Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: gyrene81 on October 22, 2013, 10:04:12 PM
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just a goofy idea that popped into my head and it may not be a good idea but i thought i'd toss it on the table...
the way things work now, if a group of players decides to pick a specific plane for whatever reason and they choose a specific skin, they are all completely identical. that's not the way it worked in reality and in the spirit of "historical immersion" it looks "wrong" in screen shots and films. not to mention the load on our systems when we don't have "disable other player skins marked then get into a big crowd.
separate all squadron, and pilot markings from the skins...maybe even the country markings. i think it would make locating and creating skins easier if historical markings attributed to specific pilots/squadrons weren't part of the skin making process. it would allow more skin variations to be submitted and the creation process should be somewhat faster. it would also allow all of us cartoon pile-its a lot of leeway in plane customization by increasing the number of variations available.
all markings would have to be historically accurate and submitted just like the skins and in the submission the plane make/model/year and pilot associated with them would have to accompany it. the skin creators wouldn't necessarily have to be the ones creating the markings. the markings are less detailed and easier to make so people who can't or don't want to take the time to make skins can create markings.
make the markings player chooseable overlays that can be applied in the hangar via a menu submenu to the skins in the hangar so that only appropriate markings could be applied to any plane with whatever skin is chosen. yes it would require a separate database layer for the markings and a little reprogramming in the hangar menu.
<fireproof suit on>
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guess this idea is too complex for any feedback...maybe i need to modify it. :headscratch:
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Sounds good to me. I understand exactly what you're asking for and think it would be a great addition - especially during special events.
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I like it. At the very least, bombers in formations should have different tail numbers and radio codes.
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we would have hundreds and thousands of marking waiting to be approved by hitech before they can be used in the game. then they would have to be downloaded to each player and it would take a bigger hit on fps as now the game has to load hundreds of different custom markins as each plane you see may have a skin that is slightly different than the next.
probably not a good idea.
semp
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As appealing as it would be to see a unit flying with variations of the same skin, I can't help but feel there's a good technical reason why this doesn't already exist.
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i thought about all that semp. the download wouldn't be any bigger than a skin download is now. the skins alone would be bigger than the markings. though without markings they would be smaller than they are now and there would be fewer skins. the markings would be very small since they could be made in 8 bit 256 color.
the luftwaffe skins would probably be the most numerous and complex due to the differences according to theater of operations, year and squadron. the usaaf would be primarily olive drab or bare metal. russia would be mostly a shade of gray. japan would vary a little but no more than 5 or 6 variations.
with simplified skins (basically paint jobs) and separate markings, a single skin could end up being equal a dozen or more of what exists now with a smaller load.
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we would have hundreds and thousands of marking waiting to be approved by hitech before they can be used in the game. then they would have to be downloaded to each player and it would take a bigger hit on fps as now the game has to load hundreds of different custom markins as each plane you see may have a skin that is slightly different than the next.
i thought about all that semp. the download wouldn't be any bigger than a skin download is now. the skins alone would be bigger than the markings. though without markings they would be smaller than they are now and there would be fewer skins. the markings would be very small since they could be made in 8 bit 256 color.
It's even simpler than that, guys. Each country would have the radio call sign letters and tail numbers created into a font. They would then be sized appropriately and placed on each plane. No big deal at all, just a simple texture overlay. Icons are already live updated, and linked to each plane as they move about the sky, and the call signs/numbers don't even have to be dynamic.
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It's even simpler than that, guys. Each country would have the radio call sign letters and tail numbers created into a font. They would then be sized appropriately and placed on each plane. No big deal at all, just a simple texture overlay. Icons are already live updated, and linked to each plane as they move about the sky, and the call signs/numbers don't even have to be dynamic.
Then worth exploring.
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As appealing as it would be to see a unit flying with variations of the same skin, I can't help but feel there's a good technical reason why this doesn't already exist.
probably programming and database issue. it could be more complex than i'm thinking it is since it would require tying in markings to the appropriate airplane and the skin so that you don't end up with a russian p51 with japanese pilot markings and country insignia outside of where it belongs.
if it were me, i'd limit the markings to those of actual pilots and the aircraft they flew so the database would be easier to construct and update. when a set of markings is submitted, they would have to include a side view of the skin like what the skinners use now for reference, the pilots name, the year and the plane they apply to in order to be added. many of the markings like country insignia could be turned into simple templates so they don't have to be reproduced every single time.
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It's even simpler than that, guys. Each country would have the radio call sign letters and tail numbers created into a font. They would then be sized appropriately and placed on each plane. No big deal at all, just a simple texture overlay. Icons are already live updated, and linked to each plane as they move about the sky, and the call signs/numbers don't even have to be dynamic.
didn't even think about that Jeff...thanks. :aok :salute
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Then worth exploring.
I totally agree. Some of our history buffs could create a spreadsheet that could be easily read into code, and then your plane's tail number and call sign would be selected from that. For example (totally made up stuff):
| plane | skin id | letters | numbers |
| B17G | 4 | L;+G | 46827 |
| B17G | 4 | L;+H | 46828 |
| B17G | 4 | L;+I | 46829 |
Thoughts? I think there are some interesting possibilities here.
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It's even simpler than that, guys. Each country would have the radio call sign letters and tail numbers created into a font. They would then be sized appropriately and placed on each plane. No big deal at all, just a simple texture overlay. Icons are already live updated, and linked to each plane as they move about the sky, and the call signs/numbers don't even have to be dynamic.
it would still take system resources to keep track of all the different markins in addition to skins. but one thing that basically kills the wish at least for now is the fact that it would only bee seen in films. in the middle of a furball, they hardly notice the markings.
semp
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I like it if it can be done without impacting performance to a noticeable degree (which I'm pretty sure it wouldn't).
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it would still take system resources to keep track of all the different markins in addition to skins. but one thing that basically kills the wish at least for now is the fact that it would only bee seen in films. in the middle of a furball, they hardly notice the markings.
semp
It really wouldn't. Once the textures are overlaid on the 3D model, they are there and loaded into memory. It would be no more resource intensive than it is currently.
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I totally agree. Some of our history buffs could create a spreadsheet that could be easily read into code, and then your plane's tail number and call sign would be selected from that. For example (totally made up stuff):
| plane | skin id | letters | numbers |
| B17G | 4 | L;+G | 46827 |
| B17G | 4 | L;+H | 46828 |
| B17G | 4 | L;+I | 46829 |
Thoughts? I think there are some interesting possibilities here.
i like that idea very much. it would still have to be historical but it would simplify the creation of aircraft skins a good deal. what about squadron insignia, got any idea on that?
it would still take system resources to keep track of all the different markins in addition to skins. but one thing that basically kills the wish at least for now is the fact that it would only bee seen in films. in the middle of a furball, they hardly notice the markings.
semp
how does that kill the wish? the differences in the existing skins only get seen in films but that doesn't stop people from creating more skins... this is just an idea to simplify the process of skin creation while increasing variations even though they aren't as visible as the paint job.
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i like that idea very much. it would still have to be historical but it would simplify the creation of aircraft skins a good deal. what about squadron insignia, got any idea on that?
Yeah, the spreadsheet could get as complex as they wanted to implement. Really, the best way would be to have a team of submitters and a web form. It's much easier to do in a database with unique keys rather than a spreadsheet, as the latter has a lot of repetition. Each plane has a list of skins, each skin (effectively a squadron/wing base coloring) would have insignia, call signs, and tail number combinations that are authorized for it, and are distributed in a to-be-determined manner.
how does that kill the wish? the differences in the existing skins only get seen in films but that doesn't stop people from creating more skins... this is just an idea to simplify the process of skin creation while increasing variations even though they aren't as visible as the paint job.
It definitely doesn't kill the wish, and furthermore, he's wrong, as in bomber formations, it peeves me when I'm in F3 mode/guns and see that all my bombers are the same exact plane. The same applies to F3 mode in the DA/TA/custom arenas, etc.
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It really wouldn't. Once the textures are overlaid on the 3D model, they are there and loaded into memory. It would be no more resource intensive than it is currently.
remember each player has the possibility of having a slightly different airplanes. so even with the same skin it still wouldnt be the same airplane. currently in the game you see a lot of airplanes with the same skin. for example our squad likes to fly bombers with the same skin. now you are talking about 10 or 12 different skins on the bombers instead of only one.
semp
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remember each player has the possibility of having a slightly different airplanes. so even with the same skin it still wouldnt be the same airplane. currently in the game you see a lot of airplanes with the same skin. for example our squad likes to fly bombers with the same skin. now you are talking about 10 or 12 different skins on the bombers instead of only one.
semp
it should only be 10 or 12 variations of the same skin...and if the insignia are created in 8bit 256 color scheme, they should be lower overhead than what we currently have. they wouldn't even have to be rendered outside of 1000 yards. they aren't visible outside that range now even in full zoom.
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Wouldn't it be the same skin, with different decals applied? Much like how a squad's noseart is applied on top of the selected skin? I hate to admit it - and I'm not playing it anymore - but that's one thing I liked about customizing your plane in War Thunder; you choose the base skin and then add a couple of decals to "personalize" your plane.
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Wouldn't it be the same skin, with different decals applied? Much like how a squad's noseart is applied on top of the selected skin? I hate to admit it - and I'm not playing it anymore - but that's one thing I liked about customizing your plane in War Thunder; you choose the base skin and then add a couple of decals to "personalize" your plane.
it should only be 10 or 12 variations of the same skin...and if the insignia are created in 8bit 256 color scheme, they should be lower overhead than what we currently have. they wouldn't even have to be rendered outside of 1000 yards. they aren't visible outside that range now even in full zoom.
You guys got it exactly right. It really isn't a big resource requirement by any stretch.
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Questions for gyrene:
1. Would this be arena specific?
2. For events like FSO, you would have your squadron ICON and then your aircraft number on a generic skin?
3. Do you envision that skins would only be available for non-squadron pilots?
4. Do you think for an arena like the MA that side symbol (Knight/Rook/Bishop) would replace country symbol? I.e. on wings and tail?
5. Would aircraft number be linked to the current number in the air for that side?
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+1
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Questions for gyrene:
1. Would this be arena specific?
2. For events like FSO, you would have your squadron ICON and then your aircraft number on a generic skin?
3. Do you envision that skins would only be available for non-squadron pilots?
4. Do you think for an arena like the MA that side symbol (Knight/Rook/Bishop) would replace country symbol? I.e. on wings and tail?
5. Would aircraft number be linked to the current number in the air for that side?
oooh, interesting questions 2-5...never even thought of that. i was just thinking more of separating the historical markings from the basic paint jobs to make it easier for the skin makers and give players more flexible variety, while maintaining the historical aspect. never thought about that much personalization and the idea wouldn't be to limit usage to specific groups.
if htc allowed squadron noseart to be part of the customization that would be very cool for special events for sure.
i never thought about chess piece symbols on the planes...especially in place of historical markings, like country symbols. if historical accuracy is to be maintained, i would think the chess piece symbols do not belong on the planes in place of country symbols.
lol, about #5, what if your aircraft number was your player ranking number? i wouldn't want to put the added burden of the server trying to dynamically change the number on planes in the air as those numbers change constantly while people are getting shot down...bad idea.
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I could see it working and not being that great of a resource hog if you had base skin, then an overlay with the different numbers and markings. Not so sure about the lower res looking ok though. Regular stuff like letters looks bad if it's pixelated.
My main technical concern is even as it stands now, loading the appropriate skin for new vehicles taxes marginal systems. It would require an additional file be searched for and loaded per vehicle in sight. I'd be worried about microstutters. It's a fairly safe bet it would take a faster system to run than the current system.
I'd question if it would wind up with more people having to turn on default skin only with this level of customization versus the way it is now.
I'd like to see it though.
Wiley.
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I like the idea but I think it would be kind of a programming nightmare to implement such a system.
ack-ack
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My main technical concern is even as it stands now, loading the appropriate skin for new vehicles taxes marginal systems. It would require an additional file be searched for and loaded per vehicle in sight. I'd be worried about microstutters. It's a fairly safe bet it would take a faster system to run than the current system.
I'd question if it would wind up with more people having to turn on default skin only with this level of customization versus the way it is now.
I'd like to see it though.
Wiley.
yeah not knowing how the game is programmed now makes it really difficult to say for sure one way or the other. it would be interesting to see how much difference removing all markings from skins would actually make. i know the markings are added layers.
I like the idea but I think it would be kind of a programming nightmare to implement such a system.
ack-ack
good possibility...think it would be as difficult as the changes that were made to the strat system?
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I like the idea but I think it would be kind of a programming nightmare to implement such a system.
ack-ack
This.
Still a +1 though.
:cool:
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Good idea.
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yeah not knowing how the game is programmed now makes it really difficult to say for sure one way or the other. it would be interesting to see how much difference removing all markings from skins would actually make. i know the markings are added layers.
This confused me at first, but now I see what you're saying. I don't think that's correct when it comes to the skin in the game. When you create the skin in Gimp or Photoshop or whatever, the different markings can be layers. However, the file the game references for a skin is a single layer, monolithic file. To accomplish the 'base skin, add markings' thing you're talking about, you'd need to load the base skin, then the markings layer to go over it. 2 files instead of the one we currently have. That's what I was talking about in my previous post.
Wiley.
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This confused me at first, but now I see what you're saying. I don't think that's correct when it comes to the skin in the game. When you create the skin in Gimp or Photoshop or whatever, the different markings can be layers. However, the file the game references for a skin is a single layer, monolithic file. To accomplish the 'base skin, add markings' thing you're talking about, you'd need to load the base skin, then the markings layer to go over it. 2 files instead of the one we currently have. That's what I was talking about in my previous post.
Wiley.
oh, ok i understand. i was looking more at the actual creation of the skin itself.
i had thought about something else last night regarding how our systems handle rendering the skins. as it sits right now, within a 6000 yard radius, if you had enough people in the area to utilize every skin available in the game, your system would be trying to render each skin as an individual object. if you were to take all of those skins and remove all but one of every skin that has the same basic underlying paint job, how many skins would that eliminate?
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oh, ok i understand. i was looking more at the actual creation of the skin itself.
i had thought about something else last night regarding how our systems handle rendering the skins. as it sits right now, within a 6000 yard radius, if you had enough people in the area to utilize every skin available in the game, your system would be trying to render each skin as an individual object. if you were to take all of those skins and remove all but one of every skin that has the same basic underlying paint job, how many skins would that eliminate?
You (and I) think too much. ;) :cheers:
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:rofl ya you're right, my brain is starting to protest too. :lol
:salute