Welcome to aces high.Not a reflection on you, but that's sad...
Not a reflection on you, but that's sad...
Any thoughts on what we can do to change that?
Dont be afraid to PM them with friendly questions. I've tossed around friendly salutes, etc, via PM. I've even coached people not on my country via PM, most new players have no clue as to the learning curve or the "how to" in terms of vox, radio bar, chat bar, map functions, etc, etc. You'd be surprised as to how much you can teach someone and help them in a matter of 10 minutes of PM's. Likewise, helping with the game dynamics will help them get confidence and eventually a long term player.I could have tried that, but normally even the most innocent offers of assistance have not been received well.
Lol...catch them enroute...they'll fight then, I guarantee it. Do it until they stop and they'll find another way to have funNice thought. But which 51 is piloted by the future vulcher?
He was probably farming perk points.If that's the case, a 51 wouldn't be my favored "farming" implement.
A 262 costs a lot of vulches!
I could have tried that, but normally even the most innocent offers of assistance have not been received well.
Nice thought. But which 51 is piloted by the future vulcher?
If that's the case, a 51 wouldn't be my favored "farming" implement.
I have heard folks talk about the decline in the game, and I feel this is one of the things that is causing the decline (if there is indeed one).
There was one person however who kept repeating the same flight profile that completely dumbfounded me. He would fly in at mach speed, blow past miles of fights with one single purpose in mind, vulch the runway. He might get a kill or two before dying, but that was it.
New players don't seem to want to "learn" the game as in the past. There used to be 10-20 people in the TA regularly. Now it's all but empty. Today it's just jump into it and claim "it's my $15".
Why do you let it get to you?Just because someone poses a question regarding the consequence's of a behavior in the game, doesn't mean they or their behavior are "getting to me". I was just looking at one specific act that a new person, trying to learn the game, might see and decide "well if this is how the game is played, I will go back to <insert other game here>".
ack-ack
Last night...
...might see and decide "well if this is how the game is played, I will go back to <insert other game here>".
Dont be afraid to PM them with friendly questions. I've tossed around friendly salutes, etc, via PM. I've even coached people not on my country via PM, most new players have no clue as to the learning curve or the "how to" in terms of vox, radio bar, chat bar, map functions, etc, etc. You'd be surprised as to how much you can teach someone and help them in a matter of 10 minutes of PM's. Likewise, helping with the game dynamics will help them get confidence and eventually a long term player.
A noob's two cents:
I may not be the norm, but I made an effort to read up on the game, the planes, the arenas, and their etiquette. Having done that, I feel that I'm learning faster by getting my arse shot off over and over in the MA. That's not to say I don't pop into a TA when I do see people in there to keep in-range and keep the film, etc.
What I'm sure comes across as a downside of my kind doing their learning on the fly (see what I did there? :uhoh) in the MAs to the more seasoned folks here is that:
1) I've on more than one occasion accidentally collided with someone I was trying to engage - which I know annoys people (after which I immediately PMed them apologizing, and letting them know I'm new & it was a mistake, etc.)
2) The "dreaded furball" is really my best chance to A. Have plenty of teammates to give me advice/ask them for it, B. Get into some of the basics of ACM, choosing targets, etc. while C. Attempting to improve what I think may be my weakest point - SA.
That being said, I *do* - being well-read on the game, etiquette, etc - make a concerted effort to avoid HO, poaching a kill, vulching, etc. I knew coming in that I was going to be an easy kill and that I'd spend more time with my chute open than in the air at times - I knew to not care about my score. I've seen several new people come in who obviously haven't bothered to visit the forums, help docs, training site, etc. and it gets under my skin, too...all I can do without giving them a hard RTFM is politely suggest they visit the section they need, and point out that there's a vast wealth of material on the game that's really worth reading.
Overall, I guess the point is if there's a concerted effort to point these people in the right direction, and they keep hearing the same thing over and over from every person they encounter in the game, all we can do is hope that the message gets through. Ultimately, I don't think we'll ever see an end to score-potatos...it's an evil we'll have to continue to endure. Until then, we can always send out a BOLO to our countrymen saying to pop these turds whenever they have an opportunity :t
In the immortal words of Forrest Gump: "That's all I have to say about that." :salute
EDIT: HA! "score-potatos" was originally score-[women of the night]...but I think I like potato better....
My name is Changeup and I approve of this guy :aok
A noob's two cents:
I may not be the norm, but I made an effort to read up on the game, the planes, the arenas, and their etiquette. Having done that, I feel that I'm learning faster by getting my arse shot off over and over in the MA. That's not to say I don't pop into a TA when I do see people in there to keep in-range and keep the film, etc.
What I'm sure comes across as a downside of my kind doing their learning on the fly (see what I did there? :uhoh) in the MAs to the more seasoned folks here is that:
1) I've on more than one occasion accidentally collided with someone I was trying to engage - which I know annoys people (after which I immediately PMed them apologizing, and letting them know I'm new & it was a mistake, etc.)
2) The "dreaded furball" is really my best chance to A. Have plenty of teammates to give me advice/ask them for it, B. Get into some of the basics of ACM, choosing targets, etc. while C. Attempting to improve what I think may be my weakest point - SA.
That being said, I *do* - being well-read on the game, etiquette, etc - make a concerted effort to avoid HO, poaching a kill, vulching, etc. I knew coming in that I was going to be an easy kill and that I'd spend more time with my chute open than in the air at times - I knew to not care about my score. I've seen several new people come in who obviously haven't bothered to visit the forums, help docs, training site, etc. and it gets under my skin, too...all I can do without giving them a hard RTFM is politely suggest they visit the section they need, and point out that there's a vast wealth of material on the game that's really worth reading.
Overall, I guess the point is if there's a concerted effort to point these people in the right direction, and they keep hearing the same thing over and over from every person they encounter in the game, all we can do is hope that the message gets through. Ultimately, I don't think we'll ever see an end to score-potatos...it's an evil we'll have to continue to endure. Until then, we can always send out a BOLO to our countrymen saying to pop these turds whenever they have an opportunity :t
In the immortal words of Forrest Gump: "That's all I have to say about that." :salute
EDIT: HA! "score-potatos" was originally score-[women of the night]...but I think I like potato better....
If 1-5 guys who join the game these days was like this guy I wouldn't have any worries about the future of this game! A BIG <S>
Unfortunately it's more like 1-50 from what I see. So many new and rookie (players with 6 month or less time in the game) haven't a clue as to whats available both in training, AND game play. Like a bunch of "lemmings" they blindly follow that behavior they see most often which is the HOin gangin and hording that is slowing becoming the norm.
I'm glad that most players don't feel compelled to tell other players how they "should" be playing. But there's always a few.
The Training room is pretty much worthless to a new player who isn't part of the community yet.
Think about it... Say you run into a new guy, and he actually asks a question. You tell him that he may want to visit the Training Arena to learn some things...
So, he logs out of the Main Arena and goes to the Training Arena... Where he is by himself. Nobody there to help him.
The TA is worthless when it is unstaffed.
Do the volunteer trainers staff it all these days? I've been there a few times over the past few days, testing some joystick settings. I haven't seen a single other pilot in there in the last few days.
I can't blame a new player for not spending time in the TA. In fact, I would argue that he is better off in the Main where at least he MIGHT get an honest answer to a question.
I have believed for years that HTC seriously dropped the ball by not actually staffing the TA 24/7... But that's water under the bridge by now.
During the week you'll often find me and Morf in there around 9 central time. I'm there every Tuesday and Wednesday night at least, sometimes more. Morf is there more then me.
:salute
BigRat
I didn't see anyone telling anyone how to fly/play. I did see many ask why they do so tho.
Which makes anyone's time there very worthwhile.
:salute
Tru-dat.
Try to give Morf a break sometimes though so we can get him up with the squad on Tuesdays. :aok
IMO, if you can't give someone a sporting chance to beat you, the AH community would be better if you quit.
If that applied to everyone, AH would be a small community.
IMO, if you can't give someone a sporting chance to beat you, the AH community would be better if you quit.nah, we all like a little entertainment and watching the failures is fun.
IMO, if you can't give someone a sporting chance to beat you, the AH community would be better if you quit.
" I was just looking at one specific act that a new person, trying to learn the game, might see and decide "well if this is how the game is played, I will go back to <insert other game here>"
Well, I guess it would be small then...
IMO, if you can't give someone a sporting chance to beat you, the AH community would be better if you quit.
IMO, if you can't give someone a sporting chance to beat you, the AH community would be better if you quit.
If I knew people did this to me when I was new I would have quit the game. It's probably just me but I want people to come at me with everything they've got! I like a challenge! :D
JG11 is much nicer then VF-17, I have to train them Monday and Thursday nights along with my other trainer duty's Tuesday and Wednesdays. They never give me a day off :cry Bunch of freakin Pirates :lol Well I guess FSO is my day off :D
:salute
BigRat
More likely out of business than small. Do you see how that could be a problem?
If I knew people did this to me when I was new I would have quit the game. It's probably just me but I want people to come at me with everything they've got! I like a challenge! :D
Organized missions seem to change the nature of the beast. Not only does it add some order to the fight but it also brings teamwork, which tends to be the opposite of ho, vulch and horde.
Would more missions make a difference?
Not really, because if you run an organised mission with more than x players, it's just been seen as a horde by the enemy. After all, a horde in AH is just a 'huge' number of enemy planes in a sector. Nobody cares if they are in an organised mission or not.
remember the correct AH nomenclature:
#enemy > #friendlies = horde
#friendlies > #enemies = teamwork
;)
While I sympathise totally with our grumpy sarcastic morning snail...
If you want to see large tooth and nail airbattles...
harden the hangers, and bring back meaningful fuel damage at the fields.
Make it harder than a set of buffs a 110 and an goon to take a field. Make it 20 times as hard and 20 times less fields.
Make everyone work together towards fewer harder goals.
Players should be encouraged to fly toward enemy dar bar...not away from it.
Not really, because if you run an organised mission with more than x players, it's just been seen as a horde by the enemy. After all, a horde in AH is just a 'huge' number of enemy planes in a sector. Nobody cares if they are in an organised mission or not.
Holy hell, is it morning already? :huh :uhoh
Unfortunately, making captures much harder tends to increase hordes and the necessity of surprise raids. And if you make captures too hard past a certain point, many players will just stop trying to capture bases... and disappear.
We had that problem showing up in the early days of the new towns when there was no white flag and 100% had to be down. It was just too frustrating and many players were disgusted. We may like it or not, but that's the way it is.
In addition, reducing the number of bases to something like 3-4 per side will also greatly reduce gameplay opportunities and variation. Remember the "capture order" test several years ago, were only 6 bases were capturable at any given time? While that indeed created giant battles at times, it also totally limited actual gameplay to those, with little variation in combats.
Great in theory, especially when I'm looking at the dreadful off-hours numbers. But I very much doubt it will work that way :(
Just making stuff harder doesn't give that encouragement either ;)
Doesn't mean the AH community should tolerate excessive picking and HOing and vulching. The "it's their $15" is the most damaging in the game, as it's an excuse to anything at all.
We set the tone for what is acceptable, and acceptance is tantamount to encouragement in this situation.
Wow Stampf, I had no idea we were so far apart on this.
I agree with every point Lusche made in his rebuttal, though I also agree that your items he didn't address have some merit.
Admittedly it's slightly off topic, but I bemoan the loss of history buffs in the game even though I hate lock step re-enactments of battles. It makes me sad that so many players come and go without apparently taking any interest in the historical context for which these aircraft were developed and used.
I'd be happy to help a new guy into the game, it such a shame i'm a terrible teacher
I recognize you as a history buff too. I wasn't referring to you but my impression of the current in-game community in general.
Making base capture harder isn't the way to go imo but I know htc disagrees with me. More bases in a terrain with towns that are smaller and easier to capture would allow smaller groups of relatively new players to enjoy the excitement of success, or the illusion of potential easy success. And it would generate opposition from the enemy fairly quickly. Hence it would create a fight between a smaller initial group of players. I think that would be a good thing, but that's my opinion and apparently Lusche's as well. I usually don't bother trying to convince others but sometimes I see a thread like this and can't keep from posting. It wasn't meant to be an attack on you at all, I was just surprised by your position statement.
remember the correct AH nomenclature:
#enemy > #friendlies = horde
#friendlies > #enemies = teamwork
| Tour 105 Kills 27 Assists 12 Sorties 244 Landed 39 Bailed 24 Ditched 10 Captured 18 Deaths 141 Discos 12 Time hh:mm:ss 29:07:00 Rank 3721 Kills per Death + 1 - 0.14 Kills per Sortie - 0.11 Kills per Hour of Flight - 0.94 Kills Hit Percentage - 2.04 Kill Points - 8970.49 | Tour 166 Kills 221 Assists 13 Sorties 98 Landed 61 Bailed 5 Ditched 2 Captured 9 Deaths 21 Discos 0 Time hh:mm:ss 28:08:35 Rank 4 Kills per Death + 1 - 6.14 Kills per Sortie - 2.26 Kills per Hour of Flight - 7.85 Kills Hit Percentage - 12.60 Kill Points - 31098.60 |
Paging DREDIOCK.-+
:lol :bolt:
IMO, if you can't give someone a sporting chance to beat you, the AH community would be better if you quit.
Why do you let it get to you?
ack-ack
Holy hell, is it morning already? :huh :uhoh
Unfortunately, making captures much harder tends to increase hordes and the necessity of surprise raids. And if you make captures too hard past a certain point, many players will just stop trying to capture bases... and disappear.
We had that problem showing up in the early days of the new towns when there was no white flag and 100% had to be down. It was just too frustrating and many players were disgusted. We may like it or not, but that's the way it is.
In addition, reducing the number of bases to something like 3-4 per side will also greatly reduce gameplay opportunities and variation. Remember the "capture order" test several years ago, were only 6 bases were capturable at any given time? While that indeed created giant battles at times, it also totally limited actual gameplay to those, with little variation in combats.
Great in theory, especially when I'm looking at the dreadful off-hours numbers. But I very much doubt it will work that way :(
Just making stuff harder doesn't give that encouragement either ;)
Are you serious? 2006, and this is the first you've seen a newb do this or anything like it?Yes, I am serious, but also yes, it's not the first time I have seen this. Please understand, this is an example to illustrate something.
Yea, there have been some mild to slightly more than mild behavioral shifts in game, there is a lot of hoing and picking going on. But this game is the same as it's always been all the way back to AW. Everyone who says different either weren't there or are over dramatizing the situation.Perhaps it's who I run with that's changed, but I feel the WOW mentality is worsening.
Half the guys saying different are comparing the game to it's peak, 5 or 6 years ago and blaming HOing and picking for the recessions crime.HOing is easy to avoid 99% of the time. I honestly can't remember when I died to a HO. Maybe it's because I actually try to get people to go for the HO, then reverse them, or because I just don't care.
And like akak said, why do you let it get to you? He's an easy kill and that's what your paying 15$ for right?Like I said, it doesn't "get to me", but it may "get to" some, and if WE as a community shun the worst offenders, it will improve the game for everyone.
This apply to the horde warriors steamrolling bases too?If they let you up, its at least a chance to kill one or two in a suicide run. But if they just smash the hangers and go for town, yes, they are destructive to the gameplay.
If it did 3/4 of the arena would empty outThat doesn't make it acceptable, unfortunate as it is. All that means is 3/4ths of the players are playing the game in such a manner that they harm it.
What about the guys who cant, or wont seem to fight unless its a 4,5,or 6 on one in their favor?ISP ban, and their callsign should be registered as a swear word in the system. That type of play is both harmful, and disgusting.
Of please. The same things have been going on since I started playing AW 17 years ago. The same arguments against it have been made for those same 17 years and guess what? Nothings changed. What makes you think jumping on your high horse is going to change it after all these years?
Players progress at their own pace. Some grow out of dweebery, some never do and some quit.
Do you think everyone telling a new guy he's playing the game wrong is going to make him want to stay? Do you honstly think that him giving YOU a chance doesn't take away his own chance for a kill?
Stop trying to tell others how to play and just play the game for what it is. If you go into the MA with any other expectation than anything and everything can happen you'll be severly dissapointed.
-+
Point 1
It wasnt me. I havent vulched anything but GVs below 2K all week
Point 2.
I dont normally fly ponies
Point 3
I dont go to bases specifically to vulch 99% of the time. And when I do. Its either at a base that is hording ours. In which point you deserve whatever happens. Or during an attempted base capture
Point 5
When you can do more then gangtard yourself..then talk :P
Point 4
I just looked up your stats. I dont see how you fly long enough to be able to tell how I fly. And in response to you not being able to catch me or out climb me. Your two main rides seem to be the Tiffy and the TA152. Not exactly goon speed. Which if as you also claimed we are closer then I thought in terms of frequency of encounter tells me you are either being outflown by me. Or you are avoiding me which inasmuch as I dont seem to have any kills on you either might mean you are smart enough to not want to become part of the keystone cop routine that usually ends up chasing me
If they let you up, its at least a chance to kill one or two in a suicide run. But if they just smash the hangers and go for town, yes, they are destructive to the gameplay.
No, they are not destructive to game play. They are playing the game as it was designed, there is nothing stopping the defenders from trying to defend the base so the hangers and towns aren't taken down and the field captured. You want to impose penalties on the attackers but nothing on the defenders that don't even lift a finger to defend their base. You want combat? Defend your base and you'll have combat.
ack-ack
I simply wish you would quit this amoral mess and find a game with a population more worthy of your noble attention.
If are dieing from HO's, look me up and I will be glad to show you how to use them to your advantage.
Oh, an item to note, the perpetrator of this act isn't a noob, he's been around at least a year, maybe more.
I understand "why" we have hordes and I understand that they shouldn't be removed from the game much like HOing, vulching or any of the other dweebery that goes on....
Well, I guess it would be small then. If living means so much to you in a cartoon game that you can't give someone a sporting chance, I'd almost go so far as to say you don't deserve to play the game.Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the idea of this game ,is to get behind somebody and shoot them in the back. Not very sporting in my opinion more like" Knife fighting rules ."
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the idea of this game ,is to get behind somebody and shoot them in the back. Not very sporting in my opinion more like" Knife fighting rules ."
Getting hoed is no fun but usually avoidable and I'll take that over no one to shoot at.
I expect no quarter in the MA.
The idea of the game is to shoot people down. If you can't do it without so large an advantage that your target really has no chance, then that just speaks poorly of your ACM.
My responses:
Point 1 Response: I know. I was JOKING and getting a dig into you.
Point 2 Response: See point 1. :D
Point 3 Response: I'll have to take your word for it.
Point 4 Response: Since, as you state, do not run into me much don't assume I'm a horder....oh, might want to read below.
Point 5 Response: Yep....I like the Tiffy at times and the past few months I've been flying the 152. However, when I do encounter you I'm low from either just taking off or in the process of landing. I know its you because pretty much everyone says "Yep. It's DREDIOCK" on range vox. You fail to get kills on me because you miss....usually due to a simple evasive manuver on MY part.
Nice try tho'! :D
Vulching, hoing, hording, noe, smashing all the hangars and HQ, are great. It means someone is doing something, somewhere and I get to shoot at them. The planes are free. Sometimes I'll up relentlessly under a vulch just to see if I can get up and take a couple vulchers with me. Might take me 5 tries to get up and kill one guy and I'll smile the whole time. Other times I'll up a base away and try and keep every advantage in my corner while I hunt them. Other times I might be the vulcher, come remove me!
Getting hoed is no fun but usually avoidable and I'll take that over no one to shoot at.
I expect no quarter in the MA.
No, they are not destructive to game play. They are playing the game as it was designed, there is nothing stopping the defenders from trying to defend the base so the hangers and towns aren't taken down and the field captured. You want to impose penalties on the attackers but nothing on the defenders that don't even lift a finger to defend their base. You want combat? Defend your base and you'll have combat.
ack-ack
Yea took a bit to sink in. Caught me a bit cranky cause my daughter missed her school bus again which meant I had to bring her.
Apologies
How can you do a simple evasive maneuver if Im vulching?
I didnt call you a horder. I called you a gangtard (http://www.flamewarriors.net/forum/Smileys/new/bleh.gif)
Yes but with planes that fast. You should be able to catch me at least once in a while. You dont usually kill me either...So there
No worries. You need to learn to not take what I say too seriously. :D
A gangtard I am not. I usually hang out between bases. For example: I spend a good portion of last night flying around between bases LOOKING for singles or small groups to engage and fight....sadly that's like looking for ice cubes in the desert these days it seems. :frown:
I'll fight between bases provided there is a legitimate fight going on. Much of the time lately either people are just gangbanging and hording or running to and/or hugging their own ack after pass 1
I disagree with the OP. if you don't like getting vulched then don't roll from the CAP'ed field. Roll somewhere else and take the guy out who makes these high speed vulch runs. It is a legitimate tactic. To each their own.You may want to reread what I posted. Yes, if the field is capped, then yes, if you up, it's on you.
Perhaps it's just me... Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this. Maybe I am in the minority in thinking the game is about skill.
:salute
You may want to reread what I posted. Yes, if the field is capped, then yes, if you up, it's on you.
To clarify the situation there was a fun fight from 15K to the deck, with occasional bombers passing through, it was almost the perfect fight. Neither field was capped, the fight was in between the bases. There was a single player who on 3 consecutive sorties would dive in from 15K and vulch the field. Twice I was able to catch him and shoot him down, once I got the assist. It's likely this wasn't the only 3 times he did this. I guess I just can't fathom how someone could find any enjoyment out of this, I just can't.
Perhaps it's just me... Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this. Maybe I am in the minority in thinking the game is about skill.
:salute
I appreciate your thoughts on this. Something you don't seem to be grasping is my post isn't about the specific "act", but a general condition in the game that we all face. I could sight several other acts that many refer to a "dweebish", but that is useless because people are focusing at a micro level, I suggest we look at this at a macro level.
I enjoy small dogfights or 1 v 1 as much as anyone, which is why I go to the DA more and more. But to say a slasher making a one and run attack is illegitimate stretches things. He vulched the field. Not the most sporting of things to do, but... Unless we are going to have referees then to each his own. For such a great fight three vulches is a tiny fraction.
<S>
I appreciate your thoughts on this. Something you don't seem to be grasping is my post isn't about the specific "act", but a general condition in the game that we all face. I could sight several other acts that many refer to a "dweebish", but that is useless because people are focusing at a micro level, I suggest we look at this at a macro level.
As a community in this game, we are provided a blank canvas and a color pallet to make of the game what we want. We may not have all the colors we want, but in the end it's up to us to decide what is acceptable, and not acceptable behavior in the game. We don't need and shouldn't have an assigned "referee", we should ALL be referee's.
When I first started playing, I did some things that would upset my fellow players. Was in intentional, no, but it happened anyway. I was politely (and not so politely) informed that what I was doing was not acceptable, so I changed. As I grew in the game I realized why these things were not acceptable and I shared what I learned with others. I feel if the players help those who play in an unacceptable fashion change, we will all benefit.
Sure, HTC can make some changes to control or outright stop specific behaviors (kill shooter for example), but I really feel it's up to us to squash "dweebery". Please don't get so hung up on what prompted this post, open your mind to the concept I am trying to convey.
I appreciate your thoughts on this. Something you don't seem to be grasping is my post isn't about the specific "act", but a general condition in the game that we all face. I could sight several other acts that many refer to a "dweebish", but that is useless because people are focusing at a micro level, I suggest we look at this at a macro level.
As a community in this game, we are provided a blank canvas and a color pallet to make of the game what we want. We may not have all the colors we want, but in the end it's up to us to decide what is acceptable, and not acceptable behavior in the game. We don't need and shouldn't have an assigned "referee", we should ALL be referee's.
When I first started playing, I did some things that would upset my fellow players. Was in intentional, no, but it happened anyway. I was politely (and not so politely) informed that what I was doing was not acceptable, so I changed. As I grew in the game I realized why these things were not acceptable and I shared what I learned with others. I feel if the players help those who play in an unacceptable fashion change, we will all benefit.
Sure, HTC can make some changes to control or outright stop specific behaviors (kill shooter for example), but I really feel it's up to us to squash "dweebery". Please don't get so hung up on what prompted this post, open your mind to the concept I am trying to convey.
.... but in the end it's up to us to decide what is acceptable, and not acceptable behavior in the game.