to be the bread and butter so to say of this game as large scale activity generators. As with all popular activities in our game, the most efficient manner to apply a mission was evolved to capture the most bases as quickly as possible. At one time it was a badge of honor to be known as a base capturing squad or successful leader of capture missions. With time, missions evolved into group institutions within the game that concentrated huge numbers of players away from each other while reducing actual combat across the arena as a consequence. Enter Hitech because it was that obvious the game was stagnating itself by combat avoidance. Too much of a good thing with very little effort is addictive to the point it takes an external abrupt force to force people to change.
Because nothing dies quickly where human habits are concerned and unintended consequences are the midwife to Murphy's Law. Missions didn't change, nor did the players love of being a member of a hoard. Almost as a quid pro quo fist raised in defiance to Hitech stepping in and interfering with their fun. The icing on this cake, enter the original "Devil's Rejects" started by Dogfite or as we have forever made them a name to cover a litany of bad conduct in the game, the "vTards".
Everything the Nannies expended the previous years of shirt rending, wearing of sack cloths and doom wailing came true in spades. Dogfite listened to them and used the road map to successful base capturing they wailed about every day to capture undefended bases with a hoard of newbies NOE. Even after he had to quit the game, they carried on because groups and NOE work. For two years it worked along with the Nannies and finally the community, who couldn't be every where at the same time to outguess the vTards. Instead, oxymoronically in a game with no rules, killed off missions other than by a very narrow set of criterion visa community stigmatization of targeted conduct in a no rules game.
The message was supposed to be NOE and Missions = Bad Game Citizen. The unintended consequence resulted in Missions = Bad Game Citizen.
So here we are. Living an oxymoron in a game with no rules because we don't want to be called bad names.
And it was helped by Hitech adjusting some of the capture objects and parameters to make base capturing just hard enough many don't feel like bothering. Unless someone has the stones to organize a hoard or an NOE with a group of friends where everyone is invited by word of mouth quietly.
It's a sad day in this game when someone emphatically says they don't want to be part of a mission because they don't want their squad accused of becoming vTards by the community. Unintended consequences will kill the greatest human endeavors while their happy masters play their harps and watch everything burn around them. At least they got what they wanted in the end.
Today is Friday.
No it's not, TO DAY is "fRIDAY"!!
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IMO, as many here state, base capture is a game play mechanism to focus combat of all types between all types. It has no secondary reward in itself other than its contribution to " land grab" which may return an eventual reward to a winning country. It does carry a win ethos for many.
It can carry a gameplay penalty, some times to the successful side. This is very often terrain design dependant. e.g. GV Spawns between two bases suit gameplay very well...... One side "wins" and captures a base to find that the spawns to the next base either do not exist or are very poor, or give an extreme air cover bias over the next base that cannot be compensated. The net result is that capture ( in this case) prejudices game play due to terrain design. Similar facets of terrain design with respect to air based combat show up on terrains where some adjacent bases are considered very good for game play and others not. The result is some players resisting capture when these better pairings are " in play".
From the above we see just how critical terrain design can be. It should work in harmony with the combat ambitions of players whilst promoting both individual and group combat objectives.
Poor terrain design can also promote horde activity. Bases that cannot be easily accessed from more than 1 adjacent base are prone to short lived low quality combat via horde aggression. They cannot be defended. In this respect the principle of triangulation should (IMO) be employed in terrain design such that any front line base should be accessible by two attacking and two defending fields at any time. The only time this should not be true is when infact a base has been by passed and is defacto behind the front line.
Infact base capture is not an AH creation it was in AW4W right from when the three Neutral bases on the lake could be captured and progressed in AW3to a total land grab model very much as we have now albeit without towns. Towns are a significant AH development. Field attrition was the only way to capture bases prior to towns. Regrettably this is still very much the case. We still talk about base capture..... When actually in my opinion we should consider the " land grab" as a series of town captures.
Game play should focus less on field porking and more on team dominance over or in towns. The near absolute necessity to deny players local access to combat over a town to achieve capture is not a game play benefit in my opinion. Particularly required when towns are so close to air bases.
GV bases still generally require to be totally porked prior to capture. Or else they are "sneaked" which is also a non combat game play activity. For me it is the GV field or Port that should be linked to towns. Airfields should be lost as they fall behind "enemy lines" ( numerous models how this may be done)
But the point is that denying the "enemy" access to local gameplay should not be the prime mechanism to succesfull capture. Because then the primary building block to achieve capture is infact working against the original objective to focus game play.
Even so capture still focuses combat. It is the extremes of quality that are under discussion.
So terrains must consider player access to combat at each point in the chain of invasion and defence.
Access to combat ( even of disproportionate numbers) over a capture objective should not be denied to players wishing to participate from either side or if denied it should be for very short periods such that the opportunity to join combat is real.
I saw my first " horde" in 1996 as a "swarm" of bz launched from a lake field. As a newb reporting it on country channel I remember most of C land gathering for the fight and relishing the opportunity of two large groups meeting in combat.
The horde in itsself is not a bad thing. It's ability to deny opposing players access to defence is. Some of us may anticipate the horde and get to combat zone above and in time to engage with some measure of equality ( alt v numbers). Some may just relish the fight from extreme disadvantage. But this is not the norm. Many players may not have anticipated the horde to fly extra time to be in place. Most players do not enjoy a combat they have little hope of achieving any ascendancy over. I see many folk trying to change that mind set...... Waste of time IMO. Ergo with a terrain that suits the horde.... The horde dominates.
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Good lord Tilt, you actually like this game. I've spent a few years scratching my head over that.
Our game is like a community that used to enjoy having block parties. Everyone rolled out a few kegs and the pints flowed along with the fun. Then someone complained. Ok, yes drinking and having fun will have consequences. But, initially no one wanted to get rid of the block party and all of it's fun. Fast forward some years and many incidents of perceived bad conduct, attempts at social intervention by fun tea totters , and the Lord Mayor himself stepping in to change the street and building layouts. The temperance fun tea totters have won. And there was never any law in place against the drinking or the bad conduct. And there still are none. And no real block parties either. But, the fun tea totters have their boring arena to which they can now loudly issue "their rules" of fair equal considerate play to us all.
No hoarding missions
No NOE missions
No HOing
No Picking
No Vulching
No flying too high
No flying too high with a group
No flying too low with a group
No running to ack
No hiding in ack
No running from a fight
No running from a fight no matter how outnumbered
No being a dumb newb on range
No being seen or herd as a newb in general because you are an irritant.
No sinking CV's
No spying
No changing countries
No using your imagination and being sneaky to achieve objectives because it will violate all of the above.
Our game has gotten boring with all of the No's that don't exist as fair use rules in our Aces High customer contract we pay $14.95 a month for. As I pointed out. It's now a very sad day in this game when a respected player says he doesn't want to take part in a mission because it will stigmatize his squad as vTards.
We have done something very wrong to ourselves when someone I respect very much feels that way about a game with no rules to how you are supposed to play it. The very heart of this game is the lack of rules and how we can use our imaginations to make the other guy whine and want revenge. Not, we all have to be fair and act nice or something really bad will happen. FUN = BAD
I wonder if some of us have gotten too old to enjoy a game with no rules? Old people impose rules on children for their own good no matter how much fun they are having. Anarchy is not natural for most adults. So they answer it with rules, even if rules are not supposed to be part of the environment regardless of the unintended consequences. No rules is the heart and soul of the MA.
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" and the animals looked from pig to man and man to pig ...... and none could tell the difference"
Mis quoted perhaps...
Bustr those are not rules they are the peer group pressures of establimentarianism.
Somewhat ironic IMO.
But to be treated with the same contempt ( or respect?) as all other social and religious constraints to freedom.
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Todays Mission = Group of old players convincing everyone to abandon missions because somehow they are evil.
I see none of this from the Bishops. I fly mostly during the morning hours Mountain Time.
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Good lord Tilt, you actually like this game. I've spent a few years scratching my head over that.
Our game is like a community that used to enjoy having block parties. Everyone rolled out a few kegs and the pints flowed along with the fun. Then someone complained. Ok, yes drinking and having fun will have consequences. But, initially no one wanted to get rid of the block party and all of it's fun. Fast forward some years and many incidents of perceived bad conduct, attempts at social intervention by fun tea totters , and the Lord Mayor himself stepping in to change the street and building layouts. The temperance fun tea totters have won. And there was never any law in place against the drinking or the bad conduct. And there still are none. And no real block parties either. But, the fun tea totters have their boring arena to which they can now loudly issue "their rules" of fair equal considerate play to us all.
No hoarding missions
No NOE missions
No HOing
No Picking
No Vulching
No flying too high
No flying too high with a group
No flying too low with a group
No running to ack
No hiding in ack
No running from a fight
No running from a fight no matter how outnumbered
No being a dumb newb on range
No being seen or herd as a newb in general because you are an irritant.
No sinking CV's
No spying
No changing countries
No using your imagination and being sneaky to achieve objectives because it will violate all of the above.
Our game has gotten boring with all of the No's that don't exist as fair use rules in our Aces High customer contract we pay $14.95 a month for. As I pointed out. It's now a very sad day in this game when a respected player says he doesn't want to take part in a mission because it will stigmatize his squad as vTards.
We have done something very wrong to ourselves when someone I respect very much feels that way about a game with no rules to how you are supposed to play it. The very heart of this game is the lack of rules and how we can use our imaginations to make the other guy whine and want revenge. Not, we all have to be fair and act nice or something really bad will happen. FUN = BAD
I wonder if some of us have gotten too old to enjoy a game with no rules? Old people impose rules on children for their own good no matter how much fun they are having. Anarchy is not natural for most adults. So they answer it with rules, even if rules are not supposed to be part of the environment regardless of the unintended consequences. No rules is the heart and soul of the MA.
If the populace could control the arenas then why do we still have all of your "no's" at play? Because it can't.
The reason the game play has changed so much is because game players have changed so much. In the old days you had more "WWII pilot want-to-be's" and like the real WWII vets that group is dieing off and being replaced by a new generation. The new player knows very little of WWII and only knows that this is a game with certain rules and they play it as such.
Many of us old times look to play the game as a dream moment, when we can slip into that persona of a daring WWII pilot on a mission against the evil enemy. The fight, the battle, the experience IS the end game for us. For the new player the game is to capture bases to accumulate enough to win the war and so collect 35 perk points in each category. How they get there is unimportant to them.
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In the old days you had more "WWII pilot want-to-be's" and like the real WWII vets that group is dieing off and being replaced by a new generation.
I think 'dieing off' is a bit drastic. However, I do think the 18 and under crowd may have less real-life responsibility and perspective. Even without the historical relevant context being well-groomed and exhibited, social skills can go far when it comes to successfully passing a torch. And yes, there are some young players that have exhibited great ability to carry on (BFOOT1 [age 19] in my RAF squad for BOB 2013 comes to mind). But if there's even a 10% to 15% erosion over time then in quick order the nature of the game can change through player attitude alone.
But .... I/we ain't dead yet. :D
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I think 'dieing off' is a bit drastic. However, I do think the 18 and under crowd may have less real-life responsibility and perspective. Even without the historical relevant context being well-groomed and exhibited, social skills can go far when it comes to successfully passing a torch. And yes, there are some young players that have exhibited great ability to carry on (BFOOT1 [age 19] in my RAF squad for BOB 2013 comes to mind). But if there's even a 10% to 15% erosion over time then in quick order the nature of the game can change through player attitude alone.
But .... I/we ain't dead yet. :D
I meant "figuratively" not "really" dieing off. Your squadmate SIK1 is a perfect example. I use to fly with him all the time and now he rarely flies in the Mains. I'm sure it has to do with the environment more than the game as he is still does FSO and Scenarios. The game is no longer played like it was in the old days.
Personally I don't think it will change back on it's own. To us it was those stories that our fathers and uncles told about "the war" that intrigued us. Todays player, IF there fathers talked to them :P they most likely talked about video games and how they finished such and such a game (win the war?). The only way to see that type of play to come back in the Mains would be if HTC added rules or incentives to guide the play in that direction. Even if players tried to turn game play that way now it would most likely fail. Too many "need" that win instead of the "challenge" of a battle.
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The experiences along the road traveled to the destination versus, "The Destination" misconception. Each person's road is completely different and can only be traveled by that person. Your personal road is absolutely meaningless to anyone else because it exists as the unique architecture of your self in your mind. The conceit of the old saying is using it to impose your perceptions of your memories upon others as the right reality for them to follow.
The agony and ecstasy of the revolution is always remembered by those who were there as the most alive they had ever been. And that somehow surviving elevates them to a position of wisdom superior to those who come after. Some how because of that experience, your agonies and ecstasies experienced are more real than that of anyone to follow.
The new player or younger generation just entering our world has no experiences of having lived through your revolution or traveling your road. For them all they have is the revolution as it appears to them from their perspective and its road to be traveled. Their current agonies and ecstasies are just as valid as yours while you are judging theirs wanting from your lofty perspectives. Now that you have survived your revolution and promoted yourselves as the patriarchs of this cartoon universe, you think they should respect and emulate you as the true and only way of playing this game. So you would fancy yourselves able to control the laws of universal nature and hold back the tides of change to satisfy your vision of reality. More simply, to make yourselves feel good at their expense in this environment. Change sucks the older you get. To hold onto what makes you happy you are stifling them unto the point of making our game boring.
No hoarding missions
No NOE missions
No HOing
No Picking
No Vulching
No flying too high
No flying too high with a group
No flying too low with a group
No running to ack
No hiding in ack
No running from a fight
No running from a fight no matter how outnumbered
No being a dumb newb on range
No being seen or herd as a newb in general because you are an irritant.
No sinking CV's
No spying
No changing countries
No using your imagination and being sneaky to achieve objectives because it will violate all of the above.
This list is a reflection of us. Hitech imposes no rules, and allows our imaginations to create our fun or chain us into a gilded jail of boredom. New and younger players seeing no rules exercise their imaginations until they discover the price for community inclusion, the list of "No's". Older players hold onto their memories at all costs including vilifying a group of young players for using their imaginations into a community swear word: vTard.
My saddest day in this game was when someone I respect refused to be in an NOE mission because he was afraid of his squad being branded vTards. What a bunch of silly old farts we have become to hold onto our memories over walking the ongoing path into the future of this game.
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The experiences along the road traveled to the destination versus, "The Destination" misconception. Each person's road is completely different and can only be traveled by that person. Your personal road is absolutely meaningless to anyone else because it exists as the unique architecture of your self in your mind. The conceit of the old saying is using it to impose your perceptions of your memories upon others as the right reality for them to follow.
The agony and ecstasy of the revolution is always remembered by those who were there as the most alive they had ever been. And that somehow surviving elevates them to a position of wisdom superior to those who come after. Some how because of that experience, your agonies and ecstasies experienced are more real than that of anyone to follow.
The new player or younger generation just entering our world has no experiences of having lived through your revolution or traveling your road. For them all they have is the revolution as it appears to them from their perspective and its road to be traveled. Their current agonies and ecstasies are just as valid as yours while you are judging theirs wanting from your lofty perspectives. Now that you have survived your revolution and promoted yourselves as the patriarchs of this cartoon universe, you think they should respect and emulate you as the true and only way of playing this game. So you would fancy yourselves able to control the laws of universal nature and hold back the tides of change to satisfy your vision of reality. More simply, to make yourselves feel good at their expense in this environment. Change sucks the older you get. To hold onto what makes you happy you are stifling them unto the point of making our game boring.
No hoarding missions
No NOE missions
No HOing
No Picking
No Vulching
No flying too high
No flying too high with a group
No flying too low with a group
No running to ack
No hiding in ack
No running from a fight
No running from a fight no matter how outnumbered
No being a dumb newb on range
No being seen or herd as a newb in general because you are an irritant.
No sinking CV's
No spying
No changing countries
No using your imagination and being sneaky to achieve objectives because it will violate all of the above.
This list is a reflection of us. Hitech imposes no rules, and allows our imaginations to create our fun or chain us into a gilded jail of boredom. New and younger players seeing no rules exercise their imaginations until they discover the price for community inclusion, the list of "No's". Older players hold onto their memories at all costs including vilifying a group of young players for using their imaginations into a community swear word: vTard.
My saddest day in this game was when someone I respect refused to be in an NOE mission because he was afraid of his squad being branded vTards. What a bunch of silly old farts we have become to hold onto our memories over walking the ongoing path into the future of this game.
Unnamed respected player - <S>
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The experiences along the road traveled to the destination versus, "The Destination" misconception. Each person's road is completely different and can only be traveled by that person. Your personal road is absolutely meaningless to anyone else because it exists as the unique architecture of your self in your mind. The conceit of the old saying is using it to impose your perceptions of your memories upon others as the right reality for them to follow.
The agony and ecstasy of the revolution is always remembered by those who were there as the most alive they had ever been. And that somehow surviving elevates them to a position of wisdom superior to those who come after. Some how because of that experience, your agonies and ecstasies experienced are more real than that of anyone to follow.
The new player or younger generation just entering our world has no experiences of having lived through your revolution or traveling your road. For them all they have is the revolution as it appears to them from their perspective and its road to be traveled. Their current agonies and ecstasies are just as valid as yours while you are judging theirs wanting from your lofty perspectives. Now that you have survived your revolution and promoted yourselves as the patriarchs of this cartoon universe, you think they should respect and emulate you as the true and only way of playing this game. So you would fancy yourselves able to control the laws of universal nature and hold back the tides of change to satisfy your vision of reality. More simply, to make yourselves feel good at their expense in this environment. Change sucks the older you get. To hold onto what makes you happy you are stifling them unto the point of making our game boring.
No hoarding missions
No NOE missions
No HOing
No Picking
No Vulching
No flying too high
No flying too high with a group
No flying too low with a group
No running to ack
No hiding in ack
No running from a fight
No running from a fight no matter how outnumbered
No being a dumb newb on range
No being seen or herd as a newb in general because you are an irritant.
No sinking CV's
No spying
No changing countries
No using your imagination and being sneaky to achieve objectives because it will violate all of the above.
This list is a reflection of us. Hitech imposes no rules, and allows our imaginations to create our fun or chain us into a gilded jail of boredom. New and younger players seeing no rules exercise their imaginations until they discover the price for community inclusion, the list of "No's". Older players hold onto their memories at all costs including vilifying a group of young players for using their imaginations into a community swear word: vTard.
My saddest day in this game was when someone I respect refused to be in an NOE mission because he was afraid of his squad being branded vTards. What a bunch of silly old farts we have become to hold onto our memories over walking the ongoing path into the future of this game.
You are my FPH.
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The experiences along the road traveled to the destination versus, "The Destination" misconception. Each person's road is completely different and can only be traveled by that person. Your personal road is absolutely meaningless to anyone else because it exists as the unique architecture of your self in your mind. The conceit of the old saying is using it to impose your perceptions of your memories upon others as the right reality for them to follow.
The agony and ecstasy of the revolution is always remembered by those who were there as the most alive they had ever been. And that somehow surviving elevates them to a position of wisdom superior to those who come after. Some how because of that experience, your agonies and ecstasies experienced are more real than that of anyone to follow.
The new player or younger generation just entering our world has no experiences of having lived through your revolution or traveling your road. For them all they have is the revolution as it appears to them from their perspective and its road to be traveled. Their current agonies and ecstasies are just as valid as yours while you are judging theirs wanting from your lofty perspectives. Now that you have survived your revolution and promoted yourselves as the patriarchs of this cartoon universe, you think they should respect and emulate you as the true and only way of playing this game. So you would fancy yourselves able to control the laws of universal nature and hold back the tides of change to satisfy your vision of reality. More simply, to make yourselves feel good at their expense in this environment. Change sucks the older you get. To hold onto what makes you happy you are stifling them unto the point of making our game boring.
No hoarding missions
No NOE missions
No HOing
No Picking
No Vulching
No flying too high
No flying too high with a group
No flying too low with a group
No running to ack
No hiding in ack
No running from a fight
No running from a fight no matter how outnumbered
No being a dumb newb on range
No being seen or herd as a newb in general because you are an irritant.
No sinking CV's
No spying
No changing countries
No using your imagination and being sneaky to achieve objectives because it will violate all of the above.
This list is a reflection of us. Hitech imposes no rules, and allows our imaginations to create our fun or chain us into a gilded jail of boredom. New and younger players seeing no rules exercise their imaginations until they discover the price for community inclusion, the list of "No's". Older players hold onto their memories at all costs including vilifying a group of young players for using their imaginations into a community swear word: vTard.
My saddest day in this game was when someone I respect refused to be in an NOE mission because he was afraid of his squad being branded vTards. What a bunch of silly old farts we have become to hold onto our memories over walking the ongoing path into the future of this game.
You seem to have a problem separating real life, and a GAME.
I know how the game was before, as I played such. I was giving you the facts as I remember them. Granted my memory is not perfect, but I like to think I have the basics down. As for the new players, all I have to do is observe the play in the arena. It is easy to see that they couldn't care less for the fight as they rarely do. They make their HO run and if they survive it the dive away until they can come back un molested. They run the same NOE mission and disappear right after the attack whether they capture the base or not. They then pop up some place else undefended.
The game has changed a lot, and as I said we the players have very little chance of forcing it to change back to a more combat orientated game. For better or worst this is the game we have to play, unless HTC decides to change things to promote more combat. It's not about "me", or any other single player. It is what it is and all the big fancy words you spew to twist what anyone else says isn't going to change it. Do I like the way the game is played now? Nope. Am I going to leave? Nope.
I flew for 8 hours today and had 3 awesome fights. SEarrow gave me a great fight and he got away with a ditch. Chorizzo in a spit vs my Hog, nail bitter to the end stall fighting from 10k. Rapier and Kurmori against me and bricker. Another heart pounder. These are the reasons I pay my $15 a month. WOuld I love to see the old style missions and more fighting for bases? Heck ya! My wife would hate it because I'd start putting in a lot more hours but until then.....if ever, I'll hunt for those few fights that make my heart pound for a bit.
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I've done this 2002 off and on. I do no hear the criticisms you mention. I fly Bishop, and mostly during the morning.
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1. Notice two countries are attacking one country in giant hordes.
2. Go kill ack at gv base.
3. Bring goon.
4. Proclaim you captured it by yourself.
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1. Notice two countries are attacking one country in giant hordes.
2. Go kill ack at gv base.
3. Bring goon.
4. Proclaim you captured it by yourself.
But thats the point, the game isn't about capturing bases. It's about the FIGHT TO capture the bases. If it wasn't why is there ack? Why are the town full of so many buildings that have to be taken down? Why can the towns be resupplied?
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How did vTard as a pejorative become fixed in the Aces High lexicon? With every new player being made to understand it's explicit meaning and things it means they are not to do in the game, if they want to be accepted as a good community citizen?
This game has no rules.
By definition we impose an oxymoron upon new players to protect our memories of how we whish the present would play out. The past is always used to justify the benefits of forcing the community to live by the narrow scope of the List of No's. Now missions cannot happen in any manner anyone wants to think up. But, only in a very narrow scope driven by a community list of No's. And everyone whines about boring game play and everyone else's lame game play. While lamenting the lost glories of the past, and handcuffing anyone attempting to follow the primary rule imposed by Hitech in this game. There are no rules.
The vTards understood this, and look at ultimately what happened as a community response. Instead of playing the game with them, we used the community against them.
And now we have a term for all of the combined game evils that we threaten our new players with and our veteran members choose not to be associated with. vTard.
And missions are not looked upon as fun generating activities as much as the constant suspicion, the mission will vTard us to steal a base while breaking all of the List of No rules.
Even WW2 evolved because that was human nature to win at all costs in real life. In Aces High we try to force the gameplay to stay in some image frozen in time that appeals to us instead of playing by it's only rule. There are no Rules.
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There is one rule, "Don't be a dick!"
HOing instead of fighting is being a dick because your avoiding a fight to joust in an all or nothing attack.
Hording is being a dick on a larger scale. While it's possible those doing the hording are having fun (which I'm sure turns to boredom eventually) it certainly isn't fun being on the receiving end all the time or chasing them around.
Running missions and capturing bases is NOT being a dick if the mission is rounded out to INCLUDE the enemy. Combat where EVERYONE has fun.
The Vtards were trashed because of they avoided a fight, any fight. The were instances where their "mission" was spotted and they augured to avoid a fight. They brought the animosity on themselves much like a certain cartoon pilot "who" recently got his name back.
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There is one rule, "Don't be a dick!"
HOing instead of fighting is being a dick because (you're) avoiding a fight to joust in an all or nothing attack.
Respectfully, I disagree. There is no 'instead.' Head-on attacks are head-on attacks, nothing more, whether it
leads to a protracted engagement, a series of disengaging then re-engaging, or nothing more than a pass. I've seen
players who've proven to have developed a degree of skill at the game use that method of attack when engaging
(and yes, that's engaging - it sure isn't avoiding). It can be avoided by the recipient without disengaging, as well.
'Being a dick' would generally entail engaging in hostile, rude and disruptive 'banter' because one didn't like how
someone else plays the game the way it was designed.
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Humm I have something to say about this. I'm just trying to clear my head enough to say it.
Bish= organized base take missions every day (granted the same lame ac over and over again)
Rook= Best fighter pilots in the game which hinders base take missions for rook side
Knight= A little bit of both but lacks a team leader.
Basically my money is on bish hell 20, 14 year olds can beat up a healthy single 25 year old. (used as a example not a cut down to the bish)
Game is as much about strategy as it is about personally glory. Personally if I was the guy leading 20 players to capture base after base I would be just as proud as I would landing 8 kills in a FM2.
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There is one rule, "Don't be a dick!"
Please show me anywhere Hitech Creations Inc. stipulates this as grounds for ejecting a paying customer from the arena? The Devils Rejects membership followed the rule stipulated for playing in the Main Arenas. Your response to them was not dictated by any rules other than what you wanted to force them to play by. There are no rules of play but, still you forced your rules of play on other players as did the community resulting in the List of No's.
The Devils Rejects membership did not hack the game but, on occasion were punished fairly as we all are for inappropriate and bad language. Everything else was fair game for them to do. They never broke the rule because there is no rule to be broken. Only your feelings, which subsequently helps stifle the imaginations of new players to make you and others happy.
@ Legal rules to your participation in the Hitech Creation Inc. game - Do not hack the game in any form. No bad or abusive language or conduct as determined by Hitech Creations Inc.
@ In game rules of play in the Main Unlimited Subscriber Arena - None.
The vTards were oxymoronically abused by the community while the unintended consequence was, mission = bad. And todays List of No's.
But, in and of itself you could point out that was a game of another venue more intoxicating than this cartoon simulation. The results were more satisfying because they were against real people with emotionally satisfying outcomes by leveraging the power of the Mob to vilify with self appointed right against other men. Lynching's feel so good to the mob while they are in progress. And thus is the greatest and saddest unintended consequence of no rules.
Without rules we will act out in our worst to fill the void even if nothing is needed to fill it.
So who was really being this?
There is one rule, "Don't be a dick!"
You hung the Devils Rejects for following the rules. And the unintended consequence was missions, because they are forever linked as the tool used to break your personal rules in an arena with no rules.
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There is no rule against the community frowning upon being a tard. :old:
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There is one rule, "Don't be a dick!"
HOing instead of fighting is being a dick because your avoiding a fight to joust in an all or nothing attack.
Hording is being a dick on a larger scale. .
You are mixing up different things. When pyro (I think it was him) said "Don't be a dick!" here on the BBS, he did not mean any of those things. All of them are perfectly legit, even if you don't like them.
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There is no rule against the community frowning upon being a tard. :old:
Community is a nice name for Mob which is another word for "Pure Democracy".
What ever the Mob votes is true, by virtue of granting themselves rights superior to the individual or smaller groups. This is the filling of the void where no fill is needed unintended consequence to the one rule of this game. Mobs by definition do not exist upon the premise all men are equal since they need the superiority of numbers to hang innocent men to satisfy their emotions. Communities rarely do either without an external force that adjudicates them equally to individuals by the same standards.
The Devils Rejects were harmed unjustly for following the only rule of the Main Arena. The unintended consequence is how we view group activities and missions with suspicion and negativity in the game now.
You hung an innocent man, and taken away a list of options for having fun visa Mob peer pressure as a result, making the game limited, boring, and fearful of scorn for it. You acted the worst of being a Mob trampling on the rights of individuals to suit your emotions
There are no rules to how you play in the Main Arenas because there is no need for them. Or Hitech would impose them.
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Please show me anywhere Hitech Creations Inc. stipulates this as grounds for ejecting a paying customer from the arena? The Devils Rejects membership followed the rule stipulated for playing in the Main Arenas. Your response to them was not dictated by any rules other than what you wanted to force them to play by. There are no rules of play but, still you forced your rules of play on other players as did the community resulting in the List of No's.
The Devils Rejects membership did not hack the game but, on occasion were punished fairly as we all are for inappropriate and bad language. Everything else was fair game for them to do. They never broke the rule because there is no rule to be broken. Only your feelings, which subsequently helps stifle the imaginations of new players to make you and others happy.
@ Legal rules to your participation in the Hitech Creation Inc. game - Do not hack the game in any form. No bad or abusive language or conduct as determined by Hitech Creations Inc.
@ In game rules of play in the Main Unlimited Subscriber Arena - None.
The vTards were oxymoronically abused by the community while the unintended consequence was, mission = bad. And todays List of No's.
But, in and of itself you could point out that was a game of another venue more intoxicating than this cartoon simulation. The results were more satisfying because they were against real people with emotionally satisfying outcomes by leveraging the power of the Mob to vilify with self appointed right against other men. Lynching's feel so good to the mob while they are in progress. And thus is the greatest and saddest unintended consequence of no rules.
Without rules we will act out in our worst to fill the void even if nothing is needed to fill it.
So who was really being this?
There is one rule, "Don't be a dick!"
You hung the Devils Rejects for following the rules. And the unintended consequence was missions, because they are forever linked as the tool used to break your personal rules in an arena with no rules.
WOW! what a funny little world you live in. So what your saying is it's my fault that the Vtards got their nick name as well as organizing the entire player base to go against them. LOL!!! Had I that power we wouldn't be having this discussion, everyone would be playing the game exactly like I want them to! LOL!!!
I have never told anyone how to play this game. I have suggested many times, different ways to play with my reasoning as to why. No the Vtards never broke a rule ...other than the one Pyro stated.... but they did circumvent the game play that was dominate at the time. The used the biggest baddest equipment available and using tactics and huge numbers avoided combat to accomplish their mission to grab as many bases as they could as fast as they could with out fighting for them. Truth be told they were very good at it.
We have to remember that this is a game and while it is opponent against opponent we are all PAYING to PLAY a GAME and have FUN! If every opponent I run into HOs I certainly am not going to be having fun and soon cancel my subscription. The same goes for the hordes. Fighting against them gets boring and frustrating after a while and could cause the same out come, as well as those IN the horde becoming bored and also looking for other more "colorful" games to play.
Could this be a reason as to why the numbers of players continue to drop? Maybe we always had these numbers of players leaving but had a steady enough influx to keep the numbers higher. The supposed "dated graphics", steep learning curve", and boring game play are chasing them away faster than they come in now. Who knows, but I see what I see. Many less players. The same old boring missions run time after time. Fight IN a horde or fight against a horde.
Many players talk about the game play, it's not just me or a few others. Many would like to see more guys stop running away and just fight it out. Even Surfinn. Saturday he spent the afternoon hiding in the Bish horde. Later in the date he was crying on the radio because he got HOed when he was looking for a fight.
As I said before, as long as I find that great fight every few hours I'll stick around paying HTC my $15 every month because that what I look for. I also know that if players don't change and use more of the options HTC has made available they will get bored and leave. I've seen it many, many times. I have known hundreds of players and very few are left. Most left because they got bored.
You seem to think there is a stigma on running missions and Surfinn even points out the Rooks are fighter jocks and so don't run missions and take bases. ET37 runs many missions and he is starting to run all kinds of missions. Granted they don't always help the "war effort" but it looks like people are having fun and that is the point right? The only stigma I can see is when hordes run the same "Grab a P38 heavy and we will flatten everything on the base" over and over again.
You are mixing up different things. When pyro (I think it was him) said "Don't be a dick!" here on the BBS, he did not mean any of those things. All of them are perfectly legit, even if you don't like them.
Correct, I may be expanding a bit but it still holds true. We are all PAYING to PLAY a GAME here. Being a dick takes the fun away from other PAYING customers just as much as say some idiot trash talking another player until he cry's or rage quits. Chasing away customers should NEVER be allowed. How many of the players that leave are being chased away? It could be as much from a loud mouth as from always getting horded, or not being able to out run 10 friends to kill that lone target.
Don't be a dick! Play nice and lets all have fun!
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There is no rule against the community frowning upon being a tard. :old:
Nor is there a rule about the frowner being a tard doing it, whether he wants the community to join him/her or not.
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Community is a nice name for Mob which is another word for "Pure Democracy".
What ever the Mob votes is true, by virtue of granting themselves rights superior to the individual or smaller groups. This is the filling of the void where no fill is needed unintended consequence to the one rule of this game. Mobs by definition do not exist upon the premise all men are equal since they need the superiority of numbers to hang innocent men to satisfy their emotions. Communities rarely do either without an external force that adjudicates them equally to individuals by the same standards.
The Devils Rejects were harmed unjustly for following the only rule of the Main Arena. The unintended consequence is how we view group activities and missions with suspicion and negativity in the game now.
You hung an innocent man, and taken away a list of options for having fun visa Mob peer pressure as a result, making the game limited, boring, and fearful of scorn for it. You acted the worst of being a Mob trampling on the rights of individuals to suit your emotions
There are no rules to how you play in the Main Arenas because there is no need for them. Or Hitech would impose them.
You discount the fact that the vTards did nothing other than continually horde things. It's not like it was a once in a while event.
You can still do as you wish in the MA. Repeatedly doing something the community considers bad form gets you nothing more than taunts on 200 and walls of text (lol) on the BBS, both of which have zero effect in the real world. If you want to exist on the fringe of popular opinion, start acting like it. Go horde bases, detune 200, and forget the link to the BBS. Presto. Mob power gone.
I'm betting that's too much to ask of you though. :angel:
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Nor is there a rule about the frowner being a tard doing it, whether he wants the community to join him/her or not.
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRcmTpNLEPU7KG2a3rD1Gbe6lSzUMrlQ2hrrioTbAnAaxnCsHv4)
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You discount the fact that the vTards did nothing other than continually horde things. It's not like it was a once in a while event.
How is he discounting such? No more different than the Claim Jumpers. Not that I'm encouraging
recycling the torches and pitchforks.
_____________________________ _______
Bottom line - much ado about nothing.
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(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRcmTpNLEPU7KG2a3rD1Gbe6lSzUMrlQ2hrrioTbAnAaxnCsHv4)
(http://thetruthfulmom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/NO.jpg)
:D
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. Mobs by definition do not exist upon the premise all men are equal since they need the superiority of numbers to hang innocent men to satisfy their emotions. Communities rarely do either without an external force that adjudicates them equally to individuals by the same standards.
I would think anyone from 1812 to 1940 would Totally disagree with this comment. I still have a a packet of skittles next to my 45. :devil
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How is he discounting such? No more different than the Claim Jumpers. Not that I'm encouraging
recycling the torches and pitchforks.
_____________________________ _______
Bottom line - much ado about nothing.
Because everyone has done something considered by someone to be bad form. The tards just set out to do it on a nightly basis. Bustr would have us believe that it's all the same. It's not.
If it's much ado about nothing, tell Bustr. :aok
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(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa433/arloguh03/leeg_ov_manlee_just_us_zpsb93fa116.jpg)
:cheers: :lol
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I would caution against the use of rose tinted glasses when fondly recounting the game play of yester years.
My observation is that
HOing
Horde'ing
Pork and auger/suicide
Hit and Run & Run & Run
Etc
Etc
Etc
Etc.
Is no greater (by any significant degree)than it has been over the years.
Indeed the NOE raids are lesser and I remember HOing even happening in AW where it was a complete waste of time.
Equally BBS lobbying via certain facets of the " community" for individuals to adopt a style of game play conducive to the lobbyists preference is equally prevalent. That this has had little or no real effect on game play ( despite Bustr's story regarding the mystery player) is evidenced by the fact that the whi.... lobbying is still to be seen here.
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Base capturing is fine. It creates an objective, and due to the competitive nature of some in the game, they feel the need to defend. that equals action, which I'm all about. :aok
When a horde gets rolling, those that care about score disappear from the defending base leave a hand full of die-hards to get creamed, as multiple bases get rolled. That's usually when the whining starts.
I think WILEY has it right, the MA is like herding cats. No one wants to be lead, but base capturing (and defending) takes a plan. But who is making one? Who is in charge? No one.
So If some squad or group or horde forms up and have ANY kind of organization, they can roll the whole map. I can't stop them by myself, so I find a away to find to targets and do my part.
Roll on. :salute
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I say go back to capture by landing :)
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I say go back to capture by landing :)
Calling some of the captures I saw landing is generous. More like shed parts till you stopped sliding. :devil
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Humm I have something to say about this. I'm just trying to clear my head enough to say it.
Bish= organized base take missions every day (granted the same lame ac over and over again)
Rook= Best fighter pilots in the game which hinders base take missions for rook side
Knight= A little bit of both but lacks a team leader.
Basically my money is on bish hell 20, 14 year olds can beat up a healthy single 25 year old. (used as a example not a cut down to the bish)
Game is as much about strategy as it is about personally glory. Personally if I was the guy leading 20 players to capture base after base I would be just as proud as I would landing 8 kills in a FM2.
:airplane: Now you know how I feel every night! I had much rather lead a group of Rooks and Devil Dogs and capture 5 to 10 bases as shoot down 5 what evers in a FM2! I get a lot of satisfaction leading a good bunch of guys on base captures and you sir, :salute , are among that group I am referring to!
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The more acrimonious the self defense, the stronger and more inflexible support of artificial rules of play in a game with no rules of play. The supporters of this will also be the vocal abusers of others in the community sowing discordant feelings rather than playing the game as created with no rules. You need rules to justify the assumed right to defend the status quo by abusing others in it's name. "Community" or the "Collective" or the "Mob" is then used as the source for the right where no rules of play are needed.
In the process a secondary game is created based upon verbal abuse as an unintended consequence. Taken advantage of for the pure enjoyment of abusing others under the guise of defending the "Community" rules of game play in a game with no rules. Enforcement with no rules to how one enforces is intoxicating. Rules for thee but not for me because I am one with the "Collective".
If you are on the side of the "Community", you get to hang innocent men for not adhering to an artificial orthodoxy in a game with no rules. The worst attributes of men become virtuous rules in the defense of "Community" when no outside force limits it.
When a new customer reads his fair use contract, there is no stipulation or warning, that upon entering the arena he will have to follow an arbitrary orthodoxy or become the target of vile verbal abuse(lynch mob) from members of a "Community" who see their $14.95 collective as superior to his $14.95 singular. In the eyes of the "Community" no single individual or lesser group is equal. This is the unintended consequence of a no rules system. Rule by Mob instead of all men are created equal under the law. Seems the real and virtual realms of human rights sever ties after the login.
Today, Missions = Bad, as a result of a poorly delivered message from the "Collective" in it's efforts to lynch the Devils Rejects for violating it's arbitrary orthodoxy. No where legally codified in the fair use contract each player accepts from Hitech Creations Inc..
The orthodoxy has become the bed rock of reality by constraining the group into a narrow focus of predictable rule actions, regardless of the unintended consequences to fun or the future in the game.
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Ok, which one of you put Bustr on repeat?
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It helps flush the self appointed defenders of the orthodoxy out of the shadows.
In the process a secondary game is created based upon verbal abuse as an unintended consequence. Taken advantage of for the pure enjoyment of abusing others under the guise of defending the "Community" rules of game play in a game with no rules. Enforcement with no rules to how one enforces is intoxicating. Rules for thee but not for me because I am one with the "Collective".
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How and why do members of the orthodoxy hide in the shadows? If they're members of the established norm, couldn't they just hang out by the pool and stuff?
The secondary game of verbal abuse would exist whether people were playing like you want them to or not. Verbal abuse to some is smack talk to others. The only reason you don't like this smack talk is it hits close to home with how you like to operate.
I've given you the pearls O' wisdom to defeat the orthodoxy. Use those pearls and HO, horde, and run your way to the happiness you once knew.
P.S. - Why are we responding directly to each other yet not quoting what we're responding to? Is this a subtle tactic to throw off your opponent? If so, it's terrible. I'm gonna have to consult the orthodoxy leaders about this.
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In the process a secondary game is created based upon verbal abuse as an unintended consequence. Taken advantage of for the pure enjoyment of abusing others under the guise of defending the "Community" rules of game play in a game with no rules. Enforcement with no rules to how one enforces is intoxicating. Rules for thee but not for me because I am one with the "Collective".
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Get a room you two. :D
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I still can't figure out where he gets this "missions=bad" thing?
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It's not taken advantage of for the pure enjoyment, though. Those of us hired to defend the orthodoxy are required to do it. I don't like making fun of you. It's my job.
At any rate, it would be fun to see you engage in verbal volleys on 200 since you ignore my pearls O' wisdom. The resistance needs a voice. All you have to do is figure out how to make your jabs fit into the text buffer.
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There has never been a need for rules in this game if every player respected that each player's choices to achieve happiness are as valid and equal as all other players. A very grand expectation by it's creator knowing human nature.
Where we decide to see a void we try to fill it with what? Most often an orthodoxy which grows of it's own accord and unintended consequences that have to be forced upon anyone unwilling to accept it. In our case community pressure and character harassment.
After 12-13 years this orthodoxy and it's unintended consequences justified it's members to violate the rights of a smaller group of players. By branding their choices to achieve happiness based on the expectations of what they were paying for as anathema ending with a virtual lynching. You failed to respect their right to play the game by it's single rule. No rules. The fountain source of all unpredictable activity in the Main Unlimited Arena. Rules force compliance, compliance forces predictability. Predictability fosters boredom or a stratified cast system that leverages it as a status quo and abuses others to maintain it. The HO makes everyone equal in that nanosecond of unpredictability. The NOE mission makes your intentions unpredictable until located or you choose to reveal yourself. Hitech fully well knows human nature and how the NOE would turn out where combat avoidance was concerned. He only tweeked the coad making the NOE harder to perform by newer players leaving the primary rule alone. No rules.
The orthodoxy cannot abide either and hung an innocent group of men for using both with abandon in it's violation of the primary rule. Wonder why Hitech once mentioned squads were not something he really liked?
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There has never been a need for rules in this game if every player respected that each player's choices to achieve happiness are as valid and equal as all other players. A very grand expectation by it's creator knowing human nature.
Where we decide to see a void we try to fill it with what? Most often an orthodoxy which grows of it's own accord and unintended consequences that have to be forced upon anyone unwilling to accept it. In our case community pressure and character harassment.
After 12-13 years this orthodoxy and it's unintended consequences justified it's members to violate the rights of a smaller group of players. By branding their choices to achieve happiness based on the expectations of what they were paying for as anathema ending with a virtual lynching. You failed to respect their right to play the game by it's single rule. No rules. The fountain source of all unpredictable activity in the Main Unlimited Arena. Rules force compliance, compliance forces predictability. Predictability fosters boredom or a stratified cast system that leverages it as a status quo and abuses others to maintain it. The HO makes everyone equal in that nanosecond of unpredictability. The NOE mission makes your intentions unpredictable until located or you choose to reveal yourself. Hitech fully well knows human nature and how the NOE would turn out where combat avoidance was concerned. He only tweeked the coad making the NOE harder to perform by newer players leaving the primary rule alone. No rules.
The orthodoxy cannot abide either and hung an innocent group of men for using both with abandon in it's violation of the primary rule. Wonder why Hitech once mentioned squads were not something he really liked?
:headscratch:
I wonder why none of bustr's post have ever been hit with a violation of rule #12?
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I will venture the original vision was a completely unstructured arena with no rules, limited only by the players imaginations and ingenuity, resulting in constant combat along with the natural seeking of unlimited revenge from the hangers. Not a semi regimented, stratified "Community", seeking to maintain a none existent status quo we have evolved into today.
We were given the DA, AvA, and SEA to satisfy that human urge to impose limits on each other visa structure.
Do we tell new players in the MA to simply go forth and have "fun" in any way they choose. Or do we read off from some portion of the List of No's to make them conform?
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I will venture the original vision was a completely unstructured arena with no rules, limited only by the players imaginations and ingenuity, resulting in constant combat along with the natural seeking of unlimited revenge from the hangers. Not a semi regimented, stratified "Community", seeking to maintain a none existent status quo we have evolved into today.
We were given the DA, AvA, and SEA to satisfy that human urge to impose limits on each other visa structure.
Do we tell new players in the MA to simply go forth and have "fun" in any way they choose. Or do we read off from some portion of the List of No's to make them conform?
We should tell new players in the MA to pay no mind to the guy imitating Patrick Henry on the BBS.
The game still has no rules. You can still horde. You just want to be able to do it without people calling you G rated mean names.
For someone who seems to enjoy having command of language, you don't seem to grasp that what others say to you has zero meaning if you don't care.
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The game still has no rules. You can still horde. You just want to be able to do it without people calling you G rated mean names.
Called names was part of the original unlimited revenge in the hangers. "people calling" had it's part originally because it promoted going to the hanger to gain unlimited revenge. Today "people" has been replaced by a structured and self promoted "Community" who takes seriously it's self appointed prerogative to pass judgment and assign names as punishment for non compliance to the List of No's. Or the pejorative "vTard" would not mean the same to everyone using it in response to perceived violations of the List of No's.
When you play in the DA, AvA or SEA you know they are rules based on purpose to one degree or another to promote a type of structured combat. It's natural for players to attempt to extend that to the MA to try and control what doesn't need controlling. Or, the pejorative "vTard" would not exist in response to the game play strategies of the original "Devils Rejects" formed by Dogfite.
Do you play in the MA with no rules, or do you limit your imagination with some variation from the List of No's? Then cast pejoratives at others you perceive to violate the list when contesting with yourself? Your defense of the List of No's would indicate something of that nature.
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZkRCaNjLc-I/UL8ujKJJBWI/AAAAAAAABJY/TU8IboRxf2I/s1600/aces_high_main.png.jpg)
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(http://www.titaniumteddybear.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/stop-liking-what-I-dont-like.jpg)
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But thats the point, the game isn't about capturing bases. It's about the FIGHT TO capture the bases. If it wasn't why is there ack? Why are the town full of so many buildings that have to be taken down? Why can the towns be resupplied?
I was mocking some of the folks who do just what I said.
I've made a living recently of guarding these obscure bases. One thing I've found is they don't want to fight. They will soon head to another base. One thing is for sure it's not the enemies job to protect your base.
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The reason the game play has changed so much is because game players have changed so much. In the old days you had more "WWII pilot want-to-be's" and like the real WWII vets that group is dieing off and being replaced by a new generation. The new player knows very little of WWII and only knows that this is a game with certain rules and they play it as such.
Many of us old times look to play the game as a dream moment, when we can slip into that persona of a daring WWII pilot on a mission against the evil enemy. The fight, the battle, the experience IS the end game for us. For the new player the game is to capture bases to accumulate enough to win the war and so collect 35 perk points in each category. How they get there is unimportant to them.
I couldn't have stated it better. You nailed it.
Me, I personally don't care too much how others enjoy the game. It's their money. However, I do get pissed off when a pilot - mostly bomber - decide to bail as I attack them or after they drop their ordinance. Fighter pilots do it too. I witnessed Iraqvet do this after he lost the advantage.
But my point is - the game is what it is. It has changed since 1999 when most players were focused on air combat
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Blah derp. Repeat.
More fussing about social mores finding their way onto the internet. You're not going to stop like minded people from banding together and projecting their ideas on others. The best you can hope for is to project your own ideas and hope more people agree. In this case, it appears your loquacious fussing is because too few people agree with you.
It just occurred to me that the notorious vDallas vox raging is at least partly to blame for their utter shaming by the community. I'm sure he used pejoratives as well. :)
Do you play in the MA with no rules, or do you limit your imagination with some variation from the List of No's? Then cast pejoratives at others you perceive to violate the list when contesting with yourself? Your defense of the List of No's would indicate something of that nature.
If I want imagination I'll go draw a picture. If I'm flying Aces High it's because I want to fight. I cast plenty of pejoratives but lucky for you, they usually don't make it on 200. It's not really my style. After your horde overwhelms me, I'd rather come back in your plane, find you, force you from the herd, and kill you in the ack you're running to than I would try to convince you you're a tard. If I'm successful and you're paying attention, I don't need to tell you you're doing something wrong.
Look at it this way. Hordes are easy to put together. Lots of times they just happen. The learning curve for actually fighting is not easy. Discouraging the horde while promoting the fight gives players the tools to exist in any way they choose. A fighter can run with the horde if we wants, but a hordeling cannot fight without friends.
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More fussing about social mores finding their way onto the internet. You're not going to stop like minded people from banding together and projecting their ideas on others. The best you can hope for is to project your own ideas and hope more people agree. In this case, it appears your loquacious fussing is because too few people agree with you.
(http://evilencyclopedia.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/demotivational__irony_by_ironhold.jpg)
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(http://evilencyclopedia.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/demotivational__irony_by_ironhold.jpg)
I was waiting for you..
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I was waiting for you..
You're a might too fixated then. :D
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You're a might too fixated then. :D
I can multitask.
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I can multitask.
And still be fixated. How interesting. :D
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And still be fixated. How interesting. :D
You're the one who quoted me. :aok
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You're the one who quoted me. :aok
Let me set you straight. Your post was ironic, what with it's take on how many
feel one way or another and how many even care (crusaders often seem to
believe they're part of the popular or cool group for some reason). It didn't matter
whether you or someone else posted it, the irony was ripe and ready for the picking.
Your response hinged on my posting a reply and possibly the manner of the reply.
You admitted you were 'waiting for me.' That's fixation. :D
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Let me set you straight. Your post was ironic, what with it's take on how many
feel one way or another and how many even care (crusaders often seem to
believe they're part of the popular or cool group for some reason). It didn't matter
whether you or someone else posted it, the irony was ripe and ready for the picking.
Your response hinged on my posting a reply and possibly the manner of the reply.
You admitted you were 'waiting for me.' That's fixation. :D
This is turning into an EHarmony commercial :O
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This is turning into an EHarmony commercial :O
Happily married, not looking for anything on the side. :D
(http://jeremyhermanns.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/eharmony-300x250.gif)
(Actually, the wife and I met on Plenty of Fish. No endless series of compatibility questions needed.)
:)
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This is turning into an EHarmony commercial :O
I have serious doubts they'd use this for advertising...
Wiley.
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I have serious doubts they'd use this for advertising...
Wiley.
I'm not supposed to reveal this, but Triton is Dr. Neil Clark Warren. ;)
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Let me set you straight. Your post was ironic, what with it's take on how many
feel one way or another and how many even care (crusaders often seem to
believe they're part of the popular or cool group for some reason). It didn't matter
whether you or someone else posted it, the irony was ripe and ready for the picking.
Your response hinged on my posting a reply and possibly the manner of the reply.
You admitted you were 'waiting for me.' That's fixation. :D
Between your pictues and emoticons, Bustr's text walls, and your combined age/wit ratio, this thread is about to bring the house down. :old:
:aok :x
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I'm not supposed to reveal this, but Triton is Dr. Neil Clark Warren. ;)
Is that why Arlo is attracted to me?!? :uhoh
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Between your pictues and emoticons, Bustr's text walls, and your combined age/wit ratio, this thread is about to bring the house down.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is that why Arlo is attracted to me?!?
You're confusion over the 'relationship' of 'I've been waiting for you' and who seems attracted to whom is rather odd.
Having said that, not respecting your elders nor your betters (in wit) doesn't shame anyone but you.
Way to go, you. :D
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You're confusion over the 'relationship' of 'I've been waiting for you' and who seems attracted to whom is rather odd.
Having said that, not respecting your elders nor your betters (in wit) doesn't shame anyone but you.
Way to go, you. :D
You want me to want you, don't you?. For the record, I was waiting on your weak picture posting, not on your homoerotic projections.
Please, let's not talk about intelligence. You sir, are a poor man's Bustr. You might both be old, but he's tons more fun and at least takes the time to copy his nonsense from a book.
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(Paraphased translation) Look at me not accomplishing a damned thing, sharing my boredom with the community.
When you exemplify a degree of intelligence or wit, on you're own part, for the rest
of the community to appreciate and admire then I'll start taking your opinion about anything
(including me) more seriously.
^Direct and plain spoken.
:D
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:cry
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DEAR GOD! MAKE THE BAD THREAD STOPPPPPPP!!!!!
(http://www.killthehydra.com/wp-content/uploads/power-of-christ-compels-you-this-is-the-end-gif.gif)
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DEAR GOD! MAKE THE BAD THREAD STOPPPPPPP!!!!!
(http://www.killthehydra.com/wp-content/uploads/power-of-christ-compels-you-this-is-the-end-gif.gif)
To be PC and not offend perhaps insert "The power of (insert God of your choice) compels you!" This is a very sensitive crowd. :)
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DEAR GOD! MAKE THE BAD THREAD STOPPPPPPP!!!!!
(http://www.killthehydra.com/wp-content/uploads/power-of-christ-compels-you-this-is-the-end-gif.gif)
(http://nomorepopcorn.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/casper-guido-sarducci.jpg?w=590)
That ... didn't help. ;)
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To be PC and not offend perhaps insert "The power of (insert God of your choice) compels you!" This is a very sensitive crowd. :)
Ya think?
At the very least it got you two to agree on something. Yeesh.
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Ya think?
At the very least it got you two to agree on something. Yeesh.
You two?
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Ya think?
At the very least it got someone to agree on something. Yeesh.
My appologies, Bear...fixed....kinda. ;)
Poor bustr....what was his original post about again? :D
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We spend more time demonizing capturing bases in this forum than congratulating it's success, or discussing it's anatomy towards creating success.
^ The gist.