Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: ttso on October 12, 2013, 01:14:49 PM
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Ok this is indeed triggered by nuts ENY on LW a few hours ago, as ENY reach 28 on Sat morning (US time) :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
According to AHWiki (http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Side_balancing)
The side balancer consideres the amount of all players on the arena roster regardless of them being in flight
Now.. why ENY limits is based on all players instead of only InFlight? Tower-Huger doesn't cause any result on combat but will have an impact on ENY? Hard to understand...
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Ok this is indeed triggered by nuts ENY on LW a few hours ago, as ENY reach 28 on Sat morning (US time) :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
According to AHWiki (http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Side_balancing)
Now.. why ENY limits is based on all players instead of only InFlight? Tower-Huger doesn't cause any result on combat but will have an impact on ENY? Hard to understand...
Plenty of aircraft you can fly even when ENY is high. Let your mechanics work on those poor worn out Spixteens/LA7's/Ponies and give something else a try. :aok
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Imagine one country with a 100+ numbers advantage over the other two...Those extra 100 sit in the tower to bring ENY back to zero and then...launch a gigantic P-51D steamroller mission that obliterates any opposition.
That is why.
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Imagine one country with a 100+ numbers advantage over the other two...Those extra 100 sit in the tower to bring ENY back to zero and then...launch a gigantic P-51D steamroller mission that obliterates any opposition.
That is why.
Wasn't ENY got checked everytime you click flight? If thats the case what you described wont even happen.
The only potential problem is mission, but again it can be solved by flagging player as InFlight when he click join.
I understand it might be a server cpu reducing shortcut in the past, but nowday? :furious :furious
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Higher your aircrafts eny the better your perk farming.
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Wasn't ENY got checked everytime you click flight? If thats the case what you described wont even happen.
The only potential problem is mission, but again it can be solved by flagging player as InFlight when he click join.
I understand it might be a server cpu reducing shortcut in the past, but nowday? :furious :furious
It has nothing to do with servers. It has to do with the potential of the side becoming unbalanced. HTC isn't going to force players to switch sides to even of the playfield, but with an ENY limit they can control the force by inhibiting the equipment available to the side with the numerical superiority. So if 100 people are sitting in the tower they have the "potential" to over balance the others sides. ENY limits that by using the total players on-line instead of just in the air.
Now to cure the issue of the guys sitting in the tower instead of logging off so they can get the "win the war" perk should their team win..... well thats another issue all together.
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Its all about the pilot not the bird. Eny is stupid ,and for cry babies that cant stand how life is not fair.
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I can see the armchair Generals on country channel now:
ENY Alert. Anyone wanting to fly low ENY planes go to the tower now. Takeoff at 09:35.
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Its all about the pilot not the bird.
No. :)
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Its all about the pilot not the bird. Eny is stupid ,and for cry babies that cant stand how life is not fair.
Manifestly false.
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I can see the armchair Generals on country channel now:
ENY Alert. Anyone wanting to fly low ENY planes go to the tower now. Takeoff at 09:35.
what a great Idea!!
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Take a 3 week player put them in a spit 16 take Snail in a p40 who will win? So, its the player not the bird,this is a well known fact. And i stand by that eny is to keep crybabies at bay,or people would so be crying even more then "grown men" do. I stand by my remarks but I'm not here to slap fight cause i love you guys to much.Hiel HT!
But both the op's remarks where well thought out ty for giving me somthing to think about. :aok
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Take a 3 week player put them in a spit 16 take Snail in a p40 who will win? So, its the player not the bird,this is a well known fact.
You are taking the most extreme example...
If it's only about the player, I should easily get the same K/D in a P-40C that I'm getting in a Tempest, 109K or Ki-84 right? Or two seasoned players of identical skill level meeting in a P-40C and a Spit 16 will both have the same chances of killing each others?
Planes like P-40C, P-39, Spit I are only flown by the worst pilots of AH, while the P-51D, La-7 or SPit 16 are being flown by the very best pilots only, because their k/D is so incredibly much higher than the aforementioned ones?
In fact, it's both. Plane + Pilot. To think the plane performance would have nothing to do with sucess at all is ridiculous. Makes one wonder why air forces all over the world were always looking for a 'better' plane... ;)
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It is both. When I get shot down, it's the plane's fault. When I shoot someone else down, it's all leet skillz. ;)
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You are taking the most extreme example...
If it's only about the player, I should easily get the same K/D in a P-40C that I'm getting in a Tempest, 109K or Ki-84 right? Or two seasoned players of identical skill level meeting in a P-40C and a Spit 16 will both have the same chances of killing each others?
Planes like P-40C, P-39, Spit I are only flown by the worst pilots of AH, while the P-51D, La-7 or SPit 16 are being flown by the very best pilots only, because their k/D is so incredibly much higher than the aforementioned ones?
In fact, it's both. Plane + Pilot. To think the plane performance would have nothing to do with sucess at all is ridiculous. Makes one wonder why air forces all over the world were always looking for a 'better' plane... ;)
I have the complete opposite thinking from this. If we were to take a pilot who is best of the best, makes no mistakes, and make a clone of him so that we have two pilots with perfectly even skill levels, and we put 1 of them in an i-16 and the other in a P-51D, then my thinking is the fight would be a draw. Both pilots would be using their planes weaknesses against the others strengths. The i-16 pilot would use his better turning and maneuverability to avoid the P-51D while he used his better speed and climbing abilities to make BnZ attacks. The only way I see one of them winning is if one of them was flying a plane that has every single advantage in the book, and we do not have that kind of plane in-game.
The plane is just the tool we use, and our skills is what makes the difference. Someone who is a far more skilled fighter and used a blunt wooden club will be able to beat someone of less skill and uses the sharpest of swords.
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The P-51 would dictate the fight and make a zillion high speed passes at the I-16. Either cumulative damage or running out of gas would doom the I-16. The P-51 pilot wouldn't even need to be equal of the I-16 pilot for this to happen.
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I have the complete opposite thinking from this. If we were to take a pilot who is best of the best, makes no mistakes, and make a clone of him so that we have two pilots with perfectly even skill levels, and we put 1 of them in an i-16 and the other in a P-51D, then my thinking is the fight would be a draw
Only if both pilots are very inept. Put some sticks with some experience in it, and the Pony will absolute dominate the fight... unless you are going to introduce some arbitrary "dueling rules" to negate the Pony's advantages. The pony pilot can also leave the fight at any point.. the I-16 pilot can't.
Flying a plane with substantially lesser performace is a handicap.. a handicap that can, against lesser pilots, be overcome with skill and experience, but you can push things only so far.
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Yes, the P-51 could out last the i-16 until he ran out of gas, but I'm just talking about as long as both pilots could fight back. You can't really fight without fuel :D . If both planes had infinite fuel and ammo and the fight was only decided by one of them dying then I believe it was be a draw if both pilots were of perfectly equal skills. Planes are just our weapons which we choose to kill with. A rock can kill just as well as a 357 magnum.
This is just my thoughts on the matter of plane or pilot skills, and why I continue to try to sharpen my skills every day.
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Latrobe,
P-51D will use aggressive BnZ attacks to drain the E out of the I-16 and then kill it when it can't dodge anymore. There is nothing the skilled I-16 pilot can do to avoid that against a skilled P-51D pilot.
I have done this to many a slow, agile, poorly accelerating aircraft and at low altitudes my preferred mount is pretty parable to the P-51D for that kind of attack. The trick is to not give your opponent the time he needs to rebuild the E he lost dodging you.
It is even more lopsided when you make the planes the P-40C vs the Spitfire Mk XVI. Zeros have more of a fighting chance than the I-16, F4F or Brewster because they build E back a lot faster and blow less dodging.
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Yes, the P-51 could out last the i-16 until he ran out of gas, but I'm just talking about as long as both pilots could fight back.
P-51 will still totally dominate the fight as long as it's pilot has some minimum level of a clue. The I-16 pilot's only hope is the Pony will mess things up at some point, else he wont even get a guns solution.
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Latrobe you just coined a new expression "Don't take a rock to a.gun fight"
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Maybe it's just my mindset. I believe in no excuses. It's either you do it, or you don't. Whenever I die I don't make the excuse that "Oh, he was a P-51 and I was an i-16 so I didn't stand a chance." I died because he was more skilled than me. I look for the point where I made a mistake and fix it so next time I'm the more skilled pilot and I kill the P-51 in my i-16.
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Being reasonable has nothing to do with excuses. :old:
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Just because it can't be done, doesn't mean it can't be done. :old: ;)
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Just because it can't be done, doesn't mean it can't be done. :old: ;)
I have to go to my meditation chamber to think about that (http://www.pagan-spirit.de/wcf/images/smilies/Yoga.gif)
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Being reasonable has nothing to do with excuses. :old:
This.
Both aircraft flown to their maximum potential, physics dictates that the P-51D will win. That isn't an excuse, it is simply reality.
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This.
Both aircraft flown to their maximum potential, physics dictates that the P-51D will win. That isn't an excuse, it is simply reality.
I find great pleasure in finding ways to max it possible. I enjoy making the impossible possible. :)
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I think that it is time to re-think ENY. When it hits 20 or 25+ the game just stops being enjoyable. For example, it is frustrating when for example the Nits are low in numbers and "causing" the issue and as Bish you are going after Rocks (who might be somewhat close to your side in numbers).
Is there anyway to perhaps cause ENY to only apply to certain bases? For example, using the above, have ENY apply only to forward bases say within 2 or 3 sectors of Nits bases? (This might work better on certain maps - or perhaps different rule sets for different size maps?)
Just a thought...
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Latrobe,
P-51D will use aggressive BnZ attacks to drain the E out of the I-16 and then kill it when it can't dodge anymore. There is nothing the skilled I-16 pilot can do to avoid that against a skilled P-51D pilot.
I have done this to many a slow, agile, poorly accelerating aircraft and at low altitudes my preferred mount is pretty parable to the P-51D for that kind of attack. The trick is to not give your opponent the time he needs to rebuild the E he lost dodging you.
It is even more lopsided when you make the planes the P-40C vs the Spitfire Mk XVI. Zeros have more of a fighting chance than the I-16, F4F or Brewster because they build E back a lot faster and blow less dodging.
ehh well if someone is really good they can dodge AND get a quick gun solution on the 51...possibly a kill shot.
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ehh well if someone is really good they can dodge AND get a quick gun solution on the 51...possibly a kill shot.
Yes, that's what I meant to say, but didn't. :o
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ehh well if someone is really good they can dodge AND get a quick gun solution on the 51...possibly a kill shot.
The chances are still way better for the P-51 to kill the I-16. That a freak kill can occur doesn't make it a balanced setup.
As I said before, the I-16 has to hope for a screwup by the Pony. The performance envelope of the P-51 still makes it totally dominate the fight.
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I find great pleasure in finding ways to max it possible. I enjoy making the impossible possible. :)
This cannot be done. It is a nice, pat, feel good saying, but physics is a harsh mistress and she will have her way.
ehh well if someone is really good they can dodge AND get a quick gun solution on the 51...possibly a kill shot.
If the P-51 driver is good that won't happen. That scenario relies on the I-16 driver being better than the P-51 driver.
SysError,
Why does it cease to be fun?
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Well it doesn't make it balanced but it does change the odds some. But this is only if the I-16 pilot is better. If it's equal skilled guys the 51 will win all the time.
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Well it doesn't make it balanced but it does change the odds some. But this is only if the I-16 pilot is better. If it's equal skilled guys the 51 will win all the time.
Barring the no skill guys who only think to roll it on its side and turn as tight as they can to get on the other guy's six. The I-16 newb will beat the P-51 newb in that one. :p
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Imagine the C-47 had forward firing guns. You proponents of "it's the pilot not the plane" are saying with equal pilots the C-47 has an equal chance against a Spit XVI? I want some of whatever you guys are on.
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Imagine the C-47 had forward firing guns. You proponents of "it's the pilot not the plane" are saying with equal pilots the C-47 has an equal chance against a Spit XVI? I want some of whatever you guys are on.
It's just how I think. I never think anything is impossible. I think there is always a way to do anything.
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It's just how I think. I never think anything is impossible. I think there is always a way to do anything.
But that's a though totally different than "The plane doesn't make a difference" :old:
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It doesn't make a difference, to me. If I'm more skilled then I should win. That's the way to win. Now I just have to get skilled. ;)
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I have the complete opposite thinking from this. If we were to take a pilot who is best of the best, makes no mistakes, and make a clone of him so that we have two pilots with perfectly even skill levels, and we put 1 of them in an i-16 and the other in a P-51D, then my thinking is the fight would be a draw. Both pilots would be using their planes weaknesses against the others strengths. The i-16 pilot would use his better turning and maneuverability to avoid the P-51D while he used his better speed and climbing abilities to make BnZ attacks. The only way I see one of them winning is if one of them was flying a plane that has every single advantage in the book, and we do not have that kind of plane in-game.
The plane is just the tool we use, and our skills is what makes the difference. Someone who is a far more skilled fighter and used a blunt wooden club will be able to beat someone of less skill and uses the sharpest of swords.
Cmon Latrobe, that's like saying in a gun fight. the best "smooth bore, flintlock sniper" in history, has the remotest chance against the best 50 cal sniper in history.
A better way to put this is, If Latrobe was flying a P51 and he engaged Latrobe flying an I16, who would most likely win, everytime? If you say that it's a toss up cause both pilots have equal skill than I say you are being argumentative, not realistic.
It is easy for me to say when I played, I (flying a twit 16 or a K4) would destroy me (flying any JUG) most everytime!! And I was better in any JUG than I was in any spit or K4! :aok
JUGgler
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It doesn't make a difference, to me. If I'm more skilled then I should win. That's the way to win. Now I just have to get skilled. ;)
A slightly more skilled player in a P-40C will lose to the slightly less skilled player in the Spit XVI most of the time.
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I see the big issue here as this:
A limitation placed on fellow countrymen by selfish prima donnas who want war win perks and don't care how they affect others play.
Whatever reasons they state for doing this, it is still inconsiderate to others. PLEASE LOG OFF IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO ACTIVELY PLAY, ESPECIALLY IF YOU KNOW IT MAY AFFECT ENY!
If the numbers actually in battle are fairly even, shouldn't the active players have the same equipment set available to make the battles....fair?
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Cmon Latrobe, that's like saying in a gun fight. the best "smooth bore, flintlock sniper" in history, has the remotest chance against the best 50 cal sniper in history.
A better way to put this is, If Latrobe was flying a P51 and he engaged Latrobe flying an I16, who would most likely win, everytime? If you say that it's a toss up cause both pilots have equal skill than I say you are being argumentative, not realistic.
It is easy for me to say when I played, I (flying a twit 16 or a K4) would destroy me (flying any JUG) most everytime!! And I was better in any JUG than I was in any spit or K4! :aok
JUGgler
It's just how I see things. I really don't care if I'm in a P-40C up against 4 Spit16s and I'm miles from the nearest friendly. I'm not going to just give up and says it's a hopeless situation and surrender. I'm going to fight and find a way to win the fight because I believe that if the pilot is skilled enough then he can beat those 4 spit16s. It doesn't matter that he's in a P-40C against 4 Spit 16's, if he's good enough, knows enough about ACM, knows how to use his strengths against the spits weaknesses, then he can win. And, for anyone who says it's impossible to win if at least 1 of those spit 16 pilots is any good, then the P-40 pilot just has to be even better!
That's what I think and I practice every day to be that kind of a pilot.
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Its all about the pilot not the bird. Eny is stupid ,and for cry babies that cant stand how life is not fair.
nope. when I actually play I rank below around 200 and everybody knows I have no skill whatsoever. the skill that most high ranked pilots exhibit is at knowing how the scoring system works.
semp
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It's just how I see things. I really don't care if I'm in a P-40C up against 4 Spit16s and I'm miles from the nearest friendly. I'm not going to just give up and says it's a hopeless situation and surrender. I'm going to fight and find a way to win the fight because I believe that if the pilot is skilled enough then he can beat those 4 spit16s. It doesn't matter that he's in a P-40C against 4 Spit 16's, if he's good enough, knows enough about ACM, knows how to use his strengths against the spits weaknesses, then he can win. And, for anyone who says it's impossible to win if at least 1 of those spit 16 pilots is any good, then the P-40 pilot just has to be even better!
That's what I think and I practice every day to be that kind of a pilot.
Well this I know to be true, but please answer this--> Latrobe "A" is flying a K4 and Latrobe "B" is flying a P40C, they merge at 10K........ Who wins?
I know the answer, and so do you :aok
JUGgler
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Latrobe,
Nobody here is saying give up when you are facing a superior aircraft. I certainly don't, I love bagging an La-7 or Spitfire Mk XVI that had all the cards on me and still lost, but I am not about to mistake that outcome for the outcome between me in the La-7 or Spitfire Mk XVI against me in the Mosquito Mk VI.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light most definitely, but also acknowledge reality not as an excuse but as simple information.
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No matter who is wrong or right technically in this convo, i <3 Latrobe more ,his mindset is that of a true winner.
No matter the giant your up against, your rock and slingshot can take him down if you aim is true and you have skill and believe.
:banana:
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Anyway... I think I found the fix: switch to less tower-huger country. :banana: :banana: :banana:
Yayaya, call me traitor, at least I can enjoy the game better without ENY ruin my limited playtime.
Still... tower-huger problem need some kind of fix, either boot idle or make them less affecting the gameplay.