Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: zack1234 on November 25, 2013, 01:50:10 AM
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what is best?
And what are the benefits?
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what is best?
And what are the benefits?
TVs usually have a huge input lag, they're horrible for fast paced games. Settlers etc. work fine. ;)
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I have a TV with VGA input and HDMI. I can not tell the difference between the inputs from a visual standpoint in AH.
I would think in AH with the small internet lag we deal with that any slowness from a TV would be insignificant. The tech guys might disagree. If they do, they are more likely to be right.
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I have a TV with VGA input and HDMI. I can not tell the difference between the inputs from a visual standpoint in AH.
I would think in AH with the small internet lag we deal with that any slowness from a TV would be insignificant. The tech guys might disagree. If they do, they are more likely to be right.
You can't see input lag untill you put two screens next to eachothers. In FPS input lag can cause the enemy to see you 2 steps before you see them behind a corner, boom you're dead.
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Monitor. You can get a 30" 2.5k monitor for a decent price. A 4k TV sounds quite interesting, though, instead of triple full-HD monitors.
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Monitor is the true gamer's choice. TVs are fine for casuals, and people who can afford to burn their retinas.
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With tvs you can approach sizes where the visual image is almost if not full size. So with a 65" and a 95 fov you are looking at a full size cockpit. The gages are about 3" and the panel is about 35" across. Problem to date is at 1080P and 32" away the resolution is not that great but with the new 4K from China we should be able to see full size at good resolution. That combined with trackir is as close to the real thing as current tech will allow IMHO. The prices for this are to high now but will come down a lot next year. I currently have a triple 27" setup and have tried a 55" old plasma. I prefer the plasma.
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TVs usually have a huge input lag, they're horrible for fast paced games. Settlers etc. work fine. ;)
come on man, we've been through this before, that is not true for all televisions. non-3d 120hz panels with a mode that turns off all post processing can be had and the input lag is +/- 10ms of all but the most expensive monitors.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57587317-221/game-mode-on-cnet-tests-tvs-for-input-lag/ (http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57587317-221/game-mode-on-cnet-tests-tvs-for-input-lag/)
i know leo bodnar from iracing...he and a couple of other gadget tweakers came up with that very useful device.
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come on man, we've been through this before, that is not true for all televisions. non-3d 120hz panels with a mode that turns off all post processing can be had and the input lag is +/- 10ms of all but the most expensive monitors.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57587317-221/game-mode-on-cnet-tests-tvs-for-input-lag/ (http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57587317-221/game-mode-on-cnet-tests-tvs-for-input-lag/)
i know leo bodnar from iracing...he and a couple of other gadget tweakers came up with that very useful device.
All hdmi connected devices may have input lags of several dozens of ms. Low input lag models are far and between.
Brand Model Number Size Display Type Input Lag (Camera) Lag (Leo Bodnar) Price
Sony KDL55W905A 55" LED LCD 8 ms 20 ms £2000
Sony KDL-55HX853 55" LED LCD 28 ms N/A £1750
Panasonic TX-L55WT65B 55" LED LCD 31 ms 38 ms £2300
Samsung UE55ES8000 55" LED LCD 31 ms N/A £1900
Sony KDL-55HX823 55" LED LCD 31 ms N/A £1500
Samsung UE55D8000 55" LED LCD 33 ms N/A £2000
Samsung UE55F8000 55" LED LCD 44 ms 44 ms £1850
Samsung LE55A956 55" LED LCD 45 ms N/A
Philips 55PFL8008 55" LED LCD 46 ms 50 ms £1900
If I was shopping for a gaming oriented screen I would get the new Eizo 240hz panel.
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2000£ :O
thats...what...3200$?
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2000£ :O
thats...what...3200$?
Yep tvs are expensive.
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Considering the average persons shooting skills, would these small delays really make a difference in AH? To the highly skilled player I could see the lag being a problem. I could see if you are inside 200, it gets to be more of a problem.
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Considering the average persons shooting skills, would these small delays really make a difference in AH? To the highly skilled player I could see the lag being a problem. I could see if you are inside 200, it gets to be more of a problem.
Its not only about input lag. Better contrast, brightness, colors, ghosting will make your games more enjoyable and will not wear your eyes down as much.
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All hdmi connected devices may have input lags of several dozens of ms. Low input lag models are far and between.
Brand Model Number Size Display Type Input Lag (Camera) Lag (Leo Bodnar) Price
Sony KDL55W905A 55" LED LCD 8 ms 20 ms £2000
Sony KDL-55HX853 55" LED LCD 28 ms N/A £1750
Panasonic TX-L55WT65B 55" LED LCD 31 ms 38 ms £2300
Samsung UE55ES8000 55" LED LCD 31 ms N/A £1900
Sony KDL-55HX823 55" LED LCD 31 ms N/A £1500
Samsung UE55D8000 55" LED LCD 33 ms N/A £2000
Samsung UE55F8000 55" LED LCD 44 ms 44 ms £1850
Samsung LE55A956 55" LED LCD 45 ms N/A
Philips 55PFL8008 55" LED LCD 46 ms 50 ms £1900
If I was shopping for a gaming oriented screen I would get the new Eizo 240hz panel.
don't speculate so much...i figured you of all people would do more research...
http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/ (http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/)
take note of the hdtv's with input lag in the low to mid 20's just like a lot of monitors...
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don't speculate so much...i figured you of all people would do more research...
http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/ (http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/)
take note of the hdtv's with input lag in the low to mid 20's just like a lot of monitors...
Take note that of the proper size tvs most rate from 'okay' to 'bad' and 'okay' is 50+ ms lag. If you sort the 'tv':s starting from the puny 27" size then you get a completely false picture, pun intended.
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Why are they so expensive? :old:
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Why are they so expensive? :old:
High end models always cost more. Plus here in euroland we pay taxes. VAT alone is 22 to 25% lol. That goes on top of customs, freight, profit etc...
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Greeks never paid a penny :old:
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Greeks never paid a penny :old:
Oh they did. Just not the richest ones. And now the poor suffer for it. The country got majorly ripped off by the political and financial elite. The city officials of Thessaloniki embezzled 50 million euros during 7 years for example and the guilty parties were never punished.
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Take note that of the proper size tvs most rate from 'okay' to 'bad' and 'okay' is 50+ ms lag. If you sort the 'tv':s starting from the puny 27" size then you get a completely false picture, pun intended.
nice job ignoring the obvious. compared to the number of monitors that also ranked from "okay" to "bad"...i'd say a 32 inch tv with 25ms input lag for under $300 is just as good as a $450 27 inch led monitor.
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What is the real input of lag to the game really?
Its like Frame rate is a high frame good or is it relevant?
so HDMI causes lag and dvi does not?
This is a very informative thread :old:
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What is the real input of lag to the game really?
input of lag? look up input lag Zack, it's better to see a demo than to try and have it explained.
Its like Frame rate is a high frame good or is it relevant?
unlike frame rates, the lower the input lag, the better. it's only milliseconds but, in games where reaction times count, he who can react faster wins.
so HDMI causes lag and dvi does not?
hdmi is the primary high definition video connection method of televisions and all of the post image processing (which is the real cause of input lag) occurs when you use an hdmi connection. television manufacturers are getting a little better by adding the ability to terminate all of the post image processing for an hdmi port through the television setup menu system.
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nice job ignoring the obvious. compared to the number of monitors that also ranked from "okay" to "bad"...i'd say a 32 inch tv with 25ms input lag for under $300 is just as good as a $450 27 inch led monitor.
Umm... no. HDMI is notoriously problematic with computers. Much better to get a proper monitor instead. Try finding a true 240hz tv with 1ms input lag somewhere ;)
Also TV models can be hard to figure out in the shop, you need exactly the same model and the same manufacturing period as the one tested to know with any certainty that any of the specs match. TVs are not designed to be monitors so the internals can change without notice. Even in monitors you can get differenent manufacturer panels depending from the batch. When I bought my Samsung BW226 monitor it had 3 different panels available and you could only see the brand from the service menu (post purchase obviously). Only 1 of them was considered good... I was lucky to get the proper one.
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Umm... no. HDMI is notoriously problematic with computers. Much better to get a proper monitor instead. Try finding a true 240hz tv with 1ms input lag somewhere ;)
i'd like to see that true 240hz monitor...let alone one with even 25ms input lag. try again...
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i'd like to see that true 240hz monitor...let alone one with even 25ms input lag. try again...
According to Eizo input lag is around 1ms. http://flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1383107475
Perhaps you should get up to date?
edit: posted wrong link, corrected. Also slight confusion with the two links, the original link was true 240hz, this one is gaming oriented and has special circuitry for input lag reduction. But its 120hz refresh with 120hz black split.
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According to Eizo input lag is around 1ms. http://flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1383107475
Perhaps you should get up to date?
edit: posted wrong link, corrected. Also slight confusion with the two links, the original link was true 240hz, this one is gaming oriented and has special circuitry for input lag reduction. But its 120hz refresh with 120hz black split.
no i saw the original press release on the eizo 240hz, the specs have always been 120hz converted, not a true 240hz.
special circuitry :rofl ok...according to your link, that circuitry isn't doing as good a job as standard dell desktop monitor.
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Then it is better to use the VGA port on my TV rather than the HDMI?
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Let me self quote:
Our testing gave us a small range of measurements in the very low end of milliseconds close to zero, which is probably due to small inaccuracies with our testing equipment. Input lag is virtually zero based on our testing. This is obviously great for gaming, but just compared side-by-side to a typical Dell office monitor it is actually noticeable when moving the mouse around on the desktop.
What this means Gyrene, is that not only the input lag was so small that the measuring device couldn't reliably measure it, it was noticeably faster on desktop use compared to a regular Dell.
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Then it is better to use the VGA port on my TV rather than the HDMI?
For response - probably yes. But even the VGA doesn't completely bypass the image processing which is usually the cause of the extra input lag in tv:s. But for overall image quality - probably no. That is, if your hdmi actually agrees to sync with your computer and you get a proper native resolution out of it.
If you're lucky you may have a tv that actually passes for casual gaming - but it's a total crap shoot to go shopping for a tv for the use.
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Learn to read! What is going on with you? The link stated that input lag is non measurable and the Dell monitor was VISIBLY LAGGING BEHIND. The panel actually does 240hz the problem is DVI/displayport which are specced only up to 144hz.
(http://burak.ozhan.de/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/facepalm.jpg)
i did read it, and obviously my grasp of the english language is a much better than yours. that p.o.s. 120hz monitor was lagging behind a basic dell monitor.
http://thegamerspad.net/eizo-foris-fg2421-24-240hz-gaming-monitor/# (http://thegamerspad.net/eizo-foris-fg2421-24-240hz-gaming-monitor/#)
EIZO has dubbed the technology as ‘Turbo 240′ which converts an already fast 120Hz signal to a incredible 240Hz by strobbing the backlight.
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i did read it, and obviously my grasp of the english language is a much better than yours. that p.o.s. 120hz monitor was lagging behind a basic dell monitor.
http://thegamerspad.net/eizo-foris-fg2421-24-240hz-gaming-monitor/# (http://thegamerspad.net/eizo-foris-fg2421-24-240hz-gaming-monitor/#)
Yes you have displayed your total misunderstanding of written language. Let me check: Just a couple of posts ago you stated that I won't find a monitor that does less than 25ms of input lag. Now you claim that the Dell desktop monitor is faster than the 'as close to zero as measuring device goes' input lag Eizo is?
(http://www.facepalm.su/wp-content/gallery/double-facepalm-2/ultimate_facepalm.jpg)
Also you gracefully missed all the explanation of frame doubling and how the panel actually does 240hz but is limited by the DVI/DP spec? :rofl
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i did read it, and obviously my grasp of the english language is a much better than yours. that p.o.s. 120hz monitor was lagging behind a basic dell monitor.
http://thegamerspad.net/eizo-foris-fg2421-24-240hz-gaming-monitor/# (http://thegamerspad.net/eizo-foris-fg2421-24-240hz-gaming-monitor/#)
:rofl I've read this superficial 'test' and couldn't even find the word 'dell' in it :headscratch:
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:rofl I've read this superficial 'test' and couldn't even find the word 'dell' in it :headscratch:
He was referring to the very throrough test I linked and which he failed to understand. :lol
http://flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1383107475
He didn't understand the concept of frame doubling:
(http://flatpanelshd.com/pictures/eizo240hz-1.jpg)
Nor the actual meaning of this text albeit I admit the word structure is not very clear:
Lastly, we just wanted to include a quick note about input lag. Eizo says “1.5 frame of input lag or less”, which we are inclined to believe. Our testing gave us a small range of measurements in the very low end of milliseconds close to zero, which is probably due to small inaccuracies with our testing equipment. Input lag is virtually zero based on our testing. This is obviously great for gaming, but just compared side-by-side to a typical Dell office monitor it is actually noticeable when moving the mouse around on the desktop.
He had made up his mind already that I must be wrong so he interpreted without logic that when a virtually zero lag monitor is compared to a desktop Dell, the noticed difference must be in favor of the regular monitor. At no point does the text make that claim but the opposite.
But better for him. He can use his 120 buck Dell and believe it's much better than the 700 dollar Eizo :D
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I had a similar friend, he swore that his regular 7+ yo dell (terrible screen, the Y axis wasn't even synced correctly) had less input lag that my Iliyama E2607WS that I chose especially for its low input lag. And he wouldn't read anything on the subject.
His monitor eventually died so he switched to a BenQ I chose for him, after feeling the difference in street fighter his mindset changed.