Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: artik on October 09, 2013, 04:50:33 AM
-
Hello...
I don't know how many remember it, but there was a great squadron: 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel. It was active in AH for a long period - and I was a part of it, (does anybody remember ViFF, xcom, Doc?)
At some point its activity reduced and that it "reemerged" in the IL-2 and they are now planning to move to DCS World WW2 when it is ready(almost everybody bought that kistarter).
Currently the squadron flies IL2-1946 + HSFX packs in various historical campaigns. I'm flying with them (actually trying) but its not even near the experience I have in AH2.
IL-2 community trying to be "too" realistic, does quite a lot of dumb stuff, for example:
- Flying with no icons at all, such that I can't distinguish between Hurricane and Mc-200 from 200 yards from 6 o'clock when in real life I can distinguish between Spitfire models and from such distances (and even larger) - virtually I feel like I'm a half blind pilot :bhead
- You need to know every V-speed for every aircraft like when to put flaps up so they would not be damaged, at what altitude turn on/change stage of supercharger - and we switch planes frequently, which makes it virtaully impossible :bhead
- They do not allow interactive map so you have to "navigate"... with maps with very little details that don't give you any reference point and more than that with maps you are not really familiar (because you flew 2-3 times over it during training) :bhead
- They do "real" trimming forgetting there is (a) no bot-meter so you can't feel the G (b) there is no feedback on the stick - so trimming can't be really done well :bhead
- There is no stall warning at all (like the stick does not shake when you get close to stall in R/L planes) - because it is home stick and not real one, so getting into spin is quite unrealistically-easy :bhead
Besides all of this "realism"
- The IL-2 + HSFX is horribly bugged
- Bombing is even more horrible task that is done with tables or 3rd part programs (like WW2 bombers had no automation at all) and you can't even configure your salvo :bhead
- They use 1:2 maps and air-start (realism?) :bhead
There is some cool stuff like white vapor after high flying planes, nice looking ground (from high altitude), the more advanced communication because you need to recognize your formation members - but in general IL-2 is horrible experience.
Sometimes I think the planes are actually over-modeled as for example, in IL2, P-51D can hold 3.9G-4.0G sustained turn ratio at 250mph at sea level...
(It seems to me too high values for WW2 planes) but I can't find confirmation from a literature - to prove it (HiTech - where can I find such info?)
Basically more time I compare IL-2 and AH-2 I find how genius HTC's decisions are - about what can be done in R/L and what can be done flying simple stick looking at 1366x1024 screen. (Thank you HTC, I gladly pay my monthly $15)
They are thinking to move to DCS WW2 (when it ready)... Which not only does not run on my laptop because of requirements of massive graphics cards - it would lack even basic plane-set when it would be completed.
These guys are very professional in group ACM and protecting each other. It is really fun to fly with them, but the game is HORRIBLE. I will fly with them at least one campaign so I can get full point of view on what are they doing... but as far as I can see I wouldn't be able to continue with them.
Big Question?
How do I convince them to come back to AH - they are about 12-16 players?
I tried to do some AH2 workshops - to show the stuff... but not too many were interested as they see AH as "old generation" stigma.
So any suggestions?
-
Big Question?
How do I convince them to come back to AH - they are about 12-16 players?
I tried to do some AH2 workshops - to show the stuff... but not too many were interested as they see AH as "old generation" stigma.
So any suggestions?
Challenge their 'old generation' stigma with 'tried and true'/dedicated community/fun people/great historical events rationale. AHII is still developing, adding new planes and vehicles ..... it still has support ...... the company is owned by long-time players of AW/WB and AH who are not only experienced in game design and support but in touch with this community. They run HTC without influence from corporate managerial types who wouldn't know HOTAS or flight models from x-box or mouse-flying. This game stays true to both itself and it's community.
-
<S> artik,
Welcome home. I remember you guys :salute
:cheers: Oz
-
Come home!! Bring all your friends..good times to be had :salute
-
Come home!! Bring all your friends..good times to be had :salute
I want to... but how do I get them back? :headscratch: :headscratch: :headscratch:
(I'm obviously flying AH, but missing my old buddies)
-
I want to... but how do I get them back? :headscratch: :headscratch: :headscratch:
(I'm obviously flying AH, but missing my old buddies)
hmmmm give me sometime to figure that out..glad you've come home..maybe some of the vets will chime in when they wake up LOL
-
Um.....Two week trial? No cost? Challenge them to fly as a unit for two weeks...just two weeks....if they are not hooked by then I'd give it up.
Just be sure to keep them away from ch200 during the trial period......the dark side, it is.....
-
"Gingi"! Tell them Captain Bozon orders then back in the game or that they will close a "matkalit". :mad:
IL2, pffff.... :rolleyes:
-
Um.....Two week trial? No cost? Challenge them to fly as a unit for two weeks...just two weeks....if they are not hooked by then I'd give it up.
Just be sure to keep them away from ch200 during the trial period......the dark side, it is.....
this artik....
-
this artik....
Tried... Got 4 pilots for one sortie... not continued too much (also 2 of them were ex AH players)
-
"Gingi"! Tell them Captain Bozon orders then back in the game or that they will close a "matkalit". :mad:
IL2, pffff.... :rolleyes:
:rofl
-
Quite honestly it's probably a lost cause....but you could try using some reverse psychology. Example:
"Geez guys...I'm sorry you didn't like it. I know that some IL2 1946 players can't make the leap to AH. Flight and gunnary models are much harder and more realistic, and the on-line competition is a order of magnitude greater in the AH main arenas than can be found on the typical IL2 servers that pop up on Hyperlobby."
Statements like that are a slap in the face for any sim pilot with a shred of self respect. Likely won't work but it's an option. Be Warned - You might lose friends!
-
Artik,
I remember 101 Squadron from back in the last decade. It would be great to have you bring them all back to AH. Have you tried using special events (scenarios, FSO's, SEC, Snapshots) as the hook to bring them back? From your description of them it sounds like they're interested in flying in a more historically accurate venue than the main arena here in AH. We have a larger number of these events that I think you'll find anywhere else in the WW2 air sim community, and they run often enough to keep them interested.
Cheers,
asw
-
Hello...
I don't know how many remember it, but there was a great squadron: 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel. It was active in AH for a long period - and I was a part of it, (does anybody remember ViFF, xcom, Doc?)
Good group, remember them. :salute
-
It's the gameplay options and community that have to draw and keep them. If neither of those is any interest, it ain't gonna work.
-
Tried... Got 4 pilots for one sortie... not continued too much (also 2 of them were ex AH players)
Would it help if HTC offered a P51s desert camo skin?
(http://www.simhq.com/_air13/images/air_443a_007.jpg)
Or modeled Mirage IIIs?
(http://a4.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/115/Purple/v4/cc/67/c7/cc67c785-6406-7c07-402b-1d34fcec3866/mzl.rndjojic.320x480-75.jpg)
:D
-
Would it help if HTC offered a P51s desert camo skin?
(http://www.simhq.com/_air13/images/air_443a_007.jpg)
Cool.
Or modeled Mirage IIIs? :D
(http://a4.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/115/Purple/v4/cc/67/c7/cc67c785-6406-7c07-402b-1d34fcec3866/mzl.rndjojic.320x480-75.jpg)
Hissssssssssss.
-
Tell ViFF I said hello! We flew together in the 56th in the early 2000's. Heck of a stick - the man knew his business.
:salute
Ammo
-
Hissssssssssss.
(http://a4.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/115/Purple/v4/cc/67/c7/cc67c785-6406-7c07-402b-1d34fcec3866/mzl.rndjojic.320x480-75.jpg)
Are you insane? The Mirage III is one of the baddest looking planes EVER....and it looks really nice in desert tan.
Take THAT 262 jockeys! :D
-
How do I convince them to come back to AH - they are about 12-16 players?
You don't. :old:
it's just like trying to 'convince' someone that he should listen to your favourite singer (whom he disllikes) instead of his, or that he should prefer your favourite meal (which he already tasted) over his.
At some point, it's no longer about rationale but simply about taste.
-
Artik,
If you get the gang in on a 2 week trial or something, let me know and I'll set up a small mini event in one of the special event arenas so they can get their feet wet without getting pounced on in the mains.
We can tour them around the various aspects of aces, the fleets, ground, base capture elements, the works. That might show them more options than they currently have, albeit with a sacrifice of graphics. What we can't tell them is how quickly they lose themselves in the game if there is much to do, we have to show them.
Let me know, I'd be happy to make it happen.
-
I remember a 101 squadron from Warbirds, is this the same squad ?
I had one of my trainers, =webs= flying there ...
-
To be fair if they cannot see what you have already said in your OP they never will, some people hang to a different type of realism, usually a visual perception that if it looks photo realistic the rest should be as well.
-
I thought Xcom already played AH a bit? at least he had some excellent skills I was going to recruit him at one point!
-
two weeks is not enuff time to learn the game let alone have time to enjoy it. I tried a 2 week trial years ago and was self relegated back to warbirds as 2 weeks was barely time to learn the UI let alone get any kills. This time around I just said hell with it and just signed up........ Ill never regret it :)
-
Can you expand on what they mean by "old generation"?
-
How do I convince them to come back to AH - they are about 12-16 players?
Have them try AH during a "This Day in WWII" event. I would say during a scenario, but unfortunately they just missed one, and the next one won't be for a while.
In fact, if you'd like, go to the list of "This Day in WWII" events ( http://www.ahevents.org/events/this-day-in-wwii.html ), pick which one they think would be most fun (other than Pearl Harbor and Operation Torch, because I'm going to be running those soon anyway), and I'll work on running it on a night that suits you.
-
Artik,
You might get one or two if all else fails.
Selling a new ideology has always been tricky. Part of the problem is the group's identity and individual identity's created visa common experiences. You are asking your group in IL2 essentially to become something else with the same name in a new environment. While creating a new group and individual identity(s). They have invested time which will have to be invested again along with some who have a poor opinion of AH to cast into the voting pool. It's always easy to be here saying the transfer process was no sweat because you "wanted" to be here. Versus being dragged or influenced.
Every group at some point has members who will be open to other affiliations. For whatever reasons. Islam knows this and look what they do to curtail it. Identify them, and accomplish getting the easiest into AH for visits. Common fun experiences will carry more weight to sell AH. Which places a heavy burden on your shoulders at first, because you will be identified directly with the outcome of the experience. Then, if you get past that in one piece, get a second to visit AH with yourself and the first creating more shared fun experiences, with now half the burden. This has the potential of a domino effect when they talk about it to the others. Possibly a third wanting to join in the AH fun. We have AHers who play WoT and WarThunder. It's possible.
Or simply accept getting one or two over with you, then recruit.
I hope you have time and the patience to work this out on your potential converts time frame. New and novel experiences become their own reward as evidenced with yourself.
-
I remember a 101 squadron from Warbirds, is this the same squad ?
I had one of my trainers, =webs= flying there ...
Yes... This is the one...
Would it help if HTC offered a P51s desert camo skin?
<IAF Mustang Picture>
Ohhh. I once submitted a P-51D in bright IAF colors to HTC. It was politely rejected as it wasn't WW2 :cry
(http://2004.uploaded.fresh.co.il/2004/09/09/939001.jpg)
Artik,
If you get the gang in on a 2 week trial or something, let me know and I'll set up a small mini event in one of the special event arenas so they can get their feet wet without getting pounced on in the mains.
We can tour them around the various aspects of aces, the fleets, ground, base capture elements, the works. That might show them more options than they currently have, albeit with a sacrifice of graphics. What we can't tell them is how quickly they lose themselves in the game if there is much to do, we have to show them.
Let me know, I'd be happy to make it happen.
Have them try AH during a "This Day in WWII" event. I would say during a scenario, but unfortunately they just missed one, and the next one won't be for a while.
In fact, if you'd like, go to the list of "This Day in WWII" events ( http://www.ahevents.org/events/this-day-in-wwii.html ), pick which one they think would be most fun (other than Pearl Harbor and Operation Torch, because I'm going to be running those soon anyway), and I'll work on running it on a night that suits you.
Wow... guys, ROC, Brooke... Thanks!!!
That's it...
The great community....
:aok :aok :aok :aok :aok
-
I thought Xcom already played AH a bit? at least he had some excellent skills I was going to recruit him at one point!
Yeah... I tried to recruit him for the 3rd BoB frame... He promised to come but... he didn't. And we lost BoB :cry ;)
(Actually having xcom in our team is like having 3-4 additional players... the only thing that stops him is the amount of ammo and fuel he as in his fighter)
-
(http://a4.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/115/Purple/v4/cc/67/c7/cc67c785-6406-7c07-402b-1d34fcec3866/mzl.rndjojic.320x480-75.jpg)
Are you insane? The Mirage III is one of the baddest looking planes EVER....and it looks really nice in desert tan.
Take THAT 262 jockeys! :D
give me a Hunter to fight it with then.
-
Hey Artik, have a question
Do you really think now its the right time for you and your friends leave :bolt: the IL2?
I mean are you totally sure? :headscratch:
Now that this is coming?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4014tNwcao (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4014tNwcao) :O
-
Hey Artik, have a question
Do you really think now its the right time for you and your friends leave :bolt: the IL2?
I mean are you totally sure? :headscratch:
Now that this is coming?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4014tNwcao (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4014tNwcao) :O
Actually I can summarize my technical reason not to like IL-2 there:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,260209.msg3230104/topicseen.html#msg3230104
It is something that HiTech wrote about AH (and it is actually why it differs from IL2) - that is why I quite hate IL-2.
And not technical reasons... You can't compare their events with stuff like BoB 2013 :x
And final technical note: I fly with quite low graphical settings in AH using simple Intel card and enjoy every moment. Graphics is just a substitute for an imagination - my imagination works better :D