Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: SkyRock on October 23, 2013, 05:44:19 PM
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to 6 hours...
Thank you in advance for doing this for me....
...but don't drag your feet about it...
Thank you.
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to 6 hours...
Thank you in advance for doing this for me....
...but don't drag your feet about it...
Thank you.
It should take 12 hours for them to implement this. :noid
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It should take 12 hours for them to implement this. :noid
2 weeks... :D
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I am all for it, in non prime time hours.
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off prime time side switch should probably be dropped to 2 hours or less...
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Yes! :aok
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-1 no,if its not broke don't fix it
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-1 no,if its not broke don't fix it
It is broke.
That's why we are recommending a way for HTC to fix it
:P
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I'd like to see it back at an hour.
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-1. If you fix it as suggested, then it will be broken.
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+1. Im not a vtard, wanna fight the bish horde where ever they are.
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I gave Skyrock a little tweek on the nose about this, but that doesn't mean I disagree with him. Especially during off peak hours It has to be boring for the guys on the other side of the world, or not since they all seem to be Bish.
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This is kind of a dilemma.
Over the years if I remember it correctly, Hitech doesn't really like country loyalty and the social results. He doesn't like squads over a certain size and the social results. Combined, you get static populations of tribal loyal, country loyalists with the social results. Switching country at will, or with a shorter time multiple would tend to erode country loyalty in favor of personal gratification. Might even lessen the drive to join squads in favor of fluid associations of the moment. But, then it might drive late night limited time less skilled players out of the game. Because they can never catch a break from getting slaughtered by the same hand full of players who just seem to be everywhere on a map the size of China.
EU and Aussi time I feel sorry for. During their time, jumping at will would be helpful to their game experience in finding someone to fight. 90 players or less on a map the size of china can be depressing.
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side jumping is for sissy's it should be 30 days....
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side jumping is for sissy's it should be 30 days....
i see Syko is still doing the same old thing...
(http://www.newsasylum.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Fat-Guy-Eats-Box-Of-Twinkies.jpg)
:neener: :neener: :neener: :bolt:
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12 hours to switch to a side with more players, 6 hours to switch to a side with less players.
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12 hours to switch to a side with more players, 6 hours to switch to a side with less players.
Thats some good option too.
Hitech, many many options have been brought up. Please, do us a favour, after all, youre living from our $$$.
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Fly in off peak times and you'll be begging for it to change to half an hour with the present numbers :cry :cry
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Thats some good option too.
Hitech, many many options have been brought up. Please, do us a favour, after all, youre living from our $$$.
Y'know, I bet he's never seen the hundreds of threads on it. ;)
I have a horrible feeling that we guys who want it are a vocal minority who don't see anything about it that's a downside.
If they were going to change it, they would've by now. It's been requested often enough since they changed it back. I remember 1 hour change times. I loved it.
Wiley.
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Switch time doesn't matter to me....I fly for the same side and could care less about spys or what not. I do think with a shorter time during primetime could result in some Gaming the game with people switching to get with the horde.....
In the end though....you red you dead
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At the least, let if we want to switch earlier than the 12 hour rule then let us spend our perks to switch early. I've got tens of thousands of perks just waiting to be wasted, let us spend our perks on switching early.
ack-ack
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people switching to get with the horde.....
seems to me hordelets are typically country-loyal so I doubt they would switch to join another horde.
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Maybe award perks for changing over to the lowest populated country. I don't switch due to my squad affiliation but I play late and its stinks when we have numbers and a lot of guys who would switch can't.
I get that there is some gaming that can happen with switching to sink a CV or screw up a mission, but that doesn't bother me. If they come to sink our boat or pounce on an NOE mission, it means an opportunity to fight, which is sort of the point of the game I believe.
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Maybe award perks for changing over to the lowest populated country.
I dont want to disappoint you, but its very unlikely to happen, seeing HTC's policy about the side switching. Your asking for a bit much, i think, even though i almost can agree with you, i would be more than happy with a 6 or 3 hours time limit when switching to the low numbers side and 12 hours to the side with the highest population.
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+1, I don't like being stuck on the side with nothing to do for 12 hours while a fight is blazing away on the other side of the map. The 12 hour rule is one of 2 things that make me contemplate quitting AH2 for good. The other being lazer guided puffy ack. :bhead
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Why did one hour work back when we had two LWMA? What dynamic was different enough for Hitech to not apply his previous lens of experience from a single arena perspective to the split arenas?
One repeated observation was each arena had a dominate country hoard during prime time. So switching at 60min would keep the "switch at will" group busy acting as hoard predators. Any calculated dweebery because you could switch at 60min was swallowed up in the over all state of dweebery generated by the hoard mentality. The hoards during the split arenas tended to be the dominating play style aspect of each arena. You might say the split arenas became country defined each night based on numbers, country loyalty, and players who would switch to be with the winning side. In that environment side switching altruism to the low number sides was easy, because we had a real problem with player hoards during prime time. Back then we hated hoards so much a new AH term entered the lexicon "vTards".
By the late night taper off, one arena ended up with a furball, and the other with individual milk runs. I guess that was some of the reason to generate a single arena for late night just before we were moved back to a single full time LWMA. An interesting consideration. During the off peak time, there was never any whining in this forum about side switching dweebery due to the 60min limit. Some grumbling from the furball about player IDxyz or players A,B,C jumping countries to be with friends on the other side of the furball. Which wasn't always a side balancing move. With the 60min rule, sometimes that made the furball taper off rapidly due to turning it into a sudden kester whacking for one side at the hands of a group of "friends" who just wanted to fly together. For a furball, 60min is a life time to get a kester whacking at every upping. Not everyone in the world pays to play games just to get a kester whacking. They can spend 8 hours every day with their boss. But, I guess 60min later the "friends" went oopsies, some of us better jump back, our furball is leaving the building.....
The last act is a truer definition of altruism. The jumping to be with friends to slaughter an out-group is normal human behavior. Switching sides to the low numbers for the target rich environment is simple self interest. Altruism presupposes giving up something to another for a future gain. For most of us, only to a member of our in-group. Like friends in the face of a dwindling furball switching back to keep up numbers for their friends and themselves to continue enjoying the group fun. The 12 hour rule begins to make some sense if Hitech is thinking in terms of the whole player population's fun versus the wants of small groups and individuals.
Move forward to our current situation of a single LWMA. Do most of the players advocating for quicker switching play during the off peak hours when 90 players disappear into 20x20 sectors? Or do they want quicker switching all the time? The arena no longer experiences hoards like we did when that kind of game play helped promote a second LWMA arena and the word "vTard". If it is the first scenario, advocating for a new progressive time scale mechanism to enhance the larger player population's fun during off hours has merit.
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-1 no,if its not broke don't fix it
shhh... this is adult talkie.... go play...
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At the least, let if we want to switch earlier than the 12 hour rule then let us spend our perks to switch early. I've got tens of thousands of perks just waiting to be wasted, let us spend our perks on switching early.
ack-ack
this might work.... I don't mind spending perks for a fight...
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So far over the years since the LWMA was returned to a single arena and 60min was returned to 12 hours. Here are the major ideas to achieve side switching at shorter intervals.
1. - Side switch at will to the lowest number side.
2. - Side switch at will to the lowest number side for free, heavy perk cost to the higher number side at will.
3. - Perk incentive for switching to the low number side at will.
4. - Side switch to the low number side at every 60min versus high number side at 2hr-12hr. Variations on this theme.
5. - Progressive time scale based on arena population similar to ENY. Even include perk cost penalty during higher population periods.
6. - Switch at will or 60min.
Except for (6.), you can game the others under the right conditions by them being tied to population.
A.) The only benefit given by players for short period side switching: "It will make 'me' happy.", nothing about benefiting the arena population and their diverse other motivations for playing the game.
B.) The reasons for Hitech choosing 12hrs for the single LWMA: I think the audience is smart enough to know why, or extrapolate the reasons but, doesn't care.
So what do you expect Hitech to think or even say? If he answers, you will dance the bleeding edge of the flame against him until he locks the post or bans someone. Kind of like the teen offering to his dad, if he can use the Ferrari to take his date to the prom. He won't do over 65 on the highway. And how many other kinds of roads and surface streets are there between the teens home and the prom?
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seems to me hordelets are typically country-loyal so I doubt they would switch to join another horde.
It's not a lot but I have seen a few do it.
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So what do you expect Hitech to think or even say?
Nothing to say or think. I expect him to actually DO something what he has been asked for.
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That raises this discussion to another level.
Does Hitech know what's best for his game, or do the players?
They will just find another game if their ideas are wrong, while Hitech has to close his doors and lay off his staff. $14.95 is not much skin in the game to grant the privilege of demanding an outcome from Hitech. Most companies go through thousands of ideas a year and produce very few of which very few are winners. Who then does Hitech want to bet on for his future?
The Wishlist is a very honest and painful representation of that process. Hitech's experience has to mean something in terms of picking winners from the wishes. Or is there more the wisher can do to sell the wish as a benefit to the game as a whole, rather than as a selfish consumer want? In most cases what an individual wants is limited as a reflection of their tiny facet of a perception of the whole game. Gee...it would be nice if I could drop a nuke.
Hitech has to weigh wishes against his seeing the game as all of it's facets. Or his experience with how unintended consequences work with his creation. 99% of wishes I've ever read in this forum come with no analysis of the potential consequences. Why is it Hitech's job to debug the consequences if most players have no interest in attempting the task to start with? The often repeated excuse and grouse is: it's a whishlist and it's my wish. What kind of a sales pitch is that to a veteran game programmer?
The customer is never right when it comes to what's best for the longevity of a company. They only consume in their self interest and as conveniently as they can. Otherwise in business schools you would be taught to do anything the customer wishes for as the solution to keeping your company viable. As often as technology is trying to fill a need, companies are also leading customers by their greed in new directions favorable to the future of the company or evolving a profitable technology. Appealing to the brain's natural attraction for nuance and ambiguous stimulation. Outside of business, government, and Military environments. Who needs more than a handheld miniature radio phone to make voice calls? Look how consumers line up like zombies now over the latest and greatest miniaturized laptop with a radio frequency chip, Bluetooth and WiFi. Errr...smartphone.
Where do you fit into this equation? Do you own the company, do you produce the product, or do you consume the product?
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Does Hitech know what's best for his game, or do the players?
I know what is good for me. This might sound selfish, but im not alone with this idea - see the bazillion of threads about it in the past.
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good to see Bustr is still full of hot air. :lol :D
over the last 4 years since i've been here, 2 things happened so often that if they weren't the primary reasons, they surely contributed to the current side switch time, "we haz spyiezzz!!!" whines begging Hitech to do something and whines about low life basement dwellers switching to whatever side was close to winning the map, then hording the last 1 or 2 bases for the win, all so they could get the bonus perks.
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That raises this discussion to another level.
Does Hitech know what's best for his game, or do the players?
They will just find another game if their ideas are wrong, while Hitech has to close his doors and lay off his staff. $14.95 is not much skin in the game to grant the privilege of demanding an outcome from Hitech. Most companies go through thousands of ideas a year and produce very few of which very few are winners. Who then does Hitech want to bet on for his future?
The Wishlist is a very honest and painful representation of that process. Hitech's experience has to mean something in terms of picking winners from the wishes. Or is there more the wisher can do to sell the wish as a benefit to the game as a whole, rather than as a selfish consumer want? In most cases what an individual wants is limited as a reflection of their tiny facet of a perception of the whole game. Gee...it would be nice if I could drop a nuke.
Hitech has to weigh wishes against his seeing the game as all of it's facets. Or his experience with how unintended consequences work with his creation. 99% of wishes I've ever read in this forum come with no analysis of the potential consequences. Why is it Hitech's job to debug the consequences if most players have no interest in attempting the task to start with? The often repeated excuse and grouse is: it's a whishlist and it's my wish. What kind of a sales pitch is that to a veteran game programmer?
The customer is never right when it comes to what's best for the longevity of a company. They only consume in their self interest and as conveniently as they can. Otherwise in business schools you would be taught to do anything the customer wishes for as the solution to keeping your company viable. As often as technology is trying to fill a need, companies are also leading customers by their greed in new directions favorable to the future of the company or evolving a profitable technology. Appealing to the brain's natural attraction for nuance and ambiguous stimulation. Outside of business, government, and Military environments. Who needs more than a handheld miniature radio phone to make voice calls? Look how consumers line up like zombies now over the latest and greatest miniaturized laptop with a radio frequency chip, Bluetooth and WiFi. Errr...smartphone.
Where do you fit into this equation? Do you own the company, do you produce the product, or do you consume the product?
Bustr at some point there has to be changes. Take a look at numbers on during off peak hours. With low numbers it is often impossible to find a fight. Numbers are so low few in the DA off peak either. If there is no option to have a fight more will quit don't you think ? Some of the requests I see on this board are dumb in the extreme. Some are well thought out requests that will improve the game. Maybe HT has made his pile and is ready to retire or move on. Where do you see this game in 5 years if there are no changes?
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WHO CARES this wish has been asked for a 100 time it'll switch's when hitech decides it will. Are we there yet :rolleyes:
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"The customer is never right when it comes to what's best for the longevity of a company."
Isn't that somewhat like the US automobile philosophy in the 70's and 80's ? Did it work for Detroit? Did it hurt or help Detroit and US auto makers ? They did not give the consumer what they wanted. I remember my dad buying a Datsun 51o wagon in 1971. I remember going up mountains on cross country trips and watching the brand new US cars chugging and over heating as we buzzed by them in that wagon with hemi head and a side draft carb. He got 30 mpg it was reliable and well made. It was passed down to my sister then me and died only when i wrecked it.
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I'll admit that I haven't read this whole thread. But, from what I remember, when the LW was split into two, that's when the 1-hour side switch was implemented. I think it was to make it easier for players to jump from one arena to the other and link up with their squads. When LW was once again put back to just one arena, they still had the 1-hour switch times. Then it was changed to 12 hours, and what I remember seeing is "that's the way it was before the split, and we forgot to change it back".
Perhaps HTC could try this for a week or two:
Come to work in the morning and change the arena flag to 1-hour side switching. Just before leaving for the day, change it back to 12 hours.
Would that help the off-peak non-US players? I don't know.
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Some are well thought out requests that will improve the game.
...In your opinion. I bet our lists of the well thought out requests would not match exactly, neither would anybody else's.
Obviously there's some reason for it we don't acknowledge as a problem. If I could figure out what it was, I'd post it. At some point, I've seen spiez flat out denied as the reason for it. The closest thing to an answer I've ever seen was something about 'rapid population swings'. It doesn't make much sense to me because the vast majority of the game population wears their chesspiece underoos and wouldn't dream of switching.
It is truly baffling to me why it's there, but HT generally doesn't do stuff just to mess with people that I've seen. I may not agree with their reasons when they've posted about things on here, but at least there was some kind of logic to it. The switch time thing seems to be the exception.
Wiley.
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"The customer is never right when it comes to what's best for the longevity of a company."
Isn't that somewhat like the US automobile philosophy in the 70's and 80's ? Did it work for Detroit? Did it hurt or help Detroit and US auto makers ? They did not give the consumer what they wanted. I remember my dad buying a Datsun 51o wagon in 1971. I remember going up mountains on cross country trips and watching the brand new US cars chugging and over heating as we buzzed by them in that wagon with hemi head and a side draft carb. He got 30 mpg it was reliable and well made. It was passed down to my sister then me and died only when i wrecked it.
:rofl :lol :rofl :lol ya, "the customers" didn't want gas guzzling 300+ cid v8s and 200hp straight 6s. in 1971 the only 4 cylinder you didn't have to give away was a volkswagon beetle. and that little datsun 510 wagon wasn't capable of pulling a clown on a bicycle over rabbit ears pass without dropping down to 1st gear.
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Bustr at some point there has to be changes. Take a look at numbers on during off peak hours. With low numbers it is often impossible to find a fight. Numbers are so low few in the DA off peak either. If there is no option to have a fight more will quit don't you think ? Some of the requests I see on this board are dumb in the extreme. Some are well thought out requests that will improve the game. Maybe HT has made his pile and is ready to retire or move on. Where do you see this game in 5 years if there are no changes?
the same thing was said back when it was an hour switch time. the biggest complain about playing late at night has always been the "lack of fights".
but why cant you guys who "are always looking" for fights ask each other on 200. I am pretty sure that not all of you guys are stuck in the same side.
semp
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SOUNDS LIKE SOMEONE WANTS TO BE ON THE HORDE SIDE ALL DAY LONG! :neener:\
How about a wish for only two teams instead of three?
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SOUNDS LIKE SOMEONE WANTS TO BE ON THE HORDE SIDE ALL DAY LONG! :neener:\
How about a wish for only two teams instead of three?
you dont play much do you? go to the ava, only two teams there.
semp
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At the least, let if we want to switch earlier than the 12 hour rule then let us spend our perks to switch early. I've got tens of thousands of perks just waiting to be wasted, let us spend our perks on switching early.
ack-ack
Genius!
:aok
JUGgler
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Everyone lineup time to gangbang the muppets..
(http://web29.streamhoster.com/getchit/muppets.jpg)
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The wish list is here for a reason. Knowing what your customers want is vital to any business. If there are 3000 subscribers that means 3000 different views of what would make the game perfect but there are plenty of things many or most of would agree on even if their overall lists are different.
Businesses thrive when what people want, and will pay for, lines up with what makes good business sense. Our job is to ask for what we want, throw it through the meat grinder of debate and put it on the shelf for HTC to see. Its up to HTC to judge it's merits, weigh the cost vs benefit, and try and guess the unintended consequences.
I spend zero time worrying about HTC. I want them to succeed but I have no way of knowing their idea of what success is, their goals, what resources they have, etc, etc. The best thing we can do is exactly what we are doing. Ask for what we want and comment on what others ask for. Some great changes come from player ideas but it means sorting through a bunch of poor ones.
I don't expect them to grant this or any other wish. I can't know all the factors that they consider when deciding the future of the game and their business.
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If 80% or more of the game population was ignorant of the side switching time limit during the two LWMA era. And then was ignorant that it was changed back to 12hrs. What scenario of human nature is Hitech protecting the arena from with 12hrs? Unless ultimately that is the very scenario which is felt lacking to maintain interest in the game by some players. Another variation of tyranny by a minority.
The best and worst thing about playing in the MA is organized groups of players. It's always more fun to terrorize the arena in the company of friends and equals until you force everyone in a sector to move to another front to change their personal odds of doing the pain stick smacking on someone else. Yes, some people actually pay $14.95 expecting to be able to dish out some pain without having to live in the game forever or the DA. If that basic expectation isn't met by Hitech. How many of you are willing to pony up $30.00 or $40.00 a month for what you are getting now with fewer players around? Many Americans can barely fill their gas tank these days.
An unintended consequence can be as simple as helping potential new sources of revenue choose War Thunder. After 13 years, for some reason we don't see the LWMA separated by skill or "class" into some variation of AW's RR and FR arenas. Instead we see specialty arenas catering to switch at will. The MA is a meritocracy for the most part. 12hrs is a mechanism to give people the ability to get away from loosing every time they turn around by being followed from one hot spot to another all night long.
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Genius!
:aok
JUGgler
hey genius, play the game first, then come and tell everybody how it should be played.
semp
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I haven't translated Bustr in a while, so I might be wrong, but is he saying the mythical and unbeatable AH 20%'ers are going to follow him around all the time and beat him to a pulp, so shortening the time limit means he can't switch fronts often enough to hide from them?
Did I read that right?
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hey genius, play the game first, then come and tell everybody how it should be played.
semp
I thought I scraped you off on the bathroom wall?
JUGgler
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I thought I scraped you off on the bathroom wall?
JUGgler
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl looks like you missed something...
(http://1000funnypictures.com/wp-content/uploads/Toilet-Paper-Stuck-In-Pants-WTF-Pictures.jpg)
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I haven't translated Bustr in a while,...
Did I read that right?
Hold on buddy, I have a Bustr plugin for BableFish:-
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/BustrFish_zps7361bf7f.jpg) (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/rwrk2/media/BustrFish_zps7361bf7f.jpg.html)
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Hold on buddy, I have a Bustr plugin for BableFish:-
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/BustrFish_zps7361bf7f.jpg) (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/rwrk2/media/BustrFish_zps7361bf7f.jpg.html)
:rofl :aok
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I had a dream last night that the timer was reduced to 5 hours. I was so happy, but then I woke up and was sad again. :(
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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+1 :aok
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So why can't you geniuses get Hitech to buy your sales pitch for changing the time period?
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So why can't you geniuses get Hitech to buy your sales pitch for changing the time period?
because he gets confused reading your proliferation of rhetoric... :lol
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What's the matter? No sales pitch of your own to Hitech?
Seems the pitch for changing 12hrs has stalled. Aren't you gents the best this forum has to offer in all things Aces High? It's on your shoulders to sell Hitech on changing the time interval, not mine. Attacking me is kind of lame, other than tacit admission of no rational argument. The country change time limit is still "12 hours". Anything else is meaningless if that number stays at 12 hours.
Who knows. Even if Hitech is glacial in his changes to the game. Maybe he will change his mind.
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What's the matter? No sales pitch of your own to Hitech?
Seems the pitch for changing 12hrs has stalled. Aren't you gents the best this forum has to offer in all things Aces High? It's on your shoulders to sell Hitech on changing the time interval, not mine. Attacking me is kind of lame, other than tacit admission of no rational argument. The country change time limit is still "12 hours". Anything else is meaningless if that number stays at 12 hours.
Who knows. Even if Hitech is glacial in his changes to the game. Maybe he will change his mind.
Personally I find it hard to have a discussion with Hitech about the side switch times if he is not here working the other side of the conversation. Everything posted on the boards other than "That's the way it was before the arena split and we forgot to switch it back" is all speculation. Other than that one line I don't remember Hitech or any one else from HTC saying why they have it set at 12 hours.
If no one knows "why" it's at 12 hours you can not have a discussion about it. It's all story telling until facts are revealed. What ever the reason is that Hitech has it set for 12 hours hasn't been address and so is still the reason why it is as it is.
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:rofl :lol :rofl :lol ya, "the customers" didn't want gas guzzling 300+ cid v8s and 200hp straight 6s. in 1971 the only 4 cylinder you didn't have to give away was a volkswagon beetle. and that little datsun 510 wagon wasn't capable of pulling a clown on a bicycle over rabbit ears pass without dropping down to 1st gear.
Usually you are pretty knowledgeable but you are all wet here. The year was wrong my dad told me it was a 72 . Just to keep some egg off your face let's compare it to a Camaro. My dads <as he was quick to point out to me> had twin side draft hitachi carbs that required high octane gas produced 109 hp. It also was a product of the prince engine company. It shared a lot with Mercedes Benz especially the valve train . Your in line 6 from the Camaro sure out stripped it. With a whole additional horse . 110 to 109 in favor of Camaro. The 307 in most produced version of Camaro that year a monster 130 hp. The 510 is a favorite of rally drivers to this day , for a few years it out sold Beetles. Want to compare hp between it and mid to late 70's Camaro's ? You know the kind I used to just demolish stop light to stop light ? Shall we compare an apple to an apple now ? A US built station wagon to the 510 ? Shall we take a look at a few of the problems with Detroits business model ? Like planned obsolescence ? Shoddy quality control ? The fact they had to scrap a butt load of Camaro's that year because the bumpers did not meet federal safety standards ? Let's limit the number of flaws though please. Seen the price of homes in Detroit lately ? I am not saying that HTC has Detroit mentality. That being said the years, yes "years" long struggle I had getting a bug fixed in FFB is an indication that some of it may be there. FFB in game is a little better than rumble effects on game consoles now. Almost every one that uses FFB wants more for their $179.40 a year. FFB is looked on as a gimmick so will it be improved ? Who knows. Unbalanced sides in off peak hours is a real problem. Will it be fixed ? Who knows. As my reply stated completely disregarding your customer bases wants <as was suggested by the person I was replying to> has shown to lead to business failure in the past. Do you think that HTC will receive the same help from the feds as say GM did ?
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Usually you are pretty knowledgeable but you are all wet here. The year was wrong my dad told me it was a 72 . Just to keep some egg off your face let's compare it to a Camaro. My dads <as he was quick to point out to me> had twin side draft hitachi carbs that required high octane gas produced 109 hp. It also was a product of the prince engine company. It shared a lot with Mercedes Benz especially the valve train . Your in line 6 from the Camaro sure out stripped it. With a whole additional horse . 110 to 109 in favor of Camaro. The 307 in most produced version of Camaro that year a monster 130 hp. The 510 is a favorite of rally drivers to this day , for a few years it out sold Beetles. Want to compare hp between it and mid to late 70's Camaro's ? You know the kind I used to just demolish stop light to stop light ? Shall we compare an apple to an apple now ? A US built station wagon to the 510 ? Shall we take a look at a few of the problems with Detroits business model ? Like planned obsolescence ? Shoddy quality control ? The fact they had to scrap a butt load of Camaro's that year because the bumpers did not meet federal safety standards ? Let's limit the number of flaws though please.
i'm very familiar with 70s datsuns, as well as fords, chevys and dodges. unless your dads 510 wagon was a deluxe version, the basic standard factory L16 engine produced a whopping 97hp. the chevy 6 cylinder used in low end station wagons and some "budget" sedans, was rated at 155hp, not 110. the 1972 307 chevy chevelle motor managed a timid 200hp. if you want we can compare my ford 390 or 428 cobrajet to that puny souped up datsun 4 cylinder, for that matter i'd stack my old 350hp chevy 327 against it. fact is until 1976/77 when gas prices went above $1 a gallon which caused a lifestyle change in the u.s., gas guzzling detroit built land yachts were "what the customers wanted".
as far "planned obsolescence", that was a u.s. engineering/manufacturing standard from the late 60s, from automobiles to electronics. it was intentional and from what i was told in 1975 after asking an electrical engineer why the tubes in our expensive television blew on what appeared to be a regular interval, it was to maintain some state of economic growth. always puzzled me that if the capacity to create things that lasted until nature made them unfit for use existed, why the hell wouldn't they make stuff to last that long. i thought it was and is as ridiculous as you do.
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i'm very familiar with 70s datsuns, as well as fords, chevys and dodges. unless your dads 510 wagon was a deluxe version, the basic standard factory L16 engine produced a whopping 97hp. the chevy 6 cylinder used in low end station wagons and some "budget" sedans, was rated at 155hp, not 110. the 1972 307 chevy chevelle motor managed a timid 200hp. if you want we can compare my ford 390 or 428 cobrajet to that puny souped up datsun 4 cylinder, for that matter i'd stack my old 350hp chevy 327 against it. fact is until 1976/77 when gas prices went above $1 a gallon which caused a lifestyle change in the u.s., gas guzzling detroit built land yachts were "what the customers wanted".
as far "planned obsolescence", that was a u.s. engineering/manufacturing standard from the late 60s, from automobiles to electronics. it was intentional and from what i was told in 1975 after asking an electrical engineer why the tubes in our expensive television blew on what appeared to be a regular interval, it was to maintain some state of economic growth. always puzzled me that if the capacity to create things that lasted until nature made them unfit for use existed, why the hell wouldn't they make stuff to last that long. i thought it was and is as ridiculous as you do.
Would like to see your sources for your figures on I6 GM engines for other than the Chevelle . The straight 6 that was used the most in GM products was the L22 I6 at 250 cubic inches . Everything I can find lists this at 110 hp. That is using net hp. With the side draft not top draft carb it could be no other than the deluxe 510 wagon. I am not kidding about it smoking the mid to late 70's Camaro's light to light . This was the favored car of the kids that had daddy buy them a car where I lived. My first car was a far from stock 69 Mustang fastback. It had a 390 with a Doug Nash 5 speed and a Dana rear end. I bought it from a friend of my uncles in Joplin Mo. 11 months before I turned 16. So I would not be interested in comparing big block fords
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i may have been looking at the wrong 6 cyl engine model. http://www.gearheadgeek.com/ghgj/index.php/49-54-data/general-chevy-data/chevy-straight-6-data?start=3 (http://www.gearheadgeek.com/ghgj/index.php/49-54-data/general-chevy-data/chevy-straight-6-data?start=3) shows the L22 was prevalent in the 78 camaro where the stroked 250cid 155hp was used in camaro years 68-79. and this shows the same stroked 250cid 155hp in the same model year camaros http://www.hotsixes.com/chevy-inline-6/ (http://www.hotsixes.com/chevy-inline-6/). i was never a fan of the small block gm motors because they were a royal pain in the butt to track from year to year. the 327 i had was a typical example. every time i wanted to pop performance parts on it, i had to cross reference to the engine block number. i had one guy in grand junction try to tell me there was no way that my 67 camaro rs came factory with the motor. unfortunately he was the only guy in the area that had the parts i wanted. only reason i distinctly remember that is because it was the time i lost my wallet and got my donut smoked in a $50 race against a modified chevy vega. didn't know he had a modded vette drive train in the thing.
lol, did your dad know you were drag racing his 510 wagon?
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i may have been looking at the wrong 6 cyl engine model. http://www.gearheadgeek.com/ghgj/index.php/49-54-data/general-chevy-data/chevy-straight-6-data?start=3 (http://www.gearheadgeek.com/ghgj/index.php/49-54-data/general-chevy-data/chevy-straight-6-data?start=3) shows the L22 was prevalent in the 78 camaro where the stroked 250cid 155hp was used in camaro years 68-79. and this shows the same stroked 250cid 155hp in the same model year camaros http://www.hotsixes.com/chevy-inline-6/ (http://www.hotsixes.com/chevy-inline-6/). i was never a fan of the small block gm motors because they were a royal pain in the butt to track from year to year. the 327 i had was a typical example. every time i wanted to pop performance parts on it, i had to cross reference to the engine block number. i had one guy in grand junction try to tell me there was no way that my 67 camaro rs came factory with the motor. unfortunately he was the only guy in the area that had the parts i wanted. only reason i distinctly remember that is because it was the time i lost my wallet and got my donut smoked in a $50 race against a modified chevy vega. didn't know he had a modded vette drive train in the thing.
lol, did your dad know you were drag racing his 510 wagon?
It wasn't his by then. I can assure you he never knew a thing about any racing I ever did. He made all of us kids buy our own cars, yet felt no compunction what so ever about taking them like he had bought them when he felt discipline was needed <sucks sometimes being the son of a career NCO> lol. My sister had driven it a little while then sold it to me for a years worth of lawn work. I needed something that got better gas mileage than my Mustang did. Gas was hovering around .80 a gallon then. He had moved on to one of the first Maxima's by then. One of the funniest things was me and my buddy had grabbed an old wood stove to put in his shop. We were using the 510 to take it up to his grannies place. We ran across a couple of the preppie boys that had daddy buy their cars for them. These boys loved those gutless Camaros from the late 70's. Delighted to see we were in neither my Mustang or his Charger. They were just cracking up at my cancer riddled 510 <three years on Guam will do that>. They made the usual invite to go light to light. I responded. They really started laughing.The light went green. I ran it up let her go. The shocks that had seen much better days responded as you can imagine. The tires started spinning. The wood stove slammed into the floor of the cargo area and she grabbed tight and gave a hole launch that cracked us up even before we whizzed by the momentary lead that the Camaro had.Gone in an instant was the lead he got from an automatic transmission in a car that had to be power braked to light em up. I shot ahead better than a car length. By the time his displacement was starting to get the better of my 11 year old car it was time to brake for the next set of lights.Me and my best bud were dam near crying. I thought I could laugh no harder . About that time the Camaro catches up we look over and I knew instantly I was wrong . The look on the face of those two proved beyond a doubt I could laugh much harder. The price of the 510 a years labor at something I detested. Price of gas close to .80 cents a gallon. The look on privileged youth as they get beat by an 11 year old rice burning wagon...priceless! I will tell you if you want to hear about it sometime. About a primitive form of drifting we engaged in we called slideways racing. Basically it was drifting only using Oregon logging roads instead of the streets of Tokyo . The 510 excelled at that, though it did lead to it's ultimate demise.
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So why can't you geniuses get Hitech to buy your sales pitch for changing the time period?
Because no-one has demanded it with their wallet ! :aok
You see everyone likes the game and will still tolerate some crap they don't like. If everyone who wished it changed would xcell their sub for 2 months on the grounds of side switching times, it would change immediately ;)
JUGgler
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Because no-one has demanded it with their wallet ! :aok
You see everyone likes the game and will still tolerate some crap they don't like. If everyone who wished it changed would xcell their sub for 2 months on the grounds of side switching times, it would change immediately ;)
JUGgler
reminds me of that kid a few years ago that demanded a per day rate to play or him and his friends were gonna quit.
he quit.
semp
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2:23 am pacific 16 people online . No there is no frustration in this community. Guncrasher, bustr just keep up the cheering section. It will be fine .
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2:23 am pacific 16 people online . No there is no frustration in this community. Guncrasher, bustr just keep up the cheering section. It will be fine .
:headscratch: dude, you should be asleep. or are you trying to play at work?
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Last I heard it went from 1 hr to 12 hours because of a certain player or players were abusing it for example certain player switching sides just to kill cv's was warned then got banned for a period ect.
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:headscratch: dude, you should be asleep. or are you trying to play at work?
this is about the time I get to play...although it isn't 2 in the morning here.....sad for me....the worst part about it though...half of them won't be in flight...and there will be ENY leveling in place hahahah