Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Tank-Ace on November 23, 2013, 04:16:55 PM

Title: Change port layout
Post by: Tank-Ace on November 23, 2013, 04:16:55 PM
Since we're getting new terrain anyway, I think it would be good to take this chance to change the layout of the guns at the ports.

Specifically, I'd like to see either an additional pair of '88s placed on the ends of the docks, or one of the existing pair moved, and a third added. The reasoning for this is that as the ports are currently laid out, there are large gaps in the '88s fields of fire, such that it can be impossible to effectively fire on low-medium alt attackers off a CV (a very common occurrence, particularly for ports).
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: SmokinLoon on November 23, 2013, 04:21:42 PM
Since we're getting new terrain anyway, I think it would be good to take this chance to change the layout of the guns at the ports.

Specifically, I'd like to see either an additional pair of '88s placed on the ends of the dock, or one of the existing pair moved, and a third added. The reasoning for this is that as the ports are currently laid out, there are large gaps in the '88s fields of fire, such that it can impossible to effectively fire on low-medium alt attackers off a CV (a very common occurrence, particularly for ports).

Agreed.  It would be nice to be able to use the 88's for anti-ship roles too.   ;)
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: Tinkles on November 23, 2013, 05:57:23 PM
Agreed.  It would be nice to be able to use the 88's for anti-ship roles too.   ;)
Since we're getting new terrain anyway, I think it would be good to take this chance to change the layout of the guns at the ports.

Specifically, I'd like to see either an additional pair of '88s placed on the ends of the docks, or one of the existing pair moved, and a third added. The reasoning for this is that as the ports are currently laid out, there are large gaps in the '88s fields of fire, such that it can be impossible to effectively fire on low-medium alt attackers off a CV (a very common occurrence, particularly for ports).

+1 to both  :D :D :D :D :D


Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: ReVo on November 23, 2013, 06:38:40 PM
I vote that instead of adding more puffy stuff for people to hide in we add a small dirt airstrip to the port and allow some of the early/mid war aircraft that primarily used dirt/gravel runways to up.
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: cobia38 on November 23, 2013, 07:23:34 PM
 Another bad thing about port layout is the fact that a set of bombers can take out the VH and storch hanger plus half the guns in one pass
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: bmused55 on November 23, 2013, 08:17:09 PM
The ports need more gun positions. I doubt any real life port was ever so poorly defended as those on AH.
Apart from the 88s and ack, there should also be fixed 50cal positions too. Some gun positions should also be bunkered and not susceptible to a simple strafe of 50cal or 20mm canon. Look at those German concrete gun positions in WWII.
The only way to kill them was by direct hit from large ship guns or mahoosive bunker buster bombs. Or, occasionally a brave soldier with a hand grenade who manages to get close enough to lob it through the window. Though, that only killed the crew, not the bunker.
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: Tinkles on November 23, 2013, 09:29:03 PM
I vote that instead of adding more puffy stuff for people to hide in we add a small dirt airstrip to the port and allow some of the early/mid war aircraft that primarily used dirt/gravel runways to up.

I wouldn't mind having more 88s, however, for those who don't. I think that the 88s should at least me replaced around the port. Right now they aren't placed in a very effective manner.    I don't mind adding  a small airstrip. It gives use to that fighter hangar that is there.  Then moving the fighter and Vehicle Hangars around the port, and perhaps adding a PT boat hangar. 


And +1 to better defended gun positions (from Bmused55's comment).

Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: Tank-Ace on November 23, 2013, 09:53:10 PM
Perhaps move the small FH off to the side (preferably a fair distance from the VH, and make a flat dirt runway out from the front of it?

I'd still say limit it to the Storch, until we get other recon planes like the Fw 189, Westland Lysander. Maybe let the PBY and H8K take off from the water, if we ever get them.
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: Tank-Ace on November 23, 2013, 10:03:23 PM
Agreed.  It would be nice to be able to use the 88's for anti-ship roles too.   ;)

Really think the '88 would have the punch to be really usefull? I feel like the things would be excessively difficult to aim at extended range, just due to the shell randomization and small blast radius of the shells.

And you can't use HE (AA) beyond 12k. Technically less than 12k, since distance through the air is different than the distance to target. Not gonna bother calculating the actual range, too tired.
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: Tinkles on November 23, 2013, 10:06:17 PM
Really think the '88 would have the punch to be really usefull? I feel like the things would be excessively difficult to aim at extended range, just due to the shell randomization and small blast radius of the shells.

And you can't use HE (AA) beyond 12k. Technically less than 12k, since distance through the air is different than the distance to target. Not gonna bother calculating the actual range, too tired.

I have used the 88s before to sink CVs.  It is quite challenging but possible.   Set the round to HE (anti air) set range to 12k or what range you believe the boat to be at. And fire accordingly. 
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: MrKrabs on November 23, 2013, 11:39:39 PM
Add a second VH at the very least...

There is no good reason a SINGLE fully-loaded 110 can take out both hangers and de-ack the field solo...
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: ReVo on November 24, 2013, 02:03:53 AM
Perhaps move the small FH off to the side (preferably a fair distance from the VH, and make a flat dirt runway out from the front of it?

I'd still say limit it to the Storch, until we get other recon planes like the Fw 189, Westland Lysander. Maybe let the PBY and H8K take off from the water, if we ever get them.

I think some early/mid war fighters without ord enabled would be nice to have as defensive aircraft at ports. Might get people interested in flying some of the less uber rides.







Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: Volron on November 24, 2013, 04:31:03 AM
I remember when they first made the change to the current layout, there were 2 VH's (the other VH was on the big pad near the "indestructible") .  I thought that awesome, but then it was reverted back to 1 fairly quick. :(

As for adding more defense, the Rufe would be nice.  At least some token air defense is better than nothing. :aok
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: Tank-Ace on November 24, 2013, 04:34:04 AM
I think some early/mid war fighters without ord enabled would be nice to have as defensive aircraft at ports. Might get people interested in flying some of the less uber rides.



Something like the Rufe wouldn't be bad, but if you're talking about enabling the P-40C just to add to the defense, then no.
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: SmokinLoon on November 24, 2013, 08:37:38 AM
I think some early/mid war fighters without ord enabled would be nice to have as defensive aircraft at ports. Might get people interested in flying some of the less uber rides.

No aircraft without legit runways.  The only exception being the Storch, obviously.
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: gyrene81 on November 24, 2013, 10:24:04 AM
No aircraft without legit runways.  The only exception being the Storch, obviously.
so something like this would be ok right?

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/70483000/jpg/_70483686_stowmariesfirstworldwaraerodromwfromtheair.jpg)
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: Tinkles on November 24, 2013, 02:26:40 PM
No aircraft without legit runways.  The only exception being the Storch, obviously.

Not sure what you mean by "legit' runways.

If planes took off in fields or dirt runways, then what makes them less than a "normal" base runway?
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: Tank-Ace on November 24, 2013, 03:03:23 PM
Not sure what you mean by "legit' runways.

If planes took off in fields or dirt runways, then what makes them less than a "normal" base runway?

Basically, I think ports should be primarily ports. If you're talking just non ordnance-carrying fighters, that includes the 109K, Ta-152, P-47M, Yak-9U, Yak-3, and Spit XIV.

All latewar, high-performance fighters, at least two of which you could argue are the best free fighters in the game.

If you restrict it to EW no ordnance fighters, you've still got the 109F (which can still fight with the best LW fighters), the P-40C, Hurricane Mk 1, C.202, Brewster, and Spit V. Effectively, this means you'll see about 60% of fighters lifted from ports being 109F's, a good 25% being Spit V's, and about 14% Brewsters. This would hardly get people into the worse fighters, and instead would serve only as a precedent for further expanding the air capabilities of ports and GV bases, which is honestly just a craptastic idea.
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: Tinkles on November 24, 2013, 04:01:33 PM
Basically, I think ports should be primarily ports. If you're talking just non ordnance-carrying fighters, that includes the 109K, Ta-152, P-47M, Yak-9U, Yak-3, and Spit XIV.

All latewar, high-performance fighters, at least two of which you could argue are the best free fighters in the game.

If you restrict it to EW no ordnance fighters, you've still got the 109F (which can still fight with the best LW fighters), the P-40C, Hurricane Mk 1, C.202, Brewster, and Spit V. Effectively, this means you'll see about 60% of fighters lifted from ports being 109F's, a good 25% being Spit V's, and about 14% Brewsters. This would hardly get people into the worse fighters, and instead would serve only as a precedent for further expanding the air capabilities of ports and GV bases, which is honestly just a craptastic idea.

I see your point. 

I still think that we need 1 more VH, then another for PT boats though. 
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: Tank-Ace on November 24, 2013, 06:21:04 PM
I see your point. 

I still think that we need 1 more VH, then another for PT boats though. 

I think 1 VH is fine, provided we move the Storch hanger away from it, and move the '88s.

Realistically, you'd need to have 3 or 4 to stop a horde, and adding a second VH just discourages small group action.
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: Tinkles on November 24, 2013, 06:48:33 PM
I think 1 VH is fine, provided we move the Storch hanger away from it, and move the '88s.

Realistically, you'd need to have 3 or 4 to stop a horde, and adding a second VH just discourages small group action.

Can't say I agree with that, but I see your point.   

Even with a small team of 3 you could take out 2 vhs.   1 for hangars 1 for guns then a troop carrier.

Not sure what else could be implemented other than what I have already said.  Ports as they are now are too easy to take. But I don't think having another VH would be a bad thing per say.  Considering V-bases have 4.           Even those V-bases don't have carriers, most of the time the fleet isn't by the port. And that doesn't exclude the fact that ports can easily be disabled.

Perhaps the answer is more AA guns?  But that would make the anti-anything-but-plane crowd upset.

Hmm...

What are the worst EW dogfight-type planes that we have?  Perhaps 1-2 of them could be available at ports?  *shrug* I don't know, just 'thinking' freely.


Trying to think of something that would make most happy with little consequences on the side, any ideas from what I have above?

 :salute
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: ReVo on November 24, 2013, 09:15:24 PM
Basically, I think ports should be primarily ports. If you're talking just non ordnance-carrying fighters, that includes the 109K, Ta-152, P-47M, Yak-9U, Yak-3, and Spit XIV.

All latewar, high-performance fighters, at least two of which you could argue are the best free fighters in the game.

If you restrict it to EW no ordnance fighters, you've still got the 109F (which can still fight with the best LW fighters), the P-40C, Hurricane Mk 1, C.202, Brewster, and Spit V. Effectively, this means you'll see about 60% of fighters lifted from ports being 109F's, a good 25% being Spit V's, and about 14% Brewsters. This would hardly get people into the worse fighters, and instead would serve only as a precedent for further expanding the air capabilities of ports and GV bases, which is honestly just a craptastic idea.

Let me rephrase, looking back my wording might not have been clear. Some early/midwar aircraft with no ordance enabled. Doesn't matter if they could carry ord it would be as if there were no bombs/rockets available at the port to arm the aircraft. Also the slippery slope argument isn't the best to use against the idea since at least one map has ports with fully functioning airfields, which doesn't seem to be a terrible problem. As for what aircraft should be enabled here are my thoughts.

German:
Bf-109E/F/G2/G6
Fw-190A5
Storch

Japanese:
Ki-61
Ki-43
A6M2
A6M3

Italian:
C202
C205

British:
Spit I
Spit V
Spit IX
Hurri I
Hurri II

American:
F4F
Brewster
FM2
P-38G
F6F
P40(All Variants)
P39
P-47D11/D25
F4U-1

Russian:
I-16
Yak-7
Yak-9T
LA-5


This is primarily an air combat game. Anything that gets pilots out of wirbles and field guns and into aircraft is in my opinion wonderful
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: lyric1 on November 24, 2013, 09:46:49 PM
Fix the 88's with the high speed gearing & add a sight this would help go along way to solving many issues.

http://www.lonesentry.com/manuals/88mm-antiaircraft-gun/index.html
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: Tank-Ace on November 24, 2013, 11:36:21 PM
Let me rephrase, looking back my wording might not have been clear. Some early/midwar aircraft with no ordance enabled. Doesn't matter if they could carry ord it would be as if there were no bombs/rockets available at the port to arm the aircraft. Also the slippery slope argument isn't the best to use against the idea since at least one map has ports with fully functioning airfields, which doesn't seem to be a terrible problem. As for what aircraft should be enabled here are my thoughts.

Kind of defeats the purpose of specialized base type to have so many aircraft enabled. I'd say it would also make them a tad too easy to defend, and would only encourage hording, which is bad under any and all circumstances.

And the slippery slope argument is perfectly valid, given that there is a Storch hanger at each and every vehicle base, and they aren't much different. Besides that, IIRC, those bases are actually full airfields with towns. It would be more accurate to say that it is an airfield with a port attached.

Quote
German:
Bf-109E/F/G2/G6
Fw-190A5
Storch

Japanese:
Ki-61
Ki-43
A6M2
A6M3

Italian:
C202
C205

British:
Spit I
Spit V
Spit IX
Hurri I
Hurri II

American:
F4F
Brewster
FM2
P-38G
F6F
P40(All Variants)
P39
P-47D11/D25
F4U-1 *hell no

Russian:
I-16
Yak-7
Yak-9T
LA-5

Reject out of hand
better alternative
still a bad idea


Quote
This is primarily an air combat game. Anything that gets pilots You meant to say "players", honest mistake out of wirbles and field guns and into aircraft is in my opinion wonderful

Provided its not at the expense of the GV's in any way shape or form, it is good. If it is, then it is bad, because it is actively harming the secondary (and quite sizable) portion of the game, and likely does not result in any serious improvement to the primary portion.

If it is the latter, then the only proper response HTC could make would be to implement spawnable US 90mm's with proximity fuzes. Or perhaps the German 128mm heavy FlaK cannon.
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: ReVo on November 25, 2013, 02:26:04 AM
Kind of defeats the purpose of specialized base type to have so many aircraft enabled. I'd say it would also make them a tad too easy to defend, and would only encourage hording, which is bad under any and all circumstances.

Ports are already horded, and are generally an easy take. At least this might turn the usual gangbang into a real fight.


Provided its not at the expense of the GV's in any way shape or form, it is good. If it is, then it is bad, because it is actively harming the secondary (and quite sizable) portion of the game, and likely does not result in any serious improvement to the primary portion.

This will not harm Gvers in any way, there would be no bombs for them to whine about.


If it is the latter, then the only proper response HTC could make would be to implement spawnable US 90mm's with proximity fuzes. Or perhaps the German 128mm heavy FlaK cannon.

This is not what we need, there are already enough AAA guns in the game.


On a side note I absolutely meant to say pilots. This is primarily an air combat game.
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: Tinkles on November 25, 2013, 05:50:30 AM
Out of the list I think the zeros are fine, maybe the p40s. But not the ki43, period. Perhaps the spit 1. But I wouldn't use any others in that list though. 

Also, I am really... nervous about adding more guns that have proximity fuses.   I am a gunner, no doubt about it, but proximity fuses are a simple 'point and click' item, that take very little skill (if you can call it that) to use.        I personally want to get rid of proximity fuses, but that would leave CVs more exposed.

Plus, once you get good in the any gun that uses a proximity fuse (currently being 5-inch guns on the CV fleet) you can easily hit targets 7 k +   

At least with the 88 it requires more knowledge than simply "point and click", because if it didn't, then there would be many more gunners :)


 :cheers:
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: alpini13 on November 25, 2013, 07:48:59 AM
+1 :aok
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: JimmyD3 on November 25, 2013, 10:33:14 AM
Fix the 88's with the high speed gearing & add a sight this would help go along way to solving many issues.

http://www.lonesentry.com/manuals/88mm-antiaircraft-gun/index.html

Lyric's suggestion would be a great first step. It takes to long to get an 88 turned for proper defensive fire. The same could be said for the Wirbl and Osti. the addition of a better sight would also help. :D
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: Tank-Ace on November 25, 2013, 12:21:14 PM
Ports are already horded, and are generally an easy take. At least this might turn the usual gangbang into a real fight.

No, not true. Many times ports are attacked by a relative handful, specifically because its a port. Their offensive value is severely limited, and thus they are less attractive targets for the horde, who want to take a maximum number of bases in the shortest span of time, with the least risk to any of their cartoon pilots. From what I've seen more ports are successfully defended than are taken.

Quote
This is not what we need, there are already enough AAA guns in the game.
Debatable, but thats neither here nor there.


Quote
On a side note I absolutely meant to say pilots. This is primarily an air combat game.
No, you meant to say players. Dr 7, who is emphatically not a pilot, is just as valuable to HTC. The same holds true for EVERY person in the game who pays their $15 a month, regardless of what they do.
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: BuckShot on November 25, 2013, 01:21:02 PM
Shore batteries with more overlap in fields of fire
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: ReVo on November 25, 2013, 01:31:25 PM
No, not true. Many times ports are attacked by a relative handful, specifically because its a port. Their offensive value is severely limited, and thus they are less attractive targets for the horde, who want to take a maximum number of bases in the shortest span of time, with the least risk to any of their cartoon pilots. From what I've seen more ports are successfully defended than are taken.
 Debatable, but thats neither here nor there.

 No, you meant to say players. Dr 7, who is emphatically not a pilot, is just as valuable to HTC. The same holds true for EVERY person in the game who pays their $15 a month, regardless of what they do.

You forgot to try and poke holes in the fact that it would in no way, shape, or form, harm GVers since I haven't even included a can opener in the list of aircraft. Maybe some of the listed aircraft could turret an M18/M8 or track a tank but that's about it. I can't see a single reason not to do this.

I can on the other hand see plenty of reasons why we don't need puffy on wheels..
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: Tinkles on November 25, 2013, 01:50:49 PM
Shore batteries with more overlap in fields of fire

Nothing makes me more mad than to have a fleet off the shore (with up to 3 shore batteries) and not ONE of them is useful!

Personally, I think shore batteries should have an angle on their own base (for troops/anti-gv).    Or at least give them a bigger angle, or something.
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: flubiu on December 10, 2013, 11:40:55 AM
MW planes, dirt field. Awesome idea! Depending on the map, ports are currently way too easy to take in relation to their strategic importance.
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: Arlo on December 10, 2013, 11:48:00 AM
+1 OP
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: DREDIOCK on December 10, 2013, 12:07:46 PM
Havent gone throug all of the posts in this thread but thought I'd toss in that at least some of the manned guns and guns in general should be on the ships at the port themselves
Title: Re: Change port layout
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 10, 2013, 12:24:22 PM
Havent gone throug all of the posts in this thread but thought I'd toss in that at least some of the manned guns and guns in general should be on the ships at the port themselves

If not manned guns, at least some AI guns on the ships in port.

ack-ack