Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: DmonSlyr on December 17, 2013, 12:33:58 PM
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One thing I have noticed lately is that it is tough for players (beginners, intermediate) to learn new ACM and become better fighter pilots in a game that is tough as nails to learn. I will do my best to write out specific maneuvers and tips that can increase fighting performance and make for easier kills and more landing opportunities in any fighter plane.
1. Always avoid the HO
You always hear people talking about Head On shooting (HO). There are ways you can practically always avoid the HO. I haven't been shot from a HO in ages, and I definitely do not try to get kills by HO shooting either. Based on my experience you die 50% of the time or you get parts missing, oil leaks, ect, about 80% of the time. Also, believe it or not, avoiding the HO sets you up for a better tactic (typically emmil) to perform on the enemy plane who tried to HO you. The key is to nose down a bit and try to get to the left or right of them before you make the HO pass. It is really difficult to make a shot on a plane when you are below their nose, especially if you are to the right or left. As the person is trying to make the shot (generally turning a tad bit for the shot) pull up into an emmil (don't do this too early, it takes a bit of timing, normally pull up about 50-100 yards away so they cant follow you up. This gives you a giant head start on the emmil and you can typically loop much faster and get inside or use your E to stay above the enemy plane who goes for a HO shot.
2. The NOSE DOWN angle turn
So what do you do when you cant run away from enemy plane that is diving on you? There is a very basic maneuver that works almost every time, again it takes a lot of timing, like most things in this game. When the enemy is about 800-600 off your 6, flip your plane almost upside down and go in a downward angle to the left or right (heading back towards them, try to get under them as much as you can) use some rudder for help, cut throttle as well so you do not crash. Normally, if the plane is going really fast they will pull up and come back around for another attack, again do the nose down turn, DO NOT PULL UP in this situation. If you do the nose down turn too early, they enemy will be able to slow down and follow you. The point is to be able to get under their nose, if they follow you with all this speed they will be blacking out and will easily lose sight of you. Now, there is a very complex, advanced maneuver called a lag roll that can be preformed if the enemy plane follows you in the nose down turn. Cut throttle in the nose down turn, as they go for the shot, pull up, try to get flaps out, and do a stall barrel roll in the opposite direction, if they are going too fast, you can roll around right on their 6, or get in the famous rolling scissors. Judging their E you can tell whether to follow them in the climb or not. (lag roll is hard to explain).
3. Learn to do Emmilmans (loops) and not flat turns
The Emmilman is one of the most important ACMs. Generally, you will find yourself coming head-on towards a plane (ie, a HO). In the MA most people will try to make the HO shot, as I said earlier avoid that crap and you'll have the advantage. The Emmilman is the move you want to attempt while you are making the pass (like I said, attempt to get under their nose) about 50 yards out pull strait up and do a loop, If the player goes into a flat turn you can typically get inside of his turn by doing the loop, if you cannot get inside, you now have the E to pull back up and try again. Use your E and alt advantage to stall them out. The emmil allows you to fight using what they call angles instead of "out turning", as in at the top of the loop, you can use rudder, throttle, and flaps, to get inside of their turn for a shot. If the enemy plane attempts to Emmil you too, you will have the headstart, because they tried to go for the shot, work your way to try to get inside their loop as well. If they do the emmil and again go for the HO, it's a little tougher to make them miss, but you gotta try. Also, you doing the emmil first will allow you to SPLIT S before they can do one, so now you can pull back up avoid the HO shot (do another emmil). Flip back over, cut some throttle, use flaps if you have to to stay above them, and hammer stall for the kill. This is typically called Vert flying, and there is much more to learn, but these are the basics. Always check your surroundings, as sometime doing an emmil will be a nice easy kill shot for a picker.
4. Merging on fighters
Sometimes the hardest part in the MA is learning how to jump on people's 6 and not get picked. There are a couple of different tactics you can use to ensure you a kill while hopefully getting away.
Fighters - normally the BnZ method is the easiest way to gain people's 6. You start high, go fast in a dive, and shoot someone who is lower than you, pull back up or fly straight with speed and get away so other planes do not attack you. If you do this method, NEVER EVER EVER follow someone in the nose down turn as mentioned above. Pull back up, do an emmil and try again. Now, if you keep doing this you will lose E, so if you are in a position with a bunch of cons around, I wouldn't advise doing this more than 2 times or you will get picked. If you are sure to get the kill, cut the throttle attempt the shot, but watch out for the lag roll, people like me in my K4 love planes to follow me in the nose down turn.
Now if you are flying a plane that doesn't BnZ well (ki84, 109s, a6ms, ect), how do you get on a persons 6? The key is timing and attempting to be where you think they will be, pull into them as they fly by and try to get a quick d400 snap shot. Instead of flying right towards them, fly to where they are going to be. Also, and this is how I like to fly, let the enemy come to you. This takes much practice and experience to judge E, but when a person is attacking you, your goal is to get them to lose all of their E, planes that don't BnZ well generally turn better. You can make them over shoot by lag roll and get in a rolling scissors, they will lose E and atl advantage and you can gain their 6 and make the kill.
Look for planes that are going up. A lot of BnZers will dive and then go back up to regain alt. If you are at 8k and you see a plane that is diving on a friendly, keep your alt and fly to where you think he will go. A plane that is going up is the easiest target. So if you are 8k in a ki84 and you see a typhoon dive down, chances are he is going to attempt to regain alt. This is where you catch him, once he gains alt or is climbing up he will be nice and slow for you to make the attack.
Bombers- Attack from the front if you can, also attack from the sides, and attempt to be higher than them. NEVER attack from the rear or sometimes underneath, If you attack from underneath, make sure u are directly under them before you pull up. You had better turn off quick because the rear gunners are gonna be firing.
5. ALWAYS CHECK YOUR SURROUNDINGS every 4 seconds. Im serious!
Hope this helps a little bit. If you have any questions PM me or feel free to hit me up in the MA!
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(lag roll is hard to explain).
It helps to visualize the maneuver. It's also referred to as the "Barrel Roll Attack".
(http://navyflightmanuals.tpub.com/P-1222/P-12220029im.jpg)
ack-ack
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Nice write up! I especially like #1 and #4 because they're so true! If you die in a HO shot you have no one to blame but yourself. We are not kidding when we say the HO shot is the easiest shot to avoid in all of aerial combat! I hate hearing people complain on range and 200 about "He HO'd me, what a dweeb." because I can tell that they just flew straight into the bad guys guns and expected him NOT to shoot. I facepalm every time I hear someone complain about HO shots.
SA is so easy yet so hard to accomplish. All it takes is one quick look around the sky, maybe less than 1 second, to see if there are bad guys around. Yet, it becomes more difficult as numbers increase. Get in the habit of always looking around even in friendly territory!
:salute :aok
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Nice write up! I especially like #1 and #4 because they're so true! If you die in a HO shot you have no one to blame but yourself. We are not kidding when we say the HO shot is the easiest shot to avoid in all of aerial combat! I hate hearing people complain on range and 200 about "He HO'd me, what a dweeb." because I can tell that they just flew straight into the bad guys guns and expected him NOT to shoot. I facepalm every time I hear someone complain about HO shots.
SA is so easy yet so hard to accomplish. All it takes is one quick look around the sky, maybe less than 1 second, to see if there are bad guys around. Yet, it becomes more difficult as numbers increase. Get in the habit of always looking around even in friendly territory!
:salute :aok
Lol well I can't count very well so technically that's 5.. hahahahaha I did edit to fix it though. I know I would/will have grammar issues.
Thx though btw latrobe :rock :salute :)
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Nice write up
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Nice write up, it would be real nice if write ups and tips could be readable in game while sitting in the officers club maybe some kind of tab to click and tips and techniques window opens. Lots of new players don't have forum accounts so they wont see the tips and techniques offered in the forums, in game they would have access.
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Fantastic, you should now expand on this and keep it up. The one thing I like best about the BBS is the Help and Training threads regarding a2a ACM skills and discussions about it from experienced guys. Mace2004, BigRat, Joe a Cheem, Latrobee, Ack Ack, Widewing, and now the OP, and many others I'm missing do a lot for this game by taking the time to explain and discuss flying and fighting tactics. No matter how much you know, there is always more to learn, which is what keeps me sticking around to be honest. This was a great little write up on the topics covered IMO. I could read this stuff for hours, it's the most fascinating part of the game, and the fact that we can not only talk about these tactics and maneuvers, but put them into practice in game accurately goes to show that no matter how many complaints are thrown at HTC about this and that with flight models and such, it shows what a brilliant job they've done in creating this sim.
This will likely get moved to the Help and Training forum, and I think there should be some kind of notation in the game or clipboard for new players to direct them there for help from the community once they've gotten past the basics. ##edit##- 68zoom, great minds think alike, you posted that while I was typing this.
5. ALWAYS CHECK YOUR SURROUNDINGS every 4 seconds. Im serious!
This IMO is the key to beginning to get good situational awareness for a new player. If you can teach a new pilot that they should be wearing out their stick hat or keypad, it's a good start. Even when you're closing on a target's six, so long as you actually aren't firing, quick 1/4 second looks by pressing that hat backwards will save you many, many times from getting shot, since one of the easiest ways to kill someone is when they are fixated on a target that isn't you. This is my trouble personally with Track IR so far, is that after 15 years of using my thumb to constantly look around, especially once engaged in a fight, it's a little slower for me as I'm still on the learning curve - I can sense it'll be even faster than the thumb once I get more accustomed to it, but the point is still that this "number 5" point from the OP is probably the easiest one to convey to a new pilot who is a little bamboozled about the ACM moves and terminology. It's very easy to teach "just look around, especially behind you" every 4 or 5 seconds - don't stare, just a quick 1/4 or 1/2 second look to the rear and both sides, focusing on seeing "red". If "red" is seen, take a close look at the range and the +/- indicator to judge how big of a threat they are.
Again, well done, all I can say is - More.
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nice work, thanks.
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nice write up :aok
ill add
time your maneuvers while you are below the bandits nose, where they don't see, they will expect you to come up at a certain spot and you will surprise them by not being there....
when you are merging with the con...if his plane is angled with his left wing down, fly to his right....and vice versa...he has to get out of phase to get to you...if you just fly to the side his wing is dipped it is much easier for him to get in line with you.
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It's "Immelmann".....just sayin
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Method 2: Make Aces High a drinking game.
This can be done with the alcoholic beverage of your choice (though I recommend beer since wine-coolers are sissified and straight hard liquor generally makes for shorter play). [Maybe Scotch on the side if you know how to start out 'Beer before liquor - never sicker.']
Disclaimer: AHII is a family game, anyone playing it who is under the legal drinking age may practice this other game with their choice of non-alcoholic beverage then graduate to alcoholism upon reaching the legal age in their state of residence.
1. Shoot someone down - drink.
2. Get shot down - drink.
3. In the tower (for any reason) - drink.
4. Observe graphics for later criticism/promotion on the forum - drink.
5. Forget to raise gear after take-off and have to be reminded to raise it by another player - drink.
6. Fly inverted for longer than real planes in WWII could (consensus deviation 10 seconds to a couple of minutes) - drink.
7. Auger in a dogfight - drink.
8. Auger when not in a dogfight - drink drink.
9. Spouse/family/room-mate/visiting friend ack - drink.
10. Structural failure due to high-speed or over-stress - drink.
11. Tried a new move (still died) - drink.
12. Tried a new move (then died shortly later from staring dumb-founded at screen too long) - drink.
13. Flying a buff (just drink the entire time).
14. Same for manning guns on a cruiser/flat-top/destroyer/manning a shore battery/gunning a buff for a friend, basically anything but playing a fighter 'jock.'
15. Get vulched - drink.
16. Get HOed - drink.
17. The vulch was a HO - down it.
18. Ack! Poof! - drink.
19. Hmmmm .... my wingie has kind of a sexy voice - drink.
20. Hey guys - watch this! - drink.
(Apologies to Violatr - won't interrupt again. I'll just drink.) ;)
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I like the 200 drinking game. Every time someone complains on 200 you take a drink! :D :cheers:
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I like the 200 drinking game. Every time someone complains on 200 you take a drink! :D :cheers:
I'd be rather dry. I just don't do 200. :)
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It's "Immelmann".....just sayin
Hahahah that is hilarious! My spelling is horrendous!!!!
Yes gman I will try to add more after work!
Thanks for the comments everyone! :salute
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Having played a few years ago and spent time trying to learn this stuff.. (I was never good at fighting, and couldn't get most of this into my thick skull), I have to say that this is one of the best explanations I've read so far. When things get complicated, I tend to sort of blank, so thanks for making it easy to read! Gives me things to practice once I get back in the air.
<S>
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To add.
There are more throttle settings then full power with wep and full low power
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Funny Stuff Arlo :lol
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Hah Arlo you goofball.
Every time someone complains on 200 you take a drink!
Good god, that game would have me hugging the spinning floor, crying and puking in less than 30 minutes.
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To add.
There are more throttle settings then full power with wep and full low power
this,this and this...... prolly the most overlooked aspect of ACM
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I actually hope this doesn't get moved to training and help because I think more people will see it here.
What dred and ink said too is true!
I think throttle work takes a lot of experience and practice. But it is so important to use to be able to get inside other planes and make shot. Especially at the top of a immelmann and during the rolling scissors.
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Thanks Violator.
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Too add.
Spiral rope climb
Generally, we all fall prey to a nice a "rope a dope" which is basically a plane that has more E than you who gets you to follow him/her up vertical until you run out of speed and stall out, then he/she hammer stalls, flips over, and shoots you frozen in the sky unable to move. This is a great move and takes a lot of practice to perfect (judging E and being just far enough away for them to miss). Many times this can also be a nice set up as well for a squadie to help clear your 6. The only problem with a straight up vertical rope is that you also become easier to pick. There is a better way, although it takes more practice and is a bit harder to time. The spiral rope climb is one of my favorite moves to do in the game.
The spiral rope climb much like the vertical rope climb is a way to get the enemy to seemingly float in the air (out of E) as you roll over and make the shot. What makes the spiral better than the vertical is that you have the ability to hold your E better by simply rolling over rather than doing a 0 E hammerhead stall. Also if you so happen to see an enemy plane diving on you, you can easily go into the nose down turn, rather than be stuck in the air going straight up. The move takes a lot of timing and E control but if you work it correctly you can generally get most planes to follow you. The key is being able to convince them that they can make a shot on you ( though they miss every time because it is a tough shot to make). While they are losing all their E trying to spiral climb with you they are also losing more E than you because they are trying to lead you for the shot.
How to perform one. First you have to judge a persons E, any plane that is screaming with speed is probably gonna climb right up with you and make the shot. You typically want a plane that is going about 50mph or less to engage you. So you have a bit of E and you see someone d800-1000 who is slowly falling further back it works a lot better if they are below you too. You can pull up in and angle (spiral) right or left ( do not go nose head on, but you can nose down before you merge to get a bit of extra E) and try to get him to make a nose up sideways angle lead shot on you ( you want them to go for the shot), you need to be about 400,600 ( but closer is better) away so he doesn't actually get you. If he pulls into you and goes for the shot, He will be pulling up more vertical than you trying for lead shot, keep spiraling around going up and try to squeeze a tad more in the spiral as you go up (ie, the spiral you do gets tighter and tighter to get them to go more vertical and make the lead shot even harder to make. If you do it right, he wont be able to make the lead or have a shot anymore after the 3rd/4th spiral. You continue to spiral around (in the same direction) Judge yours and their E so you know when you need to make spiral tighter. For example If the enemy is a 190A-5 the tighter you make the spiral the more and more he will stall considerably pulling up and turning. You will see him lose all E straight vertical (while you are still in spiral climb). You can use flaps too if you need the extra lift to hold on a bit longer. Once he is frozen, all you have to do is roll over, use some rudder, and stall handling and make the shot for the easy kill or to gain their 6. It's a great move to catch people on, because at first they think they can get the shot, but it is a trap and once they fall for it it is very difficult to get out because you having more E and can roll right around on them at any time. I would not advise performing this move on a ki43, spit16, or even a ki84 because they have a great vert characteristics.
The spiral Dive
So if you are flying a Ki84 at 10k (which is the max alt you should ever fly it) and you want to dive down on an enemy who is 2k how do you do this without your controls freezing? The spiral dive also works great for Jabo over an enemy base as well. It is very simple but incredibly important for setting up attacks in planes that do not dive well. The key is to try and get right over the top of an enemy plane. So say you are 10k and they are 2k. Instead of diving diagonal, get right over the top of them and do a downward spiral cork screw, u will generally need to cut some throttle as well (especially in a ki84). Many players are checking their 6 and not their "look up" view they expect the diagonal dive attack. So if you spiral dive right on top of them, they may not even see you (till it's too late). The spiral climb will keep you slow enough so you don't lawn dart while also giving you enough speed to go for a rope or to get away. It helps with Jabo tremendously to get a precise drop on a target. Also, it allows you to choose other targets, so say you are spiral diving on the 2k plane and you see another plane (going in the opposite direction) that you would rather attack (who is lower than you) then you can easily change your targets. If you are diagonally diving on a enemy, you cant very easily make a quick change and dive on someone else going in the opposite direction. Once you get about 2k above them, you can then go break the spiral and do a straight dive on the target.
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One thing I have noticed lately is that it is tough for players (beginners, intermediate) to learn new ACM and become better fighter pilots in a game that is tough as nails to learn. I will do my best to write out specific maneuvers and tips that can increase fighting performance and make for easier kills and more landing opportunities in any fighter plane.
1. Always avoid the HO
You always hear people talking about Head On shooting (HO). There are ways you can practically always avoid the HO. I haven't been shot from a HO in ages, and I definitely do not try to get kills by HO shooting either. Based on my experience you die 50% of the time or you get parts missing, oil leaks, ect, about 80% of the time. Also, believe it or not, avoiding the HO sets you up for a better tactic (typically emmil) to perform on the enemy plane who tried to HO you.
3. Learn to do Emmilmans (loops) and not flat turns
I got to ask, just what is an emmil or a Emmilmans, are you trying to say "Immelmann" is that what you mean?
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I got to ask, just what is an emmil or a Emmilmans, are you trying to say "Immelmann" is that what you mean?
Yes haha!!! I meant immulmann, for some gosh darn reason I thought it started with an E. I even looked on google for emmulman but got no search results so I just went with it. :bhead
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think people should stop posting with "great thread" or something like that or pretty sure it's gonna be a drag to go thru 20 pages of nothing but "good write up". with only 4 or 5 postings that should be read. which will defeat the purpose of this thread.
semp
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think people should stop posting with "great thread" or something like that or pretty sure it's gonna be a drag to go thru 20 pages of nothing but "good write up". with only 4 or 5 postings that should be read. which will defeat the purpose of this thread.
semp
Great suggestion Sempster! :aok
Oh....great thread BTW!
:D
:bolt:
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the only thing wrong in this is the 10K limit for the KI84....
she will work fine all the way up, once you get past 20 K just takes more throttle work....the true speed is much higher up there so it needs to be paid attention to a lot more then 10K....
I had someone who thought the 47 was a match for the ki84 we went to the DA and fought at all ALTS up to 25K and the ki ate up that 47 at all alts...it just took a little bit longer once we got up over 20K...by a little bit I mean 1 or 2 merges....
everything else is dead on.....the KI84 loves the vert and the spiral rope is one of my favorites :t
also wanna add if you are climbing in the Ki84 and stall out and start to float backwards...there is only one thing that will get you out of it....kill the engine.
also seeings how so many people in the MA HO like its a give away...if you get sick of it and are in the KI84 HO them right back...most think the KI because it is Japanese, is weak like the zeros and 43.....that is far from the truth...the Ki84 is one of the toughest ships in the hanger and can easily handle a few 20 mm....especially against spits which are fragile compared....now dont be HOing a mossie or a 38...or another HO machine(they are easy to avoid and planes like those dont stand a chance in a TnB fight so avoid the HO from those)....but don't be afraid of the KI84 being fragile it is the opposite of that.
:salute
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To add.
There are more throttle settings then full power with wep and full low power
This single thing more than anything else has helped me to improve (somewhat). I also improved when I started to use flaps at the top of loops and when I learned to stop pulling on the stick when turning flaps out. I just let the flaps tighten the turns by themselves and lower more flaps as speed decreases. It's amazing how not pulling but relying on the flaps improves stability in tight turns. I learned that from one of the trainers on this board.
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Could someone maybe explain situations in which one might use flaps and when not to? I'm learning more from this one thread than I did actually trying to fly...
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I like to use flaps in my 109s when I'm in a nose up position during a slow turning fight. The powerful engine along with the flaps allows you to get above your opponent and then you can use the engine torque to roll over the top and drop onto their six.
Not every plane is a good flap fighter. I know the spits become rather unstable when using flaps at low speeds and tend to go into flat spins. It takes a skilled hand to control a spit with flaps whereas something like a 109 is more difficult to put into an uncontrolled stall.
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flaps are good for giving that extra bit of climb at the top of a rope also helping getting over the top of that vert climb....or when you are on the verge of a stall in a tight turn fight, they give more stability....otherwise leave them in.
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Learn how to make coordinated turns, keep your eye on the ball and don't let the rate of climb indicator drop into the negative when doing flat turns. Besides not having a wingman, that is one of the most common mistakes I see people make in a turn fight. Giving up their alt and widening their turning circle because they're actually in a shallow spiral dive. I guess because they're thinking if they go faster they'll turn tighter.
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I know the spits become rather unstable when using flaps at low speeds and tend to go into flat spins. It takes a skilled hand to control a spit with flaps whereas something like a 109 is more difficult to put into an uncontrolled stall.
Bro, where do you live? The spit is super-easy.
The real art is, to look like you were in an uncontrolled stall while fully controlling it and shooting the enemies butt while looking good.
If something, learning this might make me to come back once.
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Bro, where do you live? The spit is super-easy.
The real art is, to look like you were in an uncontrolled stall while fully controlling it and shooting the enemies butt while looking good.
If something, learning this might make me to come back once.
Whenever I used flaps in a spit and start going up hill the plane tends to want to put itself in a flat spin. I had to be very careful when using flaps in a spit because of that... though I haven't flown a spitfire in years so maybe that's been changed? :)
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Learn how to make coordinated turns, keep your eye on the ball and don't let the rate of climb indicator drop into the negative when doing flat turns. Besides not having a wingman, that is one of the most common mistakes I see people make in a turn fight. Giving up their alt and widening their turning circle because they're actually in a shallow spiral dive. I guess because they're thinking if they go faster they'll turn tighter.
Some planes actually do turn better in a nose low turns, P-38 is an example, since basically you're rolling into the turn but run the risk of over speeding and over shooting the bandit if you don't control your speed.
ack-ack
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Whenever I used flaps in a spit and start going up hill the plane tends to want to put itself in a flat spin. I had to be very careful when using flaps in a spit because of that... though I haven't flown a spitfire in years so maybe that's been changed? :)
Got what you are referring to, felt that a couple times. Maybe its in connection with the CoG. The Spits are still super-easy to fly ;)
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Bro, where do you live? The spit is super-easy.
The real art is, to look like you were in an uncontrolled stall while fully controlling it and shooting the enemies butt while looking good.
If something, learning this might make me to come back once.
That's because flying the 109 it likes the jerkiness and whip stall (if you know what I mean), where as the spit with flaps down in a slow roll will flat spin if you try the same technique. I hear ya on that trobe. The f4u does the same thing if ur not careful but not as easy as the spit.
Edit: quoted wrong passage
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I'm not good at explain things....but a lot of guys are getting the "be lower then your opponent" on the merge confused. Some think it's all about E, but its really more about angles; they will merge too late causing them to be killed very quickly before they reach the top of their merge.
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Learn how to make coordinated turns, keep your eye on the ball and don't let the rate of climb indicator drop into the negative when doing flat turns. Besides not having a wingman, that is one of the most common mistakes I see people make in a turn fight. Giving up their alt and widening their turning circle because they're actually in a shallow spiral dive. I guess because they're thinking if they go faster they'll turn tighter.
It's a little more complicated than that as it's totally dependent on your starting airspeed and Corner velocity. Corner gives you your best possible turn rate and smallest turn radius so that's what you're aiming for. If you're significantly above your corner velocity you will improve your turn rate by a nose-high turn (nose above the horizon) to allow you to decelerate to Corner at the same time you're trading your speed for a bit of altitude. Once you near Corner then overbank slightly to bring your nose down just a bit below the horizon and trade some altitude to sustain your turn rate at Corner plus, since there's a vertical component to your turn, you can reduce your turn radius even more than a flat turn at Corner. This is known as a "wing over." If your starting speed is below Corner then make the entire turn slightly nose-low (nose below the horizon) to trade a bit of altitude to sustain what turn rate you have and gain a bit of speed to come closer to Corner. How much "nose-high" or "nose-low" you go depends on how far away from Corner you are (and it takes a bit of experimentation and practice in your chosen ride.) If your Corner is 225mph and you're going 400 then bring your nose well above the horizon, even to the point of doing an oblique pitchback. If your starting speed is 200 then use only a slightly nose-low turn (5 to 10 degrees). The slower you are the more nose-low you need to turn (a slice). If your speed is significantly below Corner, say you're climbing out at 150 when you get attacked, your best option is probably closer to a split S. As in the nose high turns, you have a vertical component to nose-low turns but it works against you. A nose-low turn at corner will still give you your best turn rate but your radius will begin to increase as you're working against G so, generally speaking, you need to be judicious in nose-low turns to prevent your radius from getting out of hand. You can control for this just like the nose-high turns by starting very nose-low and then rolling to bring your nose up a bit once you reach corner changing your turn into more of a low yo-yo.
In summary, use nose-high and nose-low turns (and combinations of them) to maintain your speed as close to corner as you can be.
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flaps are good for giving that extra bit of climb at the top of a rope also helping getting over the top of that vert climb....or when you are on the verge of a stall in a tight turn fight, they give more stability....otherwise leave them in.
Yep. :aok Also kick them when I think it will give me that last inch of lead needed to take a shot, but only for very short periods of time.
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It's a little more complicated than that as it's totally dependent on your starting airspeed and Corner velocity. Corner gives you your best possible turn rate and smallest turn radius so that's what you're aiming for. If you're significantly above your corner velocity you will improve your turn rate by a nose-high turn (nose above the horizon) to allow you to decelerate to Corner at the same time you're trading your speed for a bit of altitude. Once you near Corner then overbank slightly to bring your nose down just a bit below the horizon and trade some altitude to sustain your turn rate at Corner plus, since there's a vertical component to your turn, you can reduce your turn radius even more than a flat turn at Corner. This is known as a "wing over." If your starting speed is below Corner then make the entire turn slightly nose-low (nose below the horizon) to trade a bit of altitude to sustain what turn rate you have and gain a bit of speed to come closer to Corner. How much "nose-high" or "nose-low" you go depends on how far away from Corner you are (and it takes a bit of experimentation and practice in your chosen ride.) If your Corner is 225mph and you're going 400 then bring your nose well above the horizon, even to the point of doing an oblique pitchback. If your starting speed is 200 then use only a slightly nose-low turn (5 to 10 degrees). The slower you are the more nose-low you need to turn (a slice). If your speed is significantly below Corner, say you're climbing out at 150 when you get attacked, your best option is probably closer to a split S. As in the nose high turns, you have a vertical component to nose-low turns but it works against you. A nose-low turn at corner will still give you your best turn rate but your radius will begin to increase as you're working against G so, generally speaking, you need to be judicious in nose-low turns to prevent your radius from getting out of hand. You can control for this just like the nose-high turns by starting very nose-low and then rolling to bring your nose up a bit once you reach corner changing your turn into more of a low yo-yo.
In summary, use nose-high and nose-low turns (and combinations of them) to maintain your speed as close to corner as you can be.
Thank you Mace,I've been trying to teach this for quite awhile now! I find most new players tend to turn nose down to maintain speed and then wonder why they get beat.
:salute
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Don't worry about corner velocity kids, just try not to get lower than the guy trying to out flat turn you. At that point in the fight you're both going to be going well below corner velocity.
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Thank you Mace,I've been trying to teach this for quite awhile now! I find most new players tend to turn nose down to maintain speed and then wonder why they get beat.
:salute
That's pretty much what I said in my post.
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Don't worry about corner velocity kids, just try not to get lower than the guy trying to out flat turn you. At that point in the fight you're both going to be going well below corner velocity.
sometimes though if I feel like I have just a tad more E than them, I will go nose down a bit in a angle turn and try to do a immelmann loop to get an angle. This can end in a catastrophic flat spin death or a nice angle shot. Sometimes you gotta do it more than once.
Sometimes planes that you know are better in the flat turn, will have a hard time dealing with a plane that uses the vert technique. Such as a ki84 vs a brewster. Or a 109 vs a spit
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When I first saw this thread I thought it was titled "Tips and tricks for better performance."
I've since gotten over the crushing disappointment....
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When I first saw this thread I thought it was titled "Tips and tricks for better performance."
I've since gotten over the crushing disappointment....
:rofl :aok
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It takes a skilled hand to control a spit with flaps whereas something like a 109 is more difficult to put into an uncontrolled stall.
QFT ! :salute
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That's pretty much what I said in my post.
I;m not sure why you quoted me because it isnt anything close to what you said.
Then you go on to say not to worry about corner speed,which again has little or nothing to do with what I said.
I was thanking Mace for his excellent writeup and discription and throwing out how most new players turn nose down and or flat, both of which are energy depeleting moves. Violator rightly stated that he tries to offset the enemy at the merge,either vertically or horizontally or some of both,then goes into a lead turn to get and angle advantage,again something I agree with.
I try to show player how to fly for position,gain the high ground and force the enemy to burn his energy. I think once you gain position the shot will come,too many new players only know how to fly their gunsight and this is why you see so many John Wayne merges. One of the best sticks in this game taught me long ago,angles then E,Morf,angles then E,using an offset at the merge allows you to gain the angles then you need to manage your "E". Sometimes just doing a luftberry turn above the enemy is managing your "E" as you dont give up alt to gain a position in the enemies rear hemisphere!
YMMV.
:salute
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Seriously?
don't let the rate of climb indicator drop into the negative when doing flat turns. Besides not having a wingman, that is one of the most common mistakes I see people make in a turn fight. Giving up their alt and widening their turning circle because they're actually in a shallow spiral dive. I guess because they're thinking if they go faster they'll turn tighter.
I find most new players tend to turn nose down to maintain speed and then wonder why they get beat.
See? We're both talking about players turning nose down.
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I try to show player how to fly for position,gain the high ground and force the enemy to burn his energy. I think once you gain position the shot will come,too many new players only know how to fly their gunsight and this is why you see so many John Wayne merges.
Yeah this is good right here. This goes right along with the spiral rope climb as well. Also, when both players seemingly know how to do emmils, learning to concentrate E so you can keep the higher ground is essential. The double Emmilmann works great for this. If both players have skill and knowledge the fight generally will turn into a rolling scissors type fight. In this case, keeping enough E is critical for higher loops, if the other player does not have the E to make the roll, he is in a tight spot. Once the other player cant loop as well, this is the opportunity to do a high(er) loop, almost hammerhead stall to get a good shot coming down on them.
Edit: also at the top of this loop is when you cut a bit of throttle, use flaps, and a ton of rudder/aileron to get around on them quicker.
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Method 2: Make Aces High a drinking game.
This can be done with the alcoholic beverage of your choice (though I recommend beer since wine-coolers are sissified and straight hard liquor generally makes for shorter play). [Maybe Scotch on the side if you know how to start out 'Beer before liquor - never sicker.']
Disclaimer: AHII is a family game, anyone playing it who is under the legal drinking age may practice this other game with their choice of non-alcoholic beverage then graduate to alcoholism upon reaching the legal age in their state of residence.
1. Shoot someone down - drink.
2. Get shot down - drink.
3. In the tower (for any reason) - drink.
4. Observe graphics for later criticism/promotion on the forum - drink.
5. Forget to raise gear after take-off and have to be reminded to raise it by another player - drink.
6. Fly inverted for longer than real planes in WWII could (consensus deviation 10 seconds to a couple of minutes) - drink.
7. Auger in a dogfight - drink.
8. Auger when not in a dogfight - drink drink.
9. Spouse/family/room-mate/visiting friend ack - drink.
10. Structural failure due to high-speed or over-stress - drink.
11. Tried a new move (still died) - drink.
12. Tried a new move (then died shortly later from staring dumb-founded at screen too long) - drink.
13. Flying a buff (just drink the entire time).
14. Same for manning guns on a cruiser/flat-top/destroyer/manning a shore battery/gunning a buff for a friend, basically anything but playing a fighter 'jock.'
15. Get vulched - drink.
16. Get HOed - drink.
17. The vulch was a HO - down it.
18. Ack! Poof! - drink.
19. Hmmmm .... my wingie has kind of a sexy voice - drink.
20. Hey guys - watch this! - drink.
(Apologies to Violatr - won't interrupt again. I'll just drink.) ;)
2,5,7,8,10.....I'd be falling outta my chair in 5 minutes! :aok
Zaphod