Author Topic: Der Kessel Frame 2 Summary  (Read 2251 times)

Offline Dantoo

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Re: Der Kessel Frame 2 Summary
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2013, 05:41:36 AM »
That translation from the IP into the maelstrom at A25 in frame 3! We all felt it. There was so much anticipation and tension.  Would Fritz be home?  Is it a giant trap?

Suddenly the windscreen was covered in red dots and all the pressure was relieved. So much cannon fire in the air.  Looked like the night pics of air raids over Baghdad.  The nerves of the guys still trying to land their He111s must have ranged from steely to shredded.  Amazing moments.

<S>
I get really really tired of selective realism disguised as a desire to make bombers easier to kill.

HiTech

Matthew 24:28 For wherever the carcass is, there is where the vultures gather together.

Offline FBDragon

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Re: Der Kessel Frame 2 Summary
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2013, 08:26:52 AM »
Fulcrum,
I've been flying FSO Fow a couple of years now. If I based my decision to fly FSO on what planes I fly, how well I did, or assignments we got I wouldn't have stayed around for more than a month in FSO. You can check the logs on me, I rarely get kills, I get shot ALOT, but I'm always there except when I'm losing my leg lol (very true btw) or can't get internet. It's about having fun with your fellow squaddies, and I always have fun!!!! :salute
Kommando Nowotny
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Offline Bino

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Re: Der Kessel Frame 2 Summary
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2013, 10:37:48 AM »
That translation from the IP into the maelstrom at A25 in frame 3! We all felt it. There was so much anticipation and tension.  Would Fritz be home?  Is it a giant trap?

Suddenly the windscreen was covered in red dots and all the pressure was relieved. So much cannon fire in the air.  Looked like the night pics of air raids over Baghdad.  The nerves of the guys still trying to land their He111s must have ranged from steely to shredded.  Amazing moments.

<S>

And a snappy salute right back at you, Dantoo!  :salute

JG11 flew the Bf-109E-4 "Emil" as escort for the Heinkels coming in to land at Pitomnik.  That dogfight at the field was wild: first a few I-16s, then a big wave of Shturmoviks, finally a tsunami of Yaks.  Very few of us managed to escape that sequence!  Despite that, it was fun.


"The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'." - Randy Pausch

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Offline Triton28

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Re: Der Kessel Frame 2 Summary
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2013, 11:33:50 AM »
:rofl  Nothing at YOU slash..  I am NOT prancing in a sandbox   but that was funny.

I was addressing the comment about "The Last FSO I am flying in"         It is not the first time it has been typed and won't be the last. I am just wondering how a grown (my assumption) man can type a comment like that "That set up sucked and I am never going to fly FSO or SCENARIO or what ever again"    What are the other 300 plus guys going to do without YOU! Oh my GOD we are so screwed! That guy quit FSO, we should change the entire way we do things so his panties don't get all bunched up!  Like I said, who cares? Really, anybody?   chirp  chirp   Did not think so.

Might just be me, but when I don't care, I don't write paragraphs about how much I don't care.   :)

Your squad got a crappy assignment? OK type about that. We in JG11 DO NOT LIKE PTO! We fly LUFTWAFFE! But, on PTO nights do we take our joysticks and go home? NOPE! We take on what ever assignment given and do what we can with it.

We flew the assignment and did what we could.



Yea, Not sure how going to the DA is going to do anything? I work two jobs and play in a band and have a family so I do not even go to MA much. I fly FSO. Want a crack at me? Fly FSO on the ALLIED side and just maybe we will meet in the skies over Germany, Russia, or the Pacific ocean.... But I won't be alone  JG11 will be there, cuz that is how we fly!  FUR DIE SONDERSTAFFLE


Dude, you care.  Nobody writes in red text when they don't care.
Fighting spirit one must have. Even if a man lacks some of the other qualifications, he can often make up for it in fighting spirit. -Robin Olds
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Offline Triton28

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Re: Der Kessel Frame 2 Summary
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2013, 11:36:50 AM »
Most likely because you weren't flying with the AK's. But as you say to each his own.

I've tilted my head at this a few different ways and still can't decide what you mean. 
Fighting spirit one must have. Even if a man lacks some of the other qualifications, he can often make up for it in fighting spirit. -Robin Olds
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Offline Stampf

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Re: Der Kessel Frame 2 Summary
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2013, 11:41:11 AM »
Quote
Dude, you care.  Nobody writes in red text when they don't care.

Of course he cares.  He cares about the health of the Event Series and continued success of it.  Hence his reply to the initial commnet that started the discussion.

Very sorry the Fulcrum had a boring evening.  I missed frame three and an assignment in fighters.  But frame 2, myself and 18 other fighter pilots in my unit, strapped into our 'goons' and flew the mission.  Actually for us...it was fun...but we try to create the fun...regardless of circumstance, assignment or surroundings.

They can not, and will not, all be barn burners.

I think Nef thought about how to add something into the same ole same ole...and personally...I think he succeeded. Would I like to see a resupply effort every set-up?  No of course not.  But I applaud his efforts and the outcome of the Stalingrad set up.

- Der Wander Zirkus -
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Offline Triton28

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Re: Der Kessel Frame 2 Summary
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2013, 11:55:24 AM »
Very sorry the Fulcrum had a boring evening.  I missed frame three and an assignment in fighters.  But frame 2, myself and 18 other fighter pilots in my unit, strapped into our 'goons' and flew the mission.  Actually for us...it was fun...but we try to create the fun...regardless of circumstance, assignment or surroundings.

They can not, and will not, all be barn burners.

I think Nef thought about how to add something into the same ole same ole...and personally...I think he succeeded. Would I like to see a resupply effort every set-up?  No of course not.  But I applaud his efforts and the outcome of the Stalingrad set up.

The issue was Fulcrum's blood/alcohol level had too much blood in it.  I'll make sure to post some guidelines the next time we get bombers.   :cheers:



Fighting spirit one must have. Even if a man lacks some of the other qualifications, he can often make up for it in fighting spirit. -Robin Olds
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Offline Stampf

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Re: Der Kessel Frame 2 Summary
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2013, 12:09:50 PM »
The issue was Fulcrum's blood/alcohol level had too much blood in it.  I'll make sure to post some guidelines the next time we get bombers.   :cheers:





 :lol

That explains it perfectly.  All my guys must fail a mandatory sobriety check before goggling up!

 :cheers:

- Der Wander Zirkus -
- La Fabrica de Exitos -

Offline Hopper

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Re: Der Kessel Frame 2 Summary
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2013, 12:10:56 PM »
:lol

That explains it perfectly.  All my guys must fail a mandatory sobriety check before goggling up!

 :cheers:



In molsman's case, if we can understand him on vox he's not allowed to fly.
Hopper


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Offline Slash27

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Re: Der Kessel Frame 2 Summary
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2013, 12:34:10 PM »
The issue was Fulcrum's blood/alcohol level had too much blood in it.  I'll make sure to post some guidelines the next time we get bombers.   :cheers:




You, Kappa, Pepprr, and me had a good JFK discussion on the way home so we made the most of it.

Offline Triton28

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Re: Der Kessel Frame 2 Summary
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2013, 12:39:17 PM »
You, Kappa, Pepprr, and me had a good JFK discussion on the way home so we made the most of it.

I seem to recall you telling me you were going to shoot me from the grassy knoll..    :noid
Fighting spirit one must have. Even if a man lacks some of the other qualifications, he can often make up for it in fighting spirit. -Robin Olds
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Offline Slash27

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Re: Der Kessel Frame 2 Summary
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2013, 12:50:54 PM »
 :rofl

Offline Fulcrum

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Re: Der Kessel Frame 2 Summary
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2013, 04:31:36 PM »
I admit to having a low alcohol to blood level during the event.  I also admit it didn't not spoil my whole evening as I started drinking heavily right after that.

All I'm saying is it was boring.  I've drawn short stick before many times but this one was truly beyond the pale boring.  I've never, ever wanted to lose intentionally at anything before Friday night.  To even be tempted to do so speaks volumes for me.

Again, didn't mean to get feathers ruffled.  I've never complained before about FSO but I felt I needed to speak out and make the CM staff aware.   I highly doubt I'm alone or that my feelings towards the frame were unique. I still do not plan to fly FSO for now....perhaps a break is in order, I'm already taking a semi-break from AH. My recent irritation with the game in general may have played a factor here as well.
Going by "Hoplite" now. :)

Offline eeyore

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Re: Der Kessel Frame 2 Summary
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2013, 06:22:27 PM »
First, I fly FSO to have fun. 412th FG is by far the most fun squad I've had the pleasure to fly with. We were tasked with a second round of transport pilot duty in Frame 3, much to the chagrin of the fighter fly boys, and I don't think I heard one 412th guy complain. We joked, laughed and got our job done.

  The nerves of the guys still trying to land their He111s must have ranged from steely to shredded.  Amazing moments.
<S>

Dantoo, you have no idea. Listening to the fighters call out the approaching red army, trying to get out of the area in time it really was harrowing. I never fired a single shot, but had more white knuckle flying than I had in a while.



"So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past." - F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline InCrypt

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Re: Der Kessel Frame 2 Summary
« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2013, 09:11:35 AM »
Gentlemen Good morning,

I’m sorry for not replying to this thread sooner. Life, as it has it’s way of doing, has interfered with my game playing, and I only saw this thread this morning…

I am writing this to dispel the any inference that the AXIS MIN-numbers that were missed during Frame 2 of Der Kessel were in any way contrived or intentional. I am in a unique position to answer that charge of intent, as *I* was the Axis CIC during that frame. That said, numbers WERE missed, I WAS in charge, and therefore I DO take responsibility for that. (Just so we’re clear :banana:)

During this thread I will show what my intentions were during the writing of the CIC orders. I will show how the numbers were indeed a question, but that the Frame Admins ultimately approved my plan. And I will show how the missed numbers were an accident, and not intentional.

*** Frame setup Intentions.
While I wrote the order for this frame I attempted to balance two things; and keep in mind that for the whole month squads could only do one job during the PITOMNIK AIRLIFT. These two intentions were:
1)   Do not soak up all the big squads in frame 2 so that the Frame 3 CIC guy has no big squads to work with.
2)   Give some important jobs to the little squads – from whom I’ve oft heard the complaint “Little squads never get good rides, we just get pigeon-holed into what ever garbage the CIC has left”
Therefore, I assigned a bunch of little squads to 109 E’s, and the very important task of He-111 Airlift Defense. Also, I assigned mostly middle level squads to He-111’s, again to leave larger squads available for frame 3.
I did give 109G2’s to the PITOMNIK DEFENDERS. And the balance of 109G2’s were given only to two squads – albeit, two squads with a known history for killing stuff <S> AOM & Komando Nowotnie


*** Frame Setup Mechanics
Now, about how I calculate numbers. I like to take the average of the Min-Max numbers to count as ride commitment. For example, a 4-6 level squad, I would count 5 for making my number of aircraft. Is it the most accurate, no, and I acknowledge that. But some quads bring more, some bring less and that usually averages out.



*** Responsibility
During the FSO Admin review of frame orders (Before they were sent to the squads) Nef did contact me and voiced a concern about numbers. (I have included some of that email thread below for the communities review.)
To summarize the thread, I said that I would attempt to manage numbers during Frame launch, and Nef said “Ok”.
That is where I failed. I can only claim, in my defense on this charge, the mitigating factors of
1) Real Life (I had a bathroom in my house that blew up and I was forced to gut the morning of FSO).
2) Home-Squad Management – we had some new guys flying with {The Gun Fighters} who needed orientation.
3) Fog of war. I did not see all the Squad Number Level reports as they came in on 150.

It was the juxtaposition of these three factors that caused me to not manage the numbers as closely as I promised I would. If this caused displeasure, frustration, or angst on the part of the FSO community, I apologies and take responsibility for that.

------------- Email Thread ------------------
From: nefarious
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: November FSO: Frame 2 Nov 8, DER KESSEL Axis Orders --- DRAFT
 Ok, just some number issues it looks like.
Right now the Minimum numbers on the He 111 look like 37 while the max is 51.
Same with the Bf 110C, Right now it's 18 Min and Max 25.
I understand that the Maximums do meet the requirements, but It's better to plan for the Minimums. I will be enforcing a penalty on Aircraft that don't meet the requirements in
scoring every plane not used counted as lost.

FROM: InCrypt
SENT Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 6:12 PM,
If you look at the XLS, You’ll see that I planned for the median. And yes, some of them were below the numbers, but only by 2, or 4 for the 111’s – which also have the largest margin for overage. I think we should be good, but I’ll keep abreast of the numbers if that’s ok.
 
Chris.

From: Will Hyman [mailto:nefarious@ahevents.org]
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: November FSO: Frame 2 Nov 8, DER KESSEL Axis Orders --- DRAFT

Yes. That's ok.
------------- End Thread ------------------

*** Closing Arguments
I would like to also say that I intentionally took a Hands-Off approach to CIC this frame. I have a history with my squad, {The Gun Fighters}, and they will tell you all about this, of over planning everything. My CO and XO have even accused me of having a 64 step plan, filled out in triplicate, just to take a dump! I cried Hog-wash! And explained how that is absolutely ridiculous, because it only takes 59 steps to take a dump!
<Cough> <Grumble> <Get back on point>
Sorry, I digress, it has taken {The Gun Fighters} almost 2 years of intensive intra-squad therapy (Mostly in the form of harangues, jeers, and ribbing) to “Calm my butt down”, and I attempted to bring this form of leadership to the larger FSO Community – many of whom have seen some of my more intricate and detailed plans in the past  :airplane:.

I believe I have answered the charge of Intent. It was not to contrive a win. It was to have fun, and allow the CO’s of each squad as much latitude as possible to dictate their own fate. It was to give the little guys a voice, and a chance, and provide the Frame 3 CIC some resources. Was it a total success? The score may say not, but I had fun. My squad had fun. Many others had fun. And I consider that a success.


After all, we’re here to have fun Gentlemen. To fly together and kill stuff (It’s a male primate thing).  The points that are settled in the end are, in my opinion, just a way to gage how the TEAM did during the frame. When I pull CIC duty, I will always make a best effort to abide by the rules of the frame (I consider that fun too), and can only say “The wins belong to the players. The faults belong with me.”

 :salute
InCrypt out.
Buddist proverb: "When the Student is ready, the teacher will appear."

Since I have no teacher I know I'm still working on being ready...