Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Wagger on September 17, 2013, 02:41:22 PM
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I was stationed at Fr Irwin from 1994-1997. Call Sign Cobra 13C. Cobra team was the Armored Task Force Trainning team. I was a Mechanized Infantry Trainer. OC'ed Mech Infantry platoons, Anti Armor Platoons, and Tank Platoons. Sending out greetings to all who served. If you were stationed at or rotated through Fr Irwin give us a shout.
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I was Tarantula 15 light task force (airborne) engineer trainer 2008 to 2010. Then I was bronco 15 brigade engineer trainer. I have tarantula bronco and sidewinder buckles. Big salute to another gentleman of the desert.
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Well, I trained there in 2010, in Pretendistan. Way back when I read the book Dragons at War, by (as I recall) Daniel P Bolger, about his experience as OC B on the first rotations through NTC, so it was kind of neat to go over the same ground many years later, now with the OC experience myself.
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Rotated through Feb/Mar 1985. 2/9 Cav 24th Inf Div (Mech)
Froze our butts off but it was an excellent excercise.
I believe it's because of the Ft. Irwin experience that Desert Storm went so well.
Salutes!
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I am there now. Callsign Raven 07T. I do combat airspace management/planning for the USAF GREEN FLAG-West exercise, which is run in conjunction with the NTC rotations. I also control all assets above the coordinating altitude during rotation. I should have two more rotations here then its off to Korea and that dreaded staff tour with 7th AF.
-FBDurr
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Two wekes ago I cud not spell ROZ and now I r one!
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Was 1/16th Infantry 1st I.D. last time I was there in Nov-Dec? 94
We kicked OPFOR's booty :neener:
:cheers: Oz
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That is something I haven't seen in 2 years here (OPFOR getting beat that is). Part of that is because most of the rotations since I have been here have been COIN style, where there is no winner or loser strictly speaking, but in the full scale force-on-force rotations the OPFOR usually just demolishes the RTU. The first real full up rotation simulating a near-peer (12-05) resulted in OPFOR rolling up into the visiting Brigade's TOC within about 45 minutes as I recall. Hopefully our local "Russians" are a lot better than the real Russians!
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For everybody that has no idea what we are talking about, the US Army maintains a National Training Center at Fort Irwin, CA. It is wayyyy out in the middle of the Mojave Desert (not far south of Death Valley actually). It consists of nearly a thousand square miles of mountainous desert terrain interspersed with about a dozen or so towns and villages, some of which are amazingly large.
There is a local opposing force or OPFOR (the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment) of about 5k soldiers, and they have vehicles that are mocked up to simulate Soviet style equipment (to include T-72s, BMP's, BRDM's, etc). Ten times a year, for almost a month, a Brigade rotates through for training (typically right before deploying downrange). It takes a few days to setup, then they have special training exercises for about a week, which are more scripted (including full up live fire events); followed by a week of "direct action" which is a free play unscripted maneuver battle between the OPFOR and the RTU (rotational unit). Its all scored using laser systems (MILES for those familiar), and the whole range is wired to track everything right down to each individual shot. There is air support including pretty much everything in the US inventory, and the battle literally encompasses the full spectrum, including electronic and cyber warfare.
Its a fascinating exercise, and has saved countless lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Army was lucky when it chose Fort Irwin in the 1980's, given that it literally looks exactly like Afghanistan, which has been helpful in putting on realistic exercises.
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I'm sure the local Russians are better than the real Russians. They also have the advantage of intimately knowing the ground, which wouldn't be true in a real war.
Of course, the real Russians still have about two thousand operational strategic nuclear weapons, which kinda renders the exercise of armoured brigades an exercise in wishful thinking.
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Of course, the real Russians still have about two thousand operational strategic nuclear weapons, which kinda renders the exercise of armoured brigades an exercise in wishful thinking.
Not at all. To begin with while the odds of fighting actual Russians is small the odds of facing off against Russian made equipment and tactics is very high. As we found out in the Gulf and Iraq-2. Even if we ended up fighting the Russians the chances it would go nuclear is rather small cause we have as many nukes and probably better ones. In nuclear war neither wins while in conventional war one can win, or both sides can not lose, or one side can lose and still retain their territory and Govt.
Almost every conceivable enemy would use Russian arms or tactics. I was aware of this training asset but not very knowledgeable about it. I am indeed very glad the troops have a high opinion of it. You fight the way you practice.
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Tarantula 12B/C, June 1993 to Dec 1995. 27 Rotations, all of them Light. Light Infantry trainer/Ranger/Airborne. We really called it the Ft. Irwin Jump Club :)
For those who know, there will "ALWAYS" be a tarantula in the field !
Belt Buckle # 184, and holder of the Golden HUMMER award. (yea, that is a vehicle for some of you with active minds).
I think I walked every square inch of that desert a few times over. And most Hollywood jumps I think I ever made.
Most memorable burn site?
Agony
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Indeed, the prevalence of Soviet Era weapons and tactics in the third world is the primary justification for continuing to train to fight a Soviet style enemy. The theory is that this is the hardest possible adversary, and thus anything else we face will be easy. Unfortunately, this is like training for hockey because it's the toughest team sport out there, and then showing up with skates and sticks to play tennis. Yes, it's a much less demanding game, but you're still gonna lose. Exhibit A - Vietnam. Exhibit B - Afghanistan. Exhibit C - Iraq.
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Belt buckle 484.
Most memorable burn site, near refrigerator gap during the Santa Ana winds.... holy winds batman....
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Who could ever forget "The Whale? Or the Desert morning view of the Mountains :aok
:cheers: Oz
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Who can forget three inches of snow in the desert? Brutal. Seeing NASA Goldstone in the distance was cool though. And the stark emptiness was haunting.
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Indeed, the prevalence of Soviet Era weapons and tactics in the third world is the primary justification for continuing to train to fight a Soviet style enemy. The theory is that this is the hardest possible adversary, and thus anything else we face will be easy. Unfortunately, this is like training for hockey because it's the toughest team sport out there, and then showing up with skates and sticks to play tennis. Yes, it's a much less demanding game, but you're still gonna lose. Exhibit A - Vietnam. Exhibit B - Afghanistan. Exhibit C - Iraq.
Way to bring politics into a friendly meet the crew thread... cupcake. It is clear you have no understanding of national strategy and the relationships between the instruments of national power. In any of your "exhibits" how many tactical fights did the United States lose? Or.... was the failure political. Also, when was the last time you were at the National Training Center?
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I was at NTC in 2010, and I finished the command and staff course in July. It's that last experience which informs my comments, and they are political only in the degree that, to give the obligatory Clauswitz quote, "war is the continuation of politics by other means." I think that also encompasses the relationship between tactical training and national strategy, so I'll leave it at that.
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this thread has been very informational...not only do you army dudes get medals for successfully throwing a grenade far enough away to keep from killing yourselves, they give you belt buckles for playing around in the desert. :rofl
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this thread has been very informational...not only do you army dudes get medals for successfully throwing a grenade far enough away to keep from killing yourselves, they give you belt buckles for playing around in the desert. :rofl
They give you guys Ribbons for hanging out with Seamen :aok
:cheers: Oz
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They give you guys Ribbons for hanging out with Seamen :aok
:cheers: Oz
:rofl :lol ok somewhat true...we have do to something besides bellhop though.
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Ya'll have real neat ground-pounder call-signs.
Our P-3 squadron got stuck with 'Slimeball' ... 'Rawnuts' ... 'Schmedly' ... 'Rock' ... 'Mother.'
Ok, those were nicknames.
Our planes were 'Papa-Lima.'
(https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/524840_10151544721447140_1775296110_n.jpg)
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I was at NTC in 2010, and I finished the command and staff course in July. It's that last experience which informs my comments, and they are political only in the degree that, to give the obligatory Clauswitz quote, "war is the continuation of politics by other means." I think that also encompasses the relationship between tactical training and national strategy, so I'll leave it at that.
in 2010, NTC was transitioning to the hybrid threat and trying to find a way to manage MCO and Asymmetric. In 2010 I saw my worst rotation ever, a brigade out of Bliss. Trying to merge the two threats to test BCT systems is more than challenging. I am hope I have read a professional article you wrote summing up your experiences and how to change the scenario to best suit modern combat .... somewhere.
Training Centers and the doctrine which supports them is not the problem. It is the leaders who see only bad things and focus on them instead of understanding the true purpose of a CTC. There is a certain BCT Commander I am thinking about now (thankfully drummed out of the Army as a toxic leader). My hope is that with a decrease in OPTEMPO we can finally get back to the basic and NOT have to go to a CTC just to get the unit fenced off so we can work SOP development.
Like most of us, regardless of the systems, when I showed up to fight we could shoot, move, and communicate better than the other guys and that counted for something. The collective training on that only came for us at places like a CTC.
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Uh, are AAR's not performed? Especially critique after missions, as done in the past?
How can a Unit go to NTC and not be prepared on what's coming and Mission readiness?
Whatever happened to reviewing Combat Reports? Critical learning?
Oh well, what do I know? I was only a Cold War era 11C E-5 as Section Sgt (E-7 slot).
Had several rotations with 2 different Divisions 2nd AD & 1st ID
When I left my Instructor job at Ft. Dix, I actually had orders to Irwin.
Bums rescinded and sent me to Riley instead.
:cheers: Oz
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Hey All,
Bronco 28 (Ancient), Scorpion 02 (Ancient) July 1998 to September 2000. I learned more here watching what other people did in the desert than in the rest of my career.
Still stuck in the Mojave - current call sign is Wrangler 20.
Remember - It is waaaaaay easier to be the OC / Red Guy than it is to be the Blue Guy!
:salute to the Players.
Regards,
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Ozrocker, when did you leave 1-16??
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May 95 when I got out. I was in HHC Mortar Platoon 4.2" 107 mm Mech :aok
We had the crappy M106 A2's & M577 FDC tracks.
:cheers: Oz
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Wonder if you knew "Sparky" Stafford? He was probably a 1SG then. He had probably just came back from Germany where he and I were stationed together. I was in 1/16 from 2002 until retirement in 2005. I knew some 11 C guys down the street, Randall Fogg, and some others you may know.
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Hey any old Pershing Missile type guys here? 2/4 Inf, 56th Bde Pershing. Nelson Kaserne, Neu Ulm and Von Stuben Cas Site.
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116th Cav, ARNG Summer of 2000. Awesome experience and we won one battle!
Boo
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I was in the Army 24 yrs.............
More rotations through Fr Irwin than I would like to think about, got to the point that knew my way around Irwin better than my home station.
19D Scout.
Cavalry
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We had some fun times with Scouts when we still had CSC's.
Army did their little Order of Battle & Reorganization.
CSC's were wiped out, became HHC's.
Scouts and Mortars used to hang out a lot together,
in Garrison or deployed.
:cheers: Oz
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I loved my scout and mortar guys when I was in command.
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1/11 ACR Krazy Horse 95 - 99
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I remember the first digital rotation in the box. My first rotation as an OC for a Tank Platoon.
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Spent about a month at NTC back in, I think it was '83 with the 5th Infantry as an Armored Plt Sgt in the 3/37 AR.
Wow, it's been awhile since I thought about the Whale Back and waddies, just as MRE's we're making their appearance. We thought our C rats were tastier. :)
Nutz
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I am medically Retired from the Army with over eleven years of service with a 55% disability rating. I had an MOS as 11B10 11C10 11H10 (Infantry) 19D20 (Cav Scott) and 79R30 (Recruiter). I served with the Troop F 4Th cavalry 3rd Squadron 12Th Aviation group Danang 71-72. I worked as a range officer for BCT and Infantry AIT at Ft. Polk LA for a while after I came state side.
I was also was an Anti Armor war fare specialist at Ft Knox KY in a school called" To Catch a Tank. I finish up as a Recruiter in Wooster Ohio. I left the Army and became a Police Officer since none of my military training translated to any civilian jobs out side law enforcement. I was also a police range officer and FTO (Field Training Officer) as a Sargent. I am now totally retired from all this nonsense and only drive tanks in Aces High these days.
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I am medically Retired from the Army with over eleven years of service with a 55% disability rating. I had an MOS as 11B10 11C10 11H10 (Infantry) 19D20 (Cav Scott) and 79R30 (Recruiter). I served with the Troop F 4Th cavalry 3rd Squadron 12Th Aviation group Danang 71-72. I worked as a range officer for BCT and Infantry AIT at Ft. Polk LA for a while after I came state side.
I was also was an Anti Armor war fare specialist at Ft Knox KY in a school called" To Catch a Tank. I finish up as a Recruiter in Wooster Ohio. I left the Army and became a Police Officer since none of my military training translated to any civilian jobs out side law enforcement. I was also a police range officer and FTO (Field Training Officer) as a Sargent. I am now totally retired from all this nonsense and only drive tanks in Aces High these days.
<S> Well done, sir. Forgive me if the 'F Troop' part brought an old sitcom song to mind. ;)
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UH-60 Jumping on Spider DZ
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1049179_10151709575052949_647692094_o.jpg)
Me a few years back with my boss...
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1278966_10151709570867949_386363051_o.jpg)https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1278966_10151709570867949_386363051_o.jpg
He never caught on to the whole "red rocket" meaning lol
The correct way to park the 15 ride...
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1276621_10151709582572949_271835227_o.jpg)
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I went to NTC quite a few times. Always enjoyed it.
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Damn Dirtdart, I got me one of them Tarantula hats around here somewhere! I think that's my box on that ride of yours! On second thought, mine was a little taller :)
We use to call it the Ft. Irwin Jump Club! I loved that place. I loved being J/M on those jumps, easiest ones I ever did. Guessing the Lewis riggers are still coming down for those jumps.
good to see all those rocks we had to put down are still there! That was a painful way to spend our few days out of the box. And the buildings, well they look exactly the same. Home away from home.
I remember the first digital rotation as well, what a pain in the arse all that info they needed. I must have filled out 100 forms for every battle fought!
Cudo's on those parking skills!
T 12A ancient!
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Yeah point of oc pride is how sun faded you hat was..... man it could get hot out there. I measured 131 out at east gate one summer.
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<S> Well done, sir. Forgive me if the 'F Troop' part brought an old sitcom song to mind. ;)
We were not allowed to call it F Troop we had to say troop F or our 1stSgt went nuts because of that TV show.
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We were not allowed to call it F Troop we had to say troop F or our 1stSgt went nuts because of that TV show.
I bet. :)
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I loved my scout and mortar guys when I was in command.
A lot of Commander's did. For detail Platoon, lol.
On our CP door, it said Mortars - and every other job you can't handle.
Back in the day, I was in an Armor Bn.
We had the monthly Pay Officer/Class A inspection,
the DAT CO was trying to make us take off our Blue cords. Armor guys hated us.
In Germany during Border OPs (East/West German & Czech), guess who got ALL dismounted patrols, lol.
Of course the Tankers weren't too swift on dismounted Land Nav and probably would have become
International Incidents.
:cheers: Oz
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My scouts and mortar guys ran a program that was pretty dangerous we had a silver star among the other valor decorations. I enjoyed their intensity.
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Yeah, Mortars were intense :aok
We had some LT's that thought we were a Ranger Platoon,lol
:cheers: Oz
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Gents,
A BIG SALUTE to all those that rotated to through the NTC.
My first Rotation was in March 1982 as Wavern A65 (A/4-37 AR, 194th AR BDE). It started as a normal rotation which got extended to be a maneuver unit in Operation Gallant Eagle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNehVG_TyTc
I well remember being at 4 Corners and having to hold on to the Bustle Rack with both hands to keep the high winds from blowing us off the back deck during the Airborne Drop.
Continued with OC Augmentation missions as an instructor in the Armor School 87 to 90.
Last Rotation was June 2002 as Raider 06 (3/278 ACR) that was a great training event.
IF YOU AIN'T CAV YOU AIN"T
v/r
Jamie
TULL
367th Dynamite Gang
:old:
Oddball: The only way I got to keep them Tigers busy is to LET THEM SHOOT HOLES IN ME!
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NTC omg. I loved bike lake... I was a Air Traffic Controller there on many assignments.
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Bike Lake eh? Good old Desert Radio. I work with them very closely every day during rotation as the chief of Sundance Control for GREEN FLAG-West, and as Combat Airspace Manager for GFW.