Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: earl1937 on August 24, 2013, 09:25:32 AM
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:airplane: I was just wondering which aircraft you guys think is the toughest and hardest aircraft to kill in AH? I guess I am going to have to vote for the F6F, flown by "Greebo" as the hardest to kill in this game. I witnessed 4 aircraft on him and his F6F not to long ago, and he got away! Always seems to land 3 to 8 kills almost every sortie. Has Greebo found an element of ACM that the rest of us do not know about yet?
(http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p684/earl1937/f6f_zps15e7fc9e.jpg)
This is much is true, it was and is one tough bird, but "un-killable"? Just wondering!
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Greebo has two things going for him.
1, His exceptional aim. Get in front of his guns and he scores hit, be at his convergence and your in the tower.
2, His SA. He is very good at rolling out of the way because he KNOWS when your coming in at him, and should you over shoot in front of his guns.... well see #1 :D
The F6F is a tough bird, but the skill Greebo has in timing his avoidance due to his SA makes him last that much longer while under fire.
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I saw an F6F at an airshow in Southern Indiana in the 90s, and I was amazed at how huge it was. It was about the same size as the P47 parked near it.
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For sheer number of hit points per section? The B-29 followed by the B-17 followed by the Lancaster.
In terms of difficulty to actually kill via combination of maneuverability and durability? I'd nominate the F4F, FM2, F6F and Ki-84.
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I saw an F6F at an airshow in Southern Indiana in the 90s, and I was amazed at how huge it was. It was about the same size as the P47 parked near it.
It's tough... As it should be... Grumman Ironworks, you know.
Last evening, having killed two panzers, something on the base shot off half of my left wing. I headed out to the carrier. As I got there, three low formations of Ju 88s were reported heading for the CV. I had enough control, so I headed out to intercept. The first two formations were dead ahead as I passed over the CV. I HO'd planes in each, starting several smoking. I swung around and hit the last formation from behind. A C-Hog killed one, I killed the other two. Meanwhile, a dozen formations hit the CV from about 15k high. Nothing I could do about them. With the CV down, I had a full sector to fly to the nearest base. The Hellcat had taken a few hits from the Ju 88s, but suffered no additional damage. I was still in visual range of the friendly fleet when a 190 appeared above and dived in. The Hellcat didn't have much maneuverability, but I was able to evade much of the cannon fire, taking a few minor hits. The 190 pilot failed to go vertical, and I kicked rudder and hosed him good as he blew by. I shot off half of his right wing and an elevator. The pilot was unable to control the 190 and he crashed. A little later, I landed the F6F and 5 kills (and 4 assists). Very few AH fighters could absorb that battering and still fly well enough to shoot down 3 aircraft.
Bouncy landing... But not bad....
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I'd nominate the F4F, FM2...
True story. The Wildcats may be, for their size, the most rugged machines in the game. Even if you get them in convergence you still have to pour a LOT of fire into them to bring them down.
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Ki84 takes more hits than any plane in the game and still can fight.
Greebo in anything.
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Seems to me the toughest birds in the game are the F6F F4F and Hurricane. Just my impression.
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Its a toss up between the KI84 and the FM2 in terms of taking punishment, F6Fs are middle of the road in my experience in terms of taking damage, I suspect Greebo avoids the bullets though :lol
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Somehow I thought that weight would directly correlate with damage durability. 410 proved me wrong. :rolleyes:
-C+
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I guess the F8 takes more punishment than most jabo/fighters in here, got hit by autoack no less than 5 times with no damage.
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I've found that the toughest plane in AH is generallythe one i am shooting at :aok
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Somehow I thought that weight would directly correlate with damage durability. 410 proved me wrong. :rolleyes:
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There were numerous aircraft in the game that proved that wrong prior to the introduction of the Me410. Bf109s, for example, are much tougher than Spitfires while also being lighter. P-51s are pretty heavy, but not particularly durable. F4Fs are very durable, and no heavier than Spitfires. The Ki-84, only as heavy as a late model Spitfire, is much more durable than Spitfires.
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I wouldn't list the Ki-84 as "durable"... it's average. It's not particularly weak, nor particularly strong. Definitely NOT amongst the Grumman birds in comparison.
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Ki61.
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Ki61.
First gen damage model. Might just be buggy like when the B-26 soaks up 15x 30mm rounds and doesn't go down. Wait til its remodeled, then see if it's the same.
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I wouldn't list the Ki-84 as "durable"... it's average. It's not particularly weak, nor particularly strong. Definitely NOT amongst the Grumman birds in comparison.
Ohh believe me its more than durable, a burst that my FW would usually snap say a P51 in half takes about 3 for a ki84
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There were numerous aircraft in the game that proved that wrong prior to the introduction of the Me410. Bf109s, for example, are much tougher than Spitfires while also being lighter. P-51s are pretty heavy, but not particularly durable. F4Fs are very durable, and no heavier than Spitfires. The Ki-84, only as heavy as a late model Spitfire, is much more durable than Spitfires.
:airplane: My list of "hard to kill" in Aces High!
#1- F6F
#2- F4U's (especially 1A's)
#3- Jug series, 47N being hardest
#4- B-17
#5- ME163's
#6- KI84
#7- FM2
#8- Tiger II Tank
#9- B-29
#10- Anything that shoots back at me!
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Ohh believe me its more than durable, a burst that my FW would usually snap say a P51 in half takes about 3 for a ki84
Ki84 is one of my favorite rides, behind only the C.205. I've flown it tons, and take damage just as easily as any other plane. It is, however, much more nimble and more likely to get a glancing blow as compared to the lumbering P-51, which must sit there and absorb all damage.
I also fly Fw190s quite a bit, and have on many an occasion popped a wayward Ki84 with one solid burst.
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I wouldn't list the Ki-84 as "durable"... it's average. It's not particularly weak, nor particularly strong. Definitely NOT amongst the Grumman birds in comparison.
I'd agree with this. The Ki-84 certainly stands out compared to the other Japanese birds, but the American iron (particularly the P-47, Wildcats, F6F and F4Us) is at another level altogether. What makes the Ki-84 difficult to bring down is less any toughness of the airframe than she is just plain difficult to hit in the first place. She's more tolerant of light snapshots than A6Ms and the Oscar, (and I'd argue the Ki-61 and N1K2, as well) but you do NOT want to take any sort of solid hit in one.
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I've found that the toughest plane in AH is generallythe one i am shooting at :aok
lol +1
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I find the Ki-84 takes a lot more hits than the other single engined fighters I fly, particularly wing hits.
The Mosquito is very tough, but it is so big that it gets hit a lot more and that masks its durability. Against the auto-ack it holds together better than any other fighter I fly by a huge margin.
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I find the Ki-84 takes a lot more hits than the other single engined fighters I fly, particularly wing hits.
The Mosquito is very tough, but it is so big that it gets hit a lot more and that masks its durability. Against the auto-ack it holds together better than any other fighter I fly by a huge margin.
The Ki-84 should be as well, if you compare its construction to some of its peers. Of course you will invariably get a pilot wound if you receive much fire at all.
The Mosquito should also be pretty tough because of its structure and also the materials employed. I suspect it's slightly unrealistic to lose one wing.
I think most American aircraft, especially the blue planes, simply had an awful lot more structure and hence a good bit of structural redundancy.
Yaks, the previous versions at least, seemed to take about three times more hits to bring down and the Tempest is also very resilient in Aces High.
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For planes overall, the B-17, B-26, etc. are much tougher than fighters.
For planes that can dogfight, the A-20 seems to me to be the toughest, maybe followed by an Il-2.
Of planes that are specifically fighters, F6F's, F4U's, P-47's, F4F's, FM-2's, P-38's, and FW 190A's seem tough. Maybe Bf 110's as well -- not sure.
Mossies don't seem very tough in my limited experience of flying them.
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Bf110 is less durable than the Mossie in the tests I have run. This was a long time ago though and the Mossie's damage model has since been redone, but it got tougher not weaker.
All the big fighters seem more fragile as they catch proportionally more rounds, even a bit more due to lack of agility, while not being proportionally tougher. Compare the A-20G's durability to the Me410, Mosquito, Bf110, P-38 and P-47. Despite being only a bit bigger than those large fighters the A-20G is far, far tougher and I don't really see any justification for that.
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...the A-20G is far, far tougher and I don't really see any justification for that.
Could it be its relative 'emptiness' (not that I've ever really stuck around to see what's inside them, lol)?
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Could it be its relative 'emptiness' (not that I've ever really stuck around to see what's inside them, lol)?
It isn't big enough to have that much relative emptiness.
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I agree with Brooke on the A20, i find it the most difficult of aircraft to down with a single burst.
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I wouldn't list the Ki-84 as "durable"... it's average. It's not particularly weak, nor particularly strong. Definitely NOT amongst the Grumman birds in comparison.
sorry buddy but you are very wrong......
it don't matter how much time you have "flying" it......
what matters is how much time you have "fighting" in it....I don't want to insult you but I have seen your "fighting" I guarantee I have put that Ki in far more fighting situations in 1 month then your entire time flying it.
the Ki84 is by far one of the toughest in ability to take damage......
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Bf109s, for example, are much tougher than Spitfires while also being lighter.
As a 109 driver I do not find it particularly durable. However it is very difficult to hit because of its size. The Spitfire's huge wings do attract more fire I suspect.
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As a 109 driver I do not find it particularly durable. However it is very difficult to hit because of its size. The Spitfire's huge wings do attract more fire I suspect.
It isn't particularly durable. It seems about average to me, but it is very light so making it to average while the heavier Spitfire is notably more fragile is notable.
I do think it is tougher than the Spitfire too, not just that it gets hit less. I have hit it with bursts of 20mm fire from the Mossie for no effect, which I have never done to a Spit. I don't fire the .303s at the same time as the 20mm cannons.
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That sounds weird. I certainly have never survived something like that.
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True story. The Wildcats may be, for their size, the most rugged machines in the game. Even if you get them in convergence you still have to pour a LOT of fire into them to bring them down.
I have a film somewhere of surfinns fm2 taking a good burst from my jug and just shrugged it off :furious
Only to kill me 20 seconds later :rofl
I'd also like to add that if you can disperse damage across your airframe, it will last a bit longer, even with canon rounds.
Tough birds,
F6f
190A8
P47's
B17's
Tbm's
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greebo would be pretty awesome in most other rides!
Not sure what his obsession with the hellcat is maybe he has figured the durability combined with the ammo load out is best for his lone wolfing. He should join the few that is for sure! Yet another plucky Brit with FPH qualities!
My top 7 for absorbing damage.
1) FM2
2) A20
3) B26
4) P47 (now the fire bug hits fixed)
5) 190F8
6) F6F
7) KI-84
things like the b26 and ki-84 may have some sort of damage hit bug from an older type model? Only reason I say that is because of the updated hurricane , yaks and Lancaster now break apart easier than they did before...
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IL2 - anybody?
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Bruv,
Ki-84 is an AH2 model. Granted, one of the first three, but still AH2.
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The Mossie itself is relatively tough vs cannon rounds but it seems 30s and 50s only need a couple of hits to remove a wing and the pilot seems totally unarmored.
The 110 has a better protected pilot but it's wings seem just as susceptible to machine gun bullets while shrugging off cannon rounds.
Some B29s I run into seem to be able to absorb 50+ hits of 20mm along with 10+ hits of 30mm and fly away not even smoking while others die three at a time to a single strafing run panning across all 3 planes.
It think some packets containing the damage information your front end reports you landing aren't making it to the front end of some players.
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The Mossie itself is relatively tough vs cannon rounds but it seems 30s and 50s only need a couple of hits to remove a wing and the pilot seems totally unarmored.
Hmmm. I've not had that experience. I always have confidence in my Mossie to shrug off crossing shots from P-51Ds, not so much from anything with cannons. I've also not had a particular bad time with pilot wounds since it was updated.
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Tbm's
Yep -- forgot to add the TBM.
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I've found that the toughest plane in AH is generallythe one i am shooting at :aok
Same here Guppy!!!! :D
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No mention of the B25H?! :O
Only one word to describe this crate in AH. "Sponge."
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I agree with Brooke on the A20, i find it the most difficult of aircraft to down with a single burst.
+1
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No mention of the B25H?! :O
Only one word to describe this crate in AH. "Sponge."
My list included the bombers (B-17, B-26, etc.) as the toughest if we are including all planes, but I think most folks were thinking fighters or planes that you can dogfight in.
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My list included the bombers (B-17, B-26, etc.) as the toughest if we are including all planes, but I think most folks were thinking fighters or planes that you can dogfight in.
Anything with fixed forward guns is a figher :D
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Of the fighters I most often run into, the F6F and the P47, at least the P47 now, take the most focus of fire to kill.
I agree with a previous poster, the first time I saw a Hellcat up close, it was kind of a mind job. I'd always thought of it like an F4F, which I had also always considered to be a smallish fighter, sort of envisioned it to be the size of a Hurricane.
Heh, when I saw the Hellcat, it just didn't compute for a few seconds. It truly is almost as large in dimensions as the P47, and it's pretty heavy as well fully loaded. The cockpit seat looks VERY tiny up on top of the Hellcat's airframe, and it sits much higher than the impression pictures give it. A very very large fighter, which probably added a lot to survivability and pilot confidence. I know if I was in WW2 the Jug or Hellcat would be the fighter I would want to be at war in, with a nice big reliable air cooled R2800, lots and LOTS of ammunition, and a very rugged frame that could absorb a lot of punishment and g forces.
edit - I would also say the Mosquito, I'm sure in R/L being constructed the way it was it was pretty resilient, although the motors being liquid cooled perhaps caused the odd incident where dual rad hits made getting home impossible, but I would bet that was pretty rare. Being fast, as in real world fast, not video game fast, as it was when it was flying in WW2 prior to a lot of the real speed demons coming around, I'm sure that added to survivability, but in terms of taking hits, I bet that plywood was tougher than you would think.
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Among the pure fighters I'd give the title to the F6F, with the FM2 close second.
The A20 is a special category being a bomber that is flown like a fighter-bomber and is incredibly tough. I killed one using only the .303 guns of the mossie and it took about 2000 bullets to do so - I was unable to put all 2000 on the same spot because the A20 wouldn't sit still as I was aiming. I was really hosing it with a continuous stream till finally something vital fell off. Even with the mossie quad 20mm they often survive a good volley.
The mosquito is more durable than most single engine fighters in the game, but it is no where near the A20 scale. It has two glaring vulnerabilities - one is that it tends to catch fire more often than most planes. I attribute that to wing tanks that cover a larger area than fusellage tanks and thus are more likely to get hit. The AH Mossie have 4 wing tanks and one aux tank. The other is a high rate of pilot wounds. Real life mossies were considered very durable by their pilots, often surviving flak hits and flying 4 hours on one engine to land at home.
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Among the pure fighters I'd give the title to the F6F, with the FM2 close second.
The A20 is a special category being a bomber that is flown like a fighter-bomber and is incredibly tough. I killed one using only the .303 guns of the mossie and it took about 2000 bullets to do so - I was unable to put all 2000 on the same spot because the A20 wouldn't sit still as I was aiming. I was really hosing it with a continuous stream till finally something vital fell off. Even with the mossie quad 20mm they often survive a good volley.
The mosquito is more durable than most single engine fighters in the game, but it is no where near the A20 scale. It has two glaring vulnerabilities - one is that it tends to catch fire more often than most planes. I attribute that to wing tanks that cover a larger area than fusellage tanks and thus are more likely to get hit. The AH Mossie have 4 wing tanks and one aux tank. The other is a high rate of pilot wounds. Real life mossies were considered very durable by their pilots, often surviving flak hits and flying 4 hours on one engine to land at home.
:airplane: I would suggest you burn LO and RO first to empty, that will cut down on flamers and it sure turns a lot better! The roll rate is greatly inhanced by emptying those two tanks first!
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:airplane: I would suggest you burn LO and RO first to empty, that will cut down on flamers and it sure turns a lot better! The roll rate is greatly inhanced by emptying those two tanks first!
It does that automatically.
When loading 50%, it takes 12 minutes to burn the aux and outer tanks. Then I know I have 22 minutes on the inner wing tanks and I can push this piece of furniture to its limits. Not sure if the actual amount of fuel in the tank has any effect on the chances of it catching flame though.
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Nothing tougher than a B17! 999000 <S>
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Nothing tougher than a B17! 999000 <S>
How would you know? Fighters never land enough hits on yours for you to be able to tell. :D
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201102_battleOverGermany/pics/frame2/017-result-Image-0028.jpg)
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How would you know? Fighters never land enough hits on yours for you to be able to tell. :D
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/201102_battleOverGermany/pics/frame2/017-result-Image-0028.jpg)
lol need the 110 missiles that explode in air for those formations :devil
Tinkles
<<S>>
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lol need the 110 missiles that explode in air for those formations :devil
Tinkles
<<S>>
:rofl not sure that would even help with 999000 shootin at ya
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F8 is pretty durable. At least from below.
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Brooke...love you man <S>
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:airplane: I was just wondering which aircraft you guys think is the toughest and hardest aircraft to kill in AH?
Any plane that I am not flying! As soon as I climb into the cockpit, it becomes very killable.
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I've found that the toughest plane in AH is generallythe one i am shooting at :aok
Yeah, that too!
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Brooke...love you man <S>
Want to brin him down? Ho/collied :D
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P-47s note. They are really tough.
When I find a base with more ACK huggers than pilots I grab a 47 and go after them in their own ACK! Most of the time the hits on the 47 are not so critical that I cannot make it back.
Most importantly, the ACK huggers false sense of security is creatively removed as I follow their very predictable moves to mother ACK.
EDIT: I find the 190f a good plane for this too. Tough as nails!
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I noticed one big improvement in the damage model of the F6F when it was updated a few years back. The old model would often shed its whole horizontal tail when hit in that area, the new one usually just loses one half or the other. As losing half the tail actually makes surprisingly little difference to how the F6F flies, this has turned what was previously a death into a fighting chance of survival.
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I noticed one big improvement in the damage model of the F6F when it was updated a few years back. The old model would often shed its whole horizontal tail when hit in that area, the new one usually just loses one half or the other. As losing half the tail actually makes surprisingly little difference to how the F6F flies, this has turned what was previously a death into a fighting chance of survival.
It's not just the F6F that was updated. The horizontal stabilizer used to be treated as one object for ALL aircraft at one point.
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I submit that the Storch is the toughest, fastest, and most dangerous plane the known universe.
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It was just that the horizontal stab was a particular weak point of the F6F, its loss represented a large percentage of my deaths before the change.
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It was just that the horizontal stab was a particular weak point of the F6F, its loss represented a large percentage of my deaths before the change.
I still find the tail to be soft as heck, but the split into two halves means they have to take both off instead of just hammering one side and the whole thing goes.
To me, the tail is what keeps me from classifying the F6F as particularly tough. If someone rakes you stem to stern, the tail almost always loses a piece. Is that what the tail had a rep for? If so, cool. If not, I'd be curious to know if they forgot to carry the 1 somewhere on the tail's toughness values.
I fly the D11 jug a lot, and I've been flying the KI-84 a fair bit lately. The KI seems to be able to absorb a lot of snapshots for some reason. To me it 'feels' almost as tough as the jug against fighters, but I don't think there's anything in the game that can absorb as much damage from the front as a P47 and fly home. It's why I use it for buffs. Sure, you'll get the oil ping, but that just means you should start meandering for a friendly base after killing the buff set, as you've probably only got about 20 minutes left before the engine dies. ;)
Wiley.
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There was a problem on early F6Fs with the horizontal tail failing when pulling out of a dive which cost some pilots their lives. I'd have thought that would have been fixed by the time the F6F-5 was delivered however.
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The A20 is the toughest plane in this game IMO.
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Ki84 takes more hits than any plane in the game and still can fight.
No it can't.
ack-ack
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How would you know? Fighters never land enough hits on yours for you to be able to tell. :D
All ya need to down trip9 is 20mms.... Just LOTS and LOTS of them. 4 is a good start. 6 is better.
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All ya need to down trip9 is 20mms.... Just LOTS and LOTS of them. 4 is a good start. 6 is better.
Or 4 30mm guns :aok
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B-17, B-24, He-111, A-20, P47's, F6F, F4F, F4U, B26, 190F8 (I think that's the model) and the A6M are all tough planes. I'm sure I could walk away from quite a few hits in all of them.
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and the A6M are...tough planes.
:huh :huh :huh :O :O :O :huh :huh :huh
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:huh :huh :huh :O :O :O :huh :huh :huh
if you can spread the hits the a6 can take more hits than a spit :lol
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Or 4 30mm guns :aok
Meh, don't even need 30mm. I used to relish coming across him and tatertot in close formation when in my 190A8. I liked the 4x20mm package back then. It did the job, so 4x20mm is a good start. :D
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Meh, don't even need 30mm. I used to relish coming across him and tatertot in close formation when in my 190A8. I liked the 4x20mm package back then. It did the job, so 4x20mm is a good start. :D
cant go wrong with the A8 :aok
wish you could fire the 103's separately tho :furious
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cant go wrong with the A8 :aok
wish you could fire the 103's separately tho :furious
You mean Mk 108's? The A8 never carried 103's.
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You mean Mk 108's? The A8 never carried 103's.
thanks for the correction.
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Bf110 is less durable than the Mossie in the tests I have run. This was a long time ago though and the Mossie's damage model has since been redone, but it got tougher not weaker.
All the big fighters seem more fragile as they catch proportionally more rounds, even a bit more due to lack of agility, while not being proportionally tougher. Compare the A-20G's durability to the Me410, Mosquito, Bf110, P-38 and P-47. Despite being only a bit bigger than those large fighters the A-20G is far, far tougher and I don't really see any justification for that.
I've been saying that for a couple years now :aok