Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: NatCigg on October 28, 2013, 05:16:02 PM
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A very intersting documentary about TWA 800 is out on Netflix. Testimonials are from actual investigators and eyewitnesses. The now retired NTSB investigators have an open petition to reopen the case. A must see imo.
The movie is titled "TWA Flight 800"
with membership you can see it here http://www.epixhd.com/twa-flight-800/ or on Netflix
Free info and news stories can be found here http://flight800doc.com/
:salute
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loose change is still up in youtube, plus several remakes. they make as much sense as the missile theory.
semp
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loose change? are you kidding? you must be. :rolleyes:
this is about TWA 800. Watch the Movie. The people involved were part of the investigation. Not some nut job who stacks coincidences together like sheets of paper.
Investigators saw evidence, then had it taken away. Witnesses being told to be quiet. fabricated conclusions. unexplainable propaganda. this one has it all. you should check it out.
:salute
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I smelled something wrong at the time. You just had to many Legit people see the missile streaking up towards the airplane.
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several hundred "legit" people reported seeing a ufo in phoenix once too...just sayin.
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Can't buy the military mistake theory. What is the likelihood that not one of those military personnel talked about it- under orders at the time or not?
If anything there was a person on board that plane that someone wanted dead no matter what... or there was a fuel tank explosion, <- still think that is what happened.
NwBie
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loose change is still up in youtube, plus several remakes. they make as much sense as the missile theory.
semp
I think I'll put more faith in the actual investigators opinions than semp from Aces High.
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I think I'll put more faith in the actual investigators opinions than semp from Aces High.
well most of the investigators said it was a center fuel explosion.
semp
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well most of the investigators said it was a center fuel explosion.
semp
Have you watched this particular documentary?
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Have you watched this particular documentary?
yes last night. I also watched loose change. both seem very legit in providing info on giving a different theory. all behind conspiracy theories. I have also watched the video how the sandy hook shooting was a fake. have seen the rainbow conspiracy and so many others. they're entertaining but give no proof whatsoever.
unless of course you are talking about the lights over phoenix like somebody else mentioned, now those I do believe they're ufo's.
semp
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yes last night. I also watched loose change. both seem very legit in providing info on giving a different theory. all behind conspiracy theories. I have also watched the video how the sandy hook shooting was a fake. have seen the rainbow conspiracy and so many others. they're entertaining but give no proof whatsoever.
unless of course you are talking about the lights over phoenix like somebody else mentioned, now those I do believe they're ufo's.
semp
You'll make a good slave.
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You'll make a good slave.
oh, like I havent read that conspiracy theory. really hate to tell you but you are already a slave.
semp
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oh, like I havent read that conspiracy theory. really hate to tell you but you are already a slave.
semp
yup pretty much, there is nothing you can truly own within the borders of the country that cannot be taken by federal edict.
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(http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003499799/262326544_conspiracy_answer_2_xlarge.jpeg)
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well most of the investigators said it was a center fuel explosion.
semp
No actually they dont. What they say was the investigation was obstructed, Lied about, and steered toward a particular outcome.
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The truth should be known. you cant say that hundreds of people that saw something did not see anything.
They never found a shorted wire or "cause". Its been reported that the supposed part in question was found and was functional, not shorted. Also, the fuel was said to be similar to diesel in that it was not that reactive and would of taken a lot of power to ignite. This being a main reason a midair exposion with this fuel has never happened before or since the accident. Boeing, what do you think? is there a chance that one of your 747s could spontaneously blow up because you are running voltage through your fuel tanks?
Where was all the explosive residue coming from? Why was it in the center wing tank? why do they see molten metal splattered inside the fuel tanks that forms a pattern that crosses all fractures?
A lot of common sense is being ignored here.
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A lot of common sense is being ignored here.
Yeah like motive.
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Yeah like motive.
don't really need a motive. could have been a military "accident". with some cameras, a little money and a script a person could make a really nice conspiracy.
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don't really need a motive. could have been a military "accident". with some cameras, a little money and a script a person could make a really nice conspiracy.
Don't mind the eyewitnesses, investigators opinions, or physical evidence.
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"A missile exploding a distance above the left wing is consistent with the radar evidence, the hole described above in Bott’s report, and the observations of many eyewitnesses including Major Fred Meyer, a former helicopter rescue pilot in Vietnam who was flying a mission for the NY Air National Guard in a Black Hawk helicopter nearby at the time. Major Meyer and his crew were first to arrive at the crash site for search and rescue. Both Major Meyer and his co-pilot Captain Chris Baur believe a missile caused the crash."
I wonder what the two pilots testimony says? :headscratch:
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Don't mind the eyewitnesses, investigators opinions, or physical evidence.
i have all day...roswell new mexico 1947, what really happened? july 23rd 1948 50 miles south of montgomery alabama, what really happened?
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A proper documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB1dUfVfoG4
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What I can't abide by such conspiracy "documentaries" is that they profit on the grief of others. They rip up old wounds and make the relatives live in perpetual uncertainty.
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i have all day...roswell new mexico 1947, what really happened? july 23rd 1948 50 miles south of montgomery alabama, what really happened?
What a master debater.
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What I can't abide by such conspiracy "documentaries" is that they profit on the grief of others. They rip up old wounds and make the relatives live in perpetual uncertainty.
Except that this one is disputed my many members of the investigative team, many eye witnesses who know their stuff, many who have no real personal stake in getting answers except for wanting to know the truth. If it were just the victims families it would be one thing and unlike many other "conspiracy" dramas nobody is in this one to make money.
There are hard truths that have never been answered. You want a motive, heres one http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-july-1988-shooting-down-of-iran-air-flight-655/5341463 I myself have always thought the terrorism angle was never properly explored.
A month after the crash, the London Times reported that senior Iranian sources claimed that three Stingers had been smuggled into the U.S. via Canada by an Egyptian group composed of followers of Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman, who was convicted of conspiring to bomb the World Trade Center in 1993. Later a Defense Intelligence Agency official knowledgeable about missile technology, who had assisted the FBI with its eyewitness interviews, told congressional staffers that he believed TWA 800 was hit by at least one manpad missile.
http://www.aim.org/media-monitor/sixty-minutes-ignores-twa-800/
We cant talk Politics here so let me phrase this properly. As a young airman in the MidEast back in the '70s, in an area rife with terrorist attacks against Americans, I noticed an utter lack of reporting on such incidents. Some of which happened to friends of mine. Turkey was an extremely important ally and the Turks did not want any news that would rock the boat in our relations. Ask them and they'd say "what terrorism"? Our own people werent eager to show their own failed foreign policies either.
Its much harder covering up a car bomb blowing up the basement of the WTC, or airplanes flying into them. Or bombs going off in subways or race finish lines. But I believe they would if they could. Just like they did in Benghazi with the election in the balance with one party strutting around saying they have won the war on terror. Western Democracies run on $$ and terrorism is bad for business. Its bad for the Kings and Queens and their resumes as well. Remember they only have to convince the 51% who would probably vote for them anyways, made easier by the media who was/is on their sides already. It was klinton in '96 right? And now we got this guy? Neither have been aggressively pursued by the media for answers.
So I avoided politics while making a point. I myself am not a conspiracy fan boy. I dont buy the books and i dont make blanket statements of disbelief. I want to see proof. In TWA 800 there is plenty and always has been. But I dont think this was a MANPAD missile. The evidence would point to a missile with far more range.
Just to many witnesses, legit people with experience in a lot of this stuff, saw what happened that night. what missile type shot down TWA-800. The half-dozen investigators whose charges will be fleshed out in a documentary set to air July 17 - the anniversary of the crash - say they were never allowed to get at the truth. But they are confident a missile brought down the plane.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/06/18/twa-flight-800-investigators-break-silence-in-new-documentary-claim-original/
We deserve answers from an independent panel.
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So you think about a dozen government agencies just agreed to cover it up? ... And did so successfully?
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So you think about a dozen government agencies just agreed to cover it up? ... And did so successfully?
wouldn't be the first time it has happened in this country...
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Really... How do you know?
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There wasnt a "couple dozen". There was one or two. Everyone else was locked out, including the agency who's main job is to investigate airline disasters. And one cant help but wonder why the CIA and NASA were involved at all. Most of all the CIA.
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So "about a dozen" becomes "couple dozen" when you read it...
What was "locked out" from the NTSB?
Wait... You don't understand why the CIA would be involved in the investigation of an airline disaster that potentially involved international terrorism?! Really?!
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Wait... You don't understand why the CIA would be involved in the investigation of an airline disaster that potentially involved international terrorism?! Really?!
that agency supposedly isn't allowed to operate within the borders of the u.s. in such investigations they are supposed to be consulted but not directly involved in any investigations taking place within the country. that responsibility is supposed to go to the fbi and nsa.
but ya never know what is happening where when it comes to spy agencies...
Really... How do you know?
eyes and ears open, mouth shut is generally a good way to learn things...and i don't believe in "tinfoil hat conspiracy theories".
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Are you and Rich46yo the same person? You two keep answering the questions meant for the other...
The CIA would of course be interested in anything related to international terrorism... That's their thing, not the FBI's.
As "tinfoil hat conspiracy theories" go, this one fits right in.
What do you guys really believe? Who fired the missile, from where, and what kind of missile was it? Do you think [insert favorite badguy] managed to smuggle a large SAM system into the USA? Do you think [insert favorite badguy] fired a SAM from a boat close to a USN training area? Do you think the USN shot TWA 800 down by mistake and that every government agency from the NTSB to the FBI and CIA scrambled to protect some USN officers arses?
It's a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory.
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Are you and Rich46yo the same person? You two keep answering the questions meant for the other...
rich wears a tinfoil hat...
(http://www.bloggingbroker.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/tinfoil_hat.jpg)
i have other methods...
(http://www3.nd.edu/~dlindley/handouts/MindMeld1.jpg)
The CIA would of course be interested in anything related to international terrorism... That's their thing, not the FBI's.
what did i say...you're not paying attention. the fact is, domestic issues are the domain of the fbi and in matters of national security the nsa. the cia is not supposed to operate within the borders of the country. prior to the implementation of the dhs, in issues of suspected international terrorist activities within the borders of the u.s., the cia would be consulted but weren't supposed to be directly involved in the investigations.
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This clown, and he has proven that, doesnt even live here and has no understanding of our laws or procedures, or anything in America for that matter, and he doesnt have the sense to shut his mouth and listen. That or just watch the damn documentary. Which answer the same questions he's asking.
Two people dont have to be the same person to know that in America the CIA is prevented, BY LAW, from investigations inside the borders when American citizens are involved. There was no reason for them to be involved other then the fact the FBI believed so strongly it was terrorism they asked for assistance. That or they needed an ally to support their bogus findings. It was a very unusual move because the two agencies dont often ask each other for anything. The FBI is fully capable and empowered to investigate foreign terrorism. They do it all the time you Dunderhead.
I dont claim to have any answers but for sure I have questions. One of which is why the hell a Norwegian is telling us whats what in our own country.
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but the clown does understand how money is made.
semp
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This clown, and he has proven that, doesnt even live here and has no understanding of our laws or procedures, or anything in America for that matter, and he doesnt have the sense to shut his mouth and listen. That or just watch the damn documentary. Which answer the same questions he's asking.
Two people dont have to be the same person to know that in America the CIA is prevented, BY LAW, from investigations inside the borders when American citizens are involved...
The CIA does operate within the US. They used to do quite a lot of spying on domestic groups and other things that came out under the Church Committee, which resulted in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. It dictates what the CIA can and can not do within the US. The CIA can get involved in anything related to international matters, but nothing purely domestic. I.e. they can wiretap, follow suspected foreign agents in the US, even if they are US citizens, and they can investigate international terrorism within the US.
The act has been watered down a lot over the years, especially with the Patriot Act and the Protect America Act. So now it's even easier for the CIA to do things like in the pre-Church days.
The fact that I, a non-US citizen, know this and you, a US-citizen, don't... should tell you who the clown is.
I dont claim to have any answers but for sure I have questions...
And that's what makes it a conspiracy theory, and a cruel one at that for the relatives of the victims that are left wondering.
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The CIA does operate within the US. They used to do quite a lot of spying on domestic groups and other things that came out under the Church Committee, which resulted in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. It dictates what the CIA can and can not do within the US. The CIA can get involved in anything related to international matters, but nothing purely domestic. I.e. they can wiretap, follow suspected foreign agents in the US, even if they are US citizens, and they can investigate international terrorism within the US.
The act has been watered down a lot over the years, especially with the Patriot Act and the Protect America Act. So now it's even easier for the CIA to do things like in the pre-Church days.
The fact that I, a non-US citizen, know this and you, a US-citizen, don't... should tell you who the clown is.
the fisa did not empower the agency to operate within the u.s. (didn't stop them either). the involvement is supposed to mean interagency cooperation within the u.s. borders, but the patriot act changed some things. to what extent the general public may never know. there is supposed to be some sort of oversight but, well, slap a national security stamp on it and all rules are off.
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Law rarely empower anyone; it usually just puts limitations on power.
From the horse's mouth itself:
"By law, the CIA is specifically prohibited from collecting foreign intelligence concerning the domestic activities of US citizens. Its mission is to collect information related to foreign intelligence and foreign counterintelligence. By direction of the president in Executive Order 12333 of 1981 and in accordance with procedures approved by the Attorney General, the CIA is restricted in the collection of intelligence information directed against US citizens. Collection is allowed only for an authorized intelligence purpose; for example, if there is a reason to believe that an individual is involved in espionage or international terrorist activities. The CIA's procedures require senior approval for any such collection that is allowed, and, depending on the collection technique employed, the sanction of the Director of National Intelligence and Attorney General may be required. These restrictions on the CIA have been in effect since the 1970s."
https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/faqs
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Law rarely empower anyone; it usually just puts limitations on power.
From the horse's mouth itself:
"By law, the CIA is specifically prohibited from collecting foreign intelligence concerning the domestic activities of US citizens. Its mission is to collect information related to foreign intelligence and foreign counterintelligence. By direction of the president in Executive Order 12333 of 1981 and in accordance with procedures approved by the Attorney General, the CIA is restricted in the collection of intelligence information directed against US citizens. Collection is allowed only for an authorized intelligence purpose; for example, if there is a reason to believe that an individual is involved in espionage or international terrorist activities. The CIA's procedures require senior approval for any such collection that is allowed, and, depending on the collection technique employed, the sanction of the Director of National Intelligence and Attorney General may be required. These restrictions on the CIA have been in effect since the 1970s."
https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/faqs
maybe where you live it works that way...here, the more power you have the more law you can get and vice versa. you would find an average joe doing life for dealing pot before you would see a kennedy serving that kind of time.
and since when do you believe what is written on a spy agency faq? get real man.
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The vast majority of laws do not state what you can do. They state what you cannot do. It's a legal principle and an essential freedom in democratic societies: "That Which Is Not Forbidden Is Permitted." So unless there are laws that expressly forbids or limits the CIA in doing certain things, then they can do so at will.
Do you really think the CIA is lying when they say they can operate within the US in cases of espionage and international terrorism? If they said they couldn't do it I would be inclined to agree with you.
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Just watched the film. It demonstrates that there is more evidence indicative of an external explosion than an exploding fuel tank ignited by faulty wiring. Terrorist use terrorism as a way to communicate and draw attention to their cause and demands, when possible I believe it would be beneficial to deny them that platform. Im sure other service members had experiences like that of Rich were they had knowledge of terrorism incidents that go unreported.
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Eye witness accounts are notoriously inaccurate.
The airliner that crashed in NYC shortly after 911 had witnesses saying there was flames coming from the a/c when in fact there was no flames.
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http://www.sandford.org/gandercrash/investigations/gander_paper/html/_cover_page.shtml
Lots of questions about the conclusions reached about the crash of ARROW AIR FLIGHT MF1285R that killed 246 American solders.