Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: vent on August 22, 2013, 07:10:19 PM
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I am curious why some people can see gv's before others when you or they are spawning in. I have heard the phrase "lag" which doesn't mean all that much to me. Sometimes, a gv will get 2 shots off at me before he appears on my screen. Is it my internet connection, computer speed, or theirs?
The second part of this lag question is it seems like certain people in gv's take more hits than others. The same person will take 3-4 shots straight in the side before they go down while others require only one consistently.
Thank you for the responses ahead of time.
And yes, I did a search and could not come up with anything.
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Combination of both...
There is a 3-5 second spawn-appearance time, which is partly to help ones spawning in...
But as for people absorbing extreme amounts a punishment as seen from your end, their pwnage simply hasn't caught up yet when they were already dead...
In a nut-shell, there is typically alot happening at the same time and there will be lag between all the people...
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Thanks for the response. Is this something that is unavoidable and on the server level, or something I can improve by adding memory, internet speed etc...
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Thanks for the response. Is this something that is unavoidable and on the server level, or something I can improve by adding memory, internet speed etc...
The speed of light isn't going to change. The server could get faster but that's not your call. You could get a faster cpu and gpu and move closer to Texas but those would be fairly expensive. If you have a wireless router and a satellite dish to connect to the internet you'd be better off with cable but it's still not available way out in the woods.
It's the nature of games like this. Communication speed is everything but there's little you can do to improve it.
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The guy is not talking about a few milliseconds. To fire 4 shots can take over 10 seconds. What ever he us seeing is not lag. Probably the cell just bounced off
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Related but not the same ..... I would like to see better smoothing coad when viewing zoomed at extreme range. Clearly when bouncing off trees or manoeuvring small hills the enemy tank under goes some very strange changes in direction.
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The guy is not talking about a few milliseconds. To fire 4 shots can take over 10 seconds. What ever he us seeing is not lag. Probably the cell just bounced off
A few days ago I was sitting near the VH at a port waiting for it to pop while we were trying to take.
It popped. I says to myself, "Self, lets get ready to kill some GV's!"
Then a T34 magically appears about 5 vehicle lengths outside of the VH, main gun aimed right at me, and he 1-shot kills me within 1 second of him appearing on my screen.
He had to have spawned, put it in gear and rolled forward, stopped, looked around, and had time to bring his gun to bear on me..... at least 5 seconds from him spawning to me seeing him. I tried to replicate with a T34 what he did, and it took at least 5 seconds, sometimes more (he turned his turret about 150 degrees, as I was behind the VH and to the side).
That kind of stuff is one of the only gripes I have about the GV game.
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I think the above delay is by design to give spawning gvs a chance. Not sure though
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Easy to game it for the clowns who are able to induce lag.
Some players naturally have high latency which will cause something similar to happen but not to the extent of what you described.
The smarter guys actually look around in the tower before they spawn so they will immediately be turning the turret toward the guy camping the hangar the second they spawn in.
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Easy to game it for the clowns who are able to induce lag.
Some players naturally have high latency which will cause something similar to happen but not to the extent of what you described.
The smarter guys actually look around in the tower before they spawn so they will immediately be turning the turret toward the guy camping the hangar the second they spawn in.
I wouldn't say spawning at a camped spawn is smart in any situation. The game is flawed as long as people can sit at a spawn point waiting for the predictable appearance of an enemy.
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That kind of stuff is one of the only gripes I have about the GV game.
My only gripe is the spawn-campers who kill the potential for a great battle -- but I suppose if you've made it to the hangar, the fight must already be over.
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Easy to game it for the clowns who are able to induce lag.
just out of curiosity, how do you think this is accomplished? Just asking because people bring it up all the time and I don;t think it is possible with out special equipment and without HT catching you. I don't think most people that talk about "net lag" really have a clue on how this game works even though there has been at list one thread where HT explained a few things.
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There's several factors at play here.
First the game allows a few seconds before a spawner appears. That allows the spawner to actually get to his turret before you see him.
Second is lag. Once the player spawns his computer tells the server which in turn tells your computer. The lag is the combined time from him to the server to you so even if you have a fast connection he may not, allowing him some additional time. Internet connection speed (i.e. cable vs dial-up) makes little difference. It's the routing time across the internet that makes the difference and each of you will have different ping rates.
Third is the way the game code is written. Your computer is continually updated with other player positions. The further those players are from you the slower the update rates. This can be seen when watching a distant dot in the air. It will sit still then transport several hundred feet then sit still again but as you draw nearer it's movement will be fluid. This can be exploited by moving to a base as far away from the one you want to spawn from as possible, then going to your spawn base and spawning immediately. It takes several seconds for the server to recognize the difference in distance and begin to provide updates properly.
Finally, as someone already mentioned, a smart player will have scoped the field from the tower using F5 then F8 and know exactly where you are before ever spawning. If they take advantage of all of the above they are most likely going to kill you before you realize what happened. Hanger camping is a dangerous (and stupid) proposition so do so at your own risk.
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There's several factors at play here.
Second is lag. Once the player spawns his computer tells the server which in turn tells your computer. The lag is the combined time from him to the server to you so even if you have a fast connection he may not, allowing him some additional time. Internet connection speed (i.e. cable vs dial-up) makes little difference. It's the routing time across the internet that makes the difference and each of you will have different ping rates.
So, in your opinion if your ping time is 30ms and mine 150ms somehow I will be able to take advantage of the additional time? FYI, HT has taken care of the differences in ping times.
Third is the way the game code is written. Your computer is continually updated with other player positions. The further those players are from you the slower the update rates. This can be seen when watching a distant dot in the air. It will sit still then transport several hundred feet then sit still again but as you draw nearer it's movement will be fluid. This can be exploited by moving to a base as far away from the one you want to spawn from as possible, then going to your spawn base and spawning immediately. It takes several seconds for the server to recognize the difference in distance and begin to provide updates properly.
Can you send me a copy of the code please? I am sure I can fix it so it does not take a few seconds to recognize where you spawned lol.
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So, in your opinion if your ping time is 30ms and mine 150ms somehow I will be able to take advantage of the additional time? FYI, HT has taken care of the differences in ping times.
Can you send me a copy of the code please? I am sure I can fix it so it does not take a few seconds to recognize where you spawned lol.
You'll be able to take advantage of 180ms. The way HT takes care of the difference in ping times is through smoothing. There's nothing to smooth on an initial spawn.
Obviously I don't have the code but go online and try it for yourself with a couple of your buddies. It's always been that way. And I'm pretty sure YOU wouldn't be able to fix it lol.
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You'll be able to take advantage of 180ms. The way HT takes care of the difference in ping times is through smoothing. There's nothing to smooth on an initial spawn.
Obviously I don't have the code but go online and try it for yourself with a couple of your buddies. It's always been that way. And I'm pretty sure YOU wouldn't be able to fix it lol.
Don't say so. Perhaps HT should hire dedalos!
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You'll be able to take advantage of 180ms. The way HT takes care of the difference in ping times is through smoothing. There's nothing to smooth on an initial spawn.
The server is sending data at set intervals and so does the client. I checked years ago and it was every 250ms. Therefore, 30ms ping or 200ms ping does not make a difference. If your ping gets close to 250ms then it may make a difference. But as I said, most people talking about net lag and how the game woks really don't have a clue. However, if you think you can take advantage of 180ms in a GV you are a very fast man. You can do something in the amount of time it takes me to blink my eyes 2 or 3 times :rofl
Obviously I don't have the code but go online and try it for yourself with a couple of your buddies. It's always been that way. And I'm pretty sure YOU wouldn't be able to fix it lol.
Obviously you don't but you an state facts about it :lol
What makes you so sure about that? Does the fact that I disagree with your non facts make you upset? lol
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Don't say so. Perhaps HT should hire dedalos!
All I meant was that he does not have the code and he should not be making these statements. I am sure if the code did that HT could fix it easily but eagle really does not have a clue what the code does or does not do.
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The server is sending data at set intervals and so does the client. I checked years ago and it was every 250ms. Therefore, 30ms ping or 200ms ping does not make a difference. If your ping gets close to 250ms then it may make a difference. But as I said, most people talking about net lag and how the game woks really don't have a clue. However, if you think you can take advantage of 180ms in a GV you are a very fast man. You can do something in the amount of time it takes me to blink my eyes 2 or 3 times :rofl
Obviously you don't but you an state facts about it :lol
What makes you so sure about that? Does the fact that I disagree with your non facts make you upset? lol
So if it takes me 30 ms to ping the server and I do so just after it's sent updates does that mean it will be 280ms before someone else see I spawned? And if the other guys ping is 120ms does tha mean he sees me spawn in 400ms? You seem to know so enlighten us.
I'm not the least bit upset. Someone asked how these things happen and I tried to explain. Just because you like to troll me on the forums doesn't make me wrong and you right.
All I meant was that he does not have the code and he should not be making these statements. I am sure if the code did that HT could fix it easily but eagle really does not have a clue what the code does or does not do.
Third is the way the game code is written. Your computer is continually updated with other player positions. The further those players are from you the slower the update rates. This can be seen when watching a distant dot in the air. It will sit still then transport several hundred feet then sit still again but as you draw nearer it's movement will be fluid.
So this is wrong? Please, again, tell us how it works then.
You seem to know all about this stuff yet you offer no explinations or solutions.
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So if it takes me 30 ms to ping the server and I do so just after it's sent updates does that mean it will be 280ms before someone else see I spawned? And if the other guys ping is 120ms does tha mean he sees me spawn in 400ms? You seem to know so enlighten us.
I'm not the least bit upset. Someone asked how these things happen and I tried to explain. Just because you like to troll me on the forums doesn't make me wrong and you right.
So this is wrong? Please, again, tell us how it works then.
You seem to know all about this stuff yet you offer no explinations or solutions.
Not trolling you at all. You just posted something that was wrong and claim knowledge you cannot possibly have (the code). You are wrong because of the facts, not because of what you call a "troll". After all, if you had a clue about how it works you would not be asking these questions. BTW, I thought I offered an explanation.
To answer your questions above above, no. It means that server "waits" for 250ms. Receives data, does what ever processing it needs to do and then sends an update. That makes it a level playing field for slow and fast connections to update the server. After that, you will receive an update at half your ping time.
So, assuming we exclude the code HT has in place to help the guy spawning:
So if it takes me 30 ms to ping the server and I do so just after it's sent updates does that mean it will be 280ms before someone else see I spawned?
No, it will be 250ms + (their ping / 2)
And if the other guys ping is 120ms does tha mean he sees me spawn in 400ms? You seem to know so enlighten us.
Again, it should be 250ms + (120ms / 2)
Also include your computer processing time after the packet is received.
I think the above is right but I don't have knowledge of the code so I could be missing something (or a lot). The only 'fact' that I have is the 250ms send and receive. I am not sure why you think any number of milliseconds would make any difference in a GV. The original poster was talking about several seconds. Do you think you could react in 100ms?
I am also willing to bet based on your question that you had no idea about the (ping / 2), yet you are here explaining things away lol
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All I meant was that he does not have the code and he should not be making these statements. I am sure if the code did that HT could fix it easily but eagle really does not have a clue what the code does or does not do.
And I was serious. I have seen what magic a skilled coder can pull from his hat. Black or white :P
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What's the longest amount of lag you can induce before the server will kick you?
I'm sure it's quite a few seconds...........surely long enough for a P51 in front of your guns to invert, fly underground for a pretty long time, and suddenly have the hand of god put him on your six.
It can be gamed to advantage in many situations whether defensive or offensive.
Your best defense is to film film film and, if you see this stuff from the same player over and over, check his stats for outright discos. If he has very few, then it's possible he's gaming lag and you should send in a few short clips of it to HTC.
HTC has to walk a fine line with the threshold at which the server will kick you or they could end up having players quit if the server kicks them every time they have a hiccup in connection ping times so that threshold is pretty high.
As players, it's up to us to provide evidence of any gaming of lag that gives the lagger an advantage over players.
That doesn't mean you should flood HTC with films of every player you see lag but we do have a screenshots and films forum in which you can subtly point the finger without naming the player in your text in an accusatory tone since the icons in the film will identify him.
This could help players "self-police" this bad behavior by shaming the intentional laggers.
If enough players keep posting suspicious lag films of the same player, HTC might be inclined to check the arena logs for the player to see if said lagging player has a rock solid connection that only goes "fruity" when someone is on his six.......or when he spawns in a GV......or when he suddenly warps from the opposite side of a mound to right next to you.
Film it, check player's score for discos to see if he simply has a bad connection, then post it if you see something suspicious.
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Ice,
If someone was able to induce lag at will, wouldnt they be effecting them selves also? They would have to only delay or drop sendin packets but not receiving. Lag does happen and what you described sounds more like dropped packets or bad satellite connection.
I m not saying it is impossible but we are talking about a community that needed to be told what alt-f4 does. I d be very surprised if anyone could do it on demand with out HT busting them with in a day or two.
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Dude.....I'm trying to hip you to something without giving the entire forum a tutorial on how to induce lag and best game it.
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There is nothing incorrect in eagles posting.
At one time I thought about changing it so that a spawn would occur instantly. And then decided I like the variable spawn time when it came to vehicle camping. Gave the spawner a change to kill the attacker.
The reason for the delay is mostly due to the way the server keeps track of who you need to see. It has a list of near people, and then everyone else. The server updates you 4 times a sec.
During each update, it looks at only some of the people in the everyone else list. So some times a spawn can been seen almost immediately,some times a few seconds after launch. It simply depends where the server is in the everyone else list when the player spawns.
Also the spawner does not always have an advantage. If the remote spawn point is far enough away, he will have the same lag as the camper.
As far as purposely inducing lag. This myth has been around since I started playing AW in 1991. The strange thing is that I have always heard accusations, but it always is the other guy doing it. Never once has anyone shown an advantage to be had.
The question is not if a delay could be induced purposely, it really is that there is nothing to be gained from inducing this lag. Your plane can still be killed, and flying on a very predictable path while the temporary disconnect is happening.
HiTech
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There is nothing incorrect in eagles posting.
At one time I thought about changing it so that a spawn would occur instantly. And then decided I like the variable spawn time when it came to vehicle camping. Gave the spawner a change to kill the attacker.
The reason for the delay is mostly due to the way the server keeps track of who you need to see. It has a list of near people, and then everyone else. The server updates you 4 times a sec.
During each update, it looks at only some of the people in the everyone else list. So some times a spawn can been seen almost immediately,some times a few seconds after launch. It simply depends where the server is in the everyone else list when the player spawns.
Also the spawner does not always have an advantage. If the remote spawn point is far enough away, he will have the same lag as the camper.
As far as purposely inducing lag. This myth has been around since I started playing AW in 1991. The strange thing is that I have always heard accusations, but it always is the other guy doing it. Never once has anyone shown an advantage to be had.
The question is not if a delay could be induced purposely, it really is that there is nothing to be gained from inducing this lag. Your plane can still be killed, and flying on a very predictable path while the temporary disconnect is happening.
HiTech
Thank you.
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Eagle, what ever you posted does not explain the OPs question. It does not even come close.
No one can take advantage of a few milliseconds.
No one is inducing lag.
4 shots do not take a few milliseconds.
Lag does not explain the OP question.
That is why I say you are wrong.
Notice how HT stated pretty much exactly what I said?
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this thread reminds me of joeblack, lol
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Notice how HT stated pretty much exactly what I said?
You just posted something that was wrong
There is nothing incorrect in eagles posting.
HiTech
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good, now read past the first line. ;)
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Notice how HT stated pretty much exactly what I said?
Nope.
What I do see is HT saying nothing I typed was wrong, as you so adamantly tried to argue was, and now I see a pathetic attempt to twist what was said to save face.
I bet you're also the guy who blames everyone else in the arena when you get shot down.
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Nope.
What I do see is HT saying nothing I typed was wrong, as you so adamantly tried to argue was, and now I see a pathetic attempt to twist what was said to save face.
I bet you're also the guy who blames everyone else in the arena when you get shot down.
lol. Yeah, that is me bud. You are correct. Do I need to do a cute post that compares his and my quotes?
Both of you did nothing to address the op question.
Did also notice that all your replies end with some lame attempt at an insult? Make it a good one on the next one please lol
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Oh well, dinner is not ready and I am bored so here you go lol. Enjoy
There is nothing incorrect in eagles posting.
It does not explain what the OP is describing
The guy is not talking about a few milliseconds. To fire 4 shots can take over 10 seconds. What ever he us seeing is not lag. Probably the cell just bounced off
At one time I thought about changing it so that a spawn would occur instantly. And then decided I like the variable spawn time when it came to vehicle camping. Gave the spawner a change to kill the attacker.
I think the above delay is by design to give spawning gvs a chance. Not sure though
The reason for the delay is mostly due to the way the server keeps track of who you need to see. It has a list of near people, and then everyone else. The server updates you 4 times a sec.
So, in your opinion if your ping time is 30ms and mine 150ms somehow I will be able to take advantage of the additional time? FYI, HT has taken care of the differences in ping times.
The server is sending data at set intervals and so does the client. I checked years ago and it was every 250ms. Therefore, 30ms ping or 200ms ping does not make a difference. If your ping gets close to 250ms then it may make a difference. But as I said, most people talking about net lag and how the game woks really don't have a clue. However, if you think you can take advantage of 180ms in a GV you are a very fast man. You can do something in the amount of time it takes me to blink my eyes 2 or 3 times
As far as purposely inducing lag. This myth has been around since I started playing AW in 1991. The strange thing is that I have always heard accusations, but it always is the other guy doing it. Never once has anyone shown an advantage to be had.
The question is not if a delay could be induced purposely, it really is that there is nothing to be gained from inducing this lag. Your plane can still be killed, and flying on a very predictable path while the temporary disconnect is happening.
If someone was able to induce lag at will, wouldnt they be effecting them selves also? They would have to only delay or drop sendin packets but not receiving. Lag does happen and what you described sounds more like dropped packets or bad satellite connection.
I m not saying it is impossible but we are talking about a community that needed to be told what alt-f4 does. I d be very surprised if anyone could do it on demand with out HT busting them with in a day or two.
I bet you still don't see my point
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Did also notice that all your replies end with some lame attempt at an insult? Make it a good one on the next one please lol
You've tried to insult me in all of your posts. And now you're proven wrong and can't admit it. I simply put 2 and 2 together to make a charachter assesment in my last post.
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You've tried to insult me in all of your posts. And now you're proven wrong and can't admit it. I simply put 2 and 2 together to make a charachter assesment in my last post.
lol. Ok so I have a character of 4. Do me one favor then. Explain how anything you said addresses the op question and if you want explain what if what I posted was wrong.
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lol. Ok so I have a character of 4. Do me one favor then. Explain how anything you said addresses the op question and if you want explain what if what I posted was wrong.
I am curious why some people can see gv's before others when you or they are spawning in.
Answered in my post. See the part about lag.
I have heard the phrase "lag" which doesn't mean all that much to me.
Answered in my post. See the part about lag.
Sometimes, a gv will get 2 shots off at me before he appears on my screen. Is it my internet connection, computer speed, or theirs?
Two shots sounds like an exageration. One is definitely possible. How does a spawner get off a shot before you see them? Answered in my post. See the entire post.
The second part of this lag question is it seems like certain people in gv's take more hits than others. The same person will take 3-4 shots straight in the side before they go down while others require only one consistently.
Not addressed.
Now you show me where anything you posted addressed the OP's conerns.
BTW, try not to exaggerate like this trying to prove you're right:
Eagle, what ever you posted does not explain the OPs question. It does not even come close.
No one can take advantage of a few milliseconds.
No one is inducing lag.
4 shots do not take a few milliseconds.
Lag does not explain the OP question.
That is why I say you are wrong.
Notice how HT stated pretty much exactly what I said?
BTW BTW, in response to the above by sentence:
Wrong
Go online and try it.
Response to someone elses post, not mine.
Exaggeration. The OP never said that.
Yes, it does.
Wrong again.
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My first 2 post?
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My first 2 post?
These two?
The guy is not talking about a few milliseconds. To fire 4 shots can take over 10 seconds. What ever he us seeing is not lag. Probably the cell just bounced off
I think the above delay is by design to give spawning gvs a chance. Not sure though
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Thank you for the kind responses, my question has been answered.