Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: -error on December 10, 2013, 09:55:56 AM
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Hello.
Recently I had several encouters of f4u while riding in bf.109-f4. And you know what? I was always being killed in stallfight @ speeds about 100-150 mph. How that 6 tonnes beast is able to keep up with light bf.109 is unbeknownst to me :-)
How should I fight 'em?
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I well flown Corsair can be a hand full, for sure.
In a 109F, I would fly defensively at first. Try to keep the fight going "up hill". Force him to fly nose up as much as possible. Pull only hard enough to stay out of his guns. Force him to scrub his own energy trying to get shots on you.
Use your superior climb rate and superior acceleration to gain an e-state advantage. Then use it.
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Hello.
Recently I had several encouters of f4u while riding in bf.109-f4. And you know what? I was always being killed in stallfight @ speeds about 100-150 mph. How that 6 tonnes beast is able to keep up with light bf.109 is unbeknownst to me :-)
How should I fight 'em?
The answer to the bolded part is "uber flapn's". According to what I just googled, the F4u stall speed at full flaps is about the same as the 109F, maybe a bit slower. Add that large rudder into the mix and when it gets slow, as was said, you have to work the fight UP.
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According to Mosq's Sustained Turn Lust 12-2012 rev3:
(at 25% fuel)
No Flaps:
Bf 109F radius 594ft, turn rate 20.4 DPS
F4U-1a radius 710ft, turn rate 18.1 DPS
Full Flaps
Bf 109F radius 449ft, turn rate 20.8 DPS
F4U-1a radius 427ft, turn rate 19.3 DPS
So don't play the flappin' game with he F4U. When the Corsair drops the wonderflaps, dont follow him there but (as already pointed out) point nose up. Let him bleed his E and keep yours. Use your climbing power:
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/components/com_ahplaneperf/genchart.php?p1=13&p2=89&pw=1>ype=2&gui=localhost&itemsel=GameData)
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Anyone know where we can see more of Mosq's turn stats? Is there a website?
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Anyone know where we can see more of Mosq's turn stats? Is there a website?
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,352166.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,352166.0.html)
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Actually the 109F, even in a stall fight with an F4U really isn't at much of a disadvantage. I'm very good in both aircraft. Slow speeds the F4U has the advanatage in a rolling scissors (darn thing was built for a rolling scissors). It's ability to bleed speed, and quick roll rate with it's huge rudder to assist, make it deadly in this realm. The 109F however will out flat turn it, it's turn radius is slightly bigger but it's turn rate is faster with both at WEP and full flaps. I'm not afraid to take an F4 slow against a 1a, even against some of my best VF-17 squaddies. Now saying that, what's the best way to deal with an F4U with a 109F. Stall fighting on the deck isn't the best idea, albeit you still are in the game by far. In most situations the F4U will come into a fight with more smash then a 109F, so the trick is to get it to commit to a turn fight, but don't fall into a rolling scissors trap by the F4U. If you can get the F4U to start using it's flaps and burning E. You can then start using your superior accelleration to build up enough speed to start working the verticle against him. F4U is not very good at acceleration so you use that against it. Once above it you can start using your superior turn rate to get your angle, and turn the fight into your B&Z fight. I could probably demonstrate this easily enough during one of my training sessions, if you would like to ride along on a Tuesday or Wednesday night (9central). I already got a rider for tonight though.
:salute
BigRat
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Actually the 109F, even in a stall fight with an F4U really isn't at much of a disadvantage. I'm very good in both aircraft. Slow speeds the F4U has the advanatage in a rolling scissors (darn thing was built for a rolling scissors). It's ability to bleed speed, and quick roll rate with it's huge rudder to assist, make it deadly in this realm. The 109F however will out flat turn it, it's turn radius is slightly bigger but it's turn rate is faster with both at WEP and full flaps. I'm not afraid to take an F4 slow against a 1a, even against some of my best VF-17 squaddies. Now saying that, what's the best way to deal with an F4U with a 109F. Stall fighting on the deck isn't the best idea, albeit you still are in the game by far. In most situations the F4U will come into a fight with more smash then a 109F, so the trick is to get it to commit to a turn fight, but don't fall into a rolling scissors trap by the F4U. If you can get the F4U to start using it's flaps and burning E. You can then start using your superior accelleration to build up enough speed to start working the verticle against him. F4U is not very good at acceleration so you use that against it. Once above it you can start using your superior turn rate to get your angle, and turn the fight into your B&Z fight. I could probably demonstrate this easily enough during one of my training sessions, if you would like to ride along on a Tuesday or Wednesday night (9central). I already got a rider for tonight though.
:salute
BigRat
So true...
When I was flying regularly, I often got complaints from 109 pilots that were frustrated that I was able to fairly easily out-fly them in the turn fight.
In several cases though, those sticks took me up on an invite to the TA where I could show them the tactics BR describes above. Generally within 30 minutes or so I could have them using the 109 effectively enough that I COULD NOT kill them, and they could make attack after attack on me with impunity. Now, whether they could actually seal the deal and hit me was a different question, but the fact is they could attack me and keep me pressured to the point where I could do nothing but dodge (and attempt to sucker them into slowing for a shot, where I could steal the advantage back).
If you're flying the 109, and having troubles with the F4U's just change your tactics up a bit (as BR described).
The 109 vs F4U tactic described is very similar to the tactics I use in the F4U vs A6M (but on a much smaller, "tighter" scale).
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F4U best dogfighter in the game IMO...great handles at most speed...only disadvantage is climb rate.
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Thanks for opinions everybody.
Now I see that my mistake is that I went stallfighting f4u. But I was afraid of his superior speed and that's why it is ended in stallfight. So, plain'ol'good left rising spiral will do the trick?
But I do not see yet how to turn slow and tight turning into BnZ.
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Thanks for opinions everybody.
Now I see that my mistake is that I went stallfighting f4u. But I was afraid of his superior speed and that's why it is ended in stallfight. So, plain'ol'good left rising spiral will do the trick?
But I do not see yet how to turn slow and tight turning into BnZ.
Hard to say what you did wrong without film. The 109 only has a small advantage in climb and acceleration. You still need to avoid getting shot as you work to get an energy advantage or shot position. Check your films and see if you're giving the F4U any free shots.
The size and weight of an aircraft are not performance factors, as long as the engine provides the required thrust. A bigger aircraft is an easier target but there's no reason it won't fly as well as a small aircraft. The F6F, F4U, and P-47 are all huge fighters that fly very well.
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Sometimes it may be necessary to fly through his gunsight. Be sure that for the instant that you are under his guns, you roll to present him only a profile, not your entire wing and horizontal stab. A 109 is a pretty small target when you only show him your side.
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Hard to say what you did wrong without film. The 109 only has a small advantage in climb and acceleration. You still need to avoid getting shot as you work to get an energy advantage or shot position. Check your films and see if you're giving the F4U any free shots.
The size and weight of an aircraft are not performance factors, as long as the engine provides the required thrust. A bigger aircraft is an easier target but there's no reason it won't fly as well as a small aircraft. The F6F, F4U, and P-47 are all huge fighters that fly very well.
The Bf 109F-4 actually has a pretty large advantage in climb over the F4U-1A. And as per HiTech, this indicates that the Bf 109F-4 also has a large advantage in acceleration. Its also important to remember that the Bf 109 has nearly double the WEP duration of the F4U.
Climbing left-hand turn should work quite nicely against an F4U-1
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PfD's point about the small profile is a very important technique all new players should be aware of, and taught by their trainers/squadmates. It's probably the most important thing to be aware of when on the defense in any plane - if it looks like your opponent is going to get a shot at you from some angle that isn't behind you, roll and put your wing right on him, or as close as possible, and continue putting G's on your plane to make your plane move through HIS site at a trajectory that is hard to hit. It isn't always easy to do depending on the situation, especially in a 2 or 3 vs you fight, but once you get the hang of it, it'll increase your survival by a huge margin.
Also, telling new players to use the climb power of the 109 is a bit vague IMO. Just putting the nose up and hitting WEP can make you an even easier target in may situations, it's critical to know when and where you can use your climb advantage vs another plane, and it's very dependent on your opponents current E state, direction of flight compared to yours, and of course his distance. An F4U sweeping in behind you when your nose is level, and at d500 or d700 or so, putting your nose up and hitting wep to climb will make you a very, very easy target, so just be aware of when you can and cannot get away with spiral climbing on your opponent. You almost have to wait until he is very low on energy or at a much lower E state than you, that or you need distance separation, before initiating a climb on him. That IMO is the real trick to using E fighting planes like the 109, knowing when you can actually use it against an opponent, and it will only come through practice, and a lot of failure, unless you get a really good trainer who puts you through some pretty good 1v1 examples. Watching your opponent, particularly the distance marker, and the + or - to tell if you're gaining E or losing E compared to him, will begin to tell you what his energy state is at. When you see it settled, or a + when he's behind your 3 to 9 line, you know you have an advantage - this is a good time to try and put your nose up with Wep on and try to force him into following you, something he can't match from the stats of the planes in this example. If you're patient, and keep the pressure on him this way, he'll be forced to either turn away, or will stall out trying to match you, or will simply start to fall further behind you as you can height and E on him, giving you the chance to turn things around.
There are some great 109 guys who can help you begin to figure it out, guys far better than I am at teaching and doing this, any of the Muppet or other L/W 109 squads have guys that will take you into the TA or DA and in even 30 mins, you can probably double your skills from getting some pointers and example fights.
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error,
I'l have a rider spot open with me tonight if you wish to ride along while I train. It almost always makes more sense to see it in person then try to picture it in your mind.
I'll be in the TA at 9 central.
:salute
BigRat
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Error, I would take him up on that if you`re available. You'll learn an awful lot, and also learn WHAT you need to learn as well.
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Also, telling new players to use the climb power of the 109 is a bit vague IMO. Just putting the nose up and hitting WEP can make you an even easier target in may situations, it's critical to know when and where you can use your climb advantage vs another plane, and it's very dependent on your opponents current E state, direction of flight compared to yours, and of course his distance.
Very true.
This film may help a bit? It's far from a "perfect" recipe for the task-at-hand, but it does go over some of the basic concepts and mistakes (the mistakes make the film more valuable, IMO). This is one of those sessions where a 109 pilot and I went to the DA so I could show him how to kill me.
It's kind of telling (I think, anyway) that he kills me eventually, but he does it after he runs out of fuel, lol. At that point though, he pretty much had me wrapped up and just dodging anyway. There wasn't really much else I could do (and I didn't even know he'd run out of fuel). He was in a position where he could keep enough pressure on me to keep me turning/dodging, at the same time forcing me to use WEP and gradually lower my altitude just to keep my speed up to a decent level for maneuvering.
It's a cat/mouse affair, but he's dictating the terms of the fight, and is no danger of getting shot. Me, on the other hand, all I can do is wait/hope he makes a mistake that allows me to escape or turn the tables.
I believe I also have film (or more) of him (and others) in the MA, where he fights me in more of a "normal" 109 vs. F4U manner, and dies fairly quickly as a result.
As you get better at the tactic, and learn the basic concepts of what allows you to control/dictate the fight, you'll of course see LOTS of opportunities to shorten the affair. Get greedy though, and you'll get to lift a new plane out of the hanger...
http://www.4shared.com/file/rv0v4Ssp/Ardy_lesson.html
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error,
I'l have a rider spot open with me tonight if you wish to ride along while I train. It almost always makes more sense to see it in person then try to picture it in your mind.
I'll be in the TA at 9 central.
Alas, I'm living in +10 hours time zone to CST. I just can't make it at this time no matter how much I'd like it. :(
Thank you very much for this offer.
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The problem is that no matter how I explain it to you it won't be as effective as if you just put some gaming hours in and challenge people to friendly 1v1's. IMO that is the best way to learn how to use climbing and turning tactics in a situation you can find somewhat in the MA.
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BTW, what is the place where one can get those nice plane performance graphs?
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BTW, what is the place where one can get those nice plane performance graphs?
http://www.gonzoville.com/charts/ (http://www.gonzoville.com/charts/) as well as game info>plane performance on the HTC website.
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BTW, what is the place where one can get those nice plane performance graphs?
When you are in the hanger you can right-click an aircraft for speed or climb charts. On the Aces High webpage you can see the same charts and compare two aircraft. http://www.hitechcreations.com/gameinfo/plane-performance
Note that the aircraft weight is listed. The information comes from the current game performance of the aircraft.
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A few years ago, I flew a series of duels against one of the game's better F4U drivers. I flew an F6F-5. The fights were pretty much a draw. Bored with that, I switched to a 109F-4.
The fights were no longer even. The 109 completely dominates the vertical. The other guy could do nothing, but bleed E and then have to evade. There is one thing to remember about 109s. Flaps out, nose high, WEP engaged.... It will not roll to the right. You either have to reduce power, or simply go left instead. If you don't, you'll hang there and lose any advantage.
More recently, I flew the same type of duel with another Corsair specialist. Avoid getting hit on the second merge, and the 109 will soon have the advantage. The F4U-1 series simply cannot hang with the 109F in the vertical. As opposed to this, years back I flew many duels with Urchin. He flew a Spit16 and I had an F4U-1D. Every fight, I was able to get guns on him first (tho not always kill shots). That's because you can bleed E much faster and beat the Spit on the first and second reversal. The problem that would arise was, if I didn't kill or badly damage the Spit early, Urchin would take the fight vertical and gain a significant advantage.
So, versus the F4U, fight your fight. Fight to the 109's strengths. Fight up hill, and be careful not to hang in space, nose high and flaps out. Keep the fight turning left whenever possible. Do these things and as mtnman pointed out, there is very little the F4U can do to counter. Just remember, that like any other fighter, you'll have to fly the 109F often to learn its behavior and capability.
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Thank you guys for precious input. The only thing now is to recall all this stuff when actually fighting.
:salute
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You just need to practice it so it becomes habit. Let me know when you want another session.
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A few years ago, I flew a series of duels against one of the game's better F4U drivers. I flew an F6F-5. The fights were pretty much a draw. Bored with that, I switched to a 109F-4.
The fights were no longer even. The 109 completely dominates the vertical. The other guy could do nothing, but bleed E and then have to evade. There is one thing to remember about 109s. Flaps out, nose high, WEP engaged.... It will not roll to the right. You either have to reduce power, or simply go left instead. If you don't, you'll hang there and lose any advantage
Good Morning WideWing,
I know you yourself are aware of the drawbacks of the bf109 series actually give up in turnrate/turnradius when turning/rolling right while at full throttle.... that if a player was to purposefully back of slightly on the throttle while turning toward the right, a player can actually improvve thier turnrate/turnradius. In doing so and applying this tip, a player flying the bf109f4 can amost maintain similar results they would normally achieve when maneuvering to the left...
This same tip works just as good and in the same manner when in or under the same circumstances when you might find yourself flying one of the F4U series planes in "ACES HIGH"
Hope this helps.
.«§»
TC
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I can still remember when Widewing taught me why not to flat turn full flaps with a 109F on the deck with a 1a hog. Lesson learned and stored on turn radius vs turn rate :aok
:salute
BigRat
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From what I understand from that BigRat, is that the F4U will eventually come around on the 109F4 if you end up on the deck near stall speed with flaps fully down, right? In this specific example, what would the best advice be to a 109 pilot then as an alternative to trying to chase down the F4U in this manner? If you don't get your shot by the time your airspeed is X, or flaps are down Y, do you go nose up and try and outclimb him at that point instead of continuing to turn and bleed E?
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GMan the F4u turns faster with 2 notches flaps than with full flaps. The turn is smaller with full flaps but not faster. If your turn is smaller but slower then you want to turn head on to the bandit.
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Good Morning WideWing,
I know you yourself are aware of the drawbacks of the bf109 series actually give up in turnrate/turnradius when turning/rolling right while at full throttle.... that if a player was to purposefully back of slightly on the throttle while turning toward the right, a player can actually improvve thier turnrate/turnradius. In doing so and applying this tip, a player flying the bf109f4 can amost maintain similar results they would normally achieve when maneuvering to the left...
This same tip works just as good and in the same manner when in or under the same circumstances when you might find yourself flying one of the F4U series planes in "ACES HIGH"
Hope this helps.
.«§»
TC
I have to question that theory TC. You are advising reducing torque vs maintaining full thrust against drag. You would increase roll rate to the right but rate and radius would logically degrade with a reduction in thrust. Cutting throttle is often useful but I don't see it benefiting turning unless you are above corner speed.
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From what I understand from that BigRat, is that the F4U will eventually come around on the 109F4 if you end up on the deck near stall speed with flaps fully down, right? In this specific example, what would the best advice be to a 109 pilot then as an alternative to trying to chase down the F4U in this manner? If you don't get your shot by the time your airspeed is X, or flaps are down Y, do you go nose up and try and outclimb him at that point instead of continuing to turn and bleed E?
"From what I understand from that BigRat, is that the F4U will eventually come around on the 109F4 if you end up on the deck near stall speed with flaps fully down, right? "
Sorry if I wasn't clear, it's actually the opposite, The F4U has a tighter turning circle then the 109F, but the 109F has a higher turn rate. In other words the 109F will eventaully get around on the F4U. Turn rate has to do with how many degrees an aircraft can get around a circle in a given amount of time. The F4U makes a smaller circle but it takes it longer to get around it.
One of the great advantages of the F4u is it's ability to get into it's flaps at 250mph and dump flaps quickly enough to get a very high initial turn rate. This is not a sustained turn rate, it's more like a burst of one, as the Speed is bled so quickly it cannot be sustained. Good F4u pilots take advantage of this by doing quick flap deploys to get that initial high turn rate to get nose on, and quickly pull the flaps back in to minimize drag and build E back up. This is to try and force your opponent defensive quickly at which point the F4U can fly lag persuit and maintain as much E as possible.
The 109F's job is to get the F4u tied up enough, that it can't go into conservation mode, and keep bleeding its E until the 109F's superior E building ability allows it to get on top of the fight.
It's hard to give an X then y scenario in this as every stick you come across will be different. One of the hardest things in this game to learn is patience, the longer the fight goes the more in favor it goes in the F, as long as the F can keep the Hog tied up enough that it can't build up a good head of steam.
If I fight Widewing for example 1a vs 109F, I know I have to have him on the defensive by the second merge, or I'm in big rouble in my F4u. After the third merge he'll be above me, and I'll be defensive. Even if I can keep up an outstanding defense to the point that we both end up in a flat turn on the deck, the 109F's higher turn rate will still give Widewing the advantage. So the Key is to get through the first two merges in the verticle, keeping the F4u on par or better, if he hasn't got an advantage by the second merge the fight is now in your favor. Now you just have to make sure you don't let the F4u get nose down in the fight to build up E. Use the F4u as your hard deck, and keep fighting in the verticle.
:salute
BigRat
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Great explanation, many thanks.
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wow....great reply from BigRat.
Good stuff.
I flew the Hawg a lot when I was more active and what BigRat says is true.
Best piece of advice I can give when you are fighting against a Corsair is...don't fight fast with it and don't fight slow with it. If it is fast, look for wingmen...if it i slow, stay fast.
Pound for pound probably the best all around fighter in the game.
My favourite killer by far.
RTR
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I have to question that theory TC. You are advising reducing torque vs maintaining full thrust against drag. You would increase roll rate to the right but rate and radius would logically degrade with a reduction in thrust. Cutting throttle is often useful but I don't see it benefiting turning unless you are above corner speed.
I guess any person would have to question it, FLS... I questioned it myself when Widewing posted about it way back..... but if one wanted to better their turn rate and radius in both the F4U series and the 109 series when /while turning to the right..... one will find they can actually gain ground by backing off the throttle oh so slightly..... I'm not talking reduce it to 75% or 80%, etc..... but more like from 100% to 95% or there abouts...... I suggest to do this though, only when you are in a slower speed dog fight.......... for instance 150 mph IAS or slower.....
hope that clears up my earlier post...... btw, the reason to back off is to counter the imassive torque the engine produces, barely bumping the throttle down helps both of these planes turn better to the right....
edit: FLS, you mentioned in your reply, that you did not see it being a benefit unless one was above cornerspeed........... above cornerspeed it wouldn't help as much as it would if one was slower or under cornerspeed........ the engines of prop driven aircraft produce the most torque and thrust right at Stall Speed....... so the slower you are in a fight, the more pronounced the feel of the engines torque when turning right in the F4U or Bf109 series......
hope this helps
<S>
TC
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TC I understand you're talking about the torque, which is mainly from the propwash. My comment about reducing throttle above corner speed was simply to reduce thrust to get to corner speed faster. At that point you'd want full power again.
Your point is that you can turn better with slightly less power at slow speeds. I agree that you can roll against torque better with less torque, and you roll to start the turn, but I don't see how that gives you a better steady state turn.
You're looking at the torque trying to roll the aircraft while turning and I'm looking at the thrust opposing drag. Reducing thrust slows you down. Turn rate and radius are determined by radial G and speed. Radial G comes from lift and speed from thrust. Lift is limited by speed. If you are reducing thrust then you are reducing speed. Reducing speed reduces lift. Now you have less speed and less radial G. How is the turn better?
Since thrust opposes drag you would have to reduce drag to maintain or increase the turn. So the question can be restated. How does slightly reducing the throttle reduce drag more than it reduces thrust?
Slowing down in a fight can be a good idea but unless you're trying to slow down I don't see a benefit in reducing power.
BTW the main reason torque is a bigger factor at low speeds is the reduction in roll damping, it's not because the torque is greater near the stall speed. The normal roll damping designed into an aircraft goes away at or near the stall.
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Radial G comes from lift and speed from thrust. Lift is limited by speed. If you are reducing thrust then you are reducing speed. Reducing speed reduces lift. Now you have less speed and less radial G. How is the turn better?
Very very very unimaginative & conventional thinking.
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Very very very unimaginative & conventional thinking.
How so? FLS is describing it correctly.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDZOezKnf0U&feature=player_detailpage#t=210
F4U vs 109F
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I'm looking for F4U films. I use to fly it a lot and have recently started flying it again. I started a thread, http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,357312.0.html but thought I would also add here that if anyone has films they want to donate post them here, or PM me and I'll send an address you can send them to.
Thanks.
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How so? FLS is describing it correctly.
He's describing a method of turning correctly.
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He's describing a method of turning correctly.
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Very enlightening, thanks serving as such a fount of information :rolleyes:.
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Very very very unimaginative & conventional thinking.
That's correct. It's basic forces on an aircraft.
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That's correct. It's basic forces on an aircraft.
Yes very basic.
Very enlightening, thanks serving as such a fount of information :rolleyes:.
For you this Christmas, cinders.
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Yes very basic.
Take it to the next level then. :lol
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Take it to the next level then. :lol
I do.
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I do.
That's a very helpful explanation. Thank you for your contribution to the Training forum.
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That's a very helpful explanation.
I'm not a trainer and I am not retained by HTC to confer my hard-earned understanding of ACM to whoever asks for it. I was commenting on the quality of your comment:
Cutting throttle is often useful but I don't see it benefiting turning unless you are above corner speed.
Infers that rate of turn is the only beneficial way to out-turn your opponent, which is incorrect or at the very best incomplete. You clearly know this from an earlier post of yours.
Thank you for your contribution to the Training forum.
So let me clarify your point about the Training Forum. Contending a point about ACM is not a contribution?
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So let me clarify your point about the Training Forum. Contending a point about ACM is not a contribution?
Not unless you explain why exactly you're contending the point.
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Not unless you explain why exactly you're contending the point.
Let FLS have an opportunity to respond to my second point.
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Sup Nrsh, having a bad day?
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Let FLS have an opportunity to respond to my second point.
You haven't made a point on topic. You took a statement out of context so you'd have something to criticize.
I won't waste any more time on you.
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You haven't made a point on topic. You took a statement out of context so you'd have something to criticize.
I won't waste any more time on you.
I counted to 10, and you're out.
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You haven't made a point on topic. You took a statement out of context so you'd have something to criticize.
How can this:
Cutting throttle is often useful but I don't see it benefiting turning unless you are above corner speed.
...be taken out of context? I criticized your statement because as a discourse on tuning it is incomplete and misleading to other players. Wasn't it clear that this was my point? It's not a personal but a professional issue. Although if you're curious yes I do incidentally think you are a tool.
Why? Because here as in other places you would rather put a stop to, or discourage, a potentially edifying and interesting discussion with your arrogant attitude & b/s moving goalpost tactics to protect your need to never be seen to be wrong or having anything less than a complete understanding. A discussion isn't desirable or even possible under these circumstances. Once again, I congratulate you :)
I won't waste any more time on you.
Splendid. I suggest other players don't waste any time reading your tragically confined approach to ACM as well.
Sup Nrsh, having a bad day?
Hi buddy. No not at all, having some nice days off. I always deal with these arrogant merchant bankers in this way now. Let's call it an adaptation. Merry Christmas to you. :cheers:
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Popcorn.
Back on topic, the 109F vs F4U is a pretty even fight, as long as the F4U cant dive away and run.
The 109 has a small disadvantage in the turn radius, but also some advantage in the turn rate and climbing performance. Also the 109 has some torque too.
-dont try the flat scissors against the F4U. It will end up with your death pretty quickly.
-dont try the classical rolling scissors against the F4U, especially when it is following a downhill path. You have a chance, but only when the F4U is heavy and/or youre clearly superior to the Corsair pilot.
-the 109's game is the overshooting in the vertical rolling scissors, using hammerheads, etc. Force it.
Have fun!
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Very very very unimaginative & conventional thinking.
FLS made some clear, logical and factually correct statements.
If you would like to share some more imaginative and non conventional thinking on this topic, that in any way refutes what FLS has said, please do, I for one would like to see it.
Badboy
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Im afraid, Shida is Zorro. And DozyDuck. And Roofi-oooh too. And what so ever. :uhoh
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Im afraid, Shida is Zorro. And DozyDuck. And Roofi-oooh too. And what so ever. :uhoh
Nah, I've fought both, I would know if he was Sorry or not.
Hi buddy. No not at all, having some nice days off. I always deal with these arrogant merchant bankers in this way now. Let's call it an adaptation. Merry Christmas to you. :cheers:
Copy that. <<S>> and merry Christmas to you and all else too.
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Nah, I've fought both, I would know if he was Sorry or not.
I know ;)