Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Nefarious on November 13, 2013, 08:04:48 PM
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The Frame 2 Allied Ace was Dantoo of 9 GIAP VVS RKKA
I-16 – Major Lev Shestakov was a veteran of the Spanish Civil War with at least 3 victories in that conflict. Later during the defense of Odessa in 1941 he shot down 3 aircraft and was awarded Hero of the Soviet Union in February 1942. The following July he was appointed CO of 9 GIAP, flying the LaGG-3 he was tasked with defending the skies over Stalingrad. Shestakov achieved 23 individual victories and 44 shared with 5 individual and 8 shared in the I-16 before he was killed January 1944.
Dantoo managed to claim 2 assists, but no Kills. He landed successfully.
The Frame 2 Axis Ace was Seighin of VF-17 "Jolly Rogers"
Bf 109E-4 – Nicloae Burileanu arrived at the Stalingrad front in early September 1942 and from there would go onto claim at least 10 victories against Soviet forces in the East. He flew the 109E-4 at Karpovka with the elite Romanian Grupul 7 Vanatoare and was surrounded after the Soviet offensive in November of 1942. Burileanu would survive the war and retire after 32 years of service flying over 50 different types of aircraft.
Seighin shot down a Yak-7B flown by TunesV of LCA and also claimed 3 assists. Seighin landed successfully.
The Stalingrad Airlift Objective
The Axis launched 40 He 111Hs. (8 UNDER MINIMUM - PENALTIES WILL BE ENFORCED IN FINAL SCORES)
20 were shot down or crashed before arriving or rearming at Pitomnik (A25).
20 rearmed or landed at Pitomnik (A25).
16 were shot down or crashed before returning to base at Rostov. (A71, A21, A22)
4 landed successfully at Rostov. (A71, A21, A22)
44 Tons of Food and Supplies were delivered.
48 Personnel were successfully evacuated.
125.4 Tons of Food and Supplies delivered so far.
240 Personnel were successfully evacuated so far
Pitomnik Defenders Objective
VF-17 and {The Gunfighters} were selected for the role of Pitomnik Defenders.
VF-17 "Jolly Rogers" launched 14 pilots. They shot down 6 Soviet Aircraft. 3 Aircraft were lost to enemy fire.
{The Gunfighters} launched 15 pilots. They shot down 14 Soviet. 7 Aircraft were lost to enemy fire.
The Defenders Objective after Frame 2 stands at Axis 50 - Allied 18.
ALLIED PILOTS: 148
AXIS PILOTS: 146
ALLIED KILLS: 68
AXIS KILLS: 108
ALLIED ASSISTS: 23
AXIS ASSISTS: 109
ALLIED DEATHS: 105
AXIS DEATHS: 60
The Allies destroyed 21 Objects.
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Just a reminder... to be mindful of penalties from violating MINS and MAX numbers on specified aircraft in the plane set. These numbers are chosen to help provide balance and game play, violating them could cause you to greatly influence both of these in a negative way and will be penalized by me.
Good luck in Frame 3 and I will see you at Pitomnik.
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:salute
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And the shortage of HE-111's wasn't the only issue. The AXIS also by my look at the Frame 2 logs:
Upped short 8 109E's
Upped short 8 110's
The effect was to have an additional 24 X 109G2's flying when they should have been other aircraft (HE-111's / 109E's and 110's). This greatly favored the AXIS and accounts for the lopsided fighter victories they had. And the amount of HE-111's that initially made it into A25.
Thanks for noting and taking action Nef will be interesting to see how you score this <S>
Viper61 ALLIED CIC
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Defended V97 against dozens of Yaks. KN was somewhat successful.
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And the shortage of HE-111's wasn't the only issue. The AXIS also by my look at the Frame 2 logs:
Upped short 8 109E's
Upped short 8 110's
The effect was to have an additional 24 X 109G2's flying when they should have been other aircraft (HE-111's / 109E's and 110's). This greatly favored the AXIS and accounts for the lopsided fighter victories they had. And the amount of HE-111's that initially made it into A25.
Thanks for noting and taking action Nef will be interesting to see how you score this <S>
Viper61 ALLIED CIC
what is it you're getting at Viper? i've looked at the logs and i don't see anything that could be construed as an intentional.
based on max possible squad commitment numbers, there were 24 109e-4s assigned which fits the minimum requirement. of the 4 squads that were assigned 109e-4s, none fielded their max numbers.
based on max possible squad commitment numbers, there were 25 110c-4bs assigned, which is over the minimum requirement. 2 squads were assigned and neither fielded the max numbers.
based on max possible squad commitment numbers, there were 51 he-111s assigned which is over the minimum requirement. of the 4 squads assigned he-111s, none fielded their max numbers.
there were 4 squads assigned the 109g-2 and they all fielded 10-15 pilots.
what is odd, is that kommando nowotny does not show up in the side assignments chart for either side, but they are registered and were assigned 109g-2s. they fielded 9 pilots.
unless someone wants to change a rule to force cic's to make their assignments of assets with minimum requirements based on minimum squad commitment numbers, there is always going to be some discrepancy.
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what is it you're getting at Viper? i've looked at the logs and i don't see anything that could be construed as an intentional.
based on max possible squad commitment numbers, there were 24 109e-4s assigned which fits the minimum requirement. of the 4 squads that were assigned 109e-4s, none fielded their max numbers.
based on max possible squad commitment numbers, there were 25 110c-4bs assigned, which is over the minimum requirement. 2 squads were assigned and neither fielded the max numbers.
based on max possible squad commitment numbers, there were 51 he-111s assigned which is over the minimum requirement. of the 4 squads assigned he-111s, none fielded their max numbers.
there were 4 squads assigned the 109g-2 and they all fielded 10-15 pilots.
what is odd, is that kommando nowotny does not show up in the side assignments chart for either side, but they are registered and were assigned 109g-2s. they fielded 9 pilots.
unless someone wants to change a rule to force cic's to make their assignments of assets with minimum requirements based on minimum squad commitment numbers, there is always going to be some discrepancy.
Agreed...where are you coming up with extra g-2's being used Vipe?
III/JG11 is a (16-21) squad at the moment...meaning we could launch as few as (14) He111's and still be within our accepted range.
In the event we launched (19) 111's...I can not complain about that turnout.
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My opinion is that when a minimum number of aircraft are needed, the CiC should use a squad's minumum to get enough planes in the air. Once the minumum for an aircraft type is reached in the arena, extra guys in those squads would then be able to up another aircraft type, as long as each squad is only flying two different aircraft.
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I agree with ImADot that using squads' minimums is good idea when trying to ensure a minimum for an aircraft type is reached, but did not think an "opinion" on meeting the minimums was needed. :)
Failure to meet mission objective for any reason -- poor planning or squads not keeping to their commitment levels or in their assigned rides -- would result in a penalty, and the penalty would be proportional to the perceived advantage.
Unfortunately, penalties only apply to the points and not to the "fun." It is one thing to have a guy not like his ride assignment and not show up to fly, then to show up and fly something other then his ride assignment. Hopefully none of that was going on because it would take stronger measures IMO than a "penalty" to fix.
:salute
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This is why I assign numbers the way I do. In KN, when we have CiC duty, we assign squads specific numbers of aircraft that have MAX and MIN attached to them. I always make sure to hit the MAX or the MIN on the dot or close to it. I also make sure the squad given an exact nmber of aircraft can easily field that number. I.E. JG 11 is sometimes a 11-15 squad. So I would give them 8 aircraft that has a MAX and the remainder in a non-MAX. This ensures that there are no penalties unless a CO miscalculates or has a severe drought in pilots on that night.
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Hey I crashed twice. That's BS
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Most times you can get within a plane or two of the required figure and it's not a problem for anybody. As long as it's clear that the CIC has made an adequate plan and there is no intention to deliberately warp the numbers then it's all good.
You can certainly get the situation where a squad completely fails to turn up. Nothing you can do about that as CIC.
You can get it so that a large 16-21 squad turns out with half their minimum. That hurts, but nothing you can do about that as CIC.
Rarely, you get it such that a squad does the wrong thing and blasts in with way over their maximum. Again nothing you can do as a CIC.
Squads have to remain aware of their responsibility to get their numbers right. If they have advance warning that it's going to be way out of kilter, they need to let someone know.
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The set up requires a "Min" turn out for a plane type you are required to hit that mark or take the penelity. The AXIS was way off the mark. There are several ways the CIC can ensure 100% that the "Min" is meant. Like commented twice the number needed. Or splitting up plane types 50/50 to a squad and not requiring a squad comment past 50% of it lowest turnout number. And Im sure there are other ways as well. Lastly the CIC can go around the towers and get a head count on his "Min" AC numbers as a last check. Squad CO's can report to the CIC there turn out especially if it going to be low so the CIC can do some last minute adjustments. Etc Etc Etc. Just making a plan and hoping for the best isn't a plan. Or more plainly "Hope" isn't a plan.
If you check the ALLIED logs for Frame 2 you will see that all of our "Min"s were meant. So it can be done and its easy to do.
If your the CIC and you plan a mission and the "Min"s arnt meant you deserve a penility. And the AXIS side should take a hard hit for it. Its the only way to enforce the rules. And if this had been the ALLIES I would chime exactly the same way.
In Frame 2 the AXIS had what amounted to 2 extra squads flying the best AC Fighter of the game (24 AC). That had a marked effect which changed the outcome of the frame.
The AXIS was short 8 bombers so the ALLIED sides was denied those kill point potential = 72 points
The AXIS was short 8 110's so the ALLIED side was denied those kill point potential = 32 points
And lastly how many "extra" kills did the AXIS side get because you had 16 extra 109G-2's and 8 X 109 drivers in G's and not E's. Hard to say.... and then the negative effect that would have had if the kills took place before the ALLIED fighters achieved their primary missions like Striking targets or hunting down bombers.
Intention to plan a good mission doesn't count. Either you did or didn't by the logs. The AXIS didn't. And because AXIS AC types and Min's were so far off I would hope a sizeable penelity is taken. Otherwise there wont be an incentive for future CIC's and planners to follow the set up rules. They will "Game the Game" and take the penility hit knowing that the outcome is better than the penility. Penilites should be in points and rated at 4 times the point value that was achieved or effected by. My opinion.
Not saying the AXIS CIC intentially planned a mission to Game the Game. Not at all. Im saying the plan violated the setup rules by a very wide margin. So take the hit and lets move on.
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And next time I'll try to hit the spell check button first before posting...... LOL
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Without a doubt the worst, least co-ordinated and fun FSO I've ever participated in. And the last.
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Don't ya all just love it when people write in here and complain about FSO and then write that they are NEVER going to play agian..... Like anyone really gives a CRAP. :rofl
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Don't ya all just love it when people write in here and complain about FSO and then write that they are NEVER going to play agian..... Like anyone really gives a CRAP. :rofl
And yours is the valued opinion?
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Don't ya all just love it when people write in here and complain about FSO and then write that they are NEVER going to play agian..... Like anyone really gives a CRAP. :rofl
If people are writing saying they will not participate further it might be indicative of a trend. Just sayin'. To each their own.
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The set up requires a "Min" turn out for a plane type you are required to hit that mark or take the penelity. The AXIS was way off the mark. There are several ways the CIC can ensure 100% that the "Min" is meant. Like commented twice the number needed. Or splitting up plane types 50/50 to a squad and not requiring a squad comment past 50% of it lowest turnout number. And Im sure there are other ways as well. Lastly the CIC can go around the towers and get a head count on his "Min" AC numbers as a last check. Squad CO's can report to the CIC there turn out especially if it going to be low so the CIC can do some last minute adjustments. Etc Etc Etc. Just making a plan and hoping for the best isn't a plan. Or more plainly "Hope" isn't a plan.
If you check the ALLIED logs for Frame 2 you will see that all of our "Min"s were meant. So it can be done and its easy to do.
If your the CIC and you plan a mission and the "Min"s arnt meant you deserve a penility. And the AXIS side should take a hard hit for it. Its the only way to enforce the rules. And if this had been the ALLIES I would chime exactly the same way.
In Frame 2 the AXIS had what amounted to 2 extra squads flying the best AC Fighter of the game (24 AC). That had a marked effect which changed the outcome of the frame.
The AXIS was short 8 bombers so the ALLIED sides was denied those kill point potential = 72 points
The AXIS was short 8 110's so the ALLIED side was denied those kill point potential = 32 points
And lastly how many "extra" kills did the AXIS side get because you had 16 extra 109G-2's and 8 X 109 drivers in G's and not E's. Hard to say.... and then the negative effect that would have had if the kills took place before the ALLIED fighters achieved their primary missions like Striking targets or hunting down bombers.
Intention to plan a good mission doesn't count. Either you did or didn't by the logs. The AXIS didn't. And because AXIS AC types and Min's were so far off I would hope a sizeable penelity is taken. Otherwise there wont be an incentive for future CIC's and planners to follow the set up rules. They will "Game the Game" and take the penility hit knowing that the outcome is better than the penility. Penilites should be in points and rated at 4 times the point value that was achieved or effected by. My opinion.
Not saying the AXIS CIC intentially planned a mission to Game the Game. Not at all. Im saying the plan violated the setup rules by a very wide margin. So take the hit and lets move on.
Although I shouldn't considering the cloud above my head, I will bite.
You are 100% correct when you say a penalty should be given. If we are 16 planes below MIN or above MAX there should be a penalty. Obviously that gave us an advantage. However, the penalty will not be enough to keep us from winning. Unless the penalty is gross and exaggerated. This is where it becomes hard to be an Admin CM I suppose. You have to penalize but the penalty does not make a very big dent in score. So we dont know if that CiC learned or not. I completely agree with you Viper, the only way to enforce the rules is penalize. I have all confidence in saying that Nef will be penalizing us for our numbers in Frame 2.
As for Fulcrum, sorry you didnt have much fun in FSO. In my experience, FSO is the best thing AH has to offer. I would be devastated if I could not fly. I have flown as a role player and I have led a squad in FSO. Some people just have different taste I suppose. I however will not bash you because you did not enjoy your time. As an FSO CO, I thank you for trying FSO and wish you could stay. But I completely understand <S>
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Without a doubt the worst, least co-ordinated and fun FSO I've ever participated in. And the last.
Most likely because you weren't flying with the AK's. But as you say to each his own.
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Most likely because you weren't flying with the AK's. But as you say to each his own.
Eld...My comment and opinion have nothing to do with the squad I'm flying with. Muppets or AKs it would have been a crappy FSO. But since you brought it up, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that I failed to have fun flying FSO with the AKs until after you left and others took over the planning activities.
As for Fulcrum, sorry you didn't have much fun in FSO. In my experience, FSO is the best thing AH has to offer. I would be devastated if I could not fly. I have flown as a role player and I have led a squad in FSO. Some people just have different taste I suppose. I however will not bash you because you did not enjoy your time. As an FSO CO, I thank you for trying FSO and wish you could stay. But I completely understand <S>
I have flown FSO for nearly two years now. I used to enjoy it. But the mission design has started to become stale at best or, taking last night as an example, downright boring. Flying 3 sectors in HE 111s acting as transports...hmmmm...historic ally accurate? Sure thing. Quality entertainment? Debatable....at best.
Near the end the following two thoughts kept rolling through my mind:
a.) "That is 90 minutes of my life I'm not going to get back."
b.) "Please God let some damn Yak end my suffering soon or I swear I'm going to plow this thing into the ground and swear it was caused by a joystick malfunction."
I know a lot of people put a good bit of time into the design of these events. I do not want to cast dirt on their voluntary efforts. I also know you can't please everyone. But seriously, putting a bomber on auto pilot for 90 minutes to fly to a field, rearm and fly back? I've had more fun watching grass grow.
I've said my peace and voiced an opinion I knew wouldn't be taken well by the community. I'm sorry (honestly) if feelings are hurt...but it needed to be said. FSO is a voluntary effort....so I have decided to not do so going forward.
:salute to you all.
P.S. please note these are my personal opinions and do not necessary reflect those of my fellow squad mates.
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Eld...My comment and opinion have nothing to do with the squad I'm flying with. Muppets or AKs it would have been a crappy FSO. But since you brought it up, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that I failed to have fun flying FSO with the AKs until after you left and others took over the planning activities.
I have flown FSO for nearly two years now. I used to enjoy it. But the mission design has started to become stale at best or, taking last night as an example, downright boring. Flying 3 sectors in HE 111s acting as transports...hmmmm...historic ally accurate? Sure thing. Quality entertainment? Debatable....at best.
Near the end the following two thoughts kept rolling through my mind:
a.) "That is 90 minutes of my life I'm not going to get back."
b.) "Please God let some damn Yak end my suffering soon or I swear I'm going to plow this thing into the ground and swear it was caused by a joystick malfunction."
I know a lot of people put a good bit of time into the design of these events. I do not want to cast dirt on their voluntary efforts. I also know you can't please everyone. But seriously, putting a bomber on auto pilot for 90 minutes to fly to a field, rearm and fly back? I've had more fun watching grass grow.
I've said my peace and voiced an opinion I knew wouldn't be taken well by the community. I'm sorry (honestly) if feelings are hurt...but it needed to be said.
:salute to you all.
It's the luck of the draw Fulcrum.. I would MUCH MUCH MUCH .. [ad nausem] be tooling along in the HE-111 than be stuck in the Yak. Twice.
I've been flying these for over 10 years.. Windshield vs. bug.. Been both.
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Fulcrum,
Try and stick with us. The design guys do bear in mind what you guys say and we do take your observations and opinions into account.
We're by no means sitting on some mountain thinking we're perfect and we do our best to make it fun for everyone. Sometimes we pull it off.
Sometimes we don't. :salute
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And yours is the valued opinion?
NOPE, not at all.................. Now look. How much time of your life that "you won't get back" do you spend in here squeaking about FSO? Come up with a design and submit it! Fly......... Don't fly...... who the F cares.
just sayin....
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Most likely because you weren't flying with the AK's. But as you say to each his own.
You don't want to go there with me either Eld...at all!
This is definitely not the place to air my thoughts about you though.
Although I don't agree with Fulcrums point of view on fso. I must say that I didn't enjoy the frame but know
that every squad has to take the good missions with the bad...and the Muppets still made it fun.
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NOPE, not at all.................. Now look. How much time of your life that "you won't get back" do you spend in here squeaking about FSO? Come up with a design and submit it! Fly......... Don't fly...... who the F cares.
just sayin....
I don't think I've ever "squeaked" about FSO or anything before now. Your mature and classy responses, however, lead me to believe you are something of a "squeaker" yourself. I voiced my opinion..it's over...move along.
If there is more to this or your cartoon honor is somehow insulted feel free to ping me for some DA time.
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NOPE, not at all.................. Now look. How much time of your life that "you won't get back" do you spend in here squeaking about FSO? Come up with a design and submit it! Fly......... Don't fly...... who the F cares.
just sayin....
I squeaked about FSO? May want to get your facts straight while your prancing around your sandbox.
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I can't believe I'm seeing complaints about this FSO. Or maybe I should considering no matter what the FSO is someone will complain.
In Frame 1 KN was defense of A25. Engaged outnumbering Yaks. Had JG11 come in and help, right in the middle of it bombers are on their way in. After colliding with a Yak I went to a gunner of a HE111 and immediately fought off (killed) a Yak. Watched and listened as HE111s nervously landed and rearmed. Watched two Yaks strafe the field helpless cause guns don't work while buff is on ground. Shagged [blank] out toward A71. Got caught by P40's at A72. It was one of the wildest FSO's I've ever had.
Frame 2 was somewhat similar. I don't know anything about having too many G-2's cause it was completely fair to the Allies at V97. Once again KN engaged Yaks outnumbered 9v25. Nefarious's group came in and we cleaned up. Still V97 was flattened. It was obvious by the stats that the HE111s had a hard time at Stalingrad.
Frame 3 I was escort for the HE111 with JG11. Buffs got in and barely got out with many not making it. Even tho we were a large squad we still had trouble with a smart attack with IL-2s going after bombers. 109Es throwing BB's at IL-2's was frustrating. Then Yaks and I16's came in. I barely made it out with ammo gone only to be caught by an I16 halfway to A72. Lots of planes on both sides went down.
I thought it was a great idea to have supply planes try and land at an active field. Most of us have to do bomber time in FSOs. I've never had a boring trip in one cause I know it's gonna hit the fan soon. Now if you can't have fun in an FSO like that, then you'll never be happy.
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NOPE, not at all.................. Now look. How much time of your life that "you won't get back" do you spend in here squeaking about FSO? Come up with a design and submit it! Fly......... Don't fly...... who the F cares.
just sayin....
Who are you?
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I squeaked about FSO? May want to get your facts straight while your prancing around your sandbox.
:rofl Nothing at YOU slash.. I am NOT prancing in a sandbox but that was funny.
I was addressing the comment about "The Last FSO I am flying in" It is not the first time it has been typed and won't be the last. I am just wondering how a grown (my assumption) man can type a comment like that "That set up sucked and I am never going to fly FSO or SCENARIO or what ever again" What are the other 300 plus guys going to do without YOU! Oh my GOD we are so screwed! That guy quit FSO, we should change the entire way we do things so his panties don't get all bunched up! Like I said, who cares? Really, anybody? chirp chirp Did not think so.
Your squad got a crappy assignment? OK type about that. We in JG11 DO NOT LIKE PTO! We fly LUFTWAFFE! But, on PTO nights do we take our joysticks and go home? NOPE! We take on what ever assignment given and do what we can with it. We flew He111's in frame 2 and 4 out of 20 made it. We did what we could. I actually enjoyed flying that thing at rooftop level over Stalingrad. Made think of the scene in that movie Enemy at the Gates. I ended up ditching and had a short night, but fun none the less.
Don't like a set up? Type about that and what you think could of made it more balanced? Fun? Historical? Cool. I like reading ideas about changes, but not insulting CM's and calling names, or typing you are quitting FSO........
I am sorry if I upset you or hurt your feelings, I did not mean too. It was just the I quit comment I was questioning, nothing personal.
Yea, Not sure how going to the DA is going to do anything? I work two jobs and play in a band and have a family so I do not even go to MA much. I fly FSO. Want a crack at me? Fly FSO on the ALLIED side and just maybe we will meet in the skies over Germany, Russia, or the Pacific ocean.... But I won't be alone JG11 will be there, cuz that is how we fly! FUR DIE SONDERSTAFFLE
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Who are you?
nobody!
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That translation from the IP into the maelstrom at A25 in frame 3! We all felt it. There was so much anticipation and tension. Would Fritz be home? Is it a giant trap?
Suddenly the windscreen was covered in red dots and all the pressure was relieved. So much cannon fire in the air. Looked like the night pics of air raids over Baghdad. The nerves of the guys still trying to land their He111s must have ranged from steely to shredded. Amazing moments.
<S>
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Fulcrum,
I've been flying FSO Fow a couple of years now. If I based my decision to fly FSO on what planes I fly, how well I did, or assignments we got I wouldn't have stayed around for more than a month in FSO. You can check the logs on me, I rarely get kills, I get shot ALOT, but I'm always there except when I'm losing my leg lol (very true btw) or can't get internet. It's about having fun with your fellow squaddies, and I always have fun!!!! :salute
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That translation from the IP into the maelstrom at A25 in frame 3! We all felt it. There was so much anticipation and tension. Would Fritz be home? Is it a giant trap?
Suddenly the windscreen was covered in red dots and all the pressure was relieved. So much cannon fire in the air. Looked like the night pics of air raids over Baghdad. The nerves of the guys still trying to land their He111s must have ranged from steely to shredded. Amazing moments.
<S>
And a snappy salute right back at you, Dantoo! :salute
JG11 flew the Bf-109E-4 "Emil" as escort for the Heinkels coming in to land at Pitomnik. That dogfight at the field was wild: first a few I-16s, then a big wave of Shturmoviks, finally a tsunami of Yaks. Very few of us managed to escape that sequence! Despite that, it was fun.
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:rofl Nothing at YOU slash.. I am NOT prancing in a sandbox but that was funny.
I was addressing the comment about "The Last FSO I am flying in" It is not the first time it has been typed and won't be the last. I am just wondering how a grown (my assumption) man can type a comment like that "That set up sucked and I am never going to fly FSO or SCENARIO or what ever again" What are the other 300 plus guys going to do without YOU! Oh my GOD we are so screwed! That guy quit FSO, we should change the entire way we do things so his panties don't get all bunched up! Like I said, who cares? Really, anybody? chirp chirp Did not think so.
Might just be me, but when I don't care, I don't write paragraphs about how much I don't care. :)
Your squad got a crappy assignment? OK type about that. We in JG11 DO NOT LIKE PTO! We fly LUFTWAFFE! But, on PTO nights do we take our joysticks and go home? NOPE! We take on what ever assignment given and do what we can with it.
We flew the assignment and did what we could.
Yea, Not sure how going to the DA is going to do anything? I work two jobs and play in a band and have a family so I do not even go to MA much. I fly FSO. Want a crack at me? Fly FSO on the ALLIED side and just maybe we will meet in the skies over Germany, Russia, or the Pacific ocean.... But I won't be alone JG11 will be there, cuz that is how we fly! FUR DIE SONDERSTAFFLE
Dude, you care. Nobody writes in red text when they don't care.
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Most likely because you weren't flying with the AK's. But as you say to each his own.
I've tilted my head at this a few different ways and still can't decide what you mean.
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Dude, you care. Nobody writes in red text when they don't care.
Of course he cares. He cares about the health of the Event Series and continued success of it. Hence his reply to the initial commnet that started the discussion.
Very sorry the Fulcrum had a boring evening. I missed frame three and an assignment in fighters. But frame 2, myself and 18 other fighter pilots in my unit, strapped into our 'goons' and flew the mission. Actually for us...it was fun...but we try to create the fun...regardless of circumstance, assignment or surroundings.
They can not, and will not, all be barn burners.
I think Nef thought about how to add something into the same ole same ole...and personally...I think he succeeded. Would I like to see a resupply effort every set-up? No of course not. But I applaud his efforts and the outcome of the Stalingrad set up.
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Very sorry the Fulcrum had a boring evening. I missed frame three and an assignment in fighters. But frame 2, myself and 18 other fighter pilots in my unit, strapped into our 'goons' and flew the mission. Actually for us...it was fun...but we try to create the fun...regardless of circumstance, assignment or surroundings.
They can not, and will not, all be barn burners.
I think Nef thought about how to add something into the same ole same ole...and personally...I think he succeeded. Would I like to see a resupply effort every set-up? No of course not. But I applaud his efforts and the outcome of the Stalingrad set up.
The issue was Fulcrum's blood/alcohol level had too much blood in it. I'll make sure to post some guidelines the next time we get bombers. :cheers:
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The issue was Fulcrum's blood/alcohol level had too much blood in it. I'll make sure to post some guidelines the next time we get bombers. :cheers:
:lol
That explains it perfectly. All my guys must fail a mandatory sobriety check before goggling up!
:cheers:
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:lol
That explains it perfectly. All my guys must fail a mandatory sobriety check before goggling up!
:cheers:
In molsman's case, if we can understand him on vox he's not allowed to fly.
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The issue was Fulcrum's blood/alcohol level had too much blood in it. I'll make sure to post some guidelines the next time we get bombers. :cheers:
You, Kappa, Pepprr, and me had a good JFK discussion on the way home so we made the most of it.
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You, Kappa, Pepprr, and me had a good JFK discussion on the way home so we made the most of it.
I seem to recall you telling me you were going to shoot me from the grassy knoll.. :noid
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:rofl
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I admit to having a low alcohol to blood level during the event. I also admit it didn't not spoil my whole evening as I started drinking heavily right after that.
All I'm saying is it was boring. I've drawn short stick before many times but this one was truly beyond the pale boring. I've never, ever wanted to lose intentionally at anything before Friday night. To even be tempted to do so speaks volumes for me.
Again, didn't mean to get feathers ruffled. I've never complained before about FSO but I felt I needed to speak out and make the CM staff aware. I highly doubt I'm alone or that my feelings towards the frame were unique. I still do not plan to fly FSO for now....perhaps a break is in order, I'm already taking a semi-break from AH. My recent irritation with the game in general may have played a factor here as well.
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First, I fly FSO to have fun. 412th FG is by far the most fun squad I've had the pleasure to fly with. We were tasked with a second round of transport pilot duty in Frame 3, much to the chagrin of the fighter fly boys, and I don't think I heard one 412th guy complain. We joked, laughed and got our job done.
The nerves of the guys still trying to land their He111s must have ranged from steely to shredded. Amazing moments.
<S>
Dantoo, you have no idea. Listening to the fighters call out the approaching red army, trying to get out of the area in time it really was harrowing. I never fired a single shot, but had more white knuckle flying than I had in a while.
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Gentlemen Good morning,
I’m sorry for not replying to this thread sooner. Life, as it has it’s way of doing, has interfered with my game playing, and I only saw this thread this morning…
I am writing this to dispel the any inference that the AXIS MIN-numbers that were missed during Frame 2 of Der Kessel were in any way contrived or intentional. I am in a unique position to answer that charge of intent, as *I* was the Axis CIC during that frame. That said, numbers WERE missed, I WAS in charge, and therefore I DO take responsibility for that. (Just so we’re clear :banana:)
During this thread I will show what my intentions were during the writing of the CIC orders. I will show how the numbers were indeed a question, but that the Frame Admins ultimately approved my plan. And I will show how the missed numbers were an accident, and not intentional.
*** Frame setup Intentions.
While I wrote the order for this frame I attempted to balance two things; and keep in mind that for the whole month squads could only do one job during the PITOMNIK AIRLIFT. These two intentions were:
1) Do not soak up all the big squads in frame 2 so that the Frame 3 CIC guy has no big squads to work with.
2) Give some important jobs to the little squads – from whom I’ve oft heard the complaint “Little squads never get good rides, we just get pigeon-holed into what ever garbage the CIC has left”
Therefore, I assigned a bunch of little squads to 109 E’s, and the very important task of He-111 Airlift Defense. Also, I assigned mostly middle level squads to He-111’s, again to leave larger squads available for frame 3.
I did give 109G2’s to the PITOMNIK DEFENDERS. And the balance of 109G2’s were given only to two squads – albeit, two squads with a known history for killing stuff <S> AOM & Komando Nowotnie
*** Frame Setup Mechanics
Now, about how I calculate numbers. I like to take the average of the Min-Max numbers to count as ride commitment. For example, a 4-6 level squad, I would count 5 for making my number of aircraft. Is it the most accurate, no, and I acknowledge that. But some quads bring more, some bring less and that usually averages out.
*** Responsibility
During the FSO Admin review of frame orders (Before they were sent to the squads) Nef did contact me and voiced a concern about numbers. (I have included some of that email thread below for the communities review.)
To summarize the thread, I said that I would attempt to manage numbers during Frame launch, and Nef said “Ok”.
That is where I failed. I can only claim, in my defense on this charge, the mitigating factors of
1) Real Life (I had a bathroom in my house that blew up and I was forced to gut the morning of FSO).
2) Home-Squad Management – we had some new guys flying with {The Gun Fighters} who needed orientation.
3) Fog of war. I did not see all the Squad Number Level reports as they came in on 150.
It was the juxtaposition of these three factors that caused me to not manage the numbers as closely as I promised I would. If this caused displeasure, frustration, or angst on the part of the FSO community, I apologies and take responsibility for that.
------------- Email Thread ------------------
From: nefarious
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: November FSO: Frame 2 Nov 8, DER KESSEL Axis Orders --- DRAFT
Ok, just some number issues it looks like.
Right now the Minimum numbers on the He 111 look like 37 while the max is 51.
Same with the Bf 110C, Right now it's 18 Min and Max 25.
I understand that the Maximums do meet the requirements, but It's better to plan for the Minimums. I will be enforcing a penalty on Aircraft that don't meet the requirements in
scoring every plane not used counted as lost.
FROM: InCrypt
SENT Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 6:12 PM,
If you look at the XLS, You’ll see that I planned for the median. And yes, some of them were below the numbers, but only by 2, or 4 for the 111’s – which also have the largest margin for overage. I think we should be good, but I’ll keep abreast of the numbers if that’s ok.
Chris.
From: Will Hyman [mailto:nefarious@ahevents.org]
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: November FSO: Frame 2 Nov 8, DER KESSEL Axis Orders --- DRAFT
Yes. That's ok.
------------- End Thread ------------------
*** Closing Arguments
I would like to also say that I intentionally took a Hands-Off approach to CIC this frame. I have a history with my squad, {The Gun Fighters}, and they will tell you all about this, of over planning everything. My CO and XO have even accused me of having a 64 step plan, filled out in triplicate, just to take a dump! I cried Hog-wash! And explained how that is absolutely ridiculous, because it only takes 59 steps to take a dump!
<Cough> <Grumble> <Get back on point>
Sorry, I digress, it has taken {The Gun Fighters} almost 2 years of intensive intra-squad therapy (Mostly in the form of harangues, jeers, and ribbing) to “Calm my butt down”, and I attempted to bring this form of leadership to the larger FSO Community – many of whom have seen some of my more intricate and detailed plans in the past :airplane:.
I believe I have answered the charge of Intent. It was not to contrive a win. It was to have fun, and allow the CO’s of each squad as much latitude as possible to dictate their own fate. It was to give the little guys a voice, and a chance, and provide the Frame 3 CIC some resources. Was it a total success? The score may say not, but I had fun. My squad had fun. Many others had fun. And I consider that a success.
After all, we’re here to have fun Gentlemen. To fly together and kill stuff (It’s a male primate thing). The points that are settled in the end are, in my opinion, just a way to gage how the TEAM did during the frame. When I pull CIC duty, I will always make a best effort to abide by the rules of the frame (I consider that fun too), and can only say “The wins belong to the players. The faults belong with me.”
:salute
InCrypt out.
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Nice writeup InCrypt. :salute
It illustrates how much effort goes into an FSO frame by CiCs. Lets face it FSO is a lot of work, not just by CMs but CiCs and Squadron COs and their members. One guy's bad night is another guy's great night. A guys disappointment in a an outcome many times is based on the fact he put so much effort into the event. Every gear in the FSO machine is important. From the guy that designs it all the way through the process to the number 4 guy in the 4th flight of a squadron of 16 somewhere out there on the map about to engage the enemy. We all depend on each other to make it work and that is one of the coolest things about the event in my eyes. It is not one person's creation. It is a piece of granite with 300-500 separate chisels that will carve it into a final monument to everyone's efforts that participated in the event.
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Not that he needs defending...
Having worked with InCrypt in the past as a fellow VF15 Satan's Playmate in game and in FSO, I support his defense. Knowing InCrypt on a more personal level, I can vouch that if he missed any numbers, it was purely unintentional. He is a great asset to the FSO community and I can certainly vouch for his efforts that go into planning and training to ensure squad and side success.
:rock
SlipKnoT
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I'm not going to go back and re-read the whole thread, but I don't think there were any accusations of intentional numbers manipulation. I think it was merely pointed out that the minimums were not met for some aircraft and maximums were exceeded for others. The process used to assign assets was mostly the issue, compounded by not keeping good control over pre-launch comms and aircraft counts.
It happens, and it will happen again. We learn, we adapt, we move on.
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I hear many complaints about one side having a advantage over the other. That I feel is what really makes the FSO. To take on the challenge when you know you are out numbered and out classed in you equipment is the challenge that makes the FSO exciting. Until this summer I have always flown Axis with few exceptions. A lot of the times we were outclassed and sometimes also out numbered. As much as I complained sometimes it always made me want to do better. It gave me that extra drive to improve my game and show the other side it was not going to be a cake walk. Many times I walked away disappointed but the times we won made it more than worth while.