Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: JunkyII on October 15, 2013, 05:26:28 PM
-
So recently I have heard of people going to the DA and certain things being used for giving them a slight advantage in a co alt like plane fight. Like the ones in the DA between 23 and 24. The two things people have supposedly been doing is...
1. Climbing above the determined alt outside of visual range to build up more speed so you have that E advantage in the merge.
2. Dumping Ammo at takeoff down to enough rounds for that single kill....of course making your plane lighter in the fight.
Myself personally I don't do anything that isn't agreed upon by the duelers at the DA prior to flight, verbally and on film. I know BEs dueling bracket allowed for ammo dumping but in the normal informal duels I go strictly to merge alt and do not dump ammo unless agreed upon.
Do you guys do this whenever you guys go to the DA? I feel like it's kind of cheap if your not going to at least tell the person before hand so they can even up the fight.
Thoughts?
-
I would only go to the DA with squaddies or friends so this kind of thing was never an issue
If you head to the.DA for some kind of grudge match then it's not at all surprising that some folks might resort to underhand methods to protect their precious egos
-
Can't remember... I think the last time I went 'dueling' in the DA was 2007 :headscratch:
-
So recently I have heard of people going to the DA and certain things being used for giving them a slight advantage in a co alt like plane fight. Like the ones in the DA between 23 and 24. The two things people have supposedly been doing is...
1. Climbing above the determined alt outside of visual range to build up more speed so you have that E advantage in the merge.
I've had quite a few do this to me when I've gone to the DA. As far as I'm concerned, if they need to cheat in the duel to beat me or at least stay competitive with me then I've already won, regardless of the outcome of the fight.
2. Dumping Ammo at takeoff down to enough rounds for that single kill....of course making your plane lighter in the fight.
Let them dump their ammo, it is not going to be a deciding factor in a fight. It lets me know the guy I'm fighting is a total and complete unskilled 'tard.
Myself personally I don't do anything that isn't agreed upon by the duelers at the DA prior to flight, verbally and on film. I know BEs dueling bracket allowed for ammo dumping but in the normal informal duels I go strictly to merge alt and do not dump ammo unless agreed upon.
Do you guys do this whenever you guys go to the DA? I feel like it's kind of cheap if your not going to at least tell the person before hand so they can even up the fight.
Thoughts?
I do the same, I use the old school DA rules...same plane, 25% fuel, full ammo load out, 8k merge alt limit and no firing on first merge (cold merge).
ack-ack
-
I get alot of folks that agree on a certain plane and show up in a perk ride... i wish i had your problem :D
-
I've had quite a few do this to me when I've gone to the DA. As far as I'm concerned, if they need to cheat in the duel to beat me or at least stay competitive with me then I've already won, regardless of the outcome of the fight.
Let them dump their ammo, it is not going to be a deciding factor in a fight. It lets me know the guy I'm fighting is a total and complete unskilled 'tard.
I do the same, I use the old school DA rules...same plane, 25% fuel, full ammo load out, 8k merge alt limit and no firing on first merge (cold merge).
ack-ack
+1
-
First of all I duel guys solely to learn something and I stay away from those wannabe hotshots with the egos that think they have something to prove. Those types is where you'll find this kind of thing. And I never duel when or if I'm mad or with someone I don't like. Another thing is I pretty much only duel guys I know that are better than me as I can't learn better ACM if I'm already better than my opponent. So I go into every duel expecting to lose anyway. I've only run across one guy I knew was cheating during our duel, but I felt pretty good about it knowing he thought I was enough threat to his ego to stack the deck against me. The film of the fights and the different angles, throttle work, when the flaps were deployed etc. etc. is what's important to me....not the win.
:lol @ Lazerr
-
I have to admit, I have always accepted dumping unwanted ammunition, as with BE tourney, that ammo dumping is at the pilot's discretion.
Reason being that should the pilot run out of ammo, it's his own problem.
But if stated otherwise I would certainly abide by any rules placed.
But it's very interesting to read this. Surfinn created a thread entitled "Thank you Dolby" Which started like this;
Those dirty under handed tricks you taught me in our duel worked well when I employed the same against Junky yesterday.
Emptying all ammo but what was needed to shot the one ac down gave me the slight edge I needed to keep E and always have the uper hand on him. Climbing a 1000 ft above the agreed alt merge and diving in right before he got into Icon range gave me the merge advantage.
When asked by Junky how I was keeping my e so well I told him I was cheating Dolby style :rofl
Thank you Dolby :t
I particularly take exception to his accusation that I, out of icon range, was climbing to gain an advantage.
I especially take exception to posting his bile to a squad I have just joined, in a feeble attempt to undermine my ability and credibility within their ranks.
I have never, outside of a few feet and a lapse in concentration, exceeded an agreed altitude in a duel.
I have infact been a victim of this however, by Surfinn himself, another time by a rather high flyer who said I would never beat him co-alt-co-E and I am glad they both lost the rounds where there was no funny business.
I have always prided myself in fairness co-E-co-alt, and never taught Surfinn anything dirty or underhanded.
Alts caps are a gentlemen's agreement to be adhered to.
Any Junky I'm sure you are pleased to read Surfinn's confession as much as I am outing him for the dirty underhanded dueller he has turned out.
I'm sure though that you must have had your suspicions prior to posting this thread.
-
I get alot of folks that agree on a certain plane and show up in a perk ride... i wish i had your problem :D
A few years ago someone challenged me to the DA and after beating him a few times in various planes, I let him pick the next planes for our last fight. He picked Dr.Is, so I upped one and proceed to fly off to merge with the other guy and he comes screaming at me in a P-38L, trying to HO me and collided with me instead.
ack-ack
-
I have had people dump ammo before but never climb over the stated alt. If you win by cheating have you really won?
-
Dolby,
I had a little bit of suspicion as to where he get so much E on me. We were flying FM2s, a plane I'm not too familiar with but with most planes I can say I can hide/ gain E on someone in a fight pretty darn well....I wasn't seeing that sort of flying with him.
They were good fights and I'd do them again I just personally like to know the rules before the game starts....not while or after the games over.I'll have to check the film to see if you can tell the alt in it prior to vis to investigate.
Dolby, I fought you here and there and I can definitely say you don't need those advantages to win a fight....so he must have misunderstood you speaking on possibly the same rumors mentioned in the OP. I have seen them a lot recently as a reason people don't like to duel. I've learned too much ACM from them not to let them die off because some people tale advantage of the system.
In the end it's the fight that matters win or lose......but surfinn... you and I might need a rematch to put you in your placr :devil
-
Quote from Dolby <snip> I especially take exception to posting his bile to a squad I have just joined, in a feeble attempt to undermine my ability and credibility within their ranks.
I've flown against you and around you for quite sometime Dolby and your ability and credibility has never been in question with me. I don't know if Surfinn was making a joke or has an axe to grind with you, but if it's the latter I hope you won't hold that against the rest of the squad. We're glad you joined us and would like to keep ya around because of that ability and credibility you have.
-
Quite simply; if you beat 'im you're cheatin'.
-
In the bracket tournament the only reason I allow ammo dumping is because there is no way to verify that it hasn't been done. At least if everyone has the same option then the playing field is level.
The requirement to film from take-off and keep those films until the bracket's updated takes care of the alt for E cheat but admittedly someone would have to be called out on it for it to be investigated in the early rounds.
I do neither in the bracket or in the DA in general.
-
These things should only be allowed if explicitly stated by agreement. That being said....I've never cared personally if someone does or not. I've been known to drift slightly over the agreed alt (say 500 ft tops) by mistake but do my best to dump the minor E advantage.
-
EAce :banana:
-
I have to admit, I have always accepted dumping unwanted ammunition, as with BE tourney, that ammo dumping is at the pilot's discretion.
Reason being that should the pilot run out of ammo, it's his own problem.
But if stated otherwise I would certainly abide by any rules placed.
But it's very interesting to read this. Surfinn created a thread entitled "Thank you Dolby" Which started like this;
I particularly take exception to his accusation that I, out of icon range, was climbing to gain an advantage.
I especially take exception to posting his bile to a squad I have just joined, in a feeble attempt to undermine my ability and credibility within their ranks.
I have never, outside of a few feet and a lapse in concentration, exceeded an agreed altitude in a duel.
I have infact been a victim of this however, by Surfinn himself, another time by a rather high flyer who said I would never beat him co-alt-co-E and I am glad they both lost the rounds where there was no funny business.
I have always prided myself in fairness co-E-co-alt, and never taught Surfinn anything dirty or underhanded.
Alts caps are a gentlemen's agreement to be adhered to.
Any Junky I'm sure you are pleased to read Surfinn's confession as much as I am outing him for the dirty underhanded dueller he has turned out.
I'm sure though that you must have had your suspicions prior to posting this thread.
I would like to say that I have flown against Dolby in the DA many times in the past and he has always abided by the agreed rules..... :old:
-
Me and Fulcrum dueled once and he came in at 13 feet above agreed merge alt. The cheating sidewinder will pay for that when I catch him! :furious
-
Everyone goes over a hair here and there.....How high are people going over for this advantage on say a 4K merge....6k 7?
-
How high are people going over for this advantage on say a 4K merge....6k 7?
Depends on how high the other person feels he needs to be to gain the energy advantage. In a duel against asbatt, he came in at 15k+ when we agreed to the merge alt being 8k.
ack-ack
-
:lol ya reckon he was skeered?
-
:salute
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,355134.0.html
-
Dolby's too good to have to cheat.
-
anyone else hear Dolby toking on a doobie in that film? :lol
-
Dolby is more of an Earl Grey man than a 420 blaze it dudebro :old:
-
Me and Fulcrum dueled once and he came in at 13 feet above agreed merge alt. The cheating sidewinder will pay for that when I catch him! :furious
It was only 12 feet, ya cheatin' bastage....I saw you dump all your ammo except the two bullets you used to kill me. You also went out and got the "dump fuel" hack to take yourself down to 10 gals of fuel!
-
HA! My gunnery is so bad I usually have to rearm during a duel. :(
-
Dolby is more of an Earl Grey man than a 420 blaze it dudebro :old:
Earl Grey is for girls, I drink Tetley!
and what the fudge is 420 blaze?
-
Everyone goes over a hair here and there.....How high are people going over for this advantage on say a 4K merge....6k 7?
You worry about the wrong things. Ammo load wont make a difference and a few extra mph you can deal with. Its the F3 mode that sucks assuming it is still on in the DA. Another future no one asked for but it was important to add lol
-
It was only 12 feet, ya cheatin' bastage....I saw you dump all your ammo except the two bullets you used to kill me. You also went out and got the "dump fuel" hack to take yourself down to 10 gals of fuel!
pretty boys always gotta win :eek:.
semp
-
I agree with Ded, ammo dumping makes not much difference, I like to keep my ammo because if I win I will have to keep fighting till I run out of fuel. Anyone who feels the need to use F3 mode or to gain extra E and dive in before icon range is only cheating themself.
No one who duels regularly really cares if they win or lose as long as they gave a good showing of themself and had a good fight.
There is only one person who gains respect for you when you win, that is you gain respect for yourself. If you had to cheat, there is no self respect to be gained.
-
No one who duels regularly really cares if they win or lose as long as they gave a good showing of themself and had a good fight.
Nicely stated.
- oldman
-
I do none of those Junky. Sometimes I start talking on vox and go auto limb and end up at 4k but try to get back down throttle off well in advance of the merge.
The other night Ded and I were going at it and I repeatedly got to talking to him vox and always ended up with a bit more alt than he did and I still died.
I was warned years ago by Dodger about these very things so naturally I could tell it wasn't acceptable. Crafty, but cheating.
EDIT: gramps said we do it wrong anyway. Aerial gunnery (40's ACM sometimes term) merges began canopy to canopy in a knife edge pass. This eliminated the advantages. He was an instructor pilot at Luke Field, AZ 42-43. I can't imagine he'd make that up but Bald Eagles bracket would certainly be interesting if that were the merge rule.
And Surfinn decided to vulch bases two Canyon fights ago...he got pwnt with several alt advantages, lmao
-
DA is for the F3 mode heroes.
-
You worry about the wrong things. Ammo load wont make a difference and a few extra mph you can deal with. Its the F3 mode that sucks assuming it is still on in the DA. Another future no one asked for but it was important to add lol
It does make a difference if the opponents are around the same skill level, anyone who has performed turn radius testing will tell you weight affects the turn performance, I think dumping all your BBs or whatever is really bad form, the most I would accept is testing which guns that are mapped, but not emptying mgs.
-
A few years ago someone challenged me to the DA and after beating him a few times in various planes, I let him pick the next planes for our last fight. He picked Dr.Is, so I upped one and proceed to fly off to merge with the other guy and he comes screaming at me in a P-38L, trying to HO me and collided with me instead.
ack-ack
Midwife by any chance?
-
It does make a difference if the opponents are around the same skill level, anyone who has performed turn radius testing will tell you weight affects the turn performance, I think dumping all your BBs or whatever is really bad form, the most I would accept is testing which guns that are mapped, but not emptying mgs.
It gave him enough E advantage to pretty much BnZ which was when I started having my suspicions.....now maybe the ammo dumping didn't effect it AS MUCH as the extra alt but it sure did seem like I had 100% fuel to his 25%.....
-
Midwife by any chance?
kingcobradude or something like that. Midway was another funny one, had him calling me a cheat because I shot his fuel tank which caused him to run out of fuel mid-fight and he had no clue he was leaking fuel.
ack-ack
-
It gave him enough E advantage to pretty much BnZ which was when I started having my suspicions.....now maybe the ammo dumping didn't effect it AS MUCH as the extra alt but it sure did seem like I had 100% fuel to his 25%.....
His ammo load was probably not even a factor, but any energy advantage one can get over the other guy will be a deciding factor in the fight.
ack-ack
-
Challenge them to a duel but in the MA. Pick two fields with no action at them (fairly easy to find at any time of day) and put your ego and score at risk! :D
-
Challenge them to a duel but in the MA. Pick two fields with no action at them (fairly easy to find at any time of day) and put your ego and score at risk! :D
If you can do it in the MA, you can do it better in the DA. No chance of interruption or distraction. F3 sucks but can be outflown
-
If you can do it in the MA, you can do it better in the DA. No chance of interruption or distraction. F3 sucks but can be outflown
The point I was making was to get them to put their precious MA ranking at risk as well as their ego. ;)
-
The point I was making was to get them to put their precious MA ranking at risk as well as their ego. ;)
Agree, but the resulting dar bar tends to attract others who may interfere with the "duel" even if they are warned off. But I guess that's part of the ranking at risk theory you are proposing so :aok
On a side note....I wish HTC would eliminate F3 from DA. Not sure what purpose it serves or was intended to serve. *shrug*
-
Challenge them to a duel but in the MA. Pick two fields with no action at them (fairly easy to find at any time of day) and put your ego and score at risk! :D
:aok
-
pretty boys always gotta Win :eek:.
semp
:lol But I didn't! OldNo7 won cleanly...tho I think I gave a decent account of myself. I always try to give a decent fight and come away from the match with something new to think about....I rarely care about who wins or not.
P.S. I'm glad you still think I'm pretty, semp. ;)
-
The point I was making was to get them to put their precious MA ranking at risk as well as their ego. ;)
Ahhh....my bad. Misunderstood :salute
-
The only one I've done is climbing above agreed on alt on the way to the fight. You're on autoclimb, you get chatting, suddenly you're 1k above merge alt. Vox just generally gets an 'Oh crap, I'm above 5k!' or whatever and I immediately descend and throttle back so I'm not above the vehicle's speed. Doing that stuff intentionally to gain advantage is just cheesy IMO.
What I don't think is cheesy is maneuvering before the merge. IMO the fight is on as soon as you're within icon other than guns cold on the first merge. I've seen guys that felt the first pass should be level flight, no maneuvering until you pass the 3-9 line.
Wiley.
-
The only one I've done is climbing above agreed on alt on the way to the fight. You're on autoclimb, you get chatting, suddenly you're 1k above merge alt. Vox just generally gets an 'Oh crap, I'm above 5k!' or whatever and I immediately descend and throttle back so I'm not above the vehicle's speed. Doing that stuff intentionally to gain advantage is just cheesy IMO.
What I don't think is cheesy is maneuvering before the merge. IMO the fight is on as soon as you're within icon other than guns cold on the first merge. I've seen guys that felt the first pass should be level flight, no maneuvering until you pass the 3-9 line.
Wiley.
Icon range planes released to do whatever be it dive in turn off for angle or what not....
The accidentally going over merge alt isn't a big deal.
-
So recently I have heard of people going to the DA and certain things being used for giving them a slight advantage in a co alt like plane fight. Like the ones in the DA between 23 and 24. The two things people have supposedly been doing is...
1. Climbing above the determined alt outside of visual range to build up more speed so you have that E advantage in the merge. LAME!
2. Dumping Ammo at takeoff down to enough rounds for that single kill....of course making your plane lighter in the fight.doesnt bother me really
Myself personally I don't do anything that isn't agreed upon by the duelers at the DA prior to flight, verbally and on film. I know BEs dueling bracket allowed for ammo dumping but in the normal informal duels I go strictly to merge alt and do not dump ammo unless agreed upon.
Do you guys do this whenever you guys go to the DA? I feel like it's kind of cheap if your not going to at least tell the person before hand so they can even up the fight.
Thoughts?
-
Spit V, 25%, cold merge, deck. Anything else is just fooling around :D
-
Depends on how high the other person feels he needs to be to gain the energy advantage. In a duel against asbatt, he came in at 15k+ when we agreed to the merge alt being 8k.
ack-ack
Wasnt asbatt the guy who was always drunk? I hope he got help.
-
Spit V, 25%, cold merge, deck. Anything else is just fooling around :D
Hey cro good to see you about man
-
just merge on the deck or set alt cap to meet. same planes with 25% fuel and same ammo load out.
there will be no HOing on any part of the fight.
anything goes upon that.
sometimes it is quite obvious if someone merges and they are going 60 knots faster than you. I can normally tell.
Where is the old DA when ya need it? Nowadays there is just no honor for 1 on 1 fights like there use to be. Hell I learned most of my ACM from constantly fighting Skyrock, Dedalos, and Bighorn. You just don't see much enthusiasm with new guys and wanting to learn how to really fight anymore.
EDIT: and don't forget batfink either
-
Can't remember... I think the last time I went 'dueling' in the DA was 2007 :headscratch:
me too :aok
-
Hey cro good to see you about man
Hi bat, yeah, we dueled a few weeks back in DA I think, I fly under the nick "gull" now (technically, my sub expired as we speak, but will resub it this week again).
-
If such a small advantage by another player frightens you, you shouldn't be in the DA... or even in a fighter plane in the first place. Just sayin'.
-
This guy....
Whaddup Krupski
-
If such a small advantage by another player frightens you, you shouldn't be in the DA... or even in a fighter plane in the first place. Just sayin'.
I ain't fraid of of no Krupizzle. :bolt: Wazzzzupp Krup! :D
-
Had some great fights with Krupinski, out turning anything I brought in a wheels down Corsair :cry
There are a few guys who will give you a proper stand up fight, Batfink, Krup, Copprhed, Shida to name but a few. :salute
Many guys who used to be an entertaining scrap have changed their tactics with the influx of score centric players. Maxous for example would always be a great fight, now for whatever reason he will, ho and pick and happilly clear your 12 o'clock if on your side. :bhead
-
I had a few fights with batfink and surfinn a week or so back. From my films surfinn always stuck to alt cap, didn't HO and we had some real good fights with him winning most of them.
Im by no means a good dueller but considered these fights to be amongst some the best ive had hes bloody good in that FM2 and our i16 vs emil fight lasted six and a half minutes before he augered just as he had me.
EatG
-
I dont do the DA
But this business of dumping ammo I think is more psychological then actual. I've been here now what? 12 years And in all that time I have never noticed a difference in flight characteristics regardless of if I dumped ammo or not. At one time several years ago I believe I was one of the top ranked 110 pilots and I have only dumped rear ammo on that once or twice out of sheer curiosity and never noticed any difference in how well the plane handled. It may have some effect. But I believe that effect in reality in game to be negligible at best.
-
His ammo load was probably not even a factor, but any energy advantage one can get over the other guy will be a deciding factor in the fight.
ack-ack
This. One of the tricks I use regularly is to come in at angles that will encourage an opponent to bleed E trying to follow me while I am improving my E rate.
-
All the true masters of the 1 on 1 fight know that the very best way to win is to be slightly slower than your opponent
-
All the true masters of the 1 on 1 fight know that the very best way to win is to be slightly slower than your opponent
I think it was Sunsfan or Grizz who told me sometimes you have to give a shot to get a shot....ACM is so confusing sometimes :furious
-
I find most of the big mouths in the game fly only one or two plane that they know very well and they will duel you, if they win 1 they run off blabbing away thinking they are all that. These people are usually are the ones that grab alt to dive to deck on deck merge fight looking for every advantage they can get. Why because they need it because of there skill level.
If you want to find good fights and get respect from both pilot and not there ego BS challenge them this.
Do 12 fights total 3 fights in same plane 4 different planes loser picks next plane.
Cold 1st pass deck merge or alt that both pick and no extending beyond 2k icon range for the guys that want to turn a duel into a B and Z MA fight.
I find that lame donut big mouths will not do this or will start out picking there best plane and if they win the 1st one or two they leave.
Sorry for they guys that i duel with a lot this wasn't for you and as you guys all know its all about the fight not the kill :salute
For anyone that would like to fight with these rules PM me, it will be fun.
-
I find most of the big mouths in the game fly only one or two plane that they know very well and they will duel you, if they win 1 they run off blabbing away thinking they are all that. These people are usually are the ones that grab alt to dive to deck on deck merge fight looking for every advantage they can get. Why because they need it because of there skill level.
If you want to find good fights and get respect from both pilot and not there ego BS challenge them this.
Do 12 fights total 3 fights in same plane 4 different planes loser picks next plane.
Cold 1st pass deck merge or alt that both pick and no extending beyond 2k icon range for the guys that want to turn a duel into a B and Z MA fight.
I find that lame donut big mouths will not do this or will start out picking there best plane and if they win the 1st one or two they leave.
Sorry for they guys that i duel with that a lot this wasn't for you and as you guys all know its all about the fight not the kill :salute
For anyone that would like to fight with these rules PM me, it will be fun.
This is a pretty good idea. I don't mind flying planes I'm not good in (which is pretty much all of them) but this also gives the loser a chance to pull the other into a ride they are not super comfortable in. It also lets the alts vary. I admit I'm not the best at deck merges and find them boring / unrealistic (if anything can be realistic in a cartoon airplane game). I like 5 to 8K merges because it gives more options...but these rules would let you vary things up.
Would a long duel tho' :D
-
Best fights I have had were when both pilots don't fly the plane they are dueling in.
I remember some serious C202 fights in the DA...you will never catch me in that crap in the MA
-
Best fights I have had were when both pilots don't fly the plane they are dueling in.
I remember some serious C202 fights in the DA...you will never catch me in that crap in the MA
That's because only the real men like Batfink, Changeup, and Dodger fly 202s in the MA....they are perk-farming hanger queens. :neener:
-
I don't like to go to the DA, if they want to fight me 1v1 then we can arrange a meeting in the MA. Case in point, last night ImSHRAP wanted to duel me. He agreed to meet between two bases, no defined altitude or specific plane. I was flying my 109F4, I was at 12K. He arrived in a 51D and was flying around 20K. No big deal, we never set an alt cap for the first merge. He ran, and ran, and ran, and ran, dove to the deck and ran as fast as he could. Then he starts running his mouth on Ch.200 on why I wouldn't chase him. I called it a forfeit, and he logged off.
Second set, I happen to find Tracers in his Mossie around 15K. We had a great fight and even arranged to meet again and had another great fight. If you want to duel me, find me in the MA. There is no need to go to the DA to prove that you have a larger johnson than everyone else. :devil :noid
-
I don't like to go to the DA, if they want to fight me 1v1 then we can arrange a meeting in the MA. Case in point, last night ImSHRAP wanted to duel me. He agreed to meet between two bases, no defined altitude or specific plane. I was flying my 109F4, I was at 12K. He arrived in a 51D and was flying around 20K. No big deal, we never set an alt cap for the first merge. He ran, and ran, and ran, and ran, dove to the deck and ran as fast as he could. Then he starts running his mouth on Ch.200 on why I wouldn't chase him. I called it a forfeit, and he logged off.
Second set, I happen to find Tracers in his Mossie around 15K. We had a great fight and even arranged to meet again and had another great fight. If you want to duel me, find me in the MA. There is no need to go to the DA to prove that you have a larger johnson than everyone else. :devil :noid
what difference does it make to you in going to the DA to fight other than saving time and eliminating interuption?
-
what difference does it make to you in going to the DA to fight other than saving time and eliminating interuption?
Lack of excuses?
-
Lack of excuses?
:rofl
-
Why do you have to go to the DA? Are people incapable of having 1v1 dogfights in the main arena? I will concede that during the East coast prime time it might be hard, but at 4am EST there is little interruption, and most are lucky to find any dogfight on the map.
-
Why do you have to go to the DA? Are people incapable of having 1v1 dogfights in the main arena? I will concede that during the East coast prime time it might be hard, but at 4am EST there is little interruption, and most are lucky to find any dogfight on the map.
Well, it is called the Dueling Arena and you can set up the parameters in the fight. Plane, fuel, altitude, etc. If you doubt your ability pilot vs pilot, the MA is where you should be.
-
Why do you have to go to the DA? Are people incapable of having 1v1 dogfights in the main arena? I will concede that during the East coast prime time it might be hard, but at 4am EST there is little interruption, and most are lucky to find any dogfight on the map.
I have had people who agreed to a 1v1 in the MA run a sector back to their ack after blowing the fight two turns in, and like last night with your Pony friend I have had 5k merges turn into 25k merges.
It also helps that I can throw people out of the private fields if they show up uninvited.
And some guys are just terrified of having their score ruined, so hopefully if I can drag them to the DA they'll actually give me a good fight.
-
On the issue of dumping ammo before the duel. If it makes no difference and provides no advantage like you guys are saying, then why do it? You all know damned good and well it lightens the plane up. Just like fighting with a DT and not.
-
I like the MA duels a lot for the simple reason you never know what to expect, except your opponent will try for every advantage possible. Winning a fight from a clear disadvantage is way more rewarding than winning one on equal terms IMO.
-
Why do you have to go to the DA? Are people incapable of having 1v1 dogfights in the main arena? I will concede that during the East coast prime time it might be hard, but at 4am EST there is little interruption, and most are lucky to find any dogfight on the map.
The question is; why not go?
-
DA because the bases are in 1 sector and i can get more fights in less time, also you can pick bases at different alt's without climbing. Saves time more fights that's why its called the DA= Dueling arena :x if you didn't know what DA was, it's that simple.
-
On the issue of dumping ammo before the duel. If it makes no difference and provides no advantage like you guys are saying, then why do it? You all know damned good and well it lightens the plane up. Just like fighting with a DT and not.
Fighting with the DT or not would add aerodynamic drag into the fight, the comparison is not the same.
-
Fighting with the DT or not would add aerodynamic drag into the fight, the comparison is not the same.
Okay I'll buy that, but that still doesn't answer my question.
-
If such a small advantage by another player frightens you, you shouldn't be in the DA... or even in a fighter plane in the first place. Just sayin'.
The same could be said to the guy dumping the ammo too. A small advantage it may be but it's still an advantage. These things are supposed to be even and fair. This kind of acceptance to bending the rules makes me wonder what other "tweeks" the top duelers are willing to do to win a duel.
Some of you guys will sit here and talk about a fair fight and all the while you're dumping weight :rofl Why don't you just slap some bricks on my arse while you're at it so you can "pwn" even quicker. :rolleyes:
-
You could argue that one pilot WEPing more than the other or sat on the runway for longer waiting on the other guy to set up his convergence or whatever, using more fuel i.e. less weight, will also decide a fight.
You forget one factor also, gunnery. The guy ditching ammo is adding risk, if he expends his ammo during a fight... Embarrassing or humiliating, pick one, there is no up side.
-
The same could be said to the guy dumping the ammo too. A small advantage it may be but it's still an advantage. These things are supposed to be even and fair. This kind of acceptance to bending the rules makes me wonder what other "tweaks" the top duelers are willing to do to win a duel.
Some of you guys will sit here and talk about a fair fight and all the while you're dumping weight :rofl Why don't you just slap some bricks on my arse while you're at it so you can "pwn" even quicker. :rolleyes:
The experienced duelers don't dump ammo because it makes so little difference. I agree with you that the 'tweaks' some of the new dueling pups use to gain what they think is an advantage are poor sportsmanship. The people saying that it makes no difference are saying that there is no point doing it, not that they should be allowed to do it.
You can always tell when someone has dumped all their ammo because they replane every fight. It's dweeby and illy to do so.
-
Generally speaking Duellers follow;
The Challenged has choice of the first plane, loser of the round to pick next plane and so on. Cold first merge.
Fuel will be 25%, guns, ammo loadout personal choice, no restrictions on dumping ammo unless mutually agreed upon.
ALT cap, is agreed upon by both. Neither will extend beyond 2.5k icon range from their opponent and F3 mode is out of the question.
-
[quote author=mechanic link=topic=355125.msg4706125#msg4706125 date=
You can always tell when someone has dumped all their ammo because they replane every fight. It's dweeby and illy to do so.
[/quote]
The guy towered has to go from 0mph on the deck, climb up to the agreed alt if any, accelerate to duelling speed, and then hope to match the E of the chap still inflight from the last round.
It could be argued that it's "illy" and dweeby to stack the Energy in your favour not replaning.
-
Generally speaking Duellers follow;
The Challenged has choice of the first plane, loser of the round to pick next plane and so on. Cold first merge.
Fuel will be 25%, guns, ammo loadout personal choice, no restrictions on dumping ammo unless mutually agreed upon.
ALT cap, is agreed upon by both. Neither will extend beyond 2.5k icon range from their opponent and F3 mode is out of the question.
These are good solid rules I think. :aok
-
These are good solid rules I think. :aok
Standard dueling rules. The question is, who follows them and who doesn't?
-
The experienced duelers don't dump ammo because it makes so little difference. I agree with you that the 'tweaks' some of the new dueling pups use to gain what they think is an advantage are poor sportsmanship. The people saying that it makes no difference are saying that there is no point doing it, not that they should be allowed to do it.
You can always tell when someone has dumped all their ammo because they replane every fight. It's dweeby and illy to do so.
I always bail out if I win because of the fuel weight issue. The idea of dumping ammo has honestly never occurred to me until this thread. I just take for granted my foe has the exact same setup as me, so I bail to keep it that way. As far as dumping ammo is concerned and you stating it makes little or no difference in the outcome of a duel, I'll have to take your word on that. I haven't the experience you have, and haven't tested the theory myself. Although it's makes common sense to me that a weight advantage can decide the outcome if pilots were equal in skill. Sometimes it's only a matter of being able to drop a wing at the right time to decide a fight. :salute
-
[quote author=mechanic link=topic=355125.msg4706125#msg4706125 date=
You can always tell when someone has dumped all their ammo because they replane every fight. It's dweeby and illy to do so.
The guy towered has to go from 0mph on the deck, climb up to the agreed alt if any, accelerate to duelling speed, and then hope to match the E of the chap still inflight from the last round.
It could be argued that it's "silly" and dweeby to stack the Energy in your favour not replaning.
You're taking the practice of dueling too seriously, pup. By the time you've arranged all your rules and regulations and done what it takes to meet them, Dedalos and I have had 5 fun fights.
I always bail out if I win because of the fuel weight issue. The idea of dumping ammo has honestly never occurred to me until this thread. I just take for granted my foe has the exact same setup as me, so I bail to keep it that way. As far as dumping ammo is concerned and you stating it makes little or no difference in the outcome of a duel, I'll have to take your word on that. I haven't the experience you have, and haven't tested the theory myself. Although it's makes common sense to me that a weight advantage can decide the outcome if pilots were equal in skill. Sometimes it's only a matter of being able to drop a wing at the right time to decide a fight. :salute
The people I usually duel with don't take the fight that seriously so that a few hundred lbs of fuel here or there matters. Sure, it might just make the difference in rare circumstances, but so what? You replane and fight again. Why replane and spend another few minutes crossing the sector when the winner can hang around and you both get to fight almost instantly?
We will duel in same planes, different planes, same fuel, dierent fuel, same gun pack, different gunpack, same alt, different alt..... this keeps it interesting, a good duel is not governed by rules and regulations, it is governed by both party's sense of sportsmanship and both's desire to give and receive a good fight.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The true beauty of dueling is something that has been inside humans for thouands of years. The unspoken agreement that both will enter combat but only one will emerge on the other side. It is a primal bond between two humans when they enter such a combat no matter if they use sticks, rocks, swords, six shooters or a virtual life. Two go in, none other can interfere, one comes out.
The ma is not like that, there is always a chance for faceless exit from the combat. That is why some are reluctant to go to the DA, because they are scared to engage in something that they then must see through to the very finite ending. Real men at some point must put all their chips in the pot, place their cards face up and await the flop. That is not bravado, it is simply a beautiful shared experience that risks everything. A very personal experience to those two souls locked in mortal combat. And one of the greatest adrenalin rushes available to man.
To hide from that natural, primal, shared mortal gamble in a virtual world is beyond pointless
-
You're taking the practice of dueling too seriously, pup. By the time you've arranged all your rules and regulations and done what it takes to meet them, Dedalos and I have had 5 fun fights.
The people I usually duel with don't take the fight that seriously so that a few hundred lbs of fuel here or there matters. Sure, it might just make the difference in rare circumstances, but so what? You replane and fight again. Why replane and spend another few minutes crossing the sector when the winner can hang around and you both get to fight almost instantly?
We will duel in same planes, different planes, same fuel, dierent fuel, same gun pack, different gunpack, same alt, different alt..... this keeps it interesting, a good duel is not governed by rules and regulations, it is governed by both party's sense of sportsmanship and both's desire to give and receive a good fight.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The true beauty of dueling is something that has been inside humans for thouands of years. The unspoken agreement that both will enter combat but only one will emerge on the other side. It is a primal bond between two humans when they enter such a combat no matter if they use sticks, rocks, swords, six shooters or a virtual life. Two go in, none other can interfere, one comes out.
The ma is not like that, there is always a chance for faceless exit from the combat. That is why some are reluctant to go to the DA, because they are scared to engage in something that they then must see through to the very finite ending. Real men at some point must put all their chips in the pot, place their cards face up and await the flop. That is not bravado, it is simply a beautiful shared experience that risks everything. A very personal experience to those two souls locked in mortal combat. And one of the greatest adrenalin rushes available to man.
To hide from that natural, primal, shared mortal gamble in a virtual world is beyond pointless
This is excellent! :salute
-
If someone in the DA has to go to the extreme to have the upper hand as described. The person just cheats themselves. They cheat themselves out of the fun and learning the DA can provide.
-
stop Bat you'll make me shed a tear! :ahand
-
I like the way Batty thinks :)
-
You're taking the practice of dueling too seriously, pup. By the time you've arranged all your rules and regulations and done what it takes to meet them, Dedalos and I have had 5 fun fights.
Practising is completely different, and you didn't mention that. Perhaps if you had been more clear. :old:
I practise with coppr, f77 and others, we fight in the same manner you describe, but with friends, those rules are still followed, they just don't have to be mentioned. It doesn't matter about replaning when in those practises.
-
Practising is completely different, and you didn't mention that. Perhaps if you had been more clear. :old:
I practise with coppr, f77 and others, we fight in the same manner you describe, but with friends, those rules are still followed, they just don't have to be mentioned. It doesn't matter about replaning when in those practises.
Yes you and bat are right when it comes to friends and Squadie's but most of you posting have the respect for others and no how to duel.
-
Practising is completely different, and you didn't mention that. Perhaps if you had been more clear. :old:
I practise with coppr, f77 and others, we fight in the same manner you describe, but with friends, those rules are still followed, they just don't have to be mentioned. It doesn't matter about replaning when in those practises.
What were you talking about then? Official dueling tourneys? I would have thought it was obvious that we were not talking about competition, as competition duels make up less than 1% of what duelers do in the DA. If you were talking about official competition dueling I would observe that you did not mention that yourself as Junky's original post was about dueling between fields 23-24, not competitions.
-
bat, I follow those general rules at all times with people I don't practice with or friends.
This would include; a ch200 callout, a person I have never duelled,
a person who will be pursuing the kill more than the fight, a person who's not necessarily sporting,
a person who's duelling for not necessarily clean motives.
I generally consider it the most sporting way to duel.
The Challenged has choice of the first plane, loser of the round to pick next plane and so on. Cold first merge.
Fuel will be 25%, guns, ammo loadout personal choice, no restrictions on dumping ammo unless mutually agreed upon.
ALT cap, is agreed upon by both. Neither will extend beyond 2.5k icon range from their opponent and F3 mode is out of the question.
I should have certainly mentioned above about replaning to ensure equal E at the merge.
I even announce "Ready?", "Yes" "ok Rolling", to ensure we roll at the same time.
-
I think I see where you are coming from, so perhaps there is something to be said in the ceremony for 'the fight' in that situation, if it takes nothing away from your enjoyment or even adds to it then it cannot be a bad thing.
-
This kind of acceptance to bending the rules makes me wonder what other "twerks" the top duelers are willing to do to win a duel.
fixed.... :noid :rofl
-
On the E thing, I think in a duels you just want to make sure that the E difference is not huge. I actually want you to be faster than me so can position better. So, a lot of times I will cut throttle. So now, you is cheating? The fast guy or the slow guy? I think you just want to keep things close because even if you agree on the speed, you pulls on the stick first, how hard, and in what direction cannot be agreed upon.
The number of variables in a fight is really big. A few mph and lbs will not make a difference
-
Agree a few mph faster isn't big....what about 40-60 mph faster?
The other night kappa and I had a few fights in the MA that were co alt but not E. I would consider kappa to be A LOT better then me but with more E the fight was a lot easier on my end(until the hordes jumped in on us :) ) I don't have the films of these fights but I would guess that I was max 40-45 mph faster at initial merge.
-
Agree a few mph faster isn't big....what about 40-60 mph faster?
The other night kappa and I had a few fights in the MA that were co alt but not E. I would consider kappa to be A LOT better then me but with more E the fight was a lot easier on my end(until the hordes jumped in on us :) ) I don't have the films of these fights but I would guess that I was max 40-45 mph faster at initial merge.
I think 40 faster will get you killed. But again it depends on other factors. Is that 40 or 60 faster than the best maneuvering speed for that plane? Is it over, bellow? Dies the plane have 20mm or 50cal?
If the slow plane pulls very hard and the fast doesnt the fast will have the advantage but what if the fast pulls hard and the slow does not? He will be in your 6.
Just too many variables fir a single one to make a difference assuming no extremes.
-
I think your right there are a lot of variables but I think the extra E does give an immediate advantage which can be capitalized easier then a lot of other variables such as plane models. IMO
-
If my fate of the 1v1 really was gonna be decided over a few pounds then it's going to a close fight. Because with such small amounts of weight being off it's going to take a LONG time for them to show...
I don't care if people shoot off ammo during a fight vs me because it shows they are threatened and trying EVERYTHING in their power to kill me. (Which makes me happy)
-
If more people duelled I've always thought the MA would be a funner place to fight ....maybe
I tend to fight in the MA like I'm duelling ...but then it's pretty dissappointing mosty, so I can't really recommend it ... hmm maybe I'm just stupid
-
... hmm maybe I'm just stupid
This! :lol :bolt:
...
:D I am kidding, Redd. :salute
In all seriousness, I think this post brings up a good point.
My view is that the MA is the MA and DA is the DA. Dueling isn't the focus of the MA "game"...that doesn't mean you can't get a good 1v1 in on occasion but IMHO I never fly in the MA with that expectation...it's more a pleasent surprise when it occurs.
The fact is the main areans are about score....we can all sit here and wish this was not the case but it doesn't change anything. The MA scoring systems are designed (for the most part) to reward flying styles and tactics that more closely resemble "real world" fighting. The pick, the vulch, surprise attack from out of the sun, E advantage, etc etc etc. The vast majority of MA players recognize this and fly accordingly and never branch out or challenge themselves...that is, I think, the crux of most of the complaints I hear in this thread and it's one I share as well. Until more MA players branch out, challenge themselves and learn some basic ACM beyond the HO shot and BnZ the MA game will remain static and stale. :bhead
-
I think your right there are a lot of variables but I think the extra E does give an immediate advantage which can be capitalized easier then a lot of other variables such as plane models. IMO
Unless you are in an LVT4, then you can pawn all. :D
-
1. Climbing above the determined alt outside of visual range to build up more speed so you have that E advantage in the merge.
Fella named EAce uses this tactic and wont tell you about it. And you are correct, it is a cheap loser move.
2. Dumping Ammo at takeoff down to enough rounds for that single kill....of course making your plane lighter in the fight.
Probably does that too. But the funniest thing I've seen is, a couple of times guys dove in for what looked like the old move for position and BOOM, he had dropped a bomb because he said it gave him a quicker dive and more E.... I just had to laugh.
-
Fella named EAce uses this tactic and wont tell you about it. And you are correct, it is a cheap loser move.
Probably does that too. But the funniest thing I've seen is, a couple of times guys dove in for what looked like the old move for position and BOOM, he had dropped a bomb because he said it gave him a quicker dive and more E.... I just had to laugh.
and still dies. It just takes a minute or two longer lol
-
Probably does that too. But the funniest thing I've seen is, a couple of times guys dove in for what looked like the old move for position and BOOM, he had dropped a bomb because he said it gave him a quicker dive and more E.... I just had to laugh.
:rofl if he was In a German plane he screwed himself with a 300 pound bomb rack! :rofl
-
hmm maybe I'm just stupid
Nah.
The fact is the main areans are about score....we can all sit here and wish this was not the case but it doesn't change anything. The MA scoring systems are designed (for the most part) to reward flying styles and tactics that more closely resemble "real world" fighting.
More deeply I think the MA favours behaviour which will get you the most 'win', because this is for most players a narcissistic fantasy indulgence activity. Many won't pay $15 a month for a reality / ego check because that is uncomfortable (even if this stages are fleeting).
Not everyone plays this way. To many the score is meaningless and the outcome is incidental. I myself have far more admiration of those who are skillful and have a warrior's heart than those who are 'effective' by any quantifiable means.
A meaningful PM or a salute from multiple foes who have defeated you but acknowledge your spirit is far more valuable than a good score, to me.
-
Nah.
More deeply I think the MA favours behaviour which will get you the most 'win', because this is for most players a narcissistic fantasy indulgence activity. Many won't pay $15 a month for a reality / ego check because that is uncomfortable (even if this stages are fleeting).
Not everyone plays this way. To many the score is meaningless and the outcome is incidental. I myself have far more admiration of those who are skillful and have a warrior's heart than those who are 'effective' by any quantifiable means.
A meaningful PM or a salute from multiple foes who have defeated you but acknowledge your spirit is far more valuable than a good score, to me.
Well stated. :aok
-
More deeply I think the MA favours behaviour which will get you the most 'win', because this is for most players a narcissistic fantasy indulgence activity. Many won't pay $15 a month for a reality / ego check because that is uncomfortable (even if this stages are fleeting).
Agreed.
Not everyone plays this way. To many the score is meaningless and the outcome is incidental. I myself have far more admiration of those who are skillful and have a warrior's heart than those who are 'effective' by any quantifiable means.
Agreed as well....but I would say a sizable majority of the population do fly this way and some (i put myself into this catagory) are in the middle and are a mix of the two styles i.e. Will fight but want to land "kills" so will not throw themselves into a situation where they know they have little or no chance of success. An example in my case would be anything more than a 3 on 1 (3 being my absolute SA limit due to age and ADD... :D )
-
Agreed as well....but I would say a sizable majority of the population do fly this way and some (i put myself into this catagory) are in the middle and are a mix of the two styles i.e. Will fight but want to land "kills" so will not throw themselves into a situation where they know they have little or no chance of success. An example in my case would be anything more than a 3 on 1 (3 being my absolute SA limit due to age and ADD... :D )
Diversity is a good thing of course. In this game you make your own choice about your activities and then everybody generally knows what they are, all propaganda and b/s aside.
-
Diversity is a good thing of course. In this game you make your own choice about your activities and then everybody generally knows what they are, all propaganda and b/s aside.
Yup. I do wish more would mix it up or at least followed a "mixed" style rather then the pure BnZ horders...it would liven things up quite a bit.
I wishes were fishes..... :D
-
So after a very quick rematch I found that both these tactics influence the fight a lot more then a lot of you think.
Went from a BnZ me fight to a surf inn dead in 2 turns fight. Dumping ammo in the FM2 makes that plane a ton more agile.
-
So after a very quick rematch I found that both these tactics influence the fight a lot more then a lot of you think.
Went from a BnZ me fight to a surf inn dead in 2 turns fight. Dumping ammo in the FM2 makes that plane a ton more agile.
Hell yeah. Dumping ammo in any plane will make it more agile. It's just common sense. What amazes me is that most of these duelers in this thread refuse to admit it.
-
I sometimes duel 1 v 1 in the DA for fun or to see if I'm a little rusty (still learning :) )
However, for me the best types of fights are in the MA. When you run into that con, doesn't matter if he's higher or lower. In the MA the cards are shuffled and you're dealt what you're dealt. No even playing field that most ask for in a 1 v 1 in the DA.
"A meaningful PM or a salute from multiple foes who have defeated you but acknowledge your spirit is far more valuable than a good score, to me."
Agreed.
"Will fight but want to land "kills" so will not throw themselves into a situation where they know they have little or no chance of success."
That's how I am too. If I have an OK chance I will try to assist. Sometimes I just like playing bait :devil . But if I get kills I sometimes want to land them, other times I could care less. The score is meaningless overall, to me and many others. The only thing that it really influences is you being able to turn a fleet, whoop-dee-doo :rolleyes: . There are some who have the 'higher' scores who are good, but I am more nervous around the middle category (300-1000 range), because those guys are some of the "charge into battle against all odds" type. Who will fight to the death to make sure you suck dirt.
Those are the ones I watch out for :uhoh
:cheers:
-
So recently I have heard of people going to the DA and certain things being used for giving them a slight advantage in a co alt like plane fight. Like the ones in the DA between 23 and 24. The two things people have supposedly been doing is...
1. Climbing above the determined alt outside of visual range to build up more speed so you have that E advantage in the merge.
2. Dumping Ammo at takeoff down to enough rounds for that single kill....of course making your plane lighter in the fight.
Myself personally I don't do anything that isn't agreed upon by the duelers at the DA prior to flight, verbally and on film. I know BEs dueling bracket allowed for ammo dumping but in the normal informal duels I go strictly to merge alt and do not dump ammo unless agreed upon.
Do you guys do this whenever you guys go to the DA? I feel like it's kind of cheap if your not going to at least tell the person before hand so they can even up the fight.
Thoughts?
<cough> AKAK :rolleyes:
Heading in the opposite direction of the duel (flying north when you should be flying south) when taking off from the north base...
... to then a few minutes later turning around, finally heading south, in order to gather up an E advantage is a limp wristed approach to dueling. :old:
<cough> AKAK :rolleyes:
Nuff said. :)
-
Hell yeah. Dumping ammo in any plane will make it more agile. It's just common sense. What amazes me is that most of these duelers in this thread refuse to admit it.
What most of these duelers wont admit is that agile plane = winning because they would be admitting to something that is wrong. Any dueler will admit to lighter plane = more agile.
-
Hell yeah. Dumping ammo in any plane will make it more agile. It's just common sense. What amazes me is that most of these duelers in this thread refuse to admit it.
who are you calling out? Because id love to hear who in this thread that is titled "duelers" shoots ammo before their fight.
-
So after a very quick rematch I found that both these tactics influence the fight a lot more then a lot of you think.
Went from a BnZ me fight to a surf inn dead in 2 turns fight. Dumping ammo in the FM2 makes that plane a ton more agile.
so, the rematch was done at the same exact speeds and you guys made the same exact moves at the same time as the previous fights and the outcone changed right? :rofl
Its funny how you ask a question, you get an answer, and then argue with it because it was not what you hoped for. Kind of: Doctor do I need glasses? Yes! No I dont think so. My friend said I dont :rofl
-
So after a very quick rematch I found that both these tactics influence the fight a lot more then a lot of you think.
Went from a BnZ me fight to a surf inn dead in 2 turns fight. Dumping ammo in the FM2 makes that plane a ton more agile.
I could see it going from a BnZ to dead in two turns fight based on getting alt and E prior to the merge but not on gun/ammo weight alone. If both were used in your rematch how do you know which made the difference?
BTW, I'm also curious as to the fuel/ammo loadout you used in our F4F-4 duels last week?
-
Interesting topic.
I was a DA Junkie for a long time. Keep in mind I flew my first sortie in about 7 years the other night (Been playing Warcraft). So I have not done it in a very long time.
Most of the guys I hung out with in the DA Dumped ammo.... including myself. Was just a habit really. No clue if it really helped anything. If someone broke alt cap at the merge they usually just screwed themselves and died quicker. If they really really broke alt cap and tried to BnZ I would just auger and find someone else to fight.
Redd made a great point..... After spending countless hours dueling the MA was different for me. I flew like I was in the DA when in the MA. This can create great fights but can also create a ton of frustration/anger.
-
<cough> AKAK :rolleyes:
Heading in the opposite direction of the duel (flying north when you should be flying south) when taking off from the north base...
... to then a few minutes later turning around, finally heading south, in order to gather up an E advantage is a limp wristed approach to dueling. :old:
<cough> AKAK :rolleyes:
Nuff said. :)
The films were posted of our duels and not one of them showed me going above the agreed upon merge or doing anything else that would have broken our duel agreement. There is nothing 'cheating' about climbing over your base to the agreed upon merge altitude before turning to meet at the center.
I particularly enjoyed the one duel in which I shot your fuel tank and caused you to run out of fuel and you started whining how I took up 50% fuel instead of 25% and ran you out of gas. :rofl
You're just pissed I beat the crap out of you and enjoyed rubbing in your face the fact that you sucked at this game.
ack-ack
-
You're just pissed I beat the crap out of you and enjoyed rubbing in your face the fact that you sucked at this game.
ack-ack
OMG........BAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Did you expect anything less from Middrift? If so, you are an optimistic soul....
-
The films were posted of our duels and not one of them showed me going above the agreed upon merge or doing anything else that would have broken our duel agreement. There is nothing 'cheating' about climbing over your base to the agreed upon merge altitude before turning to meet at the center.
I particularly enjoyed the one duel in which I shot your fuel tank and caused you to run out of fuel and you started whining how I took up 50% fuel instead of 25% and ran you out of gas. :rofl
You're just pissed I beat the crap out of you and enjoyed rubbing in your face the fact that you sucked at this game.
ack-ack
BS. Halfway has never been shot down :old:
-
There is nothing 'cheating' about climbing over your base to the agreed upon merge altitude before turning to meet at the center.
Have to say, that would have surprised me, too. I figure you both take off and head towards each other.
- oldman
-
A lot of times I duel Dedalos he dumps ammo , unfortunately he mostly dumps it into my plane.
-
YouDie is notorious for doing this. . .and still losing :lol
Some dweebs just can't win without the advantage. . .and can't win with the advantage either. :joystick:
-
A lot of times I duel Dedalos he dumps ammo , unfortunately he mostly dumps it into my plane.
not we are both in f6fs :old: you make a spit out of that thing. Or is it because you dump ammo? :rofl
-
YouDie is notorious for doing this. . .and still losing :lol
Some dweebs just can't win without the advantage. . .and can't win with the advantage either. :joystick:
you beat him? :rofl he must be bad! :neener: :P :lol ;)
-
YouDie/Bong I had to squelch him after a barrage or rage PMs.
Shooting him down is not advisable after he's made a misjudgement. ;)
-
so, the rematch was done at the same exact speeds and you guys made the same exact moves at the same time as the previous fights and the outcone changed right? :rofl
Its funny how you ask a question, you get an answer, and then argue with it because it was not what you hoped for. Kind of: Doctor do I need glasses? Yes! No I dont think so. My friend said I dont :rofl
It's a discussion....and from how the second duel went I'd say it is more of a factor then some seem to believe...I asked a question... doesn't mean I have to take their answers especially when I have seen the results of doing it both ways.
-
I could see it going from a BnZ to dead in two turns fight based on getting alt and E prior to the merge but not on gun/ammo weight alone. If both were used in your rematch how do you know which made the difference?
BTW, I'm also curious as to the fuel/ammo loadout you used in our F4F-4 duels last week?
25 and DTs with full ammo at merge.
-
It's a discussion....and from how the second duel went I'd say it is more of a factor then some seem to believe...I asked a question... doesn't mean I have to take their answers especially when I have seen the results of doing it both ways.
so how can you tell what made the difference in the second duels? Did you do not as I said in my post? If you didnt how can you tell it was not something else?
-
25 and DTs with full ammo at merge.
I asked because our duels were very close. I watched the films yesterday. I was 50% internal at take off with full ammo on merge using the 4 gun package.
Unless you were carrying the 6 gun package, which would add a little weight back in, I'm guessing I had a more fuel weight than you did during the fights and it didn't make a noticable difference. That first fight went 6 1/2 minutes and the second was around 5 minutes so whatever difference there was wasn't stopping us from both pushing our planes to the same limits.
Like I said, an E advantage at the merge might have made a difference. A little extra weight not so much.
BTW, on watching the films you took part of my wing off in the second fight which prevented me from recovering from the stall I entered.
Good fights. :salute
-
The films were posted of our duels and not one of them showed me going above the agreed upon merge or doing anything else that would have broken our duel agreement. There is nothing 'cheating' about climbing over your base to the agreed upon merge altitude before turning to meet at the center.
I particularly enjoyed the one duel in which I shot your fuel tank and caused you to run out of fuel and you started whining how I took up 50% fuel instead of 25% and ran you out of gas. :rofl
You're just pissed I beat the crap out of you and enjoyed rubbing in your face the fact that you sucked at this game.
ack-ack
I was doing 322mph, you were at 365mph and won with the rope due to your extra speed. Climbing to alt above your base while I'm heading to the center of the dueling field climbing out gave you the E advantage. Even Debrody posted same and could tell what you did after you posted your self incriminating film... and as Raphael noted: "oh cool you posted the video proving the other guy's point! never seen that before!" :rolleyes:
Bruv also opined on your "limp wristed" tactics. :)
Three witnesses commenting on your "dueling" tactics, not counting my own observation. :huh
You climbed to alt over your base so I couldn't see what you were doing. Then you finally turned to face me after you filled up with your hidden E. :rolleyes:
You can't face the truth as observed by three others as well as me after taking a look at your film which you posted thinking your tactics where above board...
...and now you're defending yourself still from said self shaming. :)
You had me waste time and fuel while you were using your questionable, witnessed, and thoroughly opined on, proven and reviewed "dueling tactics". :rolleyes:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,313012.msg4057983.html#msg4057983
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,313012.msg4058071.html#msg4058071
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,313012.msg4058078.html#msg4058078
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,313012.msg4058182.html#msg4058182
Shamed and caught by multiple witnesses. :ahand
Now, more than nuff said. :aok
-
Lol Midway. You got roped by a 40mph difference? :rofl
so did you agree on merge speed or merge alt? Last I checked no one merges at the same speed. Pull the stick a little less next time?
-
Lol Midway. You got roped by a 40mph difference? :rofl
so did you agree on merge speed or merge alt? Last I checked no one merges at the same speed. Pull the stick a little less next time?
We set an agreed on altitude. AKAK headed in the opposite direction from me building his alt and hidden E. I even had to ask him to come to the center of the arena which after a few minutes he finally left his base and did... :rolleyes:
I was eight months into the game, AKAK 10+ years. He barely won the duel and only due to my two separate shots on him not being lethal and my running out of fuel due to a small fuel tank ping after I was already very low on fuel waiting for him to finally show. My leaking fuel trail lasting less than a second. :frown: He only finally won because he shot at me as my engine was fuel deprived and I was coasting to ditch on the ground. :rolleyes:
Fact is he couldn't muster a proper duel against an eight month newb... he having to resort to "limp wristed" (not my words, these are Bruv's posted opinion after he reviewed said film) tactics and I became a much better pilot in time... pwning AKAK and his ego plenty. :aok
Climbing over your base in circles to gain altitude and E out of range before flying towards your dueling partner is limp wristed , shows fear & weakness of character. :old:
Certainly most would agree that it's also cheap as the original poster stated. :old:
Let it be known. :old:
Now, way way more than nuff said. :old:
-
so how can you tell what made the difference in the second duels? Did you do not as I said in my post? If you didnt how can you tell it was not something else?
As far as what made the difference I can't tell but this wasn't just a little difference....since it was dramatically better I assume both were effecting it.
I asked because our duels were very close. I watched the films yesterday. I was 50% internal at take off with full ammo on merge using the 4 gun package.
Unless you were carrying the 6 gun package, which would add a little weight back in, I'm guessing I had a more fuel weight than you did during the fights and it didn't make a noticable difference. That first fight went 6 1/2 minutes and the second was around 5 minutes so whatever difference there was wasn't stopping us from both pushing our planes to the same limits.
Like I said, an E advantage at the merge might have made a difference. A little extra weight not so much.
BTW, on watching the films you took part of my wing off in the second fight which prevented me from recovering from the stall I entered.
Good fights. :salute
I don't know on the guns...whatever is default. I was debating 50% or 25% and DTs, not sure how the DTs effect the F4Fs performance after you release them.(I know some planes get effected more and some not at all)
-
As far as what made the difference I can't tell but this wasn't just a little difference....since it was dramatically better I assume both were effecting it.
I don't know on the guns...whatever is default. I was debating 50% or 25% and DTs, not sure how the DTs effect the F4Fs performance after you release them.(I know some planes get effected more and some not at all)
most likely there were 20 other things that made the difference.
I honestly cannot think of any way to test this idea.
-
Ack-Ack is better than me and I'm bitter and quit the game because I suck
Good, you found the thread with the links to the films. People will be able to see for themselves I did nothing wrong in the duels or anything else that would have given me an unfair advantage.
It really must piss you off that you weren't very good at this game, especially flying such an easy mode plane like the Spitfire. I really never ran into someone that wasn't very good in the Spitfire and totally dependent on it until you started to play and was surprised that someone could actually suck in a plane that is so easy to fly. Explains why you had difficulties in flying the P-38 and P-51D when you tried flying those...how long did you last in those planes? I know you barely lasted a month or so in the P-38 before you gave up because it was too hard and you quit the game after a couple of weeks in the P-51D because you also had a tough time in it.
It still makes me chuckle thinking that someone could be so awful that not even a Spitfire could help them. I will admit I do miss making you cry on Channel 200, it was so easy and always good for a laugh or two.
ack-ack
-
(http://amazingasset.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/dont-overthink-it-e1349120376279.jpg)
-
I was doing 322mph, you were at 365mph and won with the rope due to your extra speed. Climbing to alt above your base while I'm heading to the center of the dueling field climbing out gave you the E advantage. Even Debrody posted same and could tell what you did after you posted your self incriminating film... and as Raphael noted: "oh cool you posted the video proving the other guy's point! never seen that before!" :rolleyes:
Bruv also opined on your "limp wristed" tactics. :)
Three witnesses commenting on your "dueling" tactics, not counting my own observation. :huh
You climbed to alt over your base so I couldn't see what you were doing. Then you finally turned to face me after you filled up with your hidden E. :rolleyes:
You can't face the truth as observed by three others as well as me after taking a look at your film which you posted thinking your tactics where above board...
...and now you're defending yourself still from said self shaming. :)
You had me waste time and fuel while you were using your questionable, witnessed, and thoroughly opined on, proven and reviewed "dueling tactics". :rolleyes:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,313012.msg4057983.html#msg4057983
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,313012.msg4058071.html#msg4058071
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,313012.msg4058078.html#msg4058078
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,313012.msg4058182.html#msg4058182
Shamed and caught by multiple witnesses. :ahand
Now, more than nuff said. :aok
And as Batfink, Dedalos, Kappa, Grizz, DrBone, and many others have said, "The master dueler knows the winner is almost always the one going a slower at the merge (which is how I beat you all the time in Spits).
While I'm sure Bruv is a master dueler, he knows this as well and is chuckling somewhere in the United Kingdom that someone is screaming cheat at being "handicapped" with a slower speed at the merge.
-
Good, you found the thread with the links to the films. People will be able to see for themselves I did nothing wrong in the duels or anything else that would have given me an unfair advantage.
It really must piss you off that you weren't very good at this game, especially flying such an easy mode plane like the Spitfire. I really never ran into someone that wasn't very good in the Spitfire and totally dependent on it until you started to play and was surprised that someone could actually suck in a plane that is so easy to fly. Explains why you had difficulties in flying the P-38 and P-51D when you tried flying those...how long did you last in those planes? I know you barely lasted a month or so in the P-38 before you gave up because it was too hard and you quit the game after a couple of weeks in the P-51D because you also had a tough time in it.
It still makes me chuckle thinking that someone could be so awful that not even a Spitfire could help them. I will admit I do miss making you cry on Channel 200, it was so easy and always good for a laugh or two.
ack-ack
Quoting an esteemed member of the community (the most honourable dirtdart):
"6K merge? Hmmm... as a experten watcher.... they all seem to merge cold on the deck to avoid such nonsense as arriving to the fight with a bit more mojo. I cannot remember ever climbing in the DA.
My world is black
As I see a hero take some flak.
Midway don't weep
Because he fought cheap.
You are classier than akak."
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,313012.msg4058080.html#msg4058080
:)
-
Quoting and esteemed member of the community:
"6K merge? Hmmm... as a experten watcher.... they all seem to merge cold on the deck to avoid such nonsense as arriving to the fight with a bit more mojo. I cannot remember ever climbing in the DA.
My world is black
As I see a hero take some flak.
Midway don't weep
Because he fought cheap.
You are classier than akak."
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,313012.msg4058080.html#msg4058080
:)
You are citing a ghey man's poem to you?
-
You are citing a ghey man's poem to you?
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Me at the Khyber Pass.
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/971187_10151532814407949_1159733237_n.jpg)
:aok :salute :rock
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,353111.msg4673186.html#msg4673186 :aok
An honourable and esteemed member of the community indeed. :old:
-
not this... again... nooo...
-
not this... again... nooo...
Have no idea who Midway is , but I'm guessing I missed out on some popcorn and deckchair moments at some stage
-
most likely there were 20 other things that made the difference.
I honestly cannot think of any way to test this idea.
It's pretty easy to see if DT's have an effect or not after dropping,just load the DT's and drop them and look to see if the hanger is still inplace. Then respawn without the DT's and check to see if the hangers are still attached,if they are then the DT's have no effect after they are dropped. If there are no hangers visable when you up without DT's then the DT's have an effect even after the dropping.
In the German plane the rack to hold the DT isn't on the plane if you don't use a DT,on the P51 as an example the DT hangers are always on the wing so the flight performance is the same whether you loaded DT's or not.
IMHO dropping 50 or 100 LB's of ammo make almost no difference on an A/C that weighs 5000 or more pounds. Fuel weights are another matter al together.
:salute
-
It's pretty easy to see if DT's have an effect or not after dropping,just load the DT's and drop them and look to see if the hanger is still inplace. Then respawn without the DT's and check to see if the hangers are still attached,if they are then the DT's have no effect after they are dropped. If there are no hangers visable when you up without DT's then the DT's have an effect even after the dropping.
In the German plane the rack to hold the DT isn't on the plane if you don't use a DT,on the P51 as an example the DT hangers are always on the wing so the flight performance is the same whether you loaded DT's or not.
IMHO dropping 50 or 100 LB's of ammo make almost no difference on an A/C that weighs 5000 or more pounds. Fuel weights are another matter al together.
:salute
Ded quoted Junky responding to two different posts and himself responding to the other one.
I'm pretty sure the DT mounts on the F4F-4 are always there.
-
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/971187_10151532814407949_1159733237_n.jpg)
:aok :salute :rock
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,353111.msg4673186.html#msg4673186 :aok
An honourable and esteemed member of the community indeed. :old:
His service to this great nation is not in question...his poetry and choice of people he writes it for is.
-
His service to this great nation is not in question...his poetry and choice of people he writes it for is.
You're just jealous cause you got no poem written for you by an honourable and esteemed member of the community. :)
-
Rose are red
violets are blue
Changeup can duel
if he ever dueled Midway
he'd make him look like a fool
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/puddinpops.gif) (http://s279.photobucket.com/user/TheAmish/media/puddinpops.gif.html)
-
Rose are red
violets are blue
Changeup can duel
if he ever dueled Midway
he'd make him look like a fool
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/puddinpops.gif) (http://s279.photobucket.com/user/TheAmish/media/puddinpops.gif.html)
:lol
Please ask Changeup how our dueling session went. We flew P51s and P47s. I won't say anymore.
Let's just say it wouldn't be right for me to brag. :)
-
Ded quoted Junky responding to two different posts and himself responding to the other one.
I'm pretty sure the DT mounts on the F4F-4 are always there.
Guess I misread....
You are correct about the mounts.
:salute
-
Ded quoted Junky responding to two different posts and himself responding to the other one.
I'm pretty sure the DT mounts on the F4F-4 are always there.
yep, responded from phone and its too hard to format everything. Was not talking about DTs
-
:lol
Please ask Changeup how our dueling session went. We flew P51s and P47s. I won't say anymore.
Let's just say it wouldn't be right for me to brag. :)
Here's how it went over the last two years:
Spits
Changeup 45 - Midway 4
51D's
Changeup 0 - Midway 1
Changeup 1 - Theta 0
47M's
Changeup 2 - Midway 4
That's about how it went. Now, if you wanna come on back, I'll serve you up some more. Notice how he always leaves out HIS plane...the Spit to which I absolutely pwned him.
-
Changeup 45 - Midway 4
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/MidwayTranslation_zps6c1bc046.jpg) (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/rwrk2/media/MidwayTranslation_zps6c1bc046.jpg.html)
-
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/MidwayTranslation_zps6c1bc046.jpg) (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/rwrk2/media/MidwayTranslation_zps6c1bc046.jpg.html)
:rofl
-
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/MidwayTranslation_zps6c1bc046.jpg) (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/rwrk2/media/MidwayTranslation_zps6c1bc046.jpg.html)
I will admit Changeup is very good in the Spitfire, but that is all I will admit. :)
-
Changeup isnt "good". Its you sucking that badly. End of the story, disappear.
-
I will admit Changeup is very good in the Spitfire, but that is all I will admit. :)
* Fulcrum continues to wait for DA time with Middrift, who will decline saying he pwns Fulcrum frequently yet cannot produce evidence to backup said claims*
Ye gods it gets old....
-
(http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/chipmunkduel.jpg)
-
(http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/chipmunkduel.jpg)
(http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr355/swatpeace/goonwithoutme.jpg)
-
building his alt and hidden E.
There is no such thing as hidden E, just good and bad judgement of the enemy's E state
-
There is no such thing as hidden E, just good and bad judgement of the enemy's E state
Although I'm from the camp where thinking dumping ammo is a shady way to get an advantage, I also believe the truly good duelers can figure out ways of overcoming these factors through ACM and judgment as you state here. I could dump ammo all day long but I still know you, Kappa, Bruv..... and gobs of other guys could whip me 9 out of 10 times purely because your ACM is more advanced than mine. This is the point I think Midway is missing. When it comes to the upper tier duelers, it's more about pilot skill than the airplane IMO.
-
* Fulcrum continues to be in the tower when fighting deadstik, for deadstik it never gets old.*
I want in on this train wreck.......
-
Speaking of duels nobody ever wants to just run 1v1s anymore...informal fights just to practice (something I have only a little of since I've been back)
-
I want in on this train wreck.......
Once I get back on I'll be happy to do so. Likely won't be until late this week unless things change.
Speaking of duels nobody ever wants to just run 1v1s anymore...informal fights just to practice (something I have only a little of since I've been back)
Ditto.
:salute
-
Speaking of duels nobody ever wants to just run 1v1s anymore...informal fights just to practice (something I have only a little of since I've been back)
I'm always trying to improve my game. Unless I'm in middle of something with the squad I'm always willing to 1 vs 1 anybody.
-
Although I'm from the camp where thinking dumping ammo is a shady way to get an advantage, I also believe the truly good duelers can figure out ways of overcoming these factors through ACM and judgment as you state here. I could dump ammo all day long but I still know you, Kappa, Bruv..... and gobs of other guys could whip me 9 out of 10 times purely because your ACM is more advanced than mine. This is the point I think Midway is missing. When it comes to the upper tier duelers, it's more about pilot skill than the airplane IMO.
I agree with you here, but it is still no way to duel.... duel is equal states before the merge unless otherwise agreed on before the duel...
-
Changeup isnt "good". Its you sucking that badly. End of the story, disappear.
I recently duelled changeup repeatedly in the DA, all were good clean fights, most of which ended with me in flames. Nevertheless he is a gentleman and it was a pleasure and a challenge to fight him :salute
-
I recently duelled changeup repeatedly in the DA, all were good clean fights, most of which ended with me in flames. Nevertheless he is a gentleman and it was a pleasure and a challenge to fight him :salute
<S>
-
I recently duelled changeup repeatedly in the DA, all were good clean fights, most of which ended with me in flames. Nevertheless he is a gentleman and it was a pleasure and a challenge to fight him :salute
He is a squaddie of mine and i dont want to belittle him or his abilities. Maybe i used the wrong words - he is allright, but isnt an ACM genius like some real experts out there. My point was, midway lost really badly in his own plane against one who isnt amongst the very best: this makes his comments about how awesome he is utter nonsense.